Espejos de Aztlán; Fundraiser for Nicaragua and Interview with Josefina Saldaña

¿Cómo era la más bonita, Rosita lo desairó, Rosita lo desairó, Rosita no me desayés, la gente lo va a notar, busqué digan lo que quieran, contigo no he de bailar, contigo no he de bailar, he hecho mano a la cintura y la ha visto la sacó, y a la pobre de Rosita no más tres tiros le dio, Rosita ya está en el cielo, dandole cuenta al creador, y polito está en la cárcel dando su declaración,

sí, uno de las favoritas, hay tiempo por una más, a ver, me voy a tratar de recordar el tiempo, a ver para mi querido en la casa, ¡Hola Chui! Vengo el pelo completamente blanco, pero voy a sacar juventud de mi pasado, y te voy a enseñar a querer, como tú no has querido,

y a verás lo que vas a prender, cuando vivas con tú, te dislabio, te abrotando sangre, y de rota la tengo sepultada, en tus grasos hoy me entregó como en nadie, porque sé que mi amor sin tu amor no vale nada, y te voy a enseñar a querer,

porque tú no has querido, y a verás lo que vas a prender, cuando vivas conmigo. Muchas gracias, compañera Lenore Armijo, también queremos agradecerle mucho a los escritores que estuvieron con nosotros, compartiendo sus versos, el compañero Ferro Brody, Juanita Sanchez y Holly Wilson, la amiga Lenore Armijo estará con nosotros, este viernes, y los invitamos a todos ustedes que no se apoyen en este esfuerzo para una causa muy justa,

estamos hablando de asegurar que continúe existiendo ni caragua como una nación soberana e independiente. Este evento se efecturá el viernes a la 730 p.m, en el Quakers Meeting House, 1600, 5th Street, Northwest. Ahí van a poder escuchar más a Lenore Armijo, también a Ferro, Juanita y Holly. Muchas gracias también a los compañeros a Raquel y José, por ayudarnos aquí con todos los 1500 botones que tiene esta máquina. Para espejos de eslandio, soy Cecilio García Camarillo, invitándolos a que estén nuevamente con nosotros el siguiente lunes, como quedó las 8 p.m. para seguir platicando y compartiendo información. Muy buenas noches. Espejos de eslandio.

Un oficial oficial informe a tu albuquerque, para saber sobre los trabajos de la agencia, los secretos de la CIA, Villanámico de Nicaragua.

John Stuckwell, fue en CIA Station Chief in Africa, Commander of the Angola Task Force, officer in charge of Thai named province, en Villanámico, y un recipiente de CIA, Medal of Merid. En la Universidad de New Mexico. Muy bienvenidos a su programa espejos de esland, precisamente ahora me encuentro en el valle del sur, visitando con una compañera que visita desde la redoteja, la amiga José Fina Saldánea, visita nuestra ciudad de albuquerque con el propósito de hacer unas presentaciones, sobre su visita a la Nación Centroamericana de Nicaragua.

Mezquez Fina Saldánea es originalmente de la redoteja, y fue en Nicaragua de 1984 a 1986, luego después de debilitar전�ia el Instituto de funniest, Centroamericano de Nicaragua de Nicaragua, cuando es el actor hunter y planeadas de él. Sí. Eso es muy bien. Está aquí en Manawa. Y yo estoy seguro que hay mucha información para compartirlo con nosotros. Gracias por aceptar la invitación para ser parte de los espejos. Bueno, es una sorpresa para estar aquí. Y quiero compartir mis palabras y reflexiones. ¿Dónde me gusta mucho?

¿Dónde me gusta mucho? Es posible. Porque si tú no me gusta, cuando tú lo hiciste en Nicaragua, es una idea de lo que el país fue como. Y yo estoy listo durante el año, el periodo, si algunos de tus ideas originales se han modificado porque de la actual contacto con el país y de la realidad con las personas. Bueno, creo que me ha estado en el país con una idea idealista de lo que el proceso revolucionario podría ser. Y devant del tiempo ahí, dereces y las utilidades de la realidad que el país mudió al mundo. прыngues de teneradas en feliz trabajo. He Angería que ese proceso revolucionario no se rabarraría. Tierra muchas zurück y muchas de இரes que hemos disabilities, también tienen que ver. Yo creo que los son de Nista, como el gobierno de nuestro gobierno,

que están mirando por la intracción de la mayoridad de las personas en el contacto con la mayoridad de las personas. Aunque lo que se sabe es que no es glittería y es bonita, como uno de las personas que se sumen. Josefina, ¿cómo están? En un muy grande contacto con el Centro de Nista Programa de la Comunidad de Nicaragua. Y yo creo que si podías compartirlo con lo que piensas, o algunos de los aspectos de ese programa, la economía, la reforma, etcétera, que se va a estar trabajando muy bien en el estado de la guerra, que es involucrado y, perhaps, usted podría mencionar también qué son los aspectos de la programas que no se va a funcionar muy bien, porque la guerra o, perhaps, ¿cómo están los aspectos de la reforma de la Comunidad de Nicaragua? Bueno, la guerra ha causado una gran diferencia de la economía que se ha estimado por más de $2 billones.

En la economía es frágil, como el Centro de Nicaragua, y en un poco más de 4 veces, 5 veces, es un expo de la familia de Nicaragua. Es un aspecto muy serio. Cuando yo estaba ahí, yo diría que todo el proyecto de revolución revolucionario ha sido afectado por la guerra. Las grandes avances han sido afectadas, de course, en literación, en la guerra. Esa, especialmente en la devolución de la revolución, han sido reconocidos por la Organización Internacional de la Universidad de Nicaragua y la OAS para su trabajo en literación y la guerra. Pero, como digo, todo lo que ha sido afectado por la guerra, es la una programas que continúa. Y, en realidad, perhaps, es esperada por la guerra de la agraria y reforma programas por la que la guerra es distribuida a la mayoridad, la mayoridad, la mayoridad. La mayoría de las personas de Nicaragua

son las reformas de la mayoridad. Y la mayoridad de las personas de la mayoridad es la mayoridad de la mayoridad, no la mayoridad de la vida. Entonces, en el tiempo que yo estaba ahí, yo he visto un número de changes en la agraria y reforma de la agraria. El molde de Sonaní se Initially basado están atreados, voluntarily la política después para lahotar, para esta falla. El mayor momento de los países de la fazesa de que pusimos de�a por cette fraque á luna. que se ha cambiado, que Paul se ha cambiado, que se ha cambiado mucho más, y que se ha cambiado mucho más en el formato individual. Así que esto se ha progresado throughout, y, por parte, porque de la guerra, ha cambiado los efectos de la guerra, la economía, la suerte de la economía, la sonía que se ha respondido con la distribución de la guerra

para ver la paz y la necesidad para la subsistencia. Y también para mantener puestos pivotantes para su proyecto y para su gobierno. Yo estoy pensando que antes de que contract manageable frente al interview, Ang Hugo podrá similar paraỉ participar de un velo Departmentado. 叛i el Inside your Vale deート. Así que en Estados Unidos silhouette electrocidido por τις áreas ¿Por qué túdepth�irás se ingresó lo que hiciste lo que hiciste? Absol면, sí, la complicación. Casi era como un cいて o no comien monumento, lo que le pasó para durar andating lo que antesiden lo que любов Jeśli tumor

en ellos habitatas. Por lo menos, lo que encontró con como una risa que longitudinal demandaba llamaría, hay tantas partes socialistas, per guerra, lifting y pumpedon. Incluso, naz warm. De todas formas, están bajados delativo del mundo, lo probablemente Osan, – alike, se fue todo muy difícil? – Pues el economy es muy chiorcario America porque hay pasbas notchis por la importancia de applause de las virtades de mimic niekan. Es una integralowieza lapse, el muerto sozial y la suele, spoonel al suelo de cada tus seds, automáticamenteTake, exhibit langue una avana, recogara que es la simulación de las espacías. de la guerra, porque de la dirección directa a la economía, porque de las pesas que

han migrado de las refuercias y no han producido el land, porque de la parte de la economía acta de la población de la defensa de la producción de la población es muy grande y la demanda es muy grande, obviamente la demanda continúa el mismo, el país es grande en la población de la población, desde la revolución, en las grandes razas. Así que esa es la procesión de agarrar en la vida de la vida es una cosa exástima y es la forma de una persona que hace cada día. Mucha ha sido considerada de los grandes avances, el sándal de Nista Programa ha sido posible hacer la educación y la medicación de la población de la población. Y me estoy listo en dos años, yo creo que hay una buena impresión para lo que ha pasado en las dos cosas y ¿cubrán ustedes? ¿Es realmente true que las sándanas de Nista ha sido muy successful con la educación y la medicación de la población de la población?

Sí, se han sido muy successful, especialmente en los primeros años, como he dicho, ahora están básicamente tratando de mantener las avances que están haciendo en los primeros años después de la revolución, antes que la contratía era realmente picada. El intercario de Kakaragua fue 82% antes del revolución, y cerяла esos posidades, esos mejores rodzíes que han sido dejados en정as. es muy inspirante para ver eso, y así es un gran esfuerzo que ha sido para eso, sobre eso. También, en la mortalidad de infantil, se fueron able de poner en la mortalidad de 120 de edad per 1000 a 80 de edad per 1000.

Eso es una muy significativa, en realidad, la organización de la world health de la mortalidad, para la mejor model de la mortalidad de la mortalidad de la mortalidad de la mortalidad en 1985. Así que en Latin America, como dije, se han hecho, se han extendido estos servicios para la gran mayoridad de la población y, por eso, han hecho lo que se llama el social wage. La mortalidad es la freya, la educación es también la freya. Si, de course, estos dos programas son crénoseoами Garramente, que, conciousmente, se han llamado la violación since theей 1900 hotlinex sin democratizar la violación. Y incluimos de stoleado de que los eleveniaos variants. Las sumaschanging una con las cooked providing 100 schools, sobre 100 decks de belief".

más doubled sin跌es. Después deviejas, Pekiyes yiftres, los corruptos HELDORODOS אנחנו vienen de una roXa de zeros que funcionan contra la revolución. Hay un equipo de Bangladesh a su expertención que mens international comunica de todos los personas, que abolitionan, este año mandan para buscar la naturaleza. con las conarias. y los trabajadores y personas que se están involucrados y se están associados con ellos. Cosifina, supongo que cuando llegué a Nicaragua en los días, cuando llegué a personas, y quizás tuvimos ciertas circunstancias, tuvimos que hablar con las personas y tuvimos ciertas circunstancias. Estoy preocupado en si podías compartir con nosotros qué tus circunstancias eran y qué tuvimos que hablar con las personas directas ¿ defended your money? ¿Te doy cualquier cosa?

Pues eso de siege, espero que lo conoce. Se vio por favor, y evaporó. So I did, I did seek out conversations with people who would be opposed to the son de nieces. And there was a good deal of a freedom, I think, and people's ability to, to voice their, their concerns or their complaints about the son de nieces. People were, you can, I ones, are not hesitant at all to tell you what they believe the mistakes the errors that the son de nieces are making are I think sometimes they will say, you know, don't tell anybody that I said that or they voice that kind of concern, but at the same time they're willing to to talk at the top of their lungs, you know, within 10 meters of a, of a

policeman about problems that are going on in the government. So I think a lot of the fear that they might be reprisals for what they say is an inheritance from the 45 years that they lived in the Somosidictatorship where there was a real cause for concern if you were to voice any complaints that there's going to be repression against you. But the majority of the people in Nicaragua that I spoke to, if not, you know, all were very, very willing to talk, express, you know, complaints or support. And there wasn't a real sense of intimidation that I think you immediately tune into if it exists, if that kind of random repression exists against people, voicing opposition against the government, you can tell, you can feel the tension. And that wasn't there really. People were very willing. That was my major concern that with that kind of repression might be going on behind the scenes, but I really didn't see any evidence of that while I was going on. Yes, people, opposition members who speak out and associate themselves directly with the cuantra have reason to expect this on the

nieces to take action against them, to arrest them, to bring them to trial as collaborators of kind with the kind of revolution. And that does happen, but, you know, all of the international human rights associations do not find the sondanistas guilty of torture or any kind of gross human rights violations. So I mean, they see any kind of collaboration with the kind of revolution that's treason, and rightly so. And so that's why people who oppose the government and associate themselves with the cuantra openly are likely to be arrested, but they are about to trial and they do get due process of loss. So it's within the, within the context of war, I think that if those actions aren't forgivable, they're understandable. Much has been made by the Reagan administration about the, the allegation that, that the sondanistas do not have a, a broad support from the general population. What is your feeling on

this? Well, I was actually fortunate to be there during the elections in 1984 on November 2nd, 1984. Almost all the countries of Western Europe and Latin America sent delegations to observe the elections. All reports came out very favorably. They were also delegations sent from the United States, not official government delegations, but delegations sent by different lawyers, groups and different groups that are in solidarity with Nicaragua. LASA, also the Latin American Studies Association. Various respected groups from the United States also went to monitor the elections. And most everyone gave the sondanistas a very, the government a very favorable report on the conduction of the elections. And often said that they were, they were freer and more democratic than those held in El Salvador. So really the Reagan administration stands alone in his condemnation of that election process,

alone in in terms of Western Europe and Latin America and within certain groups in the United States. So at during the sondanistas, one 67% of the vote, that's a fairly clear margin of victory. And 85% of the population voted. So it's much different than the United States where they won in fact much, much larger percent of support from their people. Then for example, Reagan did in the United States where not even 50% of the people turned out to vote. So I think that allegation is false and unfounded. As I said, there are out, of course, because the war has deteriorated, deteriorated the economy to such a degree, people are dissatisfied. And some of that dissatisfaction is, of course, dissatisfaction. People feel dissatisfied with the governments, the FSLN's handling of the economy. And although I think the sondanistas support might have dwindled somewhat, they still have a very

strong base of support within the population. And you see that in in in the country all the time, you know, people's willingness, people's enthusiasm about going to rallies to show their support for the government or participating in the programs of the government is, is, is conducting and whatnot. And just, you know, on the street, people may complain endlessly about the economy. But, you know, if you ask them, well, who are you going to vote for in 1990, they'll say, the sondanistas, you know, so it never complaining about the economic situation. It's very important to point out does not translate into support for the contra. By any means, the Nicaragua population within the Nicaragua population, the contra really has has has minimal, minimal support. The contra is still very closely associated in the minds of the people with the National Guard. In fact, many people in Nicaragua still call it La Guardia. And so, so I would say sondanistas to have a very strong core base of support.

We're talking about this occasion with the companion Josefina Saldana, who visit our cities from La Rio Tejas, the companion Saldana, spent almost two years in Nicaragua. While there, she worked at the Institute of Historical Central Americano in Managua, as a writer and translator. She also did translation work for the magazine Envio, and also wrote for the magazine Update. She is visiting Albuquerque for a series of of platicas at various sites. Corbanera Josefina, after all, a North American from the United States. And I am wondering if this fact and the fact that the U.S. is involved in the counter-revolution, did this fact make your life a little bit difficult in

Nicaragua? Well, actually, no, quite the opposite. The Nicaragua people are very politically sophisticated. The insurrection and the war against the counter has made them very astute to politically end. In fact, they are very clear about making a strong distinction between the American, the U.S. government and the Reagan administration and the United States people. They feel a very, very close bond with the United States people. They feel that the United States people are united with them in their desire against war in Central America. And so, in fact, they love to have us there, really. As long as you're not associating yourself, obviously, with the United States government, as long as you're not a Jean Hassanfuss, they greet you with open arms and are very receptive to having people from the United States go down, visit their country, see for themselves, see what Reagan is saying is a pack of lies, and they're very hospitable. The only kind of hostility that was ever expressed to me in

Nicaragua and it was on two occasions only was usually by writers, people who were clearly to the right and opposed to the Sun and East of government, and in fact, even affiliated with the United States. And they're the ones who are hostile to our presence there because they see us as internationalists, as either supporting the Sun and the East as, or certainly at least not there supporting the contras. So, they're the ones who express hostility to our needs. But the majority of the people receive you very warmly. In fact, more so, oftentimes than I have felt, as a Chicana traveling through Mexico. Interesting. Well, because of the contralucionario activities, was it difficult for you to, let's say, to travel between cities, or was it, was it even difficult for you to walk in Managua? No, not at all. The only, there's a lot of freedom of

movement in Nicaragua. You basically can go anywhere you want. The only kinds of restrictions that will let times be placed upon me as a foreigner is if I'm with a group. As an individual, I can go everywhere I want, except the Atlantic Coast. The Atlantic Coast does require permission because it's dangerous to get to, because the Atlantic Coast is the area of a lot of counter-revolutionary It does require permission. But I was free to travel around Managua and free to travel around all of the Pacific Plains, and even including the war zones on the Pacific Plains. Only if there's a threat of my life being in danger, and I'm with a group of foreigners, then the Sun and the East Coast might say, you can't go to that town. There's been counter-revolutionary activity. You'll have to wait a few days. But I was very free to move about the country in Managua. There are no curfews. There's a state of emergency, but that's very different than a state of siege. A state of siege is something that the Sun and the Nicaraguan people are very familiar with because they lived under it for many years under Samosa. But a state of emergency is much more limited in its

restrictions on the population's ability to move about and gather and whatnot. The Nicaraguan's don't need permission to go anywhere, even to the Atlantic Coast. There, of course, are very free to travel wherever they want to go. Can we talk a little bit about the activity on the borders? How difficult is it for Nicaragua right now, or in those two years that you were there? How difficult is it for Nicaragua now to defend its borders? And as far as you know, are the contres operating from inside Nicaragua on a permanent basis? Well, since the beginning of 1985, the Sandinistas launched an offensive against the counter-revolution. They dedicated, they've been, since 1985, they've been dedicated 60% of their budget to defense. And it's been a very, very, very successful offensive. In fact, the counter-revolutionaries right now are

strategically defeated. In from January to July of this year, the estimated Contra deaths are 2,500 wounded, 1,000 captured, 300. Those who have turned themselves in under the Amnesty Law because the Sandinistas do have an Amnesty Law that pardons and reintegrates any Contra who surrenders into his community. So, 2,500 have taken advantage of that. The contres are decimated at this point. The estimates for the number of contres acting within the country, both by the US officials and by the Sandinistas, is at less than 2,000. So, I think that what those contres who are left are right now gathered along the Honduran border and the Costa Rican border waiting for the aid, the $100,000,000 aid to come through and to try to offensive. However, as I said, I think they're defeated. It's strategically defeated in that they will

not be able to replenish their troops. The peasants that were being coerced or persuaded into joining the Contra just aren't going to be, let that happen to them anymore, really. Those who had gone, many of those contres who have surrendered, who had gone with the Contra, expecting economic advantages, have returned very disgruntled. And the peasants now know that the contres really don't represent any alternative, any advancements. They're not going to go with them. And this coupled with the stepped up, as I was saying before, distribution of land to the peasantry. There's no economic motive to go with the Contra. Many of the peasants have left the zones where the Contra used to kidnap people from. So, I think they can have a very difficult time replenishing their troops. And that's the two danger right now, I believe, is that the Reagan administration, even with his $100 million, is not going to be able to rebuild the Contra force and is going to be forced to back them up. In

one way or another, either with strategic bombings, with an invasion using their own troops, which I think is unlikely. I think what we may see, and what there are already some indications of, and we have to watch out for, is the use of the Honduran Army to back up the Contra in an invasion against Nicaragua. And recent incidents along the border, the Honduran Army having bombed the Honduran Air Force, having bombed two villages. Indicate that we really have to be wary about this, especially since Reagan is really under the gun. He's under the spotlight with this Iran Contra arm scandal. And he's, I think he's very capable of looking for a diversion, like having prompting forcing Honduras. To use its troops to support the Contra and an invasion against Nicaragua, I think this is something we have to be very wary about. Because the Contra as a fighting force, even with the $100 million, doesn't matter how much technical weaponry escalated weaponry has dropped, dumped on them. They don't have people to

use those weapons. So I think we'll see an increase in the mercenary forces, the number of mercenaries in the force. And also, like I said, the possibility of Honduras being used to launch an invasion against them. Much has been made by the Reagan administration about definitely putting a stop to communism in Nicaragua. And after all, Nicaragua is almost at our border. And so, and so we are faced with this allegation that Nicaragua has totally been taken over. But Sovietization is what I believe they call it. What can you tell us about that? Was it really apparent to you while you were there for two years that that the Soviet Union has penetrated almost all aspects of Nicaragua in life? No, I would say that that's the brightest thing from the truth. Obviously, there are Soviets and there are Cubans in Nicaragua. Nicaragua is fighting a war on their soil against a superpower

of the United States. And they have to turn to aid somewhere. And the longer the war goes on, the more and more they have to turn to the Soviet Union for aid. It's important, I'd like to point out a number of things, though, about why we should not fear a communist, a Soviet-style communist takeover of Nicaragua. Firstly, in terms economically, until 1985, until the declaration of the embargo by the United States, economically, their largest trading in partner and their largest amount of aid actually came from Latin America, not from the Eastern bloc. 35% of the aid in trade that Nicaragua does is with was with Latin America at the end of 1985. In 25% of their trade is with the Western Europe, I'm sorry, Western Europe. So you see that economically they are not dependent on the Soviet Union and the Eastern bloc as of yet. However, with, oh

at the time, also 17% of their trade was done with the United States. Now, after the embargo was declared, they had to seek other markets for the products of the United States used to buy for them. And while the majority of the goods are not being bought by Canada and Europe, they did also have to turn to the Soviet Union. And for imports, clearly, for imports that they used to get from the United States, they are now having to change, switch over technologically to the Eastern bloc, where the most willing to give them credit lines and what not on the technology they need. But again, we see a pattern here where the aggression by the United States, something like the embargo, forces the Nicaraguan's to have to turn to the only place where they can get more aid. And that is often the Soviet Union. However, the most important thing, I think, to point out is that the two things. First, that the Sandhinesis have said time and time again that if the United States is willing to cease their backing of the Contra, they will send all advisers, military and civilian, that would include

not just military advisers, but doctors and teachers and people who are there engineers, people who are there for civilian purposes, all of their advisers from the Eastern bloc and from Cuba out of the country. And it will only stop funding the Contra. They've made this proposition time and time again within Contradora. And the United States, of course, chooses to ignore that proposition because it's not advantageous to its interests in the region as a whole. Also, I think it's also very important to point out that the Sandhinesis didn't fight 25 years, didn't fight a war for 20 years, to get rid of one dictator backed by an imperialist power simply to replace it with another imperial domination by another imperialist power. And I think in the types of economic and social policies that they are making, they are very clearly being original and they are not following a Soviet style or a Cuban style economic modeling. And by any means, they're following their own pattern, they're

trying to be a state that determines their own economy and they have the right to do that. They certainly do. Hemos estado platicando esta noche con la compañera Josefina Saldánea de Laredo Tejas. Ella visita nuestra ciudad con el propósito de hacer varias presentaciones. Tocante su visita a Nicaragua por dos años en total. Josefina, thank you very much for accepting the invitation to the Spanish Islam. And we thank you very much for sharing this very valuable information. Ojalá que puedes un buen tiempo aquí en Albuquerque durante tu visita. Para espejos de Islam, yo soy Cecilio García Camarillo invitándolos a que nos acompañan el siguiente lunes, como que las 8 p.m. para seguir platicando.