Birmingham: Testament of Nonviolence; Part 4; Back to School in Birmingham [1 of 2]

Back to school in Birmingham. Birmingham, Testament of Nonviolence, Part Four. Released from jail, now back to school. Instructions from the Reverend Ralph D. Abernathy, one of the leaders of the Birmingham movement. On Monday morning, you are to go back to school. [Congregation applause] Now, now, I want you to promise me something on this . . . Monday morning, you are to go back to school. Now everybody that's going back to school, let me hear you say Amen . . . [Congregation:] Amen! Now nobody--listen to me-- Listen to me children. Nobody has been expelled from school. [Congregation applause] [applause] Now you are to go back, to school, on Monday morning.

Now you may have gotten a letter, calling for you to meet, with the Superintendent of Education. Or with the principal, or with somebody. If you are to meet with the him, go dressed up; [Congregation movement] and don't go bowed down, or with a broken heart, or bowed down to him, but go, and look him dead in the eyes, [Congregation movement] and tell him, that according to what you have been taught, in the public schools of Birmingham Alabama . . . what you have been taught, that you have merely, been obeying those orders, that you have only protested, a law, that is unconstitutional, in a peaceful manner.

This is what you are to say to him. [Congregation applause] Go back to school, fill up the schools, on Monday morning, and then give them a chance to expel you. Then if they expel you, if they- if they tell you that you are to stay after school for one hour, or that you're to sweep the floor, this isn't in the thing. Go on and sweep it . . . go on because every time they told me that I was to go to jail, I didn't go running from them did I? [Congregation says No.] But I voluntarily went to jail. I was willing to accept the consequences for what I had done wrong, according to them; now you have been out of school, isn't that right? [Congregation says Yes!]

'Cause you've been here at 16th Street Baptist Church. So if they tell you that you are to sweep the floor or to stay a few hours after school, go ahead, go right ahead and do that. But if they, are foolish enough to suspend you, or expel you from school, then I our experiment from school. then I'll tell you what to do. You let the rest of the school know about it. And then the whole school, going to march outside [Congregation applause] and then, you will not come back to A16th Street Baptist Church. But what will you do? [Congregation proffers] March around around that school. [Congregation applause] And march around, in such large numbers, that the principal will invite you to come on in, on the inside. [Congregation applause]

hour have. . . . and serve notice on 'em that you're not gonn' march, but just one day, around that school, and the next school, you will march on over, to the white school. [Congregation applause] hour Now Now . . . now . . . now isn't that sayin' enuff? The. Today we're going home, and we're going home in an orderly fashion . . . we are not gonna go down and try and integrate the lunch counters; we're going to wait until we hear, from the mass meeting, when we are to go down. Tomorrow we are together here at 16th Street Baptist

Church and pick up our phones, and knock on every door in our neighborhood, and organize the best voter registration drive in the nation. Sunday we are to go to church if they let us in, all right; if they ask us to leave, we are to do what? [Congregation: Leave] Monday mornin', we are to go back to school, just like nothing, never happened. [Congregation laughter] Walk right on in, like we've been walkin' in; don't be arrogant, and don't be haughty. If they invite, if they tell you to go see the Board of Education, walk right in . . . lookin' up, look at him dead in the eyes, telling him that you've done nothing wrong, for you learned it in his school, that every man, is entitled to the same rights, under the Constitution of the United States of

America [Congregation applause] If they put you out of school, you are to march, And get every Negro, in that school to march with you, around that school, for one day; and then the next day, you are to march where? [Congregation: To the white school!] To the white school. Now don't you think that's fair enough? [Congregation: agree] God bless you, and God keep you. Now I know that I've been talking too long . . . but I say to you now, I say to you now, now don't- don't don't leave me, don't do me like that; I say to you now: Martin Luther King, is not going to leave Birmingham Alabama. I, Ralph Abernathy, is

not going to leave, Birmingham Alabama. You may hear, that we have to go to Atlanta, on Sunday, to preach in our churches, in order that we can make a little money to pay the rent, and keep the water bill going . . . but we will be in Birmingham until Birmingham lives up to these commitments . . . and if Birmingham, does not live up to these commitments, then we are going, to lead you in a number that is larger than the number that John saw. [Congregation applause] [applause] [Church breaks out in gospel choir, instrumental singing]

[Gospel choir continues] [Gospel choir continues] [Male broadcaster:] Now. No more waiting. Now. Birmingham's young Negroes skipped school, took their chances. They pledged themselves to nonviolence and defied the law. They marched on city hall, and went to jail. College students, high school students, teenagers not in school. Children in grade school. Little kids, 7 years, old 6 years old. They overflowed the jails. Many arrested and later released, simply got themselves arrested again and again. Of the more than three thousand two hundred demonstrators arrested, the greater number were teenagers and younger children. The Birmingham movement's 38-day, Direct Action Campaign to bring about integration, became in its climactic week

essentially a children's crusade. Most of the students returned to school on Monday May 13th, following the negotiated terminations of the Direct Action Campaign, and a Mother's Day weekend of violence and rioting. A high school senior describes her return to school. [Female student:] The church had been telling me that I wouldn't be able to graduate but I went up there and they had gave me my ring and I have my ring on my finger and I have my invitation and everything and I will graduate on the 31st of this month. [Male voice:] Congratulations. [Student:] Thank you. [Voice:] What school is this? [Student:] This is Rosedale High School. [Voice:] So far as you know, did any of the students have any difficulties--[Student:] No, they didn't, All of 'em are welcome back to school, they're proud of us. [Reporter:] Bob Polk, Minister to Youth of the Riverside Church in the city of New York, joined our WRVR reporting team in Birmingham, to explore opinions, attitudes and experiences of the young Negroes taking part in the integration campaign. During this program you will hear a number, of Negro teenagers discussing with him

their attitudes and experiences. [Catherine:] Well first of all, I have been sitting around the house looking or reading the paper or seeing what's gonna happen the next day and there- things like this and one of my friends approached me with the idea of going down to a youth meeting, and the youth meetings were held in the afternoon at 4 o'clock. And one day I went down and, they were holding a workshop, and I became very interested, and, they were teaching you an- and giving you instructions as to the nonviolent program, and, I went back the next day and I found myself going back every day, and this really, well this is, the real reason that I really joined the movement because of the nonviolent program, and it's so interesting and so intriguing that I had to get in it. [Bob Polk:] I think the best thing you can do for us at this point, is tell us some of the, teachings that they, put forth the days that you went to the workshops in terms of the Nonviolent Movement. [Catherine:] Well first of all, and very importantly, they,

told us about the teachings of God and, love; we are to love our fellow men and our neighbor. And no matter how- how much, harm or, discord is inflicted upon us, we were told and we were taught, that nonviolence and kindness and love, forgiveness and understanding were very vital in this struggle and, that, this is very important. And we were taught to, go along those things; then we were given instructions as to, when you are approached by an officer or something, someone like that, and you were beaten, or struck, then we were told not to strike back and we were told not to have, violent thoughts. Everything about us was to be nonviolent. This nonviolent program has really changed my outlook on humanity period. [Polk:] Catherine, would you comment on the use of children and teenagers in the,

demonstrations. [Catherine:] This was very important because after all, these kids weren't told that this was something they had to do, we presented them with the facts, they realized the situation and what had to be done and they plunged right in, with the movement, to get it done because they know that this is their town, they have to live here, and- and unless this is settled and, is not to be lingered on and on, and those kids are really interested that they want to come to an early, agreement, and really get things started, and, without the kids it- the movement wouldn't have been as successful as it was, the kids were wonderful, wonderful kids. [Polk:] Do you feel finally that the, demonstrations and going to jail, have been worth the effort? [Catherine:] Yes very much so. My experiences in jail were- were awful; I had an awful time, they- they pushed me around and everything, but, the kids there, (inaudible) I was in a cell with, a-

approximately a hundred and eighty-three girls, and- and all of us we just had a wonderful time--we were treated like, animals, I'd say, and-- [Polk:] Can you spell out this treatment for me? In what way were you treated like animals? [Catherine:] All right maybe I should start from the beginning; our left line with Dick Gregory, we let the first group of demonstrators out on, Monday morning [Polk:] Dick would always pick the best looking girl to lead the line [she laughs] And, we- after we were taken taken the to jail, we were taken out of the wagons and we were put in the yard and locked up, so we had- we were waiting around the yard about an hour and a half, no one had come out to take us anyplace, anything. So, they start, some officers came to the gate and they started, to let the kids out, and, we had-- I had been instructed the- to, take care of the kids; or maybe I should say that, I am Secretary of the Student Committee for Human Rights here in Birmingham and, so I approached the officer and I asked him wh- where wa- what was he going to do with the kids? And, I asked him, well why was- why was I

concerned and so I told the kids, I said Stop right here you won't goin' to anyplace, just wait until- until he tells you where you're goin' And, so he said, well I'm just gonna take 'em over to the other side of the fence, because they're juveniles, and then he told the officer to take me inside the building and the officer pushed me around and poke me in the back with his club and everything, and I was taken into the- the office there and I was asked a lot of questions and, all of the questions I- I, didn't answer, I refused to comment, other than my name, my address and my age, and, after that, I asked the officer What was I being charged with other than the violation of section 1159 of the City Code, and he said No Comment; you know very frankly, he wouldn't even tell me why, you know, I was in there; then he took me and put me in a cell- [Polk:] By yourself? [Catherine:] No, there were a couple other girls in- in but they had been in before, they had- they were arrested the Saturday before, and, I, went in willingly,

and after about an hour and a half with- in the cell talking to the girls, it started raining an' those kids was still outside, so I started banging on the door you know, and there was this- another girl with me her name was Mary Hamilton and, so we start banging on the door and he came in and told us What was the matter and we better stop doin' that because he would beat us. And we told him to get those kids in out of the rain. And he said Those kids are doing all right and we said Those kids are going to catch pneumonia and everything was thundering and everything and we told him t' get 'em in out of the rain, and he said, go somewhere and sit down and called us niggas and things, so we told him we said, if you don't get those kids out of the rain so we're goin' to really tear the place up and he said I dare ya. (inaudible) I'll put you in solitary confinement the minute he walked out of the door, I grabbed another door and Mary grabbed the window we started shaking the wall. (laughter) the window we started shaking the walls. (laughter) And he came back and they put us in solitary and I was designed for one person, there were 12 of us in there and we were all over

on top of each other and some of the girls had to crawl up on the bars to keep from, you know, bars, to keep from, you know, stepping on someone it was very crowded. We stayed hours without food water or toilet facilities. Then we were released and given cold stale bologna sandwiches which we could not eat. So we decided to drink water. Around about two o'clock we were taken upstairs on the third floor and there we were put on cold steel bunks without cover steel bunks without cover. And there were so many girls that some of them had to sleep on the floor on newspaper. And these conditions prevailed for we were taken upstairs, you know, early in the morning, tuesday you know early in the morning Tuesday and we really didn't have anything to eat since. Since Monday because we couldn't eat those bolgona sandwiches and we were deprived Tuesday morning which actually means that we didn't get anything to eat until noon anything to eat until noon on Tuesday. Girls were very hungry

and the food was so,so bad the girls got sick and they had a little bar there and really. I, I actually lived off PayDay candy bars, Tip Top Lucky Cakes and water. Really they had, the only thing that was eatable in the whole place was applesauce and I just couldn't eat applesauce all the the time. And then, then we were taken, you know, back, every time we were marched in a line back up to the cell and if you hesitated for a for a moment you were poked in the back and the side with clubs from the officers and called and call us all kinds of names, call every-- call us everything but children of God. And um ev every day, every morning, we would have a prayer meeting and in the afternoon before before we would go to dinner we had a prayer meeting and always before bedtime. We remembered God, and we thought that He remembered us. And on Tuesday when we heard that that we had a great big mass demonstration downtown and the people outside were still interested and they were striving to get their problems [inaudible] I

oh I was just overwhelmed with joy. This was real wonderful. Everything was real dull. The toilet facilities were they were filthy. It wasn't fit for, for an animal. You wouldn't treat an animal like this. When we got there we didn't even have soap. We had no toilet tissue anything just to have a big sink there [undecipherable noise] with water. But the girls survived and I think. Oh yes I found out that they were taking some of the girls out of the cell. They call us freedom fighters [laugh]. [Laugh] It would take some of us freedom fighters out of the cell and we always wonder where they took these girls. So I left jail Saturday around about twelve noon. But before I left I found out that they were taking the girls these young girls 17 and 18 years old down and put them in the cell with the inmates. And you had all kinds of people down there, drunks and just everybody down there and they would put them put them in there and and I was

later told that they put them in there with the idea that those inmates would you know attack them. Yes. But they-- I was told that the girls were treated nice, that they were protected. They told a policeman that the inmates told the policeman that they were hurting them that they were beating them but actually they were very nice to them. And this is very very wrong. I feel that I must go back to jail because there has been some complications on my part as far as I was getting getting bonded out and this is a mistake on the part of the city. But my lawyer told me that to be ex- you know to expect to be picked up at any moment and I hope to God they don't put me in there with those inmates. [Interviewer] How did you find out that they were taking the girls down to the cells with the male inmates? In other words, how does communication get around in city prison? [Interviewee] Well these girls after you know when they'd said that they were going to bond everyone out, then they brought them back upstairs

and they told us about it. And they said it was very bad. But as far communication within the cell, we would get close to the window and you know we would holler up out of the window and that's how we would do it. Now one night, everybody was very- [interviewer] May I stop you here just a minute? [interviewer] Are you saying in effect then that the inmates, the male inmates where they took some of the girls. Oh these were female inmates, respected what you were there for and the movement? They respected the movement in such a way that they did not molest or bother you? [female interviewee] Yes very much so. They told them they were proud of them and that they were doing something which they had no strength, they had no strength to do these things and they were really proud of them and told them to have no fear. Anything that they wanted, to come to them and they would help them. Even the drunks pitched in and said that this is something that should be done and we're very proud of it. I took my Bible and I would go around to the girls and we would get together and we would read and we would sing and one night when as I started before, one night we were very depressed,

we were told that they have put water on the boys. I know that the boys were sleeping outside because we could look of the window at night and see the boys outside. And we just started singing and we sang all night. That was Thursday night. We sang all night. And early in the morning- we was still singing. I was tired but I said I must keep going. [interviewer] I think it's best to identify the noises that we hear above. We are at the-- one of the mass rallies at the Sixth Avenue Baptist Church. This is Bob Polk. Reporting for radio station WRVR Riverside Church in New York City. I would like to find out some of the interesting things that happened to you. [male interviewee] Well at first [inaudible] started getting organized so they could demonstration and things. We was meeting at 16th St. Baptist Church and to register for it, the young lady that was taking up names, your address and telephone number, and how long would you like to stay in jail. And I was in there for two days. And we marched down 7th Avenue and the police stopped us after we had gotten a block away from the church

and it took us on to jail and I was there about two days before we could get anything to eat. And the first night was that it got the the fan on. They had the fan blowing on us all night long. [interviewer] Was this cold air from the fan or warm air? [interviewee] Cold air. [interviewer] Cold air. [interviewee] Cold air. [interviewer] How long would it take before you got something to eat? [interviewee] It was about a day and a half. [interviewer makes affirming sound] [interviewer] And how many students were arrested with you? [interviewee] It was about 50. [interviewer] About 50 [makes affirming sound]. What were the conditions like once you got into jail? [interviewee] It was it was awful. They mug-shotted us, took our fingerprints, then they treated us all rough like. [interviewer] They rough you up at all, any specifically, hit you or beat you or anything like this? [interviewee] No. [interviewer] What were some of the reactions of the students in the jail? [interviewee] Well they seemed to enjoy it because they feel all of them feel they was helping they race. [interviewer makes affirming sound] [interviewer] Some of the newspapers both locally and in New York and around the country have mentioned the fact that they were not very-- they had

mixed feelings about the use of teenagers, children, maybe even college students in terms of the demonstrations. I wonder how you feel about yourself, being a college student, and the reactions of some of the younger children and teenagers in this whole situation. [interviewee] Well the teenagers, well they was going along with this 100 percent and the elementary school kids was going along with it 100 percent and the youngest we had was demonstrating with us was a 6 year old girl. [interviewer] [inaudible], 6 year old girl. Does she get put in jail also? [interviewee] Yes she was, juvenile court. [interviewer] Juvenile court. [interviewer makes affirming sound] Do you think it was right to use students in this kind of venture or should it have been relatively speaking closer to the college level and the adults? [interviewee] Well I don't think the adults are going along with-- well with this like the students feel that this should have taken place a long time ago. And the kids want their kids now to have a better opportunity in life. [Interviewer] How do you feel about the whole nonviolent movement? [Interviewee] At first when we

started, you'll find a lot of the high school kids was coming in with knives, razors and fingernail files and and coppers and all sorts of things like that. But they couldn't march with those things in their pockets, because that's one thing that would give the police something to book them on. So in the church, Reverend Bevel took those things up. And the way I feel-- about two or three years ago I had a very quick temper. Then I found out later that I couldn't get along in life with this temper I had so I had to get rid of it and try to change and now that I have, I think I can go along with anything, any situation. [Interviewer] And this preparation came through the Reverend Mr. Bevel, Mr. Young, other people who have prepared you for this program? [Interviewee] Yes. [Interviewer] Reverend, what is your last name again? [Interviewee] Shorter. [Interviewer] Reverend Shorter would you like to make some comments about some of the things we've been talking about? [Shorter] I was arrested Friday with Martin Luther. We first got in, there was a couple nasty remarks,

but we had been instructed very properly to keep our head up and to ignore the thing. There was a little rough howling, the Reverend ?Linfield?, he pushed him around a little bit, but he remained nonviolent and he showed us actually he used his actions to show us how to go about it. As far as the food, for four meals we couldn't eat anything because we wanted to ask for a blessing, a grace, over our food, and each time we began it we had orders to move out. First out of the quarter, concrete floors, no blankets, no bed. The first night I was there, they locked us outdoors at a place they called the pit. And this pit was very cold at night, the wind was blowing. Well we continued on in our religious ceremony, you know, praying and singing 'til I guess about 3:00 in the morning they opened the doors. But at first-- [Interviewer] How many nights were you there in all? [Interviewee] I was there five and a half. [Interviewer] Five

and a half nights. [Shorter] But as far as reactions, we all tried to maintain our head for the purpose which we were there because we knew that the least bit of violence would give a black mark on the movement and we didn't want to do that. [Interviewer] Yes. You mention the fact that every time you were trying to eat you would have grace before and they would not allow you to have grace, does this mean they would not allow you to eat? [Shorter] They didn't allow us to eat if we asked the grace. [Interviewer] If you asked the grace, mm-hmm. [Shorter] But our feeling was if we couldn't ask to grace for the food which we wanted to eat, well then we didn't need it. We could get along without it and we did for four and a half meals I think it was until finally they gave in and let us eat. [Interviewer] And you could also have grace too? [Shorter] Yes we did. [Interviewer] What is the general reaction to the other persons who were in jail with you? [Shorter] When I was in jail, it was a completely nonviolent movement, there were times where some of the kids might become depressed because it was their first being locked up in jail. But there was always

somebody to come around to give them encouraging remarks. And the depressing moment would always pass by. The days, they went by real fast and most of the kids, when it came time for them to get out, they didn't want to get out. [Interviewer] Is that right? Why did this happen, you suppose? [Shorter] Well, we felt like if we stay there and fill the jails up they wouldn't have a place to put anybody else, we felt like we were giving them more trouble than they were giving us. [Interviewer] You mention the fact that you went to jail with Dr. King, was he in the same cell with you? [Shorter] No. We got in that Friday evening and he was with us about two hours before they took him and locked him in solitary off to a place where he wasn't allowed to have any visitors, no personal contact. He was just isolated from the rest of us. I guess they felt like if they should take the leaders away from the group, the group would fall apart, but we had learned to unify, we had unity in one body, so it didn't harm us. [Interviewer] During the two hours that he was with you did he have a chance to talk with the group at all and give you encouragement and support? [Shorter] Yes he did,

he was very encouraging, gave us some thoughts. I think they stuck with us all during our jail term, because constantly at times, you'd hear somebody quoting some of these words verbally. [Different speaker?] Here in Birmingham all the white people are not bad, it's a lot of them demonstrating with us. [Interviewer] They were? [Speaker] They were. And most of them from Birmingham Southern College here. [Interviewer] And how many of the students from Birmingham Southern were demonstrating with you? [Speaker] Well it's sort of hard to say, there's some coming down every day. [Interviewer] Were they also jailed? [Speaker] Yes they were. [Interviewer] In segregated cells or integrated cells? [Speaker] Segregated cells. [Interviewer] So even in jail you have to segregate the Negroes from the whites? [Speaker] Yes, they are.