Interview With Assistant Secretary of State Chester Crocker (1986)

apartheid, but many of which have not yet been implemented. - You're the expert, Mr. Crocker, you're the man that gives the advice to the Secretary of State who gives it to the President, etc. What are you telling them now? Are you telling them, for instance, like what William Raspberry, columnist for the Washington Post wrote this morning that the time has run out for the Botha government? - I don't think the time has run out. In fact, we believe that we must soldier on in the effort that we are continuing to try and push the goals that I've just been describing. We don't see it as an alternative. It's all very well and good to adopt certain postures if you will or to call for certain measures, but there are a bit like going to kind of a party where you wake up the next morning and you may have some problems. You may have a hangover. What do you do the next day? We've got to have a continuing ability through our presence there to influence events at the margins, which is all that we can do. - Does the United States have real power to exert on the government of South Africa? - As I said, I think we have influence at the margins. I think we do make a difference. - Only at the margins. - That would be my judgment. We're not talking

about the 51st state of the Union or a little island somewhere off the coast of Florida. We are talking about a place many thousands of miles away that in most respects is highly self-sufficient. So what we're trying to do is to get at those whose minds are open to provide ammunition to those who want to reach the middle ground rather than simply to drive the parties into a kind of intransigence in which we might in fact delay what we're trying to see. - Do you believe that things are better now because of Reagan administration policy and actions? - I'd put it this way. In the first three years or four years or so of the administration, we did see movement on incremental reform. We saw some reform commitments and some implementation of reform that was unprecedented by South African standards limited though it was. In the past 18 to 20 months, we've seen a new situation emerge in South Africa in which Blacks are making it ever more clear that they simply have had enough, that they want to see change and they want to see it now. That has produced months of unrest, months of killings, and therefore a climate of heightened polarization. This creates a new situation for us to deal with. Now what we've done, for example, last fall,

the President signed an executive order which put in place certain limited measures against South Africa's system of apartheid while drawing a clear line and trying not to add to the destruction already in place by targeting its economy. - So you're not contemplating any new, the administration is not, as we speak, is not contemplating any new actions. - Well, the point I would make is that you look at an evolving picture and obviously from time to time you have to take cognizance of a situation as it evolves. As we look at it right now, we have certain measures in place, we have some pressures in place, the Secretary of State, rather the President has appointed an advisory committee that will be reporting to the Secretary of State before the end of this year, and we see the situation as it develops. We're doing all we can at this stage to advance our goals. - Thank you, Mr. Crocker. Robin?