In Black America; Gil Scott-Heron

materials at 4 p.m. You're listening to, in Black America, reflections of the Black experience in American society. You will not be able to stay home, brother. You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out. You will not be able to lose yourself on stag and skimp out for me during commercials because the revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be brought to you by the rocks and four parts without commercial interruptions.

The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon blowing up Google and leading a charge by John Mitchell to roll Abrams and Spyro Agnew to eat hog miles confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary. The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be brought to you by the shape of a war theater and will not start Natalie Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia. The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal. The revolution will not get rid of the nerve. The revolution will not mend the nerve. Gil Scott Heron, musician, poet and novelist, is of a very special breed. He has been at the rhetoric of academia with street talk and at the heartbeat rhythms of jazz and funk. The result is music that, more often than not, moves the spirits and brainwaves as well as defeat. Born in Chicago and raised in Tennessee, Gil Scott Heron spent much of his early adult life in New York City. Having tried and been somewhat successful in many forms of communication,

he has written two novels, The Nigger Factory and Street Talk at 125th and Linux. Gil has been drawn towards music to express his beliefs. He believes that music is one of our natural resources. I'm John Hansen, and this week, our focus is on Gil Scott Heron, in Black America. People have always been into something else. Every time we came along with a record, they won't play that. But we don't try to get it played because of how well it compares to other people's things. We try to get it played because of how important it should be to our community overall. When we did Angel Dust, everybody else was doing disco, but the kids was doing Angel Dust. So I'm saying, who are you playing this for yourself or the kids? Who are you playing for yourself in your own personal taste? Or the taste that you feel will fill a certain need in the community? I think that a lot of people who call themselves community radio and community oriented radio just happen to be a radio station that plays music that is listened to by a particular community. I don't think there's any other connection to it.

So we try to do music that is for the community and then we try to get it to the community with the radio station support and the record company support is possible, but without it the necessary. Let's move out the cell password. But what you want to hear from him for, even don't know how to record, grab him on the

ring. They keep on calling the ring. Gil Scott Heron has been strongly influenced by poet Langston Hughes. His music has not been widely recorded by other artists for reasons that can only be speculated upon, and his music is hard to find, almost, radio stations. Gil Scott is also influenced by black people and their life situations, the past, present and future, and what appears on the front pages of any daily newspaper. He has also been criticized for lambasting former government officials and other obvious paragons of white supremacy, while never pointing and accusing fingering blacks themselves as the sources of their problems. I recently spoke with Gil Scott during a concert tour, and the promotion of his latest album on Aristor Records entitled The Best of Gil Scott Heron. I've been signing it back here since February, when we came down, had an opportunity to play,

but talking to the community about doing some concerts, came up with a paramount date. And we're very pleased to be here. I got a new record and some new folks in my band, so I'm doing all right. Before you're born, really, and how did you make the decision to become a musician? I was born in Chicago and raised in Tennessee. So I guess I really heard, first heard blues music that I appreciated and enjoyed. Later on, moving to New York and going to college, I got the chance to move around the country quite a bit, playing with different bands. And I started to record back in 1970, I was a songwriter at a record company called Fly in Dutchman, and I got a chance to do some recording of my own stuff and have been adding to that ever since. When did you realize that you had a gift for language? Well, I guess I started to write songs and poetry stuff back in high school, but I was 19 when I got my first book published.

So I guess that until that time, I had always suspected that there was the beginning of some talent there, but until I finished the book, until I actually had the discipline that said, to finish the book and take it all the way through the steps of getting it published, then I started to believe that there might be some future in it that I could develop. Did the book do well? No, it didn't. It didn't do a thing. Neither one of the books that we written have turned out very well at all, but they added a great deal to my knowledge of the language and how to handle it. And it helped me with my songwriting, which helped me with my performing. So I have never just seen myself as any one of the other. I have been an artist, and I can take any number of different directions that come from my literary background, and the songs and the music, or just something that I've been playing piano longer than I've been writing. But I've been gaining recognition as a writer longer than I have for my piano player. When did you get that first break as far as being a musician, putting your particular work

on record? I guess when I went to Flying Dutchman, and auditioned for a job as a songwriter by taking some of my songs through there, and I spoke to him in Bob Thiel, and he was also interested in the poetry background of ours, and suggested that while we wait to try and get some people to do the songs, that we do an album of poetry. And so our first album, called Small Talking 125th of Linux, was based on a book of poetry by the same name, came out in 1970, in 1971, pieces of a man with a revolution would not be televised, and Lady Day and John Coltrane, and say the children, and some of those things came out. And from there, we did another album with Flying Dutchman, and one album called Winner in America was Strada East. And since then, we've been with Arista. Is Gilles Scott as radical as he was in the 60s and 70s? That's an interesting question. I always thought to save the children was pretty radical, no, let me put that another way. I have never considered myself radical.

I have considered myself someone who would rather speak of principles than to claim they have them without speaking of them. So if standing up for what you believe in is radical, I guess I've always been radical always will be. Do you think people still perceive being pro-black as anti-white? I have no idea what other people perceive oftentimes. I don't think that they do, and I think that that's what breaks down a lot of communication. If you are concerned about what people will perceive, you should first go and ask them and then decide what you're going to do, otherwise if it's of your own volition and because you believe in it, you do it and then the hell would what they decide. What musicians or writers influenced you? Great deal of both, Langston Hughes as a writer, because Langston Hughes had the same sort of approach to satire that I sometimes believe I have and show on a lot of records. Paul Langston, who had the same sort of touch for comedy and dialogue among black people, John Coltrane, who had a great touch as far as streaming notes together was concerned.

I guess everybody that you hear influences you one way or the other, I like John Coltrane, I don't like Johnny Cash, they have both influenced me. I would like to do more things like Coltrane, I would never, everything influences you. Very few musicians or artists has recreated your particular music. Esther Phillips did LaBelle, your particular sentiments about the passing of Esther Phillips. Esther Phillips was quite an artist for a long time, who had some difficulties that she struggled with throughout the latter part of her life. She was a song stylist, she had a unique and individual voice. When you heard her, you knew if you knew music who it was. Those are the sorts of people who become greater than product, which is what they call you in the record business, they call you product. As though you were cars or as though you were slices of meat or something, here's the new product, like you were software or hardware.

Esther Phillips, because she had such a unique voice and such a unique sound, became an individual and creating something independent like that in a business like ours is not easy to do. So I admire her for that. What are you doing presently, far as musically? I am sitting here talking to you on the radio. You have any new album out? Yeah, the new album is out. It's called The Best of Gil Scott Heron. Hopefully by the time people hear our conversation, they will have heard the record quite a bit. There's a new 12-inch called Riran that concerns itself with the second playing of a B-movie. Second playing of a B-movie. Has it been a difficult time in getting Gil Scott Heron record played on the radio? Since we have formats, you know, everyone's in the B-bop and exciting. Well, you know, like people have always been into something else. Like every time we came along with a record, it won't play that there, it's something else. But we don't try to get it played because of how well it compares to other people's

things. We try to get it played because of how important it should be to our community overall. When we did Angel Dust, everybody else was doing disco, but the kids was doing Angel Dust. So I'm saying, who are you playing this for, yourself or the kids, who are you playing for yourself in your own personal taste, or the taste that you feel will fit a certain need in the community? Like I think that a lot of people who call themselves community radio and community-oriented radio just happen to be a radio station that plays music that is listened to by a particular community. I don't think there's any other connection to it. So we try to do music that is for the community and then we try to get it to the community with the radio station support and the record company support, if possible, but without it if necessary. You've been with Ask the Record for a great number of years. To what do you attribute that longevity to that record company? Just just just just just just playing an old look, I guess. I think that we do our job and nobody ever reads about us in jet doing something we

don't suppose to do or anywhere else. So I'm saying that like I think that the amount of professionalism that we bring, the sales that we bring, the attendance that we generate on tour, and the fact that we are not doing anything that is misrepresented with what the company would like to stand for, I think all that contributes to the fact that we are still on the roster there, even though we may or may not be there any longer. To what do you attribute your longevity in this music industry over the years? Same thing, I saw records, I draw crowds, we sell tickets, like when we are properly publicized and properly exposed, we sell records and we sell concerts. So I think that that establishes your longevity, as long as people want to see you, there are other people who are willing to give them that opportunity. What did it mean to you being a part of the historic march on Washington in 1983? I just felt like one out of a great number of people who had done the things that they

thought were important for that day. I live in Washington, I didn't have to go across country like a whole lot of other people did. So yeah, I didn't have to show that much courage to appear at any of the marches in order to try and generate the interest to make Dr. King's birthday and national holiday, but I was there the night that they had the celebration this past January at Orlando, there was a concert there, 20-20 thousand strong, but I was, I mean that was easy to get to and easy to remember because we weren't playing at the show, but the feeling there, like based on having been struggling specifically for something over a good long period of time, through circumstances when there was very little support and then a lot of support. I mean, and finally having the day declared a national holiday, I think everybody felt very proud of Steve, very happy for him and for themselves.

I believe it was something that was really significant on the level of Jesse Jackson running for president. I think that those two things were both on a par as far as ups for the black community lately. What type of concept do you like to go through in producing an album? So we generally, the best of girls got here is a guess, like some of those are the best, some of those, not necessarily the best, they were the ones that we get the most questions about and most sales are probably the best of all. But what you're trying to do is put ideas together that belong together and styles together, that belong together. The only time you would have an album, the only exception you would have is with an album called the best of girls got here because then you would get different records from the different phases and different styles that we have experimented with a long way. But generally, we're putting our weight behind some sort of overall theme and we like to have those songs all tie into the theme, like secrets was an album, an entire album about

things that a lot of people talk about, but you rarely hear anything about Angel Dust, the working conditions for coal miners, Gary Tyler down in the Angola, Louisiana, the way black people were treated around the 10th of the century in a song like Cain, the double standards and double values of Madison Avenue. I mean, those things, the trickery of showbiz is every song on the album just about it tied in with the word secret, as though they were things that people had heard about, heard what it was about, but nobody ever brought out in the open, so, da-da. All from the endions, who welcome the pilgrims and to the Buffalo's who want to rule a plane, like the Vulture's, the circling beneath the dark clouds, looking for the rain, looking for the rain, just like the city ahead, let's dive on the coastline in a nation, it

just can't stand much more, I like the far ahead, buried beneath the highway, never had a chance to grow on, never had a chance to grow on, and now it's when I, went to America, yes, and all of the hills, I've been killed, I've sent away, yeah, but people know, if you all know, it's better, went to America, and ain't nobody fighting, cause, nobody knows what to say, save your soul, Lord knows from winter and America, the Constitution

of America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in America, never had a chance to grow on, never had a chance to grow on, and now it's when I, went to America, and all of the hills, I've been killed, or betrayed, yeah, but

people know, if people know, it's better, Lord knows it's winter and America, and ain't nobody fighting, cause, nobody knows what to say, save your soul, Lord, from winter and America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in

America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in

America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle for the died in America, I know for peace of paper, I went free society, struggle of the way I come when I remember The truth is that when you write a piece of music, you get very close to it, and you end up liking it with other people doing that. So I like just about everything I've ever produced. Do you think Black entertainers particularly,

well, I can't say Black entertainers, do you see yourself having a debt to the Black community? Well, I think that if community means family, that everybody in the family likes to contribute something positive, I mean, to the family, when you go out and get something and do things for people in your family, it's not like a gift or it's not like a burden, it's something that you enjoy doing. That's what family is. If people in a family, they go out there and they bring them money home to buy groceries and this and this and that. Like we're an artist, and the only thing that we can bring to the community is pieces of art that we feel they would enjoy, like to share and would make them feel more proud of themselves and more aware of themselves. Those are sort of things that we do and we don't look at it as a debt, you know, like household finance, just like that, we look at it as the sort of thing that we should do as members of the community that we're proud to be a part of. What does Guil Scott like to do besides being an artist? We'd love to play the game.

You used to love to shoot the ball, you know, like I played basketball in college and for quite a while, afterwards having played since some boys beat me up back to him and me when I was out there on the court. Some of them youngsters, but my father was a professional soccer player. I've always been very interested in sports. I have a daughter who is four and thinks she's a whole lot more grown than that and even that time's a whole lot more grown than I am. So I have to spend some time with her. I like to create, I think that's a very private concept like sitting around writing is not something that you do in the middle of a cafeteria or in the middle of the freeway. Those are sorts of things that require peace and quiet. So I like to have both of those in my service. We got Robert Gordon, who's been with me now since 1979 on bass, wrote Fast Lane from Moving Target and contributed to every album we've done since 1980. Ron Holloway, Tennis Saxophone, one of the best young saxophones in the country. Anybody who doesn't agree with me,

she's come back stage to talk to me about it. After the set, I'm that confident. Kim Jordan, I used to play with Stacy. I saw on keyboards, Steve Walker, from Chuck Bands, Chuck Brown's group, The Soul Searchers on drums and Greg Gavin from Southeast DC band that we picked him up from. So we got a good band, we got a good crew and we got some people that we really have enjoyed getting the know as producers of the show. But oh yeah, I remember, in this year that we have now declared the year from Shoga and to Reagan, I remember what I said about Reagan. Minute. Actors like an actor. Holly Weird. Actors like a liberal. Actors like General Franco. When he acted like governor of California, then he acted like a Republican. Then he acted like somebody was going to vote for him for president. And now we act like 26% of the registered voters is actually a mandate. We're all actors in this, I suppose.

What is happening is that in the last 20 years America has changed from a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know that when a producer names a tone, the consumer has got to dance the way it is. We used to be a producer, very inflexible at that. And now we are consumers and finding it difficult to understand. Natural resources and minerals will change your world. The Arabs used to be in the third world. They have bought the second world and put a firm down payment on the first one. Controlling your resources will control your world. This country has been surprised by the way the world looks now. They don't know if they want to be Matt Dillon or Bob Dillon. They don't know if they want to be diplomats or continue the same policy of nuclear nightmare diplomacy. John Foster-Dulles ain't nothing but the name of an airport now. The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia.

They want to go back as far as they can, even if it's only as far as last week. Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was the day of our cinema. Heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible moment. The day of the man in the white hat, or the man on the white horse. Or the man who always came to save America at the last moment, especially in B-Movies. And when America found itself having a hard time facing the future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was no longer available, they settled for Ronald Reagan. And it has placed us in a situation that we can only look at, like a B-Movie. He'll scout heroin, physician, poet, and novelist. If you have a comment or would like to purchase a cassette copy of this program, write us the address is in Black America, Longhorn Radio Network,

UT Austin, Austin, Texas, 787-12. For in Black America's technical producer, David Alvarez, I'm John Hanson. Join us next week. You've been listening to, in Black America, reflections of the Black experience in American society, in Black America, is produced and distributed by the Center for Telecommunication Services at UT Austin. And does not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Texas at Austin or this station. A theme song for savorabbling and selling wars go to door. Remember, we're looking for the closest thing we can find to John Wayne. And she's about like kangaroos courtesy of some spaced out mile in Perkins, Oregon, contemporary. And she's like itchy trigger finger. And tall in the saddle and riding off or on into the sunset. For she's like, get off my plane if I sundown.

More so than for she's like, he died with his boots on. Marine tough demand is bull guy tough demand. Cagney tough demand is Hollywood tough demand is cheap steak tough. And Bonson stands for ultimately synthetic selling. A Madison Avenue masterpiece of miracle. This is the Longhorn radio network.