1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-08-06; Part 2 of 6

the pope well i went out and it's right there in your compilation hearings there was one person that you're perhaps involvement in anti tea matter they were digging in a new bentley about watergate investigation and sometime during that time i think and david that you have a caller he seemingly approve the way you and then herself hoarse on the menu that same day he calls john wayne

and variance is the famous quote that i think we are going to hang their hat into it slowly slowly and women confirmation hearings did you discern this and i never did first night that and that was when i was sean and the assistant united states attorneys office that said telephone conversation what was happening to me as far as threatens and that calls for a judgment you know that i am not prepared to make because i don't have all the facts on the the other side was gnawing at least serve what i know now and knowing that in the service of my country i was two hours and hours that charging shelling bombing but i never expected to run into a lot of me in the service of the president in the united states and iran into it

was obvious there's a great variation and an fbi agent well now there's no question about it in my mind because he is the original offer that i made was rescinded on march sixteenth i'll pretty every senator the united states in complete fbi investigative file every time the senate are asking a question that i could not remember ever go to the edge of the three oh two forget the exact information in quote an insert in the record and i can see now that this was very unsettling i believe it was the right thing that i was about of an investigation i thought the fbi didn't terrific job and i even sent a message to the fbi explain why i made a complete fbi

investigative file available to every united states senator to be accompanied by two special agents of the fbi to respond to their questions i can restrain it question the committee deal that will look most thompson can waive that implied question is somewhat like him which ok so why not be so good says these exercises accounts of time and not be subject to the committee room in just a moment senator lowell weicker of connecticut tries to

find out what efforts president nixon made to get information from gray about the watergate investigation public television's coverage of the senate hearings will continue after a pause for a station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs public broadcasting service fb it's

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continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert macneil returning to that hearing sen weicker begins his questioning of l patrick gray oh my goodness at a veteran for this question is absurd comments made it wrong to follow relationship standing friendship prior to nineteen sixty nine when i came to washington it was time you came to serve the french witness to fetch you an iran closer and you're there in my house or i am yours in the social in the social sciences author meeting which we have

listener know certainly no you are and the possessions that you were walking in the administration is more positions that i recommend you form or other physicians about their relationships with the administration there's certainly no youth center worker and i made no request of you and the reason i got into the administration at all three options deny it the labor mightily to even get in the comeback god and serve my country and implement his financial sector afloat it is true however that since matter where they've also seen their true that you know increasing frequency in the senate right now i'd like to review for my portion of the president's statement april thirtieth

nineteen seventy three specifically that question which states until march of this year i remain convinced denials were true and the charges involve a member of the white house falls the comments are made during this period and comments made by my press secretary my behalf of based on information provided to us at the time he made those comments however new information then came to me which persuaded me that there was a real possibility of some of the charges were true and suggesting further there had been an effort to conceal a fastball from the public for new information as a result a march twenty first i personally missing their responsibility for coordinating intensive new entries into the matter in order to

oppose conducting investigations you go directly to me visas my first question to you where he states that on march twenty first he personally assume the responsibility for new immigrants and personally ordered those conducting investigations and all tax report directly to me right here in the salves my first question to you did you ever receive after march twenty first from march twenty first thought a direct hit from the present of the united states relative to these watergate matter which director of inquiry was to what your investigation for producing

no sir the president didn't of only on lots of twenty thirteen list was the typical but i think well known as doctor of women was the fbi investigator where they still involving investigations of water in mark yes because it was due to be action and i took i kind of take it in october i did take it in december get us into the activities that were political and make sure you might say they involve activities of business event and tv best of my knowledge information and believe and i believe that i have exhibits before this committee which indicate follow what i'm saying right now senator like where we were at that time still investigating and use the march twenty first on we'll get a phone conversation with

no order from the president as one who is conducting an investigation to get all types of the reporting directly to me right here what happened in march twenty third phone call from the president once again it was a surprise to me i don't really expect the sea have that quality of the testimony given on march twenty second which in response to a question from us sen byrd i had said the things that you have probably like to be i was talking with our agents and the way the questions were raised by senator there was no other abstract idea that the president called me on march twenty thirteen was in the nature of what the paul asay and i cannot remember his precise words but they're saying no

the beating the years are taking up there and it's very unfair there'll be another day to get back to that are enemies around there'll always be a place for you in the nixon administration and it thanked the president and then i remember distinctly him saying you will recall that that i told you to conduct a thorough aggressive investigation i remember that so distinctly because i have the eerie feeling that this was being said to me that while and i related immediately to the july six telephone conversation i've had with the president in the previous year but the july six telephone conversations are coming from the west coast or <unk> testified to a mistake

you have any understanding is where the march twenty third phone call him and from those i did not know i do not know as others then maybe i don't know that my telephone logs would show on march twenty thirteen we can we can take a look but i do not know my own independent recollection right now but you do recall the nature of the conversations the more about hugh of the election the confirmation hearings having done that those interviews that you remember of our our previous conversation at this i do remember that that i told you to conduct a thorough and aggressive investigation my monologue daily log which is an exhibit before this committee for friday march twenty third nineteen seventy three shows are the one night eleven pm on that day president nixon took bowman spoke to mr gray

that would indicate to me that that telephone conversation was made in washington since there's no reference to go to a little sample many are key biscayne and normally people would make such reforms now like to move along with him to the events more specifically those events which you're telling me of the burning of the files in your office on a political effect i think that's been done into detail in one of the opening for the russian culture that like to move from april twenty two the

afternoon of the twenty six of april and have you recount and the comedic in your own words what transpired in the late afternoon of april twenty six senator like there was after six o'clock in the evening when i was leaving and i believe it would be somewhere between six fifteen and thirty and i was reading up again in the police officer there the tsa security force officer cousins who might say hello to every night we go about changing pleasantly said to me that is called uncertain and you're going right away and i mr peterson said that he had had a call from the attorney general attorney general findings an attorney general findings wanted to meet with us in his office at seven pm

peterson said he was calling from the golf course in was coming in directly from the golf course and that was about the stories and rumors that were on the media circus and i said fine in the pharmacy is also undermine the rhineland went wrong and i went up to the office and had about five minutes to seven i walked over to the attorney general's office i found the main door and i want to what we call an alcove or the these almost directly into his own private office and i can do it in the the secretaries mr peterson yeah

i went back immediately and thirty thousand that made a president of color element is concerned about the reports these files were burned and that we have to meet and make some recommendations the president biden mr peterson mr woodward sat in chairs in front of the attorney general when i told them i had spoken with you i did not say give them that you had to talk with us even though you have for me and said to me you're probably the angriest man in the world a major talking to the press and i said no you're the angriest man in the world living i did not say that you have been given this information to the press but i said i believe that the center the wiper knows all about this because i have spoken to him and then there's the findings hands to peterson's the findings in iowa and into private office of these may not listen findings that

statement for himself and for mr peterson and i do not drink and i just sat there in an overstuffed that leather chair that was the primaries was sitting right right in front of me basically and he said to me it doesn't seem to me that you can continue as acting director of the fbi i said it does seem to me that i can continue is acting director of the fbi because these files i have absolutely nothing that you want to be the men and women of the fbi know i've done this type of this investigation but that i will say that whatever the president with his ability to continue to serve i will serve the english invaders i'm melissa mr kline means then went into his other office and said he was going to talk with the president is abstinence mr peterson was pacing up and down in the office walking back and forth and i remember him distinctly saying that i'm scared

and i certainly while i'm still sitting there in a chair and he said i'm scared because it appears that you and i are expendable and haldeman ehrlichman are not i said you think and it's the first time it even entertaining the idea and he said yes and i guess later research findings came back into the office and sat down in the chair again facing me and said the president wants you to continue serve as acting director and i said find that problem and then all three of those but the office we walked out of the office to get them to move to the morning of the twenty sevens well i don't know it was after eight o'clock and i didn't quite a bit of thinking about this and

i thought i'd better really resigned that this was not a thing to have done and that there was no way in the world that i would be able to explain it to the fbi would take too low so coming into the office at next morning i asked two members of my personal style ceo those two members comments about the ayatollah mall attacks and i said i do feel that i can no longer the mandiant be out there at nighttime i said i quit i want to do elmer call marjorie and my secretary and dictate my resignation i want to be prepared statement to go along with it earlier that morning at about eight o'clock when i first came in it or felt the tobacco my council which does but pauline and i said mom i don't want to talk with you and members of the press corps that i thought this story of the burning of the pile that i feel that i can no longer command the fbi had told him that the

early then they came to medicine my crystals that name the two members of my principles that came back in about ten fifteen in the morning i have asked about lenovo thing everyone over this statement we went over my letter of resignation and i thought was about two heavy acting director has resigned and i can i believe that i felt the attorney general are pretty sure that i totally attorney general i have been looked at my watch to see if there's a thoughtful to have but i'm pretty sure that i told him that i was going to resign we'll set up the meat eases the requisite eleven thirty and my conference room sort of appear before them and tell them and i did i met with them and i told him exactly what had happened and i said mr felch value all the

detail that i feel that i can no longer command the fbi i shook hands and i said goodbye i think it was then at about noon at that i called mr higby i promised to ask him to speak to the president i got this terrific pianist and he said that the president or in mississippi with the senator's dennis i think that was already in a matter of about him that he would have to get to them with my statement to them that i was going to resign that i could no longer command the fbi and that if i tried to do so that would be insurrection in the end of his resignation to be accepted and that was just you know and i believe i

have ms bee to pass by yes i thought who was going to be a twelve a teen pm and i told him at that time that my resignation over at he said let me talk to them that the party down there in mississippi before you send that so and they there was another call it won fifty nine mr libby spoke to me and said please send your resignation over they're expected back at about three o'clock and i believe it was invisible and i tell him i also wanted to issue a statement along with his resignation of

mine and this election is a step in a box a little bit and he said no the white house has been a lot of issue that statement and i said no my my statement is harmless i'm going to issue it and i read it and then he called me back to ninety m homemade weapons and the resignation of incentives taken over which it after your resignation was announced you received any information on iran or any indication that well according to white house and resignation

its array of my legacy of the problem that afternoon about to forty five pm go as i reported kinetic and i think it was in that state of the top of my executive assistant told me that the stories had been carried on the wires to the effect that i had been drawn out he had taken it upon himself to hoot because he had participated in this whole thing with me yet taken it upon himself to issue a year correcting statement attributed to the fbi sources then more than twenty percent april the twenty seventh which marked the date of your resignation or did you but those mistakes to give

him information facts on the role of two were awarded to change i was not given any orders by the president united states or anyone would give the many facts about watergate situation until mr peterson came to me on april sixteenth in the party testified that my statements of money as the other john being a given day to file after march thirty years it's been justified to reporters committee mr gerlach placed in charge of the watergate investigation march thirtieth my question to you is aside from the phone call of a probe of fifty which phone call again having testified before this committee you don't need to worry

those early years he did not i there were calls with mr eckman that they did not involve watergate i know i met with mr erlichman and mr clemens in this verdict means officers regarding a possibility as to whether or not there were sufficient votes to clear my nomination out of committee well i know we discussed at that particular meeting that i would probably be the best man to take the fbi through the hearings before the urban select subcommittee but i recall absolutely no requests of meat for information regarding the conduct of investigation or about the continuance of the investigation other than those that where the reports were going back on the specific identities of the department of justice was asked to inquire into to investigate in connection with the credit activities he interviews mr chaikin i have referenced to

those documents are in their exhibits before this committee and have submitted it's b sounds great the united states navy this year twenty six years of a trial now accustomed to get our orders of superior as nato's the radio news and i said i would say maybe us have an amazing also and i get into these operators to return an overview on june twenty eight was nineteen seventy two that yes sir david nutt told you never

let them see the light of day and so they serve as i just remember that senator thomas this was in a concluding remarks mr damon you essentially have national security implications they are political dynamite and clearly they should not see a lot of that alison was that in charge like again this is not the reason why we do that this isn't elmo executives running executed isn't on you cared about his knowledge corrects what did you think of the source of that apartment was well as i

testified i can't really say it came from the president that i can say to senator tom and the one thing i don't like to say in the course of the conversation in the attorney general's little little private office when he was sitting there apprehending talk with the president mr klein jeans and burning these files there was any attempt of the cover up of the white house and i told him i said that i clearly got instructions i thought to earn those powers and i burned them and that's going to be my festival you're shown the names of our became pregnant when standing right there in the presence of a top assistant to use only right thing for the president personally was only became the tv in the united states it's important as it were tuition might make that assumption but senator thomas unfairness and decency and honestly i got to say why

i just can't testify under oath that the president ordered them to do this and i understand that that is something that there are no no new animated when you that our weekly commander years only came to the naval operations that's correct and enchanted pinpointing the united states and the game live fire questions and i that's correct sir how brave new and some statement stating the role lee nineteen hundred and sixty eight but the way of his subordinates that was kept in the way his stripes as command and he said yes sir they're in the wal mart because i was writing in terms of the divisiveness and polarization that it set upon our country and it seemed to me that he was saying that he was very idealistic flowering letter

letters interviews and evidence before the subcommittee that in that letter i say yes that's right what made you think then that his subordinates can take advantage of the positions that will be in place that was very very early in the game and i didn't know any of those subordinates but i knew that sometimes that this would have occurred in the area of white house politics and i was merely telling him nothing specific and mime separate from those who are going to be to support that was a foreboding or new a broad front that is part of us mission in nineteen sixty eight what made you abandon that mission in nineteen seventy two without them you so ramit and i give those instructions and tv at the united states

i had at their experience in the administration and i knew that those men did give orders i knew that that used to come over and do that sort of like they used to do it and it felt like you know a telephone call operated by the united states caught you and i do the six nineteen hundred and said i need to congratulate you on there were fbi done that hijack an airplane in california as it has surfaced before memo senator tom ford you took advantage of that opportunity have believed to relate to the president the united states europe and churn in the head of some of the operations of its a warrant those out now july thirty nineteen hundred and said to sun home on the walls deputy director of the cia

had somewhat different than the conversation to have been president in your testimony that you presented as the bride now as humans but why and reading the cia an investigation is at the center of town we have to say that i've talked with general walters the twenty thirteen they met with me and i did not have any other contact with a month ago to about a fifth i believe what i said and it was that there were pre occupation with his inability to write a letter saying it was cia handlers and singer gary opens the dollar became a considerable importance luckily no dental office had to say about the

flow of conversation about to a conversation that the president and sql in new differently that allow quote new his recommendation they had replied case that's what we do is not until his case did not being covered and would leave quite high get rid of the people that when you go i have no recollection of memory because my recollection of my message to the president my recollection is that it was a high reva question with the president it was a surprise to me that the president's going back so quickly after i had spoken with mr mcgregor how it was with some

fear and trepidation i might add that i really literally blurted out to the president as the president i have something that i want to speak for my recollection of that conversation is quite different that conversation yes he's that's his testimony the conversation and he goes yeah with all approved the immortal youth my work and wouldn't even that the president had it wasn't iq

by using whether or not the cia and christian or not in the people that the fbi which has an eye you have reference to president asked me i would've imagined still smarting over twenty thousand is a fan of the cancellation of the money that we read further master of gentle the president said that the macro then i should get rid of whoever's involved last great reply that was his recommendation that conversation today senator talent seven

samurais i don't believe were that far apart but i believe that he's taken other things that we talk about that time with them in the proper context the president then as metaphor and what they said my view than the same as his president of the well by ray later that they may have also mean and repeatedly conversation in st louis and who exactly like instead of my conversation with the president by saying that lobbyists and i feel a little question about the fact that i mentioned the federal law but certainly shared my views i did not call me an idol debuted of this there were very few people who really move this conversation because i'm interested in a different plane you and john

walters testimony act at this and said to the daily no question about it on evidence of this committee has had a complicated in the united states is that of john wayne and you and general is that you think the jewel conversations with the president on june six nineteen seventy two which evasion they don't notice that the white house may have engaged in obstructing justice in terms of the obstruction of justice but i certainly think that was adequate to put him on notice to the white members of the white house that were using the fbi and the cia you think an adequate and the reasonable and prudent land on the basis of the wanted to even at that

time would have been learned as defamation league's been something improper or illegal i do because i like that the president asked me some questions and for two weeks thereafter i was on the twelfth and again on the twenty eight i asked him a lot as the president and when i had nothing i began to feel that a journalist and i were lobbyists that we had nothing here it is true that i must say that it will already with some fear and trepidation because i didn't have all the specifics i had that augurs continued re iteration that it was directed to write such a letter that maybe he would resign and we discuss his resignation and we i hadn't mentioned that already said this there might be one thing

i believe you maybe you make it in law as some wanted to burn paper is less christmas christmas celebration in that period and they did you might get them out to the system attorney general henry peterson on april sixteenth of this year in my arms need to make any elegant island with the fabrication of fault that's florida senator like her i testified yesterday to volunteer to get damaging to win outright vote in the senate likely this it now on to your ship captain have admitting to go for it you'd think this committee should believe you now rather than

they didn't even used to own fortune of sitting up there to testify under oath and knowing full well the substance of my testimony critical importance to that you have you know an inventive chord thank you mr jennings but mr gray let's go back to that meeting is the first of june twenty one nice ad you money in utah as a person is a good person the state is weak mr martinez mexican money we live undercover

cia assets results and then he mentions the meeting agreement between the oval i have not read that dream and yet all i said to him i understand this is what's going to make sense why i recommend it also said get over it i think you're awesome if he can do that he had previously had a meeting with stalin was there or was it because i have no recollection of memory and that

and i was outraged when i read this i think it was in may of this year and he never did tell you what he told committee here not long ago with the whole i actually gave him an instructional would to you he didn't tell me i remember him telling me reading or else then why do you think the john walters was there after you finish a meeting he knew what he knew what was your impression is to his reason that they

know it they see a mess oh yes at any way that they did he call you on the phone or come to human being and so does the grey own i've had my people here in the cia go all their records and files and we can't find any covert operations in mexico along those lines that's what i was

thinking he couldn't do anything else you too it was i

think so that he reached out to you on another occasion these phone calls he had with john dean absolutely not that's right her suggestions do something about this and particularly at the team's request of the cia from john wall if he wins

luckily going to hear an armenian few minutes ago about the fbi investigation of a bombing raid made it i think those accusations are hints of suggestions along the way the fbi conducted a somewhat less than full investigation of the watergate know just out at the beginning and then reacting exactly what they did in the first place who are in this day i asked them to be americans it's been

justified we were going to do so the initial investigations your people didn't know that this was a case in which the fbi had jurisdiction sorry or something patients you're working on those there were

twenty seven thousands of relief workers take that take this investigation has been thorough investigation you know in previous question thirty years ago this are obama's qualities a top professional people are attracted to the us and selling were prevented from doing it and i

do remember your answer my question is who were the top professional people in charge of this investigation i would say that this is certainly the case patients on

tuesdays we're investigating that is true anybody else there's no money macy's is right members of the

cia did any of the other people in charge of this investigation in the fbi to give any instructions to multinational investigation those days as this is john berry works pacino reading it in the newspapers is that it says that

and this matter of sichuan is ordinarily as the search warrants on their own or do they receive instructions from over just a particular us attorney in charge of it i think that experience but i think it's very important i can't believe it how many people in the fbi interview in the committee to reelect

president and what you know i think it was sixty two president and i forgot one thing testimony you just thought that this was one of the most extensive investigations in history the fbi is not correct that is that there are now one final question with so and i really believe you know i certainly no leaks farley of the auto show michelle investigation why don't you think those living on libyan hot many times what it means to people ask a question

ask the question one was right put in another way perhaps the reason why it didn't lead beyond that those two is because there was a massive cover up involved i'm talking about telling the truth it's been and what is sacred this has a

lot of things that the seventy say that no one to suspicious about their sister papers would be received well i'm wondering about that so the protection of the pentagon papers i thought there it is national security i will leave it at that he's leaving so you

knew he was an individual you're looking for a lot of talk about the fact that his check yet to discover that all the effects were actually all right as i said