1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-18; Part 3 of 5

as bell instructions a couple of quick questions for you mentioned listed on that one was the only one of us and it can only work i didn't when his wife told me that because it's a personal problem ebay but she wouldn't issues that she would make it and the husband would make the paper and i said when she salutes at his instruction to a man with the clock to follow procedure but you have no notion that satisfied

yes i know that he was one of the sentences they roll up sleeves and innovative stuff you mentioned the coffee on washington whether the league the thing and this was a confidentiality and become strictly confidential and of course i had agreement was a comet with soviet withdrawal and the question we have in the mystical view of audience will eliminate lucinda very few cities in washington time thank you

you're going to play you can include new american family them anyway because i know anything i do have a question when did you begin getting suspicious about those who are caught i would say with a second call or because of the man's to continue sending money the urgency where first conversation is a lot of a lot of them and one when she first thought it was a request and then it became the championship when we got to get this in a now well i always thought of and seventy five thousand one hundred people who went to a

person face to face not all system changes were introduced with distribution money and the distributions of the mining bust newspaper publicity etc but basically in this particular about it the manner in which she was putting increasing everything you know it became obvious that that was a much larger than anyone than the original loan request i have agreed to a seventy five thousand one hundred distribution with the witness a comeback and he had probably and i'm sure that it was a more you know it was something that at the bottom of the four hundred thousand dollars and still can't figure it does yeah disgust and whether demand for always increasing and to you at least always excessive notion of soul now that served a gurney has satisfied his curiosity we're going to pause reflect public television's coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after this

fall for station identification on a good coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs of public broadcasting service the pope fb to pay off

but it's been crazy

and in fact continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities it again correspondent jim lehrer as we go back to the caucus room senator challenge is asking the questions the early in nineteen eleven nineteen seventy three and the nineteen seventy two that we've done that some of the time that i didn't see the video a living in el nino cycle commonly of state you working now when you've got loose this distribution of mining ceased to be a humanitarian effort thank you

these many of them me too at that point i don't think anyone who's made with those situations such that i was being watched and

said yes you never made a determination has to be paid for these individual personally deliver that that's all to make a determination as to specific about what we can do you know did you have any dealings with anyone else except those to come back and live in my conversations in any contact with the combative yet in his party's almost like if you had any assumptions used to it was coming from all right that's

right now unfortunately kill <unk> there was a considerable on a person at that time eisenhower was ten thousand dollars you won't have any idea what that particular song whether you live in la thank you jim as usual to play the

piano player the world now i receive my assignments a pleasure i don't know the assignment was an assignment was the

notion of audience here at the white house that really gave me an assignment that was the coffee not talking not just about anything anything no other duties no other intelligence activity of investigative work that i understand it was mr coffee and hope not necessarily redundant to never received any instructions on watergate or anything else after mr edmonds column come back except that which exist for corrections your conduct any investigative work with the white house or crp sometime other than those watergate a jury notion that terrorism

investigations that i was assigned given the assignment by mr mccourt finally received the assignment but i have no knowledge what so whether or not anyone else other than isis but there were other implications this audio at restrictions in the nation juvenile court for this at the notion that no lady before that notion of one woman named for a few minutes it or not the court of mr george george took an accounting as a

finance finance oranges think of it interviews himself as an assortment of items that business elite then opposition of general counsel committee reluctant presenter of you know i don't i was told it was an ego that council india finance division of the organization at any idea why interviews himself as mr george soros you know who is responsible yeah

right i had a conversation with a conversation with us to a comic book or an elaboration near the transcript of your previous testimony on page seventy two most life like that indicates that it was your thought mr erlichman was responsible for you being originally yes he intervened massively for the position with the original contact to me to take his assignment was to go organizer subsequently the meeting was a range where i would be interviewed about the job it was that happened to acceptance of me it isn't so if you are an actor it was a

rebellion that might come from time to time of an insight and that it wasn't a trial basis to see alan moore story you mentioned that there would be some of the summer some would be political figures of the republican party a democratic party that would be a background some persons who maybe don't want to become better visit his tomb but since libby sought purple appointment positions within the government investigations the way of public bureau services somebody that's right but because of it that's

right the name names of people that you are in the book and i wanted investigate that you later undertake such investigation you tell us something about what you owe me let me say this was chaired by understanding that the us was will once again return just one another care act out or so we'll abbreviate as an artist while understandably pursue that aspect of it like this american pie or for what purpose i have as you clear understanding that one was the one who finally passed honorable was that also your impression that mr erlichman was the one who's that and directed your assignment responsibilities and that mr caulfield simply carried out those instructions on that sign response i was

that was very popular and it worked for me that was the program director at this time it is that in a general way responsibilities and then you'll get your assignments from time to time you're under the impression that only one was the final authority and disrespected you want or drug use oh sure as genocide

he really is no question i don't know ceiling deadline i'm renee montagne oh man for

whatever reason i don't say this to the genesee that i think it is it's very much within the category to show that actions taken by us about a deadly unusual activity at all in relation to other assignments which you've given me and i'm aware of that tennessee as workers as the committee on that and i didn't want any way too it is distinguished gentleman was admired we don't get along with his hearing will still be a nagging sense that no

less so by the us let's go i'll just come in for the final reading this money and i made it as a model mr chairman questions and

i will not pursue the line of questioning which has been the subject of the battle here i do is they are asked mr marsalis again i want to ask you at what point did you feel you seriously that the director they might be subject to question as to its legality the second well you indicated in your testimony that day in your initial contacts you had gone to mr kerry and then to mr ryan for the purpose of delivering attorneys' fees to them and that they had turned you down the ocean breaker of a very abruptly leaves on

instructions from mr kay homage to combat didn't this it trigger some kind of curiosity a concern in your mind than what you are actually launching by way of an operation might get it's something i really wanted to do in a communications or contacts did you discuss said you any concern that you might have had with mr fonda actor when these two attorneys defended am sure what what went into discussions on a whole we have a problem there is seventy five thousand dollars i didn't go back to it and having

you down with respect to the nature of your identity now then subsequently this when you deliver the money to mr bittman mandate then he wanted to return the money didn't get the fact also had two possible concern on your part as to the legality of your best in activity no problem you've been infected for a long time why did you that question the technique that i knew every of this money you have the money

that was that's that was my own choice and not widely used to set this method because was to combine and requested that it lives with utmost confidence without involving anyone and this is after the caddy well it would have been outside the sphere of discretion is working to return attorney's office and just get deliver twenty five thousand dollars that went through his request instructions now you're you perform another sentence for the white house lucia under the direction of his party you know should i have any sense of that would you say you want to do in the course of nineteen seventy one forms of you i would i would get served thirty five thirty a

luxury that this time and i didn't write about innovation and how many sandy won the nineteen seventy two bobby and we have made back them as the camo why doing for the white house may get by the federal government and zeoli took the assignment was my request that was my ambition to go with an attorney for the simple reason that the job and seventy two to be a possibility of a much less time than i am who agreed with you us through that method of pain and what discussions that you have with him with respect to the arrangement we're buying would be paid by the government of disgust with comments on the planet so why did you discuss it with mr cohn that when you had previously discussed her employment with mastercard and he had

approved yes and you see and you don't have to come back well when you went to rome back in that the choice was there for you to suggest that they want not when we initially entered the negotiations with the statement it was stated his mind is that that idea go on a lot of uncertainty for what it may sound strange to you that you form of ritual for the government and for the white house and being laid by a private individual i didn't consider myself working for the government was a lot of hype it was i just had the police department of an agency and i want to go to the private sector i went to performing functions more mystical thing that we're showing nature and government of an angel why i conduct the government to

investigations of why you not saying to me that i want to perform and many of them into the white house well then are you in effect telling me that the assignments which you conduct were not governmental in nature and not beating with the white house and i think and his team of governmental and then usually at this point well known to understand what their functions of government are i can get the

girl investigations related to a lot of that might have been assigned to me in my determination of governmental functions that they had to do official government agencies or what the major those functions were going and they were telling the nature of god background investigations of prisons possibly coming into government or being contemplated of her appointment allegations of the various types of that nature that could be construed that if someone was or persons coming into work that would write into the white house over right as i and his dad mike simon and then when all those functions be officially major dealing with their white house operations warehouse operations years

then we didn't get this trigger some concern about in your minds to live in new orleans and the pirate hero to perform these particular functions but the name of them a candidate wins the mayor did you ever asked anyone to not put you on a federal level but to put you on a private label would you suggest is to restrain there's been resistance during a lunch and recess the senator settle that question of ground rules for questioning mr ely so it's as other writers about pursuit is limited and where in the white house ordered investigations done by mr your last words

it's been nice but any discrimination and those questions in this version of simon

says you know you were an accessory mr wessel it's yes i would like to comment or quaker testimony may twenty third floor tuesday before this committee the pay

to play at the time david question we're human beings from member station kuow i was thinking as finding about

overcoming to believe that it might have been an ongoing basis i don't really consider myself either committing a crime in that sense i was on the payroll or have no intent of that time would you like and then use this as an occasion to change your testimony or mentally for but just to explain a bit you want to do and this is widely perceived as the cooler and request in january of nineteen seventy three and in fact the latest record the following message you as a longtime knows we provide rehabilitation job again here

that's right it was rewarding was that at that time as the question was not my mind connected with this couple which means

you know i mean and in my view it is not my intention of the specifics of each investigation but rather to try and counter was your job though staff sgt i'm not mistaken

well if you have a salary from a nineteen sixty nine december of nineteen seventy two in july nineteen sixty nine july nineteen sixty nine december nineteen seventy to nineteen seventy two you pay twenty two thousand dollars per year and they're doing it expenses so somewhere in the neighborhood of twelve thousand dollars per year in addition to the twenty two thousand are so desperate and this was to come back for her annual inspections with the exception of the many

defendants and you know there was a nurse you're welcome the investigations ms orenstein investigations we're not intended to de gaulle question of all facets of the personal lives

of even elements question sir allegations that drinking habits of domestic problems as your personal social activities he's both these background checks is or any other let me ask you the question is are any of the general category which you have assigned to these veterans got that were given by various

other individuals corporations or organizations in the allegations concerning political figures trying to get the nature of the investigation and i think we jumped off a massive problem drinking habits personal social activities as sexual habits isn't any other is there any other type of activity which was investigated for any cooperation over the company allegation and the degree of the investigation but it wasn't a complete investigation than any one person with those titles involved was an allegation of what it might be and i might just get my investigations of that particular category categorizing general way those

individuals or corporations that were investigated were there potential political opponents of the president are so invested our work were other political figures as sy intentional political opponents of the president invested they probably years and one of the individuals and in this category where they entirely background checks prior to him or for some other reason we try to avoid that and some of these results of an allegation in a newspaper or something at that time if you ever follow her investigations one i think is i have to set up that i would report directly over both the

people of la if you any time you have any kind of conduct any electronic surveillance on any individual other informal dot org were investigations or were their investigations intended to develop lists of contributors to political candidates not how we do we kind of olive counsel political money what you investigate involved in five years i will be given a maintenance in a manner that go into the lives of princes those

of a five year sentence the rest of the law analyst at eye suffering from the spot for instance get a list of what are the senate that would begin and fellow officers i might begin the list visitors alike and i don't know a part of what the public records of the available they would give me an unusually they filed by medicaid to consult the times and that's what the tribunal is depending on the state and how much of this is still the man so actually but now let's get back to the individual that you investigated how as a

possible how's it possible to get in the matters of domestic problems and drinking habits and social activities and sexual activity through the matter of public record yet the allegation forty years when i've received investigation that was an allegation of a person a drinking allegation when i take i would then develop that lead by ear a really what the allegation was going in the area and it was just like my knowledge it's sold seven years and i would about whether it'll happen a lot a very high percentage of these allegations will force a lot of minor leagues by interviewing of art and his patrons one of the time that means a colorless hotel hotel how those type of people almost thought so in this particular instance the information that was not necessarily a matter of public record that have been a matter of personal or whatever we've now

got cancelled political contributors we have actual political opponents of president we have other political types what other types of individuals that you investigated and category one might be members of the of a political family and my son or nephew was something that i that's an allegation of some possible misconduct and i would go on to see whether or not it was true and that development manager in my ear and my record and i would like to be done by going into the area possibly making my own observations interviewing people out there might be familiar with the years circumstances surrounding the time and the habits of center also there are many many instances another person sitting there would be a probably a city loses the white house the political affiliations that would be the

registration records would be concerned about a lot more than the public records for the registration on a registration up prior to coming in on any other categories that hughes movies were already an important to philosophy and file so my investigations are hanging out so going over the problems with dissident groups within the picketing at a white house and relatively i've learned from my experience in the police department of my follow up on that with that gradually phased out so it's not letting them yes peace is there anything else i don't want to cut you off many ways just as the general question either as to the type of individual or group being investigated by a major investigations or anything else you feel you would like out of this committee and this time on this subject matter went out and i repeat without getting into

this was that this time without further recollection i think that everyone covered china the movie version in fact watergate committee this morning was just another and really a series of activities that libby turns her attentions of those and other initiatives of investigation changed there wasn't anything that was particularly unusual ms simon yeah well that's an excellent source of an official

when you feel that the normal agencies of law enforcement in this country will probably capable of handling any memories that affected safely well being present united states or your shirt undoubtedly and that it was in the words of a normal agencies could have accomplished their job without the activities that you can imagine so your activities were not could not return protecting the president united states that notion would be fair to say that you've gotten for the direction of the white house allegations of the initial information with

us on this and the activities conducted over this three year career or not open where that i'm talking about europe on my investigations into most discreet confidential manner that i know that the information which useless was not the type of information that you care to write that that tractor that should appear in public prayer thank you i don't like this is a question are you indicating even possibly matters did come to the public attention that were based on your investigation as possible i repeat my question the information that you turned over records i would

say was that the national security major a major domestic security major motion there would be a bigger political of a political nature culture and our other assignments which were of a different nature which will win out of that i have a question this week and anyway it was wonderful sense of your influences but i must confess that a long time ago i lost my sense of humor and the activities we use

today today's mortgage opens tomorrow i would only after this question try an appropriately find descriptions you gave to me normally is right now yesterday were imprisoned is imprisoned sheet that barker and presumably flow and i think we're seeing here is great question

were you really now he's backing the peace but sometimes both thank you detainees refunds are

that we have agreed with both counsel for the minority and majority that we will render ourselves available to solder that's a huge day of my information is that you're trying to cooperate with the committee is director us it before john mitchell is key aide takes the stand we're going to take a short break public television's coverage of the senate hearings will continue after a brief pause for station identification on a bridge to coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs and public broadcasting service the pittsburgh to pay

to pay the

point from washington and pike

continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert mcneill us will resume a replay of the hearings former nixon campaign did frederick the room is about the this war was a request as well do you think your city thank you politically members of the

committee then our has been a substantial arm up and washington dc first working on the transition of administrations there is a special consultant and since january nineteen seventy to our services special assistant on the committee to reelect democratic national committee headquarters have been broken into on june seventeen nineteen seventy two shortly after i didn't know of the existence of a proposal to conduct political espionage that electronic surveillance a lot of this plan at a meeting that ended in late march nineteen seventy three and this is going to discuss that radioactivity guess that one does not improve in the present

and i have no personal knowledge its approval by you after the watergate arrest and subsequent june seventeen nineteen seventy two my knowledge of involvement in greek i learned from the garden lady on june twenty that he had an official of the committee that he an official of the committee had in fact been involved in asheville i later said in a major investment group and others of which the protector story he had evolved was discussed and i joined in a cover at least by acquiescence then our recipients are relatively recent days which the various terms of thought going to distribute a number of persons the satisfaction of commitment made by others to the defendants in the watergate crime and fully aware now

what i've given was wrong both ethically legally thirty seven it is difficult to recreate in the union and even ones on editor at a time of stress but when this was transpiring had no intent to violate the law and motivate you saw me about my concerns of the presidential campaign in which we're engaged i'm going to live for cooperation to the best and the ability in recollection that this committee and in preparation for the hearing furthermore i have and will continue to fully cooperate with the watergate prosecutor's the federal rangers are going to use my parents dread answering any questions you may have do it now the

painting fb