New Dimensions; Brain/Mind; Part 4

<v Speaker>[Song: The Wings That Fly Us Home by John Denver] <v Michael Toms>Singing of wings to fly us home and talking about future visions with

<v Michael Toms>Marilyn Ferguson of Brain/Mind Bulletin. <v Michael Toms>I want to remind you that New Dimensions is having a benefit, a benefit to support <v Michael Toms>this kind of radio and this kind of programing. <v Michael Toms>If you'd like more information about Three Jewels in the Lotus II, which is happening on <v Michael Toms>Saturday, May 12th at Masonic Auditorium here in San Francisco, you <v Michael Toms>can write to New Dimensions Foundation. <v Michael Toms>The address is 267 State Street, San Francisco, <v Michael Toms>9 4 1 1 4. <v Michael Toms>That address, again, for information about Three Jewels in the Lotus II is 267. <v Michael Toms>State Street, San Francisco, 9 4 1 1 4. <v Michael Toms>Or you can call us during normal business hours at 621-1126, 621-1126. <v Michael Toms>Also, we'll be happy to send you a radio calendar of upcoming programs if you'd like to <v Michael Toms>write us or call us as well. So feel free to do that. <v Michael Toms>Marilyn, I'd like to kind of enter the possibility, the possibility playpen <v Michael Toms>for a moment and talk about some of the possibilities that could happen

<v Michael Toms>in the next 5 to 10 years. What are some of the things that are coming down the pike that <v Michael Toms>you see? <v Marilyn Ferguson>Okay. Let me just sort of take the areas that I'm covering in the book one by one. <v Marilyn Ferguson>Medicine, I would say in the- in the area of health care for one, <v Marilyn Ferguson>moving more and more openly into the kinds of ideas we've been talking about into the new <v Marilyn Ferguson>paradigm. Medicine has gotten establishment <v Marilyn Ferguson>support for these ideas very rapidly and very <v Marilyn Ferguson>distinguished institutions are interested in holistic approaches, alternative approaches, <v Marilyn Ferguson>paranormal healing, self-care and so on. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And this is the rediest part of the country. <v Marilyn Ferguson>In terms of education, very much slower, because it's <v Marilyn Ferguson>a very large, unresponsive bureaucracy that doesn't basically deal with consumers in <v Marilyn Ferguson>this. You can't take your business elsewhere, and it's very hard to do it yourself. <v Marilyn Ferguson>But there are linking networks now if people with an education and

<v Marilyn Ferguson>some- some very rapid movement has been taking place just in the last few months, I think <v Marilyn Ferguson>in terms of networks. And I believe that what's going to happen is that either public <v Marilyn Ferguson>education is going to respond with some <v Marilyn Ferguson>changes, major changes in in terms <v Marilyn Ferguson>of both teaching skills and improving self-image and being <v Marilyn Ferguson>more humanistic or people increasingly willing to take their business elsewhere, however <v Marilyn Ferguson>desperate they are if it means getting voucher systems in. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And there's a lot of oil all across the political spectrum. <v Marilyn Ferguson>I think there is strong sympathy for the voucher idea simply <v Marilyn Ferguson>because the schools aren't doing anything for anybody. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And so there's that possibility. <v Marilyn Ferguson>I think in terms of politics, what's happening is very interesting. <v Marilyn Ferguson>Power is shifting to the individual and to groups of individuals and to networks, <v Marilyn Ferguson>and that politicians are just beginning to be aware

<v Marilyn Ferguson>of the fact that there are no blocs anymore. <v Marilyn Ferguson>You know, you can't- nobody is speaking for the votes of large numbers of people, not <v Marilyn Ferguson>even union leaders. And that as autonomy is <v Marilyn Ferguson>taking place in, you know, in it and in individuals, as they're finding their own power, <v Marilyn Ferguson>they are willing to link again provisionally in groups and networks and <v Marilyn Ferguson>in self-help organizations and so on. <v Marilyn Ferguson>Would that have an impact on but that it's a whole different <v Marilyn Ferguson>ballgame. And I think we'll see more and more of that. <v Marilyn Ferguson>It just much less breaking along typical political lines <v Marilyn Ferguson>that there is a position that I call radical center, neither left nor right, <v Marilyn Ferguson>and that more and more really where politicians are taking <v Marilyn Ferguson>that place. It's like it's not middle of the road. <v Marilyn Ferguson>It's a view of the whole road. It's attempting to integrate the best of what in the past <v Marilyn Ferguson>has been left and right. Sort of like I mean, I used to think <v Marilyn Ferguson>when I we go into the polls, if only the Republicans

<v Marilyn Ferguson>had more compassion and the Democrats had more sense, [laughter] you know, like- <v Marilyn Ferguson>whatever the party lines were at that time, it was- one was the idea of <v Marilyn Ferguson>in politics, well, all we have to do is come up with a good program or we're going to <v Marilyn Ferguson>solve all our problems. The other was now we're gonna let people fend for themselves. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And what works is somewhere, somewhere transcending all of that <v Marilyn Ferguson>big imposed programs and reforms don't work. <v Marilyn Ferguson>I think that we're all coming to recognize that change has to happen <v Marilyn Ferguson>in individuals, in personal relationships and in communities. <v Marilyn Ferguson>It has to happen at grassroots level or it doesn't happen. <v Marilyn Ferguson>But we also have to take responsibility for each of us as- Dostoyevsky <v Marilyn Ferguson>said once that each of us is responsible to every- everyone else for everything. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And I think that's part of what we're we're realizing. <v Marilyn Ferguson>In business, I see a lot happening. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And I'm sure you're aware of this because it's some of the interviews that you've done. <v Marilyn Ferguson>There is a rise in entrepreneurship, new ways of doing business in corporations

<v Marilyn Ferguson>concerned with change that happens to employees, <v Marilyn Ferguson>that it's not no longer just to to to earn more money. <v Marilyn Ferguson>Well, it's OK to do these nice humanistic things because it will help productivity. <v Marilyn Ferguson>But there is an increasing concern in the past that people in management, as they come in <v Marilyn Ferguson>in in touch with their own centers of caring what happens to the people who work with <v Marilyn Ferguson>them. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And I think also people are finding Toynbee, we talked about the ethio realization <v Marilyn Ferguson>of of values that might happen someday. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And I think that the country is undergoing that. <v Marilyn Ferguson>That we found that the material things are very limited in how much joy <v Marilyn Ferguson>and reward they can ultimately give us. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And recent polls have shown that the people in general, you know, the public is saying <v Marilyn Ferguson>they want their children to be to grow up looking for something other than <v Marilyn Ferguson>just material success, that there are things that they now consider to be more important. <v Marilyn Ferguson>So there is that popular shift happening in terms of what we consider important in our <v Marilyn Ferguson>consumption patterns. Certainly that's changing, not just voluntary

<v Marilyn Ferguson>simplicity, not just the ecologically sound <v Marilyn Ferguson>thing, but just somehow the attitude we take into the marketplace <v Marilyn Ferguson>is changing. And that's an <v Marilyn Ferguson>important part of what's going on. <v Marilyn Ferguson>The- in terms of the spiritual life of people, in terms of organized religion. <v Marilyn Ferguson>I think organized religion is basically going down the tubes, <v Marilyn Ferguson>not only losing membership, but losing even within a clergy, <v Marilyn Ferguson>even within people who are leaders in organized religion. <v Marilyn Ferguson>There is a sense of maybe this isn't what we should be doing, that religion should become <v Marilyn Ferguson>a more interior thing and that the churches, I think, will increasingly have as their <v Marilyn Ferguson>roles maybe commute- community- creating a community rather than <v Marilyn Ferguson>dispensing spiritual wisdom. Because as people begin finding <v Marilyn Ferguson>some kind of inner authority, like the thing that Meister Eckhart was- was stripped of <v Marilyn Ferguson>his ecclesiastical titles for hundreds of years ago, saying

<v Marilyn Ferguson>that there is a God within. <v Marilyn Ferguson>This- this is the direction it's going. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And there- I think the most authoritarian of churches, the Roman <v Marilyn Ferguson>Catholic Church has experienced a tremendous <v Marilyn Ferguson>revolt from- from the rank and file saying, no, <v Marilyn Ferguson>no, we won't be told anymore. I think the whole whole Seminary of Berkeley <v Marilyn Ferguson>rose up and- and objected to the pope about his position on the <v Marilyn Ferguson>women in the clergy and so on. <v Marilyn Ferguson>So that there I think what's happening is that <v Marilyn Ferguson>spirituality is becoming part of everyday life. <v Marilyn Ferguson>It's like the sacred and the profane are, in a sense, fuzing. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And in terms of relationships, which is kind of the last frontier <v Marilyn Ferguson>of change and the most painful, that's the one that people <v Marilyn Ferguson>are still working out forms for.

<v Marilyn Ferguson>There isn't anything in the society that is working that has been working <v Marilyn Ferguson>in terms of how we are going to deal with relationships in a time of gr- personal <v Marilyn Ferguson>paradigm shifts and- and in great social change and mobility <v Marilyn Ferguson>and- and so on. And so that's- that's an area in which I <v Marilyn Ferguson>suspect what will happen there is that people are going to work out their own- their own <v Marilyn Ferguson>paths there. And that you can have- it's a little easier <v Marilyn Ferguson>to see how maybe they're holistic vision of medical care would work. <v Marilyn Ferguson>Holistic approaches to education. <v Marilyn Ferguson>The key, I think, in relationships is that people are seeking <v Marilyn Ferguson>relationships in which they can express their autonomy and also connection at the <v Marilyn Ferguson>same time. And that gets very tricky, very paradoxical. <v Speaker>[Song: Angel by Buffy Sainte-Marie]

<v Speaker>[Song: Angel by Buffy Sainte-Marie]

<v Michael Toms>Well, it's always nice to hear Buffy. That's a beautiful, beautiful song called Angel

<v Michael Toms>by Buffy Sainte-Marie. <v Michael Toms>We're talking with Marilyn Ferguson, the editor and publisher of Brain/Mind Bulletin. <v Michael Toms>And perhaps in these closing minutes of the program, Marilyn, I'd like <v Michael Toms>to ask you what insights, what recommendations you might have for <v Michael Toms>those people out there who are listening to get more in touch themselves with <v Michael Toms>the kinds of changes that you're talking about, the kinds of possibilities that you're <v Michael Toms>talking about? How can each of us become more a part of this? <v Michael Toms>How can we integrate it into our own lives? <v Marilyn Ferguson>Well, um, one of- one resources is, uh- somebody <v Marilyn Ferguson>called it bibliotherapy, reading [laughter]. <v Marilyn Ferguson>Which is kind of a bias my mine [laughter]. <v Marilyn Ferguson>But, there are, I think- I'm sure that most <v Marilyn Ferguson>of your listeners are in tune with with these ideas if they're regular listeners. <v Marilyn Ferguson>But for those who have a lot more exploring to do, there are some, I <v Marilyn Ferguson>think, marvelous books now reaching out,

<v Marilyn Ferguson>trying to define this new world that we're talking about. <v Marilyn Ferguson>I think one really fine recent book was called Silent <v Marilyn Ferguson>Pulse by George Leonard. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And George did a book a few years ago called The Transformation, which is also wonderful, <v Marilyn Ferguson>the kinds of publications that I'm sure you talk about from time to time here. <v Marilyn Ferguson>There are some magazines like New Age Journal and so on. <v Marilyn Ferguson>I would recommend for people who are just really ready to start getting <v Marilyn Ferguson>in touch with- with what's happening in their own lives <v Marilyn Ferguson>in terms of internal experiences a book called Focusing <v Marilyn Ferguson>by Eugene Gendlin, the publisher is called Everest House and <v Marilyn Ferguson>it's only been out for a few months. <v Marilyn Ferguson>It's a wonderful, wonderful approach- Gendlin is a psychologist at the University <v Marilyn Ferguson>of Chicago, and he's developed a technique for change. <v Marilyn Ferguson>It's really a technique to facilitate transformations as they've worked on for 15 years.

<v Marilyn Ferguson>And it's something people can do for themselves and with friends. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And it's- it's really wonderful just in terms of letting those experiences come <v Marilyn Ferguson>through, because transformation is always there waiting to happen in every area <v Marilyn Ferguson>of your life. It takes a certain amount of courage to go through the fear. <v Marilyn Ferguson>But on the other side is freedom. And I think after a while, the process reinforces <v Marilyn Ferguson>itself because you realize that you've been scared before and you'll be scared again, <v Marilyn Ferguson>but that every time you get through it, there is something really, really rewarding. <v Michael Toms>Besides reading books what else do you do? <v Marilyn Ferguson>[Laughter] I meditate, uh. <v Marilyn Ferguson>I think support, uh. <v Marilyn Ferguson>Friends are tremendously important. <v Marilyn Ferguson>I think we're teachers to each other and to be with people who are- <v Marilyn Ferguson>are really nurturant to you is very important as you're as you're doing this. <v Marilyn Ferguson>It's very hard to do it alone. It's practically impossible to do it alone. <v Marilyn Ferguson>I read a passage the other day that I thought was really wonderful.

<v Marilyn Ferguson>It said that the difference between people and things is that one <v Marilyn Ferguson>thing plus one thing equals two things. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And one person plus one person never equals two that we are either less than two <v Marilyn Ferguson>or more than two, that either we diminish each other or we are much more together than <v Marilyn Ferguson>we would be alone. <v Marilyn Ferguson>They're much [mumbling]- another person can make us much more than we knew we could be. <v Marilyn Ferguson> The song's about- about flying, the music about flying and our talk about flying <v Marilyn Ferguson>reminds me of a line from David Riesman Is the lonely crowd <v Marilyn Ferguson>of a 12 year old girl who said I would. <v Marilyn Ferguson>I would kind of like to fly, but only if everybody else did. <v Marilyn Ferguson>Otherwise it would be too conspicuous. [laughter] And I think that one of <v Marilyn Ferguson>the things that that happens to people as they begin testing their own limits <v Marilyn Ferguson>and finding out that there are exciting potentials in themselves is a little bit <v Marilyn Ferguson>of fear of being conspicuous or appearing to their old friends and family as being <v Marilyn Ferguson>overambitious. Who do you think you are?

<v Marilyn Ferguson>Kind of thing. And if you're with people who are themselves engaged in transformation <v Marilyn Ferguson>and transformative processes and who understand that you really need that <v Marilyn Ferguson>as a place to go to, a sanctuary and support. <v Michael Toms>Are there any other things? <v Marilyn Ferguson>Yeah. Conferences [Host: do you learn anything going to conferences?] You <v Marilyn Ferguson>learn a lot at conferences, in the hallways, [laughter]. <v Marilyn Ferguson>Conferences, seminars, workshops- a lot of those things are good. <v Marilyn Ferguson>After a while, I think some people find, oh, I'm conferenced out at a certain point. <v Marilyn Ferguson>That's not what you need. <v Marilyn Ferguson>But the main benefit of those things is to find friends, <v Marilyn Ferguson>to find a network, to find people who are on on <v Marilyn Ferguson>this other path and by other path. I mean, most people are going through life on some <v Marilyn Ferguson>kind of- we're all on a journey of some kind. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And I think that transformation simply reflects moving on to a different <v Marilyn Ferguson>kind of path. It's one where you're conscious of the change happening, and you are aware <v Marilyn Ferguson>of the fact that you have conditioning, and you have choices. <v Marilyn Ferguson>And when you're with other people like that, it's just the sky's the limit.

<v Michael Toms>Yeah it realy is. Marilyn, it's really been nice having you here. <v Michael Toms>I've always had a great deal of respect for you and your work. <v Michael Toms>And I want to honor the light that you put out with Brain/Mind. <v Marilyn Ferguson>Thank you. Thank you, Michael. <v Michael Toms>And the light you put out yourself. <v Michael Toms>You've been listening to New Dimensions. And if you'd like to get a complimentary copy of <v Michael Toms>Brain/Mind Bulletin, Marilyn will provide you one. <v Michael Toms>All you have to do is send a self-addressed stamped envelope. <v Michael Toms>And here's the address, and I'll give you a few seconds to retrieve a pencil with a piece <v Michael Toms>of paper. It's box 4-2-2-1-1. <v Michael Toms>That's box 4-2-2-1-1. <v Michael Toms>Los Angeles, California the zip code is 9-0-0-4-2. <v Michael Toms>And be sure to include a self-addressed stamped envelope. <v Michael Toms>That's for a complimentary copy of Brain/Mind Bulletin. <v Michael Toms>Also, if you'd like information about the upcoming Three Jewels in the Lotus II, a day <v Michael Toms>with Stuart Emery, Barbara Marx Hubbard and Patricia Son, you can write to New Dimensions

<v Michael Toms>Foundation. The address is 267 State Street, San Francisco <v Michael Toms>9-4-1-1-1. <v Michael Toms>On behalf of the entire new Dimensions Radio family, this is your host, Michael Toms, <v Michael Toms>wishing you visions every day. <v Speaker>[Music]