New Mexico in Focus; 841; Drilling Deep - Impacts of Oil and Gas Development and HIV Updates in New Mexico

>> PARTIAL FUNDING FOR THE PRODUCTION OF NEW MEXICO INFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION. >> THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO INFOCUS JOURNALIST LAURA PASKUS TELLS US WITH SHE LEARNED WHILE REPORTING ON OIL AND GAS DEVELOPMENT NEAR CHACO CANYON. >> ONE OF THE OVERWHELMING FEELINGS I GET IS PEOPLE ARE REALLY AFRAID OF WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TO THEIR WATER SUPPLY. >> AND LINE PANELISTS TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE SAN JUAN GENERATING STATION. NEW MEXICO INFOCUS STARTS NOW. >> WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO INFOCUS. LATER IN THE HOUR WE HEAR HOW ADVOCATES, HEALTH EDUCATORS AND MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS ARE ADDRESSING HIV PREVENTION AND TREATMENT IN THE STATE AND A LOCAL JOURNALIST TELLS US WHAT SHE LEARNED WHILE REPORTING ON NEW OIL AND GAS DEVELOPMENT NEAR THE NAVAJO NATION IN NORTHWESTERN NEW MEXICO, BUT, FIRST, WE GO TO THE LINE TO TALK ABOUT OTHER STORIES IN HEADLINES THIS WEEK. >> WELCOME TO THE LINE, EACH WEEK

WE INVITE COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO JOIN US AT THIS TABLE TO DISCUSS AND DEBATE WITH NEWS ABOUT THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT. THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE ANNOUNCED IT WILL CHANGE THE COLLEGE REQUIREMENTS FOR CADETS. IT IS PART OF AN EFFORT TO RECRUIT MORE CADETS AND FILL VACANCIES CURRENTLY AT APD. NEW CADETS WITH WORK EXPERIENCE OVER THE AGE OF 24 WILL BE ALLOWED TO ENTER THE ACADEMY WITHOUT COLLEGE CREDITS BUT THEY'LL HAVE TO EARN CREDITS LATER TO STAY ON THE FORCE. WE HAVE A GREAT PANEL READY TO DISCUSS THIS FROM THE GARRITY GROUP, PR. FORMER STATE SENATOR DEDE FELDMAN IS HERE. SOPHIE MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND EDITOR OF DUKECITYFIX.COM AND OUR FRIEND ROB NIKOLEWSKI FROM THE WATCHDOG.ORG. APD NEEDS TO RECRUIT HIGH QUALITY OFFICERS AS MAYOR STOOD WITH CHIEF EDEN AND TOLD US IN PRESS CONFERENCE EARLIER THIS WEEK AND THE WORD QUALITY CAME UP A BUNCH, EXCEPTIONAL PEOPLE, BUT THERE WASN'T REALLY A SENSE OF WHAT DENOTED WORK EXPERIENCE OR LIFE EXPERIENCE THAT WOULD MAKE ONE EXCEPTIONAL. DID YOU GET A SENSE OF THAT? >> I MEAN IT BROAD AND FOR SOME REASON,

THE COLLEGE REQUIREMENT IS KEEPING THOSE EXCEPTIONAL PEOPLE, ASIDE FROM THOSE WHO ARE ALREADY IN THE FORCE, FROM APPLYING. AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT THIS IS BASICALLY WE HAVE A BIGGER NET NOW TO TRY AND RECRUIT FOLKS INTO APD. BECAUSE IT IS BASICALLY A TWO-STEP PROCESS. ONE IS GETTING PEOPLE INTERESTED IN BECOMING A POLICE OFFICER. THE OTHER IS RIGOROUS, YOU KNOW, TESTING AND TRAINING THAT TAKES PLACE WHERE A LOT OF THOSE FOLKS WHO SIGN UP WILL BE WINNOWED OUT, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY MEET THE GRADE. THEY WEREN'T QUITE AS EXCEPTIONAL AS THE TRAINING WOULD WANT THEM TO BE. >> SURE. SOPHIE AGE 24 INTERESTED ME AS WELL. A LOT OF STUDIES OUT THERE, I REMEMBER READING ONE RECENTLY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO MEN WHEN THEY PASS A CERTAIN THRESHOLD OF AGE. THEY GROW UP A LITTLE BIT, IN REAL STREET TERMS. DID YOU FIND THAT INTERESTING THERE WAS ACTUALLY AN AGE ATTACHED TO THIS. THAT WAS OFTEN IN HIRING YOU TRY TO SORT OF CREATE CUT-OFFS

SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TOO MUCH -- TOO MANY FACTORS TO DEAL WITH. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK IS CONCERNING ABOUT THE MOVE TOWARD DROPPING THE COLLEGE CREDIT REQUIREMENT IS THAT THERE IS RESEARCH THAT INDICATES THAT THE SORT OF STICK-TO-ITIVENESS, THE DISCIPLINE THAT HELPS YOU TO GET THROUGH PART OR ALL OF COLLEGE IS SOMETHING THAT WE ACTUALLY WANT TO SEE IN OUR OFFICERS AND INTERESTING RESEARCH THAT CAME OUT IN THE JOURNAL FIVE YEARS AGO SAYING THAT OFFICERS THAT HAD HIGHER EDUCATION BACKGROUND, YOU KNOW, WHO HAD GONE TO COLLEGE, ET CETERA, WERE INVOLVED IN FEWER USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS. THAT IT SEEMED FROM THAT RESEARCH THEY WERE BETTER ABLE TO KIND OF CONTROL SITUATIONS, PERHAPS CONTROL THEMSELVES. THEY WERE STILL ARRESTING PEOPLE, THEY WERE STILL CONDUCTING INVESTIGATIONS, DOING ALL THE IMPORTANT THINGS WE WANT OFFICERS TO DO, BUT THERE WAS LESS OF THAT USE OF FORCE PROBLEM. >> INTERESTING. ROB GOOD TO SEE YOU. TOM MENTIONED THE WINNOWING DOWN EFFECT.

WHAT STRUCK ME IN SOME OF THE REPORTING IS YOU CAN HAVE ABOUT 1500 CANDIDATES APPLY, IT COMES DOWN TO LIKE 20, 15, 18 PEOPLE. TALK ABOUT A WINNOWING DOWN. SO, YOU HAVE EITHER GOT ONE OF TWO THINGS. YOU HAVE TO OPEN UP THAT THING ON THE END OR ON THE FRONT END YOU NEED MORE APPLICANTS. DOES THIS SEEM REASONABLE APPROACH. IS THIS A HAPPY MIDDLE GROUND HAS MADE A PRETTY GOOD DEFENSE FOR HIGHER EDUCATION AND THIS MIGHT COME -- MIGHT SOUND -- I HAVE TWO MASTERS DEGREES BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS REALLY A CONNECTION THERE. I MEAN, BECAUSE -- >> HAVING A FOUR-YEAR DEGREE AND BEING A GOOD COP? >> YEAH. TO ME, COLLEGE IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS CHARACTER. AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT ESPECIALLY THIS TROUBLED POLICE DEPARTMENT NEEDS TO TAKE A LOOK AT AND IF THEY ARE WINNOWING DOWN THE FIELD, QUITE A BIT, I THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T HAVE ROGUE COPS OUT ON THE STREETS AND YET AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK THEY NEED -- THEY ARE LIKE 20% UNDERSTAFFED RIGHT NOW. SO IT IS A DIFFICULT BALANCING ACT

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT LOWERING THE COLLEGE STANDARD IS NECESSARILY GOING TO HURT. I THINK WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE THAT DO GET IN ARE HIGH QUALITY PEOPLE. >> SURE. YOU KNOW, DEDE, CHARACTER IS A TOUGH THING TO JUDGE AHEAD OF TIME. >> CHARACTER IS A VERY TOUGH THING TO JUDGE AHEAD OF TIME. AND, IT IS VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT DROPPING THE COLLEGE REQUIREMENTS AND I THINK THAT YOU REALLY HAVE TO ANALYZE WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE STATE POLICE, WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS OF OTHER STATES AND I THINK THAT THE CITY DID DROP ITS REQUIREMENTS ABOUT TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO, AND THAT WAS WHEN SOME OF THE OFFICERS WHO ARE NOW BEING CHARGED WITH VIOLENCE, MISUSE OF VIOLENT APPROACHES TO POLICING WERE ADMITTED IN SPITE OF THE WINNOWING PROCESS, SO -- >> ISN'T THAT

A TOUGH SPOT. ROB MAKES IT A 20% DROP IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. WE HAVE LOST 20% OF THE OFFICERS. THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. WE NEED OFFICERS ON THE STREET. IS THERE A BALANCE BETWEEN PENNY WISE AND POUND FOOLISH IN JUST GETTING FOLKS OUT THERE. WHERE IS THE LINE ON THIS? >> I THINK YOU JUST HAVE TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER TOOLS BESIDES DROPPING YOUR EDUCATIONAL STANDARD. THERE IS INCREASED SALARY. I THINK THEY ARE GIVING BONUSES TO PEOPLE SO THEY DON'T RETIRE AT THIS POINT. OF COURSE, THE MAYOR AND THE CITY WAS UNSUCCESSFUL AT THE LEGISLATURE AND I FOR ONE AM GLAD THEY WERE UNSUCCESSFUL IN ALLOWING DOUBLE DIPPING BECAUSE THAT IS A GREAT DANGER FOR OUR PENSION SYSTEM. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THERE ARE OTHER TOOLS THEY COULD USE. >> SOPHIE, I WANT TO COME TO ANOTHER APD THING. WE HAVE HAD A VERY INTERESTING SITUATION, CHIEF EDEN GO ON YOUTUBE AND SAY

WE HAD A REPORT OF TWO OFFICERS DOING SOMETHING, SOMEWHERE, TO SOMEONE. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF DETAILS ABOUT WHAT IS THIS ABOUT. >> CAN YOU IMAGINE SOMEONE CALLED 911 AND THE REACTION OF THE 911 OPERATORS, YOU KNOW. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT POPPED UP RIGHT AWAY ON SOCIAL MEDIA WHEN THAT VIDEO CAME OUT WAS A REACTION TO THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T ASK QUESTIONS. SO, BASICALLY, EDEN HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE WITH NO PRESS AND I CAN SEE FROM ONE PERSPECTIVE THE LIKE WE NEED TO ENGAGE IN SOCIAL MEDIA, WE NEED TO BE WHERE PEOPLE ARE AND ON THE OTHER HAND AND THEN WE WILL NOT HAVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. NOW, HE HAS COME OUT SINCE, I BELIEVE HE SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CERTAIN QUESTIONS WE REALLY COULDN'T ANSWER HERE BECAUSE OF THE ONGOING NEEDS FOR THE INVESTIGATION SO THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION THAT WAS MADE TO US. BUT IT DIDN'T FEEL RIGHT. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE COMMUNITY, ISSUING,

YOU KNOW, A SORT OF A STIFF STAND UP IS NOT REALLY WHAT THE COMMUNITY IS LOOKING FOR. >> HOW DID THAT STRIKE YOU? >> I ACTUALLY GOT INTO SOME INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME REPORTERS ABOUT THIS. YOU KNOW. AT FIRST I THOUGHT, WELL, IT IS DEFINITELY AN APPROACH BUT THEN AS IT PLAYED OUT IT WAS A BAD APPROACH. IF YOU'RE BONO AND YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT HUNGER ISSUES AND FAMINE IN AFRICA, IT IS A GRIT TOOL TO GET YOUR MESSAGE OUT. IF YOU'RE A BELEAGUERED POLICE CHIEF FOR THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE, IT'S PROBABLY NOT THE BEST THING BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO HAVE PEOPLE ASK YOU QUESTIONS, TO REALLY, YOU KNOW, EXPLORE AND BE THAT THOUGHT LEADER IN SAYING WE ARE THE ONES INTERNALLY WHO FOUND THIS AND WE ARE GOING TO MOVE IT FORWARD AND PROSECUTE IT. >> I WONDER, DEDE, IF THE CHIEF WAS TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF SOMETHING. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IF HE DIDN'T SAY IT, SOMEONE ELSE WAS GOING TO SAY IT AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A BIGGER MESS. >> HE RAISED SO MANY QUESTIONS BY HIS STATEMENT. I MEAN IT IS LIKE SOMEBODY COMING ON THE AIR AND SAYING, WELL,

I THINK I MIGHT BE PREGNANT. YOU KNOW. AND, THEN, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. BUT, THE THING THAT WAS UPSETTING TO ME ABOUT IT WAS THE END OF THAT SEGMENT IN WHICH HE SAID, BASICALLY, SO THERE, I AM TRANSPARENT AND I AM DOING MY BEST TO REPAIR OUR REPUTATION WITH THE COMMUNITY. WHEN, IN FACT, HE WAS DOING JUST THE OPPOSITE. >> SURE. THIS MAY BE HARSH. SOMETHING ABOUT IT WAS A LITTLE 1984'ISH, WHEN YOU WATCH IT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? TOM'S POINT, I DON'T HAVE SOMEONE THERE TO ASK QUESTIONS OF YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY REALIZED THIS WHEN THEY MADE IT. >> THEY PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE WHEN THEY MADE IT. I KNOW WHERE CHIEF EDEN IS COMING FROM, BECAUSE HE HAD THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT A FEW MONTHS AGO, GOT HIMSELF IN HOT WATER RIGHT AFTER HE STARTED. HE DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE ANOTHER MISTAKE LIKE THAT, BUT IT LOOKS OVERLY DEFENSIVE, I KNOW WHAT HE IS TRYING TO DO. HE IS SAYING, WE HAVE THIS DOJ HANGING

OVER US, I CAN'T TAKE A LOT OF QUESTIONS. WELL, JUST SAY THAT. JUST SAY, I KNOW THAT YOU REPORTERS ARE GOING TO WANT MORE SPECIFICS ABOUT THIS BUT THIS IS ALL I CAN GIVE YOU AND YOU'LL GET SOME PUSH BACK FROM VARIOUS QUESTIONS, YOU CAN JUST SAY, 50 TIMES, I CAN'T GO ANY FURTHER. WHEN I COVERED SPORTS BILL BELICHICK WAS A MASTER OF THAT. >> ALWAYS ON AT CINCINNATI. SAME WITH YOU, A NEW SUBJECT ON APD. WE HAVE HAD MOVEMENT, MS. BRANDENBURG, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, IS NOT GOING TO BE PROSECUTING THE BOYD CASE AND RANDI MCGINN, A LONG TIME PROSECUTOR HERE IS GOING TO BE DOING IT. YOUR SENSE OF THIS? WAS THAT A LOSS FOR MS. BRANDENBURG? IT TURNED OUT SHE DID HAVE A CONFLICT AS APD CLAIMED THAT SHE DID. >> I MIGHT DEFER TO SOPHIE, OUR LEGAL EXPERT ON THIS. WHAT STRUCK ME ABOUT THAT, AND EVEN BEFORE SHE NAMED MS. MCGINN TO THE SPOT, I WAS THINKING, OKAY, IF I AM THE DEFENDANT IN THIS -- THE ATTORNEY FOR THE DEFENDANTS,

IF MS. BRANDENBURG TAKES THIS CASE AND THEY DO CHARGE MY CLIENTS, I HAVE GOT A PRETTY GOOD GROUNDS FOR APPEAL BECAUSE OF THE SO-CALLED CONFLICT OF INTEREST. BUT NOW SHE GOES TO MS. MCGINN, WHO IS VERY WELL REGARDED HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE. NOW I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO GET A TOUGHER SHARK IN THE WATER AND YOU MIGHT GET BIT. >> SHE IS NO PUSHOVER. >> NO. >> AND SHE HAS HANDLED ONE OF THE CASE FOR A VICTIM OF AN APD SHOOTING. >> CHRIS TORREZ. >> WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF HER STEPPING TO THE FRONT HERE? >> THE LATEST NEWS JUST IN TODAY IS THAT SHE HAS CALLED IN THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS AND ASKED THEM TO PRESENT THEIR CASE, WHY THEIR CLIENT SHOULD NOT BE CHARGED WITH MURDER AS DA BRANDENBURG DID. SO, I THINK THAT IS A GREAT FIRST STEP FOR HER TO DIFFUSE ANY FEELINGS THAT SHE IS GOING TO BE A BARRACUDA. I THINK

SHE IS GOING TO BE A BARRACUDA AND I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, TOUCHE TO KARI BRANDENBURG, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SHE WAS, I THINK, A VICTIM OF POLICE FINAGLING THERE AND SHE SURPRISED EVERYONE BY THE APPOINTMENT OF THIS VERY WELL REGARDED LAWYER. >> SURE. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU, WHY IS IT NECESSARY TO TALK ABOUT GETTING THIS WOMAN ON THE CHEAP? WHAT IS THE POINT OF TALKING ABOUT SHE IS ONLY CHARGING 5400 OR WHATEVER IT IS. WHY EVEN TALK ABOUT THAT? >> WELL, I THINK FIRST OFF, I THINK THAT IS THE MAXIMUM THEY CAN CHARGE WITH REGARDS TO PUBLIC DEFENDER CASES, BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW ALL THAT PROCESS BUT PART OF IT IS JUST THE TRANSPARENCY AND I THINK IT GOES TO KARI BRANDENBURG -- FROM A PR PERSPECTIVE, RIGHT NOW SHE IS DOING ALL THE RIGHT THINGS. SHE ACCEPTS THE RULING FROM THE COURT. DOESN'T CHALLENGE APD. AND AS A RESULT APD, THE DEVIL YOU KNOW SOMETIMES IS BETTER THAN THE DEVIL YOU DON'T AND SINCE

WE USED DIFFERENT ANALOGIES AROUND THE TABLE, I THINK APD IS WISHING, MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE STUCK WITH BRANDENBURG. >> WE HEARD WHAT THE ROADS TO CHACO CANYON LOOK LIKE RIGHT NOW AS MORE COMPANIES MOVE IN TO PURSUE OIL AND GAS DEVELOPMENT. >> IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO THE ROUTE OF THE SIERRA CLUB IT IS GOING AND THIS IS A POOR STATE. IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE UTILITY RATES GO UP, THE POOR PEOPLE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT TAKE THE BRUNT OF THAT. >> OIL AND GAS DEVELOPMENT HAS LONG PLAYED AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY, BUT MANY NEW MEXICANS ARE WARY OF NEW MINING AND DRILLING. THEY ARE RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT LONG-TERM DAMAGE TO THE ENVIRONMENT AND HUMAN HEALTH. JOURNALIST LAURA PASKUS HAS WRITTEN ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT HERE IN NEW MEXICO FOR SEVERAL YEARS. SHE IS CURRENTLY PRODUCING RADIO STORIES FOR KUNM'S DRILLING DEEP SERIES THAT ZOOMS IN CLOSE ON OIL AND GAS DEVELOPMENT IN THE NORTHWESTERN PART OF THE STATE. SHE HAS ALSO WRITTEN ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT

AROUND CHACO CANYON FOR THE SANTA FE REPORTER. OUR PRODUCER SARAH GUSTAVUS SAT DOWN WITH LAURA PASKUS TO HEAR WHAT SHE HAS LEARNED. >> LAURA, THANKS FOR SITTING DOWN WITH US TODAY. >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME, SARAH. >> IN ALBUQUERQUE AND SANTA FE, WHO DON'T SPEND MUCH TIME IN NORTHWESTERN NEW MEXICO, TELL US WHAT WE WOULD SEE IF WE DROVE OUT THERE RIGHT NOW. YOU HAVE BEEN DRIVING OUT QUITE A BIT FOR YOUR REPORTING. WHAT WOULD WE SEE ON THE WAY THERE? >> ONE TO THINK ABOUT IS THAT YOU WOULD SEE A LOT OF CHANGE. IT IS CONSTANTLY CHANGING. IF YOU HAVE DRIVEN UP 550 TOWARD FARMINGTON, IF YOU'RE HEADED TO DURANGO, ONCE YOU GET PAST CUBA AND KIND OF CREST OVER THE CONTINENTAL DIVIDE TOWARD COUNSELOR AND LYBROOK, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT PROBABLY IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS OR SO. YOU'LL SEE RIGS OUT THERE, LAND BEING CLEARED, LOTS OF -- BIG GREEN TANKS OF NITROGEN OR WATER AND YOU SEE THAT ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH PAST COUNSELOR AND LYBROOK

AND TOWARD THE TURN OFF FOR CHACO CANYON. >> ARE THE ROADS MORE CROWDED NOW THAN THEY WERE BEFORE? >> THE ROADS ARE REALLY CROWDED. YOU KNOW A FEW YEARS AGO THE STATE WIDENED THAT HIGHWAY FROM TWO LANES TO FOUR LANES BUT IT IS A CONSTANT MOVEMENT OF THE BIG ENERGY TRUCKS AND THEN ALSO BIG TANKER TRUCKS THAT ARE BRINGING THE PRODUCTS TO MARKET OR BRINGING WASTEWATER OR WHATEVER. IT IS VERY BUSY AND IF YOU'RE A REPORTER SITTING ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD TRYING TO TAKE PICTURES, IT IS SUPER BUSY. >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT YOUR SERIES DRILLING DEEP SO FAR, YOU WENT UP IN A PLANE TO GET AN AERIAL VIEW OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING. WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THAT EXPERIENCE OF BEING UP THERE? >> I LEARNED THAT EVEN THOUGH I HAVE LIVED IN NEW MEXICO FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS, I JUST DON'T HAVE A SENSE OF THE SCALE AND LANDSCAPE AND DEVELOPMENT UP IN THE FOUR CORNERS. WHEN YOU DRIVE HIGHWAY 550, YOU SEE, YOU MIGHT SEE PUMP JACKS ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD

OR TRAILERS OR HOUSES HERE AND THERE, BUT IT REALLY, JUST DRIVING THAT HIGHWAY YOU HAVE THE SENSE OF THIS OPENNESS AND VAST EMPTY DESERT. BUT, REALLY, ONCE YOU'RE UP ABOVE AND LOOKING DOWN, IT IS REALLY AMAZING TO SEE THE AMOUNT OF DEVELOPMENT IN THAT AREA. THERE ARE ABOUT 22,000 NATURAL GAS WELLS AND SOMEWHERE AROUND 100 NEW OIL WELLS. AND, SO, EACH WELL HAS A ROAD THAT GOES TO IT, MOST OF THEM HAVE THEIR OWN BASE PONDS. YOU SEE THE TRAFFIC. IT IS JUST THIS SPIDER WEB, REALLY, SHOCKING TO SEE FROM THE AIR. ONE OF THE OTHER REALLY COOL THINGS IS THAT FROM THE AIR, YOU CAN ALSO SEE THE PREHISTORIC DEVELOPMENTS. IT IS REALLY SORT OF INTERESTING AND EXCITING TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT IS CHACO COMPLEX UP THERE, THE BIG GREAT HOUSES OR THE ROADS, ANCIENT ROADS, ALL JUST VISIBLE FROM UP THERE. IT IS REALLY QUITE STUNNING. >> RIGHT NEXT

TO EACH OTHER? >> UH-HUH, YES, SOMETIMES. >> LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU MET, SOME OF THE PEOPLE ARE DESCENDANTS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN THE AREA FOR GENERATIONS AND GENERATIONS, WHAT ARE THEY SAYING ABOUT THE NEW DEVELOPMENT UP IN THAT AREA? >> A LOT OF THE WOMEN I MET UP THERE, AND IT REALLY HAS BEEN WOMEN, IN PARTICULAR, WHO I HAVE BEEN MEETING UP THERE, WHO ARE ACTIVELY OPPOSING NEW DEVELOPMENT WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT NEW OIL INDUSTRY UP THERE WOULD MEAN FOR COMMUNITIES AND FOR WATER AND THE ENVIRONMENT. AND THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE NOISE AND POTENTIAL FOR CRIME THAT COMES WITH INCREASED DEVELOPMENT AND MORE WORKERS COMING INTO THE AREA, BUT THEY ARE ALSO REALLY WORRIED ABOUT HEALTH IMPACTS FROM EMISSIONS AND I THINK THAT ONE OF THE OVERWHELMING FEELINGS I GET IS PEOPLE ARE REALLY AFRAID OF WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TO THEIR WATER SUPPLIES. AND THEY ARE JUST -- WHAT I HEAR IS THEY ARE NOT

GETTING THE INFORMATION THEY NEED, JUST TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING. >> ARE THESE NATIVE COMMUNITIES UP THERE? >> THESE ARE. THESE WOMAN WHO I MEET WITH, THEY ARE ALL NAVAJO AND THEY LIVE IN THE AREA. THEIR FAMILIES HAVE LIVED IN THE AREA FOR GENERATIONS. >> IT IS REALLY POWERFUL IN YOUR SERIES FOR KUNM VOICES OF SOME OF THOSE WOMEN LIKE GLORIA GUITERREZ, SHE TALKED ABOUT THE FLARES YOU CAN SEE IN THE AREA ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT, WHEN YOU DRIVE THROUGH HERE, YOU KNOW, IT IS ENOUGH TO MAKE YOU JUST CRY. ONE OF THE LADIES WAS SAYING THIS PLACE LOOKS LIKE A WAR ZONE. IT IS JUST COMPLETELY LIT UP. YOU SEE FLAMES EVERYWHERE AND YOU SMELL THAT GAS, THAT BURNING, THAT JUST, IT IS JUST UGLY. >> THERE IS A LOT OF PASSION AND A LOT OF CONCERN AND FEARS AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEIR HISTORY AND HOW THEY HAVE BEEN THERE FOR GENERATIONS SO THEY HAVE SEEN THE LANDSCAPE CHANGE. THEIR FAMILIES FOR MANY

GENERATIONS HAVE FELT THE IMPACTS OF DEVELOPMENT WHETHER IT IS COAL OR OIL AND GAS OR URANIUM MINING AND SO, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE ALSO PEOPLE WHO AREN'T JUST GOING TO MOVE AWAY, YOU KNOW. THAT IS WHERE THEIR FAMILIES ARE, WHERE THEIR ROOTS AND HISTORY IS. >> TELL US ABOUT SARAH JANE WHITE. >> SARAH JANE WHITE. SHE IS AN INTERESTING LADY. SHE IS JUST AMAZING IN HER ABILITY TO SORT OF TIE ALL THESE ISSUES TOGETHER. SHE IS JUST IN THE FEW CONVERSATIONS THAT I HAVE HAD WITH HER, SHE HAS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND THE PLACE, THE IMPORTANCE OF PLACE, FOR PEOPLE FOR THE NAVAJO PEOPLE, FOR HER FAMILY, AND WHAT IT MEANT TO BE LIVING IN THAT AREA AND THEN TO BE FORCIBLY REMOVED BY THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT DURING THE LATE 19TH CENTURY WHEN THE LONG WALK HAPPENED AND WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO COME BACK, TO COME HOME AND HOW IMPORTANT PROTECTING THAT HOME IS TODAY.

>> RIGHT NOW THERE IS HEALTHY PEOPLE LIVING HERE. THE AIR IS FRESH, IT IS CLEAN. THIS IS GOING TO BE TURNED INTO A TRASH DUMP. OIL TRASH DUMP, THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. WHEN THEY ARE DONE SUCKING EVERYTHING UP, EVERYBODY IS GOING TO PICK UP AND LEAVE AND LEAVE TRASH BEHIND. NOBODY IS GOING TO CLEAN IT UP AND THAT IS WHAT BOTHERS ME. >> YOU KNOW, OIL AND GAS IS A BIG PART OF NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMY RIGHT NOW. IT IS ALSO AN ECONOMIC DRIVER FOR THE STATE. WHEN YOU TALK TO THE COMPANIES, HOW ARE THEY ADDRESSING CONCERNS FROM THE COMMUNITY, CONCERNS ABOUT WATER AND OTHER CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE ABOUT THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT? >> I THINK IN SOME WAYS THERE IS A LACK OF COMMUNICATION AND I THINK PART OF IT IS IT IS A REALLY CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE AND I HAVE MET SOME REALLY NICE PEOPLE WITHIN THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, PEOPLE WHO DO CARE AND WHO DO WANT TO MAKE THE BEST DECISIONS FOR NEW MEXICO AND FOR THEIR FAMILIES

AND FOR THE FUTURE TOO. I THINK IT IS JUST UNFORTUNATE AND IT SEEMS LIKE IT BECOMES -- THE ISSUE HAS BECOME MORE POLARIZED ALL THE TIME WHERE PEOPLE, THERE IS MISINFORMATION OUT THERE, THERE IS A LACK OF COMMUNICATION. THERE IS A LOT OF JUST PEOPLE WHO FEEL LIKE THEY CAN'T GET ALONG AND I THINK IF WE ALL MAYBE SAT DOWN AND TALKED A LITTLE MORE CLEARLY WITH ONE ANOTHER, SOME OF THOSE MISUNDERSTANDINGS COULD GET TAKEN CARE OF. >> ALSO YOU HAVE COVERED A PROPOSED PIPELINE IN THE AREA. WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THAT SO FAR? >> SO THE PIPELINE WOULD BE A PRETTY BIG DEAL FROM THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, WHAT I HAVE HEARD IS THAT THE IMPORTANCE FOR THAT PIPELINE IS TO GET PRODUCTS TO MARKET BECAUSE THERE ISN'T AN INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE NORTHWESTERN PART OF THE STATE FOR OIL. IT IS ALL NATURAL GAS

INFRASTRUCTURE. SO, GETTING THAT PRODUCT TO MARKET QUICKER AND WHAT THE INDUSTRY AND THE STATE SAYS SAFER. LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT THE TRAFFIC. A PIPELINE WOULD OBVIOUSLY CUT DOWN ON A LOT OF THAT TRAFFIC BUT THERE ARE SAFETY CONCERNS WITH PIPELINES. WE HAVE SEEN PIPELINE ACCIDENTS AND SPILLS BUT THIS WOULD BE A NEW PIPELINE SO, YOU KNOW, IF IT WERE CONSTRUCTED HOPEFULLY IT WOULD BE SOLID AND THERE WOULDN'T BE ACCIDENTS BUT I THINK A BIG CONCERN WITH THE PIPELINE IS NOT ONLY IT WOULD BE GOING THROUGH PEOPLES' LAND OR THE POTENTIAL FOR ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS IT MIGHT HAVE ON WILDLIFE OR REAL ESTATE IN THE AREA, BUT THAT BY PUTTING THAT NEW PIPELINE IN, IT WOULD REALLY BE JUST OPENING UP THE POTENTIAL FOR MORE AND MORE DRILLING AND SO I THINK THAT IS A BIG CONCERN FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE AREA AND FOR ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS WHO ARE OPPOSING THE PIPELINE. >> WHAT

ARE YOU LOOKING AT NEXT IN YOUR SERIES? >> NEXT, I AM REALLY EXCITED, I AM SURE LOTS OF YOUR VIEWERS HEARD ABOUT THE METHANE ANOMALY IN THE FOUR CORNERS. ONE OF THE BIGGEST HOT SPOTS FOR METHANE EMISSIONS IN THE UNITED STATES IS IN THE FOUR CORNERS, SO, I AM GOING TO BE LEARNING MORE ABOUT WHERE THAT METHANE IS COMING FROM, WHAT THE FEDERAL AND STATE AGENCIES ARE DOING ABOUT ADDRESSING THAT SO THAT IS WHY I AM LOOKING AT ECONOMICS OF THE FOUR CORNERS AND TAKING A LOOK MORE INTENSELY AT FLARING AND IMPACTS OF FLARING. >> LAURA PASKUS, THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> THANK OUT TO US ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND JOIN THE CONVERSATION. WE ARE AT NMINFOCUS ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER AND FIND EPISODES AND WEB EXTRAS AT THE WEBSITE, WE ARE BACK AT THE TABLE

WITH LINE PANELISTS. PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF NEW MEXICO, WHICH MOST OF US KNOW HERE TO HEARING OFFICER'S RECOMMENDATION THAT THE PUBLIC REGULATION COMMISSION OR PRC REJECT PNM'S PLAN FOR THE SAN JUAN GENERATING STATION. WE COVERED THE DEBATE OVER THAT COAL FIRED POWER PLANT RECENTLY ON NEW MEXICO INFOCUS AND YOU'LL FIND THE INTERVIEW HERE AT OUR WEBSITE AT NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG. >> PNM SAYS REJECTING THE PLAN CURRENTLY UNDER CONSIDERATION WOULD END UP COSTING CUSTOMERS, SOPHIE, MORE THAT ARGUMENT THAT IT WOULD END UP COSTING MORE? >> ONE OF THE CHALLENGES FOR PNM OF THE HEARING OFFICERS REPORT IS THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THE HEARING OFFICER SAID WAS YOU'RE NOT GIVING US ENOUGH INFORMATION TO FULLY EVALUATE YOUR CLAIMS AND IT FEELS TO ME LIKE THAT INCLUDES THIS CLAIM THAT RATEPAYERS ARE GOING TO PAY MORE IF PNM DOESN'T GET WHAT IT WANTS. SO PNM IS I THINK SORT OF STUCK IN THIS PLACE, HOW MUCH INFORMATION DO WE SHARE. NOW, MAYBE IT WAS AN HONEST OVERSIGHT THERE,

BUT IT DOESN'T FEEL SO GOOD WHEN YOU HAVE THIS HEARING OFFICER SAYING, I FEEL YOU'RE WITHHOLDING INFORMATION AND THEREFORE WE CAN'T REALLY FULLY VET YOUR CLAIMS. >> EXACTLY RIGHT. TOM WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT SITUATION, SAME QUESTION A LITTLE BIT SIDEWAYS. PNM HAS THEIR SIDE OF THIS CERTAINLY BUT 12% INCREASE THEY ARE ASKING FOR HERE, I THINK ABOUT $10 A MONTH FOR THE AVERAGE KITCHEN TABLE PNM CLIENT HERE. IS IT REALLY THAT EGREGIOUS WHAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR, BEYOND ALL THE OTHER STUFF ABOUT SAN JUAN AND SHUTTING TWO OF THE THINGS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO PEOPLE, IS THIS REALLY THAT BAD A SITUATION FOR FOLKS? >> BY MEANS INTERESTS IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE. YOU KNOW, THE RATE CASES ARE VERY COMPLICATED. AND, SO, I AM GLAD THAT EVERYBODY IS TAKING THE TIME THEY NEED TO TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT. BUT I ALSO THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO HEAR ALL SIDES OF THE STORY AND YOU KNOW YOU REFERENCED THE INTERVIEW LAST WEEK AS FAR AS ON NEW MEXICO INFOCUS. AND IT WAS

AMAZING TO ME THAT THE CRITICS OF THIS PARTICULAR PLAN ARE NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES THE COMMUNITY OF FARMINGTON REALLY THINK? WELL, THEY DON'T KNOW. AND, THEY CLAIM THAT PNM IS AGAINST COAL FIRED ENERGY. THEY DON'T WANT COAL FIRED ENERGY BUT PNM IS REDUCING THE NUMBER OF PLANTS. THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. THEY ARE UPSET ABOUT INCREASED RATES BUT PNM IS NOT ABLE TO USE THAT TO INVEST IN NEW TECHNOLOGY. THERE IS A LOT OF DISPARITIES HERE. >> FOUR CORNERS TOM BROUGHT UP, DEDE FELDMAN, INTERESTING COUNTY COMMISSION UP THERE IS, IN FACT, IN SUPPORT OF PNM'S PLAN UP THERE BECAUSE IT COMES DOWN, IF I READING THE TEA LEAVES HERE, COAL, AND PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT LOSING THE JOBS FOR COAL IF THIS THING JUST DOESN'T WORK OUT BECAUSE WE HAVE A POTENTIAL CHANGE IN 2017. WHAT DO YOU THINK THE SQUEEZE IS HERE WITH THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION? >> IT IS BECAUSE, OF COURSE, FARMINGTON PULLED OUT OF THE STIPULATED AGREEMENT THAT REALLY GOT THIS WHOLE BALL ROLLING IN TERMS

OF BEING MORE CRITICAL OF PNM THAN HAD INITIALLY BEEN THOUGHT AND SO, OBVIOUSLY, PNM HAS BEEN UP THERE WORKING THE CROWD AND THREATENING OR SAYING THAT THEY ARE GOING TO CLOSE DOWN THE SAN JUAN GENERATING PLANT IF THEY DON'T GET THE RATE INCREASE. >> IS THAT FAIR POOL? YOU CANNOT JUST SHUT DOWN A POWER PLANT. THERE ARE FEDERAL REGULATIONS ABOUT THIS. YOU CAN'T JUST TURN OFF THE LIGHTS TO PROVE A POINT. >> WELL, THEY ARE CAUGHT BETWEEN A ROCK AND HARD PLACE THERE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO MAKE REPAIRS TO THAT PLANT IN ORDER TO COMPLY WITH THE NEW EPA STANDARDS BUT IT IS THE LONG RANGE PLAN, I THINK, THAT IS GENERATING A LOT OF OPPOSITION AND THE LONG RANGE PLAN, WHICH, YOU KNOW, WHICH REQUIRES CONTINUED INVESTMENT IN NUCLEAR AND IN THAT PLAN AND CONTINUED RELIANCE ON COAL

IS NOT -- I DON'T THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE FIGURING OUT WHAT IS THE LONG RANGE BENEFIT FOR FARMINGTON AND WHAT IS THE SHORT RANGE BENEFIT FOR FARMINGTON. >> DOES THAT MAKE SENSE, ROB? IT IS INTERESTING HEARING THE OFFICER, MS. GLICK, HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE IDEA OF ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO CAST FORWARD INSTEAD OF LOOKING BACKWARDS TO KIND OF DETERMINE COSTS AND THAT IS A DIFFICULTY FOR PNM, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. >> IN ECONOMICS THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH AND THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH IN ENERGY EITHER AND RELIABILITY IS A PRIORITY HERE. THE QUESTION, I THINK, WELL, A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS POP INTO MY MIND, BECAUSE, APPARENTLY THIS THING HAD BEEN SIGNED OFF BY A NUMBER OF ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS, ALSO EPA KIND OF GAVE IT A CONDITIONAL THUMBS UP. THIS HAPPENED A YEAR AGO, NOW PNM HAS STEPPED ON THEIR OWN FOOT BECAUSE THEY CAME BACK A FEW

MONTHS AGO AND SAID, OUR NUMBERS WERE WRONG, WE WERE OFF. >> OFF A LOT. >> THINK IT WAS -- >> A BILLION. >> SO, THAT WAS A BIG HIT -- BIT UNFORCED ERROR ON THEIR PART BUT IF YOU GO THE ROUTE OF THE SIERRA CLUB IT IS GOING TO COST YOU MORE MONEY AND THIS IS A POOR STATE. IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE UTILITY RATES GO UP, THE POOR PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO TAKE THE BRUNT OF THAT. >> IS IT FOLKS DON'T TRUST WHERE THE POTENTIAL MONEY IS GOING TO GO. THEY ARE SAYING NUCLEAR, SOLAR ALL THAT KIND THING, THEY NEED TO MAKE UP FOR THE COAL THAT IS NOT USED. IS IT A TRUST ISSUE; THE FOLKS DON'T TRUST THIS COMPANY? >> UTILITY COMPANIES ARE DESPISED BY EVERYONE EVERYDAY. IT IS NOT LIKE IT IS A QUESTION OF COAL OR NO COAL. BECAUSE, THEY ARE GOING TO REDUCE THEIR COAL OUTPUT BY 50%. THAT IS A BIG NUMBER AND I THINK THAT WAS THE BIG CARROT THAT THEY OFFERED TO EPA, BECAUSE EPA NATURALLY HAS CRACKED DOWN ON COAL FIRED

NUCLEAR POWER OR COAL FIRED PLANTS. >> RIGHT. I WONDER, SOPHIE, WE HAVE A DECISION IN MAY, PRC DOES NOT HAVE TO NECESSARILY TAKE THIS HEARING OFFICER'S RECOMMENDATIONS AT ALL. >> CORRECT. >> I AM CURIOUS WHERE YOU THINK WE MIGHT BE SITTING ON THIS CASTING FORWARD. >> IT IS A GOOD QUESTION AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT EVEN HERE, THIS HEARING OFFICER DIDN'T SAY, I THINK IT SHOULD BE DONE. INSTEAD WHAT SHE SAID WAS, I THINK WE NEED MORE INFORMATION. NOW, CAN THEY GET THAT INFORMATION BEFORE MAY IN ORDER TO MAKE A FULLY INFORMED DECISION. THAT I THINK IS GOING TO DETERMINE WHERE WE END UP. >> TOM, I KNOW YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH YOUR COMPANY ON THIS, I DO HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION, THIS IDEA OF I WANT TO COME BACK TO FARMINGTON AND REALLY IS A JOBS ISSUE. THERE WAS INTERESTING NUMBERS LAID OUT BY SOME OF THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS UP THERE ON THE IMPACT IF THINGS JUST HICCUPPED A LITTLE BIT, NOT A DISASTER, BUT A LITTLE BIT THAT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT UP THERE. >> ABSOLUTELY. IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT SAN JUAN COUNTY COMMISSION IS

IN FAVOR OF THIS. SO, THERE IS A LOT OF ACTIVE DISCUSSION, AS WE SAY, UP THERE. BUT, YEAH, SO I AM NOT EXPERT IN POWER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BUT I KNOW ONE THING, WHAT THE MARKETS LIKE IS CONSISTENCY. AND THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS PARTICULAR AGREEMENT AND THIS RULING BY THE PRC WOULD PROVIDE IS CONSISTENCY. WITHOUT CONSISTENCY, THERE IS CHAOS AT LEAST IN THE MARKETS AND SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS ALWAYS THAT POTENTIAL THAT IF, YOU KNOW, IF THERE IS A SENSE IN THE MARKET THAT SOMETHING HAPPENS, IT COULD HAVE ONE OF THOSE REALLY RIPPLE EFFECTS, NOT JUST IN THE FOUR CORNERS AREA BUT THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND REGION. >> INTERESTING. >> I THINK ONE THING TO KEEP OUR EYE ON IN THE FUTURE ABOUT THIS IS THE ROLE OF THE AG. THE AG IS BEGINNING TO WEIGH IN BUT HE HASN'T COMPLETELY WEIGHED IN. REMEMBER THE AG IS CHARGED WITH REPRESENTING CONSUMERS BEFORE THE PRC AND HE HAS JUST RECENTLY WEIGHED IN ABOUT THE CHARGE, THE TAX, THAT PNM WANTS TO,

AS PART OF THIS PACKAGE, LEVY ON EVERYONE WHO HAS A SOLAR COLLECTOR ON THEIR ROOF. AND, HE HAS ASKED FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT. LOOKS LIKE HE IS GOING TO OPPOSE THAT BUT I THINK THERE IS PROBABLY MORE TO COME FROM THAT DIRECTION. >> PUT SOMETHING ON WHAT TOM SAID, GOING TO YOU ROB HERE, UP IN SAN JUAN COUNTY IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS 41 MILLION IN ANNUAL PAYROLL, 15 AND A HALF IN BENEFITS AND RETAIN EMPLOYEES FOR 14 YEARS. YOU CAN'T REALLY FIND MUCH STABILITY COMPARABLE TO THAT IN A LOT OF THE PARTS OF OUR STATE. THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY FOR THE FOUR CORNERS AREA, IT IS EASY TO SEE WHY THIS IS GOING TO BE REALLY A FOUR CORNERS ARGUMENT AT THE END OF THE DAY IT SEEMS TO ME. >> I THINK SO AND THAT IS ONE THING YOU LEARN WHEN YOU COVER THE LEGISLATURE IS YOU AUTOMATICALLY THINK THAT SOMETIMES THERE CAN BE OPPOSITION UP IN THE FOUR CORNERS AREA, BUT, IN FACT, YOU GET MORE SUPPORT FOR KEEPING THE COAL FIRED PLANT GOING, IN THE LONG RUN FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE UP THERE.

>> THERE IS ALSO A LOT OF HARSH RHETORIC, RADICAL ENVIRONMENTALISTS, WE'RE HEARING AT THE COUNTY COMMISSION. STAY WITH US, MORE FROM THE LINE LATER IN THE HOUR. UP NEXT WE GET UPDATE ON HOW HEALTH EDUCATORS, DOCTORS AND NURSES ARE ADDRESSING HIV HERE THOUGH, NOW IS HOW TO FIX WHAT SOUNDS LIKE REALLY SYSTEMIC MANAGERIAL PROBLEMS WITHIN LOS ALAMOS AND UNFORTUNATELY, PROBLEMS THAT ARE NOT INCONSISTENT WITH I THINK THE GENERAL PERCEPTION OF LOS ALAMOS, WHICH IS THAT KIND OF, I AM A SCIENTIST AND I SAY SO, SO DO IT OR BELIEVE ME. AND I THINK WE ARE IN A PLACE WHERE THAT IS GOING TO BE A LOT LESS POWERFUL, THAT I-AM-A-SCIENTIST RHETORIC. >> MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL ADVOCATES WHO WORK ON PREVENTING SPREAD OF HIV IN NATIVE COMMUNITIES RECENTLY MET IN ALBUQUERQUE AND NEXT WEEK THE ANNUAL NEW

MEXICO HIV CONFERENCE WILL BRINGS DOCTORS, NURSES AND COMMUNITY EDUCATORS TOGETHER TO TALK ABOUT HIV PREVENTION AND TREATMENT IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS OUR STATE. IN FOCUS PRODUCER SARAH GUSTAVUS SAT DOWN WITH LEADERS IN THE FIELD TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IS WORKING AND WHAT MORE COULD BE DONE TO ADDRESS HIV AND AIDS HERE IN NEW MEXICO. >> I AM HERE AT THE TABLE TODAY WITH DR. BRUCE WILLIAMS, MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF UNM TREATMENT HEALTH SERVICE. THANKS FOR BEING HERE. >> THANKS FOR INVITING ME. >> MARTIN WALKER ADVOCATE AND DIRECTOR OF HIV PREVENTION FOR PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF NEW MEXICO. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. >> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME. >> AND AYN WHYTE, STD, HIV AIDS PROGRAM MANAGER FOR ALBUQUERQUE AREA INDIAN HEALTH BOARD. THANKS. WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE WOMAN, I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE MYSELF IN MY TRADITIONAL WAY. [SPEAKING NATIVE LANGUAGE] >> I JUST SAID MY NAME IS AYN FLOWS TOGETHER PEOPLE. I AM BORN FOR THE TOWERING HOUSE

CLAN AND MY MATERNAL GRANDFATHER ARE ZUNI CLAN AND MY PATERNAL GRANDFATHERS ARE MEXICAN. >> SO GLAD TO HAVE YOU ALL WITH US. YOU HAVE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS AS WE LOOK AT HIV PREVENTION AND TREATMENT RIGHT NOW HERE IN NEW MEXICO. >> START US OFF, I UNDERSTAND NUMBERS OF NEW HIV INFECTIONS ARE STAYING THE SAME. PEOPLE SAY THAT IS GOOD, BUT IT IS NOT ACTUALLY A GOOD THING. >> IT IS NOT GOOD. WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY 3200 PEOPLE LIVING IN NEW MEXICO RIGHT NOW. THAT INCREASES BY ABOUT 150 PER YEAR APPROXIMATELY, VARIES FROM YEAR TO YEAR, REMEMBER EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO IS INFECTED HAS THE POTENTIAL FOR INFECTING OTHERS UNTIL THEY ARE IN TREATMENT AND THE VIRUS IS FULLY SUPPRESSED. SO WE HAVE CURRENTLY, OF THAT 3200 PATIENTS, APPROXIMATELY HALF ARE CURRENTLY FULLY ENGAGED IN CARE. OF THOSE, ABOUT 80% HAVE A VIRUS FULLY SUPPRESSED.

THAT LEAVES THE OTHER HALF OUT THERE, WHO ARE POTENTIALLY EXPANDING THE INFECTION TO OTHERS. WE HAVE TO DO MUCH MORE TO PERSONALLY ENGAGE THOSE FOLKS IN CARE AND THEN ALSO HELP NEW MEXICANS AROUND THE STATE PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM GETTING INFECTED. >> WE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH HIV FOR DECADES. PEOPLE KNOW IT EXISTS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THE WAY TO PREVENT IS TO USE CONDOMS OR NOT USE NEEDLES OTHER PEOPLE HAVE USED. WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL GETTING INFECTED? >> THOSE ARE IMPERFECT. THEY ARE GREAT WAYS OF PROTECTING ONESELF. CONDOMS BREAK, CONDOMS FALL OFF, SOMETIMES AREN'T USED IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT AND THAT IS HOW PEOPLE GET INFECTED. WE KNOW THAT PREGNANCY, FOR EXAMPLE, CONDOMS ONLY WORK ABOUT 70 TO 80% OF THE TIME IN PROTECTING AGAINST PREGNANCY. SO IT DOESN'T TAKE MUCH TO THINK THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PROTECT AGAINST INFECTIONS. IT'S NOT A REASON NOT TO USE THEM. IT IS AN IMPORTANT REASON TO USE THEM. HOWEVER, THEY ARE NOT

PERFECT AND NEED TO BE SUPPLEMENTED WITH OTHER MODALITIES. THE NEEDLE EXCHANGE YOU MENTION THAT IS INTERESTING. THE GOVERNOR OF INDIANA HAS JUST DISCOVERED THE NEEDLE EXCHANGE PROGRAM EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT IN PROTECTING HEALTH OF PEOPLE. WE HAVE HAD A NEEDLE EXCHANGE PROGRAM IN NEW MEXICO FOR OVER 20 YEARS, ONE OF THE FIRST IN THE COUNTRY, AND HAS BEEN IMPORTANT IN LIMITING SPREAD OF THIS DISEASE PLUS HEPATITIS C AS WELL AS OTHER INFECTIONS TO A VULNERABLE POPULATION. IT HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL HERE, BUT WE NEED TO SUPPLEMENT THAT WITH OTHER THINGS. >> WHAT ARE PEOPLE DOING IN NATIVE COMMUNITIES THAT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT TO REACH OUT TO FOLKS AND TALK ABOUT THESE ISSUES AND HOW TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF HIV? >> I THINK IN NATIVE COMMUNITIES WE ARE STILL TRYING TO JUST GET BASIC INFORMATION ABOUT HOW HIV IS TRANSMITTED. SOMETIMES TALKING ABOUT SEX AND SEXUALITY CAN BE TABU IN TRIBAL COMMUNITIES

BUT I THINK THAT IS A LOT TO OUR WESTERN WAYS, VIEWS THAT HAVE BEEN IMPOSED UPON OUR PEOPLE. SO, WE HAVE TO RECLAIM OUR WAYS OF THINKING ABOUT SEXUAL HEALTH. AS A NAVAJO WOMAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN A GIRL ENTERS WOMANHOOD THAT IS CELEBRATED. SO OUR WAYS -- YOU KNOW -- WE HAVE GONE TO NOT BEING WILLING TO TALK ABOUT SEX AND SEXUALITY AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST TRYING TO RECLAIM THOSE BEAUTIFUL THINGS ABOUT SEXUALITY AND TRYING TO EDUCATE OUR PEOPLE AND TELLING THEM HOW HIV IS TRANSMITTED AND THAT THEY SHOULD USE CONDOMS AND SHOULD TALK TO THEIR PARTNERS OPENLY ABOUT SEX. >> IS IT DIFFERENT IF A NATIVE PERSON COMES IN TO TALK ABOUT THIS VERSUS SOMEONE ELSE FROM A DIFFERENT COMMUNITY? >> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK MOST COMMUNITIES WOULD

LIKE TO SEE SOMEONE WHO LOOKS LIKE THEM, WHO CAN RELATE TO THEM, AND CAN RELATE TO THEIR CULTURE AND HAS AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE THAT COMMUNITY IS AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THAT COMMUNITY TO START TO HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS AND TALK ABOUT SEXUALITY. >> THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US, AND YOU HAVE BEEN LIVING WITH HIV SINCE 2003. HOW DOES THAT IMPACT HOW YOU TALK TO PEOPLE, MAYBE PEOPLE WHO ARE AT RISK OF GETTING HIV? DOES IT CHANGE THE MESSAGE THAT YOU BRING TO THEM. >> ABOUT THINGS LIKE WHAT IT IS LIKE TO LIVE WITH HIV AND GIVE PEOPLE INFORMATION ABOUT THE TRIALS AND CHALLENGES AND OBSTACLES THAT COME WITH AN HIV DIAGNOSIS AND I THINK THAT HITS HOME A LOT OF THE TIME. A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT I TALK TO, A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE THAT I TALK TO, ESPECIALLY, THEY TELL ME THAT IF THEY JUST KNEW SOMEBODY WITH HIV, IT MIGHT CHANGE THEIR PERSPECTIVE A LITTLE BIT. IT DOESN'T AFFECT

THEIR LIFE IN A WAY THEY CAN TANGIBLY TALK ABOUT IT SO WHEN THEY GET TO ACTUALLY MEET ME OR MEET SOMEBODY LIVING WITH HIV AND TALK TO US ABOUT THE DISEASE FROM AN HONEST, NONJUDGMENTAL PERSPECTIVE, IT IS EFFECTIVE AND IT SEEMS TO BE REALLY EFFECTIVE. >> ONE OF THE THINGS RIGHT NOW THAT IS PART OF THE CONVERSATION IS THAT PEOPLE CAN LIVE PRETTY HEALTHY LIVES TAKING MEDICATION FOR HIV WHICH IS A GREAT THING THAT PEOPLE CAN LIVE A HEALTHY PRODUCTIVE LIFE, BUT MIGHT MAKE PEOPLE THINK IT IS OKAY, I'LL BE OKAY, I CAN TAKE MEDICATIONS. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT? >> THEY CALL IT THE MAGIC JOHNSON EFFECT OR SYNDROME, BECAUSE MAGIC JOHNSON IN 1991 OR '92 DISCLOSED HIS HIV DIAGNOSIS AND, OH, LOOK AT MAGIC JOHNSON. HE WENT BACK TO THE LAKERS AND TO WIN A GOLD MEDAL IN THE OLYMPICS. WE SEE ALL THE ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE HIV MEDICATIONS. YOU SEE WITH PEOPLE ROCK CLIMBING AND MOUNTAIN CLIMBING AND ALL OF THIS AMAZING STUFF. AND IT MUST NOT BE THAT BAD. I CAN TAKE ONE PILL ONCE A DAY

AND I'LL BE FINE. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER THINGS WITH YOUR LIFESTYLE THAT CHANGE ONCE YOU HAVE AN HIV DIAGNOSIS. IN ORDER TO BE HEALTHY AND TO BE LIVING A HEALTHY AND HAPPY LIFE, YOU CHANGE YOUR DIET, YOU TAKE YOUR MEDICATION, YOU'RE CONSTANTLY WORKING ON AND MAKING SURE THE REST OF YOUR HEALTH IS TAKEN CARE OF AND VERY CONSERVATIVE AROUND SEXUAL RISK TAKING. YOU DON'T WANT TO TRANSMIT THE VIRUS T SOMEBODY ELSE OR YOU DON'T WANT TO ACQUIRE ANOTHER TRANSMITTED INFECTION, BECAUSE HAVING HIV MAKES YOU MORE LIKELY TO ACQUIRING OTHER TRANSMITTED INFECTIONS. SO IT IS A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION TO HAVE ABOUT, WELL, IT IS NOT THAT BAD, YOU TAKE ONE PILL ONCE A DAY, YOU LOOK GREAT, WHY WOULD I WORRY ABOUT THAT? YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN THE REST OF THE STUFF, THE BIG PICTURE, ABOUT WHAT COMES ALONG WITH BEING HIV POSITIVE AND THAT IS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE STIGMA AND DISCRIMINATION. AND THAT IS A HUGE ISSUE RIGHT NOW WE WILL CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH. >> HOW DO DOCTORS TALK ABOUT STIGMA THAT MIGHT BE

PART OF THE CONVERSATION? >> I THINK THERE IS MANY LEVELS OF STIGMA. THERE IS SOME STIGMA. THERE IS SELF STIGMA. PEOPLE WHO ARE INFECTED BELIEVE THEMSELVES IN SOME TO THIS BETTER THAN I, FEEL THEMSELVES TO BE SOMEHOW TAINTED AND WE HAVE TO HELP PEOPLE WORK THROUGH THAT TO ACCEPT HIV AS PART OF THEIR LIFE AND TO REALIZE THAT IF OTHER PEOPLE ARE JUDGING THEM, IT IS THEIR PROBLEM, NOT THE PERSON INVOLVED. WE ALSO HAVE SOME STIGMA AMONG, UNFORTUNATELY, AMONG MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL STILL LINGERING PARTICULARLY IN RURAL AREAS, I THINK. MUCH OF THAT IS ACTUALLY DRIVEN BY A CONCERN THAT THEY ARE GOING TO SEE PEOPLE HARMED. SO STIGMA IN THE SENSE OF NOT OF -- IT IS MORE A FEAR OF DOING PEOPLE HARM THAN IT IS OF EXCLUSION. >> NOT HAVING MAYBE THE KNOWLEDGE TO HELP SOMEONE THROUGH THAT DIAGNOSIS AND GET TREATMENT. >> UNM HAS DONE A GREAT JOB IN TRYING TO ALLEVIATE THAT PROBLEM IN NEW MEXICO THROUGH A PROJECT CALLED PROJECT ECHO, WHICH USES VIDEO CONFERENCING

TECHNOLOGY TO LINK LOCAL PROVIDERS TO EXPERTS IN THE FIELD ON A WEEKLY VIDEO CONFERENCING CALL AND THEY PRESENT CASES ANONYMOUSLY AND EVERYONE LEARNS FROM THAT AND THAT HAS BEEN HELPFUL BUT THERE IS STILL, I THINK, A CONCERN THAT THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH PROVIDERS DOWN THE ROAD, BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THIS AND FRANKLY FOR MANY PROVIDERS IT IS VERY LABOR INTENSIVE. THERE IS A LOT OF WORK THAT GOES INTO TAKING CARE OF PEOPLE WITH HIV AND MEDICARE AND OTHERS HAVE NOT REALLY STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE IN TERMS OF REIMBURSEMENT SO THERE HAS BEEN SOME PROBLEMS WITH GETTING ADEQUATE PROVIDERS IN NEW MEXICO. MOST OF US WHO DO IT ARE GETTING OLDER AND WE NEED TO HAVE NEW FACES. >> ARE YOU SEEING MORE YOUNG PEOPLE? >> WE ARE. IN FACT, THAT IS REFLECTED IN THE STATE-WIDE STATISTICS AS OF THE END OF 2013. OF COURSE THE LATER STATISTICS ARE AVAILABLE. THERE WAS A 60% INCREASE IN THE INFECTION AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE AGES 13

TO 24 OVER THE PRIOR YEAR AND WE ACTUALLY, SEVERAL YEARS AGO, UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF DR. MICHELLE DEVELOPED A YOUNG ADULT CLINIC BECAUSE WE SAW THIS TREND BEGINNING AND WE NOW CURRENTLY HAVE 60 TO 70 PATIENTS, YOUNG PEOPLE IN THAT CLINIC. THEY ARE VERY VULNERABLE PARTICULARLY THE YOUNG GAY MEN FOR EXACTLY THE REASONS YOU WERE DESCRIBING BEFORE, BOTH YOU AND MARTIN, IF I GET THIS, I JUST TAKE A PILL AND IT IS NOT A PROBLEM. IN FACT, IT IS A PROBLEM MEDICALLY AS WELL AS SOCIALLY. >> AYN AND MARTIN, WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU THINK THAT ONE OF THE TRENDS IN NEW MEXICO IS YOUNGER PEOPLE BEING INFECTED? >> AT THE HEALTH BOARD WE KIND OF IDENTIFIED THAT BEING A POPULATION THAT NEEDED TO BE TARGETED SO WE JUST FINISHED UP A GRANT IN 2012 THAT ADAPTED A CURRICULUM FOR NATIVE YOUTH BY NATIVE YOUTH SO IT WAS A THREE YEAR PROGRAM AND WE WORK WITH THREE DIFFERENT SITES AND HERE

IN TEXAS TO ADAPT AN EVIDENCE-BASED CURRICULUM THAT WAS ON THE CDC LIST SO WE TOOK A LATINO YOUTH CURRICULUM AND ADAPTED IT FOR THE THREE SITES SO WE'RE CURRENTLY TESTING THAT CURRICULUM AND SHARING THAT CURRICULUM WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN USING IT TO TARGET NATIVE YOUTH AND TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT HOW TO PROTECT THEMSELVES, SEXUALITY AND ALSO SKILL BUILDNG AND DECISION MAKING AS WELL. >> WHAT DID YOU WANT TO SEE NEXT IN ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE IN NEW MEXICO? >> I THINK THAT WE NEED TO DO SOME REALLY GOOD AND SOME HEALTH PLANNING AROUND HOW WE CAN GO ABOUT IMPLEMENTING THIS REALLY NEW AND NOVEL CONCEPT OF PRE-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS. IT IS AN AMAZING NEW TOOL WE HAVE FOR PREVENTING NEW HIV

INFECTION. IT GOES HAND IN HAND WITH TREATMENT WHICH IS ANOTHER REALLY INTERESTING NEW CONCEPT IN THE FIELD OF HIV PREVENTION WHERE THE DOCTOR WAS TALKING EARLIER ABOUT WHEN SOMEBODY HAS HIV AND THEY ARE TAKING MEDICATION AND THE VIRAL LOAD IS SUPPRESSED, THEY ARE MUCH LESS LIKELY TO TRANSMIT THE VIRUS TO SOMEBODY ELSE, SO, THEREFORE, TREATING IS PREVENTING THE TRANSMISSION, BUT WE ALSO HAVE PRE-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS. YOU TAKE ONE OF THE MEDICATION REGIMENS. IT IS CALLED TRUVADA, EVERYDAY, AND IF YOU TAKE IT EVERYDAY IT IS VERY GOOD AT HELPING TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU DON'T GET HIV. IT IS ONLY RECOMMENDED TO BE USED WITH OTHER FULL COMPONENT OF PREVENTION INTERVENTION, SO MAKING SURE THAT SOMEBODY GETS TESTED EVERY THREE MONTHS, THEY STILL HAVE PLENTY OF ACCESS TO CONDOMS, STILL ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT REDUCING THE RISKY BEHAVIORS, BUT REALLY ABOUT ANOTHER TOOL YOU PUT IN YOUR TOOL BOX WHICH GIVES YOU ANOTHER LEVEL OF FEELING PROTECTED BECAUSE LIKE THE DOCTOR SAID, CONDOMS ARE AMAZING BUT THEY DON'T ALWAYS HAPPEN.

STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT MOST GAY MEN AREN'T USING CONDOMS CONSISTENTLY OR CORRECTLY. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE SOME OTHER LEVEL OF PROTECTION AND THAT IS PRE-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS IS I GOING TO DO. WE NEED REALLY GOOD PLANNING, SO NOT PEOPLE THAT CAN AFFORD IT CAN GET IT, BUT AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE ACROSS THE STATE WHO NEED IT. >> IS THERE A FINAL MESSAGE YOU WANT TO SEND PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO? >> GET TESTED, GET CARE, IF YOU'RE POSITIVE AND REMEMBER THAT OTHER THINGS GET TRANSMITTED SEXUALLY BESIDES HIV. >> AYN, A FINAL MESSAGE. >> JUST GET TESTED. WE OFFER FREE RAPID TESTING HERE IN NEW MEXICO SO THERE IS TONS OF PLACES WHERE YOU CAN GET TESTED FOR FREE. >> MARTIN. >> GET TESTED IS ALWAYS OUR MESSAGE. GET TESTED. IF YOU KNOW YOUR STATUS THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE. GET TESTED AND SUPPORT EACH OTHER. LOVE ONE ANOTHER. THIS IS A TOUCHY SUBJECT. IT CAN BE TABU, BUT LOVE ONE ANOTHER. WE ARE ALL PEOPLE. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> TO LEARN MORE ABOUT NEXT WEEK'S STATE-WIDE CONFERENCE ON HIV, VISIT TOPIC THIS WEEK IS THE WASTE ISOLATION PILOT PLANT. A NEW REPORT SHOWS DRUMS OF RADIOACTIVE WASTE AT LOS ALAMOS ARE STABLE. WASTE IS DESTINED FOR WIPP WHICH HAD A RADIATION LEAK AND THERE WAS AN EDITORIAL IN THE JOURNAL THIS WEEK THAT WAS INTERESTING THAT POINTED OUT SIGNIFICANT ISSUES IN LANL'S ROLE IN THE LEAK. YOU THINK THE PUBLIC -- HERE IS MY ODD BALL QUESTION. THIS IS A BIG DEAL. A LOT OF FOLKS, SAFETY ISSUES, BUT MY SENSE IS FOLKS CAN'T QUITE HOOK INTO IT, THE GENERAL PUBLIC. IT SEEMS SO VAGUE AND FAR AWAY AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? AM I OFF ON THAT? WHAT IS YOUR SENSE? BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LOCATION, LOS ALAMOS AND CARLSBAD AREN'T NECESSARILY PLACES PEOPLE GO EVERYDAY. BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS THE SCIENCE OF HOW SCIENCE IS TAKEN CARE OF AND THEN MANAGEMENT. ONE REASON THAT PEOPLE ARE HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING THEIR HEADS AROUND IT IS A LOT OF THIS FOCUSES

ON THE SCIENCE BUT REALLY WHAT IT IS COMES DOWN FLAT AND PLAIN, IT IS A MANAGEMENT ISSUE. AND THE MANAGEMENT ISSUE HAS JUST BEEN TOTALLY MISHANDLED, TO THE POINT WHERE IN 2016, THE TIME WHEN THE CONTRACT WILL BE REVISITED, IF IT IS NOT EXTENDED, I CAN'T SAY WHY IT WOULD BE EXTENDED, EVERYBODY IS STARTING TO LOOK AT, PERHAPS, BECHTEL NOT REALLY THE BEST MANAGER OF LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY AND THEIR CONTRACT RUNS TO 2018, BUT WE'RE ALREADY HEARING THINGS IN THE MARKETPLACE THAT PERHAPS 2016 IS WHEN THIS COULD TAKE PLACE. >> SOPHIE, AGAIN HOW DOES ONE JUDGE A NATIONAL LABORATORY, WHETHER THEY ARE DOING THEIR JOB. WE HAVE TO RELY ON REPORTS FROM FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND CAN'T MAKE A JUDGMENT UNTIL WE GET INFORMATION AND WE DON'T GET A LOT OF INFORMATION. >> WE DON'T GET A LOT OF INFORMATION I AM ACTUALLY GOING TO DISAGREE WITH TOM ON WHETHER THESE ARE ACCESSIBLE ISSUES. THE ISSUE OF THE CAT LITTER WAS, YOU KNOW, A STATE-WIDE JOKE FOR A WHILE THERE, BUT IT TURNS OUT THE CAT LITTER

MATTERED AND CAT LITTER MANY OF US DEAL WITH, BUT THE OTHER THING IS -- >> JUST BEFORE I CAME HERE. >> THE OTHER THING IS AT THE END OF THE DAY, AS TOM WAS SAYING, IT COMES DOWN TO MANAGEMENT AND FOR MANY OF US, WE CAN THINK OF TIMES WE HAVE BEEN WELL MANAGED OR NOT WELL MANAGED. THIS REPORT IS THE MOST ACCESSIBLE INFORMATION WE RECEIVED FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC ABOUT WHAT WENT WRONG AND WE CAN ALL KIND OF GO, YEAH, I CAN SEE HOW THAT WOULD CREATE A BIG PROBLEM. THE ISSUE NOW IS HOW TO FIX WHAT SOUNDS LIKE REALLY SYSTEMIC MANAGERIAL PROBLEMS WITHIN LOS ALAMOS, AND, UNFORTUNATELY, PROBLEMS THAT ARE NOT INCONSISTENT WITH I THINK THE GENERAL PERCEPTION OF LOS ALAMOS, WHICH IS, THAT KIND OF, I AM A SCIENTIST AND I SAY SO, SO DO IT OR BELIEVE ME. AND I THINK WE'RE IN A PLACE WHERE THAT IS A LOT LESS POWERFUL THAT, I-AM-A-SCIENTIST RHETORIC. >> I HAVE HAD SOME FRIENDS TALK ABOUT THIS WHO SAY THERE IS ONLY SO MANY SUBCONTRACTORS YOU CAN THROW UNDER THE BUS AND THEN YOU RUN OUT OF THEM.

THEN IT IS DOWN TO YOU. THE DRUMS WERE NOT STORED CORRECTLY ON THE LANL SITE FOR YEARS. >> THE KEY WORD THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME PREVENTABLE. EVERYTHING WAS PREVENTABLE. AND, THE OTHER ONE WAS THAT THERE WERE WORKERS WHO WERE HANDLING THESE DRUMS AND THEY NOTICED THAT THEY WERE FOAMING AND THAT THERE WAS A YELLOW AND ORANGE SMOKE COMING FROM THEM AND THE MANAGER SAID, NOT TO WORRY, EXPERTS AGREE, EVERYTHING IS FINE. YOU KNOW, WHICH IS THAT KIND OF MENTALITY THAT SOPHIE WAS TALKING ABOUT. AND, THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT TOO, BECAUSE WE SORT OF COMPARTMENTALIZE WHAT GOES ON AT THE DOE AND AT NATIONAL LABS AND THEY ARE OVER THERE AND WE'RE OVER HERE AND WE DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO WITH THEM, ALTHOUGH, IN NEW MEXICO, WE REALLY DO AND THERE IS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IS BEING SPENT,

HALF A BILLION, TO GET WIPP BACK INTO OPERATIONS. >> WE HAVE NEW MANAGEMENT, SPEAKING OF MANAGEMENT. TOM BROUGHT UP, WE HAVE NEW MANAGEMENT, A NEW PERSON THAT IS GOING TO BE OVERSEEING WIPP. HE WAS OVERSEEING ANOTHER FACILITY THAT HAD A LEAK AS WELL, BUT AGAIN WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO JUDGE THESE THINGS. IT IS NOT LIKE SPORTS. YOU DON'T FOLLOW THESE PEOPLE AROUND AND JUDGE THEM AS COMPETENT OR NOT COMPETENT. >> WHAT STRUCK ME ABOUT THIS WAS ABOUT DOE AND LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LAB AND OTHER THE INTERESTING THING WAS THE HEAD OF LOS ALAMOS LAB, CARL MCMILLAN DID NOT FIGHT OR DID NOT DISPUTE THE CONCLUSIONS AND THAT, TO ME, THAT WAS THE MOST STRIKING THING ABOUT THIS. AND, THE OTHER THING TOO WAS A QUOTE FROM THE REPORT, SOME MANAGEMENT AT LANL, QUOTE, WERE NOT RECEPTIVE TO BAD NEWS AND RETALIATED RESPONSE TO REPORTED ISSUES. THAT UNDERSCORES THE POINT THAT

SOPHIE MAKES AND ALSO TOM THAT THIS WAS A MANAGEMENT ISSUE. AND IS A MANAGEMENT ISSUE. >> LET'S CLOSE THAT UP THAT DISCUSSION RIGHT THERE AND MOVE ON TO A FEW MORE INTERESTING THINGS IN THE NEWS IN THE FINAL MINUTES. WE WOULD LIKE TO PUT YOU GUYS ON THE CLOCK TO SHARE YOUR REACTIONS TO THE STORY THAT PUTS A WAY MORE POSITIVE LIGHT ON NEW MEXICO THIS WEEK AND THAT WOULD BE CAROLINE ROTICH, THE RUNNER FROM KENYA, WHO LIVES IN SANTA FE. SHE WAS THE WINNER IN THAT BOSTON MARATHON FINISH. YOU'RE A RUNNER. I AM NOT SURE IF YOU WERE WATCHING OR NOT, YOU HAVE A BUSY DAY. UNLIKE ME, I WATCHED THE WHOLE THING. AN AMAZING THING FOR NEW MEXICO. AM I OUT ON A LIMB HERE? I THINK THIS WAS A VERY HUGE THING FOR SANTA FE. >> HUGE WIN AND I WAS KEEPING TRACK OF IT THROUGH TWITTER. A LOT OF FRIENDS WERE POSTING UPDATES FOR SEVERAL FRIENDS THAT WERE RUNNING OUT THERE. FANTASTIC OPPORTUNITY FOR NEW MEXICO. NEW MEXICO IS A GREAT PLACE TO TRAIN ESPECIALLY SANTA FE. HERE IS WHAT I REALLY LIKE. THIS MARATHONER IS REALLY GIVING BACK TO HER COMMUNITY AND WHAT A FANTASTIC STORY. >> INTERESTING. SOPHIE. >> SHE IS NOT JUST THE WINNER

AT THE BOSTON MARATHON ALTHOUGH THAT MADE A BIG DIFFERENCE FOR US AND FOR HER CAREER, BUT SHE IS TIED FOR FIRST PLACE IN THE ABBOT WORLD MARATHON MAJORS AND SHE IS HERE. IT'S FANTASTIC. >> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE THESE MARATHONERS, THE GLOBAL ENDEAVOR, I MEAN, SHE IS A TWO TIME HALF MARATHONER NEW YORK WINNER. SECOND IN BOSTON MARATHON A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. THIS WOMAN IS NO JOKE. SHE IS REALLY ONE OF THE TOP IN THE WORLD. >> SHE SPEAKS THREE LANGUAGES, JAPANESE, SWAHILI, A VERSION OF SWAHILI AND ENGLISH AS WELL. WHAT A ROLE MODEL FOR THE KIDS AT THE SCHOOL IN SANTA FE, WHERE SHE PARTICIPATES IN THEIR RUNNING CLINICS. >> HARD TO PUT HOW OTHERS JUDGE US FROM THINGS LIKE THIS. HOW DOES THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IF YOU'RE A RUNNER, WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO COME TO SANTA FE? >> WHEN I MOVED HERE FIVE YEARS AGO, I DIDN'T KNOW THE ELEVATION WAS AS HIGH AS IT, BUT ONE THING I WANT TO SAY ABOUT MS. ROTICH IS SHE RAN 26.2 MILES IN TWO

HOURS 24 MINUTES. THAT IS FIVE-AND-A-HALF MINUTES PER MILE. THAT IS HARD THINKING ABOUT. >> IT MAKES ME TIRED THINKING ABOUT IT. >> THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE RIGHT NOW. HEAD TO THE WEBSITE NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG FOR MORE ON THE CLOCK TOPICS. THANK YOU. >> I AM GENE GRANT. AS ALWAYS WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORT TO STAY INFORMED AND ENGAGED AND WE'LL