New Dimensions; The Corporate State; Part 3

<v Michael Toms>Well, it's 9:00 in the city. You're listening to New Dimensions. <v Michael Toms>This is KQED F.M. in San Francisco. <v Michael Toms>My name is Michael Toms. I'm talking with Charles Reich, author of The Greening of <v Michael Toms>America The Sorcerer of Bolinas Reef. <v Michael Toms>And we're talking about the corporate state. <v Michael Toms>Charles, I want to have you share your perspective <v Michael Toms>and vision on how our attitudes and how our own <v Michael Toms>perspectives are shaped in the culture we find ourselves in <v Michael Toms>that we live in, particularly by the media, and how very <v Michael Toms>suddenly throughout our life our attitudes are shaped about <v Michael Toms>how we view the world around us. <v Michael Toms>And just before you answer, I also want to invite our listeners to join in <v Michael Toms>the experience through the phone so you can call us if you have questions for Charles <v Michael Toms>Reich. And the phone number to call is 6-2-1-1-1-2-6. <v Michael Toms>That number again, 6-2-1-1-1-2-6. <v Charles Reich>Well, very few people understand the structure of the broadcast

<v Charles Reich>industry. All channels, radio channels <v Charles Reich>and television channels are owned by the public <v Charles Reich>and they aren't given out by the Federal Communications Commission. <v Charles Reich>And to whom are they given? <v Charles Reich>They are given to the biggest corporations. <v Charles Reich>The television stations are given to the same people who own newspapers, <v Charles Reich>and the television stations are given to the same people who own radio stations. <v Charles Reich>So over and over again, you get a city with the newspaper, the television <v Charles Reich>station, the radio station, all in the same hands. <v Charles Reich>That is the doing of the public agency called the Federal Communications <v Charles Reich>Commission. It doesn't need to be that way. <v Charles Reich>These could be in different hands. They could be in many hands. <v Charles Reich>They could be shared by many community groups. <v Charles Reich>So it represents a very, very limiting <v Charles Reich>decision to to give this tiny monopoly.

<v Charles Reich>Why should a network like CBS, NBC, ABC <v Charles Reich>own individual television stations as they do? <v Charles Reich>Why should they own radio stations? <v Charles Reich>Why should there be a network for that matter? <v Charles Reich>All of these are questions of public policy which <v Charles Reich>Congress and therefore the people can change anytime we become aware <v Charles Reich>of this. So our- our communications channels <v Charles Reich>are really used by only a tiny minority <v Charles Reich>of the great nation that we all live in. <v Charles Reich>And they ought to be open to everybody. <v Charles Reich>And it's a very arbitrary thing to to give the television <v Charles Reich>station to the owner of the newspapers. Think about that. <v Charles Reich>That means that you're gonna hear the same voice where the open the paper, whether you <v Charles Reich>look at TV or whether you turn on the radio. <v Charles Reich>And it seems to me that we should be shocked by that. <v Charles Reich>We should realize that that can only lead to a kind <v Charles Reich>of thought control, a kind of limiting of our imagination,

<v Charles Reich>a kind of squeezing us, suffocating us, <v Charles Reich>keeping new ideas off the air. <v Charles Reich>And in city after city, we see that monopoly, and that <v Charles Reich>is an artificial monopoly. There's no reason for that. <v Charles Reich>The airwaves are public, and we don't most of us seem to even know <v Charles Reich>that. <v Michael Toms>The relationship of the media to the corporate state that you've been talking <v Michael Toms>about. The fact of the matter is, is that most commercial, in fact, literally <v Michael Toms>all commercial broadcasting is at- in- under <v Michael Toms>the control of the corporate state because it's supported by advertising that <v Michael Toms>makes the programs happen and that relates back to the numbers and programs in order to <v Michael Toms>be popular, have to reach the numbers and it goes back to the source, which is the <v Michael Toms>advertising that keeps that happening. <v Michael Toms>So the two things are tied, aren't they? <v Charles Reich>Well, they certainly are. <v Charles Reich>They're tied even more than that because most people don't realize that <v Charles Reich>advertising is paid for by the public.

<v Charles Reich>You see, advertising is tax deductible. <v Charles Reich>So what happens is that advertising really <v Charles Reich>works as a tax deduction for the corporation that advertises. <v Charles Reich>And as a result, it becomes a public subsidy. <v Charles Reich>When you see some annoying ad on TV, you are the one that's paying for it <v Charles Reich>and you're paying for it because the tax reduction that <v Charles Reich>results from that ad is going to add to your tax bill. <v Charles Reich>Instead, you're going to have to pay for what the advertiser gets as a deduction. <v Charles Reich>Now, in addition to that, the very idea that advertising <v Charles Reich>should be the way that television is supported is an idea that should be <v Charles Reich>questioned and challenged. <v Charles Reich>It's perfectly feasible to support television, radio and newspapers in <v Charles Reich>ways other than through advertising, and we ought to think about that. <v Charles Reich>We ought to realize that-. <v Michael Toms>Goes back to the current challenge that we're facing in New Dimensions. <v Michael Toms>[Other speaker: Well, of course it does], because we're doing it without advertising.

<v Charles Reich>We- we- we assume in this country that <v Charles Reich>the the dollar must be the bottom line. <v Charles Reich>But there are many other kinds of bottom lines in our society. <v Charles Reich>One is the spiritual and moral health of the people. <v Charles Reich>And if that were the bottom line, then we'd say, well, we better let <v Charles Reich>these public channels be used by all the different groups, by all the different <v Charles Reich>points of view, by all the different ideas, by all the different people <v Charles Reich>who have something to create or some idea to bring across. <v Charles Reich>And then we'd have not only quality on television and radio, but <v Charles Reich>we'd also have the clash of ideas, we'd have the challenge. <v Charles Reich>We'd have all kinds of choices <v Charles Reich>presented to us. You know, we're- we're told that America <v Charles Reich>is a country that no longer believes in its future, no less a person <v Charles Reich>than the president of the United States just told us that. <v Charles Reich>Well, why is that? That's because the people who think about the future

<v Charles Reich>are excluded from the media and excluded from the airwaves. <v Charles Reich>People who have crazy ideas or futuristic ideas are utopian. <v Charles Reich>Ideas are a better way of doing things. <v Charles Reich>You never hear from them. They can't get on the air. <v Charles Reich>Only the people who have the present as a vested interest <v Charles Reich>are permitted on the air. So in effect, for the public, there is no <v Charles Reich>future because the future is not being presented. <v Charles Reich>It's not being envisioned. It's not being created. <v Charles Reich>And that's the way that the media serves the corporate state. <v Michael Toms>Yeah, except through a few little glimmers of light where the future comes <v Michael Toms>through things like New Dimensions and other little radio programs or a little TV <v Michael Toms>programs that appear here and there where people are trying to get another vision out to <v Michael Toms>people. <v Charles Reich>Well, you know, if we set to work on New Dimensions and in other places <v Charles Reich>to start imagining how things could be different if we let our imaginations <v Charles Reich>go and we say, let's accept the idea of democracy, let's accept

<v Charles Reich>the idea of freedom, let's accept the idea of equality. <v Charles Reich>What are all the different permutations and different varieties <v Charles Reich>of economic life and political life that are compatible with those <v Charles Reich>ideals? We would find that the human imagination could think of so <v Charles Reich>much, so many new ways to do things, so many ways to enlarge <v Charles Reich>our horizons, to explore into new areas. <v Charles Reich>And that's what shut off. <v Charles Reich>And it shut off as a matter of policy. <v Charles Reich>It's a deliberate shut off. And that's why when you hear a president say Americans <v Charles Reich>don't believe in the future, that's- that's really a- either <v Charles Reich>an ignorant statement or a hypocritical statement, because it's a statement that doesn't <v Charles Reich>understand that Americans aren't given a chance to think <v Charles Reich>and talk and debate about the future. <v Charles Reich>As as we maybe can write here as long as New Dimensions <v Charles Reich>continues.

<v Michael Toms>Yes, we have lots of lights lit up. <v Michael Toms>And if you're trying to call us, keep trying. <v Michael Toms>There'll be some lines that will open up. Let's take a phone call. <v Michael Toms>Hello. You're on the air. <v Caller 1>Hello. I don't question anything that you said. <v Caller 1>I myself have come up against the same forces, corporate forces, even in my <v Caller 1>private life. But I do see some chink in the armor. <v Caller 1>And sometimes I like to look at things from just a slightly different point of view. <v Caller 1>For one thing, I think not being a historian, by the way, but it seems to me that the <v Caller 1>whole industrial revolution, of which the corporate state is maybe the- the- <v Caller 1>the climax [laughter] is kind of the <v Caller 1>running to an extreme of the whole macho, masculine quality <v Caller 1>in mankind. And that's what we're getting now in many <v Caller 1>ways is the balance of the feminine. <v Caller 1>Now, this is slowly seeping in, but it is nevertheless <v Caller 1>seeping in. Also, there are more and more people who are no longer

<v Caller 1>willing to spend their lives in an 9 to 5 drudgery <v Caller 1>in a job that just gives them money and nothing else, no other satisfaction. <v Caller 1>And I think those are the kind of jobs that the corporate state depends <v Caller 1>on. And the more people are unwilling to give <v Caller 1>up all satisfaction for just the financial return, the <v Caller 1>more you'll find little chinks are going to begin to happen. <v Caller 1>And perhaps this is still underground. <v Caller 1>But. I do think that it is beginning to happen, so it really may start with <v Caller 1>consciousness, a change of consciousness and individual consciousness, of course, that <v Caller 1>goes along with responsibility. <v Caller 1>But I do think that things are happening. <v Caller 1>That may not be too visible. <v Caller 1>I also don't totally go along with the idea that we're not given a chance. <v Caller 1>Even in my immediate family, I find that there are members who, when they're not <v Caller 1>eating or sleeping, are out at some shopping center or buying.

<v Caller 1>And I think that we have that decision to make, too, whether we <v Caller 1>have so much in love with a product that this that this state, <v Caller 1>this produce, it set the gross national product is <v Caller 1>is our god that we can make a decision, just like you said at the beginning, <v Caller 1>we consumers can make a decision that this is not going to be our God. <v Charles Reich>Well, let me make a couple of comments. <v Charles Reich>First of all, I agree with a great deal of what you say. <v Charles Reich>I'd like to suggest a vision of a American society <v Charles Reich>where women had as many positions of importance as <v Charles Reich>men. And I would like to suggest that if we just try to imagine that, we'll see <v Charles Reich>how different things might be. <v Charles Reich>If we could imagine a Supreme Court with four or five women where there have never <v Charles Reich>there's never been a single woman in the history of the Supreme Court 200 years and ever <v Charles Reich>been a woman on the Supreme Court. <v Charles Reich>I'd like to think about a cabinet that was composed of half women and on <v Charles Reich>through the government that would change things immensely.

<v Charles Reich>We have to first dream it before it can happen. <v Charles Reich>We have to first imagine that. We have to picture it first. <v Charles Reich>Now, what you said about buying is very true, but I <v Charles Reich>want to bring up the word 'addiction.' It is part of the deliberate <v Charles Reich>policy of the corporate state to create all kinds <v Charles Reich>of addictions, not just the addictions to drugs and other things of <v Charles Reich>that sort. But addictions to consumer goods, addictions, two <v Charles Reich>kinds of pastimes, addictions to all sorts of things that <v Charles Reich>we think we need, but we don't really need. <v Charles Reich>So it really isn't enough to simply criticize <v Charles Reich>the people who are addicted. It's more important to make them aware of <v Charles Reich>the fact that they have suddenly and without their realizing have been <v Charles Reich>made victims and therefore it's going to be a great struggle for them to get <v Charles Reich>unhooked. Thank you for your call. <v Michael Toms>Our phone number here is 6-2-1-1-1-2-6. If the lines are busy keep trying.

<v Michael Toms>Hello. You're on the air? <v Caller 2>Yes. My name's Warren. I'm from ?San Rafael.? <v Michael Toms>Hi, Warren <v Caller 2> In response to the previous callern you know, I think <v Caller 2>this idea, though, I am right now, I'm a hundred <v Caller 2>percent vested in a profit sharing plan by work. <v Caller 2>No. But I don't have control over the dividends. <v Caller 2>I have ideas how the dividends could be used to <v Caller 2>help people, but not how they go about that. <v Michael Toms>Charles? <v Charles Reich>Well, I don't see any way to go about it except the way that we've <v Charles Reich>talked about everything else. That is enough of the people who are involved in the <v Charles Reich>plan must assert themselves to the degree that they take control. <v Charles Reich>This is a matter of activity versus passivity. <v Charles Reich>One person out of many cannot do it. <v Charles Reich>Many together can do it.

<v Charles Reich>So it's a case of whether you can bring the others who were involved in the plan to <v Charles Reich>kind of find some common ground and therefore act. <v Charles Reich>I would like to point out to you that another of the <v Charles Reich>devices that's used by the corporate state is the device of divide and <v Charles Reich>conquer. There is a extraordinary <v Charles Reich>ability on the part of the corporate state to make people feel that they <v Charles Reich>represent opposing interests. <v Charles Reich>We're all in a rat race. We're all competing against each other. <v Charles Reich>We can't trust each other. We all have separate things that we want. <v Charles Reich>And so the difficult job for a person like you is to discover <v Charles Reich>and point out common interests way that compromises can be worked out <v Charles Reich>so that a whole group of people can find one thing to agree on. <v Charles Reich>That isn't easy. And that's a job for your imagination and for the imagination of others. <v Caller 2>How about the Jung's principle of synchronicity? <v Charles Reich>Well, how about it? You tell me.

<v Caller 2>Well, you know, it's a thing that's going to happen at a given moment. <v Charles Reich>Are you suggesting something is going to happen without a person actively getting their <v Charles Reich>adrenalin going and going out and doing it? <v Caller 2>It's stimulated along the lines. <v Charles Reich>See, I believe that things happen when somebody does something, and it's just <v Charles Reich>as simple as that. I think that- that's the way we're made as human beings. <v Caller 2>Maybe I'll start that over next week, believe me, and then maybe I'll get in touch with <v Caller 2>Michael Toms at New Dimensions and supporting his group. <v Charles Reich>Well, that's wonderful. Thank you for your call. <v Caller 2>OK. <v Michael Toms>Thank you. <v Caller 2>Goodbye <v Michael Toms>Our phone number here is 6-2-1-1-1-2-6. <v Michael Toms>Hello, first name and where you're calling from. <v Caller 3>Well, my name is Tom, and I'm in Hayward. <v Michael Toms>Hi, Tom. <v Caller 3>And first of all, I'd like to thank Dr. Reich for changing my <v Caller 3>life. Early 70s, his book got me on a certain path, but that <v Caller 3>I haven't recovered from yet. [laughter] <v Charles Reich>I hope it's a good one.

<v Caller 3>I think so. I haven't joined the corporations yet. <v Caller 3>The question I have regards scales of economy. <v Caller 3>And I'm wondering if, as you see it, if large <v Caller 3>corporations or perhaps, you know, put this in the past tense now <v Caller 3>or perhaps a necessary part of an industrial and industrialization <v Caller 3>to obtain goods that were necessitated <v Caller 3>very large expansive capital outlay called rolling <v Caller 3>steel mills, automobiles, what not. <v Caller 3>Not that I'm suggesting that those things are necessarily essentials for men, <v Caller 3>but that they seem to be the predominant, predominant <v Caller 3>requirements for modern civilizations. <v Caller 3>Now, I'm wondering if my own pet theory, and I'd like your criticism of this, <v Caller 3>is that as energy became very inexpensive, <v Caller 3>that is that we didn't have to pay the ecological prices for it, I'm wondering <v Caller 3>if the growth of corporations not just paralleled that,

<v Caller 3>but were inextricably interwoven with cheap <v Caller 3>energy. And the converse of this would be yes, as we start <v Caller 3>paying the ecological prices, if we can plan, I'd see the diminution <v Caller 3>of corporate growth as energy becomes more and more expensive. <v Caller 3>But I'm wondering if you see corporations <v Caller 3>and the corporate status as perhaps an interlude to <v Caller 3>a better society in the future. I'd also like to hear what your <v Caller 3>what your vision the road would be 30, 40 years from <v Caller 3>now. <v Charles Reich>Well, first, thanks for what you said about my book. <v Charles Reich>And on the subject of scale, I think that <v Charles Reich>there ought to be a great variety of scales. <v Charles Reich>There- there are some productive processes that do require massive machinery <v Charles Reich>and a great many people working together.

<v Charles Reich>But at the same time, we ought to remember that- that many of our giant corporations <v Charles Reich>are the result of deliberate squeezing out of competition, <v Charles Reich>the aggrandizement of power of of means <v Charles Reich>used as John D Rockefeller, the first used to force all his <v Charles Reich>competitors out of business. <v Charles Reich>And those kinds of corporate growth have nothing whatever <v Charles Reich>to do with economies of scale. <v Charles Reich>They're simply power grabs. <v Charles Reich>So what I'm suggesting is that we're going to be able to reevaluate <v Charles Reich>scale. We're going to say, is this large scale really needed <v Charles Reich>for production or for control or for distribution? <v Charles Reich>Or is it simply there because somebody wants to be all powerful? <v Charles Reich>And I think we'll have to do a great sorting out job and we'll find <v Charles Reich>some things that have to be done nationally, some things that need to be done regionally, <v Charles Reich>many, many more things that can be done locally. <v Charles Reich>So scale is one of the things where there's going to be a great deal of possibilities

<v Charles Reich>for new imagination. <v Charles Reich>Now, on your second question, the question of what I imagine <v Charles Reich>in 30 years, it seems to me that we're going to <v Charles Reich>be proceeding from a society that is essentially <v Charles Reich>obsessed with only material goods to <v Charles Reich>a society where human services become the most <v Charles Reich>important thing that we have to offer each other and where material goods are <v Charles Reich>there in the service of human needs. <v Charles Reich>And as an adjunct to human services. <v Charles Reich>And then the human being will grow in value and <v Charles Reich>the machine will be reduced in value. <v Charles Reich>The- the human service will become important. <v Charles Reich>And the the good itself will become only an adjunct to the service. <v Charles Reich>So my vision is of a society where what human beings <v Charles Reich>know and do is far more important than things.

<v Charles Reich>And I believe that this transition can be made in a gentle, <v Charles Reich>gradual way without a destructive upheaval. <v Charles Reich>If the people can take some kind of control <v Charles Reich>now and begin to bring it about. But if that control is <v Charles Reich>not arrested from the corporate state, we're going to have an explosion. <v Charles Reich>We're going to have. A recession, a depression that will lead to an explosion. <v Charles Reich>So I hope we can have a gentler transition to a society where <v Charles Reich>what people do is the most important thing. <v Charles Reich>Thank you. <v Caller 3>Thank you. <v Michael Toms>Thanks for your call. <v Michael Toms>Our phone number here is 6-2-1-1-1-2-6. <v Michael Toms>And our engineer, Phil Catalpa was reminding me that <v Michael Toms>I should be more pronounced in my asking you to support us. <v Michael Toms>And I'm perfectly serious when they say that New Dimensions is <v Michael Toms>in financial crisis and we may not be here unless we get your support.

<v Michael Toms>If you want to participate in supporting us, what I suggest you do is you call us at the <v Michael Toms>office during normal work office hours beginning at 9:00 on Monday morning. <v Michael Toms>Our phone number is 6-2-1-1-1-2-6. <v Michael Toms>And we'll be happy to tell it tell you directly how you can help us. <v Michael Toms>And so I just want to put that put that in our phone number again, 6-2-1-1-1-2-6. <v Michael Toms>We're talking with Charles Reich. <v Michael Toms>Hello. You're on the air. First name, please. <v Caller 4>First name is Steven. <v Michael Toms>Hi, Steven. Where are you calling from? <v Caller 4>Berkeley. <v Michael Toms>Hi, Steven. <v Caller 4>OK. <v Michael Toms>You have a question? <v Caller 4>I got two things. First is talking about synchronicity. <v Caller 4>I was about to talk about the same thing that you just talked about. <v Caller 4>In fact, just hearing you say that, you know, you were in financial <v Caller 4>difficulties aside from the fact that you threw a couple of benefits. <v Caller 4>You know, first I knew about it. <v Michael Toms>Yes. The last benefit didn't make any money. <v Michael Toms>And so that's one of the reasons for our crisis. <v Caller 4>Okay. Well, I have a very strong suggestions and ?inaudible?

<v Caller 4>a very deep connection with New Dimension. <v Michael Toms>Yes. Well, any suggestions are completely welcome. <v Caller 4>All right. Is you cease having guests on the show <v Caller 4>and you begin to talk about New Dimensions, and you begin to actively say <v Caller 4>you want to show on the air, put you know feet, because <v Caller 4>if you don't know you, it's not like you're on every day. <v Michael Toms>That's right. <v Caller 4>So I would appreciate if you use the time to get the money so that you don't have to <v Caller 4>worry about it so that you can, you know, so that the energies. <v Michael Toms>That's a good suggestion. That's a good suggestion. <v Michael Toms>Thank you. Okay. <v Michael Toms>Any others? <v Caller 4>Not about that. <v Michael Toms>Okay. <v Caller 4>That's what I'd like you to do [Other speaker: Sure]. Instead of- when New Dimensions <v Caller 4>comes on until you get the money you need. <v Michael Toms>Yes <v Caller 4>It's just- You know, put it out so people- you know, you bring it into our awareness. <v Michael Toms>Right. Good. <v Caller 4>Okay. <v Michael Toms>Did you have a question? <v Caller 4>Well, I- yes, sort of. <v Michael Toms>Okay. <v Caller 4>A comment for Charles because I've been listening to him on your shows for a while now. <v Michael Toms>Yes.

<v Caller 4>And it's like the vision you see. <v Caller 4>And like the whole thing at a corporate structure, you know, like <v Caller 4>uh- When you look at the appearances, it almost looks like it's here forever, you know, <v Caller 4>because it's so vast. <v Caller 4>But it's like maybe for those of us who are really allowing <v Caller 4>different types of energy coming in. <v Caller 4>It's like a test of faith. I mean, whether on this planet, in this place, <v Caller 4>we can actually make a heaven on earth, who knows that? <v Caller 4>You know, but if we really believe that the truth is what makes us all live. <v Caller 4>And that there's such a thing called life force, then we have to- we just really dedicate <v Caller 4>our lives to the truth, no matter what it- what it is that's going around us. <v Caller 4>You know, these are the thoughts I'm telling myself because sometimes I look at that <v Caller 4>stuff or, you know, that they're poisoning the food. <v Caller 4>They're doing this to doing that. People are buying cars. <v Caller 4>I'm doing this. I'm doing that. <v Caller 4>You know what you do? You just. All I can think of is like when Rhonda says you center <v Caller 4>and you just start being a different type of energy and you just have faith.

<v Caller 4>You know, living faith because your life is changing. <v Caller 4>Your cells are changing. Your awareness is changing. <v Caller 4>You just have to do that and let it go. <v Charles Reich>Well, I have a couple of different ideas on the same <v Charles Reich>subject. <v Charles Reich>One of them is that it's very, very important to get scared. <v Charles Reich>It's very, very important to get in touch with the real danger and the <v Charles Reich>real antagonism toward life that the corporate state represents, the <v Charles Reich>real threat that it presents to each of us, and <v Charles Reich>that it is indeed something to be scared of. <v Charles Reich>Because, you see, that's the way you activate the energy <v Charles Reich>in you is by by feeling threatened, by feeling the reality of <v Charles Reich>the danger. You may come up with some new ideas. <v Charles Reich>You may come up with some new resources. <v Charles Reich>So I allow myself to get plenty scared a lot of the time. <v Charles Reich>And I take my fears very seriously.

<v Charles Reich>And I think that that's the very fundamental thing that that many <v Charles Reich>people tend to defend themselves against. <v Charles Reich>Many people don't like to feel scared and they tried to fend it off. <v Charles Reich>I don't believe in that. I think that. <v Charles Reich>Being scared is-. <v Caller 4>It's like a signal. [Charles Reich: Well] Like- like if you stub your toe, you realize you hurt yourself. <v Charles Reich>Correct. You know, there's such a thing as as a false fear, a fear of nothing at all. <v Charles Reich>And then there's such a thing as a real fear. <v Charles Reich>And the corporate state is something that you've got to be really afraid of. <v Charles Reich>Now, the other thing is that I really believe <v Charles Reich>in action. I believe in spontaneity. <v Charles Reich>I believe in daring. I believe in boldness. <v Charles Reich>I believe in doing things that I know have been done before. <v Charles Reich>I don't think that for me at least, it's enough to to <v Charles Reich>wait around and to see if energy comes your way. <v Charles Reich>So what I do is I- I look for ways to <v Charles Reich>do things that are different. I look for ways to reach out and new

<v Charles Reich>directions. And sometimes when I do turns out to be a mistake, it turns out to be <v Charles Reich>a poorly conceived experiment. <v Charles Reich>It turns out to be something I'd never want to do again. <v Charles Reich>But you see, what I keep on doing is challenging the existing <v Charles Reich>reality. I keep on saying, how about this way? <v Charles Reich>How about that? Why? How about doing something new? <v Charles Reich>And then you must do it, thinking it is nothing. <v Charles Reich>You must do it because it is only doing that changes things. <v Charles Reich>It changes you, and it changes those who see you change. <v Charles Reich>And so I am a great proponent of being a person of action. <v Charles Reich>And I think that not everyone needs to adopt that style. <v Charles Reich>But it's a style where you are impulsive side. <v Charles Reich>Your spontaneous side is allowed some freedom. <v Charles Reich>And that's where change is going to come from, I believe, anyway. <v Charles Reich>Thanks. <v Caller 4>Thank you. <v Michael Toms>Thank you for your call. [Caller 4: Right] Our phone number here is 6-2-1-1-1-2-6.

<v Michael Toms>We're gonna take some more calls in just a minute. <v Michael Toms>If you're on the line, stay in there. We'll be with you in- very shortly, we're talking <v Michael Toms>with Charles Wright. You're listening to New Dimensions. <v Speaker>[Song: With a Little Help From My Friends by Joe Cocker]