New Dimensions; World Future Society; Part 4

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>You know, in the real sense of the word, moral means concern for the whole. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Only through the discovery of that matrix will we have the <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>the ability to use the powers. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So I have become extremely humble in <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>the sense that what the human race is doing is discovering a pattern <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>and then co-creating with it. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>It isn't to say that we're just passive in relationship to the pattern our energy is <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>required, but it's an energy that isomorphic with the pattern. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And if we get too far off from that pattern, the evolutionary process will select <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>us out. And I think an enormous viability test is going on right now <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>between our terrestrial earthbound phase and our universal <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>phase. And if we miss out on any of our major systems, like if we <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>have atomic war, we probably won't make it. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>If we pollute our environment, we won't make it. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>If we can't develop social equitable systems of distribution, we won't make it. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>However, to make all those things that are problems to solve them,

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I believe we need to get started on our new capacities. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>This is a very deep controversy and there's certainly no known answer. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Many people say we shouldn't start on these things until we've learned to cooperate <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>because- 'my God, Barbara, you're saying we should put all our fighting up into space and <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>here we are we can't get along with each other.' So there are a lot of truth to that. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>But then I say, what is going to make us behave better? <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Is it going to be guilt? <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>If so, that-that some of the religions of the world would have made us a great race <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>by and by now, because we've been guilty for 2,000years. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>[laughter] <v Larry Guice> At least. [laughter] <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Then, is it going to be punishment? <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Maybe punishment has some effect. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>But are you really going to become a great and co-creative spirit, a species <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>out of being punished for what you did wrong? <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Would a child? No. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So it is my faith and this is an act of faith that <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>in order for us to stop polluting, stop building nuclear bombs, stop

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>fighting and stop over consuming. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>We need to be attracted to something that's more interesting. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And I've thought about the idea of nature putting the capacity to be excited at <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>the core of creation. For example, insects. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>It's very interesting. A bored man can't have a baby. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>The women can fake it, but the men can't. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Now a bored species is not going to be able to make it. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And if we just get hit with guilt and we are not attracted, we won't make it. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So my piece of this and those who share this particular part of the <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>function is to add to the feeling of fear the- the <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>even greater sense of attraction. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So I think we can divert our attention from destruction to the degree that we become <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>genuinely attracted to co-creation. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>But that's an act of faith. <v Michael Toms>It's an act of faith. One of the things that- lots of gems in your book- but one of the <v Michael Toms>things I wrote down was something there was that you said, 'When I became

<v Michael Toms>totally committed, I became totally free.' And <v Michael Toms>what that- what that told me, what that said to me was that when you give 100 percent, <v Michael Toms>then you really have freedom. It's like so many of us go around withholding part of <v Michael Toms>ourselves because we're afraid we're gonna lose our freedom. <v Michael Toms>You know, it's like. And part of gaining freedom is just really giving up to the <v Michael Toms>process. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Yes. The first step for me in being able to become totally <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>committed was to discover what to be committed to. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And that was for me, the discovery that there is a pattern in the evolutionary <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>process. And it's going on now and I can discover it, and I can <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>participate in it. And even in a deeper sense, I am it. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And here we get into those paradoxes, because if the evolutionary process created all of <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>us, we are embodiments of it. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And what we're discovering is ourself. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And then when I became attracted to that process in the sense of sensing

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>its goodness because its leading to higher consciousness and freedom, I became attracted <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>to total participation. It's very much like falling in love. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So it didn't feel to me like a surrender so much as it did as <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>giving myself totally to love. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I fell in love with it. And in so doing, I became totally free <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>because what I was committing to was that which is the freeing <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>process of evolution. Those words sound pretty fuzzy, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>but I've been thinking the phrase in the Bible, the truth shall make you free. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And I didn't make up the truth, but in discovering it, I become free because <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>it's attractive to follow it. <v Larry Guice>Yeah. I want to go -Yeah, let me just do this. <v Larry Guice>I want to go back to something you said way in the beginning about this kind of <v Larry Guice>sense of the future, of a kind of pre-destined idea of the future, and to just <v Larry Guice>tie that together, that once you tune into that destiny, let's say or <v Larry Guice>fate, as people would call it, that- that's your freedom because you are

<v Larry Guice>now so totally unified in what's your most optimal <v Larry Guice>function is that- that- that is freedom. <v Larry Guice>You're free from that kinds of doubts and insecurities and anxieties and <v Larry Guice>all these things that you think you're really trying to get free from, really you do get <v Larry Guice>free from. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Yes, you do. And of course, in my life there's been a lots of ups and downs <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>when I feel that I am not understanding that pattern, which has happened quite often <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>and have gotten off track by doing something that doesn't quite work. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I will get a signal which I have learned to be very sensitive to. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>In my case, it's depression. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I will feel- I'll think everything's going well. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And then suddenly there's this unaccountable depression and it gets deeper and deeper. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And I've learned to be very grateful that my depressions are deep because I <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>have to pay attention to them. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I can't ignore them. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>[laughter] And I've learned to take long walks and I'll say, 'OK, what's bothering you? <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>What is it? Come on, out with it.' And I find that depression doesn't

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>want to tell me at first because part of it is-is hurt and loss <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>and so forth. And then I finally pull it out. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And then I can recalibrate and get back onto the pattern. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And one of the techniques of evolutionary self-management is <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>if you are a person who is has a calling, literally a vocation, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>and that vocation is not socially modeled yet. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And you- you obviously have to calibrate all the time because you are following <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>something that for which there is no external model. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>You can use your own emotional signals to guide you along with depression <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>as a signal that I'm off track. I have another one I call a compass of joy. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And whenever I feel deep empathy and flow and joy, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I know that I'm going the right way. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So I try to go a little more along those lines and I really develop. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I keep a journal, and I have now lots of things I do <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>which I found other people do as well.

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>In my meditation, I ask- [cough] Excuse me. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I get an answer about what I should do. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Then I dialog with my emotions that might not want to do it. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I put square quotation marks and different kinds of quotation marks. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I finally get the whole act together when I get back on the track, and then I'm free <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>again. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>[cough] But you do tend to get off track, and I don't want to give the impression of <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>having continual smooth flow. <v Larry Guice>Right. I don't either. That's my experience as well. <v Michael Toms>We're talking with Barbara Marx Hubbard. <v Speaker>[Song: On the Road of Experience by John Denver] <v Michael Toms>We've been flying like eagles here in this conversation.

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I love that music, Michael. <v Michael Toms>Barbara, you wanted to- we wanted to explore and kind of expand our conversation about <v Michael Toms>the new capacities, and you had some more things to say about that. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Well, due to my experience at this recent Act 3 seminar <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>in Los Angeles, I came to an awareness that a new social function is needed <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>and was emerging out of bringing together the understanding of the new capacities, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>which are mainly science and technology, but includes expanding understanding of <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>consciousness. And- and our deepening intuitive <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>capabilities of tuning into the blueprint process <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>with those members of the power structure who are wanting <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>to evolve their systems as well as themselves personally, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>and that this is a function which the Church <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>used to serve in some ways that may be- become more stabilized <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>in society. That is to say, we're really all trying to understand God's plan

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>to put it in religious language. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>None of us invented God's plan, but we are in the process of discovering it <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>and becoming responsible at a higher level for carrying it out. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>If you're scientific, you could call it evolutionary co-creation. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>If you're religious, you say you're working with God's plan at a more responsible level. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>If so, we really need places which are non-threatening and non-antagonistic, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>where the scientific information that's pouring in about what we can do and actually <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>learning to do more of it can meet with the intuitive resonance <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>with the plan, with those members of society who are <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>willing to operate for the common good in their institutional roles. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Act 3- I saw in Los Angeles in a little tiny embryonic <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>way performing that service. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>It's such a needed service and it was so exciting. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And I'd like to add the dimension of the arts, which we did not have in Los Angeles. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>You know, the great Gothic cathedrals were multimedia events and you can't

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>walk into one without knowing there's a new possibility. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So we need social functions where the arts <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>would create, I would think, a cosmic environment with a lot of multimedia <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>laser, beautiful music where we would hear this exquisite <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>information coming in from the sciences with the exquisite attunement that some <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>people are developing with the really serious <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>moral concern of certain people who are powerful. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And there are some and see how we can together discover <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>the matrix and the real thing about it is that it's all win game. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>It really helps the scientists. It doesn't say to you, 'you can't look at recombinant DNA <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>or you have to stop doing space colonization.' It says, how can we do it well? <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>It doesn't say to the intuitive, 'you have to go back and, you know, just sit <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>in the country and get rid of all this power because it's destructive.' It asks them to <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>help inform the power. And then it also respects those in positions of responsibility.

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And everyone starts behaving at their best. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So I would like to hear in San Francisco develop the model more consciously <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>and invite people who would like to help develop this model to be with us that weekend <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>on the 18th and 19th. <v Michael Toms>And lots of us here that think that somehow San Francisco is more conscious than Los <v Michael Toms>Angeles. [laughter] I don't know why we think that. [laughter] <v Larry Guice>That old rivalry - state rivalry. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And I think of our genius, somewhat like the wise men bringing gifts to the <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Christ child are genius, want to bring gifts to the cosmic child. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>But the cosmic child has been sticking its tongue out at its genius recently. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Said, [sounds of crying] Don't bother me, but I'm too busy crying. <v Michael Toms>Let me give that information again to how people can find out about that. <v Michael Toms>You can find out about Act 3, which A New Dimensions is going to sponsor with Barbara <v Michael Toms>Marx Hubbard by writing to New Dimensions Foundation at 267 <v Michael Toms>State Street, San Francisco, California 94114.

<v Michael Toms>And we'll be happy to send you more information about that. <v Michael Toms>And also, remember that Barbara Marx Hubbard is going to be in Three Jewels in the Lotus <v Michael Toms>II on Saturday, May 12th. <v Michael Toms>And tickets are available again from New Dimensions. <v Michael Toms>Same address. Please send a self-addressed stamped envelope and tickets are $15 <v Michael Toms>for the day. <v Larry Guice>Barbara, you had some more - um, you wanted to address the question of like going <v Larry Guice>into space. And is that just going to perpetuate some of the <v Larry Guice>autocratic ideas that we've had with the control of technology and things <v Larry Guice>like that manipulation? <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I am so deeply attracted to freedom and to increased freedom <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>that- it's a question that I don't believe any of us have the answer to. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>It is possible that moving into space development could <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>increase control because certainly the early colonies will have to be run <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>in a very tightly controlled way because it will be very difficult.

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>However, if you can take it one step further from those first early settlements, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>what you see coming is the capacity for diversity <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>at an almost unimaginable scale. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>It's like the amph- we're like the amphibian now. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>We're, you know, like- they came out of the ocean, and they could stay up in the dry <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>land. They had to go back because they couldn't establish a non-marine base. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Once the human race establishes a non-terrestrial base where we're using resources <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>from space, the ability to spin off new <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>communities will be available. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>These new communities will be extremely diverse because people will have a chance to <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>differentiate right now on this planet. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>It's really hard to do something new without backing into somebody else trying to do <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>something new. And then you really can't. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Evolution always creates diversity. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>That's one of its its processes. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Once that foothold in space is established, which is a centralized act right now, let's <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>face it. But once that centralized act- it's like the great ship with Columbus coming

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>over, if it wasn't for a centralized power, you wouldn't have had the Maria - Santa <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Maria and so forth. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>But [cough] can you think of the diversity <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>that the amphibians created as we began to get the various species on the dry land, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>which finally led up to that, you know, the hand and the ear and the eye <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>and the erect posture and the brain and us all by facing <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>a new environment. OK, so when we get up there, the diversity that is going to spring <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>forward, I would say, after the year 2000- is going to enhance <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>freedom of options unimaginably. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>In fact, what I think will happen is that the communities in space will <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>be so much at a higher level of excellence, cooperation and knowledge that they could <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>control the earth. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And instead of it being a problem, the earth controlling the space is that there's going <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>to be a time in which the earth people will have to try to preserve <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>their independence from these enormously capable colonies.

<v Michael Toms>You know, I want to ask you the question. What can- what can each of us as individuals <v Michael Toms>do? What can we do right now to participate in this <v Michael Toms>change? Does transformation become a part of it? <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>This is the most difficult question. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I believe there are two answers. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>One is you have to look into your own function and begin to see how you <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>can evolve it. You have to become an evolutionary agent. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>In order to do that, we need places to connect with each other to learn. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So you can- If you wish to <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>join these networks of people seeking out how to do this. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>The ones that I am familiar with, I can just tell you very briefly, you can come to Act <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>3, of course, in San Francisco. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>You can join the Evolutionary Management Association if you're in business. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>You can join the L5 Society if you're particularly interested in space colonization, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>and that's in Tucson, Arizona. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>If you're interested in the future in general, you can join the World Future Society.

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And if you really want to be an evolutionary agent, you will take the initiative to seek <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>out those others who are. Because there is no social pattern yet and worked <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>out together. What's the right step? <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I think we're at the time of forming new organizations to do this. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>It's beyond just networking. It's beyond just interacting. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>It's now at the point of nucleating for co operation. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So you've got to be a pioneer. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Nobody is going to hand this to us on a silver platter. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Anyone who's listening out there who cares can find a way of linking up with someone <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>else who cares and invent the structures. <v Michael Toms>You can also listen to this kind of program. <v Michael Toms>[laughter] <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And you can listen to New Dimensions because it is through this- this exchange of <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>information that we'll find each other. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And I'd like to make one last point. I didn't have any real deep friendship <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>till I was about 35 years old. Because every one I met, I felt superficial. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>I have now, almost every other day, people who I meet, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>who I think I've known all my life. And to me, I have this image of a mountain.

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>We all started the base and some people stop halfway up and others keep going a little <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>further. And it's hard to see each other if you're still at the thick part of the <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>mountain. But if you keep on climbing, you start getting to a point. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>You just peak around and there's everyone else who kept on climbing. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And eventually, those of us who don't want to stop climbing will meet everybody <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>else who doesn't want to stop climbing. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>So keep on climbing, keep on transcending, and you'll meet everyone else who is. <v Michael Toms>It's like there are different levels on the mountain, just like you find. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>And if you have a lot of growth potential and you feel frustrated and depressed, <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>recognize it as divine discontent and act upon it and keep on climbing. <v Michael Toms>It's great. <v Michael Toms>We've been talking with Barbara Marx Hubbard, the author of The Hunger of Eve: A Woman's <v Michael Toms>Odyssey Towards the Future. <v Michael Toms>Those of you've been with us know we've been talking about the future in the present and <v Michael Toms>how we can make it a part of our daily life. <v Michael Toms>Barbara, it's been really nice having you. <v Barbara Marx Hubbard>Thank you, Michael. I've been enjoying this program more than almost any I've ever been

<v Barbara Marx Hubbard>on. <v Michael Toms>Wonderful. Thank you. Again, let me remind those of you out there that you can <v Michael Toms>experience Barbara Marx Hubbard in person. <v Michael Toms>Live at 3 Jewels in the Lotus II on Saturday, May 12th. <v Michael Toms>Tickets are available from New Dimensions Foundation, they're $15 for the day. <v Michael Toms>Send a self-addressed stamped envelope to New Dimensions, 267 State Street, San <v Michael Toms>Francisco 94114. <v Michael Toms>On behalf the entire New Dimensions radio family, this is Michael Toms. <v Larry Guice>And this is Larry Guice. <v Michael Toms>Wishing you successful evolutionary management. <v Michael Toms>[laughter]