Newton N. Minow Address before the N.A.E.B. Convention in Washington, D.C., 1961-10-23, and Hartford Gunn of WGBH Interviews John White of NETRC about New York's Channel 13 TV Outlet

it's my pleasure this time to welcome all of you for the opening session of the thirty seventh annual convention of the national association of educational progress assembled here in washington tonight for over five hundred representatives universities colleges and non profit organizations operating radio and television stations throughout the united states you'll be pleased to learn that there are represented here tonight forty nine states we like tony alaska and had we know that i assure you that we would've brought a delegate from alaska by special playing it isn't really a contrast to find a crowd of this nature assemble or meeting of educational broadcaster it was only a few years ago the anti membership in the national association of educational broadcaster number gone and those days you recall a convention in the committee meeting room that day we need a large auditorium of the science in order to gather together and

convene a meeting of represented educational broadcast tonight we have as a featured speaker a man who has achieved in a very short time a reputation that is not only nationwide but worldwide and so we are in the fortunate at this occasion to have a speaker of surgery now and a man who has made such an impact on the american economy and american way of life particularly important to a group of educators be able to hear a message of considerable importance not only to the educational community but for the entire american public because the medium of radio and television now reaches into the schoolroom into the home of every family throughout the united states statistics are very impressive when you realize that we have a country with two hundred

million people and find that we have complete saturation of radio and every american hall when you find that possibly eighty percent of all american homes are equipped to receive television broadcast and so what is her tremendous audience that educational institutions can appeal in presenting their message i'm reminded that during a political campaign recently the featured speaker was at a luncheon and was about ready to begin the address when the chairman leaned over and said shall we allow the ladies to enjoy themselves the more you want to start now if this were meeting a commercial broadcasters i probably could use that introduction and say shall we allow broadcasters to enjoy themselves more or shall we bring the speaker are but tonight i think there's more of an anxiety

and apprehension the speaker is your nose the newly appointed chairman of the federal limitations commission mr newton minnow who was appointed to the commission on march second nineteen sixty one he comes to the commission with a fine background in law and public service he was forming a law clerk to the chief justice of the supreme court as job as an administrative assistant to governor at least it's born in milwaukee he was educated university of michigan where is interrupted by military service after the completion of his military service he went to northwestern university where he restated the great in nineteen forty nine and speech and his battered was a very volunteer veteran chief of the law review and was number one in his class he received way more war as the thing you had done most for his school he's a member of the illinois wisconsin is best known for the chorus as the

chair of the federal communications commission and i believe the man who has achieved a distinction of being on the front page of time and the shortest time of a public service and so i now present to you the chairman federal communications commission the honorable newton and men the pain became the queen highly distinguished guest ways and you know after having spoken to some other groups of broadcasters i must say that you're greeting the scene reminds me of what the house a former cold wintry morning she said thanks for the warm hand

you have honored me greatly by inviting me to be here they are in order right i hope you will permit me to claim some kinship with you educational broadcasters because broadcasting has been getting me quite an education the past few months education has been coming from our generals and some of it has been in living color but all this education has reinforced rather than change the fundamental principles which guide me in carrying out the responsibilities as chairman of the federal communications commission last may i support those principles in a speech to your sister organization the national association of broadcasters there's one point i'd like to repeat here and now before this audience i will do all i can develop

educational television there are still not enough educational stations and major centers of the country still lacked usable educational channels if there were a limited number of printing presses in this country you may be sure that a fire proportion of them would be put to educational use educational television has an enormous contribution to make in the future and i intend to get a hand along the way if there is not a nationwide educational television system in this country it will not be before the fcc so you see we share a common goal it is that law that i want to discuss with you this evening and it is my purpose here to keynote specific ways and means to achieve it let me add that i'm especially grateful to be part of the first use of the new educational radio network going into news tonight i hope that you radio broadcasters president will forgive the emphasis on television perhaps someday you may get

near rain check to come back again and discuss education radio iowa achieving a ball of a nationwide educational television system is essential but it is no sport for the short winded in reviewing some of the history of educational television i'm reminded of that historic day in nineteen twelve when theodore roosevelt stood before the bull moose convention and shouted we stand on it and we battle both of you have worked so faithfully in the cause of educational broadcasting sometimes must feel they've been standing there that same spot and almost since nineteen twelve so in addressing the national association of educational broadcasters i'm aware that you professionals have been in a battle line for a long time we had psa say and i speak there unanimously for all of my colleagues

sold your dedication your perseverance and your version while many have talked of the promise of educational television you have provided the performance and surprisingly enough you have done this in the face of a peculiar metal block one that is sadly fine on the campus as well as in the offices of commercial broadcasters that mel watt can be summed up in the cliche we're so often after all broadcasting is primarily a medium of entertainment but is it and who says so there's certainly nothing in the law that says so indeed the only reference to different kinds of programs and the communications act deals with certain special protection afforded to a non commercial education or cultural program the emphasis on entertainment comes not from the communications act but from economic imperatives of the commercial television industry commercial television is taking

many steps to expand and improve its programming but its major emphasis will continue to be entertainment forties entertainment that attract the mass audience is the mass audience that attracts sponsors and a sponsorship by advertisers that brings commercial entertainment its profits let this not be misunderstood i'm not saying that entertainment is bad and that there should be none of that on television television more commercial and educational should provide entertainment and lots of it but what i am saying is a fundamentally television is a medium of communication not merely entertain and while communication includes entertainment it also includes education and all its levels information news public events comment the big discussion history music dance answer is drama this fact that television is fundamentally a medium of communication is no secret of those who would destroy our freedoms including our freedom of speech press radio and television

the russians and chinese are using television to educate as well as to propagandize my a minus to visit the soviet union last year old soviet television primitive by our standards and throttled by dog but she also found surprisingly that in nineteen thirty nine the russian started televising english lessons in the afternoon for children and in prime evening time for adults and that this was done in response to the demands of the viewers russia is a big example let me give you a smaller we've been hearing much this past week about communist china's ideological comrade a tiny county this country of albania the new york times recently reported that albania has tripled its television programming with the aid of equipment and technicians from russia red china and east germany albania has increased its programming from wanda three and a half hours a day at three and a half hours

albania one of the least developed countries in europe is doing as well on time as some of the educational television stations in america's largest cities i trust is not doing as well on quality and this brings up another marijuana commercial television has no monopoly on ways lance we all know that there is room for improvement program quality and educational as well as commercial broadcast television has its own language and it is language that commercial television has completely mastered commercial television properties technical perfection which rubio against commercial television is not that it does not know how to reach the heights but rather that it does not make the attempt often enough television requires many skills and many talents of a higher order and also the man's a large slice of showmanship

are afraid that many educators consider showmanship a dirty word many educators brought shop showmanship as artie and gimmicky and they're leery of the top three reactors are a world away from true showmanship the art of attracting and holding an audience of making an idea our subject fascinating the art of emotional involvement great teachers that always been exciting and challenging great teachers do showmanship every day and they never wore think for a moment of the great teachers in your own lives and you remember every one of them held your attention by appealing to your emotions in your hearts as well as your minds true showmanship the man's greatness of spurred a pioneering and state creative initiative encourage demands imagination and daring in the treatment of ideas and techniques and it requires farm editorial direction only time the use of all available resources

and central responsibility there must be an insistence of quality and the courage to insist on quality even at the expense of quality you educational broadcasters do have one great advantage over commercial broadcasters you are free to cater to the mass minority audience this means you're free to experiment to try their pure compulsion czar not profits but rather a prophecy seeking the utmost limits and capabilities of this new medium of communication you're on producing organization the national educational television radio center already has shown which you can do some of nuts programming eventually support programs such as prospects of mankind forty five years with fitzpatrick a ragtime are of main street and the great drama series such as the age of things these are programs of the highest quality there are different they suggest that educational televisions great challenge is in the

millions of adults attracted to intellectual adventure rather than action adventure there is a massive minority millions of americans each week want to escape from escapist programming who demand that television light up their minds as well as their screens up to now i've been talking about television as a medium of communication as well as entertainment about the vital role showmanship plays and communication now let's turn to the semi to argo a nationwide educational television that is all you veterans of the sixth reporter order know so well that requires a lot more than speeches criticism and suggestions for me you need money television stations and a chance to target audience it's been said that the greatest after dinner speech of all time was expressed in the four sweetest words in the english language gives me the check

eight million five hundred thousand dollars a year eight million five hundred thousand dollars a year is now being spent on programming by all the educational television stations the three commercial television networks spend more than eight million five hundred thousand dollars late in jail and one week the bta washington's newest educational television station is starting out with an annual budget of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars by comparison programming for a single hour of crime at timeout only one commercial network not cost more than eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars remember sophie tucker is great line i been rich and i didnt formally register with our knowledge of the need and the promise it is truly shocking that we in

america the richest country in the world have been spending our time not anything how we should expand educational television but whether it should be expanded it all the time forty babies over educational television should not continue going to happen and begging for help there must be an aggressive a militant campaign for educational television on its feet financially in every other way let me tell you a story that was a united states senator some years ago i looked up the leadership in the senate debates in opposition to a bill which was defeated by one vote my next day he appeared on the floor of the senate and upon being given the floor being recognized the moment but they'll be reconsidered announcing that he had changed his mind ready now support the legislation his opponent of the day before graduating message already seen the light and he replied know what i felt the heat

ladies and gentlemen it is about time that you put on the believe me your opponent's know on a white out organize how to persuade argue how to lobby and i'm not criticizing forty years should you for this in the democratic process but you must embrace your sales and your associates at home in this process with a beard a match or dedication and with a skill worthy of your normal cause you must turn on the heat so that others may see the light an excellent starting point is the bill which senator warren magnuson has been sponsoring in which passed the senate at the last session that bill would grant one million dollars to each state as seed money to get educational television started in each of the fifty states center magazine has this to say about the proposed legislation we all know that television is a powerful means of communication current research and experimentation as well as local and regional planning reveal unlimited

potentials and the future of educational television this bill was intended to launch our country generally upon the path of bringing into our educational system the tremendous advantage and opportunity afforded by educational television president kennedy and this administration strongly supports a nationwide educational television the total amount of involved in the magnets and bill fifty million dollars survey is not a wild spending figure as it happens is just about the same amount of money as the ford foundation has contributed educational television through the fund for the advancement of education dna be vigorously supported the maggots and bill but then started an urgent action is near on a broader point a mobilization of all the groups which have expressed an interest in educational television a companion bill in the house robert spill is pending before the house rules

committee also a modified and limited four you you were in this room must take the lead in ensuring its passage in nineteen sixty two and i want you to know that this bill as chairman harris's interest and support secretary roberts was testifying on behalf of the problem of health education welfare and supportive educational television legislation said educational television accords unique opportunities for massive and rapid qualitative improvement of education which is now a national challenge a concerted campaign in support of this legislation as they start a warm up please united effort should not stop there remember you have two more points to workout and having every dollar that is spent on tell me since nineteen forty eight or help if nobody is watching so let's turn our second problem the problem of television

channels here the facts that prevail as i see them we cannot rewrite history it's fuel waste anymore time and useless recrimination about what might have been in the assignment channels in general the age of channels have been assigned a commercial television and we've about run out of the egyptians there are indeed still a few exceptions but for all practical purposes the age gap band has been saturated the only room for expansion four year educational or commercial television lies in the ultra high frequencies it may come as a surprise to some of you were the age of simply couldn't do the job anyway the number of stations educational broadcasters tell us that they will eventually require is so great that they just couldn't be met and the h are even if we wipe the state the slate clean and reassigned every leaf from commercial educational

colbert asked for a saturation we have a dramatic example right here in the nation's capital washington and baltimore have between them seventy a chip commercial stations the two cities are so close together is to be within each other's interference or so they form a single area as far as china will censor concern and seven is the maximum number of channels i can be better than any one area so in the greater washington educational television association got underway it had no option but to ask for you a job assignment and that is where the bta is on shale play sex with you a chat we have seven the chair instead of the restrictive twelve available on the vhs there through ranger the way jeff is somewhat less than that of the job but so is the range of interference and thus we can accommodate more you age of stations in a given area then we can be a jerk

now that sounds promising but there's a vital missing ingredient people who are able to watch television and you age it in fact we do not have any considerable number of people and i mean people were rooting for educational television or even always you a church stands for and this is a tragedy here is the fundamental educational opportunity you have missed educational television has failed to educate its own potential audience i repeat for those of the main point i will likely with educational television has failed to educate its own potential audience so where the horns of a painful dilemma where are the age of channels we must use the supply of new egyptian with new age epic president with the exception of you age of violence i cannot command an audience i knew a chapter broadcaster commercial or educational

often plays to an empty house you object is your sleeping giant through you age out you can make an eleventh hour span and create a nationwide educational television says television is to expand educational television particular is going to have a future we're going to have to use all the wage of frequencies new educational broadcasters of all have the greatest day in the future of the way jet and you above all must take the leadership and it's the bill again this must be a united effort a thorough marshaling of support their support means people your own potential audience the power of the very people you seek to serve must come to your aid at one of the best ways to organize the form of support is to widen an audience and that brings us to the third major problem

you age of reception you home receivers today can receive you which are one way is to adapt them with a converter the other way is to promote the all channel receiver the solution to one of our most serious problems the stress with a bit of electronic gadgetry not much bigger than your name a converter or a converted to her in all channels that the timber isn't easy way out a robot sitting on top of the ordinary television set it converts the way just signal coming and so that it can be seen on the strain of a set built to receive the age of only unlike the old time revival this however you have to convert your audience before you can get them into the tent here in washington and i see mrs campbell's here we all of washington through the efforts of her group no more about members now than we did a month ago when washington's that eta went on the air several weeks ago

either the television viewers for the wholesalers at any embers and start they were a rare it rarer still holler was the man we even won a television from her was four so the epa educated us quickly to just how little is known about you a chat about converters and television reception in general the conversion of the now standards that certainly is the best short term answer for filling out the wager points but the long term solution is obviously the all channel receiver now with the vhs than saturated and you a check just waiting to be used there is no sensible reason why we should continue to limp along with steps that will receive only twelve channels why should any television set manufactured in his country leave the factory and capable of receiving seven eighths of the channels

available for television broadcasting in america all that is required is building a converter analysts that in the first place right and placing it on top later at considerably greater expense what is involved is that fairly simple modification of only one part of the television set a touring circuit the puppets look up the channels which in the front some manufacturers have estimated that the all channel receiver would cost only twenty to thirty dollars more to turn out than the twelve channels that now on the market as oscar probably for around ten dollars on a volume mass production base or a piece of equipment costing around two hundred dollars this is not overwhelming for thirty dollars or less the public has denied access to seventy eights seven eighths of the public airwaves there are still some technical problems to be solved to be sure in turning out a separate breaches from the bottom of the va check to the top of the wage but we cannot believe that these minor technical problems

will stop the inventive genius of our manufacturers are beyond the reach of the electronic art the federal communications commission and i hastened addison before iraq has proposed legislation which would require the television sets manufacture for shipment in interstate commerce be capable of receiving all channels i agree completely with the commission's policy about before i got there and supported wholeheartedly bill to accomplish this is introduced in the senate by senator magnus is never ask to want all night the house bill evans by representative harris is never age are a whole three what i'd like to do a little lobbying if i can i'll hire is the naacp work for these bills how thoroughly hundreds of organizations there is that in education and television and canvas for support you can have the best friends at the fcc that you've ever had but they cannot help you unless you help us

are you working with the fcc with public support to win public support for this legislation no pamphlet explaining these educational television back to life while a nationwide educational television system cannot be assured on the basis of a gadget i'm convinced that this war the converter and it's borne out rather the all channel receiver are the key that only ending this frustrating and wasteful distinction between vhs and you a check at the receiving end once we had a reception the american public will be able to watch all television not just harder and just as the usable spectrum will be brought in so our choice between commercial and noncommercial stations between pure entertainment and richmond between fantasy and reality television itself will speak with many more voices and our freedom to choose will be enlarged in this after all is the essence of america this will not happen

unless you help us unless you take a far greater interest in the sec an average for the all care legislation might now put a few commercials for the fcc some recent actions that we take the fcc is sponsoring a most important test of you at a reception in the canyons of new york city and we were working there with the educational community to use the test for educational as well as technical purposes in addition the sec initiated an inquiry into the possibility of bringing educational television to two of the country's largest population centers and on vhs this inquiry is not yet concluded but i do remind you that it's under very active study but even with educational stations in all populations centers educational stations will not be linked together for the network is not yet connected certainly not at night only by day and by that i mean

my friend jay edward day the postmaster general n e t now is providing towers of programs a week for the educational stations but even as valiant effort is a program service nominate world service because of money problems at can only provide enough videotapes a service one third of the educational stations at a time we understand that some amenities best efforts such as prospects of mankind often lose much of its impact because it does not arrive at the last of the stations until five weeks after its nose was dreck y probably did as well in the days of the pony express this country the obvious cure would be alive network with instantaneous transmission to different parts of the country but the us in the world's richest country is still too rich or educational television from discussions with the american telephone and telegraph company however i know that very serious

efforts are being made to find some helpful solutions and copper the american telephone and telephone company's comprehensive study the problem will be very shortly to some tangible suggestions of ways and means to link you up as a true television network and yet there's another development which i hope will be a valuable service to the cause of educational television and the goal of a nationwide educational television system my colleagues have given me the pleasure night of announcing for the commission but last wednesday october eighteenth we unanimously approved the establishment of a new office within the fcc to be known as the division of research and education we want you to have a central place of yesteryear bring your questions and your problems like the educational broadcasters we are not without our money problems and so the new division will be a small one at the beginning as is proper in any event

spall as it may be at the start however the new division has been given much to do we shall expected to study in cooperation with education organizations the immediate and long term needs for educational progress season channel cucumber our information on trends in educational television applications with particular emphasis on the factors which encourage or hinder the growth of new stations yesterday the experience of the stations already in operation to reveal the fcc rules and regulations governing the educational television services to see if any changes are awarded to analyze the application and renewal forms to see if special forms a report really patient alone to provide educational broadcasting organizations with comprehensive information as to commission procedures norms rules and regulations and to serve as a liaison with other government agencies concerned with educational broadcasting to serve generally as a clearinghouse of information so you see

an organization has its work cut out for it the peak how this new office develops will that will be largely upon your interests and your cooperation we urge you educators in the educational broadcasters to speak up well i'm often and when you speak up but they suggest to you that justice commercial and not to commercial television ensure access to a single screen soap commercial or noncommercial television can work side by side for the improvement of volatility isn't it time for the two elements and television to start thinking of their mutual interests rather than their differences in a time for counting down to get together on a tower i would remind you of these famous words he would dare to teach was never sees toward you have much

to learn from each other and the academic side there are enormous resources which never have been put to use in the cause of communication and on the side of a commercial broadcasters are there other techniques and all the expert educational broadcasting and particularly educators must come to see these techniques for what they are essential tools in the art communications some bridging of the gap between the two worlds is already in evans every white columns president of the national association of broadcasters has proposed the establishment of a navy research and training center to be located at or near where the country's major university campus a committee of broadcasters divide down again of the westinghouse broadcasting company he's making a study this project now with all that's going on is that not only possible that a problem the next year nineteen sixty two at the time would be right for a benchmark conference between the educational community the educational

broadcasters and the commercial broadcasting industry you will find more often than not but the commercial mortgages will help you financially ethically those of you concerned with education and communication have a picture in your class and that future means in achieving a nationwide educational system and time to contribute to your country's needs you have the chance to bring to a mass audience the knowledge needed to keep our society growing the cultural heritage to keep our society rich and the information of our citizens to keep our society free many of you have been frustrated despite her rapid progress the only cure is for prostration are either infinite patience or

intelligent action i believe you've been patient long enough thanks because the peak today an important announcement concerning the development of an educational television was made in washington dc in the washington studios of the educational radio network at wamu fm is mr john f white president of the national educational television and radio static mr white what is the special news about educational television mr gunn three three pm this

afternoon the federal communications commission announced his decision in and not the case the purchase of channel thirteen in new york city the decision was on a six to one vote in favor of the educational interest send channel thirteen has been awarded two s which is educational television for the metropolitan area what does this mean for the people of new york your wealth this is it this is a big victory for the people of new york it's a big victory for national educational television as far as that goes but it means that it is that the citizens in new jersey new york and connecticut and that metropolitan area will now have available to them educational television on an effort that i made you none of the atf channel which means that the people can receive in a normal set and this therefore means noncommercial television for the metropolitan area this'll be channel thirteen in new york city yes i understand there's been some opposition to the request of the educators for this chant

verses come from and what is the problem where the idea governor of new jersey file against us an end in this effort on the basis that this action will remove the only commercial channel from the state of new jersey that the commission obviously took him his appeal in consideration as they reached this verdict and have voted that sixty one in our favor what dog what do you think will happen now is does the governor have for the record so far the fcc is concerned yes it needs to be stated that the governor of new jersey is is doing this and what he believes to be the best interests of his state he does have recourse now he can appeal the decision the fcc to work at the united states court of appeals he has indicated in the press that he will do so i have no evidence however that you will of time remains to be seen does this in any way hold up the development of an educational television station on channel thirteen in new york that is should be a governor choose to take this to the court well if he if he takes i can tell you what we'll do obviously of this effort to secure

vhs educational television from er has been a series of hurdles ranging leading from that the development of a group due to raise the money to the negotiation for a purchase through all of these these fcc matters now the next hurdle is is this one of closing and they're frankly mr gundy a board of directors of that mud will meet within the next several days and will make that decision that we have the right now to close this deal even in spite of his appeal of a court on the other hand judgment may say at the weight and i can't play when our judgment will be are your plans are actually to take over land purchased two year control channel thirteen is not owned by the educators know it is owned by the un pa we had a contract for to purchase for six million two hundred thousand dollars in june thirtieth the decision today now clears us to close if there are definite says to do so what does an educational television station on vhs educational television station in new york city mean for the rest of the united states attack we were

talking a moment ago about it's important for the people and you're our audience tonight is all along the eastern seaboard that's right there is not the slightest doubt that this new station is of equal importance to boston to work there in new hampshire to washington dc that almost as it is of the people in new york because new york is after all a communications capitol it means that this is now in the orbit of educational broadcasters and for all of us it means we must have there at a station as significant as some of the sister television stations to the radio stations on this network it must be as strong as boston the census going the others in order that educational television can make its normal progress toward the effectiveness we know is that they have in other words there will be major educational television productions for the national that were coming out of new york city and in new york city just as arizona boston and several other key point what facilities will use for channel thirteen well as you know used to gun we've been committed from the outset to to maintain their studios in new jersey we will at least for the time

being maintained the president of the mpaa studios in you know we will have available to us other facilities in mid manhattan there which is after all the geographical cultural in and every other a center of that are we will maintain studios there eventually oh we expect to build their facilities and in the conjunction with the lincoln center temporarily we will operate us in studio's that we will release or lease for this purpose or herbie studios in connecticut as well as a new jersey and new york and eventually our plan is that their chubby studios in and in connecticut probably around greenwich however our first step is to activate the studios in new jersey and new york which are available to it this is really a metropolitan center station is now rather than a single city stage is the tri state in the abort will be organized on a strike price day basis to service will be organized on a tri state basis it will also i should add be an integral part of what must to become an east an educational television network just as you initiated this eastern educational radio network we're very happy to hear that

speech you have four program we have said from the outset that it is our plan to work to actively programming on closing plus two or three months in other words we won't rush into programming and we must organize our staff we must organize a program and precede it once my estimate is two months after closing i should add however mr gunn that that the job in new york as well as educational television has benefited greatly greatly from the tragedy in boston the courage to leave the acceptance of of educational broadcasting in boston and the response of the general public to that station has made our job now actually much easier because we have a fine example do to a man in new york city there is already an educational television station i understand on the new age at that what is its relationship or want maybe we should stop for a moment what is that station and and how does it fit in the overall educational television richard well as i understand it's at this moment it is the year it is an experimental station is you know to work to

determine the effectiveness of the eu which banned in large cities it is also my understanding that it will eventually be turned over to the city of new york to be used as a municipal station granted that it's in that it is a service institution that the people just like any educational station is our understanding is that it will be a specialized service agency serving city agencies now this is not unique because as you know oklahoma city and pittsburgh already have to say new york isn't the head it's just catching up with the parade in other words the the trend across the country and i understand my amazing is in a similar position you know sort of milwaukee to be is toward two and maybe three or four educational stations within a city each serving specified needs white correct the second challenger usually served for specific groups and specifically to school for example for example now via new york you a job will do this for the city of new york school but it was a survey the fire department the police and other municipal agencies seems hard to believe that in many

areas which have no educational television that the need is growing so rapidly that more than one station iss needed almost at the outset to surveys me yes the state of florida for example if in a request the fcc for a for a number of these multiple channels for seeing the days ahead when no one channel just cannot service our schools are the classes they need do you think there is a general pattern emerging from this development of multi station educational stations within an area is is this a trend where possibly the general adel educational programming might be carried on one channel him in school and are multi school channels might be available to carry on other services is a sikh this is obviously the direction we're heading at the moment and with technological a technological development coming as rapidly as you know it's impossible for you meet you too but not a good five years down the line but at this moment it looks as though our pattern is for the establishment in these communities

of a prime station which serves the general public in their homes plus secondary channels which do specific jobs for specific groups that are not concerned with general public so the earlier crimes station for the general audience in new york would be the channel thirteen quite correct oh what do you see as the possible programming that might come from that station you spoke a moment ago of an affiliation with the lincoln center is this a possible source of programs we helped hurting new york city yes it certainly is as a matter fact in our planning we have been involved with the a constituent of that agency from the outset there you have that they're the juilliard school you have the metropolitan opera you have the symphony as well as repertory theater schools of the bands and it is our hope and expectation that in the years these long recap but just as will limit a museum art of art the natural history museums and others you know as a pattern for me or is exactly the pattern as you about that and boston the only difference is that the artful a larger chord on

we've been talking about educational television on the local level jack and i wonder if you might say something about the national picture were almost up to sixty are we up to sixty educational television station we are outgunned we are up now to sixty tell an educational television stations on the air of which fifty six are affiliated when they learn that a national educational television net as emma will call this is developing very rapidly when one would call that the first asian came on the air i just eight years ago this set of progressives is more than encouraging it but in the business that you and iran we can't afford to look backward we must look ahead an end date for two years now we refer to ourselves as the fourth network of this country it must in the future be the fourth major network jack let me ask you a quick question after new york where fdr los angeles after the los angeles live in a connection between all stations wherever they are i think that's a very bright future and on that point we will end our program from washington dc our

guest has been mr john f why the president of the national educational television radio set or commenting on today's news of the grant by the federal communications commission on a six to one vote in favor of educational television on channel thirteen in new york city were calling in new york and general manager of educational television for the metropolitan area group which is to be the owners and operators of the new educational station the director what's your reaction ms belle you

feel we're very close it drips it well it's bad during the program ali really have to know that we will try to work with the teachers have gone on for teacher training program beginning at about five pm five till about seven we will be broadcasting for various age groups showbiz beat they're ill

he was broke there's been greatly that's right during the day it was good thank you gentlemen you have just heard a repeat of a special program from the studios of wamu fm in washington dc for the educational radio network this is the educational radio network