How Do You Like the World; Part 1

<v Speaker>Singing: Jennie Rebecca. <v Speaker>

<v Speaker 1>I've heard situations say, let's go see how the other side is living. <v Speaker 1>You understand them being rich. <v Speaker 1>Linda ?Gougne? Here. Wow. <v Speaker 1>Wow. Laughs If you think about being gangsters, you understand that's the only way you <v Speaker 1>gonna learn to be anything. It is picking up glass and stuff to defend yourself. <v Speaker 2>You raised rough. You gonna live rough. That's what it is. So <v Speaker 2>I didn't make it. So my kid's gonna grow up <v Speaker 2>around the same thing they did. Same thing here. I was raised around it too. <v Speaker 3>What it means is that you got to struggle. <v Speaker 2>When you was on your swing set playing like that you know, on the see-saw. <v Speaker 2>I was raised up playing with old boards nails in it. <v Speaker 2>Climbing on top of rope at the school. Might fall any time. <v Speaker 1>If America's is so beautiful. Let's change some of this stuff here. <v Speaker 1>Would you like to be raised in an environment like this?

<v Speaker 1>Are your children? That's what I'm saying. <v Speaker 1>Would you. <v Kathy>You can't relax. Your mind is constantly worried about <v Kathy>how am I going to feed this child? How am I going to keep it? <v Kathy>How am I going to give him something for his birthday? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Do you feel like your life would be easier if you didn't have him? <v Speaker 4>Mhmm. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Would it? <v Speaker 4>Well, then I wouldn't have to worry about no baby sitters, you know, or or worry <v Speaker 4>about where their next meal is gonna come from, you know, or something like that. <v Speaker 4>Or worried about for them have a place to stay. <v Kathy>Every time Rodney comes to me, says Kathy, I want to go to the movies. <v Kathy>Kathy, I want this. To have to tell him, no, I can't. <v Kathy>I don't have the money. <v Kathy>I don't have any money. You can't have this. <v Kathy>We can't do this right now because I don't have any money. <v Kathy>Because it hurts me every time I have to tell Rodney that. <v Kathy>And I don't want to raise another child by myself. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Rodney, where's your daddy?

<v Rodney Stanton>He's in Texas. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, do you ever see him? <v Rodney Stanton>No. <v Rodney Stanton>He's very far from here. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>He's What? <v Rodney Stanton>Very far. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, do you care? <v Rodney Stanton>Yes. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Can you look at me? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>When's the last time you saw him? <v Rodney Stanton>Huh? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>When is the last time you saw your daddy? <v Rodney Stanton>[Shrugs]. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Do you wish you could see him? <v Rodney Stanton>[Nods]. <v Kathy>I don't want to have any more children on welfare. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Kathy, do you ever feel like you're getting something for nothing on welfare? <v Kathy>No. <v Kathy>No, I don't. Because the mental strain that I go through being <v Kathy>on welfare, it seems like you're getting something for nothing. <v Kathy>But you don't. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>You pay. <v Kathy>You pay. <v Kathy>You know, you pay mentally and in some cases you pay physically. <v Kathy>But all in all, you pay for it.

<v Susan Lyle Kinney>Are you happy? <v Kathy>Am I happy? No. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Why not? <v Kathy>Because my life isn't the way I wanted to be. I feel it should be. <v Kathy>There's a lot more to life than just trying to figure out how you can afford the <v Kathy>necessities. <v Kathy>And someday I'll make it. <v Kathy>I hope to be able to raise my son so he grows <v Kathy>up to be a good man. <v Kathy>And I don't want him to grow up thinking this is the only way to live. <v Announcer>Rodney was born into a world he did not choose and cannot control. <v Announcer>From the time he was conceived, that world has been shaping his body and brain. <v Announcer>Altering in the deepest sense his experience of every moment of his one <v Announcer>trip through life and limiting his ability to escape the poverty <v Announcer>which has imprisoned his family for generations.

<v Announcer>How the world we are born into shapes our brains and bodies, creating <v Announcer>all of us unequal is the subject of this broadcast. <v Dr. Richard Rose>Somehow to suggest that people are different in a deep <v Dr. Richard Rose>biological sense is political and social heresy educational <v Dr. Richard Rose>heresy in our culture. But I'm really suggesting that it's a truism <v Dr. Richard Rose>to all of us. All we need do is look around and introspect on our own life. <v Dr. Richard Rose>Perhaps more private to our experience than anything else is the notion that we are <v Dr. Richard Rose>unique. And the truth is, genetically, we are unique. <v Dr. Richard Rose>What we should want is equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome, <v Dr. Richard Rose>nor equality of the child as it comes to the kindergarten door. <v Dr. Richard Rose>He and she are not equal. <v Dr. Richard Rose>We don't want them to be. Not really. <v Dr. Myron Winick>This mix of poverty and malnutrition, which occurs very <v Dr. Myron Winick>early in the life of a child or which may occur in the pregnant woman,

<v Dr. Myron Winick>will cause the brain to develop abnormally. <v Dr. Myron Winick>There are no effects even in severe malnutrition during pregnancy. <v Dr. Myron Winick>If the baby then goes out to a middle class or a an environment <v Dr. Myron Winick>which is going to be appropriate for that child. <v Dr. John Kennell>There's a question of how upsetting it is to a <v Dr. John Kennell>baby for a lifetime. What does happen right at the time of birth and right afterwards? <v Dr. John Kennell>We've had a chance to see that really there's quite a difference. <v Dr. John Kennell>If parents are together with their baby right after birth. <v Dr. John Kennell>In contrast to being separated, which was the routine and most of our country <v Dr. John Kennell>until very recently. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>I think that we haven't paid as much attention. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>Let's put it this way to the little nuances in the <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>interactions between adults and children, Susan, because nobody thought they were very <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>important. People tended for a long time to think that they <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>developmental events in the first two years of life weren't all that critical and that, <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>you know, he didn't do anything. He's not talking.

<v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>He's not doing all the other things that we value. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>And yet the foundation for all these cognitive activities are clearly <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>being established during this early period. <v Dr. David Welkart>How do we get the kind of adult we want as a society? <v Dr. David Welkart>And I think, ah, my particular philosophy is that you have to build the education <v Dr. David Welkart>system from the start with the quality, endow the education system right from the start <v Dr. David Welkart>with the qualities you want the person to have as an adult. <v Dr. David Welkart>You want wanted to be responsible. You have to build opportunities for responsibility <v Dr. David Welkart>into the ongoing daily program. <v Dr. David Welkart>You wanted to be creative. That has to occur. <v Dr. David Welkart>You want that to be self initiating. That has to be has to occur. <v Dr. David Welkart>And one doesn't only turn those traits on. <v Dr. David Welkart>One has to build them level by level, age by age, as one grows. <v Announcer>Age by age as they grow. <v Announcer>These children of poverty are formed by a world that conspires against the realization <v Announcer>of their human potential promised in their genes. <v Announcer>Age by age we will examine how the world shapes each of us and why these <v Announcer>children are destined to inherit the life of their parents.

<v Announcer>We begin at the beginning of life when a human being's genetic potential is fixed. <v Announcer>Part of the genetic potential we call intelligence. <v Announcer>We know how to measure only a small part of intelligence. <v Announcer>But on that part, poor people are inferior. <v Dr. Richard Rose>The greater the poverty, the lower the measured IQ or the lower the <v Dr. Richard Rose>educational success or occupational achievement. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How much of the difference between the intelligence rich people <v Susan Lyle Kinney>and poor people is caused by environmental factors and how much by genetic factors? <v Dr. Richard Rose>I think it's impossible to say on the basis of present evidence. <v Dr. Richard Rose>My own assumptions, and I'm sure those of most behavioral and social scientists would be <v Dr. Richard Rose>that in today's American society, the greatest disparity <v Dr. Richard Rose>between rich and poor is clearly in opportunity. <v Announcer>Until that inequality of opportunity has been corrected, for many generations, <v Announcer>we will not know whether poor people are genetically inferior. <v Announcer>They may be superior in some traits.

<v Dr. Richard Rose>Poor people may have greater sensitivity to the needs of one another. <v Dr. Richard Rose>For example, than more affluent individuals who have less need perhaps of one another <v Dr. Richard Rose>in times of emotional or social or even economic crises. <v Dr. Richard Rose>To suggest that IQ and intellectual outcome and intellectual achievement is everything <v Dr. Richard Rose>is, I think, very misleading. There are other human qualities, sensitivity, <v Dr. Richard Rose>poetic ability, musical ability, dancing ability and so on. <v Dr. Richard Rose>Thousands of things that do not directly become <v Dr. Richard Rose>measured by IQ yardsticks. <v Announcer>Inequality of opportunity begins long before birth. <v Announcer>At the moment of conception. <v Dr. Richard Rose>We know that there are some very strong pre-birth effects on intelligence, but our <v Dr. Richard Rose>knowledge is quite indirect. We know, for example, that birth weight is associated with <v Dr. Richard Rose>IQ. That would suggest, for example, that prenatal nutrition, the <v Dr. Richard Rose>nutritional environment in utero may well contribute to measured intellectual outcome <v Dr. Richard Rose>during, say, the school age years. <v Dr. Myron Winick>These children who are severely malnourished and come from poverty when then

<v Dr. Myron Winick>just fed properly later on, do not recover in terms of their <v Dr. Myron Winick>their behavior and their mental development. <v Dr. Myron Winick>Our problem in this country is malnutrition, <v Dr. Myron Winick>probably of a different kind, as even among the poverty populations, <v Dr. Myron Winick>malnutrition, either of specific nutrients or hunger itself, <v Dr. Myron Winick>which, although it will not produce long term effects, will produce <v Dr. Myron Winick>short term effects and will cause problems in school during the time <v Dr. Myron Winick>that the child is hungry. <v Teacher>What'd you order for breakfast Rodney? <v Rodney Stanton>I had nothing for breakfast. <v Dr. Myron Winick>So if a child goes to school and is hungry every day, he's not gonna learn as well. <v Dr. Myron Winick>And if he's not going to learn as well, then he's not going to do as well. <v Dr. Myron Winick>And if he's not going to do as well, it's the same thing as if he were permanently <v Dr. Myron Winick>damaged, isn't it? I mean, the outcome is pretty much the same. <v Announcer>Nutritional deficiencies may have effects which persist, for generations. <v Announcer>The body shoemaker, a poor incubator for her child.

<v Announcer>The child then fails to grow well. <v Announcer>A much higher percentage of babies born to poor mothers are underweight at birth. <v Announcer>Many of these babies do not survive. <v Announcer>And those who do survive may suffer permanent effects. <v Dr. Myron Winick>Yes, these children are children that we would define at risk. <v Dr. Myron Winick>The infant mortality rate in the poor, as you point out, is <v Dr. Myron Winick>maybe double that of more affluent populations. <v Dr. Myron Winick>Now, it's interesting because the entire infant <v Dr. Myron Winick>mortality differences can be explained by the increased <v Dr. Myron Winick>amount of small babies in that group. <v Dr. Myron Winick>In fact, pound for pound [film skip] The poor baby does just as well as the <v Dr. Myron Winick>baby and the black baby. It's just. <v Dr. Myron Winick>The difference is that there are more small, poor babies and there are more small <v Dr. Myron Winick>black babies and the and the common denominator here is poverty. <v Dr. Myron Winick>We can reduce the incidence of small babies by feeding mothers adequately

<v Dr. Myron Winick>during pregnancy. <v Announcer>These children of poverty, born into the most unfavorable environment, <v Announcer>are the very children whose ability to cope with any environment is most likely <v Announcer>to have been compromised even before birth. <v Announcer>Very early in life one problem begins to compound another <v Announcer>long term studies of these small babies unready for life have led <v Announcer>to insights about the importance of the first few hours and days <v Announcer>of life to all of us. <v Dr. John Kennell>We found that parents who had babies that were sick, for example, premature <v Dr. John Kennell>babies, babies with even minor <v Dr. John Kennell>illnesses and were separated, that these babies' parents had much <v Dr. John Kennell>more difficulty with their children. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>All right. But what does all of this have to do with normal babies who would not like <v Susan Lyle Kinney>premature babies be separated from their parents? <v Dr. John Kennell>Well, I think it's got a great deal of relevance.

<v Dr. John Kennell>We all know that in the United States for the last generation, that <v Dr. John Kennell>parents in general were were routinely separated from their babies. <v Dr. John Kennell>The attachment to parents is something that is enhanced <v Dr. John Kennell>greatly. If parents are together with their baby immediately after birth. <v Nurse>What's his name? <v New Mother>I don't know what I'ma name him. <v Dr. John Kennell>Parents who are with their babies right after birth are more attentive <v Dr. John Kennell>to their babies, more interested in them, more affectionate with them. <v Dr. John Kennell>I think it's important to say that America, the human, is quite adaptable and <v Dr. John Kennell>that even if there is a separation, that most parents can do a <v Dr. John Kennell>good job of caring for their babies and getting attached for their baby. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Is there a reason that you think that first hour may be most important? <v Dr. John Kennell>We do know that in animals that the <v Dr. John Kennell>rapid attachment of a mother to a baby, the rapid development of mothering behavior <v Dr. John Kennell>is something that one can relate to specific hormones that

<v Dr. John Kennell>change during and at the time of delivery in the human that has <v Dr. John Kennell>not been identified yet. For example, in the goat, if you separate them the first five <v Dr. John Kennell>minutes, then the mother, when the baby comes to the mother, goat after five minutes. <v Dr. John Kennell>She's likely to butt the baby kick it, not nurse it. <v New Mother>Oh you so big! <v Dr. John Kennell>As he's lying here right now. He may well be hearing the mother's heartbeat, <v Dr. John Kennell>which was a sound he probably was used to a great deal during the <v Dr. John Kennell>preceding nine months, even at this early time. <v Dr. John Kennell>The baby is probably beginning to pick up the the <v Dr. John Kennell>odor fragrance of the mother so that <v Dr. John Kennell>few hours, few days from now, he would recognize his mother-. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>By smell! <v Dr. John Kennell>By smell. <v New Mother>You're the fattest little baby. <v Dr. John Kennell>Studies by Condon and Sander showed that very young newborn <v Dr. John Kennell>babies would move in rhythm to the mother's

<v Dr. John Kennell>voice. I think as we're learning more and more about the development of language, this is <v Dr. John Kennell>the beginning probably of a long process that will ultimately <v Dr. John Kennell>result in his being able to talk in coherent sentences <v Dr. John Kennell>to his family. <v New Mother>Go on, open your eyes! Come on <v Dr. John Kennell>And I think that what we're really seeing here is, is love <v Dr. John Kennell>making. Part of love making, if we carry it to older ages <v Dr. John Kennell>is often prolonged gazing, looking at the eye <v Dr. John Kennell>and stroking and kissing and caressing. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>What difference does the early bonding situation between mother and the child make <v Susan Lyle Kinney>throughout the whole life span of a social animal like man? <v Dr. John Kennell>On the infant side that close relationship with one <v Dr. John Kennell>person enables that baby to begin to develop <v Dr. John Kennell>a strong tie to the mother.

<v Dr. John Kennell>Developing that strong tie is very important for the baby <v Dr. John Kennell>and that usually a baby gets an attachment to one person first <v Dr. John Kennell>and then from it extends to others. <v Dr. John Kennell>And I think that these attachments that we're talking about starting <v Dr. John Kennell>before or at the time of birth are really the <v Dr. John Kennell>thing that glues us all together as human beings throughout our lifetime. <v Announcer>A human being's earliest connection to the world gives way at birth <v Announcer>to a social connection rooted in biology with one other human being. <v Announcer>It is through that connection that a new person in the world is fed, protected <v Announcer>and trained in the basic attitudes and skills necessary to operate in human society. <v Announcer>Attitudes like trust, skills like language. <v Boy>Is that the man with the yellow hat? <v Woman>No that's the sailor. <v Woman>That's another sailor and that's the captain. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>Well, of course, language development is crucial to the development of essentially

<v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>every other human attribute, the intellectual ones, the social and emotional <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>ones. There are those who have said this is the. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>Truly unique human attribute. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>And this is the type of skill in which children from disadvantaged backgrounds <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>tend to show great steps is in terms of facility with language. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Why do children from low-income backgrounds show such difficulty with language. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>During this time of life? The kind of stimulation that babies receive <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>is really critical. They have to be talked to. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>They have to be responded to. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>And if you are in a very crowded home where <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>there are perhaps too many children who are demanding attention, <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>it's very difficult to be a mother who can be a Johnny on the spot and respond <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>to every vocalization that a child might make and so on. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>[Film skips] <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>In their home settings, their parents may be undereducated, <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>underfinanced and so on themselves, they're struggling to make a living

<v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>and to cope with many very real problems. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>And they have often the time, the energy, the awareness, the need <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>for the kinds of things that think [Film skips] <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>Must have in order to develop properly. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>And yet the learnings that are occurring in this period of <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>life are really absolutely critical for the establishment of <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>a foundation of an ability to learn throughout the rest of life. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>How many people live in this apartment you're living in? <v Mother>Um. Let me see. Seven, eight nine. Nine. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Is that pretty crowded? <v Mother>Yes, it is. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Did this show up in the way you act toward each other? <v Mother>I don't think so. <v Mother>Cause we're all family. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, how do what does that make? <v Mother>You know, I don't know. <v Mother>I can't explain it. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>So, you-.

<v Mother>You know just being close to family, you know, it makes you want to be close to 'em. <v Mother>And the way things are going now, they just should be close as you can <v Mother>with your family. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>So you don't think this neighborhood in Washington is very safe for your kids. <v Mother>Not the kids? No, I don't think it's no place for kids. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, where are their toys? I don't see any toys for them. <v Mother>They don't have any. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>They don't have any toys? <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>Toys are extremely important to help children develop. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>You just can't underestimate their importance. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>I think I told you earlier about some of our work and trying to identify <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>components of the environment that foster development, the availability of plain curious <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>is one of the most important aspects of a supportive environment for children. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>All right. Well, what if the baby doesn't have the materials to work with? <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>He will learn, but he will be behind both in skills. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>By that, I mean, the facility will coordinate eyes and hands to do this kind of thing-. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Making his hands do what he wants. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>Right. And he will also be behind in terms of interest in them which is and the ability <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>to sustain attention.

<v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>And in doing what I call exploiting a toy. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>And finding its many uses. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>One of the things that's associated with creativity is being able to use the same thing <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>in more than one way. Sometimes people feel, well, you just can buy a toy for a child <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>and leave it there. And you'll frequently hear parents say, go play with your toys. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>But toys are given value by adult attention to a great extent. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>What if a child misses all of these experiences that you think are important in early <v Susan Lyle Kinney>childhood. Can that be made up? <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>I used to think they couldn't. And I'm not sure that they can now be totally made <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>up. Best evidence for that is you look at children of kindergarten age <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>from a middle-class background and from a seriously economically underprivileged <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>background. And there'll be a year to a year and a half's difference in terms <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>of mental social development in children in these two groups, the ones <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>from the the conditions of economic deprivation <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>are going to be, on the average, behind the others by year to a year and a half. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>You look at babies like these. You know how bright all our babies were here this morning.

<v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>They were talking. And so you do not find these differences in infancy. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>So I am still convinced that we must reach the children. <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>And much must reach the parents who provide the greatest amount of input during these <v Dr. Bettye Caldwell>very early years. <v Announcer>In these very early years when the brain is growing so rapidly, <v Announcer>the world the poor child is locked in does not provide the materials his brain needs <v Announcer>to develop properly. And so when he goes to school, we call him less intelligent <v Announcer>or even retarded. <v Announcer>The world he grows in also damages the most subtle and beautiful <v Announcer>quality of human intelligence: imagination. <v Announcer>Imagine yourself without imagination. <v Announcer>Research shows that imagination helps us control anger and aggression helps <v Announcer>us plan for the future, helps us learn, helps us succeed. <v Announcer>Imagine how moment by moment your experience of life would <v Announcer>be less if your world failed to provide

<v Announcer>what your brain needed to develop imagination. <v Announcer>By the time a child is as old as five, an equal opportunity for an education <v Announcer>means nothing unless he has had an equal opportunity for development of his body <v Announcer>and brain during his crucial first years. <v Announcer>The federal government is operating four parent-child development centers as a modest <v Announcer>experiment to help low-income mothers understand what their children need <v Announcer>to develop well. <v Dorothy Kispert>To say that only mothers who have limited incomes are in need <v Dorothy Kispert>of this knowledge and information just isn't so. <v Dorothy Kispert>I mean, I think we see too many of our young people in the total society who <v Dorothy Kispert>are not functioning well in school, are not well socialized. <v Dorothy Kispert>I think we can't look at the alcoholism, the drug abuse among young <v Dorothy Kispert>people. We're not talking now just in the black community. <v Dorothy Kispert>We're talking about the total society, the wider society. <v Dorothy Kispert>We don't really comprehend the kind of stress

<v Dorothy Kispert>that a lot of parents in the society are under today. <v Dorothy Kispert>They don't want to do the wrong things, and yet they don't know how to grapple with <v Dorothy Kispert>certain issues that are that are before them as parents. <v Dorothy Kispert>I think, the value of a center like this is that it provides that forum <v Dorothy Kispert>that provides the place for parents to come together. <v Group Leader>By you yourself giving them thar positive reinforcement <v Group Leader>that's even better than giving them candy because they're getting something from you. <v Group Leader>And that's what they want anyway. They want attention from you. <v Group Leader>Okay and if that attention was: Oh that was good! You know. <v Group Leader>or: Well let's try this again. <v Group Leader>Let's do something else. No, they won't.They don't necessarily want: Well here's a candy, go on. <v Group Member 1>But I have at times like trying to get him out the tub: Come on, big boy. <v Group Member 1>Let's get out the tub and: Oh you doing this and that and praising. <v Group Member 1>No, no, no. <v Group Member 1>He wants to stay in the tub. So I figured that's more important. <v Group Member 1>Then I just have to get him. Say we getting out of the tub and forget the praise.

<v Group Leader>Some things that you have to be direct with. <v Group Leader>OK. Now bath time is one. <v Group Leader>And you know, the next bed time after the bath is over with where you it's time for you <v Group Leader>to get out the tub, and it's time for you to go to bed. <v Group Leader>You know, be firm with it and be consistent with it, you know. <v Group Leader>Right. You know, if you want one day, we'll all we gonna do and the next time we're come <v Group Leader>on out this tub it's not gon' work. <v Dorothy Kispert>Given enough time and discussion and openness, often the parents come <v Dorothy Kispert>so close to what you know, the experts, so to speak, would say. <v Dorothy Kispert>But that isn't often possible for parents. <v Dorothy Kispert>You know, parents are working. They're living rather isolated lives in terms of getting <v Dorothy Kispert>that kind of help. They don't have anybody to check it out with. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Let me ask you something kind of off the subject. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>What relationship do you see between race and poverty <v Susan Lyle Kinney>in this country? <v Dorothy Kispert>I see every correlation there. <v Dorothy Kispert>I think that the fact that when we look at the poverty figures, such

<v Dorothy Kispert>a large percentage of the black population is still living in poverty in this country. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How do you personally feel about that? <v Dorothy Kispert>I guess the thing that bothers me when you hear so much talk about people being <v Dorothy Kispert>qualified, when you hear it talk about it's not right that <v Dorothy Kispert>they should be special treatment given to minority groups. <v Dorothy Kispert>I just wonder if those people have ever considered that, particularly in the black <v Dorothy Kispert>community, that people have been waiting 300 years and that nothing was being said all <v Dorothy Kispert>those years when people did not have access. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>And it still has a lot to do with who gets the resources in this country, who's poor and <v Susan Lyle Kinney>who's not. <v Dorothy Kispert>Oh, yes. And I think I think it's important to to put that in some perspective. <v Dorothy Kispert>I think it leaves us understanding that we <v Dorothy Kispert>still have a lot of work to do in order to make this a more open, responsive <v Dorothy Kispert>society. You see I'm not sure that we would be having the environmental problems <v Dorothy Kispert>that we're having today had we been able to learn

<v Dorothy Kispert>something from the American Indians about the land and its use <v Dorothy Kispert>and how you respect it. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>So the prevailing culture may not always be right. <v Dorothy Kispert>The prevailing culture needs to understand that it has something to offer, <v Dorothy Kispert>obviously, but so do other people. <v Dorothy Kispert>That's the problem. And not being able to learn from other people. <v Dorothy Kispert>What is it that these people bring to our culture that we would do <v Dorothy Kispert>well to emulate or to think about? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How about blacks? You've given me an idea, an example on the Indians. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>What can blacks bring to that? <v Dorothy Kispert>I think blacks bring humanity. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How? <v Dorothy Kispert>I think black people tend to be <v Dorothy Kispert>a little more spiritual. <v Dorothy Kispert>That ability to relate in a human way to people. <v Dorothy Kispert>There's often a lot of joy. There's a lot of ability

<v Dorothy Kispert>to be joyful. I think among black people, I think the society would do well <v Dorothy Kispert>to have some of that. <v David>Hey, look at my baby. <v Nathan>And they doin' what? <v David>We've gotta straighten you out. <v Nathan>They're gettin'-. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Wait a minute. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Your baby- is this your baby. <v Linda>No! <v David>This is my neice. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>You're niece? Now wait a minute, how is she your niece? <v David>Well, we-. <v David>Half niece. <v Linda>Well, we if he considered me as a sister. <v Linda>Because we're such good friends. <v Linda>Don't you-. <v Nathan>Leave her alone! <v Linda>You're going to knock over my Kool-Aid! <v Nathan>Let her sleep. <v David>I didn't bother her. That kid is doing more good than anything. <v Nathan>Probably make her jaw fall off. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, you sure do want to sit and talk to us for a while? <v Nathan>About what? <v Susan Lyle Kinney> Oh, whatever. <v Nathan>Anything? You get up. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How do you feel about these little people. <v David>Those kids? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Yeah. <v David>I love 'em. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>You love 'em? <v David>I got three of my own. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>You do? <v David>Yeah. <v Susan Lyle Kinney> Do you live with them? <v David>No. But I see them every once in a while.

<v Susan Lyle Kinney>Did you ever want a family all together? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Your one woman and your own kids. <v David>I've always wanted that. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Did you mean to have those kids. <v David>No. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>No. <v David>No. <v David>But they're here and I love 'em. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Y'know while we're talking about how you feel about this baby? <v David>That baby means a lot to me. Not even my baby, but it means a lot to me because <v David>the baby's going to grow up without a lot of things that it should have. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Like what? <v David>Home. <v David>My money. It needs a father, too. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Why? <v David>Would you like to grow up without a father? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well tell me why she needs a father. What can father to do for that baby? <v David>A lot more than what a mother can do by herself. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Right. But your own kids are growing up without a father, aren't they? <v David>But it's not by choice. <v David>To have to have a father. <v David>See I didn't have my father.

<v Susan Lyle Kinney> You didn't have your father? Why not? <v David>He left, you know. <v David>To enjoy kids is to feel something in your heart. <v David>And I've got everything in my heart forthese kids. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>All right, you got three kids and 33 years old. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How many kids we have by the time you're 40? <v David>No more. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>No more? <v David>[Laughs] No more. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, how can you be so sure? You said these three weren't intended. <v David>You can tell these things after a while. <v David>I don't wa- no. I just don't want my kids to come up and go through the hell I went <v David>through. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Tell me about the hell you went through. <v David>I could. <v David>And it's really it's really something that you can't explain. <v David>You can't explain. <v David>Hell's here. <v Nathan>Here they're placing ?bombs? <v David>They say go to heaven, not to Hell. <v David>You live in Hell. Hell is <v David>right here on the streets.

<v Nathan>A child grows up without a father and mother. <v Nathan>Yes. It's a da- it could be a damage to them. <v Nathan>Very much so. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Was it a damage to you? <v Nathan>No. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Was it a damage to-. <v Nathan>Cause my mother, my mother and father gave me so much love while they were there that <v Nathan>I understood when they were gone on. <v Nathan>It didn't- it take it didn't take a whole lot. <v Nathan>It's just there. It's just there. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How old were you when you lost. 'em? <v Nathan>I was 10 when my mother died. <v Nathan>And after that, I didn't see my father very much at all there. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>So do you think that the thing that makes you succeed with your family, makes you stay <v Susan Lyle Kinney>with them, it makes it work good, is that your own mother and your own father gave you <v Susan Lyle Kinney>that kind of love when you started out? <v Nathan>I'm sure it is. They give me a lot of love. <v Nathan>We didn't have a lot, but hey love is there. <v Nathan>Love, love will make the world go 'round. <v David>Go comb your hair. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Did you Linda have the same sort of situation to grow up in that Nathan talked about? <v Linda>I just met my father about a couple of years ago.

<v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, how was it? <v Ben>I need a comb. <v Linda>It was all right. Go look in there on my dresser. <v Linda>It was all right you know. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well what did you miss, Linda? <v Linda>Nothing really, I guess. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>You don't think it made any difference to you not having a? <v Linda>No, not really. Well, I think maybe if I would have had my real if my real <v Linda>father would have been around, I would have never had a baby so, young either. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How young did you have a baby? <v Linda>I was twelve and I had my first baby. <v Linda>Well, then you grew up yourself without a father, and now you're kind <v Linda>of in the same situation with your own children. <v Linda>What do you want Ben? <v David>Played it. <v Ben>I combed my hair. <v David>OK. Now go up there and dry it. <v David>You've got water all on top of your head. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Hey wait a minute Ben come, come, come back here just for a minute. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Now who is this guy talking to you? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Was he a friend of yours, David? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well now wait a minute he told you to go upstairs and comb your hair and you did it

<v Susan Lyle Kinney>right? <v Ben>[Nods]. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>You take orders from him? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Huh? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Mm hmm. <v David>Don't look at me I ain't got nothin' to say Ben! <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Say, Ben, Ben. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Where's your daddy? <v Ben>At Texas <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Come here, I can't hear you. Would you look at me? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Where's your daddy? <v Ben>At Texas. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>At Texas? What's he doing down there? <v Ben>I don't know. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Do you wish he were here. <v Ben>[Shrugs]. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Why? <v Ben>'Cause. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>So you love friends who are kind of taking the place, your daddy, have you? <v Ben>Uh huh. <v Nathan>If anything has to do with me. <v Nathan>I'm gonna help him out as long as I can. <v Nathan>People have to learn to be together <v Nathan>and then we all make it. <v Dorothy Kispert>And I think we know that those people who tend to big quotes make it <v Dorothy Kispert>often do so because of what they start out with from the beginning.

<v Susan Lyle Kinney>What kind of resources? What do they start out with in the beginning? <v Dorothy Kispert>Often they start out with healthy parents. <v Dorothy Kispert>They start out with two. They start out with parents who've had some education. <v Dorothy Kispert>There's a whole syndrome that tends to come into people's minds when you start talking <v Dorothy Kispert>about poor black, <v Dorothy Kispert>often single parents and welfare. <v Dorothy Kispert>You know, it's like a syndrome that comes into people's heads without realizing the <v Dorothy Kispert>majority of people on welfare in this country are white. <v Dorothy Kispert>And it's never discussed. Who are they? <v Dorothy Kispert>Why are they there? <v Dorothy Kispert>And I dare say that many of them are there for the very same reasons that blacks are <v Dorothy Kispert>there. <v Janice>My husband was sent to prison is why we <v Janice>had to go on welfare. I was too proud. <v Janice>I guess, you know, because I said I never, ever call <v Janice>anybody, you know, ask them for help. <v Janice>But as it went on and the hungrier you get, you do

<v Janice>because on welfare, you're not entitled to make any <v Janice>money whatsoever. You know, if you make five extra dollars a month, <v Janice>you have to tell them you don't have five dollars. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Have you worked a little bit on the side? Made a little bit. <v Janice>Yeah. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>And you don't tell them. <v Janice>And I don't tell them. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, Janice, why did you cheat the government out of that money? <v Janice>I didn't cheat the government out of the money. <v Janice>I don't think you know. <v Janice>You know, I needed at that time it was Christmas and I needed <v Janice>the extra money for my kids for Christmas. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Do they meddle in your life a lot? <v Janice>Yes. They come out a lot, you know, and they check on your kids <v Janice>and make sure you know that you keep your kids clean and that you're home with them <v Janice>and all this sort of stuff. <v Janice>You know, they go as far as checking in your cupboards. <v Janice>And it's just like Germany, I would think you do what your welfare

<v Janice>caseworker tells you to do or you don't get welfare the next month. <v Janice>And it's just that cut and dry. <v Janice>You know, when we when I cheated, as they say, and I had <v Janice>that three hundred extra dollars, we lived in a car. <v Janice>January and February. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>You and your six children lived in a car for-. <v Janice>Yeah. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>For two winter months. <v Janice>Yes. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>In Colorado. <v Janice>Yes. Without a back window. <v Janice>Yeah. We had it taped with plastic and things. <v Janice>But we actually lived in the car. <v Janice>How did you do it? You know, we went to the different Worsten park and we cook <v Janice>our breakfast and the kids played, you know. <v Janice>So I called my caseworker and told her what had happened. <v Janice>You know, and she said, well, call Denver Housing Authority. <v Janice>You know, that's the housing for the public <v Janice>assistance, you know. So I called them. <v Janice>Well they don't have anything, they didn't have any vacancies. <v Janice>I said, well, what am I supposed to do?

<v Janice>And they said, well, we don't know. As soon as we get a vacancy. <v Janice>We will call you. I said, well, how in the hell are you going to call me? <v Janice>I don't have a telephone. You know, I don't have an address. <v Janice>I don't have a place to live. <v Janice>And they said, well, you know, that's all we can do. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, now, listen, you've cheated the government in a little ways. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Would you say? <v Janice>OK. Yeah. Three hundred dollars. I cheated. <v Janice>But. When you know, there's just you and six children, <v Janice>you do you'll do almost anything. <v Janice>To make sure that those six children have a roof over their head and food in their <v Janice>stomach and clothes on their back. <v Janice>So you know me, you will, you know. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Are you telling me that in order for you and your children to survive, you've had to <v Susan Lyle Kinney>cheat? <v Janice>Sure. You've. You have to cheat because you cannot live on what welfare gives you. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>What are your choices? <v Janice>My choices. I have no choices. <v Announcer>For these middle class children. Being poor is simply a matter of waiting out a temporary <v Announcer>catastrophe. But for a child whose family has been locked in poverty <v Announcer>for generations, it is a matter of overcoming deficiencies of mind and

<v Announcer>body accumulated from grandmother to mother to child. <v Announcer>Deficiencies in mind and body brought on by poor nutrition, <v Announcer>poor education, a harsh environment and the hopelessness <v Announcer>that comes from seeing no way out. <v Announcer>But this is America, and we always find solutions. <v Dr. David Welkart>Education by some people in the early 60s was seen as the answer <v Dr. David Welkart>to poverty. The answer to the lack of advantage. <v Dr. David Welkart>Give the child a better education and we will close the gap between the disadvantaged <v Dr. David Welkart>classes, so to speak, and the advantaged classes. <v Dr. David Welkart>And education was the key. What we're finding in our studies is that it can close <v Dr. David Welkart>the gap about halfway, but not fully. <v Announcer>The solution falls short. <v Announcer>Preschool Head Start is America's solution for the children of poverty. <v Announcer>Research has shown that the modest IQ gains of Headstart students <v Announcer>did not bring them up to the level of other children.

<v Announcer>And furthermore, these IQ gains had disappeared within three years. <v Announcer>Yet a cost benefit analysis shows that preschool is worth the millions <v Announcer>of dollars we are investing in it every year. <v Dr. David Welkart>What we found was quite striking. The children who attended preschool did not require <v Dr. David Welkart>as much special education and were not retained as frequently in grade <v Dr. David Welkart>as children who were from the control group or the children did not have preschool. <v Dr. David Welkart>Second is, they had higher projected earnings in their lifetime. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>The special classes then are quite expensive? <v Dr. David Welkart>School special classes and most states run about anywhere from two to four times the cost <v Dr. David Welkart>of a regular class placement. <v Preschooler 1>[Hits other student] This ain't no farm it's a parking structure, right? <v Preschooler 2>Now we gotta go back and pay for it. <v Teacher>What happened? <v Preschooler 3>He hit me, I'm so mad. <v Teacher>What happened? <v Preschooler 1>The house fell down. <v Teacher>Right. <v Teacher>What should you do instead of hitting him,

<v Teacher>you didn't know who knocked the house down? <v Preschooler 1>Well really I knocked the house down because it was going to be a parking structure. <v Dr. David Welkart>I think what a- when it- when a <v Dr. David Welkart>child comes to school, one of the most important aspects is that the child is <v Dr. David Welkart>able to establish some kind of communication with the adult in the classroom. <v Dr. David Welkart>Good morning. Thank you. Goodbye. <v Dr. David Welkart>Yes, I will. Etc.. <v Dr. David Welkart>One problem that sometimes poor children have with children poverty is that they <v Dr. David Welkart>do not establish that relationship very rapidly or they establish it <v Dr. David Welkart>only with difficulty. And it's not it's more than just trust. <v Dr. David Welkart>It's just an ongoings, verbal or relationship with the with the adult in the classroom. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, what makes the difference in the child's ability to set up that relationship is it <v Susan Lyle Kinney>just language. <v Dr. David Welkart>Well language could certainly be part of it. <v Dr. David Welkart>But it may also be crowded home conditions where the child has to live in <v Dr. David Welkart>a environment where there are many people in small space. <v Dr. David Welkart>It may be that the problem of nutrition, food, not enough <v Dr. David Welkart>or inadequate. The child develops a certain lethargic reaction, which is then

<v Dr. David Welkart>characterized his relationship with peers and adults. <v Dr. David Welkart>The child may simply be not curious, doesn't <v Dr. David Welkart>realize that he can ask questions and get answers from adults, and which <v Dr. David Welkart>if he's had to divide his mother's time and there's there's too many kids in the home, he <v Dr. David Welkart>may not have had much of that opportunity, but there was none of those things I said were <v Dr. David Welkart>things about intelligence. <v Dr. David Welkart>They were they were they were ways of reacting, interacting and dealing with <v Dr. David Welkart>with the world. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>What are some of his strengths? <v Dr. David Welkart>The one they're more equipped to work with, with a larger number of people. <v Dr. David Welkart>They've had more experience of that. <v Dr. David Welkart>And typically, I think <v Dr. David Welkart>they may also be a little more self-reliant. <v Dr. David Welkart>They can, in a sense, are used to being on their own a little more and used to taking <v Dr. David Welkart>sort of care of themselves a little more. <v Dr. David Welkart>But I think that that sometimes those factors work to their disadvantage in <v Dr. David Welkart>the school if they're so independent that they don't drop on the

<v Dr. David Welkart>teacher, then their strength becomes an academic setting, a weakness. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>So the very characteristics that they may have needed to adapt to their environment <v Susan Lyle Kinney>of poverty may make them less able to adapt <v Susan Lyle Kinney>to a middle-class school situation. <v Dr. David Welkart>That would be true to some point. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>And most school situations are middle-class situations are they not? <v Dr. David Welkart>Even schools in the disadvantaged neighborhoods. <v Dr. David Welkart>Often you would call middle-class schools. <v Dr. David Welkart>But I think that term is often over overused middle class in the sense of <v Dr. David Welkart>order, discipline, control by the authority figure this <v Dr. David Welkart>in this sense, a middle-class. But then from that perspective, you know, I don't like it <v Dr. David Welkart>either. Middle-class youngsters are just more used to put up with it. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Why don't you like it? <v Dr. David Welkart>I think it's missed training for poor adults, for adulthood. <v Dr. David Welkart>For example, that creativity, too. <v Dr. David Welkart>How does an adult become creative? <v Dr. David Welkart>You don't suddenly tell a child now you're 18, now you're an adult.

<v Dr. David Welkart>Now you can be creative because you're out of school. <v Dr. David Welkart>You don't have to follow our directions anymore. <v Dr. David Welkart>Do our tasks that we've set up for you. <v Dr. David Welkart>I think it has been built right back in. Well, some of the program we've looked at here <v Dr. David Welkart>within the school here, we turned to the children constantly and asked them <v Dr. David Welkart>to to be creative. We all say in those words, but we say, what do you think? <v Dr. David Welkart>How would you do it? Would you try it another way? <v Dr. David Welkart>What did you do today? Tell us about it. <v Dr. David Welkart>Show us. And so the child has an opportunity over and over again to be creative. <v Teacher 2>How are you going to carve? What are you going to do? <v Student>Just a little hole, cut out the top. <v Teacher 2>Just a little tiny hole? <v Student>Just stab it with a pencil. <v Teacher 2>Where is the light going to come out of this thing? <v Teacher 2>If the hole goes in here and the batteries in the hole where does the light show. <v Student>out the front. <v Teacher 2>Out the front. The hole is going to go all the way through? <v Student>[Nods]. <v Teacher 2>Alright. Now, what- can you explain this to me? <v Student>'Cause that's the battery bar. I couldn't make it so it would be- I couldn't make it so it would be ?unintelligible? <v Teacher 2>Alright so this is a battery but it sits right on the floor in here?

<v Student>Yeah. <v Teacher 2>OK. So battery sits on what? <v Teacher 2>And what's this part? <v Student>That's the light. <v Teacher 2>OK. So there's all the ?fuse? <v Teacher 2>That makes sense as long as when you explain it to me. <v Teacher 2>So this is like the inside and this is outside of the light. <v Student>The butts going to go in that hole. <v Teacher 2>All right. Are you gonna do it right here? Are you going to go to the art area or <v Teacher 2>construction? <v Student>I'm going to do it right here. <v Teacher 2>OK. <v Dr. David Welkart>In a sense, the child can move here without much restriction because what we really want <v Dr. David Welkart>is a child's engagement with the activity, not a particular kind of, you know, <v Dr. David Welkart>sitting up straight and saying in one place and not talking until spoken to. <v Dr. David Welkart>And these kinds of things, we rarely find adults who will conform to that sort of <v Dr. David Welkart>very rigid behavior, except in places where they've chosen to be such as <v Dr. David Welkart>a movie theater or a church. And so we feel that children this age need that kind of <v Dr. David Welkart>freedom to really do their best work. <v Dr. David Welkart>We're also trying to develop within the child a sense of personal purpose, of <v Dr. David Welkart>personal control, of personal worth.

<v Dr. David Welkart>And I think that comes by giving the child the freedom to be an individual within this <v Dr. David Welkart>kind of context. So he makes decisions. <v Dr. David Welkart>He moves. He says yes. He says no. <v Dr. David Welkart>He makes his own plans. And this reflects on him then as a sense of <v Dr. David Welkart>his own worth and what he's doing with himself and where he's going and what's happening. <v Dr. David Welkart>The society sets up a group of kids for failure <v Dr. David Welkart>in the public schools, which are tuned in to preparing people for <v Dr. David Welkart>our our society at large, the workforce. <v Dr. David Welkart>These kinds of things. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>What do you mean? It sets up some failure? <v Dr. David Welkart>Er- Well, in setting a child up for failure. We bring a young child with, say, without <v Dr. David Welkart>the verbal skills into a setting and say that we're going to teach you by <v Dr. David Welkart>a strictly verbal method. <v Dr. David Welkart>We're setting the child up for for failure. <v Dr. David Welkart>And we're just. And then we're surprised. <v Dr. David Welkart>And do we blame him when he doesn't learn as well as he could through that through <v Dr. David Welkart>that procedure? We need to be able to meet children more where they're where <v Dr. David Welkart>they are and work with them and their level and develop with them at their own pace

<v Dr. David Welkart>through the Great Society programs. There was an effort to to use education, <v Dr. David Welkart>use job training, which is this kind of education as a way of solving the problems <v Dr. David Welkart>of poverty. But it didn't it doesn't function that way. <v Dr. David Welkart>It's much more resistant than just that. <v Dr. David Welkart>We have a whole underclass now that don't work second or third generation kids on <v Dr. David Welkart>welfare, for example. <v Dr. David Welkart>That group is essentially being cut out of participation fully in our society. <v Dr. David Welkart>And education alone can't bring them back in. <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>The Head Start program is pretty much the the hallmark of this federal <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>government services to poor children. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Is this then the primary government, federal government agency <v Susan Lyle Kinney>dealing with the problems of children? <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>Well, the administration for children, youth and families <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>does carry with it the tradition of being the focal point <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>for advocacy for children in the federal government. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>What importance do children have to this administration?

<v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>Clearly in terms of priorities coming out of AGW <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>in any event- if we look at last year's budget, for example, we see the <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>children fared extremely well. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How well, for instance, tell me what you're what budget your administration has here. <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>About seven hundred and twenty five millions. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, that for a national agency, does it compare <v Susan Lyle Kinney>very favorably with other issues that the administration considers important? <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>I really think it's it's unfair and not at all useful to <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>make comparisons between one budget and another budget. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Right. But don't you think that the amount of money that this government spends on a <v Susan Lyle Kinney>problem indicates reflects the importance that we give to it, <v Susan Lyle Kinney>to the problem? <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>Yes, that is one indicator. <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>It is an indicator that also

<v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>borrows from what we know about <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>a certain problem and about solutions to a certain problem. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How often do you see Joe Califano? <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>I see him. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>He's the secretary of HHS,. <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>That's right. <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>I see Joe Cano at least once <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>every two weeks in one meeting or another. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Once every two weeks, one on one meeting with him? <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>No I do not. My boss sees him on a one on one meeting. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>So you never see him on a one on one meeting? <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>No, I do not. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>I think many people in business as well as government consider who did you report <v Susan Lyle Kinney>to to be a clear reflection of the importance of an agency in <v Susan Lyle Kinney>the whole scheme of things. <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>I happen to think I have one of the most important jobs in the federal government. <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>So it's kind of difficult for me to-. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>I know Dr. Cardenas that you think that, but does Secretary Califano think that <v Susan Lyle Kinney>if you never even see him directly.

<v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>I think he does. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>How can I tell? <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>Well, one of the ways that you <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>could tell if you were here would be <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>to come face to face with the interest that he shows <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>in this agency. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>What I'm trying to get at is how much are you able to do <v Susan Lyle Kinney>without a very clear and strong indication of support <v Susan Lyle Kinney>from the administration and from the people of this country? <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>Well, I think you've hit on a on a <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>on a very good point. And that is that we do need <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>to have a greater awareness not only of the <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>problems of children in this country, but at the very special <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>place that children have in our society. <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>Clearly, as a as a bureaucrat <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>in the AGW system, I cannot write

<v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>laws and <v Dr. Blandina Cardenas>there must be broad support among the general public for these issues. <v Dr .Robert Aldritch>I deplore the increasing the attitude that is <v Dr .Robert Aldritch>all around of saying, you know, that's somebody else's child. <v Dr .Robert Aldritch>It's none of my responsibility. And yet these are the future of the nation. <v Dr .Robert Aldritch>And that we have in the future is going to depend on how we care. <v Dr .Robert Aldritch>Across the board for our children and our own children and our own family <v Dr .Robert Aldritch>are going to have to deal with children who have had an impoverished life. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, what kind of people would we have if we ignored these problems? <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>One kind of person that we have growing up is a generation who <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>think that the way the real world is is to be on welfare. <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>They- these are children that are living currently in welfare families <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>where welfare money is given to <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>them for for food and other things.

<v Dr. Robert Aldritch>But whether it comes a whole lot of other people who are kind of keeping <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>an eye on them to be sure that they don't do the wrong thing or spend the money for <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>the wrong thing. And the children growing up in this environment are very perceptive <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>that this is an externally controlled kind of a life with <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>free money. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>That someone else is telling them what to do and how to live. <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>They don't learn one of the basic things that's important to American <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>philosophy, which is to take responsibility, I guess, then <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>you see this played out on the streets with certain, well, rather marked <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>rise in crime, delinquency and various things of that kind, which are a reflection, I <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>think, over this failure to instill responsibility in <v Dr. Robert Aldritch>children. <v Announcer>Many families do stay on welfare for generations, but most use it for short <v Announcer>periods to help them through hard times. <v Announcer>This woman is applying for welfare in Denver. <v Welfare Office Front Desk>Number 39. <v Welfare Office Front Desk>Do you have some identification?

<v Welfare Mother>I guess a California I.D. <v Welfare Mother>and my Social Security number. <v Welfare Worker>Is this your current name? <v Welfare Mother>Yes. <v Welfare Worker>Have <v Welfare Worker>you ever been married? <v Welfare Mother>Yes. <v Welfare Worker>Husband's first name. <v Welfare Mother>Lester. <v Welfare Worker>Are you together, separated, or divorced? <v Welfare Mother>Separated I guess. I haven't seen him for a week. <v Welfare Worker>What state were you born in? <v Welfare Mother>I was born in California. <v Welfare Worker>Your husband's birthday. <v Welfare Mother> It's 10 one 40. <v Welfare Worker>Where was he born? <v Welfare Mother>In New York. <v Welfare Worker>Did you come here with your husband? <v Welfare Mother>Yes. <v Welfare Worker>And he left the family a week ago? <v Welfare Mother>Yes. <v Welfare Worker>Was he working here? <v Welfare Mother>Just through part-time offices.

<v Welfare Worker>Let's see. Now, these are your attorney cards. <v Welfare Worker>You take these over to our attorney's office at 520 Cherokee and they're going to talk <v Welfare Worker>to you about filing for child support. <v Welfare Worker>So I want you to do that this afternoon, if you can. <v Welfare Worker>Have any other source of income? <v Welfare Mother>No. <v Welfare Worker>And were you on assistance in Indianapolis? <v Welfare Mother>No. <v Welfare Worker>Do you have any idea where your husband is right now? <v Welfare Mother>No, I don't. <v Welfare Worker>Your technician's name is Mercy Martinez. Call her up, and she's gonna make an <v Welfare Worker>appointment with you for the home visit. <v Welfare Worker>You're eligible for 307 dollars a month. <v Welfare Mother>I have to go down there any time of day and pick up food stamps. <v Welfare Mother>But first, I got to go to the attorneys. <v Welfare Mother>The kids are getting awfully hungry and I haven't eaten since this morning. <v Welfare Mother>So I'm getting fussy and everything. <v Welfare Mother>One quarter left. So that means I have to go now and get those food stamps if we want

<v Welfare Mother>lunch today. <v Attorney Office Worker>OK. You have three children. <v Welfare Mother>Yes. <v Attorney Office Worker>OK. Is there just one father? <v Welfare Mother>Yes. <v Attorney Office Worker>Did you just separate now? <v Welfare Mother>Yes-. <v Attorney Office Worker>Or have you gotten a divorce? <v Welfare Mother>I haven't seen him for a week. <v Welfare Mother>And I take it that he ran out on me the way he was acting before <v Welfare Mother>he left. <v Attorney Office Worker>Have you split up before? <v Welfare Mother>No. <v Attorney Office Worker>This is the first time. <v Welfare Mother>Yeah. <v Attorney Office Worker>And this was about a week ago. <v Welfare Mother>Yeah. <v Attorney Office Worker>Do you think he'll be coming back? <v Welfare Mother>The way he was talking I hope he doesn't, because he was really mean with us <v Welfare Mother>and the kids yelling at us and throwing tantrums and things. <v Welfare Mother>So I hope he doesn't come back. <v Attorney Office Worker>Did he hit you? <v Welfare Mother>No. <v Attorney Office Worker>How about his parents do know where they live. <v Welfare Mother>No, I don't. <v Attorney Office Worker>Do you know their names? <v Welfare Mother>No. <v Attorney Office Worker>You don't know his parents' names? <v Welfare Mother>Nuh huh. <v Attorney Office Worker>OK. Well, you know, it looks to me that we don't have much of a lead on this guy. <v Attorney Office Worker>We'll do a motor vehicle check, but I think it's going to be hopeless.

<v Attorney Office Worker>And so we're pretty much depending on you. <v Attorney Office Worker>If he comes back. Well, if he comes back and you reconcile, you'll be off assistance. <v Attorney Office Worker>Yeah. But if you hear anything about him or where he is or anything like that, let us <v Attorney Office Worker>know. <v Announcer>[Film skips] ?I've been collecting? Welfare. <v Announcer>At the time she applied for welfare, her husband had not really deserted the family. <v Welfare Mother>Well, we've been traveling pretty much and the people we know travel also. <v Welfare Mother>And so that's how they get their help pretty quick. <v Welfare Mother>And then they worked for maybe a year in one place and <v Welfare Mother>they get tired and they decided they'd better move on. <v Welfare Mother>So they move on. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>And then when they move on, they don't have enough money to-. <v Welfare Mother>Right. They just barely got enough money to get there and get a hotel room <v Welfare Mother>or whatever. And then the cycle starts all over again. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>So you go into the new town and what do you have to do to welfare? <v Susan Lyle Kinney>What do you have to say to welfare to get it? <v Welfare Mother>Well, it's usually the wife and the kids. <v Welfare Mother>They go down there and they say, well, my old man's gone.

<v Welfare Mother>I don't know where he is. We just got into town when we got here, he was supposed to have <v Welfare Mother>a job and the job fell through. <v Welfare Mother>So we really need the help now. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>?Alvy?, what's this life, this Trav'lin life of yours like for the kids? <v Welfare Mother>They don't seem to mind it. You know, they were buggging us about going. <v Welfare Mother>They say, well, come on, we're getting tired of this place. <v Welfare Mother>Let's go. I think they all got the gypsy blood in 'em. <v Welfare Mother>Really, once she gets in school, we stay in a place until she's through that school year <v Welfare Mother>and then we go in the summer usually. <v Welfare Mother>'Cause the- takin' her out in the middle of the year. That's not right. <v Welfare Mother>And besides, that's usually winter there and nobody hardly ever travels in winter. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Will you ever stay on welfare very long? <v Welfare Mother>No. Huh. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Why not? <v Welfare Mother>Well, it's the restrictions are too bad. <v Welfare Mother>You know, they check too often and it's not very <v Welfare Mother>much money and. <v Welfare Mother>We see like, if we could both work, we'd be doing better. <v Susan Lyle Kinney>Would you like yourself better?

<v Susan Lyle Kinney>Well, yeah, I like making my own money and not having a mooch <v Susan Lyle Kinney>off everybody.