PBS NewsHour; August 25, 2014 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS

>> Ifill: THOUSANDS OF MOURNERS GATHERED IN MISSOURI FOR THE FUNERAL OF MICHAEL BROWN. WE LOOK FOR LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE FATAL POLICE SHOOTING OF THE UNARMED TEEN IN FERGUSON. GOOD EVENING, I'M GWEN IFILL, JUDY WOODRUFF IS AWAY. ALSO AHEAD THIS MONDAY, WE WEIGH THE THREAT TO THE WEST BY THE RADICAL ISLAMIC STATE GROUP, AND DEBATE WHAT ACTIONS THE U.S. SHOULD TAKE. PLUS, RETHINKING COLLEGE, HARI SREENIVASAN BEGINS A WEEK-LONG LOOK AT FRESH IDEAS DESIGNED TO IMPROVE THE VALUE OF HIGHER EDUCATION. TONIGHT, AWARDING DEGREES BASED ON COMPETENCY RATHER THAN CREDIT HOURS.

>> THE CREDIT HOUR IS REALLY ONLY GOOD AT ONE THING, OR AT WHICH IS TELLING PEOPLE HOW LONG YOU SAT, HOW LONG WERE YOU IN CLASS. IT'S NOT VERY GOOD AT TELLING PEOPLE WHAT YOU'VE ACTUALLY LEARNED.

>> Ifill: THOSE ARE JUST SOME OF THE STORIES WE'RE COVERING ON TONIGHT'S "PBS NEWSHOUR."

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>> Ifill: AT LEAST 58 PEOPLE DIED IN A WAVE OF ATTACKS ACROSS IRAQ TODAY. MOST OF THE VIOLENCE TARGETED SHIITE DISTRICTS. SCORES OF PEOPLE WERE WOUNDED. THE DEADLIEST BLAST HAPPENED AT THIS MOSQUE IN BAGHDAD. A SUICIDE BOMBER DETONATED A VEST PACKED WITH EXPLOSIVES AS WORSHIPPERS WERE LEAVING AFTER MIDDAY PRAYERS. WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS SAY THE U.S. PAID NO RANSOM TO WIN THE RELEASE OF AN AMERICAN FREELANCE REPORTER ON SUNDAY. PETER THEO CURTIS WAS FREED AFTER BEING HELD FOR TWO YEARS BY THE "AL-NUSRA FRONT" IN SYRIA. THE GROUP IS AFFILIATED WITH AL- QAEDA. WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN JOSH EARNEST SAYS THE GOVERNMENT OF QATAR NEGOTIATED THE RELEASE.

>> THEY TOLD MR. CURTIS' FAMILY THAT THEY DID NOT PAY A RANSOM. THE UNITED STATES MADE CLEAR AND IT IS CLEAR TO THE QATARI GOVERNMENT THAT WE DID NOT WANT THEM TO PAY A RANSOM. IN FACT, WE ENCOURAGED THEM NOT TO PAY A RANSOM.

>> Ifill: ANOTHER AMERICAN JOURNALIST, JAMES FOLEY, WAS BEHEADED LAST WEEK BY THE "ISLAMIC STATE" GROUP. EGYPT PRESSED NEW EFFORTS TODAY TO BROKER ANOTHER TRUCE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND "HAMAS," BUT THERE WAS NO BREAK IN THE FIGHTING. ISRAELI AIR STRIKES BLASTED TARGETS IN GAZA, KILLING AT LEAST NINE PALESTINIANS, AND "HAMAS" MILITANTS FIRED MORE THAN 130 ROCKETS INTO SOUTHERN ISRAEL. ONE PERSON WAS INJURED BY A MORTAR BOMB.

>> Ifill: THERE'S WORD THAT EGYPT AND THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES HAVE INTERVENED IN LIBYA, WITH AIR STRIKES ON ISLAMIST MILITIAS. SENIOR AMERICAN OFFICIALS TOLD "THE NEW YORK TIMES" TODAY THAT IT'S HAPPENED TWICE IN THE LAST SEVEN DAYS, AROUND TRIPOLI. FIGHTING ERUPTED IN JUNE AFTER ISLAMISTS LOST CONTROL OF PARLIAMENT. TODAY, THE OLD PARLIAMENT RECONVENED AND VOTED TO DISBAND THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT. IN UKRAINE, THE GOVERNMENT ACCUSED RUSSIA OF SENDING A DOZEN TANKS AND ARMORED VEHICLES ACROSS ITS SOUTHEASTERN BORDER. OFFICIALS SAID THEY ENTERED THE COUNTRY UNDER REBEL FLAGS, BUT WERE INTERCEPTED BY BORDER GUARDS. IN MOSCOW, THE RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER DISMISSED THOSE CLAIMS.

>> ( translated ): I HAVEN'T HEARD ABOUT THEM, BUT THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH MISINFORMATION AROUND ABOUT OUR INVASIONS. THERE WERE REPORTS SEVERAL DAYS AGO THAT THE UKRAINIAN ARMY DESTROYED A MILITARY CONVOY FROM RUSSIA, AND THAT THOSE VEHICLES CONTAINED DOCUMENTS ABOUT LEAVES OF ABSENCE. EVEN IF WE COULD IMAGINE THIS AS RESEMBLING TRUTH TO SOME EXTENT, WHO WOULD CARRY A LIBRARY ON MISSIONS LIKE THAT?

>> Ifill: IN ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT, UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT DISSOLVED PARLIAMENT AND CALLED FOR EARLY ELECTIONS IN OCTOBER. TRIBUTES POURED IN TODAY FOR RICHARD ATTENBOROUGH, THE OSCAR- WINNING BRITISH ACTOR AND DIRECTOR WHO DIED SUNDAY. HIS CAREER SPANNED MORE THAN 70 FILMS. SEJAL KARIAL OF INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NEWS LOOKS BACK ON HIS LIFE AND WORK.

>> Reporter: FOR MORE THAN SIXTY YEARS, RICHARD ATTENBOROUGH WAS SIMPLY A TOWERING PRESENCE IN CINEMA, WHETHER IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA OR BEHIND IT. HE WON HIS FIRST LEADING ROLE, AGED JUST 24, AS A SADISTIC GANGSTER IN "BRIGHTON ROCK." EVENTUALLY HOLLYWOOD CAME CALLING. AND HE STARRED OPPOSITE STEVE MCQUEEN IN ONE OF THE MOST CELEBRATED WAR FILMS EVER MADE, "THE GREAT ESCAPE." BUT RICHARD ATTENBOROUGH BECAME AS REVERED FOR HIS OFF-SCREEN TALENT AS HIS ON-SCREEN MAGNETISM. HE DIRECTED "GHANDI," STARRING BEN KINGLSEY, A FILM WHICH CAME TO DEFINE HIS CAREER. IT WON EIGHT OSCARS, INCLUDING FOR BEST DIRECTOR. IN 1993, HE BECAME A LIFE PEER. IT IS RARE TO FIND SUCH SUCCESSFUL AND CELEBRATED SIBLINGS AS LORD ATTENBROUGH AND HIS BROTHER, THE NATURALIST, SIR DAVID. BUT SIR RICHARD'S TALENT AND HIS PASSION FOR FILM-MAKING HAVE MADE HIM ONE OF CINEMA'S GREATS. TO WORK IN THE MOVIES, TO EXPRESS MY VIEWS AND MY HOPES AND MY ASPIRATIONS, IS HEAVEN ON EARTH FOR ME. AND I WOULD WANT TO BEGUN AND ON UNTIL I JUST WENT OFF AND DISAPPEARED.

>> Ifill: RICHARD ATTENBOROUGH WAS 90 YEARS OLD. ON WALL STREET TODAY, THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE GAINED 75 POINTS TO CLOSE NEAR 17,077. THE NASDAQ ROSE ALMOST 19 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 4,557. AND THE S-AND-P 500 ADDED NINE POINTS TO FINISH JUST SHORT OF 1,998.

>> Ifill: STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR: LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE POLICE KILLING OF MICHAEL BROWN; NAPA, CALIFORNIA ASSESSES THE DAMAGE AFTER A 6.0 MAGNITUDE EARTHQUAKE; WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS IF THE U.S. DECIDES TO TAKE ON THE ISLAMIC STATE GROUP? AWARDING COLLEGE DEGREES FOR COMPETENCY RATHER THAN CREDIT HOURS; AND AN IMMIGRATION LAWYER'S TAKE ON THE BORDER CRISIS.

>> Ifill: IT'S BEEN A LITTLE OVER TWO WEEKS SINCE MICHAEL BROWN WAS KILLED IN FERGUSON, MISSOURI. SINCE THEN, THE AREA HAS SEEN DAILY PROTESTS, BOTH PEACEFUL AND VIOLENT. TODAY THE TEENAGER WAS LAID TO REST.

>> Ifill: THE LINE STRETCHED WELL INTO THE STREET OUTSIDE FRIENDLY TEMPLE MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH IN ST. LOUIS, WHERE THOUSANDS TURNED OUT FOR THE FUNERAL OF 18-YEAR-OLD MICHAEL BROWN JUNIOR. MIXED IN THE CROWD WERE WELL- KNOWN FACES, FROM THE REVEREND JESSE JACKSON TO FILMMAKER SPIKE LEE, TO THE PARENTS OF TRAYVON MARTIN, WHOSE OWN TEENAGE SON WAS KILLED IN FLORIDA TWO YEARS AGO. LARGE PHOTOGRAPHS OF MICHAEL BROWN FLANKING THE CLOSED CASKET BEFORE AN OVERFLOW CONGREGATION. AS SHE ENTERED, BROWN'S MOTHER, LESLEY MCSPADDEN, STOOD THERE FOR LONG MINUTES, WEEPING. OTHER RELATIVES OFFERED REMEMBRANCES. HIS STEPMOTHER, CAL BROWN, SAID THE TEENAGER NICKNAMED "MIKE MIKE" BECAME HER BEST FRIEND.

>> MIKE MIKE IS AN AWESOME MAN. I HAVE TO SAY THAT BECAUSE I MET HIM THREE YEARS AGO AND HE WAS A BOY, BUT HE EVOLVED INTO A MAN. A GOOD MAN. AND HE JUST WANTED SO MUCH. HE WANTED TO GO TO COLLEGE. HE WANTED TO HAVE A FAMILY. HE WANTED TO BE A GOOD FATHER. BUT GOD CHOSE DIFFERENTLY AND I'M AT PEACE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE HE'S NOT A LOST SOUL. HIS DEATH IS NOT IN VAIN.

>> Ifill: A COUSIN, TY PRUITT, REINFORCED THE FAMILY'S CALL FOR CALM IN A COMMUNITY THAT WAS CONSUMED BY TEN DAYS OF UNREST AFTER THE KILLING.

>> WE'RE GOING TO HIT THE STREETS AGAIN AND YELL OUT FOR OUR FREEDOM AND OUR EQUALITY AND YELL OUT MIKE MIKE'S NAME AND IT'S GONNA SHAKE THE HEAVENS FROM THE THUNDER THAT WE RELEASE. BUT NOT TODAY, TODAY IS FOR PEACE. PEACE AND QUIET.

>> Ifill: BROWN'S FATHER, MICHAEL BROWN SR., DELIVERED A SIMILAR PLEA AT A RALLY YESTERDAY.

>> TOMORROW, ALL I WANT IS PEACE WHILE MY SON IS LAID TO REST.

>> Ifill: IN TODAY'S EULOGY, THE REVEREND AL SHARPTON CALLED FOR REFORMING THE NATION'S JUSTICE SYSTEM.

>> THE POLICIES OF THIS COUNTRY CANNOT GO UNCHALLENGED. WE CANNOT HAVE AGGRESSIVE POLICING OF LOW-LEVEL CRIMES AND CAN'T DEAL WITH THE HIGHER LEVEL. SOMETHING STRANGE THAT YOU GET ALL THESE GUNS INTO THE HOOD, BUT YOU RUN AROUND CHASING FOLKS SELLING LOOSE CIGARETTES AND WALKING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET. THERE'S SOMETHING CRAZY ABOUT THAT KIND OF POLICING.

>> Ifill: AFTER THE SERVICE, THE FUNERAL PROCESSION MADE IT'S WAY TO THE CEMETERY WHERE MANY HELD THEIR HANDS UP IN SILENT PROTEST AS IT PASSED. SOME NORMALCY RETURNED TO FERGUSON TODAY, AS MORE THAN 11,000 AREA STUDENTS RETURNED TO SCHOOL.

>> Ifill: FOR MORE ON WHERE THE DEBATE OVER CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND RACE GOES FROM HERE, WE TURN TO THREE PEOPLE ENGAGED IN IT. TRACIE KEESEE, CO-FOUNDER OF THE CENTER FOR POLICING EQUITY AT U.C.L.A. SHE'S A POLICE VETERAN WITH 25 YEARS OF SERVICE. POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR FREDRICK HARRIS OF COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY, WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE UNIVERSITY'S CENTER ON AFRICAN-AMERICAN POLITICS AND SOCIETY. AND THE REVEREND STARSKY WILSON, PASTOR OF SAINT JOHN'S UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST IN ST LOUIS. HE IS ALSO PRESIDENT AND C.E.O. OF DEACONESS FOUNDATION, A FAITH-BASED GRANT-MAKING ORGANIZATION FOR CHILDREN IN THE ST. LOUIS REGION. REVEREND WILSON, YOU WERE AT MICHAEL BROWN'S FUNERAL TODAY. DID IT SEEM TO YOU THAT THE COMMUNITY IS TAKING A DEEP BREATH?

>> THE COMMUNITY IS, INDEED, TAKING A DEEP BREATH. BUT WE ARE SURE THAT IT'S NOT FOR THE SAKE OF ULTIMATE RELIEF. IT IS NOT BECAUSE WE FEEL FINALLY RELIEVED IT IS FOR THE SAKE OF CATCHING OUR BREATH TO GIVE APPROPRIATE TIME FOR MOURNING, LAMENT AND GRIEF, FOR MICHAEL BROWN SENIOR AND THE FAMILY. BUT COMMITTING WITH THE FAMILY TO WORK TO DO THE LONG WORK TOWARD BUILDING FOR JUSTICE, BUILDING GOD'S LOVE IN THE COMMUNITY FOR THIS, BY SEEKING OUT AND REFORMING. THE RESPECTIVE SYSTEMS THAT REALLY CREATED THIS CHALLENGE, PARTICULARLY AS RELATES TO COMMUNITY POLICING AMONG AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN THESE KINDS OF COMMUNITIES LIKE FERGUSON, WITH GREAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN POPULATIONS BUT DISPARATE NUMBERS OF POLICE, DISPARATE NUMBERS IN CITY COUNCILS AND DISPARATE REFLECTIONS OF THAT REPRESENTATION IN GOVERNMENT.

>> Ifill: LET ME ASK TRACIE KEESEE TO PICK UP ON THAT. IS IT TOP-DOWN LEADERSHIP OR BOTTOM-UP, KIND OF AN ORGANIC MOVEMENT THAT IS NEEDED HERE TO MOVE US TO THE NEXT STEP?

>> YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY POLICING WAS ALWAYS ABOUT A BOTTOM-UP. AND THAT WAS THAT PARTNERSHIP WITH THE COMMUNITY. AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN NEVER BE LOST. AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THE ONE THING THAT MOVES US FORWARD. YOU ALWAYS HAVE A TOP DOWN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INTERNAL OR INSIDE THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF, ABOUT HOW OFFICERS ON THE STREET GET THEIR MANDATES. BUT THE ORIGINAL COMMUNITY POLICING IS ABOUT THAT ON THE GROUND UP PARTNERSHIP.

>> Ifill: LET ME ASK FREDRICK HARRIS, WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH A COUPLE OF WEEKS NOW OF GRIEF AND SHOCK AND REMORSE AND ACCUSATION, EVERYTHING YOU CAN NAME. HAS THAT IN A STRANGE WAY, HAS THIS TRAGEDY MAY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR DISCOURSE?

>> I THINK IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY, IT'S A TRAGEDY BUT IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRANSFORM A TRAGEDY INTO, I THINK, WHAT NEEDS TO BE REALLY BROAD-BASED SOCIAL CHANGE, CHANGE IN THE WAY THAT POLICING IS BEING DONE IN THE UNITED STATES. GWEN, SINCE LAST FALL THERE'S BEEN A SPATE OF INCIDENTS THAT I THINK HAVE REALLY CUMMULATED THE DISCONTENT THAT YOU SEE NOT ONLY IN FERGUSON BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY. THERE WAS A KID WHO, A COLLEGE KID IN CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA, WHO WAS SHOT WHILE HE WAS-- AFTER A CAR ACCIDENT TRYING TO GET HELP FROM THE POLICE. AND YOU HAD JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO THE CASE OF A MAN, A BLACK MAN BEING CHOKED TO DEATH WITH A CHOKE HOLD BY POLICE IN MARYLAND. SO I THINK-- ON STATEN ISLAND SO I THINK THESE CUM LATIF EFFECTS HAVE PUSHED PEOPLE TO REALLY SEE THIS NOT AS REALLY LOCAL, ISOLATED PROBLEM, BUT I WOULD SEE AS A CRISIS IN THE COUNTRY.

>> Ifill: WELL, LET ME ASK REVEREND WILSON THIS. HOW DIFFERENT IS THIS EPISODE FROM THE ONES HE NAMED, BUT ALSO FROM RODNEY KING OR EMMITT TILL OR EVEN MATTHEW SHEPHERD?

>> YEAH, I THINK THIS EPISODE IS MORE AKIN AND REALLY KIND OF CONNECTING TO DR. HARRIS'S PIECE FROM THE "WASHINGTON POST". THIS PIECE IS MUCH MORE AKIN TO EMMITT TILL IN THAT WE HAVE THE SAME ISSUE OF COMMUNITY TRAUMA THAT IS BROUGHT TO US BY THE VISUAL IMAGE OF A YOUNG PERSON IN TRAGEDY. WITH EMMITT TILL IT WAS THE OPEN CASKET, WITH MICHAEL BROWN, IT IS RATHER THE IMAGE OF HIS BODY LAYING OUT FOR FOUR HOURS ON THE GROUND, IN THE MIDST OF HIS NEIGHBORHOOD WITH TRAUMA FOR THE NEIGHBORS AND CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE OF THAT COMMUNITY. BUT THEN FOR THE MILLIONS OF US WHO HAVE SEEN IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, HAVE SEEN THAT IMAGE, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS NORMAL FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN TO SEE. SO WHEN THEY SEE THAT IMAGE, AND JUXTAPOSE THAT IMAGE, OF YOUNG PEOPLE AROUND MICHAEL BROWN'S AGE GOING OUT TO MAKE THEIR VOICES HEARD THROUGH PUBLIC PROTEST AND SEE THEM BEING RESPONDED TO BY A MILITARIZED POLICE FORCE, COMING UPON THEM, THEN IT DOES RAISE THE QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THIS IS THE AMERICA THAT WE DESIRE. AND SO I THINK THOSE TWO TRAUMATIC IMAGES JUXTAPOSE TO ONE ANOTHER, CALL INTO QUESTION OUR GREATEST BELIEFS ABOUT WHAT AMERICA IS, AND WHETHER THIS IS TRULY THE LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE. SO I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT REALLY GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO DR. HARRIS'S WORK TO BUILD TOWARD A MOVEMENT BASED UPON A PERSONAL CONNECTION WITH THE IMAGES THAT WE HAVE SEEN.

>> LET ME ASK TRACIE KEESEE ABOUT THAT. WE TALK ABOUT COMMUNITY TRAUMA. PART OF IT, AND WE SEE THIS IN A NEW PEW POLE TODAY THAT THERE IS WIDESPREAD DISTRUST IN THAT POLICE WILL HANDLE MANY OF THESE CASES FAIRLY, NOT ONLY AMONG BLACK AMERICA BUT WHITE AMERICA AND HISPANIC AMERICANS TOO, WHAT ARE THERE REPAIR FOR THIS BREACH.

>> THE REPAIR BEGINS NOT JUST ON THE GROUND WITH THE COMMUNITY BUT IT ALSO BEGINS ETERNALLY. AND I THINK AS THOSE GUESTS HAVE ELUDED TO, POLICING IS ONE PIECE OF THAT. I MEAN YOU HAVE SOCIAL INEQUALITY OF EDUCATIONAL ISSUES AS WELL. BUT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ITSELF, THE LEADERSHIP IN LAW ENFORCEMENT IS GOING TO HAVE TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE ON THIS AND BEGIN TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT WE CAN DO BETTER. AND WHAT TYPE OF SERVICE DO WE PROVIDE OUR COMMUNITIES OF COLOR. AND HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE CUSTOMERS. SO IT'S NOT ABOUT THIS ISOLATED CONVERSATION ABOUT TRUST AND TRANSPARENCY. BUT WHAT DO OUR COMMUNITIES EXPECT OF US. AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE YOU BEGIN. THAT'S GOING TO BE A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION TO HAVE. AND A LOT OF TIMES A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION TO LISTEN OOIRZ I WANT TO STAY WITH YOU ON THIS. PART OF THE CONVERSATION IS THAT THE DIFFICULT CONVERSATION IS OFTEN ABOUT POLICY. YOU CHANGE A LAW, YOU MAKE A LAW. THIS TIME IT'S ABOUT A CULTURE OF DISTRUST. THAT SEEMS LIKE IT'S MORE AMORPHOUS TO GET YOUR ANDS AROUND?

>> WELL, IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE TO GET YOUR ARMS AROUND. IT JUST DEPENDS HOW DEDICATED YOU ARE TO MAKING THE CHANGE. ONE OF THE THINGS WE CONTINUE TO HEAR IS THE DIVERSIFICATION OF THE ORGANIZATION, THAT IS ONE STEP, BUT THAT IS A SMALL STEP. ONCE YOU GET FOLKS THROUGH THE DOOR AND GET THEM OUT OF THE ACADEMY, YOU HAVE TO GET THEM, ONE, TO STAY. AND IF THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF IS NOT WELCOMING OF OFFICERS OF COLOR OR WOMEN OR TRANSGENDERED OR GBLT, WILL YOU STILL HAVE THE SAME HAD. SO THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS T IS JUST AS A MATTER OF FACT IF ARE YOU GOING TO BE DEDICATED TO IT AFTER THE CAMERAS ARE GONE.

>> FREDRICK HARRIS, MARTIN LUTHER KING WROTE, I BELIEVE THERE WAS A BOOK FROM CHAOS TO COMMUNITY WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE. WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION TODAY?

>> I THINK WHERE WE GO FROM HERE IS THAT WE NEED POLITICAL ORGANIZING. AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE I WORRY THAT ONCE THE MARCHING STOPS, YOU KNOW, ONCE THE CAMERAS LEAVE FERGUSON, THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL REALLY FORGET THIS TRAGEDY. AND SO ONE THING THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT FOR DR. KING AND OTHERS DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THERE WERE PEAKS, THERE WERE CHALLENGES. IT'S GOING TO TAKE AWHILE FOR THERE TO BE SUBSTANTIVE POLICY CHANGE. YOU KNOW, FROM '55 WHEN EMMITT TILL WAS MURDERED, IT TOOK A DECADE BEFORE WE GOT THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT AND THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT. SO WHAT I WOULD SAY IS ORGANIZING, BUILDING ALLIES AS THE POLL NUMBERS SUGGEST, THERE ARE FOLKS OUT THERE WHO ARE ALSO CONCERNED BEYOND THE BLACK COMMUNITIES ABOUT POLICING. SO THIS IS SOMETHING I THINK EFFECTS THE GAY AND LESBIAN COMMUNITY, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT AFFECTS THE PRO IMMIGRATION COMMUNITY, ISSUES AROUND POLICING. AND ALSO I THINK WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT THE BEST OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WHICH IS BRINGING THESE HUMAN-RIGHTS ABUSES TO AN INTERNATIONAL STAGE.

>> Ifill: REVEREND WILSON YOU APPEARED ON A PROGRAM ON LOCAL PBS STATION IN WHICH ONE OF YOUR FELLOW PASTORS SAID WHAT WE NEED NOW IS A NEW NORMAL. YOU NODDED YOUR HEAD. TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK THAT MEANS?

>> YEAH, THAT WAS MY GOOD FRIEND REVEREND TRACIE BLACKMAN. WHAT SHE SUGGESTED WAS THAT THE WAY WE'VE BEEN DOING BUSINESS, PARTICULARLY AND I THINK SHE SPECIFIED IN THE ST. LOUIS REGION, THE WAY WE'VE BEEN DOING BUSINESS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. THE RESPONSE OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN LEADERSHIP THAT HAS NOT BEEN UNIFIED BECAUSE IT IS NOT NETWORKED OR ORGANIZED, IS UNACCEPTED. THE FACT THAT YOUNG PEOPLE EXPRESSING THEIR VOICE AND FELT DISCONNECTED FROM THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN CLERICAL LEADERSHIP IS UNACCEPTABLE. AND THE FACT THAT WE CONTINUE TO HAVE POLICE WHO DO NOT RESPOND EVEN TO THE MAJORITY OF THEIR COMMUNITY IN WAYS THAT ARE CARING, THAT ILLUSTRATE THAT THEY ARE THERE TO SERVE AND PROTECT. IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. SO WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SOME SPECIFIC DECISIONS AND BEGIN TO MAKE SOME MOVES FROM HERE. OUR FOUNDATION HAS VERY SPECIFICALLY NOTED, WE SAW THE YOUTH ENERGY OUT THERE AND SAW THE DESIRE TO EXPRESS ITSELF. SO WE HAVE INVESTED IN YOUTH ORGANIZING. AND SO WHAT WE WANT TO PUT SOME FUNDING, AND WE ARE, HAVE ALREADY ALLOCATED SOME TO ORGANIZE SOME OF THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE DOWN THERE PROTESTING, TO HELP THEM LEARN TO MAP POWER AND CUT ISSUES, NO NETWORK AFRICAN-AMERICAN-- IN OUR COMMUNITY SO WE HAVE BETTER RESPONSES AND MORE COORDINATED RESPONSES IN THE FUTURE AND TO INVITE PROGRAMS LIKE MY BROTHER'S KEEPER. THAT THIS IS A NIGHTS PROGRAM THAT NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT INTO COMMUNITIES OF NEED LIKE OURS, AND LEVERAGED FOR MAXIMUM BENEFIT SO THAT WE CAN REALLY SEE THOSE OUTCOMES INVESTED INTO YOUNG MEN LIKE MIKE BROWN. THAT MUST BE OUR NEW NORMAL.

>> Ifill: REVEREND STARSKY WILSON OF ST. JOHNS UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST, FREDRICK HARRIS OF THE COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY. AND TRACIE KEESEE OF THE CENTER FOR POLICING EQUITY, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Ifill: BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS OF NORTHERN CALIFORNIA ASSESSED THE DAMAGE TODAY, AFTER THE STRONGEST EARTHQUAKE IN DECADES ROCKED THE AREA OVER THE WEEKEND, SOME ANALYSTS ESTIMATED ECONOMIC LOSSES COULD REACH $4 BILLION. NEWSHOUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT SPENCER MICHELS HAS OUR REPORT FROM NAPA VALLEY.

>> Reporter: THE PEOPLE OF NAPA PICKED UP WHERE THEY LEFT OFF LAST NIGHT, CLEANING UP THE MESS THE EARTHQUAKE LEFT BEHIND. CHUNKS OF BRICKS AND BROKEN GLASS WERE STREWN ACROSS THE STREETS. AS OF THIS MORNING, LOCAL OFFICIALS ESTIMATED AT LEAST 90 HOMES AND BUILDINGS INCLUDING THE HISTORIC COUNTY COURTHOUSE WERE DEEMED UNSAFE TO OCCUPY.

>> TONIGHT AFTER WE'VE LOOKED AT ALL OF THE PROPERTIES, ALL OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS WE'LL BE DOING IN THE NEXT DAY OR SO IS SITTING DOWN AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DOES THIS MEAN IN TERMS OF INFRASTRUCTURE IMPACT, PRIVATE, PUBLIC AS WELL AS ECONOMIC IMPACT.

>> Reporter: THE EARTHQUAKE, AT 6.0, STRUCK IN THE WEE HOURS OF SUNDAY, IN THE HEART OF NORTHERN CALIFORNIA'S WINE COUNTRY.

>> I'M STILL KIND OF CAUGHT UP IN BEING BACK AND HOW VIOLENT THE SHAKING WAS. IT'S JUST AMAZING. YOU DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN NAPA. YOU HEAR EVERYTHING IS IN SAN FRANCISCO, LOS ANGELES. FOR AN EPICENTER TO BE RIGHT HERE IN NAPA ITSELF IS KIND OF SHOCKING.

>> Reporter: THE SHOCK CAME AS THE REGION'S FAMED VINEYARDS WERE WELL INTO HARVESTING SEASON, IN AN INDUSTRY THAT GENERATES MORE THAN $13 BILLION A YEAR. THOUSANDS OF BOTTLES OF WINE WERE SHAKEN FROM THEIR SHELVES AND ONTO CELLAR FLOORS. IN SOME CASES, ENTIRE BARRELS TOPPLED OVER, SPILLING THEIR CONTENTS SOME VINEYARDS LOST POWER, DISRUPTING THE FERMENTATION PROCESS FOR THIS YEAR'S VINTAGE. AND INDIVIDUAL WINE BARS AND WINERIES REPORTED LOSSES RANGING FROM $15,000 TO $20,000 EACH.

>> Reporter: MADONNA ESTATES WAS ONE WINERY THAT SUFFERED SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE. WITHIN THERE'S NOT ENOUGH, AND IT MOVED, JUMPED AROUND, THEY ALL CAME TO THE POINT WHERE THEY JUMPED OFF THE END AND FELL DOWN. THE HARVEST IS GETTING READY TO START THIS WEEK. AND I'M DEALING WITH IN.

>> Reporter: THE TREMOR ALSO FORCED MANY WINERIES AND RESTAURANTS TO CLOSE, AT THE HEIGHT OF THE TOURISM SEASON.

>> IT WAS A MESS, YOU REALLY HAVE TO WALK OVER JUST TO GET TO THE MAIN DINING ROOM. SO WE PRETTY MUCH LOST, I WOULD SAY 80% OF OUR INVENTORY. AND OF COURSE WE LOST FOOD BECAUSE WE HAD NO POWER.

>> Reporter: THE NAPA EARTHQUAKE WAS THE STRONGEST IN CALIFORNIA SINCE THE 1989 LOMA PRIETA QUAKE THAT KILLED 62 PEOPLE AND WAS MEASURED AT 7.6, TIMES STRONGER THAN THIS ONE. THE LARGEST QUAKE IN THESE PARTS WAS IN 1906, A 7.8 THAT DESTROYED SAN FRANCISCO. THE NAPA QUAKE, WHILE NOT IN THAT CATEGORY, WAS A SHARP REMINDER THAT THE BAY AREA IS EARTHQUAKE COUNTRY. SEVERAL OF THE DAMAGED BUILDINGS IN DOWNTOWN NAPA HAD NOT BEEN RETROFITTED TO WITHSTAND EARTHQUAKES. A PROCESS WHICH, ACCORDING TO ARCHITECT ANTHONY VAN KRIEKEN, SAVED MANY OTHER BUILDINGS.

>> MOST OF THE ONES THAT WERE RETROFITTED ACTUALLY HELD UP VERY WELL. THEY DO DIFFERENT PROCESSES BUT IF YOU GO THE CHRIS CROSS AND THE HEAVY IRON AND ALL THOSE APPLICATIONS, THOSE SEEM TO HAVE HELD UP WELL. THERE ARE SEVERAL BUILDING RIGHT ON MAIN STREET THAT I COULD SHOW YOU THAT HELD UP PERFECTLY WITH NO DAMAGE AT ALL

>> Reporter: SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED TODAY AS CLASSROOMS WERE INSPECTED. POWER AND GAS WERE MOSTLY RESTORED TO THOUSANDS OF HOMES AND BUSINESSES THAT LOST SERVICE. AROUND 600 PROPERTIES WILL REMAIN WITHOUT WATER UNTIL LATER THIS WEEK. AND "QUEEN OF THE VALLEY" MEDICAL CENTER IN NAPA SAID IT TREATED TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHT PEOPLE HURT IN THE EARTHQUAKE, ONE PERSON REMAINS IN CRITICAL CONDITION.

>> Ifill: LAST WEEK'S EXECUTION- STYLE MURDER OF JOURNALIST JAMES FOLEY HAS INTENSIFIED THE DEBATE OVER HOW THE U.S. SHOULD HANDLE THE EXPANDING "ISLAMIC STATE" GROUP. OFFICIALS AT THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE PENTAGON HAVE SIGNALED THEY WILL SOON ACT AGAINST THE MILITANT GROUP SOON, PERHAPS STRIKING WITHIN SYRIA. JEFFREY BROWN TAKES A CLOSER LOOK AT THE CHOICES FACING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

>> Brown: U.S. JETS, FLYING OFF THE CARRIER GEORGE H.W. BUSH, KEPT UP AIR STRIKES AGAINST ISLAMIC STATE FIGHTERS IN IRAQ, OVER THE WEEKEND. THERE WAS ALSO GROWING TALK OF EXPANDING THE AIR CAMPAIGN ACROSS THE BORDER INTO SYRIA. ARMY GENERAL MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS, SAID LAST WEEK THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO DEFEAT THE MILITANT GROUP. BUT AT THE WHITE HOUSE, SPOKESMAN JOSH EARNEST WAS NON- COMMITTAL TODAY.

>> THE PRESIDENT THUS FAR HAS NOT MADE A DECISION TO ORDER ADDITIONAL MILITARY ACTION IN SYRIA.

>> Brown: ALSO TODAY, SYRIA'S FOREIGN MINISTER TODAY REJECTED ANY AIR STRIKES, UNLESS DAMASCUS IS CONSULTED. STILL, HE SAID SYRIA WELCOMES ALL HELP, DESPITE REPEATED U.S. CALLS FOR PRESIDENT BASHAR AL- ASSAD TO STEP DOWN.

>> ( translated ): WE ARE READY TO COOPERATE AND COORDINATE WITH REGIONAL COUNTRIES AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IN FIGHTING TERRORISM FOLLOWING THE RESOLUTIONS OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL. WE WELCOME EVERYBODY.

>> Brown: THE NEED FOR HELP WAS EVIDENT SUNDAY, AS ISLAMIC STATE FORCES CAPTURED THE LAST MAJOR MILITARY BASE IN NORTHEASTERN SYRIA. THEY CELEBRATED IN THE STREETS OF RAQQA, WITH VEHICLES HONKING HORNS AND SHOTS FIRED IN THE AIR. CALLS FOR U.S. ACTION TO EXTEND INTO SYRIA HAVE MOUNTED SINCE AMERICAN JOURNALIST JAMES FOLEY WAS BEHEADED BY "ISLAMIC STATE" CAPTORS. SUNDAY, ON N.B.C., THE BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S., PETER WESTMACOTT, SAID INVESTIGATORS ARE CLOSE TO IDENTIFYING THE BRITISH-ACCENTED MILITANT IN THE VIDEO WHICH FEATURED FOLEY'S DEATH. HE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED SOME 500 BRITONS HAVE JOINED THE "ISLAMIC STATE". THE CHAIR OF THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, REPUBLICAN MIKE ROGERS, WARNED THAT WESTERNERS IN THE GROUP POSE A MORTAL THREAT.

>> ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS IT'S GONE UNABATED FOR NEARLY TWO YEARS, AND THAT DRAWS PEOPLE FROM BRITAIN, TO ACROSS EUROPE, EVEN THE UNITED STATES TO GO AND JOIN THE FIGHT. THEY ARE ONE PLANE TICKET AWAY FROM U.S. SHORES, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE SO CONCERNED ABOUT IT.

>> Brown: MEANWHILE, THE U.N. HUMAN RIGHTS CHIEF, NAVI PILLAY, ACCUSED "ISLAMIC STATE" FORCES OF WIDESPREAD CRIMES IN IRAQ, INCLUDING SLAVERY, SEXUAL ABUSE, AND MASS EXECUTIONS OF HUNDREDS OF PRISONERS.

>> Brown: HOW GREAT A THREAT IS THE "ISLAMIC STATE" GROUP? AND WHAT SHOULD THE U.S. DO ABOUT IT? WE JOIN THE DEBATE, WITH RETIRED ARMY COLONEL PETER MANSOOR. HE WAS EXECUTIVE OFFICER TO GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS IN IRAQ DURING THE SURGE IN 2007 AND EIGHT. HE'S NOW AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MILITARY HISTORY AT THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY. AND STEPHEN WALT IS PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY. HE'S WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ABOUT SECURITY POLICY ISSUES. PETER MANSOOR, LET ME START WITH YOU. HOW DO YOU DEFINE THE THREAT AND HOW URGENT IS THE NEED TO ACT?

>> WELL, ISIS IS A GROUP THAT IS WELL-FUNDED, WELL ARMED, AND HATS THOUSANDS OF FIGHTERS UNDER ITS RANKS AND MORE JOINING IT EVERY DAY. IT'S A THREAT TO THE REGION. IT CAN DESTABILIZE THE MIDDLE EAST FROM WHICH WE GET MOST OF OUR OIL IN TERMS OF THE GLOBAL ECONOMY. AND IT CAN INJECT TERRORISM INTO EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES GIVEN THAT IT HAS HUNDREDS OF FIGHTERS IN ITS RANKS WHO HOLD WESTERN PASSPORTS. SO THIS IS A GROUP THAT IS A THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES AND THE GLOB AT-- GLOBAL COMMUNITY AND NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH.

>> Brown: STEPHEN WALT, HOW DO YOU DEFINE TO THAT? -- RESPOND TO THAT. HOW DO YOU DEFINE THE THREAT.

>> NO QUESTION ISIS IS A BUNCH OF VERY BAD GUYS BUT IT'S PRIMARILY A THREAT TO THE PEOPLE IN THE AREAS THEY CONTROL AND NOT A DIRECT THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES IT IT'S A PREDOMINANTLY SUNNI GROUP WHICH WILL NOT BE ABLE TO EXPAND INTO NONSUNNI AREAS. AND THE POTENTIAL TERRORIST THREAT THERE, I THINK, HAS BEEN GREATLY EXAGGERATED. THERE ARE LOTS OF GROUPS AROUND THE WORLD WHO WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO GO AFTER THE UNITED STATES. MOST OF THEM FAIL. AND, IN FACT, THE WAY TO DEAL WITH IT IS PRIMARILY WITH INTELLIGENCE AND COUNTERTERRORISM HERE AT HOME.

>> Brown: ALL RIGHT, SO PETER MANSOOR, WHAT EXACTLY WOULD YOU PRO POTE-- PROPOSE. ARE AIR STRIKES INTO SYRIA REQUIRED? ARE SPECIAL FORCES ON THE GROUND REQUIRED? SPELL IT OUT FOR US WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE.

>> IF THE GOAL IS TO DESTROY ISIS YOU HAVE TO DO IT ON BOTH SIDES OF WHAT IS NOW A NONEXISTENT INTERNATIONAL BORDER. BECAUSE OTHERWISE IF YOU JUST DEAL WITH THE GROUP IN IRAQ, IT WILL JUST MOVE BACK INTO SYRIA AND REMETASTASIZE. I BELIEVE WE NEED TO WAIT UNTIL THERE'S AN INCLUSIVE AND LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT IN BAGHDAD. BUT PROVIDED THAT HAPPENS UNDER PRIME MINISTER DESIGNATE AL-ABADI, THEN I THINK WE NEED TO PROVIDE ADVISORS AN TRAINERS TO REFORM AND RETRAIN THE IRAQI ARMEY AND KURDISH PESHMERGA, RAMP UP TO THE KURDISH FORCES IN THE NORTH. RAMP UP OUR AIR STRIKES AND PROVIDE MORE DRONE STRIKES AND AIRCRAFT, AND BASE THEM IN THE REGION SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE BASED ON SHIPS FLOATING OUT IN THE GULF. AND THEN I THINK, AND THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL POINT OF WHAT I HAVE TO SAY, WE NEED TO PROVIDE SPECIAL FORCES TO EMBED THEMSELVES WITH SUNNI TRIBES AND REKINDLE THE AWAKENING THAT DID SO MUCH TO DESTROY THE FORERUNNER TO ISIS, AL QAEDA IN IRAQ THERE 2006, 2007 AND 2008. AND THEY NEED TO DO THAT PROBABLY ON BOTH SIDES OF THE IRAQI SYRIAN BORDER.

>> Brown: STEPHEN WALT, YOU DIDN'T SEE THE SAME THREAT, SO I ASSUME YOU DON'T SEE THAT SAME KIND OF RAMP UP. WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE?

>> I THINK THAT FIRST OF ALL THE UNITED STATES SHOULD REMEMBER THAT WE HAVE SPENT THE LAST 15 YEARS TRYING TO USE MILITARY POWER INCLUDING MILITARY ASSISTANCE TO TRY AND ORGANIZE THE POLITICS OF THIS REGION. WE HAVE FAILED MISERABLY. WE HAVE A FAILED STATE IN IRAQ. WE HAVE A FAILED STATE IN LIBYA, AND WE SPENT $25 BILLION TRAINING THE IRAQI ARMY WHICH THEN SUBSEQUENTLYLY TURNED AND RAN WHEN CONFRONTED BY ISIS. SO I THINK TO BELIEVE THAT WE CAN GO IN AGAIN WITH AIR POWER, PRIMARILY, AND SOME SPECIAL FORCES AND ELIMINATE THIS PROBLEM IS FANSIFUL. THIS IS GOING TO BE ULTIMATELY A PROBLEM FOR LOCALS TO DEAL WITH, NOT FOR THE UNITED STATES TO TRY AND DEAL WITH. AND BECAUSE IT IS NOT A VITAL THREAT TO CORE AMERICAN SECURITY INTERESTS, IT'S ONE WE SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM.

>> Brown: WHAT ABOUT THOUGH, MR. WALT, THE ARGUMENT THAT IF THE U.S. DOESN'T DO SOMETHING NOW, IT MAY BE TOO LATE LATER ON IF YOU ARE'S WRONG?

>> WELL, AGAIN, WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE, THIS IS NOT THE THIRD REICH THIS IS NOT AN INCREDIBLY POWERFUL MOVEMENT. IT HAS MAYBE 20,000 FIGHTERS, NO AIR FORCE, NO NAVY. LIGHTLY ARMED INFANT REE THAT HAS BEEN ABLE TO WITHSTAND IN STATELESS AREA, AREAS THAT ARE STATELESS, IN PART, BECAUSE WE DESTROYED THE STATES THAT WERE GOVERNING THERE. AND THE IDEA WE WILL GO IN AGAIN WITH A FEW THOUSAND SPECIAL FORCES AN REORGANIZE THE POLITICS OF THAT REGION, I THINK, HAS BEEN TRIED AND FOUND WANTING IN THE PAST. AND IT WOULD BE FOUND WANTING AGAIN IF WE TRIED 2 AGAIN.

>> Brown: AND PETER MANSOOR, SPEAKING OF COMPLICATION, IN YOUR ARGUMENT SYRIA HAS WARNED AGAINST AIR STRIKES INTO ITS SPACE. WOULD YOUR-- WOULD A PUSH TOWARD GOING ACROSS THE BORDER NOT COMPLICATE THINGS EVEN MORE THERE?

>> WELL, IT'S A SIMPLE MILITARY MISSION OF DESTROYING AN ENEMY ARMED FORCE. AND WE SEND SYRIA A SIMPLE MESSAGE, STAY OUT OF OUR WAY OR WE WILL START BOMBING YOU AS WELL. AND I THINK BASHAR AL-ASSAD AND HIS FORCES WOULD BE HAPPY TO WATCH US BOMB ISIS WITH OR WITHOUT COORDINATION WITH THEM. I THINK THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROFESSOR WALT AND ME IS HE DOESN'T SEE ISIS AS A THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES. AND I SEE IT AS A DIRECT THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES. IT HAS AN IDEOLOGY THAT WILL EVENTUALLY LEAD IT TO ATTACK US.

>> Brown: MR. MANSOOR, EVEN IF IT IS A THREAT OR NOT TO THE UNITED STATES, ONE OF HIS ARGUMENTS AS I HEAR IT IS HISTORY DOES NOT BODE WELL. IT DOES NOT SHOW US THAT THE U.S. HAS THE KIND OF POWER, ABILITY, EFFICIENCY TO DO WHAT YOU THINK WE CAN DO.

>> WELL, I BEG TO DIFFER. I JUST FINISHED WRITING A BOOK ON THE SURGE. AND THERE 2007 AND 2008 WE DID TURN AROUND A WAR EFFORT THAT HAD NEARLY FAILED, AND HAD THAT COUNTRY ON THE ROAD TO STABILITY. UNFORTUNATELY, THROUGH POLITICAL MISSTEPS, MOST OF THEM BY PRIME MINISTER NOURI AL-MALIKI THAT VICTORY WAS THROWN AWAY. SO I DON'T SEE THE SAME MILITARY DYSFUNCTION AS PROFESSOR WALT. WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT WITHOUT U.S. HELP, IRAQI FORCES AND KURDISH FORCES CANNOT DEFEAT ISIS.

>> Brown: STEPHEN WALT?

>> I THINK FIRST OF ALL IF THE IRAQI FORCES AND KURDISH FORCES CAN'T DEFEAT THEM, THEN WE'RE TO THE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DEFEAT THEM OURSELVES. AND WE DISAGREE ON THE SUCCESS OF THE SURGE. THE SURGE WAS A TACTICAL SUCCESS BUT A STRATEGIC FAILURE DOES IT DID NOT PRODUCE THE POLITICAL RECONCILIATION THAT WAS A REQUIREMENT FOR STRATEGIC SUCCESS THERE. AND THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE THE MAGIC FORM LA FOR RECREATING POLITICAL ORDER IN SYRIA OR IN IRAQ. AND ULTIMATELY THAT'S GOING TO BE A TASK FOR THE RESIDENTS OF THOSE AREAS TO DO AND NOT EXPECT THE UNITED STATES TO DO IT FOR THEM.

>> Brown: ONE OTHER BRIEF ISSUE, PETERMAN SOOR WA, ABOUT THE ALLIES, SHOULD THE U.S. ACT ALONE IF IT DOES NOT HAVE THE SUPPORT OF OTHER ALLIES?

>> WE ACTUALLY DO HAVE THE SUPPORT OF A LOT OF NATIONS AROUND THE WORLD WHO HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR U.S. LEADERSHIP IN THIS CASE. EUROPE MEAN NATIONS WOULD LIKE TO SEE ISIS DESTROYED. THEY REALIZE THAT A LOT OF THEIR CITIZENS ARE IN ISIS RANKS, AND COULD BE A THREAT TO THEM AS WELL. SO WITH U.S. LEADERSHIP I BELIEVE THAT WE ACTUALLY WILL HAVE INTERNATIONAL LEGITIMACY FOR THIS MISSION UNLIKE THE WAR IN 2003.

>> AND A BRIEF LAST WORD FOR YOU STEPHEN WALT F THE U.S. HAS THAT KIND OF LEGITIMACY.

>> THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT ALMOST EVERYONE AROUND THE WORLD WOULD LIKE TO SEE ISIS WEAKENED BUT ULTIMATELY THAT WILL BE A TASK FOR THE PEOPLE MOSTLY THREATENED AND IT IS THE PEOPLE LIVING RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO ISIS, NOT THE UNITED STATES WHICH IS AN OCEAN AWAY.

>> STEPHEN WALT AND PETER MANSOOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE'LL CONTINUE THE DEBATE.

>> Ifill: WE TURN NOW TO A NEW SERIES WE'RE CALLING "RETHINKING COLLEGE." AS THE FALL SEMESTER BEGINS ON CAMPUSES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THERE ARE CLOUDS ON THE HORIZON. SKYROCKETING TUITION, CRIPPLING STUDENT DEBT, AND AN UNCERTAIN JOB MARKET HAVE LED MANY TO REEXAMINE THE VALUE OF TODAY'S COLLEGE DEGREE. OUR SERIES BEGINS WITH A LOOK AT A PRETTY RADICAL CHALLENGE TO THE TRADITIONAL COLLEGE EXPERIENCE. THIS ONE FEATURES NO CLASSROOMS OR PROFESSORS. HARI SREENIVASAN HAS THE STORY.

>> JUST GIVING YOU KIND OF A BROAD OVERVIEW.

>> Sreenivasan: FOR MORE THAN A CENTURY, HIGHER EDUCATION HAS RELIED ON THE CREDIT HOUR, STUDENTS EARN CREDIT FOR HOURS SPENT IN CLASS, IN TURN, CREDITS ADD UP TO A COLLEGE DEGREE.

>> LET ME START OUT WITH THE COMMON LAW DEFINITION.

>> Sreenivasan: AND WHILE THE CREDIT HOUR IS STILL THE MAINSTAY HERE AT SOUTHERN NEW HAMPSHIRE UNIVERSITY, A PRIVATE INSTITUTION OF 17,000 STUDENTS, THE SCHOOL HAS ALSO EMBARKED ON A MOVEMENT THAT QUESTIONS THE VERY VALUE OF THE COLLEGE CLASSROOM. PRESIDENT PAUL LEBLANC SAYS THE NATION INVESTS TOO MUCH IN THE IDEA OF THE CREDIT HOUR.

>> WE GIVE A HUNDRED AND FIFTY THREE BILLION DOLLARS OF FEDERAL FINANCIAL AID OUT EVERY YEAR BASED ON THE CREDIT HOUR. BUT THE CREDIT HOUR IS REALLY ONLY GOOD AT ONE THING, OR AT LEAST THE PRINCIPAL THING, WHICH IS TELLING PEOPLE HOW LONG YOU SAT, HOW LONG WERE YOU IN CLASS. IT'S NOT VERY GOOD AT TELLING PEOPLE WHAT YOU'VE ACTUALLY LEARNED.

>> Sreenivasan: UNDER LEBLANC'S LEADERSHIP, SOUTHERN NEW HAMPSHIRE UNIVERSITY HAS LAUNCHED "COLLEGE FOR AMERICA," AN ONLINE DEGREE PROGRAM WITH NO CLASSES, NO PROFESSORS, AND NO CREDIT HOURS.

>> RATHER THAN MEASURING HOW LONG SOMEONE SAT, THE OLD CREDIT HOUR CONSTRUCT, WE ACTUALLY HAVE A PROGRAM, THAT MEASURES WHAT YOU LEARN, AND WE THROW TIME SORT OF OUT THE WINDOW.

>> Sreenivasan: SO HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT THAN ONLINE UNIVERSITIES THAT HAVE EXISTED FOR YEARS NOW?

>> ALMOST ALL OF ONLINE EDUCATION TODAY IS STILL BASED ON THE CREDIT HOUR AND THE COURSE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY COURSES, AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY CREDIT HOURS, BUT WE HAVE A HUNDRED AND TWENTY COMPETENCIES, AND YOU CAN MASTER THOSE AS FAST AS YOU LIKE, OR AS SLOW, THE THING THAT WE DON'T CARE VERY MUCH ABOUT IS TIME. AND THAT IS SUCH A FUNDAMENTAL REVERSAL OF THE BASIC STRUCTURE OF HIGHER EDUCATION.

>> Sreenivasan: LAST YEAR, PRESIDENT OBAMA CITED THE NEW PROGRAM AS AN INNOVATIVE WAY TO MAKE COLLEGE MORE AFFORDABLE.

>> SOUTHERN NEW HAMPSHIRE UNIVERSITY GIVES CREDIT TO STUDENTS BASED ON HOW WELL THEY MASTER THE MATERIAL, NOT JUST ON HOW MANY HOURS THEY SPENT IN THE CLASSROOM, THE IDEA BEING, IF YOU CAN LEARN THE MATERIAL FASTER, AND FINISH FASTER, YOU PAY LESS, AND YOU SAVE MONEY.

>> Sreenivasan: AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE AT COLLEGE FOR AMERICA COSTS $5,000, A BACHELOR'S $10,000. IN ITS FIRST YEAR, THE SCHOOL HAD 600 STUDENTS SPREAD OUT OVER 39 STATES. STUDENTS LIKE SUE SHIPKA, A WIDOWER FROM BURLINGTON MASSACHUSETTS WHO HAD TRIED TO EARN A DEGREE ONCE BEFORE, WHILE RAISING HER THREE CHILDREN.

>> I'M SITTING IN CLASS AND I'M THINKING OF MY KIDS AT HOME WITH A BABYSITTER, I'M NOT THERE, AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT I HAVE TO DO, AND I COULD BE WORKING OVERTIME TO PAY THE BILLS, OR, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SO MANY OTHER THINGS. SO MY MIND WAS PRE-OCCUPIED, I WASN'T IN CLASS, SO IT WASN'T REALLY HELPFUL.

>> Sreenivasan: A LICENSED NURSE PRACTITIONER, SHIPKA HOPES AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE WILL LEAD TO A JOB IN HOSPITAL MANAGEMENT WITH A HIGHER SALARY AND FEWER HOURS.

>> IT WILL FREE UP SOME TIME, SO I CAN SPEND MORE TIME WITH THE KIDS.

>> THIS MODEL SAYS LOOK, IF YOU'VE BEEN WORKING FOR TWENTY YEARS AND YOU LOOK AT THE MATH COMPETENCIES AND YOU SAY I GOT THESE COLD, WHY WOULD WE MAKE YOU SIT THROUGH SIXTEEN WEEKS OF CLASS TIME, GO AHEAD, DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU ACTUALLY IN FACT HAVE MASTERED THESE, AND THEN MOVE ON."

>> Sreenivasan: BUT IF COLLEGE FOR AMERICA HAS NO COURSES AND NO PROFESSORS, HOW DO IT'S STUDENTS QUALIFY FOR A DEGREE? THAT'S WHERE CHIEF ACADEMIC OFFICER CATHRAEL KAZIN COMES IN.

>> I THINK THAT FITS NICELY WITH OUR COMPETENCIES ON QUALITY MANAGEMENT.

>> Sreenivasan: KAZIN OVERSEES A TEAM OF SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS, ACADEMICS, AND INDUSTRY LEADERS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR DEGREE CONTENT.

>> WHAT WE DID WAS TO TAKE A MODEL DEGREE, AND THEN KIND OF BREAK IT APART. SO WE IDENTIFIED THE KEY COMPETENCIES THAT A STUDENT SHOULD DEVELOP IN THE COURSE OF EARNING THAT DEGREE.

>> Sreenivasan: STUDENTS ARE GIVEN A SERIES OF PROJECTS TO COMPLETE ON THEIR OWN TIME. THE PROJECTS ARE EVALUATED BY EXPERTS, AN APPROACH CALLED DIRECT ASSESSMENT.

>> THE PROJECTS ARE ORGANIZED AROUND CERTAIN THEMES, EACH PROJECT IS ASSOCIATED WITH A CERTAIN NUMBER OF COMPETENCIES. SO, FOR INSTANCE, YOU MIGHT HAVE COMPETENCIES THAT INVOLVE CRITICAL THINKING, COMMUNICATION SKILLS, QUANTITATIVE REASONING, YOU WOULD DEMONSTRATE THOSE BY DOING A BUSINESS MEMO, FOR INSTANCE, WITH A SPREADSHEET THAT ATTACKS A PARTICULAR BUSINESS PROBLEM. YOU MIGHT CURATE A VIRTUAL MUSEUM EXHIBIT, SO THAT YOU WOULD BE SHOWING PEOPLE HOW YOU LOOK AT ART, RIGHT. SO THEY'RE ALL VERY, VERY CAREFULLY CRAFTED.

>> Sreenivasan: BUT AWARDING COMPETENCY-BASED CREDITS HAS GENERATED SOME SKEPTICISM AMONG FACULTY AT OTHER INSTITUTIONS.

>> THE PURPOSE OF A COLLEGE EDUCATION IS ACTUALLY TO PRODUCE INSIGHT, NOT COMPETENCY.

>> Sreenivasan: ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR JOHANN NEEM, FROM WESTERN WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY, SAYS COLLEGE CLASSROOMS FOSTER MUCH MORE THAN COMPETENCY.

>> THE REALITY IS SEAT TIME IS A BAD WAY OF THINKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN A CLASSROOM. IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT ACTIVELY ENGAGING WITH MATERIAL. IT'S THINKING TIME, THAT'S WHEN BRAINS ARE ENGAGED, THAT'S WHEN MINDS ARE THINKING, THAT'S WHEN PEOPLE ARE TALKING TO PEOPLE AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT, ULTIMATELY.

>> Sreenivasan: FOR NOW, COLLEGE FOR AMERICA TARGETS ADULTS LIKE SUE SHIPKA. WE'VE GOT A HUGE CRISIS IN THIS COUNTRY IN PREPARING OUR WORKFORCE AND THE COLLEGE OF AMERICA IS REALLY DESIGNED TO SERVE THOSE WORKING ADULTS.

>> THE COLLEGE HAS PARTNER

>> Sreenivasan: THE COLLEGE HAS PARTNERED WITH MORE THAN FIFTY COMPANIES THAT SPONSOR EMPLOYEES WHO ARE INTERESTED IN PURSUING A DEGREE. SUE SHIPKA'S EMPLOYER, PARTNERS HEALTHCARE OF MASSACHUSETTS, IS PAYING HALF OF HER $5,000 TUITION. BUT LEBLANC SEES A MUCH BIGGER ROLE FOR COMPETENCY BASED EDUCATION. HE CURRENTLY LEADS A GROUP OF TWENTY COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES THAT DISCUSS COMPETENCY BASED BEST PRACTICES. THE GROUP WAS RECENTLY FUNDED BY THE LUMINA FOUNDATION, WHICH ALSO FUNDS THE NEWSHOUR.

>> Sreenivasan: THIS IS A FAIRLY DISRUPTIVE IDEA. DOES HIGHER EDUCATION NEED THIS DISRUPTION?

>> I THINK COMPETENCY-BASED EDUCATION LOOMS LARGE AS A DISRUPTIVE FORCE IN THE HIGHER EDUCATION, BECAUSE WHAT IT ALLOWS YOU TO DO IS WHEN YOU REVERSE THAT TIME IS FIXED, LEARNING IS VARIABLE KERNEL, AND YOU START TO UNBUNDLE ALL OF WHAT GOES INTO LEARNING PEOPLE. YOU CAN START TO THINK ABOUT VERY NEW BUSINESS MODELS, DIFFERENT WAYS TO BRING LEARNING TO PEOPLE, AND THAT'S VERY POWERFUL.

>> Sreenivasan: THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION HAS WEIGHED IN AND APPROVED THE USE OF FEDERAL AID FOR STUDENTS ATTENDING COLLEGE OF AMERICAN. THE DEPARTMENT IS CURRENTLY EVALUATING APPLICATIONS FROM SEVERAL MORE INSTITUTIONS.

>> Ifill: WE CONTINUE OUR "RETHINKING COLLEGE" SERIES TOMORROW WHEN HARI LOOKS AT THE TRILLION DOLLAR BURDEN OF STUDENT LOANS. ONLINE, WE LOOK AT THE CHANGING FACE OF THE TYPICAL COLLEGE FRESHMAN. NO LONGER JUST FRESH OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, THEY'RE OLDER AND JUGGLING JOBS AND FAMILIES.

>> Ifill: A GROUP OF LAWYERS IS CHARGING IMMIGRATION OFFICIALS WITH VIOLATING THE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS OF DETAINEES HELD AT A NEW MEXICO DETENTION CENTER. THEY FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FRIDAY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT KATHLEEN MCCLEERY TALKED WITH ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS OFFERING FREE LEGAL SERVICES AT THE FACILITY BEFORE THE SUIT WAS FILED. IT'S PART OF OUR SERIES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH THOSE ON THE FRONTLINES OF THE IMMIGRATION CRISIS.

>> IN IS THE THIRD TIME IN LESS THAN A MONTH THAT LAURA LICHTER HAS DRIVEN NEARLY 550 MILES FROM HER HOME IN DENVER TO ARTESIA IN SOUTHEASTERN, NEW MEXICO. SHE COMES AT HER OWN EXPENSE AND A HOTEL STAY IN THIS OIL TOWN ISN'T CHEAP, UPWARDS OF $150 A NIGHT. GAS AND MEALS ALL ADD UP. PLUS THE 47-YEAR-OLD LAWYER HAS LEFT BEHIND AN IMMIGRATION PRACTICE IN COLORADO. WHERE AN HOUR OF HER TIME CAN COST $300 OR MORE. SHE IS THE IMMEDIATE PAST PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN IMMIGRATION LAWYERS ASSOCIATION. LICHTER SHOWS UP AT THE FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT TRAINING CENTER AT 7 O COLLECT A.M., READY TO MEET WITH CLIENTS SHE BARELY KNOWS AND WHOM SHE CHARGES. THERE ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN WHO TRIED TO OWNER THE U.S. ILLEGALLY, WERE CAPTURED AT THE BORDER AND SENT HERE. MOST ARE MAKING CLAIMS OF ASYLUM. WHEN IN ARTESIA LICHTER WORKS A 15 HOUR DAY, CULMINATING WITH AN EVENING SESSION AT A LOCAL CHURCH WITH A PRO BONO ATTORNEYS SHARE STORIES.

>> WE CAUGHT UP WITH HER DURING AN UNUSUAL MIDDAY BREAK. AND BEGAN BY TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN AN IMMIGRANT SAYS SHE'S AFRAID TO BE SENT HOME.

>> WELL, IDEALLY THIS PERSON IS TELLING THE GOVERNMENT AT THE MOMENT THEY HAVE BEEN ARRESTED THAT THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A FEAR OF BEING SENT BACK HOME. AND IF THEY TELL THE GOVERNMENT THAT THEY'RE AFRAID TO GO BACK HOME, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE REFERRED FOR AN INTERVIEW ON WHAT'S CALLED AN ASYLUM CLAIM. THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL THAT REFEWS THIS CASE IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT THAT PERSON ACTUALLY HAS A REASONABLE POSSIBILITY OF BEING ABLE TO PROVE A CASE.

>> SO WHAT IS THAT REASONABLE BASIS FOR ASYLUM?

>> ASYLUM APP BECOME ABLE TO QUALIFY FOR ASYLUM MEANS THE PERSON HAS TO PROVE TO THE SATISFACTION OF THE GOVERNMENT THAT THEY HAVE A WELL-FOUNDED FEAR OF PERSECUTION ON ACCOUNT OF ONE OF FIVE BASES. THEY HAVE TO SHOW A CONNECTION BETWEEN THE HARM THAT THEY'RE AFRAID OF, AND THE REASON WHY SOMEONE IS TRYING TO HARM THEM. AND THAT CAN BE ANYTHING FROM THEIR RELIGION, THEIR RACE, NATIONALITY, POLITICS OR WHAT WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF HERE IS A PARTICULAR SOCIAL GROUP. AND A SOCIAL GROUP IS DEFINED AS SOMETHING THAT IS AN IMMUTABLE CHARACTERISTIC, THE TYPE OF THING ABOUT YOURSELF THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T OR SHOULDN'T HAVE TO CHANGE. SO FOR EXAMPLE, YOUR AGAINER MIGHT BE PART OF THE SOCIAL GROUP. YOUR EXPERIENCES. BEING FORCED INTO RECRUITMENT BY A GANG. HAVING A GANG MEMBER TELL YOU AS A 14-YEAR-OLD GIRL THAT NOW YOU'RE GOING TO BE THE GIRLFRIEND OF THIS INDIVIDUAL WHO IS IN THE GANG. U.S. OFFICIALS ARE SAYING THAT A LOT OF THESE WOMEN AND CHILDREN ARE ECONOMIC MIGRANTS. OR THEY'VE COME HERE BECAUSE THEY THINK THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE SENT HOME.

>> I FIND THIS LUDICRIS, SCHRUTLY LUDICROUS THERE IS A BIAS AGAINST THESE WOMEN THAT THE PEOPLE ENTERING ON THE SOUTHERN BOARDER IN THIS HUMANITARIAN CRIES RIS ALL ECONOMIC MY GRANTS. THAT THEY'RE HERE BECAUSE THEY WANT TO WORK, NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM SOMETHING. AND NOTHING COULD BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH. IT IS SO BIZARRE TO SEE A GOVERNMENT ATTORNEY ARGUING THAT THE YOUNG MOTHER NEXT TO YOU AND HERSELF EN-YEAR-OLD AND 3 YEAR OLD ARE A NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT. BECAUSE SOMEHOW THE GOVERNMENT THINKS THAT IF ANY ONE OF THESE WOMEN ESCAPE FROM THIS INSTITUTION, BY BEING ABLE TO PAY A REASONABLE BOND, THAT SOMEHOW THAT MEANS THAT MORE PEOPLE WILL COME.

>> IS THERE SOMETHING DIFFERENT HAPPENING HERE IN TERMS OF THE SPEED OF THE PROCESS.

>> IF YOU ARE'S AN IMMIGRATION LAWYER THIS IS KIND OF LIKE WATCHING HURRICANE KATRINA HAPPEN. I HAVE NEVER SEEN A PROCESS WHERE THE GOVERNMENT WAS SO HELD-BENT ON MOVING PEOPLE THROUGH A PROCESS, JUST COMPLETELY PRO FORMA LIKE A MATTER OF CHECKING BOXES WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT NOBODY HERE HAS A REAL CASE. AND THAT WE JUST NEED TO RUN THEM THROUGH. IT IS, I RUN OUT OF WORDS TO DESCRIBE HOW FRUSTRATING, MADDENING, KAFKA ESQ, UNFAIR, IRRATIONAL SOME OF THE PROCEDURES HAVE BEEN THAT WE'VE SEEN. WE HAVE SEEN CASES THAT HAVE BEEN PUSHED THROUGH THIS PROCESS SO FAST, THAT THERE LITERALLY COULD NOT HAVE BEEN ANY MEANINGFUL OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PERSON TO BE HEARD. THE GOVERNMENT SAYS LOOK, WE'RE PROTECTING RIGHTS, THESE WOMEN HAVE ACCESS TO COUNSEL-- COUNSEL, WHAT'S YOUR VIEW ON THATNESS.

>> WHEN THESE WOMEN FIRST GO IN FRONT OF AN ASYLUM OFFICER, THE GOVERNMENT WILL HAND THEM A SHEET OF PAPER THAT TELLS THEM HOW TO FIND FREE LEGAL SERVICES. WE'RE IN ARTESIA NEW MEXICO B THREE AND A HALF HOURS FROM EL PASO AND ABOUT THE SAME DISTANCE FROM ALBUQUERQUE. THERE ARE NO LEGAL SERVICES PROVIDERS IN THIS ENTIRE STATE THAT ARE FUNDED TO DO REPRESENTATION FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE IN DETENTION. THE LEGAL SERVICES LIST THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS PROVIDING TO THESE INDIVIDUALS HAS THE NAMES OF THREE ORGANIZATIONS OUT OF EL PASO, TEXAS, NONE OF WHICH SET UP OR FUNDED TO ACTUALLY DO DIRECT REPRESENTATION.

>> SO WHAT IS IT THAT YOU'VE DONE. THE FIRST THING WE RECOGNIZE IS THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THEIR RIGHTS. THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THEY COULD ASK FOR TIME TO TRY TO FIND AN ATTORNEY. THEY WERE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT IF THEY TRIED TO DELAY THEIR CASE, THAT THE CASE WOULD JUST KIND OF GO ON WITHOUT THEM. THEY WERE TOLD THAT THEY WOULD JUST GET DEPORTED IF THEY DIDN'T SHOW UP TO A HEARING. THERE WAS A LOT OF MISINFORMATION.

>> THIS IS PROBABLY THE ONE THING I AM MOST PROUD OF IN MY LEGAL CAREER. THIS WAS A NEAT LITTLE VERY SUBVERSIVE TOOL. AND THESE DREAM SHEETS BASICALLY SAY KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. IMMIGRATION CASES ARE COMPLEX. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO A LAWYER. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO ASK FOR TIME TO TALK TO A LAWYER. NO ONE CAN DEPORT YOU WITHOUT YOU HAVING AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT YOUR CASE. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THIS IS MY LITTLE PERSONAL HAMMER. WE GAVE THEM A TOOL, WE GAVE THEM SOMETHING THAT THEY COULD USE TO HAVE A VOICE. BECAUSE ON THE REVERSE SIDE OF THIS FORM IT SAYS, I WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE MY CASE SO I MAY SEEK LEGAL HELP. AND IT DOESN'T SOUND REALLY DRAMATIC AND YOU MIGHT WONDER WHY I'M GETTING ALL CHOKED UP ABOUT THIS. BUT THIS CHANGED EVERYTHING. WHEN WE PRESENTED THESE, THEY FLEW AROUND THE DETENTION CENTER. AND EVER SINCE WE DID THAT, PEOPLE REALIZED THAT THERE WERE LAWYERS HERE, AND THEY CARED ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON. AND THEY WERE GOING TO HELP THESE WOMEN.

>> FINAL QUESTION, STRESSFUL, LONG HOURS, EXPENSIVE. WHY DO YOU DO IT?

>> I HAVE NEVER FELT MORE PRESSURED IN MY LIFE THAT ON MY WORK, WHAT I AM DOING, PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE DEPENDING. BUT I HAVE ALSO NEVER FELT MORE ENERGIZED, AND MORE REWARDED BY WHAT I HAVE EVER BEEN DOING. THIS IS THE HIGHEST AND BEST USE I HAVE EVER SEEN FOR MY LITTLE PIECE OF PAPER LAW LICENCE. AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT ALMOST TO A SINGLE PERSON, EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT WE HAVE HAD THAT HAS COME DOWN AND VOLUNTEERED, AND THESE ARE LAWYERS WHO HAVE DROPPED EVERYTHING, THEY'RE ON THEIR OWN DIME, THEY HAVE ABANDONED THEIR PRACTICE. YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING, TO COME DOWN HERE AND DO THIS. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS BEEN DOWN HERE HAS SAID I'M COMING BACK. I'M COMING BACK.

>> Ifill: LAURA LICHTER PLANS TO RETURN TO ARTESIA IN SEPTEMBER. FOR THE RECORD, WE HAVE ASKED FOR AN INTERVIEW WITH AN OFFICIAL IN THE IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT SERVICE. ONLINE, YOU CAN SEE MORE OF THE INTERVIEW WITH LICHTER, WHERE SHE DESCRIBES CONDITIONS INSIDE THE DETENTION CENTER. PLUS, KATHLEEN'S REPORTER'S NOTEBOOK ABOUT ANOTHER DISPUTE THERE, OVER CRAYONS FOR CHILDREN. WE'LL CONTINUE OUR SERIES OF CONVERSATIONS ON THIS ISSUE TOMORROW, WHEN WE TALK WITH AN ARIZONA RANCHER/VETERINARIAN WHO WORKS ALL ALONG THE BORDER.

>> Ifill: AGAIN, THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS OF THE DAY. THE FUNERAL OF MICHAEL BROWN ECHOED WITH CALLS FOR JUSTICE, IN A SERVICE ATTENDED BY THOUSANDS IN ST. LOUIS. THE BLACK TEENAGER WAS SHOT AND KILLED AUGUST 9 BY A WHITE POLICEMAN. AND AT LEAST 58 PEOPLE DIED IN A WAVE OF ATTACKS ACROSS IRAQ. ON THE NEWSHOUR ONLINE RIGHT NOW, AS STUDENTS HEAD BACK TO SCHOOL THIS WEEK, THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS HAS A RECOMMENDATION FOR MIDDLE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPALS: "LET THEM SLEEP." RESEARCH SHOWS THAT ADOLESCENTS NEED 8.5 TO 9.5 HOURS OF SLEEP. BUT BUSY SCHEDULES AND CHANGES IN A TEEN'S SLEEP CYCLE OFTEN DON'T ALLOW FOR THEM TO GET TO BED AT A REASONABLE HOUR. SO THE DOCTORS RECOMMEND DELAYING THE START OF THE SCHOOL DAY. YOU CAN READ MORE ABOUT THEIR ADVICE, ON THE RUNDOWN. ALL THAT AND MORE IS ON OUR WEB SITE, newshour.pbs.org. AND THAT'S THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT. ON TUESDAY, WE'LL HAVE REPORT FROM MARGARET WARNER IN IRAQ. I'M GWEN IFILL, WE'LL SEE YOU ON-LINE AND AGAIN HERE TOMORROW EVENING. FOR ALL OF US HERE AT THE PBS NEWSHOUR, THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

>> I'VE BEEN AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO RECOGNIZE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT THERE OWNING IT. THE ONES GETTING INVOLVED, STAYING ENGAGED. THEY ARE NOT AFRAID TO QUESTION THE PATH THEY'RE ON. BECAUSE THE ONE QUESTION THEY NEVER WANT TO ASK IS, "HOW DID I END UP HERE?" I STARTED SCHWAB WITH THOSE PEOPLE. PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THEIR INVESTMENTS, LIKE THEY DO IN EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THEIR LIVES.

>> AND BY THE ALFRED P. SLOAN FOUNDATION. SUPPORTING SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, AND IMPROVED ECONOMIC PERFORMANCE AND FINANCIAL LITERACY IN THE 21ST CENTURY.

>> AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND...

>> THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU. Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org  ♪

>> THIS IS "BBC WORLD NEWS."

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>> FOR NEARLY YE