PBS NewsHour; August 23, 2017 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT

Captioning sponsored by NEWSHOUR PRODUCTIONS, LLC

>> Woodruff: GOOD EVENING, I'M JUDY WOODRUFF. ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT...

>> THE ONLY PEOPLE GIVING A PLATFORM TO THESE HATE GROUPS IS THE MEDIA ITSELF, AND THE FAKE NEWS.

>> Woodruff: ...PRESIDENT TRUMP SOUNDS OFF. AT A RAUCOUS RALLY, MR. TRUMP DEFENDS HIS CHARLOTTESVILLE RESPONSE, AND AIMS A BLISTERING BROADSIDE AT THE NEWS MEDIA AND EVEN FELLOW REPUBLICANS. THEN, A SPOTLIGHT ON WAR GAMES-- THE U.S. MILITARY'S ANNUAL DRILLS WITH SOUTH KOREA BEGIN AMID HEIGHTENED TENSIONS WITH THE NORTH. AND, WE LISTEN IN AS BRITISH ROCK STAR, BILLY BRAGG, EXPLORES HOW A LITTLE KNOWN MUSICAL GENRE, CALLED SKIFFLE, BROUGHT US BANDS LIKE THE BEATLES.

>> FROM JANUARY 1964 TO DECEMBER 1965 THERE'S A BRITISH GROUP AT NUMBER ONE IN THE AMERICAN CHARTS FOR 52 WEEKS OUT OF 104. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM BEGINS AS A SKIFFLE GROUP.

>> Woodruff: ALL THAT AND MORE ON TONIGHT'S PBS NEWSHOUR.

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>> Woodruff: FROM THE PRESIDENT TODAY, A RETURN TO MEASURED TONES, AND A MESSAGE OF UNITY. THIS, ONLY HOURS AFTER HE SOUNDED OFF IN A FULL-THROATED DENUNCIATION OF THOSE HE SEES AS NOT SHARING HIS VIEWS. JOHN YANG BEGINS OUR COVERAGE.

>> Yang: ADDRESSING THE AMERICAN LEGION NATIONAL CONVENTION TODAY IN RENO, NEVADA, PRESIDENT TRUMP LARGELY STAYED ON MESSAGE.

>> IT IS TIME TO HEAL THE WOUNDS THAT HAVE DIVIDED US AND TO SEEK A NEW UNITY BASED ON THE COMMON VALUES THAT UNITE US. WE ARE ONE PEOPLE, WITH ONE HOME AND ONE FLAG.

>> WHAT A CROWD.

>> Yang: BUT AT A RALLY ORGANIZED AND PAID FOR BY HIS RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN IN PHOENIX TUESDAY NIGHT, FOR 77 MINUTES IT WAS MR. TRUMP UNSCRIPTED AND UNFILTERED. HE MOCKED CRITICS OF HIS EVOLVING REACTION TO THE VIOLENCE IN CHARLOTTESVILLE AND DEFENDED HIS WORDS.

>> HE DIDN'T SAY IT FAST ENOUGH. HE DIDN'T DO IT ON TIME. WHY DID IT TAKE A DAY? HE MUST BE A RACIST. IT TOOK A DAY. I HIT 'EM WITH NEO-NAZI. I HIT 'EM WITH EVERYTHING. I GOT THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS, THE NEO-NAZI. I GOT THEM ALL IN THERE, LET'S SAY. K.K.K., WE HAVE K.K.K. I GOT THEM ALL.

>> Yang: BUT MR. TRUMP DID NOT MENTION WHAT DREW CRITICS' IRE-- HIS PREVIOUS REMARKS EQUATING HATE GROUPS AND THOSE PROTESTING THEM.

>> I THINK THERE'S BLAME ON BOTH SIDES. AND I HAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY DOUBT ABOUT IT EITHER. YOU ALSO HAD PEOPLE THAT WERE VERY FINE PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES.

>> Yang: AS THE PRESIDENT SPOKE LAST NIGHT, A LEADER OF THE WHITE SEPARATIST MOVEMENT, WHICH CALLS ITSELF "THE ALT-RIGHT," TWEETED: "TRUMP HAS NEVER DENOUNCED THE ALT-RIGHT. NOR WILL HE." BEFORE THE SPEECH, MR. TRUMP MET AFTER MEETING WITH BORDER PATROL OFFICERS ALONG THE MEXICAN BORDER, AND MR. TRUMP LATER DECLARED HE WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO ACHIEVE A SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN PROMISE, EVEN SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT.

>> AND WE ARE BUILDING A WALL ON THE SOUTHERN BORDER, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

>> BUILD THAT WALL! BUILD THAT WALL!

>> BUILD THAT WALL! NOW, THE OBSTRUCTIONIST DEMOCRATS WOULD LIKE US NOT TO DO IT. BUT BELIEVE ME, IF WE HAVE TO CLOSE DOWN OUR GOVERNMENT, WE'RE BUILDING THAT WALL.

>> Yang: TODAY, HOUSE DEMOCRATIC LEADER NANCY PELOSI ACCUSED THE

>> HAVING A SHUTDOWN? I DON'T THINK IT'S IN OUR INTEREST TO DO SO. I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE TWO.

>> DEMOCRATIC LEADER NANCY PELOSI ACCUSED THE PRESIDENT OF THREATENING TO CAUSE CHAOS IN THE LEAFS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS SHE SAID "DEMOCRATS WILL STAND FAST AGAINST THE IMMORAL, INEFFECTIVE BORDER WALL." THE PRESIDENT ALSO SAID TALKS ON RENEGOTIATING NAFTA, WHICH BEGAN JUST LAST WEEK, ARE LIKELY HEADED FOR FAILURE.

>> PERSONALLY, I DON'T THINK WE CAN MAKE A DEAL, BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN SO BADLY TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. SO I THINK WE'LL END UP PROBABLY TERMINATING NAFTA AT SOME POINT, OKAY? PROBABLY.

>> Yang: AND MR. TRUMP ELECTRIFIED THE CROWD BY HINTING AT A PRESIDENTIAL PARDON FOR FORMER LOCAL SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO. HE'S AWAITING SENTENCING FOR DEFYING A FEDERAL COURT ORDER TO STOP DETAINING SUSPECTED UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS. HE FACES UP TO SIX MONTHS IN JAIL.

>> SO, WAS SHERIFF JOE CONVICTED FOR DOING HIS JOB? THAT'S WHY... ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) I'LL MAKE A PREDICTION: I THINK HE'S GOING TO BE JUST FINE, OKAY?

>> Yang: AS THE PRESIDENT SPOKE, EMOTIONS RAN HIGH BOTH INSIDE THE ARENA, AND ON THE STREETS OUTSIDE, WHERE HUNDREDS OF PROTESTERS GATHERED. WHILE IT WAS MOSTLY CALM, POLICE USED TEAR GAS AFTER THEY SAID ROCKS AND BOTTLES WERE THROWN AT THEM. OFFICIALS REPORTED AT LEAST FOUR ARRESTS AND NO INJURIES. MR. TRUMP'S PHOENIX PERFORMANCE WAS REMINISCENT OF LAST YEAR'S CAMPAIGN-- SEEMINGLY FREE OF ANY CONSTRAINTS OR INHIBITIONS. AND, AS IN LAST YEAR'S CAMPAIGN, IT CAUSED CRITICS TO QUESTION THE PRESIDENT'S FITNESS FOR OFFICE. ON CNN, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE JAMES CLAPPER.

>> I FOUND THIS DOWNRIGHT SCARY AND DISTURBING. THERE'S VERY LITTLE IN THE WAY OF CONTROLS OVER EXERCISING A NUCLEAR OPTION, WHICH IS PRETTY DAMN SCARY.

>> Yang: BUT FOR MR. TRUMP'S CORE SUPPORTERS, IT WAS MUSIC TO THEIR EARS, AND THEIR APPLAUSE, CHEERS AND CHANTS WERE JUST AS WELCOME FOR THE PRESIDENT. FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR, I'M JOHN YANG.

>> Woodruff: WE'LL HEAR MORE OF WHAT MR. TRUMP HAD TO SAY LAST NIGHT, AND EXPLORE THE REACTION TODAY, AFTER THE NEWS SUMMARY. IN THE DAY'S OTHER NEWS, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE HILLARY CLINTON SAYS MR. TRUMP MADE HER SKIN CRAWL DURING A DEBATE LAST YEAR. SHE RECALLS THE INCIDENT DURING THEIR SECOND GENERAL ELECTION FACE-OFF, IN HER NEW BOOK "WHAT HAPPENED." IN AUDIO EXCERPTS, CLINTON SPEAKS OF HOW CANDIDATE TRUMP FOLLOWED HER AROUND THE STAGE, AND SAYS, "IT WAS INCREDIBLY UNCOMFORTABLE."

>> DO YOU STAY CALM, KEEP SMILING AND CARRY ON AS IF HE WEREN'T REPEATEDLY INVADING YOUR SPACE? OR DO YOU TURN, LOOK HIM IN THE EYE AND SAY LOUDLY AND CLEARLY, "BACK UP, YOU CREEP, GET AWAY FROM ME. I KNOW YOU LOVE TO INTIMIDATE WOMEN, BUT YOU CAN'T INTIMIDATE ME, SO BACK UP."

>> Woodruff: THE DEBATE TOOK PLACE IN ST. LOUIS, LAST OCTOBER, RIGHT AFTER AN AUDIOTAPE HAD SURFACED OF MR. TRUMP BRAGGING ABOUT GROPING WOMEN. THE U.S. NAVY HAS RELIEVED THE COMMANDER OF THE 7th FLEET AFTER FOUR SHIP COLLISIONS IN ASIAN WATERS THIS YEAR. A STATEMENT TODAY ANNOUNCED VICE ADMIRAL JOSEPH AUCOIN WAS REMOVED DUE TO "LOSS OF CONFIDENCE IN HIS ABILITY TO COMMAND." HE'D BEEN SCHEDULED TO RETIRE SOON. IT FOLLOWS THE LATEST COLLISION, BETWEEN THE DESTROYER "JOHN S. MCCAIN" AND AN OIL TANKER, OFF SINGAPORE. SEVERAL AMERICAN SAILORS WERE KILLED; SEVERAL OTHERS ARE STILL MISSING. IN YEMEN, OFFICIALS SAY AN AIR STRIKE BY A SAUDI ARABIA-RUN COALITION FORCE KILLED AS MANY AS 60 PEOPLE TODAY, INCLUDING REBELS AND CIVILIANS. IT HAPPENED JUST NORTH OF THE CAPITAL, SANAA. THE CITY IS CONTROLLED BY THE SHIITE REBELS, BACKED BY IRAN. EMERGENCY WORKERS SPENT THE DAY RECOVERING BODIES FROM THE RUBBLE. THE SAUDIS SAID THEY'RE REVIEWING THE INCIDENT. THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT IS DEFENDING A DECISION TO CUT OR DELAY NEARLY $300 BILLION IN U.S. AID TO EGYPT, OVER HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. CAIRO TODAY CRITICIZED THE MOVE AS A "MISJUDGMENT" BY THE U.S., BUT ACTIVISTS SAY DISSENT IS BEING STIFLED BY THE REGIME. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN HEATHER NAUERT SAYS THE HOPE IS THAT WITHHOLDING AID WILL LEAD TO CHANGE.

>> EGYPT HAS BEEN PUT ESSENTIALLY ON NOTICE WITH THIS. NOW AS I TALK ABOUT THE MONEY THAT HAS BEEN PUT OFF TO THE SIDE I WANT TO MENTION THAT THEY STILL DID GET A BILLION DOLLARS IN FISCAL YEAR 2017. SO THEY STILL GOT SOME OF THEIR MONEY BUT WE'RE WITHHOLDING PART OF THAT MONEY UNTIL THEY CAN START TO COME AROUND AND ADHERE TO DEMOCRATIC REFORMS.

>> Woodruff: PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ADVISOR AND SON-IN-LAW JARED KUSHNER WAS IN CAIRO TODAY, AND MET WITH EGYPT'S PRESIDENT AND FOREIGN MINISTER. PAKISTAN PUSHED BACK HARDER TODAY, AGAINST PRESSURE FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP. HE STEPPED UP CRITICISM THIS WEEK THAT PAKISTAN HARBORS TALIBAN MILITANTS WHO STAGE ATTACKS IN AFGHANISTAN. TODAY, THE PAKISTANI FOREIGN MINISTER SAID IN AN INTERVIEW, ABOUT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: "THEY SHOULD NOT MAKE PAKISTAN A SCAPEGOAT FOR THEIR FAILURES IN AFGHANISTAN." BACK IN THIS COUNTRY, FEDERAL PROSECUTORS IN LAS VEGAS ARE TRYING TO REGROUP AFTER A JURY REFUSED TUESDAY TO CONVICT FOUR MEN IN A RANCH STANDOFF. THEY WERE ACCUSED OF THREATENING AND ASSAULTING FEDERAL AGENTS IN 2014. TWO WERE ACQUITTED ON ALL CHARGES, TWO OTHERS, ON MOST CHARGES. THE CASE GREW OUT OF A STANDOFF BETWEEN RANCHER CLIVEN BUNDY AND FEDERAL OFFICERS OVER HIS REFUSAL TO PAY GRAZING FEES ON PUBLIC LANDS. AN EARLIER TRIAL ENDED IN A HUNG JURY. STATUES OF TWO CONFEDERATE GENERALS WERE SHROUDED IN BLACK TODAY IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA. THE CITY COUNCIL ORDERED THE MONUMENTS TO ROBERT E. LEE AND THOMAS "STONEWALL" JACKSON COVERED. IT'S TO SYMBOLIZE MOURNING FOR HEATHER HEYER. SHE WAS PROTESTING AGAINST WHITE SUPREMACISTS THIS MONTH WHEN A CAR RAN HER DOWN AND KILLED HER. AND ON WALL STREET, STOCKS PULLED BACK AFTER YESTERDAY'S BIG GAINS. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE LOST 87 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 21,812. THE NASDAQ FELL 19 POINTS, AND THE S&P 500 SLIPPED EIGHT. STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR: I ASK A REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN FROM TEXAS ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S THREAT TO SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT IF CONGRESS DOESN'T FUND A BORDER WALL. EYES ON NORTH KOREA AS THE U.S. AND SOUTH KOREA HOLD JOINT MILITARY EXERCISES, AND MUCH MORE.

>> Woodruff: WE RETURN TO THE PRESIDENT'S CAMPAIGN RALLY LAST NIGHT, AND GET THE PERSPECTIVE OF A REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN WHERE THE BORDER DEBATE HITS HOME. REPRESENTATIVE WILL HURD OF TEXAS SERVES ON THE HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE, AS WELL AS THE INTELLIGENCE AND OVERSIGHT COMMITTEES. EARLIER THIS MONTH, HURD VISITED 20 DIFFERENT DAIRY QUEENS FOR A SERIES OF MEET-AND-GREETS WITH CONSTITUENTS ACROSS HIS SPRAWLING DISTRICT. IT STRETCHES FROM SAN ANTONIO DOWN TO EL PASO. THAT'S ONE-THIRD OF THE ENTIRE U.S.-MEXICO BORDER. CONGRESSMAN HURD, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US. SO, 20 DAIRY QUEENS. TELL US, WHAT DID YOUR CONSTITUENTS TELL YOU? WHAT WAS ON THEIR MINDS?

>> WELL, WHAT WAS INTERESTING IS ONE OF THE FIRST QUNS I GOT ASKED WAS ABOUT NORTH KOREA. I THINK THE POTENTIAL THREAT OF NUCLEAR WAR MAKES PEOPLE WANT TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS. WE ALSO HEARD ABOUT TAX REFORM AS WELL, AND WITH 820 MILES OF THE BORDER WITH U.S. AND MEXICO, THE "SMART WALL" WHICH IS A PIECE OF LEGISLATION I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON, THEY WERE ASKING MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. SO IT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I TRY TO DO EVERY YEAR. I'VE DONE OVER 450 PUBLIC EVENTS IN LAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS I'VE BEEN IN CONCLUDE, AND IT'S A GREAT WAY TO GET THE TEMPERATURE OF THE PEOPLE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT.

>> Woodruff: WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO CONSTITUENTS TODAY, BUT I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP'S COMMENTS LAST NIGHT AT THAT RALLY IN PHOENIX, WHERE HE WENT AFTER THE NEWS MEDIA OTHER ANDS, SAID HIS REMARKS IN THE AFTERMATH OF CHARLOTTESVILLE HAD BEEN MISREPRESENTED, THAT HE'S DENOUNCED BIGOTRY, AND HE'S DENOUNCED RACISM. HE SAYS HE'S BEEN UNEQUIVOCAL IN THAT REGARD. DO YOU THINK HE'S BEEN UNEQUIVOCAL IN HIS STATEMENTS SINCE CHARLOTTESVILLE?

>> WELL, UNG THAT THE CHANGES IN SOME OF THE POSITIONS CREATED DOUBT ABOUT WHETHER THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD, YOU KNOW, DENOUNCED RACISM AND BIGOTRY. I THINK HE'S-- HE'S CLARIFIED THOSE STATEMENTS, BUT WHENEVER THERE'S ANY KIND OF DOUBTS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE. AND IN AMERICA TODAY, THERE'S NO ROOM FOR SKINHEADS OR KKK OR NEO-NAZIS, OR ANTI-SEMITISM OR HATRED OR BIGOTRY OF ANY KIND.

>> Woodruff: WHERE DO YOU THINK HE STANDS ON THE ISSUE OF RACISM?

>> WELL, I THINK HE HAS CLARIFIED THOSE-- THOSE STATEMENTS IN PREVIOUS COMMENTS, BUT, AGAIN, I THINK EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE BEEN-- WOULD HAVE BEEN-- WOULD FEEL BETTER IF THOSE WERE THE STATEMENTS THAT CAME OUT FIRST AND FOREMOST ON DAY ONE.

>> Woodruff: CONGRESSMAN, I WANT TO TURN YOU TO THE SUBJECT THAT WE MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO, AND THAT IS THE PRESIDENT'S STATEMENT LAST NIGHT THAT HE VERY MUCH STILL WANTS THAT BORDER WALL BUILT ALONG THE U.S.-MEXICO BORDER. HE SAID AT ONE POINT THAT HE'S PREPARED TO SEE THE GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN IF THE CONGRESS DOES NOT VOTE THE FUNDING FOR THAT BORDER WALL AS HE ENVISIONS IT. AND I KNOW YOU HAVE NOT SUPPORTED HIS POSITION ON THE WALL. HOW DO YOU READ WHAT HE'S SAYING?

>> WELL, I THINK SHUTTING THE GOVERNMENT DOWN FOR $1.5 BILLION OF A CONCRETE STRUCTURE DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. THE G.A.O. DID A REPORT RECENTLY THAT SHOWED THAT IT ACTUALLY COSTS MORE MONEY WHEN THE GOVERNMENT WAS SHUT DOWN IN 20-- I THINK IT WAS 2013, THAN KEEPING IT OPEN. SO I THINK THAT'S A STRATEGY THAT WE SHOULDN'T PURSUE, AND TO ME THE ALTERNATIVE IS A SMART WALL, BUILDING A BALL FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE AND LEAST-EFFECTIVE WAY TO DO BORDER SECURITY. IT'S 2017. WE SHOULD HAVE SECURED OUR BORDER BY NOW. WE SHOULD HAVE OPERATIONAL CONTROL OVER THE 2,000 MILES. AND THE QUICKEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW IS WITH TECHNOLOGY AND MANPOWER. AND THIS IS A FRACTION OF THE COST. THE WALL-- BASED ON THE ADMINISTRATION NUMBERS-- PER MILE IS $25.5 MILLION A MILE. A SMART WALL, WHERE YOU USE TECHNOLOGY, HALF A MILLION. IT'S A $24 MILLION DIFFERENCE PER MILE. IT IS 2017. WE CAN DEPLOY SENSORS THAT TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ANIMAL AND A PERSON. WE CAN TRACK THAT PERSON WITH A DRONE UNTIL WE DEPLOY OUR MOST IMPORTANT RESOURCE, THE MEN AND WOMEN IN BORDER PATROL. AND THAT'S A FRACTION OF THE COST OF BUILDING A CONCRETE STRUCTURE. AND WHAT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IS EVERY MILE OF THE BORDER IS DIFFERENT FROM EVERY OTHER MILE. AND BUILDING A-- A 30-FOOT-HIGH CONCRETE STRUCK THE THAT YOU ARE TAKES FOUR HOURS TO PENETRATE IN THE DESERT, IS THE EQUIVALENT OF THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE. AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE BORDER PATROL TO RESPOND TO THREATS ON A PHYSICAL STRUCTURE, THEN THAT PHYSICAL STRUCTURE IS ACTUALLY NOT A BARRIER. SO WE SHOULD BE SMART ABOUT IT, AND WE SHOULD BE MAKING SURE WE DON'T HAVE A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL SOLUTION TO BORDER SECURITY.

>> Woodruff: IT WAS INTERESTING, THE PRESIDENT REFERRED ONLY TO DEMOCRATS OPPOSING HIS SUPPORT OF THAT WALL LAST NIGHT. BUT IT'S CLEAR THAT YOU AND OTHER REPUBLICANS HAV REPUBLICAS CONCERNS AS WELL. I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAD TO SAY ABOUT THE TWO REPUBLICAN ARIZONAS. HE DIDN'T CALL THEM OUT BY NAIRNLG SENATOR McCAIN, AND SENATOR FLAKE. BUT HE WENT AFTER BOTH OF THEM, AS HE HAS IN THE PAST, AND WE KNOW IN THE LAST FEW DAYS OF REPORTING, THAT HE GOT INTO A SHOUTING MATCH WITH THE REPUBLICAN LEADER OF THE SENATE, MITCH McCONNELL, FLAFT FEW DAYS. TODAY, BOTH McCONNELL AND THE WHITE HOUSE HAVE PUT OUT STATEMENTS SAYING THEY'RE STILL WORKING TOGETHER. BUT, CLEARLY, THERE'S BEEN REALLY, SOME BAD BLOOD. HOW DO YOU LOOK ON THAT?

>> WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS, JUDY, I LEARNED AS I WAS CRISSCROSSING MY DISTRICT GOING TO ALL THESE DAIRY QUEENS IS PEOPLE REALIZE THERE'S WAY MORE THAT UNITES US THAN DIVIDES US. THAT-- THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR OUR PARTY, THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR US, ALL OF US AS LEGISLATORS. AND I THINK OUR TIME SHOULD BE SPENT ON TALKING ABOUT THOSE THINGS THAT UNITE US AS AMERICANS AND DELIVER FOR THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS A BETTER USE OF EVERYONE'S TIME, AND THIS IS GOING TO FURTHER THE CAUSE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE A LOT MORE THAN FOCUSING ON DIVISIONS.

>> Woodruff: AND DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT IS TALKING ABOUT UNIFYING AMERICANS ENOUGH?

>> I DON'T THINK SO. AND, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THE BULLY PULPIT THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS IS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT. AND I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THIS I'VE LEARNED IN MY TWO AND A HALF YEARS IN CONGRESS IS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT TO SEE US TRANSCEND PARTY LABEL AND TAN VEND-- AND ACTUALLY GET THINGS DONE, DELIVER TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AND FING WE WERE FOCUSED ON THAT, WE WOULD BE SEEING A LOT MORE FOLKS HAPPY WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

>> Woodruff: REPRESENTATIVE HURD OF TEXAS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO BE ON.

>> Woodruff: THERE REMAINS A LOT TO UNPACK FROM THE PRESIDENT'S EXPANSIVE SPEECH LAST NIGHT IN PHOENIX. WE TURN TO KARINE JEAN-PIERRE. SHE'S A SENIOR ADVISER TO moveon.org, A CONTRIBUTING EDITOR TO "BUSTLE," AN ONLINE WOMEN'S MAGAZINE, AND A VETERAN OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. AND MATT SCHLAPP, HE'S THE CHAIRMAN OF THE AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION AND THE FORMER WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH. AND IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU BOTH WITH US AGAIN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MATT, I WANT TO COME TO YOU FIRST. THE PRESIDENT IS TALKING UNITY TODAY IN THAT SPEECH THAT HE GAVE IN NEVADA. BUT LAST NIGHT--

>> YEAH.

>> Woodruff: IT WAS A RAUCOUS CALL. HE WAS DEFENDING THE WAY HE HANDLED CHARLOTTESVILLE. I WAS JUST TALKING TO CONGRESSMAN HURD ABOUT IT. HIS SUPPORTERS IN THE AUDIENCE LOVED IT, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE LISTENING SAY THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THEY HEARD. HOW DID YOU HEAR IT?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR POLITICS AND IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR, I THINK, FOR TOO LONG. BUT WE'RE IN OUR CORNERS. THE NATION IS ARE VERY DIVIDED PLECHT HAS NEVER BEEN MORE LEFT, AND THE RIGHT HAS NEVER BEEN MORE RIGHT. AND THIS PRESIDENT WAS ELECTED-- AT LEAST HIS CORE SUPPORTERS DIDN'T ELECT HIM BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BRING PEACE AND UNITY TO THE COUNTRY. THEY WERE SPOILING FOR A FIGHT BECAUSE OF AFTER EIGHT YEARS OF OBAMA AND WHAT THEY FELT BEING CUT OUT OF THE SYSTEM THEY WANTED TO SEE ADVANCES ON THE ISSUES THEY CARE ABOUT. DONALD TRUMP IS ACTUALLY THE TYPE OF PRESIDENT THAT HIS VOTERS ASKED HIM TO BE.

>> Woodruff: AND, KARINE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> WELL, THAT'S KIND OF SCARY IN THAT REGARD BECAUSE AS PRESIDENT, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE A PRESIDENT FOR ALL, AND HE'S BEING MORE AND MORE DIVIDER IN CHIEF. I THINK WHAT WE SAW LAST NIGHT WAS 75 MINUTES OF WOE IS ME, VICTIMIZATION, THE USUAL DONALD TRUMP. HE SEEMED VERY DETACHED FROM REALITY, ALSO INCREDIBLY ISOLATED. AND HE TRIED TO REWRITE HISTORY ON HOW HE RESPONDED TO CHARLOTTESVILLE BY OMITTING ALL-- MANY SIDES AND BOTH SIDES, AND SAYING THAT "VERY FINE PEOPLE" SAYING THAT ABOUT THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS. SO IT WAS INCREDIBLY DISTURBING WHAT WE SAW YESTERDAY. BUT IT'S ALSO NOT SURPRISING. HE WAS OFF SCRIPT AND SPEAKING FROM HIS HEART.

>> JUDY--

>> Woodruff: JUST ONE MINUTE, MATT. I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO A BRIEF PART OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAD TO SAY. THIS IS ON THE NEWS MEDIA.

>> THESE ARE SICK PEOPLE. YOU KNOW THE THING I DON'T UNDERSTAND? YOU WOULD THINK, YOU WOULD THINK THEY'D WANT TO MAKE OUR COUNTRY GREAT AGAIN, AND I HONESTLY BELIEVE THEY DON'T. I HONESTLY BELIEVE IT. IF YOU WANT TO DISCOVER THE SOURCE OF THE DIVISION IN OUR COUNTRY, LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THE FAKE NEWS AND THE CROOKED MEDIA. ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) AND I DON'T BELIEVE THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE, AND THAT'S WHY I DO THIS. IF THEY WOULD CHANGE, I WOULD NEVER SAY IT. THE ONLY PEOPLE GIVING A PLATFORM TO THESE HATE GROUPS IS THE MEDIA ITSELF AND THE FAKE NEWS. ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ).

>> Woodruff: MATT, YOU WERE SAYING EARLIER THE PRESIDENT IS DOING WHAT HIS SUPPORTERS ELECTED HIM TO DO.

>> YES.

>> Woodruff: IS THIS PART OF THAT?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. WE HAVE BEEN FIGHT AGO CONSERVATIVES HAVE BEEN FIGHTING WITH THE NATIONAL MEDIA FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY DON'T GET A FAIR SHAKE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE HARVARD STUDY THAT CAME OUT RECENTLY ON NEWS COVERAGE, ALL THE BIG NETWORKS AND THE BIG MEDIA OUTLETS, IT SKEWED WAY AGAINST TRUMP. IT SKEWED WAY TO THE LEFT. IF YOU LOOK AT SURVEYS OF REPORTERS AND WHO THEY TEND TO VOTE FOR AND THEIR POLITICAL LEANINGS, IT SKEWS TO THE LEFT. IT DOESN'T MEAN A DEMOCRATIC AND LEFT-LEANING REPORTER CAN'T BE FAIR, AND I THINK IT'S VERY UNFAIR TO TALK ABOUT "THE MEDIA" MONOLITHICALLY. AND HE BROUGHT THAT OUT IN HIS REMARKS LAST NIGHT, TOO. BUT THERE ARE PLACE WHERE'S A CONSERVATIVE, QUITE HONESTLY, CAN'T GET A FAIR SHAKE. THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE. BUT THERE ARE SOME PLACES THEY CAN'T AND THIS IS A 50-YEAR BATTLE CONSERVATIVES HAVE HAD IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> Woodruff: HOW DOES THIS ADVANCE THE PRESIDENT'S AGENDA?

>> IT DOESN'T AT ALL. AND FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER, THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS THAT WERE MARCHING IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, THEY WEREN'T PLEDGING THEIR ALLEGIANCE TO "THE NEW YORK TIMES" OR CNN. THEY WERE PLEDGING THEIR ALLEGIANCE TO DONALD TRUMP. SOME OF THEM WERE SALUTING TO THE NAZI FLAG IN HIS NAME. SO THE FAKE NEWS IS COMING FROM DONALD TRUMP, OR WE ARE-- WE ARE ESSENTIALLY FOLLOWING EVERYTHING THAT HE IS SAYING. SO WE'RE NOT MAKING THIS UP. THESE ARE HIS WORDS. ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS PLAY BACK THE TAPES.

>> Woodruff: THE OTHER THING I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH ABOUT-- AND THIS IS QUICKLY JUST LISTEN TO ANOTHER EXCERPT OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAD TO SAY LAST NIGHT ABOUT FELLOW REPUBLICANS.

>> OBAMACARE IS A DISASTER, AND THINK, THINK-- WE WERE JUST ONE VOTE AWAY FROM VICTORY AFTER SEVEN YEARS OF EVERYBODY PROCLAIMING WEPEEL AND REPLACE. ONE VOTE AWAY. ONE, ONE VOTE. ONE VOTE AWAY. AND NOBODY WANTS ME TO TALK ABOUT YOUR OTHER SENATOR, WHOSE WEAK ON BORDERS, WEAK ON CRIME, SO I WON'T TALK ABOUT HIM. NOBODY WANTS ME TO TALK ABOUT HIM. NOBODY KNOWS WHO THE HELL HE IS.

>> Woodruff: SO, MATT, OF COURSE, THE PRESIDENT IS REFERRING TO YOORLZ'S TWO SENATORS.

>> RIGHT.

>> Woodruff: JEFF FLAKE WHO HE WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT.

>> RIGHT.

>> Sreenivasan: AND SENATOR JOHNICA MAIN, WHO BY THE WAY IS UNDERGOING CHEMOTHERAPY RIGHT NOW FOR CANCER.

>> #INDISPUTABLE. ONE VOTE AWAY. AND THINK ABOUT IT, TWO OF THOSE VOTES, BOTH SENATOR MURKOWSKI AND SENATOR JOHN McCain, went around this country-- John McCAIN FEATURED IT IN HIS TELEVISION ADS THAT HE WOULD LEAD THE CHARGE TO REPEAL AND REPLACE OBAMACARE. AND IT'S WORSE THAN WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID. THERE ARE ACTUALLY SIX REPUBLICAN SENATORS WHO SWITCHED THEIR VOTE ON A COPYCAT VOTE. IN 2015, THEY VOTED TO REPEAL OBAMACARE, KNOWING OBAMA WOULD VETO IT. THIS TIME THEY DIDN'T VOTE THAT WAY BECAUSE THEY KNEW IT WOULD BECOME LAW. WHY DID THEY GO AROUND THIS COUNTRY FOR SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS SAYING THEY WOULD REPEAL IT.

>> Woodruff: WHAT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT, KARINE, IS HOW DOES THIS HELP THE PRESIDENT TO BE GOING AFTER MEMBERS OF HIS OWN PARTY?

>> IT DOESN'T AT ALL--

>> BUT YOU KIND OF ENJOY TDON'T YOU?

>> HEY, IT'S GREAT. I HAVE POPCORN FOR DAYS TO WATCH THIS MADNESS. BUT WHEN CONGRESS COMES BACK IN SEPTEMBER, DONALD TRUMP'S GOING TO BE A VERY LONELY PERSON. AND THE REASON WHY OBAMACARE FAILED TO BE REPEALED AND IS STILL THE LAW TODAY IS BECAUSE TRUMPCARE WAS SO UNPOPULAR. THE ONLY THING MORE UNPOPULAR THAN DONALD TRUMP WAS TRUMPCARE.

>> THIS IS, THIS IS--

>> AND, REMEMBER, HE ONLY NEEDED 50 VOTES. NOT 60.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> 50. AND THEY COULDN'T GET THAT NUMBER.

>> AND WE HAVE 52 REPUBLICAN SENATORS. THIS IS A FIGHT MY PARTY HAS TO HAVE. WE WON'T PUSH AGGRESSIVELY FOR OUR AGENDA, OUR SUPPORTERS START TO WONDER WHY THEY PUT REPUBLICANS IN AT ALL.

>> Woodruff: SO DOES THAT JUSTIFY OR EXPLAIN THE PRESIDENT'S-- WHAT WAS REPORTED TO BE-- THIS SHOUTING MATCH, ANGRY CONVERSATION BETWEEN MITCH McCONNELL--

>> HAVING-- WE BOTH SERVED IN DIFFERENT WHITE HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, BUT I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES WORD SPREAD WHEN THE PRESIDENT, THE VICE PRESIDENT, OR SOMEONE SENIOR IN THE STAFF HAD HARSH WORDS WITH SOMEONE ON THE OTHER END OF PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE.

>> Woodruff: YOU'RE SAYING THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE.

>> IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. REMEMBER TRENT LOTT? THERE WAS ALL THAT CONTROVERSY. SO THIS IS NOT UNCOMMON. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IN THE TRUMP ERA WHICH I DON'T LIKE IS THESE SPATS TEND TO WIND UP IN THE PAGES OF MAGAZINES AND NEWSPAPERS. I WISH THERE WAS A LITTLE MORE DISCRETION. I DON'T KNOW WHO'S GUILTY ON THAT FRONT, BUT THE WHITE HOUSE SURE HAS BEEN LEAKING A LOT, PREVIOUS TO GENERAL KELLY.

>> Woodruff: BUT IT DOES RAISE A QUESTION, KANE, KARINE, IS THIS PRESIDENT GOING TO GET DONE WHAT HE WANTS TO GET DONE-- TAX REFORM, INFRASTRUCTURE WORK.

>> THAT'S RIGHT. HEALTH CARE.

>> Woodruff: HEALTH CARE.

>> OH, GOSH!

>> Woodruff: IS THIS GOING TO ADVANCE?

>> I JUST THINK IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR HIM. BUT I HAVE TO SAY REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN ENABLING HIM. I THINK EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS A SPAT, IF YOU WILL, THAT WAS REPORTED IN THE PAPER LAST NIGHT, THEY ARE STILL GOING TO BE LOCKSTEP WITH DONALD TRUMP. I DON'T SEE ANY SCENARIO WHERE THEY ARE NOT.

>> WE NEED TO HAVE THIS FIGHT. WE NEED TO LEARN AS A PARTY THAT-- I GIVE YOU GUYS GREAT CREDIT IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. YOU GOT THE AGENDA THROUGH. EVEN WHEN YOU COULDN'T GET IT THROUGH CONGRESS, BY HOOK, BY CROOK, BY PHONE, BY PEN, THEY GOT IT IN. THE REPUBLICANS ARE MUCH MORE TIMID. THEY'RE SO AFRAID WE'LL RANKLE PEOPLE. THAT'S WHY WE TURN TO TRUMP. IT DOESN'T END UP IN RESULTS. THEY WANT TO SEE RESULTS. MAYBE THIS WON'T WORK, BUT MAYBE IT'S OUR ONLY WAY TO GET THINGS DONE.

>> Woodruff: NOTHING TIMID ABOUT THIS PRESIDENT.

>> YOU OBSTRUCTED FOR EIGHT YEARS AND WERE VERY SUCCESSFUL. THERE'S A REASON WE HAVE JUSTICE GORSUCH--

>> BOUGHT THE PEOPLE GAVE REPUBLICANS MAJORITY. WE'RE GOOD AT OBSTRUCTING. LET'S SEE IF WE CAN ACTUALLY GOVERN.

>> YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU.

>> Woodruff: WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK TO CONTINUE THIS. THANK YOU BOTH.

>> Woodruff: STAY WITH US, COMING UP ON THE NEWSHOUR: HOW ONE MAN WAS WRONGLY BLAMED FOR THE ATTACK IN CHARLOTTESVILLE. ALLEGATIONS THAT EXXON MISLED THE PUBLIC ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE. AND BILLY BRAGG REFLECTS ON THE MUSIC THAT INFLUENCED HIS OWN UNIQUE BLEND OF ROCK AND FOLK. BUT FIRST, WAR GAMES IN KOREA. FOR DECADES, THE U.S. AND SOUTH KOREANS HAVE PRACTICED MILITARY EXERCISES, OFTEN INVOLVING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TROOPS AND MASSIVE FIREPOWER. THEY'RE DESIGNED TO ENHANCE READINESS AND MAINTAIN STABILITY. BUT SOME KOREA WATCHERS SAY THESE EXERCISES ARE TOO PROVOCATIVE. NEWSHOUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT NICK SCHIFRIN HAS THIS REPORT.

>> Reporter: AS VISUALS GO, THIS IS AS PROVOCATIVE AS THIS MONTH'S U.S.-SOUTH KOREA EXERCISES GET. FOUR MEN WITH 15 STARS IN FRONT OF A PATRIOT MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM IN SOUTH KOREA.

>> WE HAVE HAD THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PROVIDING MILITARY OPTIONS TO OUR NATIONAL LEADERS. AND EXERCISES ARE A WAY OF MAKING SURE THE OPTION IS A READY OPTION, A CAPABLE OPTION,

>> Reporter: GENERAL VINCENT BROOKS IS THE U.S.' TOP COMMANDER IN SOUTH KOREA. HE IS LEADING EXERCISES THAT ARE ALMOST ENTIRELY COMPUTER SIMULATIONS, AS SEEN HERE IN THE 2013 VERSION. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE MUCH, BUT THE EXERCISES ALLOW THE U.S. AND SOUTH KOREA MILITARIES TO TEST THEIR COMMUNICATION IN CASE OF WAR.

>> COMMAND, AND BEING IN READINESS TO FIGHT TONIGHT IF WE HAVE TO, IS WHAT WE DO.

>> Reporter: BUT EXERCISES THE U.S. CALLS DEFENSIVE NORTH KOREA CALLS PROVOCATIVE. TODAY STATE TV SHOWED A SMILING KIM JONG UN ORDERING THE PRODUCTION OF MORE ROCKET WARHEADS AND ENGINES. AND A NOT SO SUBTLE HINT ON THE POSTER THAT NORTH KOREA IS DEVELOPING A NEW MISSILE DESIGN. NORTH KOREA SAID THE EXERCISES WERE DRIVING THE PENINSULA TO WAR, AND VOWED TO RESPOND.

>> ( translated ): U.S. WARMONGERS IGNORED OUR WARNING THAT THEY SHOULD ACT CAUTIOUSLY AND INSTEAD MADE A DANGEROUS MILITARY PROVOCATION. THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO AVOID MERCILESS RETALIATION AND UNSPARING PUNISHMENT.

>> TO SAY THESE DEFENSIVE, DETERRENCE EXERCISES ARE THE CAUSE OF NORTH KOREA'S INSECURITY SIMPLY HAVE IT BACKWARDS.

>> Reporter: BALBINA HWANG IS A VISITING GEORGETOWN PROFESSOR AND FORMER SENIOR STATE DEPARTMENT ADVISOR ON NORTH KOREA. SHE POINTS OUT IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, THE NORTH KOREANS HAVE DRAMATICALLY INCREASED THEIR MISSILE TESTS AND MISSILE CAPABILITIES. AND IT'S THOSE TESTS THAT MAKE U.S. PREPAREDNESS CRUCIAL.

>> IT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE U.N. FORCES, U.S. AND SOUTH KOREA, TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN CONSTANTLY, MODERN, CAPABLE DEFENSE AND DETERRENCE. THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE EXERCISE.

>> Reporter: BUT THE U.S. AND SOUTH KOREA ALSO CONDUCT ANNUAL EXERCISES WITH MASSIVE NUMBERS OF FORCES, AND MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF LIVE FIRE. THESE ARE HELD EVERY SPRING, AND WHEN CONSIDERED ALONGSIDE WITH THIS MONTH'S EXERCISES, THE U.S. SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE NORTH KOREAN ANXIETIES ARE LEGITIMATE, SAYS MANSFIELD FOUNDATION PRESIDENT FRANK JANUZZI.

>> EVERY TIME WE ARE PRACTICING, WHETHER IT'S FIELD EXERCISES, OR EVEN A TABLE TOP EXERCISE, THEY GET A LITTLE BIT NERVOUS ABOUT WHAT WE MIGHT DO. THEY ALSO WORRY ABOUT THE CAPABILITIES WE'RE DEMONSTRATING. AND IN THIS PARTICULAR EXERCISE IN THE PAST, WE HAVE SOMETIMES DEMONSTRATED A CAPABILITY TO LAUNCH A DECAPITATION ATTACK, ATTACKING THE NORTH KOREAN LEADERSHIP.

>> Reporter: JANUZZI PARTICPATED IN 2004 TALKS THAT FROZE AND DISMANTLED NORTH KOREA'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM IN EXCHANGE FOR ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE. HE WAS A STATE DEPARTMENT AND CONGRESSIONAL NORTH KOREA POLICY ANALYST. HE BELIEVES THESE EXERCISES CONTRIBUTE TO INCREASED TENSIONS, AND THAT THE U.S. SHOULD CHANGE THEM TO SEND A SIGNAL.

>> DETERRENCE CAN BE BOLSTERED WITHOUT FLEXING OUR MUSCLES WITH B-52 BOMBERS, OR B-2 BOMBERS, NUCLEAR CAPABLE STRIKE AIRCRAFT THAT COULD ANNIHILATE NORTH KOREA. WE DON'T NEED NECESSARILY TO PRACTICE THOSE MARTIAL ARTS.

>> Reporter: OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS, SOME OF THE TENSION HAS COOLED. LAST NIGHT PRESIDENT TRUMP EVEN PRAISED KIM JONG UN.

>> I BELIEVE HE IS STARTING TO RESPECT US, I RESPECT THAT FACT VERY MUCH. RESPECT THAT FACT. AND MAYBE, PROBABLY NOT, BUT MAYBE, SOMETHING POSITIVE CAN COME ABOUT.

>> Reporter: AND NORTH KOREA, DESPITE FIERY RHETORIC, HAS INDICATED IT DOESN'T WANT INCREASED CONFLICT.

>> ALL THIS TALK AND RHETORIC ABOUT SHOOTING MISSILES AND SEA OF FIRE AND NUCLEAR WAR, THAT'S TALK. WE DON'T SEE ANY PARTICULAR NORTH KOREAN READINESS FOR WAR.

>> A CLOSE READING OF THE NORTH KOREA'S STATEMENTS HAS PROVIDED SIGNALS TO THE UNITED STATES, THAT THEY'RE WILLING TO SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH US. WE NEED TO TEST THEM AND EXPLORE WHAT, IF ANYTHING, IS POSSIBLE THROUGH THOSE TALKS.

>> Reporter: AND THOSE COMMANDERS LEADING THIS MONTH'S EXERCISE, INCLUDING ADMIRAL HARRY HARRIS, SAY THEY HOPE THEIR READINESS CREATES ROOM FOR DIPLOMACY.

>> BECAUSE CREDIBLE COMBAT POWER SHOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF DIPLOMACY. AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

>> Reporter: SO THE U.S. EXERCISES AND THE NORTH KOREAN RHETORIC WILL CONTINUE. BUT, FROM ALL INDICATIONS, BOTH SIDES HOPE THE THREATS OF WAR, AND THE PREPARATIONS FOR WAR, WON'T LEAD TO WAR. FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR, I'M NICK SCHIFRIN.

>> Woodruff: NOW, A PERSONAL TAKE ON THE AFTERMATH OF THE VIOLENCE IN CHARLOTTESVILLE. FORMER FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICER AND DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGN AIDE, BRENNAN GILMORE WAS THERE THE NIGHT BEFORE THE ATTACK TO PROTEST AGAINST A "UNITE THE RIGHT" RALLY. HE WITNESSED THE CAR PLOW INTO A CROWD OF PROTESTERS, KILLING HEATHER HEYER AND INJURING 19 OTHERS. HE WAS TAKING A VIDEO THAT CAPTURED THE INCIDENT. HE MADE IT PUBLIC, DID MEDIA INTERVIEWS AND THEN CAME DEATH THREATS AND CONSPIRACY THEORIES. BRENNAN GILMORE JOINS ME NOW. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: SO, BRENNAN, TELL US AGAIN, WHY DID YOU WANT TO BE PART OF THIS PROTEST?

>> WELL, I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO BE THERE AS A SHOW OF NUMBERS AGAINST THESE WHITE SUPREMACISTS. I THINK ANY TIME YOU HAVE THIS VERY VIAL IDEOLOGY SHOW ITS FACE IN THIS COUNTRY, YOU NEED TO HAVE A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO REJECT IT SHOW UP AND SHOW THAT THE NUMBERS ARE ON OUR SIDE SO THAT'S WHAT TOOK ME TO CHARLOTTESVILLE.

>> Woodruff: AND YOU WERE SAYING THIS IS CLOSE TO YOUR HOMETOWN.

>> YES, I LIVE IN CHARLOTTESVILLE.

>> Woodruff: WHAT EXACTLY DID YOU WITNESS?

>> WELL, THE DAY-- AS SOON AS I GOT THERE EARLY IN THE MORNING-- HAD ALREADY BECOME QUITE TENSE AND THERE WERE FIGHTS BREAKING OUT BETWEEN COUNTERPROTESTERS AND THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS IN THE PARK. THAT BECAME PRETTY VIOLENT PRETTY QUICKLY, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF FIST FIGHTS, THINGS THAT WERE THROWN--

>> Woodruff: ON BOTH SIDES.

>> YES, THIS WAS HAPPENING ON BOTH SIDES. SHORTLY THEREAFTER, A STATE OF EMERGENCY WAS DECLARED SO THE CENTRAL LOCATION OF THE PROTEST WAS BROKEN UP BY A PRETTY OVERWHELMING POLICE PRESENCE, AND THEN THESE GROUPS SPLIT APART AND MOVED ELSEWHERE IN CHARLOTTESVILLE. AND THE SITUATION BECAME QUITE DANGEROUS AS THESE GROUPS WERE, YOU KNOW, WANDERING THE STREETS. SO NOT LONG AFTER, I FOUND MYSELF ON A SIDE STREET, FOREST STREET IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, WITH A COUPLE OF FRENTS. AND I WITNESSED A CROWD OF COUNTERPROTESTERS, OF ANTIRACIST PROTESTERS, COMING UP FOREST STREET.

>> AND BEGAN TO FILM THEIR MARCH. THEY WERE IN, YOU KNOW, A CELEBRATORY MOOD, AFTER THE STATE OF EMERGENCY THE WHITE SUPREMACIST AND NAZI GROUPS HAD BEEN BANISHED FROM CHARLOTTESVILLE. BEGAN FILMING WHEN FROM BEHIND ME I HEARD A VEHICLE ACCELERATING VERY QUICKLY. I TURNED AND SAW THE VEHICLE IN QUESTION COME DOWN FOREST STREET AT A VERY HIGH RATE OF SPEED. IT WENT OVER A MEDIAN AREA, AND THEN BARRELED INTO THE CROWD, SENDING BODIES FLYING EVERYWHERE.

>> Woodruff: YOU WERE THERE, YOU ATTENDED, I THINK, TO SOME OF THE INJURED. THEN YOU QUICKLY POSTED THIS ONLINE, AND THEN WITHIN A DAY OR SO, WHAT HAPPENED?

>> THAT'S CORRECT. WELL, I IMMEDIATELY GAVE THE VIDEO TO POLICE BECAUSE I REALIZED THAT I HAD EVIDENCE, AND THEN TOOK A LITTLE WHILE TO DETERMINE THE BENEFITS OF POSTING IT ONLINE. I DID MAKE A DECISION TO DO SO. AND BASICALLY, WITHIN 24, 36 HOURS I RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM MY SISTER WHO HAD BEEN MONITORING, YOU KNOW, MY PRESENCE ON THE INTERNET AND MEDIA, AND SHE SAID, "BRENNAN, I'VE FOUND THIS, YOU KNOW, ALT-RIGHT NAZI MESSAGE BOARD, AND THEY'VE PUBLISHED OUR PARENTS' HOME ADDRESS, AND THERE'S DEATH THREATS TOWARDS YOU, AND THEY'RE SUGGESTING THAT YOU ARE SOMEHOW INVOLVED IN THE ATTACK, EITHER AS AN ORCHESTRATER OR YOU SOME SMOU PLAYED A ROLE, AND THAT YOU WEREN'T JUST THERE TO FILM IT BUT YOU WERE ACTUALLY THERE AS PART OF THE ARRANGEMENT.

>> Woodruff: SOME OF THESE THREATS WERE PRETTY GRAPHIC. BUT WHAT WERE THE KIND OF THINGS THEY WERE SAYING?

>> "YOU'RE A DEAD MAN WALKING." "YOU'RE A C.I.A. OPERA ITATIVE." YOU OF "YOU WORK FOR GEORGE SOROS OR BARACK OBAMA OR HILLARY CLINTON OR A JEWISH COMPROMISE." "WE'RE COMING FOR YOU. WE KNOW WHERE YOU ARE. YOU'RE GOING TO BURN IN HELL." ANY SORT OF A LITANY OF ACCUSATIONS AND THREATS THAT I, YOU KNOW, CAN'T DISCUSS ON TELEVISION. BUT THEY CAME IN ON TWITTER, VIA FACEBOOK, POSTED ON THESE MESSAGE BOARDS AT A PRETTY ALARMING RATE.

>> Woodruff: THERE WERE-- THERE WERE REPORTS, I BE, ON THE VERY-- THE FAR-RIGHT SITE CALLED INFOWARS, THE--

>> YES, THAT'S CORRECT. WITHIN, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE DAYS, YOU KNOW, THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES STARTED ON SOME RATHER BIZARRE SITES THAT SORT OF TWISTED MY FORMER SERVICE WITH THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND TO ACCUSATIONS THAT I HAD CAUSED GENOCIDE IN AFRICA, AND SOME JUST RIDICULOUSLY UNBELIEVABLE THINGS. BUT, YES, BY A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER THE INCIDENT, IT WAS ON INFOWARS, WITH AN HOUR-LONG SPECIAL ABOUT HOW THE WHOLE THING IN CHARLOTTESVILLE WAS A SOROS PLOT TO DESTABILIZE THE COUNTRY--

>> Woodruff: GEORGE SOROS BEING THE WEALTHY--

>> BILLIONAIRE HEDGE FUND MANAGER. AND THAT I HAD PLAYED A KEY ROLE AS AN OPERATIVE AND THAT THIS-- MY ROLE IN IT HELPED EXPOSE THE TRUTH.

>> Woodruff: IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU DID OR HOW YOU GOT INVOLVED, BRENNAN, THAT COULD HAVE BEEN INTERPRETED AS PART OF ORGANIZING THIS, MAKING IT HAPPEN?

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT TRIGGERED A LOT OF PEOPLE WAS MY BACKGROUND WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND WITH, YOU KNOW, DEMOCRATIC POLITICS. I HAD WORKED AS CHIEF OF STAFF TO TOM PERYELLOW WHO HAD RUN FOR GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA, AND I WAS IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT. AND SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT EQAITS TO SOME SORT OF-- YOU KNOW, SOME SORT OF SPY WORK. BUT I WAS VERY PROUD OF MY FOREIGN SERVICE CAREER AND WHAT I DID OVERSEAS. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. BUT, YOU KNOW, FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE USED TO WATCHING MOVIES AND THINGS, AND THE TRUTH IS-- IS LESS-- LESS RELEVANT THAN THE IDEAS THAT THEY HAVE IN THEIR MIND.

>> Woodruff: YOU WERE CONTINGENT US JUST BEFORE THIS THAT THIS HAS DIED DOWN A LITTLE, SOME OF THE THREATS AND SO FORTH, THEY ARE STILL OUT THERE. HOW ARE YOU DEALING WITH IT PERSONALLY?

>> YEAH, IF ANYTHING, IT'S EMBOLDENED ME TO SPEAK MORE. THE THREATS HAVE COME IN, AND THIS IS A TACTIC FROM THE ALT-RIGHT TO INTIMIDATE PEOPLE AND NOT CALLING THINGS AS THEY SEE THEM AND NOT TALK ABOUT THE TRUTH OF A VERY, VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION FOR OUR COUNTRY, AND THAT IS THE RESURGENCE OF A VIOLENT IDEOLOGY OF WHITE SUPREMACY. SO IF ANYTHING, IT'S CONVINCED ME TO BE EVEN LOUDER IN CONDEMNING THIS, AND THE REASON I WENT TO CHARLOTTESVILLE IN THE FIRST PLACE WAS TO STAND UP AGAINST IT. AND SO, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY I WAS TAKEN ABACK, AND WORRIED FOR MY FAMILY'S SAFETY. BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE ALSO BEEN INCREDIBLY INSISTENT THAT I CONTINUE TO SPEAK OUT AND USE THIS PLATFORM WHEN I CAME BY IN A VERY UNFORTUNATE WAY TO PUSH BACK AGAINST SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, CAN DO A LOT OF DAMAGE TO US.

>> Woodruff: WHAT WOULD YOU SAY YOU LEARNED FROM THIS EXPERIENCE?

>> THE BROADER QUESTION HERE IS HOW DANGEROUS THIS IDEOLOGY IS FOR OUR COUNTRY, WHAT WE SAW IN CHARLOTTESVILLE. AND THIS IS WHAT I'VE SEEN OVERSEAS AS WELL. I WORKED IN A LOT OF CONFLICT AREAS IN AFRICA, WHERE YOU SEE THESE VERY DESTRUCTIVE FORCES OF TRIBALISM, OF RACISM BE MANIPULATED AND INSTRUMENTALIZED BY POLITICAL LEADERS. AND THEY'RE FORCES THAT ONCE THEY ARE-- ONCE THE PANDORA'S BOX OF RACISM IS OPENED UP, IT CAN SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL VERY, VERY QUICKLY. SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S IMPERATIVE THAT POLITICAL LEADERS ON ALL SIDES CONDEMN THIS AND SAY, "HERE'S THE BOUNDS OF WHAT'S ACCEPTABLE IN OUR POLITICAL DISCOURSE IN THE UNITED STATES, AND WE DRAW A VERY FIRM LINE," AND ABSOLUTELY EXILE THE IDEA OF IDEOLOGY OF WHITE SUPREMACY WHICH BY ITS VERY NATURE IS VIOLENCE, WHICH NECESSITATES REMOVING CERTAIN CLASSES OR RACE OF CITIZENS. WE'VE SEEN SOME LEADERS DO THIS, BUT NOT ENOUGH.

>> Woodruff: WELL, IT'S CLEARLY SOMETHING THAT I THINK MANY PEOPLE THOUGHT COULDN'T HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT HERE IT IS.

>> ABSOLUTELY. I THINK IT CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE, AND IT'S INCREDIBLY DESTRUCTIVE WHEN IT REARS ITS HEAD. IT BELONGS IN THE DUST BIN OF HISTORY.

>> Woodruff: BRENNAN GILMORE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: EXXONMOBIL HAS LONG BEEN CRITICIZED FOR ALLEGEDLY HIDING WHAT IT KNEW ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE. JUST TODAY, A PAIR OF RESEARCHERS SAY EXXON'S OWN DOCUMENTS PROVE THAT IS TRUE. WILLIAM BRANGHAM HAS MORE, IN OUR WEEKLY SERIES ON THE LEADING EDGE OF SCIENCE.

>> Brangham: THANKS JUDY. TWO RESEARCHERS FROM HARVARD UNIVERSITY PUBLISHED A STUDY TODAY ALLEGING THAT EXXONMOBIL TRIED TO SYSTEMATICALLY MISLEAD THE PUBLIC ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE FOR 40 YEARS. THE RESEARCHERS BEGAN THIS STUDY AFTER THE ENERGY COMPANY CHALLENGED CRITICS TO COMPARE EXXON'S OWN PEER-REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH ON CLIMATE CHANGE, AGAINST WHAT THE COMPANY PUBLICLY SAID ABOUT THAT SCIENCE. OUR SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT MILES O'BRIEN JOINS US FROM DETROIT WITH MORE ON THIS. SO, MILES, TELL US, WHAT WAS THE SCOPE OF THIS PARTICULAR STUDY?

>> WELL, WILLIAM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SYSTEMATIC, SCIENTIFIC CONTENT ANALYSIS. 187 INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL CORPORATE DOCUMENTS PRODUCED BY EXXONMOBIL, 1977-2014. NOW, DURING THAT TIERNL THE OIL GIANT WAS FUNDING A LOT OF RIGOROUS STUDIES ON CLIMATE CHANGE. THEY WERE PUBLISHED IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS, NOT EASILY ACCESSIBLE OR DIGESTIBLE TO THE PUBLIC. 83% OF THESE PEER-REVIEWED STUDIES MATCHED THE SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL, CAUSED BY HUMANS, LARGELY, AND IS AN EXISTENTIAL CONCERN. BUT THE STUDY CONCLUDES EXXONMOBIL OFFERED THE GENERAL PUBLIC SOMETHING ELSE, A DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED STANCE ON CLIMATE SCIENCE. NOW, TO ASSESS EXXONMOBIL'S PUBLIC STATEMENTS, THE RESEARCHERS WENT THROUGH THE SO-CALLED "ADVERITORIALS" THAT THE COMPANY PURCHASED ON THE OP-ED PAGE OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES" EVERY THURSDAY FOR 30 YEARS. AND IT WAS ALMOST THE SAME PROPORTION. 81% OF THOSE STATEMENTS, BUT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, A COMPLETELY DIVERGENT VIEW. THEY CAST DOUBT ON WHETHER CLIMATE CHANGE WAS REAL. IT DISCOUNTED HUMAN IMPACTS. AND THEY SUGGESTED THERE WAS NOTHING PRACTICAL TO DO ABOUT IT ANYWAY. THE STUDY CO-AUTHOR, GEOFFREY SUPRAN, IS A POSTDOCTORAL RESEARCHER AT HARVARD.

>> WHAT WE FOUND WHEN WE READ THESE DOCUMENTS IS A CLEAR, UNMISTAKABLE, SYSTEMATIC DISCREPANCY BETWEEN, ON THE ONE HAND, WHAT EXXONMOBIL SAID AND DISCUSSED ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE IN PRIVATE AND IN ACADEMIC CIRCLES. AND ON THE OTHER HAND, WHAT IT SAID ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, NO LESS THAN IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

>> SO, MILES, THIS WHOLE RESEARCH EFFORT BASICALLY CAME OUT OF A DARE THAT EXXONMOBIL MADE SAYING, "TAKE A LOOK AT OUR DOCUMENTS. OF THE EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED THERE.

>> YES, WILLIAM, THIS WAS AN ATTEMPT TO CALL A BLUFF, I THINK. EXXONMOBIL AUTHORED A BLOG TWO YEARS AGO, DARING ITS CRITICS TO ANALYZE ITS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE DOCUMENTS ON CLIMATE SCIENCE. THEY SAID "READ ALL OF THESE DOCUMENTS. MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND." THE CHALLENGE CAME IN THE WAKE OF SOME GREAT INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING BY "INSIDE CLIMATE NEWS," AND IT FOUND EXXONMOBIL YEARS AGO ACKNOWLEDGED CLIMATE CHANGE PRIVATELY, IT IS CAUSED BY HUMANS AND IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM, BUT IT DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE IT PUBLICLY. THE STUDY CO-AUTHOR NAOMI ARESKUS, IS A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY OF SCIENCE AT HARVARD.

>> WE SEE A PICTURE WHERE THE COMPANY IS AWARE OF EVOLVING SCIENCE, AND PRETTY MUCH ANY CLIMATE SCIENTIST WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING AT THE TIME WOULD HAVE BASICALLY AGREED WITH MORE OR LESS. BUT IN CONTRAST, WHEN EXXONMOBIL TURNED TO THE PUBLIC AND PUBLISHED EDITORIALS, THERE WE SEE A VERY DIFFERENT PICTURE. THERE WE SEE A VERY CONSISTENT PICTURE EMPHASIZING DOUBT, IMPLYING THAT WE DON'T REALLY KNOW, THAT THE SCIENCE IS UNSETTLED AND, THEREFORE, IT'S EITHER TOO SOON TO ACT OR IT WOULD BE TOO EXPENSIVE TO ACT OR THE PROBLEM TOO DIFFICULT TO SOLVE.

>> MILES, DOES THE PAPER POINT OUT ANY SPECIFIC EXAMPLES THAT THE AUTHORS SAY PROVE THEIR CONCLUSION ABOUT EXXON?

>> WELL, WILLIAM, THERE'S ONE THAT REALLY STANDS OUT. IN 1985, AN EXXON SCIENTIST COAUTHORED A STUDY THAT WAS REALLY PRESCIENT. HE PREDICTED THAT GLOBAL CLIMATE AT THE SURFACE WOULD INCREASE BY TWO DEGREES ABOVE PREINDUSTRIAL LEVELS, AND THIS WAS WAY BEFORE THE UNITED NATIONS SCIENTISTS CAME TO THAT CONCLUSION. AND YET, 15 YEARS AFTER THAT STUDY WAS RELEASED IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES," EXXON RELEASED AN ADVERTORIAL SAYING UNSETTLED SCIENCE WAS THE RULE OF THE DAY, AND IT QUOTED DATA FROM OTHER STUDIES WHICH SEEMED TO SUGGEST IT WAS NATURAL FLUCTUATIONS. THE AUTHORES OF THAT STUDY SAID IT WAS EXTREMELY MISLEADING.

>> WE HAVE MESSAGES LIKE THIS ABOUT UNSETTLED SCIENCE READ BY PROBABLY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, AND IN CONTRAST, DECENT CLIMATE SCIENCE, BY EXXON'S OWN SCIENTISTS, HIDDEN AWAY IN PEER-REVIEWED ARTICLES IN, YOU KNOW, SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS. AND SO THE DISCREPANCY IS NOT JUST IN THE MESSAGE BEING COMMUNICATED.

>> MILES, WHAT HAS EXXON SAID ABOUT THIS REPORT?

>> WELL, WE CALLED EXXONMOBIL AND WE ASKED THEM TO RESPOND ON CAMERA TO THE HARVARD STUDY. THEY DECLINED, BUT THEY DID OFFER US A WRITTEN STATEMENT. IN PART IS RESIDENTS NAOMI ORESKES SAYS SHE IS NOT ASHAMED TO BE CALLED AN ACTIVIST, BECAUSE SHE CONSIDERS HERSELF TO BE BOTH AN ACTIVIST AND A SCHOLAR, AND SHE DOESN'T SEE THOSE TWO THINGS AS CONTRADICTORY, WILLIAM.

>> MILES, DOES EXXON OFFER ANY EXAMPLES THAT CONTRADICT THIS STUDY?

>> THEY DO OFFER TWO EXAMPLES FROM THE YEAR 2000, TWO OP-ED PIECES WHICH SEEM TO EMBRACE THE OVERALL SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS. BUT THAT'S ALL THEY OFFERED SPECIFICALLY.

>> OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS COMING IN THE MIDST OF EXXON FIGHTING ALL OF THESE OTHER LEGAL BATTLES ABOUT ITS MESSAGING ABOUT CLIMATE EXCHANGE CHNG. HOW IS THIS STUDY GOING TO IMPACT ANY OF THAT?

>> WELL, EXXON IS, INDEED, FIGHTING OFF A LOT OF LEGAL CHALLENGES RIGHT NOW. SHAREHOLDERS HAVE SUED THE COMPANY CLAIMING ITS PUBLIC STATEMENTS DISMISSING THE RISKS OF CLIMB CHANGE WERE MATERIALLY FALSE AND MISLEADING. A CLASS ACTION SUIT FILED BY EXXON EMPLOYEES CLAIMS THE COMPANY OVERSTATED THE VALUE OF ITS ASSETS, DRIVEN IN PART BY ITS FAILURE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE IMPACT OF CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE VALUE OF ITS RESERVES. ATTORNEYS GENERAL GENERAL IN NEW YORK, IN MASSACHUSETTS, ARE PROBABLY WHETHER EXXON LIED TO INVESTORS, AS IS THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION. GEOFFREY SUPRAN AND NAOMI ORESKES SAY THEY'RE NOT MAKING JUDGMENTS ON SPECIFIC LEGAL ISSUES, BUT IT IS HIGHLY LIKELY THIS SCIENTIFIC TAKE ON THE POLITICS OF CLIMATE CHANGE WILL BE INJECTED INTO THE LEGAL PROCESS, WILLIAM.

>> ALL RIGHT, AS ALWAYS, MILES O'BRIEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME, WILLIAM.

>> Brown: FINALLY, A BRITISH ROCK STAR WITH A NEW TAKE ON THE BIRTH OF ROCK AND ROLL. JEFFREY BROWN HAS THE STORY. ♪ ♪

>> Brown: BILLY BRAGG FIRST ROSE TO FAME AS A PUNK ROCK AND FOLK MUSICIAN IN THE EARLY 1980S. ♪ ♪ NOW NEARING 60, HE'S STILL SINGING HARD-EDGED SONGS OF PROTEST AND PASSION, HERE RECENTLY AT THE BIRCHMERE MUSIC HALL IN ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA. ♪ ♪ IN A NEW BOOK: "ROOTS, RADICALS AND ROCKERS" HE'S ALSO LOOKING BACK TO AN EVEN EARLIER, LESSER KNOWN BUT IMPORTANT MOMENT IN MUSIC HISTORY... ♪ ♪ ...WHEN A POP STAR NAMED LONNIE DONEGAN AND OTHERS TOOK BRITAIN BY STORM IN THE MID-50S WITH A PHENOMENON CALLED SKIFFLE MUSIC.

>> WHAT DONEGAN DOES, HE'S THE FIRST BRITISH ARTIST TO GET IN THE CHARTS PLAYING A GUITAR, AND HE BEGINS THE PROCESS OF TURNING BRITISH POP INTO A GUITAR-LED MUSIC FOR TEENAGERS. AND THE GUITAR BECOMES A KIND OF WAY THAT YOUNGSTERS EXPRESS THE FACT THAT THEY'RE DIFFERENT FROM THEIR PARENTS. AS THE GUITAR BECOMES THAT WAY THEY START TO TRY AND MAKE THE FUTURE HAPPEN. ♪ ♪

>> Brown: THEY DID IT, THOUGH, BY LISTENING TO THE PAST, TO SKIFFLE'S ROOTS IN AFRICAN- AMERICAN CULTURE, INCLUDING TRADITIONAL NEW ORLEANS JAZZ AND THE GREAT AMERICAN FOLK AND BLUES MUSICIAN HUDDIE LEDBETTER, KNOWN AS LEAD BELLY. ♪ ♪ LONNIE DONEGAN HAD A HIT IN 1956 WITH LEAD BELLY'S "ROCK ISLAND LINE," AND BRITISH KIDS PICKED UP CHEAP ACOUSTIC GUITARS, HOMEMADE TEA CHEST BASSES, AND WASHBOARDS TO PLAY SOMETHING AKIN TO AMERICAN JUG BAND OR ROCKABILLY MUSIC. BRAGG SAYS IT WAS A TURNING POINT FOR BRITISH CULTURE, STILL COMING OUT OF ITS POST-WAR DEPTHS.

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♪ ♪

>> Brown: AMONG THOSE YOUNG MEN: 14 YEAR OLD JAMES JIM PAGE, HERE ON THE BBC WITH HIS SKIFFLE BAND. ♪ ♪ JIMMY PAGE WOULD LATER BECOME ONE OF ROCK'S BIGGEST STARS AS THE GUITARIST FOR LED ZEPPELIN. AND HE WAS HARDLY THE ONLY ROCKER TO START OUT IN SKIFFLE.

>> VAN MORRISON WAS 12, YOU KNOW? GEORGE HARRISON WAS 13 WHEN HE SAW DONEGAN. McCARTNEY, 14. LENNON, 16.

>> Brown: THOSE ARE BIG NAMES LATER ON.

>> YEAH, YEAH. TEENAGERS, WHEN THEY SAW THAT, THEY KNEW THAT THIS WAS THE FUTURE. THAT THEY NEEDED TO GET AHOLD OF ONE OF THOSE GUITARS. THE SALES OF GUITARS, ACOUSTIC GUITARS, THAT IS, WENT FROM 5000 IN ONE YEAR, TWO TO THREE YEARS LATER TO 250,000 GUITARS IN A YEAR. AND THEY'RE ALL-- IT'S NOT A SCENE. THEY'RE PLAYING IN BACK ROOMS AND CHURCH HALLS. BUT IT'S WHAT THEY DO SUBSEQUENTLY, WHEN THEY'RE 20, 25, THAT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

>> Brown: JOHN LENNON AND PAUL MCCARTNEY'S FIRST GROUP, THE QUARRYMEN" STARTED AS A SKIFFLE BAND. ♪ ♪ THE REST, AS THEY SAY, IS HISTORY. AS YOUNG BRITISH MUSICIANS PLUGGED IN, THREW OUT THE OLD- TIMEY SKIFFLE SOUNDS TO CREATE THEIR OWN, AND BROUGHT THAT BACK ACROSS THE ATLANTIC, IN THE BRITISH INVASION.

>> FROM JANUARY 1964 TO DECEMBER 1965 THERE'S A BRITISH GROUP AT NUMBER ONE IN THE AMERICAN CHARTS FOR 52 WEEKS OUT OF 104. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM BEGINS AS A SKIFFLE GROUP. THE ONLY EXCEPTION IS PETULA CLARK, BUT EVERYONE ELSE: CHAD AND JEREMY, THE ROLLING STONES, THE TREMELOES, THE ANIMALS ALL HAVE THEIR ROOTS IN SKIFFLE. SKIFFLE LIBERATES THOSE BANDS TO GET OUT THERE AND PLAY MUSIC AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE THAT WHEN THE BEATLES BREAK THE CHARTS IN AMERICA IN JANUARY ¡64, THERE'S A WHOLE COHORT OF BRITISH BANDS WHO'VE BEEN PLAYING FOR YEARS, WHO ARE READY TO GO. AND IT TAKES AMERICAN YOUTH A LITTLE LONGER TO CATCH UP.

>> Brown: SKIFFLE GAVE THEM THE MEANS, THE SOMETHING, TO GET UP WITH A GUITAR.

>> IT'S THE SENSE OF EMPOWERMENT THAT CAME WITH SKIFFLE OT VERY YOUNG PEOPLE, TO MAKE THEM THINK THEY CAN MAKE THEIR OWN MUSIC. TO NOT WAIT FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO MAKE IT. THAT'S A VERY SIMILAR IMPULSE TO PUNK ROCK. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT DROVE THE BEATLES AND ALL THOSE OTHER BANDS TO WRITE THEIR OWN MATERIAL. ♪ ♪

>> Brown: FOR HIS PART, BILLY BRAGG HAS CONTINUED TO WRITE HIS OWN SONGS WHILE ALSO WORKING WITHIN TRADITIONS OF THE PAST. HIS MOST RECENT ALBUM, "SHINE A LIGHT," WITH THE AMERICAN SINGER-SONGWRITER JOE HENRY, WAS LARGELY RECORDED IN RAILWAY STATIONS AROUND THE U.S. ♪ ♪ AND AT THE BIRCHMERE CONCERT, BRAGG OFFERED A BEAUTIFUL VERSION OF A WOODY GUTHRIE SONG. ♪ ♪ BUT WHEN I ASKED ABOUT HIS OWN COMING-OF-AGE, SKIFFLE-STYLE MOMENT, HE TURNED TO HIS PUNK ROCK ROOTS.

>> THE CLASH.

>> Brown: THE CLASH?

>> SAW THE CLASH WHEN I WAS 19, ME AND SOME FRIENDS OF MINE HAD BEEN REALLY INTERESTED IN BANDS LIKE DR. FEELGOOD AND THE JAM, IT WAS STRIPPING IT BACK. AND IT SEEMED TO, IT'S ONE OF THOSE WATERSHED MOMENTS. IT'S LIKE WHEN THE SKIFFLERS HEARD DONEGAN AND HAD THAT IT'S THAT SORT OF ABILITY TO MAKE YOUR OWN CULTURE THAT CAME WITH PUNK ROCK THAT REALLY KEEPS ME GOING. THAT'S WHY I THOUGHT I COULD SIT DOWN AND WRITE A BOOK ABOUT SKIFFLE, RATHER THAN WAIT FOR SOMEONE TO ASK ME. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> AND WE THOUGHT WE KNEW ALL ABOUT ROCK 'N' ROLL. SO THAT'S THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT.

>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

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>> THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU. Captioning sponsored by NEWSHOUR PRODUCTIONS, LLC Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org

>> Rose: WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM. IT IS THE END OF SUMMER AND AS WE PREPARE FOR THE NEXT SEASON, WE BRING YOU SOME OF OUR FAVORITE CONVERSATIONS HERE ON CHARLIE ROSE. TONIGHT, JUSTICE STEPHEN BREYER DISCUSSES THE LAW AND THE SUPREME COURT.

>> THE MOST I CAN DO IS MY BEST, AND I THINK ALL OF US, SINCE I HAVE BEEN THERE, EVERY ONE OF US HAS REALLY TRIED TO DO HIS OR HER BEST. I MEAN, YOU'RE PUTTING OUT, AND AS YOU GET OLDER, THAT BECOMES A PRIVILEGE. MORE AND MORE. YOU HAVE A JOB WHERE YOU CAN GO IN EVERY DAY AND YOU JUST HAVE TO DO YOUR BEST, AND THEN YOU SAY, OVER TIME, YOU BEGIN TO THINK, WELL, I'VE SEEN THESE CASES BEFORE. BE CAREFUL, YOU HAVEN'T REALLY. THEY'RE NOT QUITE THE SAME AS WHAT YOU SAW BEFORE.

>> Rose: STEPHEN BREYER FOR THE HOUR, NEXT.