1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-26; Part 4 of 5

it's it's been been crazy he also said at one point i don't know about the recession that something and i don't know i knew that there was a

squabble going on the train or houston and representing the white house and the fbi accused in the top three on a number of occasions about the matter i knew that mr mitchell when i talked with him about a photo op on the women i met with him those opposed to it i think what hurt mitchell and i decided was the best course was to do the minimum amount possible now that might satisfy people that something was being done and that was to create it is possible that one of two things either there could've been a recession by the president the word of which decision

you never see that's a possibility here the fate of the memorandum i stand and then i might have that same night ricotta mr houston was still trying to do something about this even after i said that memorandum to interior question and it's very possible that i would not have been aware of that there was the world of a recession it's also possible it was a recession and i was aware and for approval i was at a general awareness that you know i said i would go see what you can do to get this plan implemented lives of financial interests is there you do first

what could you tell us committee and you're your own words of any other contacts that you have with internal security division allen and so far is as information that could be it could have a political that did you have any contact with insurance through the vision to sell as i mentioned in my statement there was a continual request for information regarding demonstrations and particularly information that would embarrass individuals in connection with their relationship with demonstrators were demonstrating leaders demonstrations have any information i mean in my files it's impossible for me to remember what it might be did you have any direct contact with

vision five the fbi invasion five years of division i knew mr sullivan but i don't recall having any contact with him when he was at the internal security debate where the cia is out now when the metropolitan police i talked with him in connection with demonstrations i had a number of conversations with the metropolitan police in fact i had on my own i had a number of private law it would go directly to the man they were concerned with dealing with demonstrations there was one that went to the defense department there was one that went to the justice department and to the what i should call the old it i knew him and which didn't become operational among the speakers

and demonstrations military intelligence information from these entities which was of a political make sense of information and demonstrations that you were something that should be applied to all sides but that could be useful politically senator i would like to be able to tell you the committee might want to go through my files and see what's in there that would answer the question because i have not destroyed any documents than anything i received would be there lock up in the basin and white house let's move onto your comments on page

fourteen were you refer to your conversation with morning until almost hear more later that i learned the reason for more interested in the present social conversation begun to see the president get instructions regarding the disposition of wiretap law and white house staffers are suspected of leaking the substance of your conversation the conversation the fact that we're going to visit a friend i was

there for and i waited for him to have this meeting he did not come after the meeting occurred and then it was in recounting the fact that our visit with this when i'm doing it you have them in ireland conversation in my memory i didn't say having your statements and say i had occasion to raise a question about the fall of nineteen seventy two was it

i asked what it was again it wasn't something that was sort of the moment of that time magazine inquiry but it was a reference to something about the newsman then on the rumor mill at the white house for some time and it's this fact that they're the white house instructed a surveillance of white house staff members in the middle east and i don't know you know then comes february twenty seven twenty thirteen this year and to

paraphrase your destiny to get a replacement position find out about the leaks the fbi wrote in time magazine story you interviewed yourself and so that's correct i would you describe the nature of that we were true believers direct confirmation he told me you know you really wanna know and i said yes i think i should know and he told me that yes that had occurred and said that bill sullivan has all the facts honestly was involved in those all those facts i felt that he knew how to lead news that he didn't have any idea ivanhoe sullivan and over the miles and he

did come to my office and i said i do it's engrained in the press office regarding this and i have some information that had happened and i wonder what the facts were and what he saw and then recount of the fact that he had been involved in this and told me that he had at one point the most trusted people and the washington field office to undertake a function that subsequently when director hoover was trying to get copies of the even before that it was destroyed removal of use

and given to martin and martin had possession of them apparently at the time he went to the west coast to get instructions as to what has to be with the leverage players were caught with a story there you you are informed earlier nineteen seventy two by midmorning that he has in his possession that is correct in nineteen seventy three davies

you know there's a lot of money much of the conversation now and i recall discussing his love and also who else knew about this and he told me that he thought that hoover at quote any mention the name of the person and i cannot recall at this time and this place in turn had mentioned that he understood the governor rockefeller and about rockefeller turned over kissinger also in dealing with witnessed the fall i asked him if he had any idea how it heavily because there was concern as to what the source of the story was it was

like that mr sullivan indicated you some reason why are several persons from the white house when i when i was doing was he didn't seem to know the final disposition of the logs and we didn't discuss whether the largely gone over to the white house at that time during the time they were the the wiretaps were being taken but you know i'm not talking about the final disposition of the law but rather wears summaries of a lot of it went to the time that they were being done remember that yeah

that is the impression i have it i have until sometime before after mr martin left the department of justice and went to the something had to be done very important thing for the white house i was never clear on exactly what was done at the white house oh geez refugee agency i have never quite clear

as i think it's element of the recall i was most interested in how the league because mr melton told me in fact that happened i was a course where the attacks occurring because of the information that martin had given me and i don't recall exactly when morty into leaders but i was really collective novel series of tidbits of information as much information the white house had come to me that's my immediate focus of the time i was in a cell that was how in the world we're going to deal with the story of a recent time magazine and after i collected information out of a collective know i call eloquent and so when the virus

and he said the night the dj who revere the summaries of a lot of nurseries for years on the seventh it would be fair for me is the substance of that conversation well but solomon oh very close and when we're through this is only option to control video with the other

yes he was as i mentioned that in my statement when i had mentioned to the president that i've met mr solomon he had alluded to other activities by the fbi over the preceding years and several times within a minute the fbi and it is it's a classified document by mr sullivan himself napoleon is going to happen because i did work at the handover vote by putting my record stood in my statement i

mention all of the attention the committee and that committee is certainly welcome to have that document is there any other uses that you made before the white house made of the fbi on matters such as that come here and become your recollection now i can recall began after the fact getting involved in a situation that volcano fbi investigation that was made of mr daniel schorr mr higby had suspended received a request for mr hollande is going to wreck the fbi to do an investigation of mr schorr our history

hoover proceeded with the investigation but tv this may at the white house and he did a sort of a full field wide open investigation and this became this but the white house and a rambling position to explain what had happened along insured explanation was that mr maliki who at the time knew nothing about this hasn't deterred is your host and in consideration you are going to use the fbi the

situation on the islands where the internal revenue service cia military intelligence secret service that i do recall when i mention in my statement a rather broad reference to the fact that intelligence came from surprising sources sometimes at one point one of the top officials at the va the secret service need a small intelligence regarding senator mcgovern and just left it with me said i thought this might be of interest to do with mr sen mcgovern attending a fund raising function i believe in philadelphia and there were some

things in the intelligence they've been to fact that either communist money or communist former communist supporters were going to attend the fundraiser i took the government with colson i said are you interested in this person who has given them enough to my files and he took it later told me he had made arrangements have a pub with out at a mr caulfield was that at all after me the year the white house i'm going to wear the reelection committee and from time to time he would send over to the information regarding individuals some of this might be reflected in my file because i can't recall ever doing anything with this information other than fighting this year my style

is leaving anything that we might call politically embarrassing information from the cia about an individual or straight classified documents regarding activities of some anti war demonstrators or people are not traveling the oil and things of this nature also about foreign funding domestic radical groups things of this nature which i would forget i had to consider a return to the us i think that you will find in either exhibit five or possibly maybe six weapons to some use of the internal revenue service and requesting information were dealing with situations

one of the authors should i did not deal directly with the situation i discuss with claudio i was oh mr walters who is the head of the internal revenue service and suggest that if you do anything about this is that in the internal revenue service is i believe he told me he was able to accomplish and are on the individual what the consequence of the other was i don't know who is the individual i do not recall for certain it was one of the i think one of the news de persons who work on a rather extensive article on mr bozo everything

i would hope i would hope that this thing would do just the refreshments recollection as to whether there is anything further the years been unable to come up for a white house i'm doing fine the other thing is and just briefly review my

question and in so much time does a subject that i confess i don't have every last bit of information on its a difficult one piece together and it's a very important part of its political he was receiving information from the internal security in nineteen seventy one so far as the mechanics are very rarely ministrations concern of the first that was taking on also the even though that particular unit did not involve itself and any illegal activity certainly the security arm for the united states government were in various instances that you recited utilized

for apprentices security agency you can set a matter of just be an fbi investigation of an individual or irs want to consider that the legal improper activities while security i don't know the icy and self repairing political ideal course known as significant documents other agencies were involved in seeking politically embarrassing information on individuals who were thought to be enemies of the white house mr

zimmerman was requested me it means to attack the enemies of the white house i was also maintain what was called an enemies list which was rather expensive and continually being updated this is i wonder if

banks in germany we mentioned there in yesterday's testimony about the ratings that were being given to mr samer attar is making public statements with respect to this situations involving a regular mortgage hour you please give me a little more information as to the intensity than three things i think that the intensity on the subject matter given point in time the one i've pointed out was the october tenth situation when this story began breaking it was mcmansion

la times fbi interview even though mr morgan right i'm referring specifically in the preseason with respect to how the responses which in may about white house involvement in the watergate affair as i said at the time

and it would take you in i noticed that the president also made some statements who are either president iran is making these statements with respect you at the white house on thursday press conferences of breaking up is prepared and a number of people contributed that breaking look at to dissipate questions that people who are from here with the press and that because of a question that the press my task force and around the various members of the staff suggested questions and ask for their suggestions answers these often go to several people oftentimes the watergate question would come to me

we think both would you say that to participate in most of the meetings where the president made a positive statements about the watergate affair i had a meeting with the president and now that's going to the statements made by the president i have here on august twenty ninth nineteen seventy two the president made a statement in addition to that announced that under my direction counsel to the president mr dean has conducted a complete investigation of all leads which might involve an even members of the white house or anybody in the government i can say

categorically that his investigation indicates that no one in the white house that no one in his administration was involved in this very bizarre insect now did you participate in that most are unaware of the president was the president telling the truth when they made that state well as i said in my statement yesterday i would've counseled the president against the statement and eyesight of the reasons i would've counseled the president gives a statement because of the knowledge i had as to the fact that documents have been destroyed on the fact that suspicions about other people as i said yesterday also if that were to be at a

liberal statement as to somebody being involved in a very particular incident which occurred on june seventeenth which the way it reads does not indicate that that had a really really was designed to do that i would've been interested in otherwise i think it was a little broad now the president may disagree that we have to pay as senator montoya shifting in the questioning from domestic intelligence back to the president's role the committee is broken for a floor vote in a moment your resume his examination of former white house counsel john dean public television's coverage of the watergate hearings will continue after a pause for a station identification on average coverage of these

hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs and public broadcasting service the and that continues its coverage of hearings about the senate select committee on

presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer as they go back now senator montoya is asking how the president got his information on watergate now i ask you about a press conference of october nineteen seventy two soundbite of press conference incidentally i conducted the investigation of his case i know that he's a very unpopular subject to raise in some quarters i conducted it was successful fbi did a magnificent job in that investigation involving the security of this country

was basically a sunday school exercise compared to the amount of effort that was put into this meeting or that i agreed with the amount of effort that was put into it i wanted every lead carried out to the end because i wanted to be sure that no member of the white house no man or woman in a position of major responsibility in the committee for reelection at anything to do with this kind of reprehensible activity now would you say that the president was correct in and making statements at that time i can say this wednesday we

clean and with this method fbi investigation in nineteen seventy president made another state i will simply say with regard to the watergate case that what i have said previously that the investigation conducted by mr dana white house counsel and which incidentally had an access to the fbi records on this particular matter because i directed him to conduct its investigation indicates that no one in the white house yet at the time we conducted the investigation that was last july

and august was involved or had not made of the watergate matter how has that great state so i don't like that like yesterday that came up i believe my meeting preceding his press conference and he said and believe that was march seventeenth and what's the second nineteen thirteen he was great been sitting on the fbi investigation that's right yesterday i couldn't use mine

you're welcome right now on april seventeenth nineteen seventy three the president said this i condemn any attempt to cover up in this case no matter who is in law you believe he was telling the truth on that date not sure we'd used it was well because he knew the full implications of the case and a long time and i was still resistance to stop ninety nine yet it was done

on april thirtieth we must maintain the integrity of the white house now and integrity must be really not passed that there can be no more white more at the white house is that red state people thirteen speech as i testified yesterday after it issued my statement and i would not be a scapegoat i had no contact with members of their staff how and when the president went on to camp david to repair it is is a major address which is the one you're referring to i have no way to get his message through i said would you please tell us in your own words do not give a

cosmetics speech and i asked him if he would do what he could to get the president to do this is a very violent ruin on may twenty second nineteen seventy three the president made yesterday with regard to the specific allegations that have been made i can and tuesday categorically wow i had no prior knowledge of the watergate operation i don't know what end all in iowa will file any subsequent efforts that may have been made to cover up what the three no time did i authorize any offer of executive clemency for the watergate defendants nor did i know of any such all for i did not know until that time of my own investigation

of any effort to provide the watergate defendants at no time did i attempt or did it authorize others to attend to implicate the cia in the watergate matter six it was not until the time of my own investigation but i learned that the bacon in the office of mr albert like that and i specifically authorize the creation of that information seven i neither authorize ninth at subordinates to engage in the illegal or improper campaign jacked now would you respond as though the correctness of this particular statement by the president you might miss it listen

i do not know i believe the president was aware of that come on the island is the particulars on september fifteen nineteen seventy two now as a i was renee montagne host

on the fifteenth thank you it depends and certainly the statement was issued on may twenty second nineteen seventy three and on march twenty thirteen everything i knew that one again

i can imagine there were seventeen twenty seven nineteen seventy three they have president directed that day you report to him regarding all watergate matters and would add of these instructions to endanger relay them to mr haldeman and mr he

is the president be so concerned about mr baldwin mr erlichman spending so much time away from their normal duties on watergate if that these people were not involved and he had no knowledge of any involvement on the part of these people or anyone in the white house and it would you say that because he had this now and he was expressing concern about the time expended by mr mr haldeman on this on this affair i would think that about me it is and it was the

region in other words it's a major themes were saying where's your supporters now fifty four he indicated own investigations turned on twenty first i had a conversation with the president on the thirteenth myself in which he mentioned the fact that he talked to colson and ehrlichman regarding clemency for mr hollande and also calls in january january order that he had been told me he had a president and that message was you can relate to mr bittman and then

mr what about that statement as a matter of fact there you did relay some information to a coffee you saw that he couldn't turn a such information to mr mccourt about clemency and when was this out did you not tell mr caulfield at that time that this promise of immunity was coming from somebody at the white house as a kid the question

but also there's what motivated you to tell you that he intended to go mr mccourt that the promise of immunity was coming from the very top of the white house it was a statement of that nature what authority do have what background or did you muster in justification for making a statement the most important mr cohen yes others

me too mr mccourt yeah the white house ms rosado conversations that he had with me mr o'brien was aware of it occurred to randall but the insurance is who is resisting and i informed him the procedure that had gone on and he was aware of the fact that the polls had given assurances to lester brickman who in turn on and get much cotton communicate these assurances also or the content of these assurances to mr mitchell solely in turn indoors which were doing

another word that mr mitchell new because he entered from you that the assurances had been given i don't know what happened in the first meeting of mr haldeman and mr erlichman had with director helms and gemma watters i was not given a specific report of what occurred in that meeting so i cannot testify with any firsthand on that and they were sometimes it didn't work on the arrangements to try to see it come into the picture and mollify the impact as the subsequent penalty

ucla i remember sex i yeah i made some references to as i recall with the president in a meeting in march but my only knowledge of presidential knowledge and there is a fierce debate and that is what the quote overly an immediate miles on either the twenty eighteen twenty nine to march of this year we were talking about the department of justice and i'd ask him to

do anything like this and he repeated the same here's number seven and i'm very supportive of illegal or improper accounting techniques i don't know i'm going to miss

press statements on june twentieth nineteen seventy two he made this statement which appeared in the washington post he told reporters in florida were with the president that he would not comment on a third rate burglary attempt now you agree with me that there are very very intense how would you characterize it ms buffett i would i guess i'd have to say to me

on october seventeen nineteen seventy two i was visiting this statement appeared in the new york times he told reporters this fall it goes without saying that this administration does not condone or espionage surveillance of individuals or sourced stories that making broad sweeping charges about the character of individual he also said michael i'm not going to comment on stories based on tuesday for innuendo or character assassination isn't all i am not going to dignify that with a come and go that would you say that the administration was engaged in their techniques such

as it were and then in the statement by mr steger at the time during the campaign of nineteen hundred seventy two i would say that these things did occur i would also save believe i mentioned in either of your question that the degree of weeping mary at times he was told another story i also would take me another two hundred pages of testimony to explain all those things i had not had an opportunity to go back through all of the briefings i saved it for every press

conference by mr ziegler and for every press conference by the president's available at the whitehouse answer every time she recorded a court reporter type situation i have not had access to that chairman i would like to ask you and counsel to subpoena the three things reading papers you also think the president is news summary is periodically with respect to commentaries about him on the news media are other media we're receiving i don't want to

summarize it and he's also the thing is and there is a risk take certain action of course in the possession of the white house i would like to make a similar request with respect to the news summary chairman on october sixteen nineteen seventy two

a statement in the new york times on october seventeenth statement that we just follow the opposition has been making charges which have not been substantiated would you say that yeah this is correct on october twenty fifth nineteen seventy to have another statement my messages he lived in the washington post return them the reports the post reports quote a blatant effort of that character assassination that i do not think theres been witnessed and a political process in sometime in october the twenty fifth nineteen seventy two the second one vote

sentiment i apparently was to compare john dean's testimony president nixon's remarks and documents the president was receiving about the watergate the committee recessed at this point for another ms ba