1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-26; Part 5 of 5

the pain mr thompson that the degree of <unk> breathing very at times he was told a story about me probably another two hundred pages of testimony to explain all of the great things i had not had an opportunity to go back through all of the briefings what would i help them on what a lot of them now do i understand you to say that they're there on everything paper is for every press conference by mr ziegler and for every press conference by the president's available at the white house yesterday recording reporter

type situation i have not had access to it that it is mr chairman i would like to ask you and counsel to subpoena the three things reading papers and you know the president is he you summarized periodically with respect to commentaries about him on the news media are other media very nice i don't want to summarize it and he's also

so a lot of action and in terms of the convention experimentation is of course in the possession of the white house i would like to make a similar request with respect to these new submarines chairman mao maybe on october sixteen nineteen seventy two a statement in the new york times on october seventeenth statement that we just follow the opposition has been making

charges which have not been substantiated would you say that if this is correct on october twenty five nineteen seventy two of another thing and my message is the european the washington post return them the reports the post report quote a blatant effort of that character assassination that i do not think theres been witnessed and the political process in sometime in late october the twenty fifth nineteen seventy two of deceptive un vote on senator mount tai apparently was to compare john dean's testimony president nixon's remarks and documents the president was receiving about the watergate the

committee recess at this point for another vote on the senate floor public television's complete coverage of watergate hearings continues after station identification an average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service the pope the pay

and ride continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert reich new

mexico senator joseph thai a law continues his question to form a presidential council those bridges back we've heard before the recess i was reading you an application that statement delivered by mr ziegler which appeared in the post the effect that he reported in turn a blatant different character assassination but i do not think has been

witnessed in the political process in some time going through the washington post reports now what it was in nineteen seventy two specifically which were we're evolving it started on october tenth time it reached the point of directly time industry are women on social issues and i can only assume that this is the year in nineteen seventy three in the washington post appeared a statement mr ziegler met with reporters and

said that all previous white house statements about the bugging work an artwork the president's statement today is the operative statement how can you tell us what motivated <unk> her to make this statement would transpire prior to the making of this game at the white house you know compare that statement to the chronology of my testimony you'll see that that was the weekend that the attorney general and mr peterson reporter of the president and the direction of the grand jury was headed in and the fact that i have been prosecutors have been revealed in the fact that i have told the prosecutors the involvement of others in this matter including those in the white house it was as a result of that and the president's statement of the seventeen when

he went on to explain further elaborate on the president's statement that he may be inoperative common and then the financial revenue adam felber a father son relationship and perhaps justifiably so on what day where the reasons for you going to estimates of office at the time that their message and at first presented his and then subsequently on for more than four when then there was a scaling down of the initial plan listening to there and what was your mission the meeting was going to be

did you have any instructions from the security men are doing well early on on the preceding year it had been my role to make sure that the reelection committee have the capacity to deal with demonstrators when i first got his job it explained that one of the responsibilities of his job will be to deal with demonstrators and security system and in particular the convention when he was a puppy that's it

discussion of that meeting that he would go there and intelligent planning with demonstrators subsequently when he met with mr gruber on december eighth he also said that he would develop leaders so you deal with that demonstrations demonstrators and the orchestration and the land was just say that they're your presence there was a followup low interest emanating first from the initial memorandum that you sent to mature about the year and agency who knows i wouldn't say there was any relationship between that memorandum an immediate no now at that danish a meeting i

understand in your testimony yesterday discussed a possible targets and mention the year dnc democratic national headquarters and the hotel and that mr mayer right now and what context july with these three tigers mentioned that i cannot recall for certain whether targets were discussed at the first meeting with the second meeting i have a meeting at the second meeting and i was reading while most of the meeting debated to close contacts when you voted with the set targets said discussed or political intelligence and there was a possible break into the democratic headquarters of fast that i'm not like the political intelligence

alone wouldn't you assume that that would involve a break in documents yes i think that's true frequently a campaign technique was used to that family people to one cause in the campaign headquarters of another it was an all spelled out one time and it would be targets for political intelligence well wouldn't you say that this was their coming very close to a discussion of what later became known as watergate years now you indicated that that mr mitchell and the president met frequently to discuss campaign plans where did they meet other humans i

mean whether or not the president had with measles oh i have no idea of the inlet on this is mitchell was ever present any of these meals me they atlases at mitchell's home at the white house i believe she did a company attorney general what i could not tell you i with any specificity that she attended any meetings with the president and i was having a discussion with president reagan sent them has to be about the truth and my grandmother hearing and that went on i hurt credibility will be sustained by the american people are well or not the

president will be sustained or time that's why i'm asking you these specific questions about the reliability of the statement by the president that mr seeger and then buy a statement that you've made in your testimony yesterday now they're i have one ally only that's the truth as i know and i can speak it and i realize the implications when i talk about the president but my one ally is the truth now i have that red bridge comments and i have become fully cognizant devon airports which have been made to discredit her testimony before this committee in recent days one of which was the release of information leading with your work obtaining forty eight hundred dollars

from the cash the other was the leaking out by forces unknown with respect to an allegation in a report that you had applied in concert with others for a television lessons while you were working on this has been this morning and i when i go into the authenticity of this but did it ever occur to you that there you had gone through the complete checkup before you employed by the department of justice before you employed by the white house and that this information necessarily had to turn in europe over our dossier collected by the fbi and that you had to either explain it or really explain

what every allegation was made with respect to the tv licence percent i'm well aware of that because when i was first interviewed by mr coleman he had a copy of my fbi report from the justice department and i gather from his review of the fbi report that this material was in the fbi reports it has made recent comments on and i talk about the fact that i got a lot more personality than anything else good morning facts and that i had not pursued the matter because it'd been retracted later and i was satisfied with that so this was revealed in this obviously was investigated by the fbi

before i went to the justice department originally and then subsequently caribbean to the white house so apparently this was picked out of context and then released by someone you have any conjecture about that i didn't understand or questions or so apparently the allegation that you had applied for a tv licence in conjunction with others while you were i enjoyed in writing was a similar application you have made me this allegation was apparently kicked out of context from the file by someone that is correct that was leaked to remember the person reported only would you think of me what is your opinion they were serious efforts

i'm quite aware of the fact that there are a number of investigators have been privately retained to visit friends visit stores it live in it run the gamut places where i think every conceivable inch of my life has been gone over senator obama thank you kelly over several days that's

right you are i've been just been afraid to go to get over recent homosexuality that was one of my lawyers say has been a pivotal character assassination technique out there have been efforts to say that i received a hundred thousand dollars and raising campaign money there's no truth to that whatsoever and there's no conceivable way they are substantiated and listen well how long did you know mr mabey

before he was hired by the committee to reelect president i didn't know it until i have it i may have met him once was part of johnson's a rather large meeting when i was in the deputy attorney general's office out of a program called operation intercept which i was not directly involved in the drug program i understand mr libby was involved in that and when it became once at the white house he had referred to the fact that now i don't want cholera the first time i really was in late october when i began talking about whether or not all in the general counsel position at the reelection committee i was unaware of its activities but with a plumber i only know them in a dispute with his employer

and the exchange between the white house and the treasury department like for the white house intervening in this dispute and hiring <unk> remember the white house and it's called the treasury department so when was the first time that you knew about masturbating mr hunt working together i don't really realize after a break i was working nineteen

seventy two so it was like after the fact that the working together that and the fact that we're using them around the white house are working together on about their manager there were in nineteen seventy two an upset it now and then when you were having discussions with mr libby at these voip oddity ever tell you about that his activities other than being chief counsel for the crp and mischel believes that you went over there my responsibility with him was to give him very aware of the election laws he had not had any experience in this area and for my staff that they should

cooperate with him assist him i made my files available regulations who says that well nothing of his duties as chief counsel were you aware that he was performing other duties one of the great mysteries it was mr

needham nothing and he was going to mention security well now once you well and a curious as to what happened to the scaled down plan which involved the expenditure of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars which was discussed by mr mitchell must insure yourself an estimated twenty four for every ford well after reading only twenty seven i was finally released on given the precedent would have been before the operation sandwich that mr michel even

reconsider the matter and i think he expected when when the media's reconvene at something totally different and it was and it was like a minute meeting late and it was the same kind of discussion going on my cell and terminated the meeting when there are waivers to wear that the scaled down plan had been approved minister michel as i left but i have never asked mr mitchell directly whether he approved the plan are not exactly june nineteenth i was having conversation with mr mcgregor he indicated to me mr mitchell had authorized the plan that he indicated also that job at the white house was a recipient of the information and he indicated that pressure from the white house it was never

clear what had happened well the daily conversations with mr strong who was the emissary one is on between these european mr alderman war i disappointed him up and the question was this morning at one point mr strong me and told me that mr mcgregor <unk> had a serious falling out and i believe that reverberate with me that he just could not work with strong and courtney you said what should i do and i said i have no idea but i would suggest none of their personality and personnel mr martin that was my recommendation is just wrong and it was only later that i heard that you could move from the reelection committee to the finance committee well have you become aware of since the re enact an estimate gooder was

transmitting memoranda to mr strong to this drought month conversation i had with mr strong no on may nineteen fifty and destroying documents that indicated he was transmitting this information back to the white house mr haldeman destroy these documents if he did he was not aware and still profess is an awareness of anyone at the white house being in albany what i think is for a fair trial to june seventeenth was said before sen publicly it's but the truth was coming out and would you say that they knew of any correlation of events in view of skiers

transmissions between the crp mr alterman you have the admission by mr jan brewer of that he was sending this memorandum to mr alderman as well as to mr rickman about that all these things that mr haldeman as well as mr erlichman were fully aware what wisdom that his role was with respect to collecting intelligence and with respect to the possible plan of breaking into the dnc and the government orders are out the o'brien suite at miami during the democratic convention you've brought a rather broad conclusion but i would say this that i think that anything that was transmitted mr strong mr strong man anything of any import it came to his attention

he would write a report in a stroller and i can only assume that the trilogy minister strong was reported on the problem and only assume from your testimony and what has been abused before this committee here before by other witnesses that <unk> haldeman and mr eriksen we're very precise in the missions that they undertook and an exacting performance by those june they made assignments of missions wouldn't you say that's a correct statement and in view of that is it carry out is it yours a position and there was no way that mr bolton or mr clickbait ignorance of any part of the involvement on the part of the crp mr daley or any other personal connected with a crp in the year

before the war the incident on a very important ms berman and they're reporting that information knowing the information information a conversation about this they were very close when that when you say they conversed a very warmly very frankly with each other

then did you were up almost a coffee you in january of nineteen seventy two when you want to rise in him to deliver a message to the court did you estimate that then to say to record and i quote a year is a long time your wife and family will be taken care of you will be rehabilitated with employment when this is over and the court you say that yes i did that as a result of a conversation in which i live in the west coast and i was in my office i call him he transcribed the gist of what i was saying is that to me later that is largely what it was that i said to him and i told him five minutes when he should report

now when you discussed a cover up with respect to watergate and san clemente to these meetings take place at the home of the president not serve sample many as a general term for a situation where the president's residence is located in one place and then there is a space at the morning meeting on me the canister rounds office this is what i describe as we were assessing the various members of this committee i was from there we went to lunch we had lunch at the nothing is happening

the regulations because it was south to africa and met later and mr hollands well mr sweet with an elitist that work for many hours a situation that we met him the next day and discuss this matter for many days give me to give me the danes of those meetings and give me some fans of the conversations that took place with respect to the cover and at the individuals whom i described these conversations trust the conversations were actress and general discussion

of all theories on how to deal with this committee in other words there would be a public park or cooperation and i believe we would make it as difficult as possible in an investigative materials and witnesses there be an effort to discredit the committee but they needed bipartisan through a behind the scenes of media effort there was also discussion on how to to make sure that there were raised also the problems that the democratic party might have been engaged in but that one time there was nothing specific race we were hoping to find things that at one point in the conversation it was suggested would hire private investigators mr holmes justice i raise the fact is more political surveillance and that's the last thing in the world we need then i think that you

know whether or not us is the watergate and three you know whether or not these yet at the white house or anyone else under auspices of ad he was hired to conduct the gathering intelligence our patients are invasions of the right of privacy of individuals i only know of the fact that he's a mighty indirectly that have no firsthand knowledge about you know whether or not no and yes and was which you've mentioned are any eavesdropping through electronic devices no sir

fb in one respect the beauty is it possible blocking are impeding out the senate investigation that the white house at any time there were certain things submissions i think it was a joy now when you i mean fonda made to get out of the

country who had instructed you to do this and what conversation actually took place friday you're informing this committee to get on this this occurred on monday the nineteenth june nineteen seventy two it was a late afternoon meeting and mr gonzales with mickelson the first question before the meeting and at any substance was raised by mr ortman has to punt was he asked me and i said i have no idea yet nicholson and mickelson listener comments i was going to get out of the country it was short time after that i didn't think about it that often related there was a brief discussion between myself in a discussion

well fifteen twenty minutes and i don't know when was the first they're real meaning to organize the cover and who was present at that person i think that the cover up is somewhat similar to be planning i know that when i came back from out of the country all right we had begun that in place and was going to information that you have with respect to the involvement of any officials in the white house on that initial stage of

a cover up well on monday the ninth inning information i think both the iranian nation that morning you advise the president about the authority that might exist under mall for the covert activity that was two and so as a result of the organization nothing i wasn't involved in the establishment with plumbers and was somewhat by accident that i was talking with bud krogh like noam well and was partially responsible for my coming to the white house made a fact when i realized

at the time an operation that was seeking to determine major leagues invited me down a cd and he said we have a a new sensor security system and it might actually seen it so i went down and look at it and sort of member phone and that was about the senate who is the younger of executive privilege as far harbour well i wouldn't say that there was a a conscious decision at any point in time too it was always coming up it began the

cue uses it it was it's mid september early october that was the only congressional problem arose was doing great parents when my name and moved to the forefront that we began discussing using are litigating with the issue of executive privilege possibly been the strongest and these were in discussions i had with the president words if you're litigating the matter with mr dane there would be no other witnesses from the white house are you having a treatment this moderate on immigration hall

center mongolia has interrupted his questioning of john thain is the committee takes a break for one more vote on the senate floor public television's complete coverage of the watergate hearings will continue after a pause for a station identification on a great coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service the pope fb

and pike continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer

democrat joseph montoya continues his interrogation of former white house counsel john dean mr dean right with respect to his committee on page two hundred and twenty five at the white house to try to get mr mitchell to accept the blame for the entire affair that can you tell me who the prime mover on this attempt was at the white house it was at the

time the sport was discussed as for the implications it was early discussion recalled one particular incident occurred outside of the president's office before he went into a meeting i said there are two options or secondly at the white house and others around south of wagons instead of protecting itself and the roost themselves when discussions in it with the president when it was appalling and we i was arguing the book re imposed at be disclosed but the reservoir when he thought about

that if we really knew of the pre situation proposal might call it i didn't believe that and it was really when president obama came back to california the early discussions of this concept that we're going to a firm policy so i also mentioned that there was a meeting on the twenty second or mr mitchell came down i had assumed at that time mr altman we're going to do something to try to bring mr mitchell ford on this issue because of the earlier discussions didn't help he was making and mr mitchell report that didn't seem to be any

problem there were gentle discussions again about the status of the white house is at this committee on executive privilege to win analyst to repeat of the same thing that occurred on several previous occasions and so i really can't say and that policy of all until after california there were times in california i don't know that i wasn't in california went on that i'm aware of another situation where mr colson and mr shapiro came to me with at thirteen and which calls laid out the theory that

mr mitchell should be a smoked out of this might result little problem did you hear any discussions that by mr haldeman ehrlichman with respect to the same thing i guess i didn't factor in a conversation with mr ms amato it went one time i recall and it was as it had been planned mr mitchell would come down that saturday i believe it now in the earlier strong feelings for mr mitchell why didn't you uprising of this move by the white house i'm going on the prosecutors but this time and was in discussions with the prosecutors it was trying to avoid any situation in

fact i was having discussions with the government about the entire situation and i believe it one time when mr o'brien was going to california to me with this suggestion of mr mitchell that he do so but that this could well be a setup situation but i did not have a private moment because i myself was dealing with the government and i had stopped the cover and i was no longer important now you wear all throughout human beings with respect to this affair and the implications that day you might get the charge war with a violation of law or obstructing justice think about it directly

after the election when mr solomon we had a discussion about a written the report he asked me what would happen if all the facts were laid out i told him what would happen and i said that i thought that ultimately and reconvene grand jury which would occur if the facts were what in the law i'm asking this question how do you expect us to resolve the truth in this matter when you stake once during the test fired here and major self centered cross examination and the president states another story and he does not appear before this committee i'm not implying these you know how do you expect us to resolve this can you give us any information as to how we might resolve it

i think there is the truth always americans and also be during these hearings and will be as a result of the other activities that the special prosecutor through the process of history but the truth is it is unusual and i must just here's what the president had any individual or i have a difference of opinion or difference between the fact that individual this is a current ones in my early meetings with the prosecutor's i'm quite willing to submit myself on any version of that with any individual but there remains you change

ends and coming out with the truth of this matter related it was after the first year that i had serious reservations as the watergate cover up continue i'm a statement from june nineteenth on i'm not a very pleasant day in my life this is an ongoing situation september when i began talking with my now wife about getting married i told her somewhere down the road can get very rough situation because that i didn't explain it to her because i just realized that something like this could not go on indefinitely and one point i reached the end the line and just

decided i couldn't continue and i just didn't have the constitution internally to proceed what was going on and so i decided to start running the other way you know these emerging now about what you've done mr in disclosing everything that you know you have peace of mind and your conscience and i one out of what i'm going to ask you do you feel better now that you've told everything rather than it it's a very difficult thing to do if i think if that were to be perpetuated i

wasn't capable of doing that and i knew that my baby was not fall these babies has been about half built the second day of john dean after a full day of questioning the members of the urban committee seen as undecided as before about how much credibility of former white house counsel deserves chief counsel sendak has already said that he's looking forward to his chance to question being a second time and senators urban and baker are still awaiting their terms john dean will be with us at least another day and there's at least a chance he will be the only watergate witness of the week the possibility that would prompt still more pressure on the committee's plan to finish this round of hearings by the beginning of august stephen hess is a former advisor to president nixon and john kramer greenlaw expertise on the low faculty at

georgetown university law school here in washington are with us now salmon that it did get a little tedious there toward the end but would you characterize this as a completely last day when ethan and i don't think it was completely lost but i think that could be assessed it down to about half an hour a worthwhile news i think we're doing three things for mr lane's testimony that everything's changed the shape of a little bit what he had said yesterday first lady did changed seemed to make well he indicated about the president's knowledge knowledge about you said before but the president wasn't fully aware of the implications and they he said what he meant was his human patients what might happen to the members of the white house staff around but he did indicate that he was pretty certain that the president was aware of the legal implications of the cover a second added it he did qualify today witnesses he'll apparently from his point you had no conclusive the water whatsoever in the cover up he was just told things did not know they were untrue in fact he said that at one time he requested

permission to break ziglar and was denied that permission from my job and the third good news with respect to the cover up self mr peters and yesterday seemed to be involved in seven or eight incidence of helping the white house throughout the process was again not involve not complicity and was seen to be doing its job properly and yet as a result of yesterday's testimony that implication was a lot about henry peterson write that even more than cooperate verizon attractive the tougher question seemed to put them in a much better life now is that it's over which allows what's your assessment assessment is that rarely has something that is so potentially dramatic and so quickly turned into constant boredom is the testimony of john dean at the hands of the senate's ervin committee those statements of mr dean that were ambiguous yesterday were made ambiguous today i can use to dean's credibility is not that affected one way or the other by today's five the

cross examination teams allegations have no more no more no less weight than they had when he made them yesterday and things charges are highly serious they deserve or care for more assistance group nave in the senate gave them today and i have high hopes given statements by senator baker in a way that tomorrow will be a much more successful day in the senate chamber joe one the course yesterday when mr dane was reading his very long statement over two hundred and forty pages it went on for a long long time but did you find yourself today to pick up on your point just as wishing that they had started at page one and gone all the way back through that's their question so there would have been some continuity two to the cross examination of that would you call it well i certainly did i was thrown off by each senator going off in his own direction senator why cruz seemed to be an interesting tension but nevertheless and i was interested to particularly in the question is

centered on one play as john kramer has pointed out earlier at how it was set up to actually set mr dean to give a verbatim transcript caught up into little sections of what he said yesterday was an amazing performance of repeating words to work for were written statement that he had yesterday given to the committee okay of course it's not over yet and we'll see what happens tomorrow when the rest of the health committee does cross examine mr dane very much and back are fun and peter carey got a close look at those secret papers from john dean say most of them are now part of the committee's record that we're not red publicly after examining the documents peter filed this report the celebrated dean papers were released today and he proved to be something of a fizzle first of all because the best of them have been published in the new york times last june seventh they were published in a related to suggestions by tom houston and a very jenkins the fbi and other

agencies to get into sort of a super intelligence gathering agency that wiretapping mail surveillance undercover activities on campus in the military be stepped up by the federal government on behalf of the white house and also quite a bad shot by mr houston against then fbi director j edgar hoover the rest of the rest of the ones i saw were really rather are anti climactic involve things like a plane hijacking and various other items of domestic security and how they lived in my opinion one of the top secret staff that have been placed upon them are this is probably interesting only in the context of postings by senator weicker today and others involving fbi involvement wiretapping of private citizens and are perhaps most interesting comment was made here on capitol hill away from the committee room was made by senator edward kennedy rejected a judiciary subcommittee meeting with the senators said was we cannot eliminate watergate mentality from our government to

eliminate the atmosphere of secrecy and which is fed and the specific tools of evasion and assembling which relies without nurturing opinion of my own i suspect if you will become increasingly popular robert and finally a note which puzzles me personally in human terms you are among millions of americans watching these hearings by day oh with us by night and according to the letters are written you're fascinated addicted losing your sleeper some even plane spotting her sex lives there was one individual we would expect to be even more curious than all the rest of us even more fascinated to hang on every word and that is the man at the center of the drama richard nixon yet affordability the white house spokesman the president has not had the curiosity even wants to turn on his television to watch the hearings deputy press secretary general of war and repeated that today and said mr nixon hadn't even watch the summaries and news programs instead he's content with written some ways the president is at san

clemente and plans to stay there through july before you said to be conducting business as usual it strains credulity a little to believe that he is so busy or so and different or so disciplined that you can resist the spectacle of his former employees spinning a web of evidence that each day draws closer to him it is mind boggling to be told that mr nixon didn't even watch john dean charge him in effect was systematically lying to the american people it's another strange piece of evidence about the personality of those most inscrutable politicians for jim lehrer peter kay and our guests i'm robert macneil that night for impact from washington you've been watching gavel to gavel videotape coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities as coverage is made possible by grants for special events coverage from the corporation for public broadcasting and the ford foundation and has been a production of unpacked a division of the greater washington educational

telecommunications association you're well oh in nw