1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-26; Part 3 of 5

it's big the region and i said he was you won and literally when the body of a meeting with mr bittman and vividly now looking to exhibit number forty three new testimony

of this that's also an interesting caldwell testimony presented yesterday it's a list of all of the people that you talk about a paintball an hour what they maybe that they violated is that correct that is correct as thought were the top of the list and that's in your own handwriting is a career this is a copy of what is the significance of the letters at the top lefthand corner of the cheat on you

senator reid and others remain raw the watergate break in the planned execution of those events are and you list in that category mr mitchell <unk> mr strong that you have to stop unless the majors name no stop i know mr bb and that's the worst source oxman an imminent stands outside of several names the list i said that my first reaction was

the lawyers involved here beside each layer with a little strong it's both as for japan my name is i was with my lawyer any significance to his daughter no i don't i don't know why

you have the rents says that other thing that happens is what what is that language on inspections which are sections you know it's funny five years and ten thousand dollars in five years and five thousand dollars investors want to master we the annotations the statue of a star which indicates that obstruction of justice the imagination of man to obstruct justice we are of significance and is it though than one

had violated those statutes and with beauty of those particular fences with chad five year sentence of ten thousand dollars in five years but it was being i have no further question at this point in time to counsel and senator tom agents set the pattern for questioning john dean they're checking his testimony and they're testing his credibility and that will continue appalachian recess public television's coverage of the senators will continue after a pause for a station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service the fb

group and that continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer

as the committee has gone back to order a senator lowell weicker stern opponent like that just being i like possible completely change gears from the testimony which again this morning and go right back to the beginning of your statement which made us we can put that its proper context is different and much of what was discussed this morning a later date yet i'm going to read your portions of your statement in order there might set the framework framework for the questions of gen x join me and this

according to your statement yesterday when i joined the white house staff in july of nineteen seventy one became fully aware of the extent of the concern of the white house regarding demonstrated demonstrations and intelligence information relating to demonstrators as the white house was informed about the project had been going on before i arrived to restructure the government's intelligence gathering capacity these are the demonstrators in the us craddock lyles domestic intelligence plans submitted in the document for the president committee has its possession a copy of the eichmann and certainly that memorandum pursuant to the order judge to read i want a former chairman of the committee says no apprehension here i do not intend to go into the memorandum nineteen seventy understand the other matters after i was told of the profession approve plan called

regarding bird rising milk a reason why i was instructed by hall them and to see what i could do to get the plan implemented i thought the plan was totally uncalled for and just before i talk with michal about the plan and he said he knew there was a great divide the white house to see the plan implemented but he gratefully with fbi director over who oppose a plan with one exception he thought that an interagency evaluation committee might be useful because it was not good to have the fbi standing alone without the information about other intelligence agencies and sharing of information is always good and avoid duplication after my conversation with mature memorandum requesting that the evaluation committee be established and restraints could be removed later i called one of the only way to proceed was one step at a time and this could be an important first that he agreed emergency evaluation committee it was created as i recall in early nineteen seventy one request to jack hall feel of an asylum officer to serve as the white house liaison to the

icu and cocktail of the white house with the loss of my staff servers liaison i'm unaware of the icy ever having engaged in any illegal assignments and certainly no such as simon is a request by my office reports from the icy or zombies reporter for the fallen and sometimes in addition to the intelligence reports from the icy my office also receive regular intelligence reports regarding demonstrators and radical groups from the fbi and on some occasions in the cia a member of my staff would review the material to the german official before the mr paul minn that is for bringing to the president's attention or center to another member the staff who might have an interest in the contents of the report and then you get the several examples into custody now on page fourteen of your testimony or rather the bottom of page thirty you refer to another incident that occurred it was not until almost a year or

more later i learned the reason for martins trip to see the president mr martin later paul minnesota conversation he had gone to see the president again instructions regarding the disposition of wiretap was a related to newsman and white house staffers who were suspected of leaking these lots of been in possession of muslims all and assistant director of the fbi were promised martins instructions from the president and i have occasion to raise a question about his was a road and during the fall of nineteen seventy two and he flatly denied to me that we have allies and not told that time and told my martini happen in about february twenty second twenty thirties your time magazine notified the white house has been frustrated the white house and taking wiretaps newsman and white house staffer requested a response white house press office notified me a listen great i call mr mark felt the fbi's confers what the facts were and secondly how such as directly veltroni that was true to solomon knew all the facts we had no idea how bleak i

then called the song requested that he dropped by my office which he did explain the government's handling of the word that's installed as i recall sullivan said they did not have the blessing of recruitment sullivan explained to me that all but one set of the lots have been destroyed and all the internal fbi records relating to the wiretaps except ones that have been destroyed or the material and delivery to mr martin sullivan departed i call mr mitchell who told me he also hadn't written time magazine in denied to time magazine any knowledge of the matter and not pressing further as to what he did and ivan called mr erlichman until about the forthcoming story out of my conversations without solving that mitchell also told a minute we have a lot more uniformly this time he admitted there are unsafe i asked him how much is emotionalism <unk> flatly denied her and i thank god december and so while now has been this sets the general framework for the areas of my entry this

afternoon the first question is that during the course of question by this committee mr mccourt state he went to the internal security division and chamber from john martin and joe lister information which she then they are brought back to the committee to reelect president and the senate among the various members of the committee to reelect are my first question to euros based upon a visit which i made shortly after mr mccourt is testimony to the internal security division and torture have witnessed martin and mr kevin running and it relates to the fact as to whether or not you know who authorized who authorized the release all of that information

through the region i don't know i don't cotton point because this was an arrangement that was worked out by mr martin before the department of justice to join the re election committee and over the arrangement releasing information from interest through division two the core was walk arrives one morning there's never came to your attention i don't i don't recall that it did it's my office did have dealings

i said with the internal security division i don't recall specifically something coming up i recall subsequent conversations mr martin there was a missionary this moment in times to martin is over the committee to re elect the president mr olson is at the head of the internal security division at your office have any dealings with mr olsen i don't believe mentors we're going to release and at a major case electronically obtained evidence under court order they would notify the white house that this procedure

when a major case was going on and a defendant would call or whether or not there was any electronics surveillance of his conversations at anytime the government decision to release this information it was a very political or sensitive case this matter be brought to the attention of three of the white house and mr olson were gentlemen for me that he was going to do this and communities in specific examples of cases that involve a kind of reasonably well i'm kind of i think it was more celebrating cases in connection with anti war demonstrators and i cannot recall any specificity and having not had an opportunity to go back to my files its chips rather difficult to an ominous thought the top is the fact the latina girl and mr

olson and kevin maroney our came to your office at least on one occasion maybe dollars that you know that we can discuss to give you information relative to the long foreign contributions yes i did but i recall i recall a conversation with them both about it i don't recall in my office for telephonics in which is i think i had always assumed that foreign contributions i've been asked by mr spencer one point would receive an eminent mostly when he was serving his council's finance committee indicating that this was a proper contribution to receive i had occasion to talk to mr olsen and mr roney about this and they had reached another conclusion they felt was not on their reading the foreign agents registration act

that unless the individual was an agent in fact another possible that such a contribution was not voluntarily of the photo why why would you seek such information from internal security division of the us or because they had jurisdiction over the law of contracts or any of the contacts that you have with the internal security division do you feel that information was applied to your office from internal security division that might have some sort of political impact well i think some of the reports i guess you're preparing political implications i would have to review those reports and i have not done that either running demonstrations and the like i don't ever mention my testimony

after i talked to mr coleman about what my office should be doing the forthcoming elections had a voice over mr caulfield running over and told him that the white house is very anxious to have the best intelligence possible regarding the potentials of demonstrations during the forthcoming campaign and so the nintendo is under the ear with voice of online contacts with a justice department memo that in frequent contact with the internal security division now i have in my hand here a position report an internal security division that

position or as of april fifteenth nineteen seventy two we're just going to have this report for him to identify those individuals more and as a physician recorded april fifteen nineteen seventy two and the officers prophets of analysis in planting their lives to bernard wells executive director of the idea you and to assess rather than enjoy sweat again in the interviews which i head that the internal

security division appellate courts doesn't it was explaining the point of that in fact this awesome analysis in planning in that position and record the audio you were a cover this report is dated april seven two of the head and take a look at it is this in any way relate to the recommendations which you made in an earlier day the id id the idea i knew was the unit that was in existence around one time and in the justice department it was basically a newspaper clipping operation to follow what the demonstrators are going as i understand they subscribe to the many magazines and publications as well

pick up when the decision was made to establish the icy be it i knew you know it was actually the funk at that time and as i recall there was discussion about the fact that the idea i knew it existed and that it could very easily be the explanation for the icu which was not going to be a publicly known intelligence evaluation group and this was the decision to put the id id id to cover over the eye of the city the national person that was placed in charge of the icu as mr doherty up with them at the internal security division for quite some time that was planning on on the kind of some point there were also suggestions that

other somebody else out my command and head mission about well i look i appreciate or crazy you mention you mentioned my question or even just track the second time since that laws so it is true that the concept of the icc does sit there covered by position by the idea that it was as the subject of a letter which she wrote homage i believe in the documents and i turned over to be added to the court initially there was a memorandum in there that was based on a conversation that michel and i had to hand as to how to establish this very small segment of a rather large in dramatic plan now whether that was in that document or not i cannot recall i have not review those documents virtually since

the time they were written three years show your position report was dated april fifteenth of nineteen seventy two jennifer has written report which voters have identified as the icc under the cover of the idea i knew this was in the summer of nineteen seventy i think that's a statement that illegal activity as recommended in september of nineteen seventy it does still exist in the offices of now some planning to it

session today i had to check documents my own office to remember the accuracy of that and not that generally the way i recall occurring yes the first step was taken in so far as setting up the decision to it was not illegal and that was going to register as a correspondence and i believe i had some meetings with mr mitchell about this in his office and we discuss some of these concepts have any

ideas to win those meetings took place follow there was still resistance at this point and only a part of the fbi as to its participation in the unit and it was this result of this resistance by the fbi that mr cole i'm going to talk to you michel about interpol also said that i recall that he was willing to come over and talk to mr mitchell himself about if i had any problem thank you if

beak yesterday well the white house is going that's a record

the thought was maybe because for a special report on agency committee which cause to do so says domestic intelligence is like the fbi cia the ins that there's documents for three pages long some of them good for those second recommendations relate to operations of the election there's not adding in nineteen seventy but those thirty thousand at fourteen it was him i

do father samson with wealth i do the committee agrees that are quote on the difficulties in the leaves out all the courts all the ocean's eleven with europe and just recently

in addition they have authorized and record of complicity in the last week have been printed new york times and washington well and so what is the way to the best of intelligence and internal security is a lot worse it is almost didn't notice an internal security the committee's very good witness is concerned that is not the simplest reason respectfully question for you sincerely yours well

since nineteen seventy in a telephone conversation with libby you were one of the nineteenth century is alan stein and davis as apple pie this senegalese not this connection with it was the stated that permitted and when the inaugural here and now it's

because both the position that but he was all right i do relations

it's been a week one question well not a knock on which he got a lot of work he delivered three po and wisconsin recall notice from it

michael feinstein that although his lawyer has participated in the delivery of the documents to judge her record was going to find as the dean placing the documents in a safe deposit box and he's going to be being delivered to the court documents now became an opposition not the receipt the saying that an abundance of caution us just indicate that he and this month analysts had not previously received possession of the stuff state although maybe we think it's desirable and i think central recount be able to confer know that the nominee is not much on our quiz

victories their client john dean's attorneys and interrupted the proceedings at this point being took the documents from his white house saved and they're going to judge johnson rica the judge give one copy of to the federal prosecutors and wanted a senate committee determines what to keep dean from revealing any government secrets in violation of the law on their televisions coverage of the senate hearings will continue after a pause for a station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs a public broadcasting service the

the

pay grade and pike continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert mcneil as we know marketing and said iran is supporting documents and to be kept secret or others to become part of the committee right it's been

the plane's beacons be the piano player you know it's been three four

through this week was that the point you have the

market this is a huge amount of them in an abc committee on intelligence nineteen seventy occasionally mr martin right that's really great which he has given to the committee and respect and an accomplice about inspector that all four sets the

nation we gave it to much as he was reaching to retain jurisdiction over the reasons these documents and also we have a couple that forced out there and that is that the committee is don't want all his clothes in any not in the national security were killed is that political matters you're welcome like the first time i met you would like to join and banking market and a vision of being the deputy director of the joint committee on compelling interviews that there's a security officer the joint committee i'm a member of the joint committee an atomic energy

i'd like to thank congressman mel rights chairman joint committee on atomic energy for consenting as to the rest of the committee to this additional burden on the staff of the joint committee on atomic energy to ensure that the start of these documents was done in accordance with the requirements of the law ms martha plimpton used who had been assigned by the league directed by the president to work on this project when i came on the white house that was used in it

is he turned over the documents i had never seen before the only i had seen the basic government shortly after it won the white house that holleman told me mr hughes do have been working to get the plan implemented but there were some difficulties in implementation that is basically how i came in contact with them and you have a custom at these papers cents a pound be

preserved oh i thought you know this mean would you be good enough and to read a committee memorandum from you too mr mitchell john my memory of the settlements time of times i've seen has been dated september of nineteen seventies epics september eighteenth nineteen seventy listen to our conversation yesterday september seventeen nineteen seventy i suggest the following procedures to commence our domestic intelligence operation quickly as possible one inner agency domestic intelligence unit to keep the entire operation will be the creation of an interagency intelligence unit obviously this will be a vital importance of the success of the mission

as we discuss the selection of personnel unit is an appropriate first that for several reasons there's that the ordination of the different agencies must be developed an early stage to the establishment in second hoover has indicated its strong opposition to the creation of such a unit and to bring the fbi fully on board you see third you to conserve to make appropriate recommendations for the types of intelligence that should be immediately pursuit five of those agencies and regarded as the wind i believe we agreed that it would be inappropriate to have any blankets removal of the restrictions whether the most appropriate procedure would be decided we need based on an assessment of the recommendations of his unit and then proceed to remove restraints as necessary to obtain such intelligence proceed to create an agency

protecting the evaluation grouper committee i recommend that we request the names of four nominees from each of the intelligence agencies of all well the precise composition of the unit may vary as we gain experience i think the two members should be appointed initially from each agency in addition to your personal representative boucher also be involved in this proceeding because of the interagency aspects of his request it would probably be that if the request came from the white house if you if you agree i think that was essential second housing we discuss the appropriate housing of this operation and upon reflection i believe that rather than the white and a white house staffer looking for suitable space professional intelligence person should be assigned the task of locating such things

accordingly i would suggest the request we made it mr hoover signed an agent to this task in connection with the housing problem i think serious consideration must be given to the appropriate justice department cover for a domestic intelligence operation we discussed yesterday using it i you as as a cover and as i indicated i believe that it is a most appropriate cover i believe that it is generally thought of the idea i knew it already is far more extensive than telling delegates operation and has been mentioned publicly and that the idea a new operation cover would eliminate the problem of discovering a new intelligence operation in the department of justice however reservations about personality in the idea that you had as an operation activities that would suggest that they need to be given either begin a minor function within the new intelligence operation with a step be

completely removed it had only incremental dealings with a person out of that gender line and cannot speak an operation a separation despite his administration such an intelligence operation through it we also discussed the need for you to have the right hand man to assist in running this operation would seem that what is needed is a man with administrative skills a sensitivity to the implications of the current political and subversive move into the united states and apparently some background intelligence work to maintain the cover i would think an appropriate for them and have a lot of grain and you'd be a part of the

justice you suggested a possibility with cases of this type accordingly i've spoken with can work to ask him to submit the names of five assistant us attorneys who have experience in dealing with demonstrations and that might be a sensitive i cannot discuss the matter any further detail that would rather than just a request for submissions of nominees i would also like to suggest that we request the names from the various intelligence agencies involved now that might be appropriately involved in this activity who might serve as your assistant in summary i recommend the following immediate action one with hoover explained what must be done and requested his nominees for the interagency union to the request of hoover's sign and made into the past of locating appropriate housing for the operation

three i request the other involves intelligence agencies and that nominees for the interagency union for my request from the agency's the names of appropriate personnel croissant the operation finding i would like this i would suggest could you call weekly meetings tomorrow to problems as they emerge and to make certain that we're moving into implementation as quickly as possible no to sign in and out of the city if you would like him to join you and meeting with liberty will be happy to the south i think that statement that for your statement yesterday we say i remember and maybe establish and the restraints to be moved later the only way to proceed with one step at a time and this could be an important first appear gray i my i was quite worried

some discussions with mr houston who still not a lot of hope that the entire plan would be adopted i have reached the conclusion that there was no way the whole plan is going to be adopted and the only thing that was essential was the iaea see and that this will satisfy everybody that we are at least doing something to solve the problem and this was a first up testing sock workers all that pressure when everybody saw that the memorandum was written then proceeded to set i think what happened is and i'm not going to promote the mechanics of how this actually did occur i i believe that mr michel did have a conversation with her to her and reached some agreement as a visitation i don't i don't

know how the decision were made to place it in the internal security unit that i didn't write that at some point because they code he plays bass office which was separate and apart from the department of justice and the maine department of justice and i've learned that her mr doherty with the sort of demand would be getting the operation initially may i ask you this question malaysian mr doherty was or discussion many times humans first had been used to morale short i guess that was mr erlichman was aware of this as well and judge shaw was a friend mr edmonds apparently had been as i recall he was reelected or something of that nature the current league city and eventually

work and mr erlichman thought this would be an excellent thing for him to do and invited him to come to washington and we had a number of meetings on it and the more you look at it to have the less he decided he wanted and all that and so that the first term was john doherty i believe that is correct fuel in discussions in your office with their sharp horns doherty a relative through the icy i'm sure with both individual chairs and what other person well i talked to work to church or i know that i recall that when he decided he wasn't interested because one he felt he didn't know much about this feel incredible education too become a point where i think he spent a couple weeks looking into the matter i think he learned that it was going to be some sort of

a secret operation that he would be running the department of justice and he wanted to be able to explain that what he was doing to people that when people that only didn't want a pakistan can play one here in washington and we had a number of discussions about other assignments for him and i think he did some very viable legal work for my office in connection with some trade matters to come to my office or resolution members demonized or you first heard the news i believe that there well senator bernard well yes or so from the time of your mom ran into the allman cellular mechanics ministry of details of the operation to this moment in time has come as any surprise to

sell over two a mr donnelly else is this basically the plan that was adjusted in your memorandum to john mitchell levy ignore i can't believe an awful lot and it's

a lazy there's no there's not voting anywhere very clearly from the mayor mark it on them when i came over and the most well they came over from mr wells and that anyone who reads the committee withdrawal is the girls in an it executive director ipo you very much for now you've also stated that doesn't your knowledge no ability to illegal activities or white arm i'd like to get into the matter of your contacts and the us one really has one question we're going to find your contacts with interest or division state estimated there was a

recession by the president of the nineteen seventy one and why all the solutions but first that at one point i don't know about the recession that something that i don't know i knew that there was a squabble going on between mr houston and representing the white house and the fbi on the streets to know talk to me on a number of occasions about the matter i knew that mr mitchell when i talked with him about it look upon it and when i met with him i was opposed to it i think what hurt mitchell and i decided with the best course was to do the minimum amount possible now that might satisfy people that something was being done and that was to create the icc it is

one of two things either there could've been a recession by the president the word of which decisions are you never see that's a possibility here mr hughes even after i sign that memorandum it's very possible that i would not have been aware that i was aware of all of the recession and i wasn't aware and for approval and i was a general awareness you know i said i was twelve see what you can do to get this plan implemented

and that's all i'm interested in you do what could you tell us committee and you're your own words of any other contacts that you have with the internal security division are in and so far this is information that it's been fb fb