1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-10-10; Part 3 of 6

it's been the pope are you supporting no no search not just that i worked on a secure server at supplied by the government in their conversations with me express the philosophy that they did not agree with the government that they were american born when you said you didn't agree with and i've certainly been a lot of the work of all because that was no the

ethics of my playing is information and i'll give you said that you've you have some the sanctions that i've found though you've got to go and you've said that though those that use them four like to get information about the pain information will they be yours when you break a lot of them from a symbol for all is about and would you remind everyone agrees that question please save the pain information about crawling all right activity open i never caddied from its represent a humane that you follow those nineteen seventy two campaigns nelson or wanted to give the homemade five conceal your

identity that's that's not been that wasn't proud i used to different names because i was working simultaneously in two different ways oh and follow you wanted you to know the man no sir it was not with that purpose the purpose of the duo named situation arose in milwaukee when i started receiving phone calls from the musky people at my hotel room therefore it was necessary to have a name for them to come in and they calculate that discounts it you know to get it working for as they have a name because it was a similar situation with the country people when you gave a false claim i wasn't under oath of the canon you think it's all right now when the nominal and microphone and set the only you know that you know no sir no you don't think you're back from prague when you got to see one of these are militias and leave and you won't go command

from all that not only did it no sir nasr it was not incompetence of falsification of any of any you know i think that when you get out of the business of the league he was somebody not a way that you will not no sir you're trying to read into my testimony and the statements that purposely with encana for our use different names and that is not what you know they want to live our lives if you're not going to see them and waving you will

not that magnum away last season there was never an attempt on the part made to conceal the fact that michael mcmillian registered republican and you are right now yesterday and are you won't even though it might use them to be always on the republican party can no sir i do not i would have opened it safe to collapse right sixty two that the senators it is right yeah i don't respect the writer's think about as far as tom i'll go over my life

that a mammal doesn't practice of deception when he misrepresented his identity and misrepresents august so thats all political philosopher at least an all purpose of infiltrating and the lack of getting intelligence from all people is often politically well you know you have it relative to believe that antiques that terminology and that in that manner to think that we were talking about terminology your senator and i think we can save a lot of time because you're interpreting the actions that our job in nineteen seventy two as deceptive announce an interview is is that as a part of the political operation of intelligence gathering i've never i don't think the committee is implied nor have i didn't know

well i met nora be attacked in any illegal activity now we could sit here for the rest of the winter and talk about ethics and politics we didn't talk about politics or religion with these things are not relevant to map particular operation that particular operation was intelligence gathering the grenades that are used to gather this information can be argued on both sides one more question you know that you believe that everything you did as cynthia well you about what writers that's true in the situation as it might be i think he's expressed by openly what his operation was what has his operation yesterday probably verified he

said about his operations accept his conclusions about free to enroll so for one to have an actual westminster well he believes that and all the other writers i think that when i was writing about that they're not have indicated that well he's ensured do quite a number of times when he felt his operation amounted to him what his feelings were his opinions of one while you disagree with the long terms of whether or not that is espionage with it was intelligence gathering what do you think that these activities with you will write its

activities for my interpretation yes they are still thank you i have an idea that this is a good point to reiterate what i said on yesterday we're now i met neville are all the trackers actually subjected considerations barriers as distinguished from whether something is when we go oh really i really very much doubt that many would claim that political practices that is political practice to combat political intelligence activities against one's opponents are potential opponents has an attractive more desirable i'm not one of those who believe that anything is fair and love war and politics

but i am concerned for now this committee goes about an orderly examination of the political more age ahead at the patterns of conduct in activities that have grown up in the american political system your use of the word writers your order to the what is that the answer whether his conduct with writers are not disturbed this thursday because of course the worm writers isn't used in the resolution that created this committee i really do not aspire to beat writers jazz a fairly imperative tone too and i do hope to be right as optimus i can to be imperfect what we are mandated inquire into this to what extent we can recommend legislation the congress of the united states are waiting to illegal unethical or

undesirable once again i think we're going to have to tread atmosphere which the benchmark by which we just what is undesirable maybe then when we've done that unfinished undertaking then we can aspire to be writers i want to go into this just permanent more i don't like there's any doubt that this witnesses testified that he was in fact a paved agent he was an agent to collect information but he may or may not wittingly or unwittingly have caused injury and armed with a cannabis you picked a candidate i will buy like the precept that established in the discipline i imposed on myself when i said early in these hearings and i would not comment on the relevancy of the important our credibility of annuities by saying i characterize this oregon up as undesirable whether it is immoral or illegal or unethical or whatnot has to be

rather with subjective individual that is and with the unfortunate pattern of conduct that may or may not have grown up he met american political science and do the best i can to find out what is going on and what has been a long for a long time on yesterday we are witnessing indicated that his previous foray into politics i believe with campus politics was in kansas politics at random selected to be president of the student body at the university of tennessee which is the only other elective office i ever had and i'd rather say that some of the shenanigans that go on in campus politics would really once god really is blatantly bed in many cases and i'm concerned for example kari foreign power more adult outpatient i do not propose to this for sixty be amended to inquire into kansas politics something unusual about the

promotions in a way that you were in fact occasion we have no disagreement on that let's go from that to the proposition that your agent jerry took you into the operation senator muskie senator mcgovern and senator humphrey that's your pattern of operations was essentially the same and all three years here's an observer testimony these fundamental kinds one you had no trouble at all even without wine but your affiliation simply by saying nothing and working herself and a very extraordinarily sensitive and important positions in those campaigns that's correct and that while you work in those campaigns i suppose for the sake of double agent trio for this i got the relationship you did in fact do your best to help a particular candidate that you were working with at that moment yesterday in which your

primary motivating instinct was to perform the original ancient tree and that is to gain information to report to your employer who was involved in some way in the republican campaign in nineteen seventy two years old in the course of that i'm from iowa that endeavor you did your job and you did in fact report from time to time we also observed other conduct by other than republicans against democratic as orange the nomination of repression that existed as the answer that thousand a better position to observe the democrats i don't know whether or not there was anyone comparable to you who's being made by one of the other democratic candidates to work against his fellow democrat in the campaign yes there will be an example of a operative in the same

capacity of which are now operating in with the exception of not believe that he has admitted to focus we are taking incredible trip sometimes you know many others no major characters that i was examined some of the information already given issue say you know all our precinct worker campaign staff and other information paraphernalia other competing candidate appearing in the headquarters the candidate for whom you were working at their working with at that time would understand correctly yes or not it's a little unclear are you telling us that you think that information say on pre op precinct worker louis showed up for instance and muskie had orders by some surreptitious or immoral illegal way it's mapping is just based on my own personal knowledge that there was quite a bit of literature and information from a poor state borders is it your opinion that was being transferred freely and

openly or that it was being surreptitious transferred surreptitiously and secretly it was therefore not transmitted openly about the world you know whether that was done by volunteers are about eighty eight i don't really know but you do know the end result was that you observe first band that structural information are important political information out one candidate showed up in the campaign headquarters of another game yesterday at six am another piece of your testimony indicated that on occasion you know of episodes where the campaign staff of one candidate for the democratic presidential nomination i believe he identified senator mcgovern jennifer planned and executed demonstrations against one of his fellow democrat senator must be that there was up discussion of some sort of about the susceptibility of senator must be to demonstrations of that sort that mcgovern supporter yes there are wars at least for you you get what is that piece of information which is useful to establish a

habit patterns the practice the political mores the country which can you go one step farther can you tell me how high up in the pecking order oh what what degree of responsibility to such protest i have a say in the mcgovern campaign really big picture little bit of a leak so we're going to be the big fish in a critical capacity to fire them or describe this time well the youth core narrative for them of governmental committee was one of the organizers of some of the protests and the vietnam war was just that counts out what and mr southworth was the national director of the mcgovern you can't pay that's the way he was a bit of acne you do see are a very important state and plans to demonstrate against senator must be as he conveyed the south the navy also is helping in the manufacturing of the posters that are mentioned in the air you know how the money was gone but unlike those posters are remote that activity against senator much not exactly

i mean i can testify specifically that it came from stefan's the essence of the policymaking open the government or if they were using it's a law office paper and gluten free or scissors on the court at least using the opposite was that where they're attackers but governor put much of government people in the mcgovern headquarters that land created the paraphernalia foreign executed a demonstration against senator must yes sir you consider that right yes no sir i know there was a way that's pro quo now let's let's move let's move on them to just move on to some of the other situations you spoke of the campaign in california i'm sorry doesn't always room for a while and i didn't get them over dinner testimony that respect but i wanna move next to the national convention democratic national convention in florida you've implied it invites some fairly how important

things but neither mr david crisp to the point where i could understand what you're talking about now you were part of the governor's security forces on the seventeenth floor is headquarters hotel convention the democratic national convention in nineteen seventy two but it is correct and on one occasion one which you've testified a delegate from a state asked to see mr gary hart what was mr hertz title i believe he was campaign manager of the force is not permanent waste it was finite with senate and terry hartle to top policy making administrative and say hello to get involved and in fact on the seventeenth floor it was shown his departure of your story well you present in the star certainly had his conversation i was going to go or did you hear the conversation also in his department telling how long was

he witnessed there are probably ten to fifteen minutes was anyone else press it going to do and he came back out and left is that you're a copy it on me when you know how it's oregon from the premise of it and someone in authority on the seventeenth floor of the government till headquarters has you to get it through and to make this delegate and take him to the playboy plants not so they didn't give me the destination it was common practice at the convention to prevent cars for delegates and the family reunions they merely out really instructive to go and get the car and wait for the delegates they give any other inspection notes are other delegates up at the destination it and he came out of the literally had two people with a jew what apple and for the photo with a car he was standing on the one of the epigraph to grapple in a room until you know about two girls he had with notes or whatever might seen before in the hotel

right now the fundamental were these girls no new to be prostitutes or get you later learned that they were not prostitutes senator they were they exhibited some what i consider more likely reason the car between toronto and why what wasn't can you tell us committee that there is a link or connection between the immoral activity of those two women in the delegate in the backseat of that bahr and his visit to gary hart not specifically in other words i cannot testify that i don't know what the girls could possibly been with him when he came he could've mailed coming in or going out i can't say that he was by those two girls badly governed staff no sir so the broad outlines of what you're telling us is that a delegate from a state and national convention visit with mr martin let your instructor providing transportation that he came out of the hotel without new two women

to plan to characterize as prostitutes but with which he engaged in immoral activity in the back seat of the car and that's all you know about us you know another episode of the time not that specific images civic a great degree was president it never happened in the presence of you know that there were several women throughout the whole tale and there were many many in florida that i would classify as prostitutes and women that were making propositions to delegates not knowing if you know of any effort by any candidate republican and democratic national convention in nineteen seventy two these women in connection with their violent activities no surf by my final question for the atlantic at the beginning it will

be our ultimate responsibility to try to make recommendations to the tigers not only on now the status of this investigation with respect to the existing law but also with respect and you an additional loss that might be appropriate to be like the process and to identify those gangs are undesirable or immoral or unethical now you've been through and you've been through a unique experience reality and i think they've been very forthcoming and frank and candid in your plot i do not believe that you should be taken to task for outlining the weapons go of your undertaking and high or disapprove just said a moment ago i think that the maybe the principal auction this committee will be to extend those those lines that ought not to happen even though they may have but can you make any recommendations do you have any ideas or suggestions that you

can make this committee about where we ought to draw what we ought to make illegal what we ought to identify as clearly undesirable or unethical political you have any suggestions for its no mermaids here suggesting to the committee into politicians and the public in general would be that they're not personally deplore via the boy in type activities and that the illegal type activities but i feel personally that political intelligence gathering that means that frat boy are necessary function if the present cameras political campaigns especially on a national level it isn't that i disagree with and you recommend how we could stop that for instance how would you feel about a specter that made it illegal for the payday center and former of

another candidate to offer himself or services a volunteer otherwise campaign another national federal aid it was against the law the mouth feel it should not be done that that's at work that we do have declined and reject the job that undertow yes sir like the american political system of bebop had there been such as that time you were approached i have to do that job if it was an effective educator so let us do what you get infected and that you knew or have brought your attention that if you give if that is if you get accepted by an accusation again and it is liberation from potential democratic opponents but it would be a violation of federal spectacle on a felony now thats i think all you need years of emotions and the polonium poisoning and therefore not of undertaking the

operational sit right with the american political system of them are not at that all that in place an effect on your approach to undertake this job i really came into that senator with a yes or no answer in that canyon sound system of ornate political activity campaign structure activity would have to be worked out first i don't think that it's possible to undertake democratic former government with free election where one candidate operate totally without the knowledge of the other guy and i think if the legislation would include up some sort of negotiated revelation that we get the right words not that story specifically specific actions but i think it's necessary for one candidate to know the other candidates primary issues and what he plans to make a campaign issue so is granted a

free and equal responsibility issues and if this type of system to be working on or that one senator with no senatorial candidate would know what the other senatorial candidate plan city's strategy was then possibly a system of this war that has long is the mirror legislation would be passed just to make it illegal that type of legislation would he would create more borrowers because i believe that it's impossible to operate a successful campaign without knowing what the other man's unit let's let's relive water answer the money question that i thank you for that i think they cannot rely on their previous answers you know any bills they want to the terminology and as a punishment leave your answer already is that we get such a statute in place in fact the time you were privileged job that first part that that deterrent factor

with it then it you can take a mr lister wouldn't worry mr lippman we're going to use you were certainly will work and four could've been a democrat republican atheist common is one avenue that you found out julio employer was as a result of these hearings as my recollection corrects up that the employer was definitely from the hearings as i mentioned earlier aig suspicion that the people that are working with the political philosophy at least of republicanism and my interpretation of that

you listed the other sons received for euro as they await him if you missed the psalms receive in your income tax return inserted mr mohammed in mind and harder to identify the source of this i'll believe i'll my income tax form and space research for our investigative work i'm not sure of the exact terminology would solicit separate from other employment income the press but you in interviews so you met with her the chief of police security division of labor government orders on saturday july date yes certainly that was the initial contact with

<unk> rock where the river gives you were immediately hired by him service is that while it's referred to monitor counts out what i wanted to begin your service as security officer that meant that initial paycheck mr bryant and you just fight the two were on duty for three days the security officer approximately three or four days or so that july eighth ninth and tenth and our software and twelve the koreatown was an hour from july eighth until july thirteenth when our way of money a lot more than three days yes there are several days that up i was a sentiment here are asking to hear the polls and there are other days that i work there are no tail up not specifically on the setting forth like a three

day a reference in the nose is to the three days actually serve at a specific a signpost goes man what's right or barriers will be used monday the california vote sunday afternoon on tuesday and i believe wednesday afternoon specifically those are not that particular post to be responsible for and juno this year you have an interview with which time you're indicating that mr mike was told you that he was aware of mystique builder is possible if you know struggling and that incorrectly that that particular statement was reported in one of the newspapers and st louis of the wave alerts from the actual incidents of that was that

i had overheard a conversation about mr immelt has helped create not he referred to mental health work right again or if they were just you know this same land of questioning was discussed about every brit can chill vive presidential candidate i'm assuming to make a gallon of june twenty four nineteen seventy three as dr meltzer is if you're part of a st louis all year so that that is this in this tradition welcome back to my first question is a wish you responded you're not certain we are in was what is an artifact reviewer was contacted by a friend of yours and certain points and i've known some years earlier as a result of republican campaign in disarray i met him while working in a republican campaign years there weren't utah looked for you a

group of conservative republican businessman i believe the thing that i remember cyrus was concerned citizens the indication possibly was made of businessman that actually my recollection of that is not it's clear some of the other actual operational matters i go from about product you're not politically naive you don't know and second of all president of new young republican opposition in college to broaden the program you've been there for many years paul young man with such political but cromwell to accept employment and through political espionage not known as liz employers were as you've mentioned senator i was politically active

for a number of years and in a number of different campaigns are just begun its local state national elections quite frequently the interest in this particular sound that are drawn back into this particular assignment to me was to travel around the country and it was something that i had never done and it was a challenge and i appreciated that challenge with your republican but probably wouldn't work for democratic organization for democratic opposition senator will fall prey aren't in this case not just intelligence gathering airport and political organizations other than that voluntary work with seventeen primaries are several questions but the law simple the strong ideal world chapter eight seventeen oh before the criminal code no sir i'll read their students

a seventeen point zero to obtaining property of our goals western nations will falsely for some aids or represents another and in such as soon character receives an ape property intended to be delivered to the parcel post david with intent to convert the same political news shall be punished as if he had been convicted of last may you received a button which very few people receive during the report of the democratic convention about not permitted to full access of the seventeenth hole something that are permitted to gather valuable information in an area which was so carefully guarded by the secret service this little thing here i think you want to the us section of the particle

no sir i know that biden was given to michael mcmahon a way that was not given any misrepresented person you actually believe that you're working for mr mcgovern about that is a designation of staff position with mcgovern organization and while that mcgovern organization and while moore that button apropos of the activities in the obligations and responsibilities of that position and i did not fossil power do anything except do a good job of that particular activity it's b as the service a collection right we're also going to take a short

pause over television coverage of the senate hearings will continue after this break for a station identification on the bridge coverage of the hearings is being broadcast as a public service where local public television station this is pbs public broadcasting service fb fb fans but the

pain has been there's been the past week to pass because

blank and that continues its coverage of hearings the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities it again and bad correspondent jim lehrer as teenagers and senator obama especially on some information about his appearance in the best showcase there is no formal announcement about the resignation of vice president agnew that you know they surely that the press tables will be empty and there'll be a lot of conferring among the senators all

western libya as chairman of the committee we climb a jewel of a united states district court new york and to testify and the news sent the senate send the senate documents are committed on one third of our po po committee is on the committee i just for operating never passed away without him and at the request button

will almost committing some tobacco and i am a huge that resolution as earl well not the senate gave me permission to testify in that case and the abuse and the documents with all relevant to the issues johnny case in which this year is issued the case of our whole call festival competition the resolution authorizes is a select committee to attempt to determine sumpter not reveal about us in his name are probably information sought is relevant to the issues joined in the case with his removal of an issue and all the resolution lot of the civil rights has committed to undertake behalf of pain that the white settlement question about passive patient with attorneys in the case

this record the committee is anxious to cooperate never away without the production of many elements in its possession which may be relevant to it without a varsity of obligation about them the proper make a sole purpose of center line in five years mr wittman away turning your diary entry on march twenty fifth you touched on most planned disruption must ease television interview would you explain in detail exactly what happened as it's known in the diary out personally observed production of sense of placards were and what they were intended for use in a demonstration that was to be held a tv station in the

working on the bass lines were that's actually produced in the government or yes they were abducted and they say what kind of signs were they it's in the valley america needs a leader i felt derogatory private sector must use emotional outpouring of the new hampshire and from many of the signs were there the recall not specifically senator but there were numbers that mean they were there other signs in addition to this particular cry baby oh yes there were the senate can you recall some of the other slogans no sir not specifically can you give an approximate idea of a home and a number of the signs were

there are actually eighteen people working on an individual's making in passing or not passing through they were making a wonderful sensibility each each one was playing cells or i'm gone up as a wireless mics point made a major stop for what they planned to do which use those sense on sunday morning over at the radio tv station reporters to his protest up and down and hopefully upset senator must use composure before he really an intimate press conference asked what this committee state have a copy of the transcript that operate from the press this particular tv interview may be noted in in this particular transcripts are on education and less than compiles data to take a messenger must be during this particular tv appearance fact i recall a

television appearance of my recollection of somalia was a somewhat ups and insurers thought that one of the reasons why he wasn't because of demonstrations outside yes arrest when an echoing democrats must become quite upset j were quite a few demonstrators outside the bottom line here lenny unfortunately that particular morning i overslept and i did not go to the tv station myself it was normally not practice not to be in the vicinity of thirty even though i knew that such things that pack rat not a plea not to go around those would you characterize this is a dirty trick on people on yes sir

i know it also in your diary with the issue that you obtained a musky schedule and gave it to the humphrey people in wisconsin is that correct yes or would you give it to him marry humphrey headquarters of the press that meant within the best prescription for comfort one of the opera's key people are yes populism the name i can't recall right off a couple money but that the gentleman's function was to help and scheduling press appearances and inspiration for the senator did you tell him how you attain rescheduled no center in most instances the passing of the scheduled from one headquarters to another was anonymously or you give it to him so not personally saw probably gave it to him but i cannot physically hitting bottom usually these things were handled over the telephone now a columnist for the press secretary the advancement for that to

keep their city in just a matter of fact conversation he of them went out for it to be the schedule you know we were no sir and a lawyer he knew he was getting information from someone her ovary was he had was yes or did he object to getting this information now so they were very thankful so to paraphrase the view is very grateful that somebody who was gathering political intelligence on the hospital must be so important the assembly they were quite willing to receiving information that i noticed tom brady six only witness some worry that you did the same thing in reverse what they what they say

all types of that i ask the question did you think you'd be rescheduled for them was killed yesterday gave information to my contact listen along to the other people well is there any objectionable probably mostly people getting outraged at you know so there was no sign that it existed in and each and every organization that i gather so what you're saying is that in any political intelligence that you were able to generate for you you must hear the humphrey in wisconsin was very badly received by both camps is that right yes or and i had no objection to their political intelligence gathering on the other

fall now so if we can put a little more borrowing may be offended by this term that they have no objection to political spying even know they did nineteen seventy two i mean it was going on the ongoing him in the candidates' camps on the very differently let's go to the university of wisconsin speech that must be made which are referred to and you talk about it before but again i'd like to find out more in detail what happened can you give a moral woman's description of this particular hack sen mccain and it was

announced an estimated maybe he was a big university of wisconsin not really richard nixon's i was there because i went out with the most people to the university and i noticed a lot of pickling a lot of market falling in this type of immel boisterous fight demonstration or the senate but i did notice that summer get falling and some of the heckling was coming from people that i recognize from the mcgovern youth movement so in this instance again of your own personal knowledge you know that at least some of the haggling and destruction was done by mcgovern people because you have seen the minimum government lawyers yes sir can you get the world of seventies use violence that was not to a

large extent in wisconsin but as we progress in the campaign to california the attacks became as the field of candidates know down attacks became more personal and more obscene in some cases or what kind of heckling occurred of this wisconsin rally falling of whistling scream and how are actually ended up clapping and singing any can of boisterous noise that would disrupt their communications over the pa system and make hearing senator very very difficult work so i must be able to complete his speech he notes there are he did a complete speaking there i am at the ten hours of that of what he was planning on talking about but he didn't cover completely the topics in the area the plan the original plan to cover the words the heckling was russo seriousness or boisterous or than annoy him so much that the

culture of the speech ended and did not come to the point where he intended to those other things in my opinion being cut the speech and he he was obviously very very upset would you characterize this at least insofar as the people you identified as mcgovern people as being a dirty trick play button to govern people inside the mosque i feel that everyone has the right to their own opinion but express your opinion at the expense of someone else's definitely not desirable to say the least that's kind of the airy humphrey fund raising dinner that you talked about the return of the beverly hilton hotel in california i understand there are two there was giving him harassment could you describe in more detail yes sir i'll this was up movie extravaganza of the california campaign from the aspect of senator humphrey fund raising drive

i believe it was a hundred dollar a polite sit down dinner where the senator was just the it was rather formal wear the dragon center up on getting large contribution by computers there in a lot of personalities and no faces the mcgovern youth people who work in the santa monica bay area who was familiar with at least from the standpoint of recognition on site was an annoying neurotic orders they got together a group of people primarily from around a college campus aires ucla and so forth and they proceeded out of every building whole tale approximately nine have before the scheduled start of his dinner they are in many instances the mcgovern people would be a caravan to go to a rally or to a

demonstration in his few number of vehicles as they could eggnog more pollen when carmen hater camp people are in drag to save expenses and so forth but i remember specifically on this evening they took as many different cars as they could so as to take up as many parking spaces close to the hotel to religion as necessitate the guests at the banquet having to walk at some distance or they would have a chance to observe the sensitive and the protesters what kind of signs really caring think i serve up that country especially they were pro mcgovern sense but they were not pro humphrey sense they were on some other concern type sense with some the statements state has taken out of context and used up from the standpoint for embarrassment to senator held for your call harmony were engaged and most

several places there were several people out so they were up were thirty people involved in the total demonstration that i didn't recognize myself at least for that probably people that i knew were actively working in the mcgovern campaign verbal harassment and a liberal as i mentioned earlier the rebel attack and heckling had become more personal and know there was a lot of not hollering and screaming because there were policeman in the vicinity in awe of this way out and mopping and that's what finally broke up the demonstration not police intervention but the fact that the police were there and there was no bizarre for confrontation with lawful while parties you mentioned to hear how free press conferences i understand that here it was going through a nursing home and he'd be followed by cameras with foam those indicating his concern

about people worth holly people who have to the maritime and nursing homes up the idea senator the idea was to make an appearance and thereby gain some free publicity and now the people that are that accompanied the senator on many occasions each candidate had a core freshman favorable to our police seemingly in the favor of a candidate and they would grab their candidates will enter special treatment and sometimes report the news from that perspective and i describe the harassment the curtain on this occasion or just they're so the senator was entering it was about a nursing home in los angeles again i was not present for the you know for the two are idea of dragging one of the cars over to the nursing home area and have served just

as the senator and all the cameraman were preparing to enter the home a little spontaneous night demonstration started all of a sudden from nowhere came off several protesters carrying signs and heckling him that's when they started the he really doesn't hear it put on kind of a nursing home now demonstrators mr hammond i don't think we want to go on that detail what are one or two things have that one as it were you mentioned one of the ongoing government college you were driving to go from the girl till the playboy plaza hotel but he was joined by two women and i think i recall you saying that you recognize one of them is that correct

i reckon that's the point that i have seen her in the hotel the previous to this is where you see are in the recall as hotel was laid out when you come in the front entrance of burrell coming directly into the lobby there's a large lobby reception room type area to the right the elevators and the stairs what the mezzanine floors mezzanine floors was the gathering point for delegates there was free and curious spectators it was probably the most free access area to the hotel and you had seen her before yes sir what was her job for which it was supposed to be doing what you find her mission was sleeping john kerry gave

no witnesses confirm the costumes what were the question you're not been responsive to that particular question i noticed her on several occasions in the hotel once was reading launched several times in the mezzanine area drawing conclusions to what her specific function in their work you mentioned a hospitality room in a column that was until you described a little more fully what was the fourth was a lawyer who was there senator it's been my experience that not only political conventions but business and social convention there's always a special place in the internet convention meeting place for the hotels or they haven't worked in kentucky we call hospitality room which consists of a room where people get together conjugate top and drank some fans are saying an advance in basically the wonder of old tale which he's as a meeting place where delegates could get together and socialize with other delegates

political figures to get together and socialize with other politicians and so forth so i think you mention him correct me if i don't think your testimony correctly that in this hospitality room would go always or usually a women and it characterizes rather low moral characters that correct yes sir we're all of the harmony whether the number fluctuates senator as did the number of people in the er and sometimes it would be people there are other cancer you know the room would be crowded were the ones that you saw their regular these girls yes that i travel quite extensively between the toronto and felt and blu hotel and in each different ok all there would be a certain cry out that would hang out in that particular hotel you could you could almost stereotyped view different backgrounds record a railroad the family at the playboy clubs and so

forth what was the common knowledge as to why these girls were those who have coffee or coke to what ideas that thought they were prostitutes and that was the gentle understanding only european speak for anyone else and this in mapping in the girls were prostitutes reason why i'm interested in this is not to write this particular point of the ground and a great deal of my earlier in these hearings about political i first presented to him as to mature mr mcgrew enlisted the inability plan contain day proposal use call girls at the democrat convention two years of that the democrats because tomato that particular problem

was the council not use that apparently at least the mcgovern headquarters that very important