Miscellaneous

Don't use those with needles for the reading where you will stay is likely only going to be middle income but what is it going to seem does in those years they must put up with me get on this in a funk beat up Mahe cool just those in considering that the issue of. Of. The conflict of interest inside the Justice Department some people have suggested that if the Border Patrol or the the FBI or whatever investigating body that checks into the issues of violence along the border. In which U.S. government employees are involved from the Border Patrol that perhaps there should be another some kind of an organization to monitor the the abuses and the things that take place along the border such as the OAS the America the Organization of American States or perhaps even the United Nations. That's actually something that is at peace stations in pure speculation but there has been some man. Congressional sources who have already concede there are actually

initiating some motion in the United Nations in the Organization of American States to have some joint body we should with the oversee and the situation of human rights have a view from people who go across the border from Mexico into the into the US or from the US into Mexico and become victims of either authorities or local law. Enforcement agencies the same Border Patrol vigilantes or in the on the Mexican side become victims of anti drug police roadblocks custom agents or the same immigrations agents on the Mexican side. That kind of talk has already started to end in Capitol Hill and our congressional sources have also spoken about those kind of considerations and

actually something that voiced quite Forder. Further ahead rather definitively there is talk about it on the Mexican side of course would be more difficult to come see there because the Mexican congress and Mexican government hasn't really started any action similar to the one that has taken place in the small minority here and in Capitol Hill and the United States. Another thing we talked a little bit earlier about some of the reluctance or what appears to be there is a reluctance to even get these hearings in motion and when we covered this issue back last fall I remember there was a lot of A. Big push to try to make this a bi national issue for people to think about the very things that you brought up the abuse that takes place at the hands of some Mexican authorities as well. Congressman I'm going to go see a trauma news back to

back in his chair. He's going to stay on this but the man the pussy on they could perceive you sitting on my level I would. It was interesting that we were going to have a second roll call vote but it was passed with a voice vote. That's why we didn't come back right away. So whenever you're ready Mr. Martinez you may begin to hear. Thank you. Mr. Chairman and members of this committee I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak here today. I like to particularly thank Congressman Bates Congressman daughters to Congressman Levine for supporting us and calling for these hearings. My name is recto Martinez and I am chair director of the U.S.-Mexico border program in San Diego. For the American Friends Service Committee. My my testimony today will focus on what is probably the most violent section of the U.S.-Mexico border the California Baja California order both in terms of law enforcement abuse and bandits preying on his'n migrants.

As the enclosed partial facts you don't border shooting illustrates since 1984 in the San Diego area alone 33 people have been killed and another 48 wounded in 16 shooting 60 shooting incidents by U.S. Border Patrol. Border crime prevention unit and the border area robbery task force which operated between one thousand seventy six and one thousand seventy eight. In this same time period at least 12 people have been run over and either injured or killed by border patrol vehicles. There are no complete figures for the number of people injured as a result of beatings at the hands of border agents either at the border or at the checkpoint such as San Clemente TX Temecula or Coachella in San Diego and counties. I estimate that only one fourth of all physical abuses are reported. Our office alone averages four to six cases a month. We have evidence that many injuries go unreported because the U.S. Border Patrol sends victims back across the border. Before they make an arrest report.

The U.S. Border Patrol has no clear firearms policy that's giving agents wide discretionary powers on the use of their firearms. Even the chief U.S. Border Patrol agent in San Diego has publicly stated that agents will continue shooting across the border if necessary to protect his men quote unquote. Also calling the border an imaginary line again a quote. Plastic guns are being found more frequently under suspicious circumstances such as in so-called shoot outs. They would have us believe that a man unarmed or with a plastic gun would attack an agent in full uniform and armed with a semiautomatic weapon. We continue to maintain that border crime prevention unit officers patrolling the border have operated as decoys and often do not identify themselves before shooting. As a partial fact sheet on deadly force cases I have submitted also indicates we began to see a dramatic change in shooting practices by U.S. Border Patrol in 1905 with the shooting and wounding across the

border of at that time 12 year old went back to cardio Struther Umberto would also be the first in a long series of victims who would be shot in the back by border agents. Two years later in December of 1997 a twenty seven year old Mexican national was shot in the back and wounded also across the border by U.S. Border Patrol agents not far from where that was shot. He is now paralyzed from the waist down. In December of 1988 in January 1909 four men were shot and killed by border crime prevention officers on board of the one near Santa Seadrill four others were wounded in the same incident. The four killed were not only shot in the back but were shot up to 18 to 22 times. In March of 1909 23 a Mexican national was shot and wounded twice once in the stomach and once in the box by a U.S. Border Patrol agent. While he's trying to stop the agent from beating his six month pregnant wife at a border though the agent claimed the man threw a rock and hit him in the forehead. I was ever

in July of last year. A federal jury cleared the Mexican man of all charges including assaulting the agent. Five months later in August of 1990 14 year old Luis at the water that non-disabled run over and killed by a U.S. Border Patrol vehicle just a few feet from the border as he attempted to run back into Mexico through the fence. The U.S. Border Patrol claims the vehicle was only traveling 10 to 15 miles per hour. But witnesses put the speed at closer to 50 miles per hour exactly one week later. 15 year old Peder Garcia non-disclosed shot of wounded in the stomach in the same area called it a portable. The agent claims the boy was going to throw a rock. However Garcia maintains he was only screaming at the agent in order to get another agent to stop beating his friend who would cross the border with him. One of the most shocking footnotes to this shooting is that six days later the hospital Reece released him gave him $5 of a bottle of aspirin and put him in a taxi sending him back to you wanna go. He wandered around

for a day or two before eventually receiving aid from a church and later from a family that took him in. At this point I would like to set the scene if you will and perhaps in describing this next incident put in perspective several of the abuse incidents have taken place at affordable. The board of the is that name given to the T1 river channel that separates a part of the United States and Mexico. It is at the bottom of this channel that on August 27 1909 a U.S. border patrol supervisor parked his vehicle facing south. Less than two hours for better Garcia not as was shot. And for more than an hour shouted slurs. Many of them racially and sexually explicit but the dozens of people waiting to cross. He amplified the slurs over his vehicles public address system shouting your mothers are all whores. He would also laugh and shout all Mexicans are whores. This incident was witnessed by several U.S. and Mexican journalists covering another border story. The Los Angeles Times published this two days later on

August 29. There is no evidence that any disciplinary action was ever taken. This incident indicates two things to us. First that U.S. Border Patrol agents including supervisors are up there often themselves involved in provoking violence and second the fact that a supervisor was involved in such a practice. Puts into question the training and leadership qualities within the US Border Patrol. We do not claim that all agents across the border are abusive. We understand the conditions and mandates they are forced to work under. However the same laws that mandate them to enforce immigration laws must also as Justice Department policies clearly specify. Protect the rights and dignity of immigrants. The climate of prejudice and abuse against immigrants has had a serious negative impact on the San Diego region increases in hate crimes by youth groups robbing and raping undocumented persons on their way north has added to the violent and explosive situation at the San Diego border. In our San Diego County

migrant workers are also being attacked by gangs who rob beat and often kill them. At least one of the attacks has been classified by the Seiko police as a hate crime. One individual was recently sentenced to 50 years to life. His companion is presently awaiting sentencing. We do not claim to have all the answers. However we do know that as long as border agents continue to shoot maim and injure with virtual impunity nothing will change. Also as long as the segment of society and government continues to lump undocumented immigrants drugs crime and terrorism together in order to justify increased enforcement and militarization attitudes toward immigrants will not only not change but will continue translating into hope and hostility and violence such as we are presently experiencing in San Diego County. We cannot afford another decade such as the last one us our congressional leaders and lawmakers have the power to help put an end to this violence. Peace cannot be enforced or legislated. But last Can

the same laws that say people cannot cross into the United States illegally should also be strong enough to protect those same people from abuse by border agents. This is mandated in Section 115 c of Eartha which charges the Justice Department with vigorous and uniform enforcement of immigration laws. And that it take and I quote doing deliberate actions necessary to safeguard the constitutional right personal safety and human dignity of United States citizens and aliens. We also need a change in attitude of the government ins and U.S. border patrol as well as other local law enforcement agencies cooperating with INS. The message that most caught from here today is that the border is not a war zone and immigrants are not the enemy. Violence and hostility must be replaced with compassion and understanding. Barriers guns and further militarization must be replaced with bridges of communication and mutual respect for the rights and dignity of immigrants and refugees. We therefore respectfully submit

the following recommendations for your consideration. One that President lost Federal estate designed to protect the rights of immigrants be vigorously enforced and clearly and strongly defined across the entire border and throughout the United States. Second that the mechanisms be put in place to ensure thorough prompt and unbiased investigations into each incident of abuse. Unlike presently where agents are often cleared of any wrongdoing before an adequate investigation is even completed. Third creation of a silly civilian oversight mechanism to monitor investigate ainus and U.S. Border Patrol abuses. Fourth a clearly defined firearms and use of force policy established and made public and last access by human rights groups to mystics data and other pertinent information regarding shootings or other deadly force incidents. And this completes my testimony. Thank you. Thank you very much Mr. Martinez for your statement and also your observations and recommendations Mr. Dorsey You may proceed sir.

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this opportunity to testify before your committee today. I will try to make my remarks brief and I will summarize what I said in my prepared statement. In my prepared statement I I told you that I was a former immigration and naturalization employee. I spent 14 years in the in the Border Patrol very much of that time stationed in the area of San Diego. We are principally talking about. I also spent. The latter part of my career as an internal investigator with the immigration service in the Office of Professional Responsibility and I closed my career as a special agent with the inspector general's office of the Department of Justice to which I was transferred when that agency was formed. So I I am familiar with both the activities that have

occurred on the border are occurring on the border both from the context of being a border patrol agent and as well as an internal investigator. I do want to say without any reservations whatsoever that the Department of Justice the immigration service and and other agencies of the government pursue with with Express figure any allegations that are made with respect to the deprivation of rights of any individual on the board whether they be alien citizen or or whatever they it is. A matter of intense regard for the Department of Justice and I spent a very large part of my latter career pursuing such allegations. And there is none that if they were found to be true where disciplinary action did not take place and very often that disciplinary action

resulted in the removal and unfortunately at times we even brought to prosecution. Individuals who deprive others of their rights and Border Patrol agents and other federal officers. I am sad to say even have spent time in the federal penitentiary for their activities. At no time during my career and I'm sure it is still true to this day. Was there any shirking of responsibility and every guard. But. One point I would like to make is that. In order to investigate such crimes and such activities such allegations the agencies are given the responsibility to do that investigation. I must know of the of the violations and they must be reported to them when they're made known to other other people and frequently that is not the case for whatever the purpose. Often

allegations that are made are are not delivered to the appropriate agency. I would like to just briefly address. A couple of other points. One with respect to firearms policy I have heard here from two witnesses that the. There is no firearm policy in the Immigration and Naturalization Service or in the Border Patrol. That is absolutely untrue. They do have a firearms policy. Perhaps the fire's policy is too simple for them to recognise as such but it is a very very simple very plain very clear. It's the same policy that most agencies of the federal government follow. And that is simply that a firearm is never used except in the defense of one's own life. They did the life of a fellow officer or in the defense of the life of an innocent third party. If it doesn't fit into any of those three categories the firearm cannot be used.

And I can say in my career as a Border Patrol agent I had I have been shot at myself. And I have never discharged my weapon. In return because I could not define define as a person who was shooting at me. And I think that is true of every every officer virtually every officer was in the immigration service. D That is a policy that is very clear very concise. And I also heard that the. International Association of Chiefs of Police have a 10 point policy. Well that is a 10 point policy that relates to a different type of law enforcement officer in Tire. We're talking about officers who do have some ostracisation to to fire their weapons at fleeing felons. That is not the case in the Border Patrol. It does not have to be any more complicated than where it is.

And whenever those three of those three turns in the use of firearms are not met. The the the the incidents of use of firearms is is very closely and strictly investigated and if it is found that those three principles were violated disciplinary action is recommended and always is imposed against the individual violating those three principles. I would I'd like to conclude what I have to say and by by saying that the root cause of the violence at the border is because of the volume of people approaching the border with the hope of entering the United States illegally and it is done in a couple of things. One it

is attracted to the border a class of people who would prey on their own fellow countrymen upon the helpless who are coming to this United States seeking seeking some. A better life for themselves. And it is it is mainly to people who are preying upon those individuals who are causing the bulk of the problems at the border. And the border patrols and other agencies difficulties that they're having there are in encounters with those people. Unfortunately from time to time innocent people. You get caught in the CROSSFIRE is there or are accidentally injured in the activities between the predators and those who are trying to protect the the rest of the population from those predators. It is very unfortunate but it but to cause the main

cause is the millions of people approaching that border every every year attempting to come into these United States the only way that it will ever be resolved that the violence at the border may be resolved is to diminish that flow of people that flow of humanity to the border. And the way to do that is one we. We need a enforcement presence at the border that that telegraphs a message that we now mean business that we are going to enforce on an on an even handed basis. Our immigration laws at the border. And number two we have to remove the enticement that is bringing these people into the United States where they know they have a reasonable chance of entering and then they they may obtain employment. The true reason they're coming the United States as if they are. Given this promise and with reasonable certainty can achieve it.

They will continue to come to the United States and as long as the millions approach our border every year we will continue to have the violence that we have today. And nothing nothing that is done I don't believe other than increasing the enforcement posture of the United States and removing those jobs will do anything constructive about what else is going on at that border. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you Mr. Dorsey for capsizing your statement but your entire statement will be in included in the record. And we want to thank you for your observations and here are some of your personal experiences which will be very helpful. How much of the how much of the increase in violence along the U.S.-Mexican border can be attributed to the rise in the drug traffic wherever it would like to comment. It was a human as we believe it has something to do with it.

Since drug interdiction became an official responsibility of the Border Patrol in 86 immediately the Border Patrol was armed with an M 14 simulator and 16s so that in just the equipment you have a high powered automatic weapons being used. And secondly I would like to say that. The issue of the statistics is at issue which which is unclear at all levels. For instance the Border Patrol museum in El Paso has a plaque listing all the agents that have 69 agents since the Border Patrol was formed and in looking at those that have died since 74 and a book that they have we find none to have been killed by the use of firearms. But in less time. Mexican is since 84 21 Mexican nationals

and the Nationals have been killed with the use of firearms. So we believe that. Unless the information is correct we know that pin shootings but that disproportionate use of firearms is perhaps a problem in talking to some agents have also been told that. The monitoring or the electronic equipment does not give evidence of who is coming across the border. I mean whether the person is unarmed or not or whether they're drug trafficking or not. And that increases the tension and the increased increase in tension and stress it or more a propensity to use violence as the answer to the unknown import of policing that is in my experience I don't know about the other gentleman Mr. Chairman may I respond. Yes I MISS JOYCE I was going to say but I would imagine before you respond that some of the drug traffickers are also using high parred rifles as well.

Mr. Chairman I do want to add that fact. But one thing we have to bear in mind when we're talking about drug track traffickers we're talking about people who are bringing a comedy into the United States that in a very small compact unit is worth sometimes millions of dollars. And the drug traffickers will defend that millions of dollars with every everything at their disposal. They are coming into the United States Armed with fully automatic weapons. They often outgunned our our Border Patrol agents who are sometimes only armed recite arms to go up against a fully automatic and of long long weapons as a result of the they have caused an increase in the violence down there. The Border Patrol in response to this to

protect their own the lives of our own people of our own officers has responded somewhat in kind in some areas. They are arming our our agents with with weapons at least of. Equal strengths and equal or equal to the drug track traffickers who are coming in the United States. Pay one way or another. And an increasingly frequent matter is these people now are being used as mules to bring drugs across the small quantities but when you have a group of 100 you can carry a lot between 100 of them. And as far as recently No we are not in the San Diego Mexico border but we are countering more people more along the lines of weapons either concealed in their vehicles or on their person. Even females have been found I personally came across a female that had a 22 hidden in her belt so the drugs are not out of proportion yet or becoming violent

but the possibility is there. Thank you Mr Le Vine. Mr. Chairman thank you and I having heard witnesses I'd like to thank you again Mr. Chairman for convening this hearing because frankly I think that the most important short term result that can come from this hearing is to focus attention on the problem. And the fact that you have convened this hearing and that we are holding it is not only an important first step but as I hear the witnesses and I hope that any of them will correct me if I'm wrong. Well there is doesn't appear to be a consensus on either the cause or the solution. There does appear to be a consensus on the problem that this brutality on the border is existing does exist does occur. I do. I don't think anybody is criticizing

anyone in particular. I think there's a consensus that the Border Patrol and the INS need more help need more assistance. But the bottom line is from whence the problem may come there is a very serious problem and it is a problem that is brutalizing people of all ages of both sexes in an almost indiscriminate basis. Now I regret I didn't hear everybody's testimony I did hear Mr. Manders says Mr. Garcia's in the end of Mr. Dorsey's Mr. Martinez I'm sorry I didn't get back from the floor to hear it but I've reviewed your written testimony. Mr. Dorsey I heard just the end of your comment. If I understood them correctly it sounded like you were concluding that until the long term. It forces that attract people to the border are altered in one form or another until this pressure to cross the border is reduced. These problems will continue to exist. It was that essentially

your conclusion as it did I understand it correctly that that is correct. That is my contention that that it's a it's a problem derived of volume at the border. You know the law of averages prevails when you have millions of people coming to the border you're going to have incidents of violence out of the many millions of incidents. I guess I must confess to you that I find that fatalism unacceptable. And one reason that I'm very glad that we're holding this hearing is that admitted Lee the problems are complicated and difficult and that the pressures at the border are enormous. But we simply can't as a society allow that conclusion to just sit there I think that we have a responsibility as a country and as a Congress and as elected officials. Before the long term solutions are achieved and long term solutions clearly must be achieved before the long term solutions are achieved. We simply can't sit

back and allow this kind of brutality in these types of outrageous abuses of human rights to occur. And I guess the question that I would put to each of you and you each addressed it briefly in your own testimony but we do have a short term and a long term problem the short term problem to me having heard this testimony is intolerable is a crisis and it's life threatening. I'd like to ask each of you if you could just give this subcommittee Eisa sinked if you were can it going to come up with a single policy recommendation in terms of what we could do that would most significantly reduce the level of violence. Increase the safety of people protect innocent people. What should we do. MS. humanist

I. As most major urban areas have been designated to high intensity drug trafficking area yes we believe that when our police scene is no different and that the same standards required of our local police departments in our major metropolitan area this should be applied to the Border Patrol. The one particular area immediate area would be to review the use of force particularly the use of deadly force and to set standards at par with those recommended by professional law enforcement organizations and civil rights organizations. That is the fundamental question is why is there a double standard of the Constitution for border policing.

Thank you Mr. Garcia. Yes sir Mr. Martin I believe as it stands now San Diego has only 18 percent of the Border Patrol Force nationwide yet we apprehend about 43 percent of the apprehensions in the country. And I feel that some of this violence is attributed to the fact that the guides and the smugglers who bring these people across they're all familiar with the area realize how they can take us out of an area in another way or even circumvent us by keeping us occupied in one area and rocking as a means which their guides use. If we could augment the amount of manpower in San Diego and apprehend more people maybe the violence will dissipate with the amount of people attempting to cross illegally. Yes there is a problem. There's no denying that and I've mentioned that some agents have been responsible and have paid. There is so means there for this government to

address those problems to investigate and hold their employees accountable. Part of the problem that can't be addressed properly are the bandits who live in the area and abuse or take advantage of these people and I believe that's what complicates it more at the agency. Border Patrol is the only entity there that can be blamed for anything and seem to be broadening the responsibility. Thank you Mr. Martinez. I guess San Diego being one of the most difficult areas and more hardly impacted is that I think Seriously the shooting policies have to be reviewed and seriously changed because right now as it stands now we have several cases where people have been shot in the back simply for running from a border patrol agent. To me that's totally unacceptable and it's not within the parameters of their policy. The second thing is part of the solution has already begun to take effect in the suspending of the border crime prevention unit shootings are down now that they're not there anymore.

Take the last shooting was by Border Patrol in December of last year before that. They were I think it was one of a 17 year old boy who was shot and wounded and is now paralyzed in the back by border crime prevention unit. Now since they've been they think they've been suspended and reactivated three times in a different form. Now they're called a border crime intervention unit. But right now another area that this great of great concern to us is that still people are coming to my office who have been beaten over the head with flashlights and billy clubs for no reason at all. We're not resisting. Who are arrested and could have been detained and processed very easily without the physical abuse. How we can change that. I don't know we need to change and look at the training policies and the sensitivity in which border patrol agents are are trained and and and how they make these arrests. I don't know what the problem is if they're rookies or they're out there training or what. But I think that really needs to look be looked

at very deeply and that's the training of Border Patrol agents. Thank you Mr. Martinez Mr. Dorsey. OK. I talk to a long range solution. I think part of the short range solution is actually part of the long range solution as well. Our country has been collectively winking at illegal immigration coming and coming into this country. I started out in a border patrol in one thousand fifty nine. I spent 14 years in the Border Patrol. There was some violence on the border from time to time at that time. But but it it was nothing of the volume that it is today. And there are a couple of reasons for that. One is we did not have the drug traffic back then that we have now. And secondly we didn't have the volume of aliens that we have now. I think one thing in the short run this country can do is to.

EXPRESS As a matter of policy the fact that we are going to emigrate to enforce our immigration laws and we're going to do it with with vigor and that is something that can be done in the in the short run it does doesn't require any kind of a long run activity and then we need to follow it up with the determination and the determined effort that that would prove what our national determination is. And like I say the short run I think is part of the long run solution. Thank you Mr. Chairman if I could just make a brief comment I have other questions but I will not ask them at this time I may reserve the right to submit them to the witnesses. But just in concluding let me just say number one I visited the border at Tiana and. I. Was given a tour by the INS personnel. I'd say a year and a half or

so ago and I was overwhelmed personally by how understaffed they were at that time and feel doubt. One thing that we do need to do is try to beef up the resources that are available but I think that beyond that the point that one of you made either Mr. Garcia or Mr. Martin is made with regard to only 18 percent of the resources being in San Diego is a very very important point and one of the things that a number of us have been pursuing my colleague Mr. Tory's has been pursuing I have Mr. Berman others have been pursuing has been to get more resource allocation to Southern California with regard to a range of these areas. One of the exasperating aspects of a range of these issues has simply been that resources have not shifted to the direction where the problems have shifted and Southern California simply doesn't have the resources that are commensurate with the problems. But beyond that there's one other point that just strikes me from this hearing and I want to put it on the record and

mention it. I think there are some and I don't believe this is a policy but I believe there are some who believe that somehow if they are very very tough at the border somehow it might signal a message to people that they'll think twice before crossing and frankly I think that is an upside down and backwards attitude and one that will not be received well in the Congress we as a society as a country should be requiring fairness. We should be requiring a policy that is just and one that eliminates the type of brutality and inhumanity that has been occurring. And the sad fact is that this toughness falls upon innocent people who are not going to be deterred by overzealous and overreacting people either in official or in an unofficial capacity. And again I think the ship putting some light on this problem putting some exposure on this problem is important and it should be the exposure should be. Should include the message that this

type of brutality at the border from whence it from wherever it may come is something that will be very poorly received very negatively received. Here in the Congress and I Mr. Chairman will ask you to continue through your oversight capacity and through our oversight capacity in this subcommittee to put a spotlight on this issue and to ensure that we can do everything we can to ensure that those policies that are being enforced are enforced fairly and humanely and not in the type of overzealous manner that sometimes has occurred. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much Mr. Levi and we certainly will work along with you and cooperate in this humanitarian issue. TAURUS. Thank you Mr. Chairman I want very much at this moment to associate myself with the comments made by Mr. Loveline. I think his comments are on target. We as a nation had vilified and admonished other nations of the world the Soviet Union. South Africa

we have. We were very critical of East Germany at the time that they were also perpetrating these kinds of abuses we do it against Haiti. We do it against Cambodia and China et cetera et cetera. We as a nation who has been a trendsetter in the kinds of human rights standards around the world cannot allow ourselves to fall into this trap of also emulating those countries that have been maligned and mishandled their citizens and others. I'd like to simply ask this humanists in this case in your testimony you just state that the Border Patrol is is on a Mission Impossible you say it's it's a mission impossible in dealing with the complex socio economic problems drawing people across our border. How would you how would you miss the menace propose that this mission be focused. I would attempt to reorient some of the aspects of foreign policy that is in creating international migration

as a law enforcement problem or the illicit drug trafficking as a law enforcement problem. The only solution is more personnel and more personnel. Inherently this not tent problems that originate in a war in Central America. So we ought to attempt efforts for peaceful solutions to the conflicts in Central America. We should attempt to deal with the debt crisis and problems of economic development in Latin America. Rather than putting it on the shoulder of the Border Patrol to have to deal with these problems and I think that that is the essential contradiction. I've always referred to the Mexican-American community as the abuse community because patrolling is done within our communities but in our familiarity. Like most people who are abused the familiarity with their abuser

is that one is sympathetic to the agency because they are caught in the same structural phenomena that we're caught. That is immigrants must come to seek a better life. And the agents are there to stop them. But no one is addressing the problems of origin. And in the case of the illicit drug trade more emphasis should be placed on treatment education and the reduction of the demand side of the drug problem. And I think this is another area that that really needs to be addressed. A lot of the violence associated with the drugs. It's because it isn't illicit. Drug trade that is. And the problem of domestic consumption. So those are the two I think that's what where there is that unless there's reorientation of foreign policy in these areas then we're always going to be caught in the Border Patrol don't matter how many more they they place are still going to be caught in the dilemma of having on their shoulders

the nation's policy to deal with a war in Central America illegal drug trafficking and the debt crisis. Thank you I I know that the work of your committee and the work along the border and I've seen examples of the documentation of the case that you bring to forest I see photographs and video tapes of the brutality that's been perpetrated upon upon innocent victims. Well we talk about the border patrols. This mismanagement and the outright abuse in some cases it's been stated here. What about the other side. This is kind of a plague on both houses is it not. What do you know about the Mexican police or what do you know about unscrupulous individuals on the other side to prey upon these people. And how could we how could we as a as a government you as a committee U.S. citizens how can we help foster and impede that kind of activity.

We we. We by we I mean over 40 organizations on the U.S.-Mexico border on both sides of the border for in January of 1997 in El Paso border commission on human rights a non governmental organization to deal with the abuse of authority on both sides of the border. It is from these organizations that we have learned that there is abuse particularly of Central Americans but also many reports of Mexican immigrants within the United States returning home that are abused on their way home. I think that the solution here lies on a commitment to treat the problem of the abuse of authority on a bilateral level give it its

importance and then attempt as we are attempting to grapple with the issue on the U.S. side attempt to deal the same issues with the Mexican government and deal with some of the problems on that side of the border. One of the changes which we did see last year and it was interesting having myself been a Mexican immigrant a naturalized U.S. citizen but having had the experience of traveling back and forth between Houston to Monterey at least twice a year to visit family and dealing with port authorities I was very surprised at the changes of the Mexican authorities at least in receiving Mexican immigrants through the implementation of a program called program up by Sun in which. In all of the offices were placed large signs with an 800 number if we were mistreated at the port of entry so we were given little booklets on our rights and what we could both bring into the country what our rights were before a Mexican

immigration authorities and customs authorities and I checked with organizations in the United States of Mexican immigrants and most seem to feel that there was a change because there was public outreach in this area where I think we still receive some comments in the treatment of Central American refugees. But I think it has to be treated as a bilateral issue it's an important issue and searching for solutions. Basically in the same areas of developing policy some practices public outreach for the implementation of effective civilian complaint on both sides of the oar of the border. If your man is just an oh yes or no answer can you confirm the existence of vigilantes on the border. Yes. I think our office in San Diego has dealt with fictitious for right to march from Toledo yes or no answer are there vigilante groups yet rating. Yes in fact in fact I would like to elaborate just a little bit. We have

because I have been getting reports from as far away as Washington state of groups of paramilitary. Again I don't know what to call right now but we know that they are attacking undocumented people as they cross the border. Our last case was I heard about we're still investigating it with the San Diego Police and other law enforcement. But a woman who was raped last weekend and the husband beat. And before that I and I interviewed two undocumented workers in our city or county who were also attacked robbed and beaten in the same border area. And this last Sunday in fact I was called by the local CBS affiliate to comment on the attack of nine undocumented people who were attacked and shot walked two of them where one was shot and killed the other was shot in the face and made it back into Mexico and he was and they claimed that whoever robbed him was send in military fatigues. So there is something going on at the border we're not sure who or what but we know that there are some kind of groups

operating in and around sable County. Mr. Garcia in your your statement am I correct in understanding that you said just this was an unfounded allegation. Vigilante groups exist. Well. Vigilante it to me if someone takes it upon themselves to force too long then that activity is something different and bandits have been known to rule the border in fatigues or in dark clothing and without any reason of course just hit on a group and they use no discretion at all and that's a lot of females will take that group out of a lot of males they feel or won't resist. You call the bandits bandit activity yes but not vigilantes. No why. Well as I explained all the bandits are out there to rob for one so all purpose is just to fill their pockets and they in no way are are trying to not take the law upon and just going against the law. Now the Vigilante the recent publicity in the

media and the Press put out a report made by the San Diego PD where they found that these high school students were. Brought to an area supplied with equipment and directed more or less to do certain things and. I don't feel that's vigilante this just a bunch of students that were Levis and didn't use any more discretion. As a chairman I'd just like to conclude the last short question to Mr. Dorsey and in your comments about this attraction this magnet that tracks millions of people to our border you say that there has to be a long term removal of the job attraction. Who in your estimation is attracting. And who has to who's causing this large attraction that brings millions of people to the border in an effort to cross over. It's there's no real simple answer to that. We have a

disparity in economies between or the United States and our neighbors to the south of it. That debt in itself is an it is an attraction unto itself. In addition to that we have a we have a situation where they will they have promise of success. What they are seeking once they cross the border. Who promises success. The employers in the United States who hire their employers. That's correct. And we we have a on the books right now a law that then imposes sanctions against those employers for for hiring persons who are not authorized to work in the United States. And that as you well know I'm sure is under assault at this present time it is. There is an essential provision which is being acted on in Congress right now. My prediction is if that is allowed to sunset

we'll see illegal immigration at at levels that we couldn't imagine a few years ago. It's under attack because employers are refusing to hire American citizens who are here to be foreign not because they're hiring undocumented workers. I. Well I have read the geo report and I disagree with I don't think there's a place to argue argue the semantics of that General Accounting Office report. But there are there are measures that could be taken where employer sanctions could be fairly and properly enforced without any danger whatsoever of discriminating against anybody who who should not be discriminated against under the law. A proper method of identifying who is who is authorized to work in the United States and who is not is and would be a very simple measure to put in place in this in this day and age. And if that was done that employers

could very simply discreetly discern which individual is entitle to work in the United States and which one is not. And that's with some with some. The increase in in that ability we could have a very fair system of determining who may and who may not work in the United States and remove that attraction that is bringing millions to our borders with that promise of employment. Thank you Mr. Dorsey thank you Mr. Chairman I would ask unanimous consent that I be allowed to also submit questions in writing to the witnesses with me without objection in fact I was going to suggest to the panel that some of the other members may have some questions they like to submit to in writing and because of the lateness of the hour and we have to give up we have to vacate the room almost immediately. We would appreciate if you could respond to us in writing if they should have some questions. I want to thank all our

panel members for being here and they've given us the benefit of your experiences and your views and will certainly be very helpful in this very important humanitarian issue. Thank you very much for being here. Subcommittee stands adjourned subject to the call of the chair. Thank you Mr.. This hearing has wrapped up to see her. On border violence the subcommittee on human rights and international organizations didn't even super called me to come out of it a person does it's not Augusta. Plus a C on a I would b and c s so good and they love us I wouldn't just do it on a switch on the testimony of that but at the James Dorsey Guinness enough for the ration for American Immigration Reform FAIR on the Emmys as you'll get from the mystics you'll miss and that anybody meet on this in the form data. I mean this the money a little bit of a lot of the Miskin that a person in the front that he saw when he was gone by since on the it will stay must

remain as they all feel they have an equal. In San Diego a a minus one and then focus them on this as you have established in my your of the course of a. I love I can see that I put them in the front data in the form of people who skip poncy put it one as it would mean a person down to the little bush. They didn't even think a foot on the windows of the school meant that you say Trish I keep us in this but that if I said I would finish this which I would assume that list sort of evidence you benefit some on course this broadcast was. Partially funded by the American Friends Service Committee of the Ford Foundation. I'm gonna Jensen along with executive producers some we would like to think out a silly Garcia back in Fresno for assisting with this also.

Janetta Warner it is someone I think clearly the last part of this hearing was without doubt the most interesting when there was interaction between the congressman and the witnesses a lot of very interesting things came out. We did hear some possibility that. That. Means that the congressman were asking for ideas for various kinds of legislation that. Could possibly assist came from Congressman Mel the fine I thought very interested was going sense was on the. Fact that these kind of hearings would bring the spotlight on the issue and something good can be expected out of it and there was consensus on the need to assisting the agency. Border Patrol and immigration utterly station service with training with counseling with every by scene the codes in there

possibly resources to improve their practices. There was consensus on the need of doing something with a mi Gration and the trolley station service it is suspected that as a result of these hearing there is going to be also probably an investigation and. Most probably that there would be follow up their congressional hearings possibly feel hearings on the same issue. Almost all of these. I concluded that it does me feel like only got beat up out of this for the needs of the public I mean the idea of being with if it is not going to for me from the support of those and but people call me to this that we should listen I mean you know from the scene for a couple of dollars but I'm off we're going to Jensen my gut it was to look at it without a city Garcia and I promise you Mr. Wood Jenna Dorner you see a lot of people people some law school.