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They're pushing the souls who see us again as we show you having nothing to fear from please tell your family you can complain. Living through it annoys him he got no symptom of the gunnel I mean the CM didn't think I had a kid in the middle of the portal in the equation for tickets or date of the book because it offered to the families I said on one of them without one of them is when a person like you you know don't take the idea that if instead of this just you listen to this in the windows of the compass e-mails you thought a kiosk is one of the meals for the U.S.'s pretty eyes. Even tonight. Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to tonight's public forum. My name is Bill and I have the pleasure of being your moderator for the purpose for the forum tonight is to discuss the legalization program of the new immigration law as we all know the legalization aspect is over. The U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service is now proceeding to and of course several preserve provisions of the

Immigration Reform and Control Act specifically seeking to enforce control of the border. And this includes an increase in the number of officers that have been allocated and assigned to detect arrest and documented immigrants residing in this country. At the same time there has been an increased number of complaints involving conflicts between the U.S. Border Patrol agents and local communities. Some of these conflicts relate to the use of deadly force during arrests. This public forum is an attempt to facilitate discussion on these conflicts. It is intended to provide a place where immigrants will be encouraged to air their grievances and calm and present their comments. In addition we will be having community leaders as well as civil rights leaders who will have the opportunity to present their views. To the federal and local officials so that we can openly discuss the recommendations that hopefully will be forthcoming this

evening and bring about appropriate policies. The approach for tonight's public forum will be. That we will have a panel of federal and local officials and they are seated to my right and I will be introducing them in just a second. Another panel seated to my left consisting of community and civil rights representatives. Will is also present with us. And as your moderator we'll be attempting to facilitate participation of the members of the audience and encouraging queries or comments by the panelists. The audience yourselves will be able to participate in this forum by sharing your information through a microphone that is available on the floor directly in front of me. Immigrants who have had direct contact with a U.S. Border Patrol agents as well as anybody else who is concerned about the enforcement of the Immigration Reform and Control Act are encouraged to voice their

comments. Go on. Us us this. Us.

Then I said. But your sentence was your own.

Mr. Ford Oh it's my pleasure to present the members of the panel. We have Blanca to my right and she is with the regional office. We also have Mr. Castaneda who is the assistant to Howard is welcome. And he is located in the regional INS office and I want to get also. We have Mr. Don riding with the INS regional office in Fresno with the local office in Fresno. Deron why Rick why Rick here tonight. OK.

Welcome Mr. Wyatt. He's also with the INS office here in Fresno. John Crockford with the U.S. Border Patrol is also here. Mr. J William Carter who is chief of the U.S. Border Patrol for this region is also here with us this evening. In addition we have two councilmen from the city of Fresno. Mr. Chris Peterson and Mr. Les Kimber. If I forgot anybody I hopefully you'll let me know so I can add your name on my left. We have several community representatives and civil rights representatives. We have Mr. Lopez from the. Well that you know Civil Rights Network. We also have a lot of us who is a representative of the Democratic. This who is a community worker with California Rural Legal Assistance.

Mr Gilbert by the way volunteer with central. The Fresno immigration project. Mr. Roberto with. Mr. Starr with the American Friends Service Committee Mr. Romero the new director of President said county legal services and we also have Mr. Jess Lopez who is a supervisor of Madeira County. MR. OK. And we have also the American Friends Service Committee and we have from the top of that on which is a group comprised of about 50000 families in Mexico City. We also have in the audience the consul here in Fresno. I'd like to welcome all of the

public and official representatives as well as the community and civil rights advocates. And we will be having I think a very productive evening tonight and we will be sharing our comments hopefully honestly and with the purpose of seeking to make changes where changes are necessary as well as providing comments about how the law and the immigration laws are actually being enforced and where there is some room for improvement now. I believe we will start the next portion of tonight's public forum by having a statement from the Immigration and Naturalization Service regional representative Mr. Freeh there cost on the other. Yes. OK. Welcome my dear welcome. It was bloody I'm sorry. Welcome to this forum.

If we could have also approached the microphone at the appropriate time so that the translations need to be done. She will facilitate that I'm sure. I believe this one here. Is the best thing to do is for those people who are only in order to facilitate it was lation. I would like to have a group of people in one table together so we can summarize the present. I think it will make it easier for translations from English to Spanish. Perhaps I can come to the microphone and do it at that time. You could do it. I'm not sure. I'm just trying to do it. You would like to have or the group of people I mean in one table they will do the sum you want to want to.

Let's. Try to sort something out here for you radio listeners. This is the right way. In Fresno listening to a live broadcast at the community center in Fresno San Paolo Avenue just a little bit solace or a little bit north of Belmont. OK we're ready to resume tonight's program. We have arranged to have provide a simultaneous translation given that we have a number of people listening to this program which is being aired live through the air. Now I would like to have Mr. Castro provide us a

statement as a regional representative from the INS. Mr. Castaneda I hear all these ill. And that's the moment of the scene as people a premier of a story that the name of a person supposes your own. Part the super committee that we'll probably muster up money that you don't call the resort where Lost is a tsunami the premier or they're just going to give almost as they neared the West in order that the numbers Quattro in Los Angeles. Then you will see some Francisco some four say Oxnard Las Vegas

mass autumn and there are the new commission out here all these are your glasses. Yes mine is Fidel Castro here about. Relationship to work with me to go to the communities. I'm going to do a summary. But for the benefit of those that are listening to us. He has several. I think branches that will be serving the community community what i were newsgroup. OK in summary. He has been asked to do you know do outreach with the community so those problems that are facing immigration and the problems that

the immigration service is having will be addressed directly to the communities. Thank you very much Mr. Castaneda. And before proceeding I would like to let you know that we're going to have Mr. Riehl give us some introductory remarks. As I mentioned he is from Mexico City and an advocate for the poor. MR. Thank you very much. On the Douglas you know this case is going to for the honorable members that are attending this forum.

You could look at a problem either phoned or whatever sort of various touchy touchy on I think the problem the deep problem that we have to resolve this situation already and that meant that meant by yes or no yes to this but he said look you know many gun owners unfortunately happens in our countries like American countries mean to us and asked us but there is no you don't know what I mean. The Konami code but a study done it is the most are usually in the form of consequence here that was done to me this year on our lives there is a betterment of our communities we will continue to face their dirty ation of our communities and our problems. It was a limited solution on the phone the noice then we said Unfortunately this solution may not be too close to new yet the Utica poured into my jaw. But about all of this situation element and that took away most and their commissary So minus the elementary treatment that we must have between us as human beings.

A sort of respite to get along with it was a great choice. Is the respect in trouble respect that we have toward right. Human rights I mean accomplices. You know it's funny really that a lot of it pleases me to know that there is a dispensation for dialogue. Give us some more sinister the love of Congress onus on respite. Draw a line up or a lot recently and and we do it with or within reason with citizen consciousness so we can resolve it. Give almost as the U.S. and overseas because we will continue to be neighbors. Ever wonder at the end of the Long as the U.S. and we don't know for how long but we will continue to be neighbors told us assistant this but I can't but if you put on the underside testy morning all I would like to make I would like to call upon all the participants to give their testimony. From Tom was always seen as York's Panera. Last I was going to get rid of our fears and so we can

express all the abuses that we have suffered so they can no longer almost study almost complete at the end doing complete because if we don't do it we will be part of the problem we will be accomplices to this problem. Your this is a look at those noise they steam on you know to you know see of us it is quick show up in the middle. We have to know there are protests that our problems are going to be listened to are going to be heard. So therefore they're going to do your best and you know you look at us as he sent this process we don't want to switch on which of us and I agree with if you like us then you had all the participants have something very important to say and we all are willing to listen to them. Thank you very much and thank you for being here with us tonight. We have next to Mr. Powell the American Friends Service Committee Representative was going to make a few brief comments. This is a slight deviation from the tentative agenda that we

had. Mr Espinosa Would you care to take the floor. Whenever it must of course. And I must point out there's a set of well the more we want to rephrase that we want to restate me Jack because what I want to sort of the Border Patrol the let me get you on this is a great opportunity to say what we have to say because the Border Patrol are here. Yes important to us. It is important to expose you know to say two percent of our problems for them to listen for them to find solutions. But I mean look at Ramos and many others. Expound almost as a problem or something else.

That's why we should be courageous and expose this problem presents problems to them. Thank you Mr. Espinosa. We have had a statement by Mr. Castro. We have had some introductory remarks by Rio as well as a representative of the American Friends Service Committee Mr. Espinosa the next portion of this forum tonight will consist of testimonies and statements by members of the public. The needle is a bit of Mario. What I look at 4 0 0 0. Yes.

Yes. So I recommend you on this score. OK I'm sorry. We have a few words from Mr. Carter before we proceed with the public testimony Mr. Carter. I will speak in English simply because I feel that this lovely lady's translation will be more more specific and more perfect than my Spanish. I would like to compliment the three gentlemen that have spoken previously this evening and encourage everyone here that has any items of interest or concern that Mr. Crockford and I need to hear about. I encourage you to please step forward. Speak your mind honestly courteously professionally. And those problems to the best of the best of my ability will be addressed. And if they can be resolved they will be resolved. This gentleman here I'm sorry sir I don't know your name but Mr. Ashton also made mention that these problems needed to be brought to our attention

this evening and that we the Border Patrol or the Immigration Naturalization Service needed to rectify them. I would like to. Elaborate on that a little bit if I might. I think the best way to rectify. Yes ma'am. Before you know someone that we're going to probably most people look down to is that you know. I think that the problem should not only be listened to and rectified by the Border Patrol they are going to preliminary on this American all those goals that you have in front that I think they should be rectified by all of us to

sit here this evening as a group we should work together as a team to rectify whatever wrongs there may be very much thought that I would want to find out is already that the hospital really must go left. Don't Plan want to split up later somebody just problemas And I also encourage that the groups that have evidence that the Immigration Naturalization Service may have perpetrated some wrong. I encourage and and vehement about this that you please bring all your evidence forward so we can rectify the wrong air castle in their order. They let me go. I mean my goodness I get that I got a letter somewhere. Everybody in. This room is a human being. And has a right to be treated as such.

Also most of us Amano Sycamore thought is that in most of its losses regardless of their citizenship or nationality. And I promise everyone I promise everybody here that I will do everything within my power as chief of the Border Patrol for this area to ensure that. The problems are resolved to everybody's satisfaction but yes I want that he said if you're not a human lispro made me put it up a little bit is probably a must. Thank you very much. Following portion of our forum tonight I mentioned this is the appropriate place to have members of the audience come forward and present your testimonies or statements or concerns your experiences your comments whatever you have tonight that you feel would be appropriate for the public officials the governmental officials as well as the other members of this forum tonight to hear and discuss.

Yes yes yes bless you and they're there less than you are about us Davis. GILBERT. It. So you know it's. Possible. When I started this number this one cannot be a historic dumby and this is so you know me. There's a portal no meant to go on and we praise the noise. We were in English. There are circumstances I think I was a very good translation

in my country. Origin is not the best. Noise recorder. Yes. York at the university nobody's The North is not the reason why we have to come to the United States to immigrate to the United States. Anymore. And both Gus there were no board doing that. No that was versus then several were just for better opportunities those opportunities sometimes we find there are not there for us the door is closed. The North America you also espouse for me those mean I saw on the nose. There is I believe that is good neighbors. There is mutual respect between the two

countries. Easy to go last give anymore. So most of us is more than Quintus. Unfortunately those that come to the United States we are seen and they do treat us bad. Nor Strone this they need up to our. Our only crime is to come to United States to work. So for the most. Part the law simply orders. I was on the north. We suffered from the employers that knowing that we have no word we have a bad situation. They treat us bad also. But.

For those who have never lived could have those words in their minds. But I mean they need look because they were no doubt. Looking for a better opportunity. It's cruel. I always commented. Yourself. In one of the patrol. To me in particular I'm going to talk about those relations that I have suffered from the Border Patrol. But I have asked serpentine where.

We're going to have I WANT TO HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE YEARS OF NIGHT TO THE YEAR OF 1979. And the Border Patrol. Where. The critical. 1979 with the Border Patrol was a critical crucial one. Day. And also from sunny Seattle. When I cross the border very tall when I cross the border. And there's so many of those mosques and those gusts. I was coming to the United States with other. Fellow countrymen looking for that opportunity. Maybe on the loss of your own and I want to

implement the airport tower I was told officials didn't do anything to simply stop us back to Mexico. Or in me it was different. Maybe he saw us. He saw me he got no he never accept accepted the fact the fact that I was a Mexican national. Mayor was the only Protestant America. I was told that I was going to be sent to Central America. There's a document there me documents.

They list your information about where I was born in my date of birth. The minute that we get on board a lot of. US that gave this Boyce of us. Missiles. I was detained for a long time and after a long time I was free. The law also politically Your study the law. Ian promises are going to allow for the data to work is to get us out but out. But I was and I went back to my town but I knew that I had to come back

to the United States. Look a mouse and the moment I was a kid you see our lives are beside of their soup. Are you on some the onus and on our foremothers be allowed our consul to make this a lot but I will not. The worst part is your fish will treat you with Edinburgh and they treat you worse than animal. E.. Look at the eagerness a moment on a horse. These are now on all of this and not a lot of U.S. dollars put a lot of us on the case these are knowledgeable then our

seed of either suppose a door or north go no. Why it's better not to say anything sometimes because you were going to say something. It's even worse because then you're going to be. You're going to be beat up I was a lawyer yes was not really that of noise to human ears. Blabber about the line I'm not inventing anything this is the truth. And Gregory. Hall as mine was a Border Patrol. I'm going to talk about experience before when I was a patrol. I used to work at a gas station. The president was in the morning the Border Patrol.

You were the last 8:00 in the morning. Your M.O. on the spot it also happened when the. Myself I was hoping to have a good day. I wanted to work. I was feeling good so I went to work and Border Patrol never on meth doggo in the past the old commonly known. I was going through it wasn't it took me every place in the San Joaquin Valley.

The loss of U.S. dollars. The nanny companeros course is wanted to pursue someone people. See. I would allow the use of our laws or you know our best players. We have human beings. We finally are. There for three days. But it was cool for people to complete that it was

going to go to the border. Post they were meant to say complet we are here most of the people so we were sent back to Mexico. So I forgot to tell you there where we were. Our shoes were taken along with our belts. On our then. We were ordered to do We had to do it because they said had to be done so we complied. You see what I meant to

get in that. I would like to see a few more things but I do know there are other fellow brothers that want to say something they want to give their testimony. I only want to join you. It's my very first. U.S. story. The process of legalizing myself. A moment. We were told about the new law different when we're leaving right now.

This has been left to the elder of us not us. Prove you don't have the proof. You don't qualify. Gallup Poll asked are you. Yes we're almost compass the north. Equal to California is great. For those of us that work in the fields we have to keep in our work. It's very difficult. No I said.

A lot of other people were left on the program. Right now we don't know for sure what's going to happen. And therefore that's why I'm not in agreement with it. Also needles to make you the north. Are good neighbors or neighbors and we are brothers we're brothers. Those United States always talks about democracy. This is democracy. But I mean noise for me. Thank you. I think this is a good example of how we should be doing the translation I think that US is doing a fine job

as we invite people to come up to testify and give us their comments. Hopefully we will continue that where there's a little pause in between testimony. Is that safe. I'd like to invite the next person to come up and give their comments. And I think we have a. Gentleman back here also as this gentleman is coming up I'd like to mention that we had we do understand the INS officials do not make the policy they did not make the law. That's for Congress. And if there are some concerns about the law in general I certainly welcome those. It's appropriate tonight. But hopefully we can.

Concentrate on how the law is being interpreted how it is being applied and try to find ways to make suggestions about how this law can be applied in such a way that is respectful of everyone's rights. My name. Is. From door. Country. All of you know I. Have decided to come to United States.

We do it because we we do it to the military forces in our country. If we do it because we are told that. Or. They were bored. Sometimes we're that our worst

countries. Most. Of those. When I came to violence those acts of violence that I knew every country. I'm talking about a border patrol. Or. 1984 I cross the border line. It better or I'm going to get off the train. I see.

He starts out of them when. I wasn't around 3:00 in the morning. Yes but I really was in a bonus and that I would add to my new order for the Border Patrol to determine if there were people in the boxes. And because they saw us better. Fortunately I was not one of my friends some of my friends did. It's as if. People stopped.

Reading. But I don't. Care I don't cry but I knew what I meant. I was the last one to be. Made for my for the very heart. Donna started walking barefoot for the three hundred meters. I don't want to wear them when they took me to the central offices around 5 o'clock in the morning. You go to.

Me. I mean. Who my peers. May be called. Let's be honest. They want to do in private parts three times. It was not you I was not specific to all of us. But I

had to be. The better one. But I did I did other for someone who. Wanted a part of the war three times in every time. Several times it was thought OK this is all I have to say.

America flee the violence in our country. We find ourselves. We come to a place where a human right. Sometimes I just got the Marcy human rights are not respected and human dignity respected. A country like the United States. Thank you very much. Thank you. OK I think we have we're going to go out of the agenda just briefly and have a short comment from the INS representative.

OK we're still going to start court here but it will probably go anywhere dispersed at this point. I would like to state that we would like to if you like we could answer some of these questions at this time. But really if we if we want to if you want us to we don't take the time away from the public to larn this nurse. We're more than happy to go ahead and we have to the program and talk to each individual person if that's what you prefer taking the prerogative of the moderator I think that might be best I would like to take as much advantage of the fact that we do have people here and I'm sure many have traveled long distances to be heard and perhaps those that wish afterwards you could get together and answer whatever specific concerns they have. And neither does the stances but I started

out as that it was common to see where this was especially NCIS persona. Members by would have been awesome. They asked whether Medicare which are going to get a bit of a needle that the steam or new. Noise time not to you or your not you. But it's simply a choice. They could get in me at all and I can tell you that a lot of the people that could have attended this did not come because they are afraid. They're so honest gansey the month that thousand of us must noice Donaghey flippy don't vote eligible to get the emir the words they're going to get in a conference I know so what else they can one show that also does go more than the soonest. About how most what I mean must hint that you have to be confident that those people have not come to this forum because we know we work with them and they're not coming because they are very much afraid.

But I want to get them to your. Little pianist Petrolia the legacy on. It's good they would let him in there. But when I have those what do they care that because they know that. They can if we see a little border patrol. When they meet us you're on. My way out my way I said but if you're going to border patrol to me come in. They could Uncle maybe that all of us. Well give the point that what you get out hands yeah. Here's the cherry fear that your brother might wonder. If Michael Sauer they caught of course. Is a cow that God will save us. They would love me and it's not like it was on is I so outraged. Yes so it's been there. A gap there so now that's what I hope bollocks got a look at your Africa China Batiatus. I'm sure you don't doubt and you know that every special government official that commit a mistake.

Usually I'm talking about the FBI the police etc. is usually suspended from duty. While a seaplane a border patrol one dog. And I want to wait. So Leon if your car goes they know their choice. Oh my not for my serious. Why is a policy what is a discipline that the Border Patrol will impose upon someone who has been charged with violating the rights of someone. Just. Look at the Post Mistress bin also gave us. Presented as a question regarding the procedure that's used for investigating alleged misconduct on the part of officials

of the ins and specifically the Border Patrol. And I suggested that it would be appropriate to have a response at a later time to give you a chance to think of your response and also to to hear additional comments before doing that at this time I would again like to invite any person that wishes to come from the public and make a comment. This is the appropriate time to do so. I thought that if I want to make an offer and send you out. When a lot is noticed or to look at sort of my name he said What are your gas pedal. I mean I don't hear what he says but he's going in there in the back of the mental. I personally have had experiences with the personnel from the Border Patrol

PPC come into noise he gets a little play to it. Personally I have not to be you know abuse physically but I had been humiliated and I find that. I find that conduct accumulating. But I mean if you look at you there's something else that for me it's very noticeable. But I lost a lot of publicity has been given to the new amnesty law so we can go ahead and apply. This is a low piece you know because it companeros I

have gone to the immigration office. Personally I've been there and also in talking to some of my friends. You just put that book in for myself and the treatment that we have received will go to the immigration office is very rude. Lack of information. Very arrogant. That's all I have to say thank you very much. OK we'd like to have the next speaker and this time I'll get it right from the Equal Rights Congress. Thank you. What I'm about to present is a declaration from a young person who was not afraid to be here. We just live too far and works too long to make it to this hearing. I'd like to make that clear.

You know we know. From this study. OK. Livingston California. Daniel Gale said reseal they make it as you see on your roof on set then drive California. Don't extends you on that

say then say. Other two of a generally obvious career this year we went to the Immigration Naturalization Service for one of those many extensions to social service to the. Farm worker my wife in my son even went to the office legalization office that is located 7 force the infirmary. Dr Stockton California and they gave me a second to station for three months which is now going to expire on March the 14th of these year and it's going to be of value since I did receive their first extension. Yeah there are so RCA leavings then so that they don't know when they know when more they're still there but true yeah they mean us. Therefore they will all see that a winter

on what all see it there those be the only sense you have there. Yes they would answer. Me then. On my way back to Livingstone on Highway 90 90 more this though I was sitting by a law officer of the year a Border Patrol or the highway patrol because I was speeding and the officer winter with a number of figures in number 1 0 4 7 2 he asked me for my driver's license in my insurance. I answered him by showing him my identification and he took my identification. They are all part of the local more the years meaning those and those they meet as your own. To me that's your own and knew no this was but true yes and you also endorse a whole lot of my your. But all pretty tall they get by us eris. They make the

call or the you know it is the Guatemala. In this but me so far is that it is there by us. And said you were insane yeah me me so. I'll meet out of the hole if they paid me so yeah no serious Davin see that and that's the leg I guess not since the other money had. Its the Czarist battle they were almost arm on that. Hugh went to the Scarlet. Highway patrol went to the scar he talked about 10 minutes. Meanwhile the Border Patrol arrived in a very certain voice. One of the Border Patrol people. They were two of them. One was so young one and the other one an older one and the first one asked me Where are you from what country are you from Mexico I said no you're from Guatemala. Do you have a permit to stay in this country. Immediately I show in my permit as soon as he saw it saw it he said it was already a he had

already expired. And you say you are any illegal who is Mark in the government and its laws. When your lady here makes those things yawn not they see it will make going to stall for a day or where. But through yet the Camino is there the sea and all that you have is that the gutteral. Is probably that they list paddle. You don't even have a driver's license. You are under arrest and we're going to send you back to Mexico. Sir I said the legal the social offices I come from the legalization offices and they just gave me this extension noise not girl he answer he went to the he went to talk to the people from the Highway Patrol.

For me it in their words they were. They talked for about three minutes he came back and the immigration man said Give me the car give the car keys. This is not yours this is the property of the state. But three years ago I mean no it began. There was this thought but while North I mean would you go where the meat and cheese. Not bad though so you have almost zero thought of war else on your VCR. Alas you are the more their stock or not or thought as the lucky Seymour's dog always thought your chairman to another Iraq where you know everything when they see all the ammonia is that what put it in your room where you had the heat that they were a nominee I don't mean yes.

She went to the guy I would patrol with they talked for about three minutes he came back saying that he was going to take my phone or there I gave him my keys and they went back to the Border Patrol not to the highway patrol they talked for another five minutes after the as they left they went northbound the office through the Highway Patrol came back to give me my baby. Five minutes later after the Border Patrol left soon enough.