New Mexico in Focus; New Mexico In Focus; 509; Lines in the Sand: The Changing U.S.-Mexico Border, Part 2

Major funding for Infocus is provided by the McHughan Charitable Foundation, enriching the cultural life, health, education, environment, and spiritual life of the citizens of New Mexico. Last summer, the president of Mexico was talking about an open border, but have the events of September 11th slam the border shut. U .S. and Mexican economies depend on immigrant labor, but reform could be a casualty of this war. Find out what happens now. Infocus is next. Hello and welcome to Infocus.

I'm Archie Chapa. Immigration is one of the great American paradoxes. We are a nation largely made up of immigrants and their descendants, and we are fiercely proud of our diverse roots. Yet throughout our history, new waves of immigrants have often found themselves unwelcome in their new home, perceived as threats to the at -culture and livelihoods of the people already living here. The debate over whether or not to welcome new immigrants into a nation made of immigrants has never ended, and that debate has taken on a special urgency in the past couple of months. We had originally intended for this program to examine the importance of Mexican immigrants to the U .S. and Mexican economies, and to ask whether the immigration reform discussed by President Fox and Bush at their early September summit would successfully make its way through Congress. The facts are plain, Mexican immigrants living in the U .S. work crucial jobs that Americans are often unwilling to do. At the same time, those immigrants send billions of dollars back to their families in Mexico. As much as $7 billion were sent in the year 2000 according to estimates by the Central Bank

of Mexico. That's enough to make it the third largest source of national income from Mexico behind oil and tourism. The various reform proposals that were discussed in Washington were aimed at setting up a legal framework, allowing Mexican workers who now often enter the U .S. illegally to legitimately enter and work in this country. The fundamentals of the U .S. need for labor and the Mexican need for cash have not changed, but the events of September 11 have reshaped the entire political landscape and changed the nature of tonight's program. Before September 11th, there was talk of opening the border. Now politicians are talking about the need to tighten lacks immigration standards and increase border security. It's not clear that reform is dead, but its prospects don't look particularly good. Here to discuss Mexican immigration and outlook for reform in post -September 11th America, our guest, Gloria Nieto, chair of the City of Santa Fe Immigration Task Force, Jared Block, refugee

resettlement director for Catholic Charities of Central New Mexico, Pamela Kennedy, an immigration lawyer and legal counsel for the Mexican Consulate and Lordes Catalan, administrative officer for the Mexican Consulate in New Mexico. Thank you everyone for being here today. Gloria Nieto, I'm going to start with you. What is the outlook for reform at this time? Well, Arce first thank you for having me here. My opinion at this point is that we're in limbo, that there's no movement because the focus of government and government services and government funding has shifted dramatically since September 11th. I think it's an issue that still needs to be discussed. I think it's an issue that needs to be dealt with. It's affecting commerce all throughout on both sides of the border, not only the Mexican side, but the Canadian side too. So I think that eventually that we will have to deal with the issues of immigration and legalization and citizenship amongst the many varieties of people that live here in this country. What are some of the concerns that you have at this

point? Well, my big concerns are the lack of civil liberties, and in the yesterday's New York Times William Sapphire, who's a renowned columnist of the conservative bento, I wouldn't necessarily agree with, talked in his column yesterday about the executive orders that are going into basically rob people, any suspects of any suspected terrorist of a judicial process. So while we've heard all the things that issues affiliated with the patriotism act of losing civil liberties and concerning wiretapping and our email being read, this goes way farther because the end result could be that people are executed without a fair trial or without even a trial as we know it. That people can be imprisoned, that they can be put on trial in a non -American style court so that there wouldn't be 12 jurors or any number of jurors, and that it would be held

in a military court setting so there wouldn't be any necessity for a unanimous decision. So a person could be convicted of terrorism with two -thirds of the jury convicting them and then could be executed. So I think we're talking a much wider range of loss of civil liberties than just wiretaps and email. Do these laws assure greater security, though, for everyone? I don't see how. I mean, it's like we could be just pulling anybody in until those situations and it could become like in that McCarthy type setting where people who are just suspected are treated in a much different way than anybody else is in the system. And I think that that two -fold system exists right now because if you see that people who are undocumented can get deported for a DWI where that wouldn't happen, we have people in New Mexico with 21 to 25 DWIs who don't even go to jail, let alone

get deported or sent to a prison without legal counsel. Pamela, what are some of the parameters by which an immigrant can be detained at this time? Anybody who is an immigrant who is not a citizen in the United States can be detained for various reasons, for criminal offenses, for overstaying a visa if they're here on a visa. There are many reasons why people can be detained by the immigration service, and these were reasons that existed before the tragedies of September 11th. But now I understand that they can be detained merely by suspicion. Immigrants can be detained for seven days under the Patriot Act without being charged. So the federal government has seven days to figure out what the charges are against them, but the immigration service can hold those people for seven days, certainly. And these are people that they would suspect of some sort of terrorist

activity that they can then detain. But of course, none of us are going to know who those people are until the seven days of lapse and whether they were or were not involved in any sort of terrorist activity. They are then let go if no charges are filed against them. Jared, what kind of local effects have these changes had here in New Mexico? What I've seen from talking with our clients in the Refugee Resettlement Program, these are families from all over the world, including the Middle East, is kind of two responses, I would say. On the one hand, I've seen positive response in the community as far as people being interested and maybe who some of these faces are in our community they're not familiar with. But then I've also seen responses as far as quite being questioning and suspicious, maybe before being curious. And I worry about that response. We've had some particular instances that I've been involved in

where agencies in town have been questioning the legality of our clients being here. And in fact, in one case where they were accused of being a potential terrorist. So I think it really changes how some people are looking at immigrants and refugees in our community. And I think that's one of the casualties of September 11th is the suspicion, the kind of people looking over their shoulder at newcomers in our community with the suspicious eye. And I think that we all need to be aware of that and be proactive as far as getting information out in the press about who the immigrants and refugees are in our community. What rights do they have as well as the residents of our community? And it reminds me also of the discussions in California in the past years when they wanted to try to reform what they

said were their laws and restrict the entrance of immigrants into the state of California. And with Governor Wilson, as soon as he began his dialogue, it allowed people to say things that they might not have said before that. And so when somebody in power says something against a class of people, a group of people that allows other people to say that's okay and we can be more restrictive of the rights of certain people just by the way they look or their immigration status. And that's the danger of some of the dialogue that you are hearing now. Right. I was in California during the 187 campaigns and ran one of the only successful campaigns in Santa Cruz County that overwhelmingly did not support 187. And what I discovered is that we as Latinos had become the identified problems for the state based on what the governor was saying. You would see commercials with voiceovers of the governor saying they keep coming and they keep coming. And it's

like, you know what, we've been here all along. And so we've been contributing and we've been full partners in this democracy. And that's the thing that terrifies me too because it's like we keep hearing this analysis that's based on your evil we're good. You know, and that's not to say that we're, you know, it's just too simple of analysis. And I think that it threatens people's lives and safety to give permission like that. You know, locally the Sikhs up in Espanola have been having some problems and they went to the White House to talk about the number of hate crimes that their community has seen since September 11th. And so I think that it has some very real effects in terms of language that we use and how we identify people as threats. Has migration into this country changed as a result of this? Does anybody have information about the border from Mexico to hear whether or less people are coming, more people are coming, excuse me. I think in concert offices around the world, in US concert offices around the world, the process has slowed. I think it slowed down substantially around the date of September 11th and

it is picking up somewhat, but it is slow. They are doing more background checks. There is a list of specific countries and specific groups that they are looking at more carefully in terms of issuing visas. Oh, that's a worker. I mean, Joseph's low down and eventually we were talking, I was talking to Pam about this thing that we received calls saying that maybe the border was going to be close in Ciudad Juarez or something like that. But we never saw that. I mean, of course, the people steal those long lines. I mean, they have to stay in long lines over there. But they are still crossing and the borders didn't close. I think the economic impact should have been very, very wide if they close just the borders. And our relation right now is very close in terms of covers. So at that point, I think we don't have specific numbers on how it has

decreased, but with Mexico, I think it keeps on going, which is very important. People still need to come here for jobs. Not just for jobs. I mean, we are thinking just in terms of jobs, no. I mean, they also come for buying things, especially people at the borders. I mean, the commerce is very great. It does not come for jobs. They come also because they need certain articles, food or something that they think is better here than in Mexico. And they keep on doing it in both ways because some people here go to Mexico and eventually go to see the dentists, for example, the US citizens go to see the dentists because it's cheaper. So the relation be in, I mean, the relation continues, continues, it cannot. And I think that one of the interesting things that happened during the September 11th time period was that the big flag on the water side was flying at half -mast. And that President Fox called off the grito on the DSEC's de Septiembre. Some other fight we had to cause before. Yeah, but in solidarity, that it was

a very strong statement, I thought, from our neighbors to say, were there with you? You mentioned it. And I don't think everybody appreciated that. Eventually, I think our president was one of the first to say that he was sorry for what happened. So what kind of information are you giving people right now who are concerned about their status? In terms of immigration, I mean, well, the Consulate does many different things. One of them is giving orientation to them. Even orientation in what they have to do and what should they shouldn't do. In terms of immigration, well, we always have tried to advise them to get their documentation, to try to have a, to legalize their status or something. But whenever it's not possible, at least we have to advise them to be careful in the way they conduct themselves and to try to respect the laws. That's what we can do at this point. I think you were telling me earlier that anyone with a false idea would be in very big

trouble. Well, right now we are just advising them, please don't use, this has been always a problem because a person that carries a false idea, I mean, can have charges and go to jail for a certain period of time. So we don't want them to be in that situation. But especially now, we recommend them not to do that. The Mexican consular, the eventually issues, certain kind of Mexican ideas, which are the materials consularists, I mean, and we are also, our consularists has also been contacting authorities all over the, our district in terms of recognizing these as an idea of identification for the Mexican. So that's what we can do, I mean. Jared, do you have an information on the INS restructuring and how that is going to change now? I know that the, that Attorney General Ashcock announced restructuring this week. And probably Pam or maybe Gloria would be better to answer that question.

I'm not, I'm not completely familiar with the new announcement and what that's going to mean, I do know that the discussion has been about splitting the department into two different kind of directions, one which would be enforcement and one which would effectively be helping people to process their applications, et cetera. And kind of recognizing that the two have somewhat different goals and so really trying to be clear about that. And that's exactly what he announced that they would be splitting immigration services and immigration enforcement into two separate bureaus. Can you tell me what that's going to mean? I'm not sure anybody knows really what that's going to mean. I think the complaints in the past have been that the enforcement and the, what we call the adjudications side, the side that says here's the benefit, here's your permanent residents or here's your citizenship, and the enforcement which are the people who do the arresting of people who violate their status. Those two departments were very closely linked and maybe too closely

linked. And so I think that's one of the arguments to split up the immigration service into enforcement and to adjudications. I think the concerns about the proposals that we've seen are that the heads of those two divisions may not have the power that they need to get the job done and that the focus will be on the enforcement side to the detriment of the adjudication side or that side that gives benefits, issues the permanent residents or issues just visas for visiting or whatever are issues citizenship to people that are eligible. And I think that historically that has been the problem that more resources have gone towards the enforcement side and you can see like the specific operations that went into effect in El Paso and along with San Diego to your water border and you know the investment in all like the ultra you know the night vision goggles and all

that stuff that all of a sudden the INS had and was using to try to stop the crossings and at the expense of people who had been waiting for five years to become citizens and then their process getting delayed even longer. When I was on a I used to sit on a congressional committee on immigration and then another one on citizenship and that kind of like dealt with that whole issue of like how do you deal with enforcement and how do you how do you invest resources into supporting the people who have come here legally have gone through the process and you know want to become citizens and they wait you know so I think that historically that we're still talking about the same thing but formalizing it even farther so that it is too separate entities but I would hope that they would you know not put so much emphasis on just enforcement and you know because otherwise it's a very clear message you know it's like you know we don't care that much about you becoming a citizen. And it's an unfortunate time to be doing this. These decisions have gone on for years in the Congress, they're

years in the Department of Justice to split the agency and this is not necessarily the time to propose these splits when we're trying to deal with other issues in terms of terrorism and who are we who how can we better patrol or enforce our own laws the laws that we already have in the books how can we better enforce those to protect us from what happened on September 11th are we discussing how we could have done it better how we could have used the laws that we have we have lots of laws how can we improve the communication amongst agencies and not go directly to this issue of splitting a very important agency at a time when we don't have the time to sit down and do it with calmness and with some clarity about how we want to deal with our borders and our ports of entry. Well you meant to see the kind of the distracted emphasis on going after physicians in Oregon you know who are you know doing assisted suicide it's like is this an issue of national importance right now. And one

other issue it's important to keep in mind is it's not just the immigration service in fact a lot of the people that are being accused of being terrorists that instigated the problems on September 11th were in fact issued visas at an American United States Consulate abroad and that's the this Department of State that issues those visas so what kind of changes are being made within the State Department to tighten up their own rules so it's not to allow certain kinds of people to enter the country and not deal with these enforcement issues which in the past have been directed very clearly at the southern border of this country. There were three million undocumented Mexicans in this country how is this going to affect their status and three million oh no that's not that's that's too low well that's what some of the research that I did say it was three million undocumented how is this going to affect them

and will there be detentions and will they have access to legal representation they've always had access to legal representation minimally when there isn't when when the Mexican Consulate or when a private attorney gets a call from someone like that often there's not much one can do for them to prevent their being removed from the United States but they are always eligible for representation that they pay for themselves there are no public defender kind of groups that can represent people in detention I think that we were hoping to have some some new immigration laws directed at legalization of some people within the country I think those talks while they are still ongoing are going to take a whole lot longer to to come to some to create a law that then can be

passed and signed by the president so I think that process is going to take a whole lot longer than we had anticipated any other specific reforms that have been put on the back burner as a result of this no I just wanted to point out because it's important to what the bomb say in our case for example let's be used to go every day to check okay the persons that are going to be sent to Mexico and that's a way also to I mean try to help them in a way and try to see if sometimes in sometimes our coworkers have been able to stop certain I mean that they are sent back to Mexico when they have papers or they have all the things so we have been we had to try to contact somebody alloy or something to stop that so we are I think at that point we are going to have to increase in a way our our presence we've got about a minute and a half and I just wanted to ask

everybody around the table if there is any reason for optimism at this point to to feel that some of these reforms that work being talked about previously will still stay at the table and and any positive things happening gloriology go ahead you know what first can I just say I'm sorry I didn't mean to dispute your research I know that's fine you know I'm always an optimist at something will change I mean we didn't know what was going to you know that our lives were going to be so different when we woke up on the morning of September 11th and I don't want changes to happen in that manner but I I feel like you know there's always elections there's always a political process and if we continue to have our voices heard that I think that that we can cause change Jared I think I would add to that that in the wake of this terrible event one of the things that's happened is I have seen members of this community locally and nationally looking around to see who are the the unfamiliar faces in our midst as I mentioned that has had some negative connotations but it's also

had some some positive outcomes there are people asking who are the Sikhs in Espinola who are the the Muslims in Albuquerque or Arabs who are these other faces so I think that's been very positive and interest in the other and unfamiliar Pamela also if you can have if you have any information of where people can get information if they need legal assistance if they if they find themselves detained I think if they are persons from Mexico they can certainly call the Mexican Consulate and Lordless can give us that information I think other than that that people who are detained ought to call or to exert their right to make a phone call and call their family members and or call their attorney have their family members call an immigration attorney make sure they know what their rights are and not waive any of the rights that they might have I'd like to add though one thing about the immigrant community I fit that those that I deal with on a regular basis I think they're very pragmatic I think they're very hopeful and I think they were all pleased to have been in this country

and been here to support us during these awful events of September 11th and I think the immigrants in New Mexico are hopeful that with the help of all of us that they can remain here and can be safe and can become citizens eventually well we have to end it there we out of time thank you everyone for being here today thank you that concludes our program for this evening tune in again next week for another edition of Infocus a Marci Choppa for everyone here at Infocus good night to respond to this program receive weekly email previews of the show or to find out more about Infocus visit the Infocus webpage at www .canmtv .org major funding for Infocus is provided by the McHughan Charitable Foundation enriching the cultural life health education

environment and spiritual life of the citizens of New Mexico additional support is provided by celebrow natural fiber clothing located in Albuquerque's historic knob hill to purchase video cassettes or transcripts of this or other episodes of Infocus call 1 -800 -328 -5663 or write the address on your screen please specify date and subject of the program you you