The Advocates; 322; Should We Support The National Lettuce Boycotts

Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the advocates the PBS fight of the week. Tonight's question is posed to the consumer and specifically the question is this Should you support the national lettuce boycott. Arguing in support of the proposal. Is money. I don't go I'm. A businessman from Los Angeles and a leader in the Mexican-American community. Appearing as witnesses for Mr. I want to go on Dolores Huerta of the United Farm Workers and Father Eugene Boyle of the Jesuit School of Theology in Berkeley. Arguing against the proposal is John Harmer Republican state senator from California. Appearing as witnesses to Mr. Harmer. Our Paul England a lettuce grower from Salinas California. Father Michael Cross of Salinas and William Grammy of the Western Teamsters. Ladies and gentlemen may I have your attention please. Moderator Michael Dukakis's just called tonight's meeting to order. That evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome once again to the advocates from Boston's historic Faneuil Hall which happens to be in the heart of Boston's busy open air produce market. A

fitting set setting in a fitting place in which to debate tonight's question should you support support the National let us boycott advocate Manuel. I've gone says yes. And the great boycott you helped says that job has been the growers. Now the lettuce growers have made a deal with the Teamsters to try to stop his own jobs and he wants your help again. Boycott lettuce. The. The. Advocate John Harmer says no. To support the boycott is to support a social movement that is itself exploiting the workers. This not only hurts the worker but the grower and you the consumer as well. The answer is not a boycott but legislation which protects all parties within their rights. Thank you gentlemen. Ninety percent of America's iceberg lettuce is grown in California and Arizona. It is picked by hand by some 15000 farm

workers most of them Mexican Americans. Like all agricultural workers these men and women were specifically excluded from the latest labor legislation of the 1930s which was designed it did promote the growth of unions and other industries. In fact that exclusion explains in part why past efforts to organize farm workers have largely failed. Today the situation has changed largely because of the leadership of say such as leader of the UFW of the United Farm Workers in the late 1960s Java successfully organized California's Great pickers by strikes pressure on the grocers and by a national consumer boycott of table grapes. In 1970 Chavez the United Farm Workers turned their attention and shifted their emphasis to lettuce pickers. But they found no opposition in the form of a rival union. The Teamsters who for years had represented workers who operate farm machinery and now we're trying to extend their membership to include field hands. A large number of farm owners signed contracts with the Teamsters largely because they regarded the Teamsters as less of a

threat to their traditional rights of ownership and management than the United Farm Workers and so a bitter three way struggle has developed. Faced with grower opposition a powerful rival union and the prospect of legislation which might restrict its efforts. The United Farm Workers have now begun a campaign to arouse public support for its cause. This is a head of iceberg lettuce as a part of that campaign consumers all across the country are being asked to buy it or not depending on whether it has the Black Eagle emblem the emblem of the United Farm Workers. And so tonight the Advocate's addresses this question to each of you just out of gone why should consumers support the national lettuce boycott. You know 200 years ago some men gathered in this place. To proclaim their rights. And it's very fitting that we're here tonight. In the same place to reclaim the rights. These very same rights for men and women

and children in the lettuce fields of California. The growers have always fought. The efforts of farm workers to unionize themselves and it is only until such time as came along that that resistance was broken. And you help them with a great boycott. It was ironic that on the very day that the great boycott was ended 27 lettuce growers in Salinas rushed suddenly into contracts with the Teamsters and signed their workers over to the Teamsters Union says that Chavez had asked for elections before those contracts were signed to see which union the workers preferred. But he was ignored. Which I was called a strike and 7000 lettuce pickers responded and shut down all lettuce harvesting and that's stuck. Until a local justice a local judge stopped it broke broke it with an injunction and then says that's not his call for the boycott it was his only way of breaking through the power of the growers and their control over the local judges. He went to the California Supreme Court and two years later that

injunction was knocked down that it was too late. The strike had been broken. It's an awesome job as need your help out you want you to boycott lettuce. And here to help us explain what what the lettuce boycott means we have our first witness. This is all it is worth. One of the. I. Wasn't aware that the Ford thank you as workers work for 20 years alongside such others and defending the rights of workers and she's vice president of the United Farm Workers and this is what the. Heart of farm workers. Need their own union. Farmers need a union because they are the lowest paid people in terms of their wages in the country. Farm workers feed the country but they don't earn enough money to feed their own families and this is why they are struggling to get a union. Farm workers have. A higher. Child mortality rate. One hundred twenty percent above the national

average. The average earnings of farmers in the United States of America. Is only fourteen hundred dollars a year. And this is why farm workers need a union is what do you how do you know that the farm workers support United Farm Workers Union. In every instance where we have had a fair secret ballot election the farm workers have overwhelmingly voted for our union. The farmers have come out on strike time and again in the citrus industry in the grapes in the lettuce. And the strawberries. Asking for the farm workers to represent them for the union of Cesar Chavez because the farm workers want their own leadership. They want their own union. They want to be able to determine their own destiny side from these very important things. What benefits to the farm workers get from belonging to the union. Since our union started in 1065 when we had the first great strike in the lane or the wages of the farm workers in the grapes have gone from 80 cents an hour but they were earning then to over $2 an hour. The farmers now have their own medical

plan which is paid for by the employers. The farmers have their own clinics. The farmers have toilets. In the fields they have drinking water. And we have union contracts they have protections from pesticides and this is one of the very important issues because the farm workers are tired of being poisoned in the fields and we have a recent incident where over 40000 acres of lettuce. Were poisoned were contaminated in the Imperial Valley. And only in those places where the farmers have raised the voice of protest in St. Louis and Chicago and Los Angeles in Oakland where they found that the content of the contaminated lettuce is now being found by the Food and Drug Administration as were the one of the provisions in your contract was for a hiring hall where you provide the workers to the growers What's the advantage of that for the workers. This removes the exploitation of the labor contractor who charges and gets a commission for the. It's really like us a slave driver and we're trying to end the system of exploitation so the union furnishes a hiring hall which it does not cost the employer

anything or the worker anything where they are referred to their jobs. Tell us about the boycott now a boycott is a very difficult thing to organize. Why have you undertaken such a difficult task. While we feel that the boycott is the only nonviolent way that we can get justice for farm workers our strikes are continually broken by injunctions of the local courts who have strong support and all of our strikes are broken by these injunctions and so we have to then go to the consumers of the country and ask them to get social justice for farm workers through the nonviolent means of supporting the boycotts as they did in the Great. Now if a consumer wants to support a boycott what can you do maybe have a party. But we feel that the supermarkets have a tremendous amount of control. They have almost a monopoly control over purchasing. We feel that the supermarkets should have a corporate responsibility towards people and that the consumer should be given produce that is picked under sanitary conditions where there

is the United Farm Workers contract that we do have these conditions and one way to tell us of course if there is a United forward label which is similar to the eagle that I'm working on my point and which appears on least on RRAP lettuce. And I'm selling this company here is a sign a contract to the farm workers. Yes actually our harvest company is the CEO here I believe of the Exodus. And I would say that if people are in doubt about if they are in doubt that they should not buy any lettuce at all any iceberg lettuce at all this is a very easy way. For everyone to help farm workers get social justice because we know that we can't be successful if everyone will help us. Now you want to take in a boycott against chain stores especially Safeway why have done that. Well we've done this because a MP and Safeway are the two largest chains in the country. Safeway on the west coast name on the East Coast they have refused to stop banning lettuce even though they know that some of the lettuce is I say that they have handled is contaminated over 7000 crates of lettuce that was contaminated with monitor

for which is a very toxic poison similar to Parris Island were uncovered in Los Angeles only 2000 of these crates were buried the other 5000 have not been accounted for. The same thing happened in Oakland. And yet they have not done this over in St. Louis they found a whole carload of contaminated lettuce that was going to the stores in St. Louis what is the union doing about this. We are going financially we're we are bringing this to the attention of the consumers and we think that this should not be kept hushed up at the Food Drug Administration should be truthful to the public about these very dangerous situations that are exist in the lettuce fields farms were let's turn to Mr. Herman who has a question for you to her what can we stay there please thank you. How many growers does your union have contracts with several hundred how many lettuce growers miswired lettuce cores we have been able to get the inner harvest company the fundament company fresh the company under contract through our boycott.

You currently have contracts with at least two growers than right and one of them is their harvest. No three goes I think you're mistaken. Three little screw ups I happen to have here your Would you leave the box there. Thank you. I am have here your contract with inner harvest. And I am have here the Teamster contract with some one hundred and seventy growers in California. I don't like to talk to you about these two contracts and would like to have another box brought up here a box which is from one of the growers where the Teamsters union represents the workers. Now under your contract missed order is there a pension plan. The daughter is not a pension plan. So under the contract where that led us was Pitt there is no pension plan now that under the contract for this let us pick. This contract there's a very generous pension plan. I don't think anyone has ever seen that pension plan Senator HARMER I think it's a myth. Well the word happens to be administered by a trust. It happens to be that in fact it's so generous that any worker who comes to work for one of these

forms gets two and a half or gets 18 and a half years credit. If he has worked that long for a grower he could retire under the provisions of that contract within two years after it's been signed but let's go on miswired and let's find out. Senator I'd like to respond you don't ask questions I ask you never let me ask do you have a response to that is yes I do because I know many cannery workers that are covered under that same pension plan that have worked under contracts for 20 years and have never seen their pension. All right as long as they're still working we'll leave it to another witness to answer that. This is where under your contract is there unemployment insurance provided for your workers. No there isn't Senator but there is under the contract that the workers who picked that lettuce are being paid under so now we have no pension plan and no unemployment insurance now. Well I'd like to respond to that Senator Harman because you were one of the leaders in the Assembly I mean in the state Senate that voted down. The unemployment insurance coverage for farm workers and as we know Governor Reagan vetoed the bill that.

I. May I remind you that in a contract which the Teamsters signed with the preliminary company in 1066 with some great workers there was unemployment insurance provided even though California state law didn't provide it. When that Teamster contract was turned over to your union the unemployment insurance was taken up. So finally both of us have some real problems with unemployment insurance down there as the time started on the farm workers and the theories of how given all of their workers on American women unsure of the word letter answer the question or make response was worth a brief response. Yes under the preliminary contract that the Teamsters have. Not one farm worker was able to collect the so-called unemployment insurance and so we put that back into the contract in the form of wages and at the end advocation paid as a thank you this is where the one final point. I've compared the wage scales under these two contracts. I find without exception that the workers who pick that lettuce the Teamster union workers

are higher paid than the workers who pick the inner harvest lettuce. And now one final point I'd like to respond to that said ways do but find that if you went to Salinas to Calexico that the contract that you were holding is a fraud and not one farmer that is getting the wages that are listed in that contract. I say well that's interesting that you know that are the workers under your contract getting their wages they certainly are Senator. And we have a right to be this procedure in case they don't. This is why the U.S. very concerned in your opening comments about elections. And as you have correctly pointed out you and I have met before in the California state legislature on one of those occasions when we met a piece of legislation which I was not the author. Having to do with giving the farm worker a secret ballot was under discussion. You said and I quote from a newspaper account of your testimony against the legislation giving the farm worker the right to vote quote they don't know what an election is they don't understand democracy unquote. You said this with reference to Assembly Bill 964 by Mr. Cory in

1971. Now it seems that you're very very disturbed over the lack of elections having to do with the teamster contracts in Salinas. I'm curious as to when you changed your mind about the voter about the workers ability to engage in an election. I have never changed my mind Senator our first election which by the way was yes I do my best to state and I'm trying to answer your question Senator. Our first election that we had with the Georgia corporation and we were on the ballot. The Teamsters were on the ballot and we overwhelmingly won that election. The bill that you are referring to AB 964 was a bill which prohibited the union shop which took away the boycott which put a person who supported our boycott in jail for a year or a $5000 fine and which in his final performance Proposition 22 was overwhelmingly defeated by the voters of California two to one and the last general election. May I remind you Mr. swear to that in that very hearing when the chairman of the committee said to you. What type of legislation will you support. You said Absolutely none.

You said we will not come forth. Senator I am here present and I can speak for myself and we will definitely support legislation will that will give the farm workers a union went on that we would want the same kind of legislation that allowed the Teamsters and other unions to organize which was the Wagner Act which allowed the unions to have the right of boycott we think this is a very sacred right. And all we are asking for is to give us the same rights that the other unions had when they were organizing a stalker I'm sorry we've run out of Time Square thank you for offering of your wife I'm sorry. Thank you. I. Of the lattice work that pointed out that the legislation the senator was talking about was turned down by the voters to buy one and a half million votes a California voter turnout it's a piece of legislation he was talking about. Our next witness is Father Eugene Boyle on the boy. With

evidence. That it was based on the Boyle is a director of the justice and peace. Of the National Federation of peace councils. Father Boyle Why do you personally support the farmworkers and the boycott. One that I should start off personally by saying that I have been associated in one way or another with the farm workers and their struggles since 1965 and I support the Farm Workers United Farm Workers led by Cesar Chavez and Doris word and others because I see it as the most viable instrument for the realization of the principles of social justice that I stand for and that others of other religious groups stand for. I believe that this that this Union with its emphasis on the dignity for the individual for independence for the person who belongs to the union. This this this Union with its insistence that the workers have a right to participate in decisions which affect their own lives is the best means an instrument by which workers can finally break the last vestige of feudalism in this

country. Do you think that this is with us. Think United Farm Workers and says that Travis would have the broad support of the clergy unless they were nonviolent. You know I say that the reason that they do have the broad support and I would say that that the support given to this. Social Movement and I'm not afraid of that term after all labor was one time called a movement. What's wrong with the labor movement social conscience after us nothing wrong at all but I'm what I'm saying is that there's never been an instance there's never been in my knowledge of the history of labor in this country any instance where a movement like this has received such universal support from the clergy and that goes across the board. I don't say that it's complete or total that will be you know brought out to you this evening but nonetheless it is quite universal in California and throughout the country. Why do you support the farm workers and the Teamsters Union. Well I don't believe that the Teamsters really represent

the farm workers. You read a lot about the jurisdictional agreements that were reached between the workers and others between the Teamsters and United Farm Workers. All the ones that happened under the bishop's Committee. I would just like to point out that I would have the boil what was the bishops committee would tell us. Yes the bishops committee on on farm labor is a committee formed by the United States Catholic Bishops and has been instrumental in being mediator negotiator in achieving the contracts between the United Farm Workers and the growers particularly as unbiased elects several elections have you supervised several several elections. But I just wanted to point out that I was involved in the first and as one of the mediators in the first attempt to establish some kind of settlement between the Teamsters and United Farm Workers and that was in 1066 the probably Minetti affair by Joe Glazer followed by feel myself for the negotiators at that time and it was about time that

the Teamsters took over a kind of. A A small group of farm workers in San Jose and more or less have sume them under their heading in the care of them Teamsters represented the workers. They never were representative of the workers as one had much confidence in them in other words we were allies and I believe I think that I really don't and I really think that the and I don't speak of all the Teamsters Obviously I'm speaking of I'm speaking of those I know in California talk about the Western condom talk in particular about the Western Conference and I'm talking about when the witnesses hear Bill Grammy I'm not trying to universalize this at all but I mean the Supreme Court decision is I think pretty well. Listen I will explain Supreme Court decision just a moment I want to make sure we get to the practice of labor contractors now what is a labor contractor and what was your objection to I think that Mrs. brief answer please. I think Mrs. Wortle brought that out. It's a labor contractor is an expert you know exporter of labor he picks the workers up. Of you know from the pool of labor he charges a commission to the farmer. He also takes cuts off

the wages of the worker. He just only does is deliver workers where wherever happens to be to the grower. He has no responsibility for his body or to know that he's a body is a body merchant or he has a paymaster also and keeps the money that he wants for the boy let's turn now to Mr Herman West questions for her Father Boyle. You are familiar with the recent Supreme Court decision in California which held that these contracts executed the tween the growers and the Teamsters were legal. Are you not. That's right. There's no doubt in your mind that these are legal contracts are legal but they're legal contracts under California law against does it because California has no legislation that deals in a organized way with with the SES or so the US now Father Boyle as a member of people like you do Mr. Harmer as a member of the clergy you express some moral concern in this issue. There's your moral concern go to the truthfulness of the representations made on this issue. Of course it does good then you may have noted that tonight as people enter this hall they were

hindered handed this flier by the representatives of the Union. The flyer says in it among other things that the teamster contracts were recently declared by the California Supreme Court to be fraudulent. I don't think your lawyer or your Father Boyle. Or are you. A lawyer he will oil noir what Nancy you know I'm not a lawyer. Now then I don't expect you to know the legal meaning of the word fraudulent. I'm not sure it makes any difference what I believe just a matter of your own life well he's asked me if I know the legal meaning of fraudulence Oh yes I do I do. I do not I know what the fuck I want I know what fraud means in ordinary common language in ordinary I don't write it has been perpetrated often enough you know. What does fraud or even ordinary common language to you Father Boyle are these Teamster contracts fraudulent from the bill and the teamster contracts I would see in the words of the Supreme Court as the flyer says. Well I would say I would say this about the Supreme Court the the supreme what the Supreme Court said it said it could not declare these contracts invalid

illegal. That's right because there is no particular job however they are however fraudulent However they clearly indicated in the in their statement that there was you know this this whole matter of the ultimate favoritism that was a that was a woman. Now your concerned are you about the fact that the Teamsters contracts were arrived at without a voice of the worker. That's right. Where was your voice of concern when the day before in the land of 26 growers signed with the Chavez union without any voice of their workers did you raise your voice in concern then. Well I mean first of all I would have to. I would feel that it was done in the same way I would have to see the facts about that. You are unaware of the fact when you participated on the bishop's ad hoc committee 20 cigar growers are going the way that we want to. Let's get some without a voice of the word Let's get something clear. I am not a member of the Bishop's Committee let's make that clear. All right. You did participate. They do not according to your own words in the negotiations between the growers and I workers.

The first one in 1966 are wired to the formation of the bishops committee. Let's just then get to this one simple question Father. Is there any difference between the July 28 contracts between the union meaning the farm workers the Chavez Union and the lino with 26 great growers where not one worker election was held before they were signed and the July 29 contract in Salinas between the growers and the Teamsters. Is there any difference. There is a great difference for first of all there are other ways of determining you know the representation of a union and the fact that it has the support of its workers and simply the election. As you well know even under Taft-Hartley law the idea of a card check and also even a strike is a clear indication that a union has the support of its workers. You are alleging that one of these things took place. Yes I did. I am alleging that took place.

OK let's just stipulate your answer and move on you made in your opening statement. A reference to the fact that you thought here was an organization which enhanced the dignity of its members. I'd like you to tell me of your fatherly concern about that organization as I read to you this account from the Friday January 12 1973 Imperial Valley Press regarding one of the workers. One of the growers against whom that union is striking and it says quote. Today are ego brothers workers in a field northwest of brawling law were injured at about 9 a.m. today when a roving band identified by company spokesman as United Farm Worker pickets suddenly attacked the letter's crew struck in the back by a tree stump was Paul Gary a crew supervisor for the company. Gary was taken Pinter's Memorial Hospital. A second worker was cut on the arm by a knife it was reported but remained in the field at work. There have been since the first of this year more than a dozen documented instances of violence perpetrated by that union and its dignity against these workers.

What is your feeling about that five willing to debate any time with you or the United Farm Workers Union has it is its attitude toward nonviolence and its attempt to achieve nonviolence. Not perfect of course is on present precedented in the annals of labor history. In the. Than great question. Please remember in a brief response from a yes or no answer have the National Conference of Bishops of the Catholic church endorsed the lettuce boycott. They have not it they have not to the community itself as. Thank you for the world. If it. Were than. Than Well the one thing that the senator didn't tell you that Imperial Valley Press from the Impaler Valley of California where the most reactionary years in the whole state and I know because I grew up in that town and that place is not a very reliable source of information for the kind of information reporting. Than you have of them. Keep this in mind also he's

going to talk a lot about those contracted teams and the growers. The California Supreme Court said this and I'm talking fast as I'm out of time. From a practical point of view an employer's grant of exclusive bargaining status to a non-representative Union Mr Grammys. Must be considered as the automatic form of favoritism. Completely substituting the employers choice Mr. Edmonds of unions for his employees desires and that's what the Supreme Court said it said it was the employer's choice of union for his employees. Than. Of the. Interest I go on for those of you at home or watching us may have joined us late starter going and his witnesses have been supporting the National let us boycott of the United Farm Workers and now we're going to turn to Mr. her merc his witnesses will poise a pose that boy comes to her. To pick up on Mr. Oregon's last point. Everything he said about the goose goes for the gander because that's exactly the way they got all of their contracts.

Of them. You're being asked tonight to boycott letters that has not been harvested by the United Farm Workers. You have been told deceptively that if you will do this you're supporting a union that is not true. Ninety five percent of the lettuce harvested in this country is harvested by union employees 90 percent of those union employees happen along the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. Five percent of them happen to belong to SES or Chavez's Union. In effect then you're being asked to boycott one Unions led us in favor of another unions let us you're being asked to decide between two unions and we submit to you that is not what the consumer ought to be doing. It's what the worker ought to be doing. A boycott will simply undermine the work of a union which has already achieved greater benefits for its workers than has the union which is asking you to engage in the boycott. That union spends its time in Dayton and boycotts social causes

and the deification of its leadership. To tell you further why you should not support the boycott I call my first witness of the evening. Father Michael Cross of Salinas California. Of the. Radical Right. Everywhere the. Father crosses a parish priest in Salinas he was born on a farm in the San Joaquin Valley of California is the work of the farm workers all his life. Farther cross I want to read to you some statements from a flier that has been distributed in front of some of the ANP stores that will be boycotted in the next few days and ask you to comment. From your personal knowledge with farm workers on the truthfulness of these the average income of a family of four working full time is twenty seven hundred dollars a year on the books. This is for. A lettuce picker in the Salinas Valley can make as much as $10000 a year. The average is between seven and eight thousand.

Thank you Father Boyle Here's the next her father. They all look alike. It says a hundred workers are killed per year as a result of the misuse of pesticides. According to the official records for the state of California. There have occurred no deaths among farm workers due to pesticides since 1968 to the present. You heard Mrs. Ford of great concern about pesticides that there were eight hundred people killed a year in California for pesticides are in the world in the country. Surely 80 of those 800 would have to live in the state with a tenth of the population. Yet you tell us that the State Department of Health says how many died of pesticides. None none. I wonder where all the others came from and I named. My father because I'm about to show you some film that serves of California a California farm workers who talk about their experiences with the United Farm Workers and Cesar Chavez. He gathered like a whole bunch of cattle

and we were told either you sign or you get out of the farm. And now we have to work. He can only to make but at least to me when we only would about think they have an omelet. But I want to say what I want to think. How they can tell magnet thing. I'm going to save and run. Somebody in the planet that was the president talking about that. I don't live in communist countries. I have been threatened by gun pong that my life has been fate or what I say but I believe that if I can say that. You know I'm not an American British. And. Other cross why are these people so it doesn't sound good with a civilian. Well they make less money for one thing. They. Are discriminated against in the hiring hall which belongs to the Union operated by the union and I think they're sick and tired of the revolutionary

aspects. There. They dislike being harassed by the should be status and I'm sorry for the what the should be the supporters of Chavez which they are not all these farm workers or people who are looking out for the interests of the Union and not the farm workers rather cross ones. Time for one last question. In August of 1970. You found it necessary to go into the lettuce fields and work with your parishioners in order to protect them from some violence. Would you tell us what the circumstances were that led you to go to the lettuce fields and work briefly thought I went out into the fields for a week primarily to give the moral support to the farm workers who were being intimidated by the Chevy's dish and the renegade clergy that came into our town. I was pelted with rocks right. With the farm workers Father Boyle wasn't one of the Renegades wasn't I don't think father comes in for the fights. Thank you.

I don't call in Frankfurt for a ride through the formulae we have to let Mr I like now that I'd like to though I wouldn't want to be there in your chair either. Are you saying Father Krause really that farmers are just doing absolutely fine to make him play money. They're happy they don't need a farm in what I'm saying is that the farm workers in this case exist for the union instead of the Union existing for the farm workers you don't think they should have a union. I think they have a right to organize I think they have a right not to organize if they wish i think they have a right to make a choice between unions. Now you know a boycott is simply a way of coercing a farm worker into a union which has already proven itself Arry sponsored irresponsible and disrespectful and a hardship to the farmer to have a hotel a day. Off through. I mean how can you tell we're getting hotter I mean you know of course that film you you showed you know who made that was made by the American Farm Bureau Federation. Hardly an objective party in this case.

And I think it was made by the Farm Bureau they produce I don't think there are traces of any farm workers while they were at work just as a union here right. Pacey exhibit A for the farmers paid for boycotting that film was expensive to produce and so on but let's not dwell on that. Ms Mendoza was one of the people in that film but I did and also Did you know that the missing dozens of labor is in the labor contracting business. Notionally law to find out because she her husband I believe all her husbands in the eyes of yours sure Jack are very hardy. There you have to be a member so I bought that now one of the there every one of the other things in that Flyer Talk about felons who are having a little difficulty understanding both of you because you're speaking at the same time let's try to win the money. One of the items mentioned that flyer that Senator armor talks about 400000 children. In the lettuce fields. Do you take exception to that too. Absolutely. Here it was in the state of California requiring a minor to have a work permit. They have to be at least 16 years of age to have one no grower is going to hire a minor without a

work we're all aware of what the laws say but it's a question of what actually happens now. Let me tell you something from the migratory farm labor program the United States 1969 report the second the migratory Labor Senate Committee on labor and public welfare best estimates indicate that there are about 800000 paid farm workers under 16. And these children constitute about one fourth of the total farm workforce where you went to Mr. Aragon were speaking of California I don't know what's going on in the rest of the part of the country. You don't think it has a California 100th of the. We don't want. To. Not want to know when you're on it but I don't want the miners in the. Amount of money we can't understand you here but I'm sorry In other words it happens in Arizona it's OK if children get exploited in Texas it's ok talking along that off in our own backyard. One of the things that I'm interested in is your contention that lettuce pickers make up their living. How much do you really think they make. I beg your pardon. Let's take this how much do they make like what if you say there are only wage range around 640 for an hour because they are on a piece rate and what you said was that they're

what the opening with the opening statement said was that they can earn as much as $10000 a year and I do rightly that absolutely he would actually you know many of us really pay. I've seen the hey listen what's yours. They remember some of the growers have operations in the Imperial area and Yuma farm worker can actually work a lead months out of a year for the same employer he is a professional lettuce Harvester gets want to have an issue I'm struggling I'm sorry we'll have a lot of predicates want to have that's ahead it takes a long time. Pick $10000. For the Krause thank you very much for being with us and the others. Like it will through. Of the rule of the. Do it all for my next witness Mr. Pauling one. Of the out of the under England. Is struggling as a grower from Salinas California his farm is not one of the corporate giants it's a family farm.

I do have about one hundred twenty employees a year or a day working on their farm mustering When can you tell us what they pay is the farm worker on your farm based on your records. Our latest harvesters in the lettuce Harvester surveyed in a recent survey. Earn in excess of two hundred thirteen dollars a week. Is that one week a year two weeks a year. The earnings are available 52 weeks a year in the state of California for California employees and for ours I mean your harvesting lettuce 52 weeks a year. We harvest lettuce 52 weeks a year. Our employees do earn between eight and ten thousand dollars a year. Whisperingly do you have a union contract. Yes we have a contract with the Teamsters on. This contract too as a result of a demand made upon us during a truckdriver negotiation in July of 1970. During that negotiation the Teamsters made demand for recognition of our field labor. Upon the strike that we took for the truck driver contract we then signed recognition with the Teamsters we then signed a contract with the teachers. Mr. England Mrs. Florida reluctantly admitted earlier in the show that there are three

growers who have contracts of the Chavez union at one time there were six are you personally acquainted with these growers in the history of their experience of this division. Yes I am. There were six contracts in the Salinas Valley there were one only that has been renewed. There is one that has not yet expired which accounts for two. There is one other contract that went bankrupt because of quality and labor problems. There is another contract fresh picked which has expired it has not been renewed. They have also cut their operation down to very low labor using drops so they won't have the problems that have been created by the flock. There are two contracts operating today without our two companies operating today without any contract. I will add that any company under you for contract in the Salinas Valley in the past two years has suffered very greatly from quality control problems within their operations. This is troubling. You Farkas Another excuse me name for the United Farm United Farm Workers Organizing the.

All right let's talk about this quality control problem. Can you give us some specific example of what the lack of quality control and or the survey's Union has done to a lettuce grower like the best example is de rigueur brothers of California they had a contract for two years with United Farm Workers. They've been in business for over 50 years prior to that contract. They had an excellent reputation for packing quality produce and delivering a quality product to the marketplace for the consumer. During the two years of that contract their quality deteriorated that they were among the lowest. In quality on the marketplace. On the terminations the contract in November they began harvesting was other workers available. And Mr. Dirigo himself stated that within the two weeks following the determination that contract he received more compliments on the quality of his lettuce than he ever thought of having during the two years that he had a contract for gentlemen's tournaments are gone for some questions please now cross-examination started Grammy. Grammy the court decision that people have referred to his short title could be Angle vs. Chavis. You were one of the plaintiffs I believe in the end that's

the court says that you are going just to make people clear as to who it is we're talking to which was during We were talking to was the Grammys up next. I'm sorry like so right is our strength and you were one of the plaintiffs in that decision that was handed down but you have won a Supreme Court. When Cesar Chavez called his strike the largest farm worker strike in U.S. agricultural history. Isn't it true that the only way you were able to get your workers back to work was by getting a local judge to pass an injunction against a strike. No sir you're quite incorrect. While while the strike you pop out. It started on the 24th of August let him answer please Peter. We started harvesting on the 25th of August I believe the final injunction came in the area of the 16th of September. We were harvesting lettuce and you'll find that the harvesting records of the Salinas Valley showed a very minimal disruption of production during the period the Los Altos Times reports Kerry versity reports that lettuce production was down to one third of its of its normal for that season and that was because of the strike. Are you are you disputing that 7000 workers turned up.

That's right I am disputing that there was a strike of 7000 words beauty. Are you disputing that that strike had any effect on your operations. Let me put it this way there were workers who did not work because of intimidation because of fear and because of harassment because you do not work because you're intimidated does not make it a strike and that's why you call for the injunction. That's right you went to a local judgment junction that was turned down by the Supreme Court two years later. Aha the strike was broken. Now let's tape why it was turned down. It was turned down in that it did not fit within the jurisdictional strike act only. There have been a junctions issued within the last two weeks again for harassment intent intimidation and violence of pickets of United Farm Workers was turned down because a California court found that there was no jurisdictional stripe since they did not consider those contracts binding on the workers. You'll also find that the court stated that the basic reason for the problem was that the state of California has no comprehensive law whereby to allow for situations like this at the California court did rely on federal authority and it said that there has to be a reasonable presumption on the part of the growers that the labor

organization with whom he is negotiating expects to represent those workers and that there was no expectation and even no claim in this particular case Now why did you sign those contracts with the Teamsters knowing the Deemster didn't even claim to represent those workers. We signed those contracts with the Teamsters because we were demanded by them to give them recognition. That is the same provision under law whereby the United Farm Workers have signed their contract. There is no law in the state of California or under federal gov. To give the farm workers the right they need the establishment of comprehensive labor laws to protect the rights of everyone is not true of Mr angle and that the California Supreme Court said of those contracts that they display the ultimate form of favoritism in which you substituted your choice as an employer and I think he will as I don't hear an area for a brief response please mister and you'll find they are in error they did not say the same which is I like a man trying to text. Mr. Ingram thank you very much. Worth. Going through. I fall for my hunting for William Graham for.

Earth. The other thing. Mr. Graham is the director of organization for the Western Conference of Teamsters Mr. Grammy one of the Teamsters Union first began working with agricultural workers in 1945 when they counted workers affiliated some 40000 of them with the Teamsters Union. When was your first contract with the harvesting crew. Of the first contract with the harvesting crews came in about 1947 when the AG when we organized the drivers stitchers and motors in the fields as well as some other minor operations. And sorry Mr. Grammy for those of us who are from out there of Viner's means one of the graves of the Viner's know of miners is a piece of equipment that separates the pieces from the finest of sand and the pods. So we can conclude Mr. Grammy that the Teamsters have been actively involved agricultural workers for at least the past 27 years. Yes we have. Mr. Grammy. How many

agreements with Levis growers does the Teamster Union have in the 13 western states. We have an excess of 170 right of all the workers then who are engaged in harvesting lettuce. What percentage of those workers are under a Teamster contract probably 90 percent. What has been said here denied by several witnesses that the Teamsters are not representative of their members. How do you reply to an accusation like that. Well at the time that we entered into the that recognition agreement which was the first part of the agreement in 1972 the Teamsters Representative were in the process of signing up and design up an average of twenty five hundred farm workers a week. And this rate continued through the period in which the Teamsters came to an agreement with you for. Some references I'm sorry Graham of the United Farm Workers as. Well some reference has been made tonight to a recent California State Supreme Court decision involving the Chavez Union and the Teamsters or the Teamsters a party to that union.

No more to that. So that trial to that suit our decision soon. Thank you as a lawyer I appreciate it all. They were not a party to the suit. Did they enter a brief of any type in their own defend Overton. So this decision by the Supreme Court. Never had as a part of the briefs filed anything from the teamsters they were not the Fens they were not parties they did not file briefs. That's correct. I had the Teamsters chosen to do so. Could you have filed evidence with the court that in fact their conclusion that you were not representative of these workers was an incorrect conclusion. Yes we could have. And what would have been some of that evidence the evidence would have been the rate at which you were assigning workers the fact that we did have a majority of the workers before the agreements were concluded. The fact that the workers did participate in collective bargaining since our organizers were authorized to represent them as well as soliciting their opinions before the contracts were completed. One last question Mr. Grammy were here tonight to decide which union has God on its side. We they both got priests on their side. You tell us please.

Why is your union better for the farm worker than the ship as you know I believe we've demonstrated in the number of people we were able to organize in the type of agreement we're able to produce for the farm workers since 1961 which was before the farm workers were organized. We had collective bargaining agreements in the farms and selves. But Apple. And maybe there's another one to escape my mind at the moment go to nursery in those agreements we have unemployment insurance with California state law by the way permits their grower to pay our permits or use an union to elicit from the Gore. So the United Farm Workers have no excuse here we have unemployment insurance that amounts to nineteen hundred fifty dollars a year to the average harvest worker that you fork has failed repeatedly to negotiate and their collective bargain where I had to interrupt I didn't have to get over this drama going for. Thank you Mr. Graham I'm going to run for the through on it.

Mr. Amr went to great pains to show that the Teamsters really didn't have much to do with that California Supreme Court decision although if you read that decision the word Teamsters appears at least once on every page and it has a declaration from you and Sting enough on page 7 which says. Grammy declaration explains that the Teamsters interest in representing the field workers stand primarily from that union's representation of truck drivers and food processing workers who would be adversely affected if the field workers went on strike now isn't that the truth. The only reason you're organizing the field workers is to keep them from going on strike and protect the job being a truck driver the the quote is that's a primarily interested and if you realize what's been happening in the food processing industry which you're probably not too for they have a hacker culture work has been moving into the field from the processing plants. And we've been following it for the last 27 years. And consequently we have been making a continual effort to follow that work. In other words you or you admit that you're interested in representing the field workers because you don't want them to go on strike and

jeopardize the jobs even though I know I put this in we have a community of interest as a processing worker with a field worker the field worker can't harvest crops if the from a processing plant is shut down again right represent and do adequately both groups of workers knowledge of the process that is done in the in the field was formally done in plants and vice versa. And then arms back and forth. So it's not a very good idea for the field workers to go out on strike. The California Court found that you not only did not claim to represent the farmworkers and I can't believe that your organization is sophisticated as yours would have been so naive as to not in testimony if they thought they had a chance to win you didn't even make a chance an effort to talk to the farmworkers until after I'd signed the contracts now in the face of that knowing that you have even tried to talk to the farmer because light is on this guy. Well number one the court is lacking in evidence which we as you know we did not participate in the court decision like we didn't for obvious reasons were meeting with the bishops committee and you fokin attempt to resolve our dispute. You were too busy running for it as a we were we

were quite busy attempting to resolve the dispute between you walked the Teamsters with a petition vision of the ever they'll stay on the bishops committee then take Supreme Court decision is important. They know the Supreme Court decision was between the growers and your flock we didn't interfere in that. One last question please mr. Well one of the things that I know is missing your contacts have been so crazed by Senator hammers that you don't talk much about the conditions of work and yet farm workers in the most hazardous occupations in the United States and why have you failed to provide protection for your farm workers of every other union tries to get for its workers and all you have failed to read the contract adequately. Then Mr. Oregon because we in the contract. Or thing. For the. Health and safety clause instead of writing 20 pages on health and safety we incorporate all laws with respect to food annulling housing pesticides and any other matters safety of equipment. All laws are automatically incorporated into the agreement. Gentlemen I'm sorry I have to interrupt.

Mr. Bradley thanks very much for fighting for that competes for cases on both sides and now it's time for a brief summary from each advocate and we'll begin with Mr. Herman. About 190 lettuce growers in the western United States. Two years ago United Farm Workers represented six of those four AD contracts and six of them. Now they have contracts with three. The Teamsters have contracts with a hundred and seventy of them. And you have seen demonstrated here tonight. That in a comparison of the two contracts the Teamster contract far exceeds the Chavez union contract in terms of what the farm worker gets out of it. The farm workers are joining the Teamsters Union because it gives them a better service. Now if you vote to 9 to continue the boycott. You're voting to take away jobs from workers who are working for unions who are working under the

Teamsters union contract. If you decide to continue in this boycott you're participating and doing away with jobs bankrupting growers. And in effect. Perpetrating the biggest fraud of all upon those concerned. The solution isn't a boycott. The solution is the extension of appropriate legislation to protect all parties and their rights. Thank you. Ah. Of the. Originals of your stuff. Well we've heard the world turned upside down and I do know the real world out there you've heard the teachers lecturing says Our job is about ethics and you've heard the growers talking very concerned of the about farm workers rights the same people who were oppressed for over a hundred years. Says of jobs came to you for support in the great boycott and everybody won. The farmers got social justice and the great Gores have had the best year they've ever had in the last year. The farm workers need your help if they're to achieve their rights through their own union support the boycott supports us such obvious

and boycott ENP. 3000. Thank you John I'm. Like Mr. Harmer Thank you. Now it's time for all of you here with us at Faneuil Hall and those of you at home to get in on the act and to vote tonight in two ways the voters consumers in your decision as to whether or not to support the boycott. And secondly to vote with us and the advocates Paul we would like to know what you think. Do you support the national boycott. Send us your voting letter a postcard and mail it to the Advocate's Box nine hundred seventy three Boston all 21 34. This is a question that interests the lawmakers because by the laws they make the Congress and state legislatures have the power to help or hinder the organizing

efforts. Of the Farm Workers Union. Let us know what you think and we will inform the Congress and others concerned with the problem. So remember the address the Advocate's Box nine hundred seventy three Boston 21 34. Four weeks ago the advocates debated the question should we create a national court of appeals to ease the burden on the Supreme Court. Of the almost 12 hundred viewers who responded. Twenty five percent said yes we should create a national court of appeals. Seventy five percent said no we should not create such a court. And now let's look ahead to next week one that offers regular advocates view as a real bonus. On Monday live from Washington D.C. over most of these public television stations. We will present a 90 minute program on the energy crisis in the popular PBS special of the Week series. We hope you'll try to see this important program on this very timely issue. And then in our regular spot also next week we'll bring you another interesting issue dealing with our relations with Latin America.

You're looking at some of the choicest real estate in the world the Panama Canal Zone its waterway cuts the sea journey between New York and San Francisco by nearly 8000 miles by treaty with the Republic of Panama. This strategic strip of land is under the jurisdiction of the United States of America but the Panamanian natives are getting restless. Should the United States turn over control of the Panama Canal Zone to Panama a question next time for the advocates. The PBS fight of the week. Again let me remind you of that special on the PBS special of the wake of a most of the stations on the energy crisis coming up Monday and now with thanks to our advocates and to their distinguished witnesses we conclude tonight's debate. The advocates as a program takes no position on the issues debated tonight. Our

job is to help you understand both sides more clearly. This program was recorded.