New Dimensions; Gabrielle Roth; Part 3

<v Gabrielle Roth>Manipulate into these, you know, kind of conformist <v Gabrielle Roth>robotic groups. <v Gabrielle Roth>They just won't go. I mean, once you get in touch with the power of the individual <v Gabrielle Roth>creative spirit, you just don't give it up to just any old person who <v Gabrielle Roth>just happens to have one themselves. <v Gabrielle Roth>You know, I mean, so it's changing things. <v Gabrielle Roth>Dancing is going to change our planet. <v Michael Toms>We're talking with Gabrielle Roth. You're listening to New Dimensions. <v Michael Toms>This is KQED FM in San Francisco. <v Speaker>[Song: Galadriel by Unknown] <v Speaker>[Song: Galadriel by Unknown]

<v Speaker>[Song: Galadriel by Unknown] <v Michael Toms>Beautiful song, beautiful song called Galadriel, but it could just

<v Michael Toms>as well could- be called Gabrielle. <v Gabrielle Roth>I love that- the comfort he sings, magical metaphors. <v Michael Toms>You have some more poetry and the poems are beautiful, Gabrielle. <v Michael Toms>I just want to say that just sort of sitting here being blown away. <v Gabrielle Roth>[begins to recite poem] You've heard of the fall. <v Gabrielle Roth>One needs God alone after all. <v Gabrielle Roth>You've heard of the fall. <v Gabrielle Roth>Nobody pushed you into that body, you wear. <v Gabrielle Roth>And nobody else is going to care about your karma and all. <v Gabrielle Roth>For taking that fall. <v Gabrielle Roth>It's your personal trip, Hey, maybe you didn't even slip. <v Gabrielle Roth>I think you jumped just to get humped. <v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, why be in this body just for the ride? <v Gabrielle Roth>Why you try to hide your part of the wings? <v Gabrielle Roth>One needs God alone. <v Gabrielle Roth>After all, it's only showbiz.

<v Gabrielle Roth>Lt's like a show keeping you on the go, changing costumes, rehearsing <v Gabrielle Roth>lines, feeling like a sap while you wait for the clap. <v Gabrielle Roth>Hey, one meets guy alone when the body becomes your home. <v Gabrielle Roth>So dance. <v Michael Toms>[laughter] That's great. Great images. Wonderful images. <v Michael Toms>More? <v Gabrielle Roth>Well, they're all from the people. <v Gabrielle Roth>More? Oh, there's so many, many, many. <v Gabrielle Roth>I- I think I'll go back to some of my teachers and honor some of my teachers. <v Gabrielle Roth>I love to honor my teachers. They've all been- everybody has given so much <v Gabrielle Roth>to me that I never have enough space to really acknowledge all the <v Gabrielle Roth>mighty warriors that have danced on my path. <v Gabrielle Roth>And, uh, certainly one was Oscar Ichazo.I <v Gabrielle Roth>wrote a poem for Oscar called Big O. <v Gabrielle Roth>Oscar helped me define my feet, feel my belly button. <v Gabrielle Roth>Look, someone's straight in the eye and let everything go in a sigh.

<v Gabrielle Roth>Through him, I met me face to face, not out in space. <v Gabrielle Roth>I got a good look. Learn to read me like a book. <v Gabrielle Roth>I could watch my ego move like a rollercoaster ride. <v Gabrielle Roth>I'd hold my stomach and try to hide. <v Gabrielle Roth>Nowhere to hide. The group was on the same side. <v Gabrielle Roth>Oscar was a light that turned on me. <v Gabrielle Roth>Everything he did taught me how to be deeper and deeper in unity. <v Gabrielle Roth>I felt God moved back into my head, felt things I had thought were dead. <v Gabrielle Roth>And then I left his nest. One day it was time to dance away. <v Michael Toms>Where did you get in touch with Oscar? <v Gabrielle Roth>I did the Arica training. <v Gabrielle Roth>And I loved it. And that was all about the collective. <v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, Oscar really emphasizes the collective, you know, the the worker, the bee. <v Gabrielle Roth>And you really lose your personal identity. <v Gabrielle Roth>Personally, I wanted mine back. You know, [laughter] so I danced away. <v Gabrielle Roth>But it was not without taking with me extraordinary lessons.

<v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, he's a brilliant, brilliant man and his teachings are deep and <v Gabrielle Roth>rooted in all forms of paths. <v Gabrielle Roth>You know, he's very eclectic. And I- I would say that he totally inspired <v Gabrielle Roth>my sense of unity or a real- collective sense. <v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, from him, I really learned how to <v Gabrielle Roth>create in myself and in others a very deep, profound sense of oneness. <v Gabrielle Roth>And then- and then I met Werner, you know, about the same time. <v Gabrielle Roth>And I wrote this. <v Gabrielle Roth>This is called ?Hey, gee thanks?Thank you, Werner Erhard. <v Gabrielle Roth>[reciting poem] Deep down, the way of woman is round, moving <v Gabrielle Roth>mines underground through time. <v Gabrielle Roth>She disappears, dancing down street songs. <v Gabrielle Roth>You held her hand when she was a one piece band. <v Gabrielle Roth>You gave her space to dance her grace.

<v Gabrielle Roth>You helped her see she was born to win from outside. <v Gabrielle Roth>You will let her move your graduates in. <v Gabrielle Roth>She remembers your rising. <v Gabrielle Roth>She feels your fall and she sighs and she dies. <v Gabrielle Roth>Deep down, the waves of woman are light born of night <v Gabrielle Roth>moving souls beyond. She rolls in rhyme, rocks in time, in <v Gabrielle Roth>nothing she knows. In everything she flows, giving grace <v Gabrielle Roth>to space. She stays no place. <v Gabrielle Roth>And she thanks you. <v Gabrielle Roth>And she thanks you, Mr. Erhard. <v Gabrielle Roth>[music] Werner was very special to me, too, he gave me a lot. <v Gabrielle Roth>While he was the first person to really see what I was doing <v Gabrielle Roth>and give it larger space and more people, I mean, I moved from working <v Gabrielle Roth>with 50 people to 500 overnight through Werner.

<v Gabrielle Roth>And that was a very important experience in my development. <v Gabrielle Roth>And there was Werner. And he was like he was into this, the individual, you know, the <v Gabrielle Roth>personal. And then there was Oscar and this collective thing. <v Gabrielle Roth>And I went, really? It was like going crazy was- <v Gabrielle Roth>Werner's whole idea was go for it, you know. <v Gabrielle Roth>And Oscar's whole thing was, wait for it. <v Gabrielle Roth>Go for it. Wait for it. Go for it. Wait for it. <v Gabrielle Roth>Go for it. Wait for it. I said hey, boys which one of you guys has the truth. <v Speaker>[Song: What Game Shall We Play Today? by Chick Corea] <v Michael Toms>There was a very appropriate piece of music entitled What Game Shall We Play Today?

<v Michael Toms>Chick Corea and Gary Bird. <v Gabrielle Roth>That's beautiful. <v Michael Toms>We're talking with Gabrielle Roth. Gabrielle, the poems <v Michael Toms>are beautiful. You know what occurs to me as a part of what you've been talking about? <v Michael Toms>It just, uh, it just brings up the whole relationship of- <v Michael Toms>of ourselves as individuals in relationship to our <v Michael Toms>teachers wherever we may find them. <v Michael Toms>And I think a lot of us have trouble sometimes separating ourselves <v Michael Toms>out from all of the mirrors that we see around us. <v Michael Toms>And you seem to have been working on that for some time and going <v Michael Toms>through and kind of synthesizing out the best from the teacher that you <v Michael Toms>find and then moving on and integrating that into your own individuality and that <v Michael Toms>expressing yourself in another unique way with a little bit of that teacher and a little <v Michael Toms>bit of that teacher and like you to talk a little more about that. <v Gabrielle Roth>I think this is a very important thing nowadays. <v Gabrielle Roth>I think to for one thing, that we have to be able to differentiate between what a teacher

<v Gabrielle Roth>is and what a master is. And a teacher is someone who teaches through a method. <v Gabrielle Roth>Usually there's someone who has created a method. <v Gabrielle Roth>And so you don't. And through that teacher's method, you can become <v Gabrielle Roth>catalysed. You know, the method itself. <v Gabrielle Roth>The power is in the method so to speak. <v Gabrielle Roth>The confusion is when you try to make a teacher into a master. <v Gabrielle Roth>A master is a mirror reflecting yourself back. <v Gabrielle Roth>Therefore, you must meet a master one to one. <v Gabrielle Roth>So if you think you have a master and you haven't met him face to face, then you don't <v Gabrielle Roth>have a master. It's like a master can only see you that way. <v Gabrielle Roth>It's like they see directly sold to soul and they mirror back exactly what <v Gabrielle Roth>you need to see. And I think that this is a very important distinction <v Gabrielle Roth>that we need to make. <v Gabrielle Roth>Again in my work, I'm always developing people's <v Gabrielle Roth>sense of being a leader and being a follower. <v Gabrielle Roth>Being a teacher and being a student, it's like we have to be able to change positions on <v Gabrielle Roth>a dime. We have to be able to be both.

<v Gabrielle Roth>I am a wonderful student. <v Gabrielle Roth>I love to be a student. And I'm also a teacher. <v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, it's like but one side without the other is of no value. <v Gabrielle Roth>Then you get. Then we become fixed and we become lodged and- that's why <v Gabrielle Roth>it's- it's very important. <v Gabrielle Roth>It's again, to go back to Walt Whitman. <v Gabrielle Roth>Institutions are about the length and shadow of a man. <v Gabrielle Roth>I would hate to see people get stuck in length and shadows. <v Gabrielle Roth>I think that organizations are something that one should move through. <v Gabrielle Roth>They should be fluid. You know, as a form, perhaps they're fixed, but the movement within <v Gabrielle Roth>them should be fluid and that you can get stuck in somebody's shadow for too long. <v Gabrielle Roth>Sometimes you can grow- you know, for a certain period of time <v Gabrielle Roth>in someone's shadow, but not forever. <v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, we each have our own destiny dance. <v Gabrielle Roth>And that's- that's very important. And I think that we need to <v Gabrielle Roth>each of us needs to recognize how valuable and unique we are. <v Gabrielle Roth>And to learn to discover our own gifts.

<v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, I have totally devoted all of my psychic energy these days into really pointing <v Gabrielle Roth>out to people what their gifts are, because I feel that when people get in touch with <v Gabrielle Roth>your gifts and begin to really demonstrate them and use them and serve them, <v Gabrielle Roth>then they begin to heal themselves. You don't have to worry about the rest of the <v Gabrielle Roth>neuroses. It's like if you put people in touch with their gifts and you allow in this <v Gabrielle Roth>space and the nourishment to really see those gifts, that's when <v Gabrielle Roth>they heal because they get in touch with their own source. <v Gabrielle Roth>They get in touch with their own power and they start to move, you know, they start to <v Gabrielle Roth>paint, draw, cry, dance, <v Gabrielle Roth>do business. It doesn't matter. We have all kinds of gifts, but we're so far away <v Gabrielle Roth>from them. We're so far away from them. <v Gabrielle Roth>You know, we're so far away from really trusting ourselves, trusting our intuitions, <v Gabrielle Roth>trusting our own ability to move in the moment <v Gabrielle Roth>and be appropriate. So we really need to come home. <v Gabrielle Roth>You know, I went on the trip, I went on it a lot of people's trips, and I got confused, <v Gabrielle Roth>too. I left- I put my identity in Oscar.

<v Gabrielle Roth>I'd put my identity in several people. <v Gabrielle Roth>It was like actually a great genius <v Gabrielle Roth>that brought me back to myself. And that was Alejandro Jodorwsky, that wonderful, magical <v Gabrielle Roth>filmmaker. And he met me face to face. <v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, not when he's a master to me. He met me face to face and said to me, you know, <v Gabrielle Roth>what are you doing? You have the gift to change people's lives. <v Gabrielle Roth>You're an artist. What are you doing? <v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, I was reading directions from a book from somebody else's, you know, dream, <v Gabrielle Roth>and I had to really look at that and this wonderful man really like put me back together. <v Gabrielle Roth>He's spent a lot of time just really giving me, inspiring <v Gabrielle Roth>me, giving me me. <v Gabrielle Roth>And that's how he makes his movies. <v Gabrielle Roth>You know, he's- he's quite something. <v Gabrielle Roth>Alejandro, passion, purple shirt bellowing sleeve power poured <v Gabrielle Roth>into pants, pacing the room like a cat.

<v Gabrielle Roth>I felt your every step in mine. <v Gabrielle Roth>We made silence, talk, energy fly. <v Gabrielle Roth>And I listened to your cry. <v Gabrielle Roth>I receive everything. <v Gabrielle Roth>Fell in my ear from your lips. <v Gabrielle Roth>I followed you in between sips of nectar born in me. <v Gabrielle Roth>I am nothing. I know nothing. <v Gabrielle Roth>I feel nothing. <v Gabrielle Roth>I do nothing. <v Gabrielle Roth>I receive everything. <v Gabrielle Roth>I rocked in this truth with you as my school teacher. <v Gabrielle Roth>Talk to me. Teacher, talk to me. <v Gabrielle Roth>Teacher set me free. Set me free. <v Gabrielle Roth>And you did. And you did. <v Gabrielle Roth>You took off the lid and let me fly, an artist am I. <v Gabrielle Roth>Go teach Oscar to dance. You said shouted your bold soul. <v Gabrielle Roth>So you must give. <v Gabrielle Roth>You must give. <v Gabrielle Roth>And I still hear you repeating this phrase, often it's enough <v Gabrielle Roth>to change my ways.

<v Gabrielle Roth>Yes, master movie maker man, you were part of my <v Gabrielle Roth>destiny plan. <v Speaker>[Song: Angel by Buffy Sainte-Marie] <v Michael Toms>Gabriel's going to read us another poem.

<v Gabrielle Roth>From another master. This is one of my favorites. <v Gabrielle Roth>Jack Scwartz has done nothing but give to me and to so <v Gabrielle Roth>many others the space to really be an individual creative spirit. <v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, here is one who meets us face to face, head on and, uh, <v Gabrielle Roth>and gives his whole soul to our development. <v Gabrielle Roth>Master Shaman Jack, Miracle, Medicine Man, <v Gabrielle Roth>Master Shaman. Jack works like a wand, an instrument <v Gabrielle Roth>of divine. He sees through time and space. <v Gabrielle Roth>He belongs no place. <v Gabrielle Roth>He is seeing colors form their truth in souls suits. <v Gabrielle Roth>They slip around the body and speak to eyes that see <v Gabrielle Roth>Master Shaman Jack can see forward and back. <v Gabrielle Roth>There is nowhere to be when you can see and that's the case

<v Gabrielle Roth>of Master Jack Swarts, a crystal, not a course. <v Gabrielle Roth>He catches you in his gaze and sees your life as a mythical maze. <v Gabrielle Roth>He speaks his vision, cry and as his words, dance and fly. <v Gabrielle Roth>You can let your ego die. <v Gabrielle Roth>Master showman Jack, he speaks one to one, <v Gabrielle Roth>as all great masters have done. <v Gabrielle Roth>[music] ?inaudible? The moon bathes my mind.

<v Gabrielle Roth>Moves time, swirling antique thoughts to the Dragon <v Gabrielle Roth>O Messenger of God, only one humble Lord of <v Gabrielle Roth>tongues. <v Gabrielle Roth>Deep in your down beats, I move mad as your eyes caress the <v Gabrielle Roth>visions of my soul and in my fear I walk <v Gabrielle Roth>towards the light, toward the light. <v Gabrielle Roth>You have captured me. Black hooded man of the night, towards you I dance the <v Gabrielle Roth>delicate dance he likes. <v Gabrielle Roth>Forever past and future. <v Gabrielle Roth>You are mine now. <v Gabrielle Roth>For thousands of years serving the Tao, you are not <v Gabrielle Roth>so that I can be. <v Gabrielle Roth>You speak only so that I can see oh, king of karma. <v Gabrielle Roth>Releasing souls to sour. I will love you forever more.

<v Michael Toms>That was a poem that you wrote and a song that you wrote for Bhagwan Shri Rajneesh. <v Gabrielle Roth>Yes. <v Michael Toms>Have you met him? <v Gabrielle Roth>No, I don't need to. He's uh, He clearly reflects himself <v Gabrielle Roth>in what- Bhagwan and I are on the same path exactly. <v Gabrielle Roth>I mean, we both create chaos. We're both spiritual anarchists, so to speak, and <v Gabrielle Roth>we're both, you know, on the dancing path. <v Gabrielle Roth>And it's as if I know him within me. <v Gabrielle Roth>In fact, he's been very important to my development because at some point it was very <v Gabrielle Roth>hard to trust. The,uh, <v Gabrielle Roth>everyone around me was, you know, they were all so important. <v Gabrielle Roth>They were all doing important things and writing important books and talking important

<v Gabrielle Roth>words. And, you know, it was- when I, especially when I first started this movement <v Gabrielle Roth>thing, it was like people looked at me like I was a recreation leader. <v Gabrielle Roth>In a sense, I am. And, you know, I had this idea <v Gabrielle Roth>that when I grew up, I would be more like them. <v Gabrielle Roth>It's very interesting that now that we've grown up a bit together, they're all becoming <v Gabrielle Roth>more like me [laughter] in the sense that I find more people dancing, more people being <v Gabrielle Roth>spontaneous. But I had no idea of that then. <v Gabrielle Roth>And at some point I met some orange people. <v Gabrielle Roth>I know it must've been five or six years ago. <v Gabrielle Roth>And they took me up to Mount Tamalpais and put a blindfold on me, and we did this <v Gabrielle Roth>wonderful meditation, this chaotic meditation. <v Gabrielle Roth>And afterwards I just simply could not stop crying. <v Gabrielle Roth>It was like I couldn't believe that there was a real live man who was a philosopher, <v Gabrielle Roth>who had several degrees that was sitting in India somewhere, who was at the exact <v Gabrielle Roth>same idea that was on- that knew that we had to dance. <v Gabrielle Roth>And suddenly I realized that I was not crazy. <v Gabrielle Roth>That in fact, as long as there was one other person in the universe who agreed with me, I

<v Gabrielle Roth>didn't care about the rest. And Bhaagwan provided that catalyst for me. <v Gabrielle Roth>He became from the distance like a, <v Gabrielle Roth>you know, an inspiration and acknowledgement of a message <v Gabrielle Roth>to just continue in the way that I was going and to have the courage to keep, you <v Gabrielle Roth>know, my feet dancing. And that- drop the intellect, forget it. <v Gabrielle Roth>You know, what comes comes. But that it wasn't like I was going to <v Gabrielle Roth>grow out of dancing, that perhaps I was onto the truth somewhere <v Gabrielle Roth>along the way. And so he really became that kind of acknowledgement for me. <v Gabrielle Roth>And for that I am deeply indebted, and I simply love him. <v Gabrielle Roth>As I do all of them, but maybe a bit more. <v Michael Toms>You have another poem. <v Gabrielle Roth>Yeah. Woman Warrior. <v Gabrielle Roth>[poem] I am a celebration of all my teachers and inspirational

<v Gabrielle Roth>get together of various forces moving through me. <v Gabrielle Roth>When I identified with my teachers, rather than their teachings. <v Gabrielle Roth>I became a soldier, rigid, holding on. <v Gabrielle Roth>I had something to lose, to protect, to fight for. <v Gabrielle Roth>When I became the teachings integrating into action, as I learned <v Gabrielle Roth>I became a warrior fluid, letting go of everything, being nothing <v Gabrielle Roth>to lose or protect. <v Gabrielle Roth>I say to you, go where you go, <v Gabrielle Roth>but never stay.