In Black America; Kirk Whalum

Yeah. From the Longhorn Radio Network, the University of Texas at Austin, this is In Black America. All of a sudden was several things changed dramatically. You know, one, I didn't have any responsibility. My responsibility was to play the saxophone, yeah. And that was great. Number two, you know, just from the standpoint of, I guess, attention like you say, you

know, when you're used to being the cat out front, even in a small context, it's still an adjustment to all of a sudden to be in a supporting role, which I found refreshing. It was really, really great, you know, especially for someone like her, you know, because I just think the world are, you know, she is the type of person. She's a natural star. She's not a contrived star. She just is meant to be out front. And it just flows so naturally that when I play with her, I found myself just being a part of this organism, you know, this band. And we prayed, I found myself in also a position of being kind of a chaplain for the band. And we would hold hands, and my position every night was right next to her. And we'd hold hands, and I read a scripture, and I prayed. And so we developed a kind of a closeness through that. And so, you know, it was a really, it was a great experience. I did have an effect on me, I guess, in the sense of being able to, there were several

areas that I grew in. One of which, by the way, was the technology. I was playing, I don't only saxophone, I was playing a wind synthesizer, which was like a, you know, set up like a saxophone in the sense, but I was playing violins and oboe, all kinds of stuff digitally, you know. So, yeah, it was, it was, it was a great experience, all along. Columbia Recording Artist Kirk Whalam. Turner saxophoneist Kirk Whalam has been in much demands as opening for Bob James back in February of 1984. Three weeks later, he was in New York playing on James' next album entitled, 12. In early 1986, Kirk was approached by guitarist Larry Carlton, to record four cuts on his discovery LP. He later joined Carlton on tour. Again, Kirk Whalam was rediscovered. In mid-1970, Kirk moved to Los Angeles, but he still commuted to Texas, where he met with the span to fulfill their performance engagements. Last year, Kirk Whalam was the featured musician during the Whitney Houston World Tour, an

experience he say he will never forget. Recently, Kirk Whalam has moved his family, lock stock, and saxophone to France, something he wanted to do for some time now. I'm John L. Hanson Jr. and welcome to another edition of In Black America. This week, jazz saxophoneist Kirk Whalam in Black America. Being a musician, you can really, really, I guess, you can, what is the word, to specify in one particular area. It's one of those things where you can really hone in on one side of it and not be so great at another side. I think we all have our strong points, but to say that is to say that I find that there are certain musicians who tend to really have a strong point of making records.

Thus, the term studio musician, you've got Paul Jackson and people like that, who play live well, but really making records, they just do that, because there's a certain kind of magnifying glass that goes on in the studio that requires a certain kind of plan. It is a higher level of proficiency in more of a kind of nitpicky kind of way, whereas on stage, it has a lot more to do with attitude and presence and just raw energy. Studio has more to do with almost being like a surgeon, you know what I mean. No one can doubt the success Kirk Whalam has achieved over the last eight years. He has performed with some of the music industry's top stars. He has also been a contributor to a motion picture soundtrack. Born and raised in Memphis, Tennessee, where his father is the pastor of Olivet Baptist

Church, steeped in church music and the R&B of his native city, the last thing on his mind was playing jazz. It wasn't until he attended high school that he got the jazz book. Kirk's proficiency in jazz earned him a scholarship to Texas Southern University in Houston, where he wrote arrangements and participated in the marching band as well as the award-winning Texas Southern Jazz Ensemble. While in college at Texas Southern, Kirk fell on the influence of Arnold Cobb, another Houston player best known for his sax work in the Lionel Hampton Orchestra. After spending the summer of 1979 studying in France, he returned to Houston and shortly the after he formed his own band, which has been together ever since, playing Kirk's own music on the Texas Club circuit. This past June, I spoke with Kirk Whalam before he moved to France. Born and raised in Memphis, I lived there until I graduated from high school and my dad, I started playing the saxophone when I was 12 and my father passed as a church there still does and so primarily I got my first playing exposure in my dad's church, you know.

And for quite some time that was pretty much my performing environment, if you will. So I toured with Larry and kept doing my own thing and then ultimately having made the move to LA, I kind of became active in the studio scene there and I started playing on a whole lot of different records and, you know, from there, you know, we're working on my fourth release for Sony. Growing up in Memphis and at that time Memphis was a hot city as far as music is concerned. Who was some of your influence since during that period? I would think I just picked up a record today for a friend of mine that I played on and as Al Green's new gospel record and it's really interesting because he was a big influence on me, the way his phrasing and the way that he approaches melodically, the way that he approaches his presentation was a big factor in my musical upbringing.

And then just gospel singers and R&B singers, you know, the Aretha Franklin's and Faka 's and then, you know, people like Nancy Wilson and so I listened to a lot of singers and I think that if they're, you know, if they're Memphis influences, then they would be, you know, the Barcaes and Al Green and Hank Crawford, you know, those would probably be my three biggest Memphis influences. How did you happen to go to the saxophone? Was there other instruments that you played before you decided to just hone in on the saxophone? Sure, where I started playing drums, just, you know, I begged and begged my mother about me a snare drum and the drummer for the Barcaes lived a couple of houses down and his little brother, they had, there were eight brothers, all of whom played drums and the littlest of them was my running buddy and now he's, it's amazing man, how time flies but now he's living in London now for 10 years having played with the pretenders and haircut 100 and

shard day now he's playing with Paul McCartney and, you know, my little partner man, Blair Cunningham but so we, you know, we ended up kind of, you know, getting started out the music business together but yeah, I don't know, Memphis is quite a, quite a town to breathe musicians. I started playing the bass after I started the drums and my father scored a bass for me from somebody here so he had it sitting around the house and I learned a lot of tunes from here about year and then when I was 12, I was with the junior high school and the first day of band, I, they demonstrated the instruments and the last one was the sax and I knew then, you know, it just looked all those keys and it looked like a big piece of jewelry so I went straight for that man. Playing the saxophone, not like other instruments where you can, as you say, phrase and actually makes a horn sing, in essence.

What do you try to concentrate on in playing your saxophone or is there a message, I'm quite sure there is some type of message that you try to convey in the music that you write and play? Spiritually, you know, I'm a Christian and very much a committed Christian so that the message that I, you know, go around sharing is the message of Jesus's love, you know, and the fact that he, that he died for us, you know, and in fact, wants to live in us. But musically, I really try to approach it from the standpoint of playing from the heart and just communicating a message that people can understand and feel, it's easy to get up there and try to impress everybody, you know, and that's something that I at least attempt to stay away from, you know, everybody, you know, wants people to like them, you know.

I mean, that's a natural thing, but I try to relegate what I'm doing to that musically of just playing what it is that communicates the idea or the thought. And I think that pretty much categorizes me as more of a singer than an instrumentalist because I feel like as an instrumentalist, you tend to gravitate towards technical expertise and just being able to get around the instrument, which is a love of mine, you know, I mean, I'm determined to really play that instrument, but I really try my best to concentrate on communicating, you know. That's what I'm going to do, that's what I'm going to do, that's what I'm going to do.

That's what I'm going to do. That's what I'm going to do, that's what I'm going to do, that's what I'm going to do. That's what I'm going to do, that's what I'm going to do, that's what I'm going to do.

Being a session musician before you started producing and performing on your own albums, was that difficult or just being able to work with one of the main objects that you had at that time? Yeah, I see the actual sequence of events was I was a live performer for years before I had, you know, I ever did my first record, in fact, I started playing pretty much in 1977 in terms of playing professionally and then 1984 was the first time I recorded, really recorded with Bob James in New York cold, you know, just like, here I am and so from the

very beginning I felt like a real novice and so I have still never felt like my strong point is the studio, I think that's something that I'm growing in, I certainly have grown a lot in, but no, I'm a live musician and that's really my strong point, I'm glad that I've had the chance to do these records, you know, and I've met some really incredible people that I've admired for a long time, you know, but still playing live is my joy, you know. Is it difficult in getting together finding the musicians that you want to put on the album and actually putting that particular album together? Making records is so much different from playing live, I think that there's a real knack for making records that it's like a different, it's like to say, well, I'm an engineer, you know, well that doesn't, by any means, you know, if you're a chemical engineer it certainly doesn't make you an audio engineer, you know, it's just being a musician, you

can really really, I guess you can, what is the word, to specify in one particular area, you know, it's one of those things where you can really hone in on one side of it and not be so great at another side, you know, I think we all have our strong points, but to say that is to say that I find that there are certain musicians who tend to really have a strong point of making records, and you know, thus the term studio musician, you know, you've got Paul Jackson's and people like that, who play live well but really making records they could just, they just do that, because there's a certain kind of magnifying glass that goes on in the studio that requires a certain kind of plan, and it is a higher level of proficiency in more of a kind of nitpicky kind of way, whereas on stage it has a lot

more to do with attitude, you know, in presence and just raw energy, you know, studio has more to do with almost being like a surgeon, you know what I mean, I guess the difference between being a surgeon and being an ambulance attendant. Are there any musicians in which you play with live and also bring those musicians in the studio if you're going to cut a record? Definitely, I've recorded with all the members of my band proper, and there are Devin Bobby Lyle and people like that, you know, that I play with in the studio and that I end up doing live sets with too. Does it take a certain type of temperament, commitment and sacrifice to be a professional musician? It sure does, man, music is a lot like medicine, man, in the sense that it's, you never finish learning it, and there is a great deal of, well, there's a great deal of just rudimental type, I guess, maintenance that has to go on as well as reaching for another

level, and I study a lot, you know, I listen to a lot of classical music and things that I feel like are going to expand my horizons musically, but you never get to the end of it, you never get to the bottom of it, and even when you get cocky and you just look, say you want to look down on one particular form of music, then you realize that there's a real knack to doing that thing, you know, you have someone like, you know, Teddy Riley or someone like that who, you say, well, now that's really limited, well, maybe so, but there's still a, as we would say, a thing on that particular, you know, genre of music where you can't just do that, you got to know what you're doing, there's a country in Western, same thing, you know, you can't just up and make a country in Western record. So music is just immense, man, and yes, it takes a committed person to go out of it and make a good living playing music. I'm convinced that not everybody's cut out to do, even people with musical talent or

gift, not everybody's cut out for it, because you really have to be resilient and determined, and as those, even as I say those words, you know, I always just look myself in the mirror and say, Lord, give me that, another dose of that. And sure enough, I found myself in broom closets, in major venues all over the world, literally, practicing, trying to get at that thing, you know, because it's huge, man. Just when you think you've heard it all, man, you hear somebody else, wow, man, that's incredible. And you just want to get back into what's it, you know. And you know, I always just look myself in the mirror and say, Lord, give me that, another

dose of that. And you know, I always just look myself in the mirror and say, Lord, give me that, another dose of that.

And you know, I always just look myself in the mirror and say, Lord, give me that, another dose of that. With all the other media that we have, all the other avenues of entertainment, CDs, video cassettes, et cetera, are you finding your audiences and other audiences really appreciative of music in general and your music in particular? I think so, I think that in general, people will always appreciate good music, good entertainment. I think that a lot of times, you know, as media develops and grows and spreads out, a lot

of times it can be, it can kind of have a positive negative effect on the actual perpetuation of music. You can find yourself in a situation where, for instance, if you got all, say, middle of the road, very kind of cold, new age, kind of programming on a certain area, then you find that the people started getting a taste for that, you know, and they don't want any thing that's got any substance or any significance to it. So those kinds of things, you know, have their bearing, but I think the thing remembers that if you're good, people are always going to want to hear you, you know, I'm moving to France and the idea behind that move, I mean, I'm moving for other reasons, you know, primarily to learn the language and my kids experience that culture, whatever, but behind that move, I said, well, what are you going to do? Well, I'm going to play saxophone, I said, well, you know, with whom and where? I don't know, you know, I mean, the idea is that if I can play, I ought to be able to

make a living there just like I do here. You know, maybe if I was going to say to Cairo or, you know, was it somewhere in India, then maybe I'd be pushing it, but in a place like Paris, man, I should be able to just, you know, I mean, the idea is that you got what it is that you have should be able to open door. There's a description, in fact, that says that the man's gift opens the doors for him, you know. You recently came off tour with Whitney Houston. First question and of three or four questions dealing with the Whitney Houston tour, how did you happen to be selected by Whitney Houston to be your lead saxophone? I have a friend who is her musical director, and he was just her bassist, and then when he got promoted, he just said, well, listen, I'm going to start all over for you. I'm just going to hire a whole new band. And he said, now, what I would like to do is hire the best, but it's going to cost you probably five or six times what you used to pay him.

And so she said, cool, let's do it. And so he hired Ricky Lawson from Michael Jackson's band, and Bushiery Johnson from Stevie Windwood, and Ray Fuller from Anita Baker, and he just got all his boys that, you know, we've had done various things together. And, you know, he just, he called me, and said, man, would you like to go out with Whitney Houston? Wow. I never thought about doing anything like that. So I gave him some thought, and I said, well, you know, financially it's great because it's like a, like a year and a half period of making a salary, you know, which I've never experienced in my whole life. And so that was great. My wife and I loved that. And then from the standpoint of, you know, my horizon, I'd never done a pop tour. And I was interested to see how that went, you know, and plus I love her singing so much. And I was surrounded with incredible musicians. Ricky Miner was the guy I was talking about. He's the basis without the role when James Ingram and a bunch of other people. But he's, he's my buddy that kind of opened that door for me.

Once on the Whitney Houston tour, everyone knew who Kirk Euler was, and he is now. Did that have an effect on you? You were not a studio musician any longer. You were now part of the Whitney Houston band. Did that have an effect on you? I guess it was an interesting, I guess more attention was paid to you. Right. I guess in one sense, you know, it's like I, all of a sudden was several things changed dramatically. You know, one, I didn't have any responsibility. My responsibility was to play the saxophone, yeah. And that was great, you know. Number two, you know, just from the standpoint of, I guess attention, like you say, you know, when you're used to being the cat out front, even in a small, you know, in a, in a, in a small context, it's still, it's an adjustment to all of a sudden to be in a supporting role, which, which I found refreshing, it was really, really great, you know, especially

for someone like her, you know, because I just think the world are, you know, she is the type of person. She's a natural star. She's not a contrived star. She just is meant to be out front. And it just flows so naturally that when I play with her, I found myself just, just being a part of this, this organism, you know, this band. And we prayed, I found myself in also a position of being kind of a chaplain for the band. And we would hold hands and I'm up position every night was right next to her. And we'd hold hands and I read scripture and I prayed. And so we developed a kind of a closeness through that. And so, you know, it was a really, it was a great experience. So I did have an effect on me, I guess, in the sense of being able to, there were several areas that I grew in. One of which, by the way, was the technology. I was playing, not only saxophone, I was playing a wind synthesizer, which was, it's like a, you know, set up like a saxophone in the sense, but I was playing violins and old

bow, all kinds of stuff digitally, you know. So yeah, it was, it was, it was a great experience overall. Besides performing, you're also interested in producing other artists. How important is that to Kirk Williams' development and broadening his horizons? I had to come to grips with the idea of producing when I realized I did a produced one album for a guy Alexander Zonjik on Warner Brothers and his album is actually one of the pre's. And I had, you know, it's a very time consuming undertaking. And I really began to, because I enjoyed it, and I really liked the idea of being able to supplement my income by producing other albums. And just also, as you said, it brought my horizons. But I had to say, you know, come to a point where I had to focus more. Because I was beginning to be really dispersed as a writer, a player, producer. And you could really say writer, producer, performer, live performer, and studio musician.

So those four elements, it's not to mention father and husband, and minister of the gospel and all those things, you know, I mean, I felt like I was really beginning to spread out. I found myself in a sense focusing more. And musically, I just really try to put more energy into practicing and playing the saxophone. When producing gigs arise, you know, I'm just kind of analyzing them one by one. I'm not out looking to be a producer, or if that matter, writer, you know, I like writing songs from my records and people that I just submitted, did a tune for George Benson's record. I performed on six songs on that record and then submitted a tune for, you know, that we did, whether or not it makes the record, you know. So, you know, I just try to focus more. Jazz saxophonist Kirk Whalam.

If you have a question or comment or suggestions asked the future in Black America programs, write us. Reviews and opinions expressed on this program are not necessarily those of this station or the University of Texas at Austin. Until we have the opportunity again for in Black America's technical producer Cliff Hargrove, I'm John L. Hanson Jr., please join us again next week. Cassette copies of this program are available and may be purchased by writing in Black America cassettes, Longhorn Radio Network, Communication Building B, UT Austin, Austin Texas 78712, that's in Black America cassettes, Longhorn Radio Network, Communication Building B, UT Austin, Austin, Texas 78712. From the Center for Telecommunication Services, the University of Texas at Austin, this is the Longhorn Radio Network.

I'm John L. Hanson Jr., join me this week on in Black America. I feel like a real novice and so I never have still never felt like my strong point is the studio. So I think that's something that I'm growing in and I'm certainly growing a lot in. But no, I'm a live musician and that's really my strong point. Jazz saxophone is Kirk Whalum this week on in Black America.