Urban Affairs Report; James Forman In The Riverside Church

it's [sound of children playing] [sound of children playing] [music] [Announcer] Urban Affairs Report, each weekend at this time, the WRVR urban affairs unit examines the issues that effect urban life. Tonight communion sunday at Riverside [music] Good evening, the ferment of our times spilled over

into Riverside Church this week it happened on Sunday morning when black militant leader James Forman accompanied by a group of associates, disrupted the morning communion service. By yesterday Riverside Church had joined the schools and colleges and their troubles on page one of the New York Times. WRVR, the radio station of the Riverside Church will devote its urban affairs report tonight, to this incident on it's home ground, first the background. Last Saturday evening, Mr. Forman called on Dr. Ernest T. Campbell, preaching minister at Riverside, and asked permission to read during the Sunday service, a series of demands aimed at the church, and referred to as a Black Manifesto. Mr. Forman who was the first executive secretary of SNCC, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, was representing the National Black Economic Development Conference, Dr. Campbell denied the request, saying that it was a communion Sunday but told Forman that he could pass out his manifesto before the service. And to all intents and purposes that was how it was going to be on Sunday morning.

what finally happened came as a complete surprise, WRVR was on the air as usual, that is we were broadcasting service live as we do each Sunday morning at 10:45, organist Frederick Swan had played the usual organ prelude, and swung into the long opening hymn, the congregation was nearing the end of the hymn, when our engineer heard a commotion, Dr. Campbell began to speak then his voice trailed off, the organ began again, loudly but Mr. Forman was heard through the music and eventually the music stopped. Mr. Forman had come up to the chancell and Dr. Campbell had stepped down, and he the other participating clergyman, the choir, and some parishioners left the name, Mr. Forman then spoke to the remainder of the congregation, here is what our machines recorded [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing]

[Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing]

[Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing]

[Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Choir Singing] [Organ Music] [Forman] must be brought before this congregation, there are certain matters that must be brought before this congregation, and I have a [inaudible] to the board of deacons and the membership of Rivierside Church that I would like to read [Campbell] I would like to invite

the attention of the congregation. [Forman] On Saturday May 3, 1969, I met with your pastor Ernest, Campbell I gave him a copy of the Black Manifesto and read to him the specific demands we were making upon Riverside Church and why we were making them, what I was going to read ladies and gentleman, it was not my intention to interrupt this church service, and I was going to read something which explained precisely what had happened, and it was to the board of deacons, and the membership for Riverside Church, The Black Manifesto has specific demands upon Riverside church, On Saturday May, 3 1969, which was yesterday, I met with your pastor, Ernest Campbell, and I gave him a copy of the Black Manifesto [room tone]

[room tone] and read to him the specific demands we were making upon Riverside Church, and why we were making them We asked him to give us time to read the Black Manifesto, he refused, stating that today, May 4th, 1969 was a day of communion, we asked him for another date, because we understood that it was a day of communion, and that we did not want to interrupt that day of communion, just a moment, he refused to give us another date, he refused to give us any date and stated that after all this was a theological question, and that the Black Manifesto was a sociological paper, the Black Manifesto has been adopted by the general board of the National Concil of Churches which met just Friday, representing all of the denominations, it was accepted by 2 of the highest Episcopal bishops in this city, on May the 1st 1969, The Riverside Church is in the heart of the Harlem community, as are a few other racist institutions, the demand to black people are relevant to any church which is operating in or near a black community, or anywhere in the United States for that matter, based upon the refusal to grant us the privilege of publicly reading the manifesto, we

have resorted to making this statement, Incidentally he said he would most likely have us arrested if we attempted a lock in on any church property, by these words he is showing his true white racism regardless of the facade that he tries to present, that he is so liberal, and really wants to help the negro, in conversation he told us about his black girlfriend that he used to have in Harlem to indicate how liberal he really is, we have tried to be very reasonable... [fades out] [fades in] ...circulate this memorandum widely in Harlem so that the Harlem black community will become aware of the racist nature of the Riverside Church and its leadership, especially its leadership, and we assure you that if these demands are not met,

the Harlem community will begin to take appropriate action, for no church has a right to exist if it cannot be responsive to the needs of black people if its located near black community. We demand, 1. Rent free office space for the National Black Economic Development Conference with unrestricted rights to use a telephone for local and long distance telephone calls. This demand to include the use of classrooms for educational purposes for the Harlem community. 2. The unrestricted uses of radio station WRVR for 12 hours a day, and it operates 24 hours a day, and all day Saturday and Sunday except for those time when the sermons are broadcast on Sundays. The director of programming shall be selected by the National Black Economic Development Conference who in turn shall select the staff, the purpose is is that this radio station is right in the Harlem community and should be responsive to it and should have programs geared to the black community of Harlem. 3.

60 percent of the yearly income from all church stock property and real estate to be given to the National Black Economic Development Conference on January 3rd of each year. The first payment shall be made on January 3, 1970. 4. A list of all church assets, including real estate and stock holdings, pension, retirement, investment funds, the proportion of these funds to be donated to the National Black Economic Development Conference shall be negotiated once the assets are known The above for demands are to be met by 9am, May 11, 1969. The Riverside Church is to use its influence and historic reputation to pressure all white racist christian churches and jewish synagogues, to meet the demand of the National Black Economic Development Conference for $500 million dollars in reparations due to the role of the christian and jewish religions in exploiting black people in this country, however In no case should the Riverside Church assume that its contribution to the specific demands we are making a part of the overall $500 million dollars, we have stated in our Black Manifesto, that our demand for $500 million dollars can not

be minimized, it can only be increased, due to the special power and exploi- this is important, exploitative and racist role of John D. Rockefeller, who endowed the Riverside Church we feel we are correct in stating that the Riverside Church must pay extra reparations to black people through the National Black Economic Development Conference, for the money of John D. Rockefeller is still exploiting people of color all around the world. and this we can debate with anybody, the Chase Manhattan bank is run by the Rockefellers, and that bank is all over the world exploiting people, moreover the Riverside Church located as it is, directly across the street from the center of power, in the protestant religion, must serve notice on 475 Riverside Drive, that we we are are dead about our demands, and we are prepared to die, we are

prepared to die for their implementation, while we did not place a time limit on when we wanted the $500 million dollars in reparations, to be paid, let no christian or jew think that we are going to string out this matter or that payment of this reparation can be evaded, time is running out fast, and it behooves the christians and jews to get together and decide to meet these modest demands. We have tried to be reasonable and patient, not withstanding our long years, 349, of servitude in this country, in New York alone, on May 1, 1969, We talked to the 2 most powerful bishops of the episcopal church, they agreed that the church was racist, and would consider our demands, the General Board of the National Council of Churches adopted on May 2nd in 1969, a resolution calling upon all churches to consider ways to implement the resolution, and the Riverside Church is a part of that, and we say that this minister was trying to usurp the power of the general board and was not willing to let us do that. We regret very much that we've had to come in here in this manner, but the day has passed when black people are going to allow any white

man to stop us from presenting out demands Jews are demanding and getting reparations for 6 million jews killed in Germany, 50 million black people have been killed in the slave trade in this country, and not one penny in reparations are being paid, moreover, black people were slaves in this country, built the industrial base of this country, built the agricultural base from which the surplus profits was made and we're not getting one quarter in reparations, so we say we are new black men and black women, and that is expressed in the National Black Economic Development Conference, and we have some slogans and I thank you for your time, those of you who have stayed in here, I apologize again for the corrupt behavior of your minister, and I think you should retire him from the church and I say that therefore our patience is thin, time is running out we have been slaves too long, the church has profited from our labor, the church is racist, we are men and women, proud black men and women

our demands shall be met, reparations or no church, victory or death, thank you. [Host] You have just heard a recording of the interrupted Sunday service at Riverside Church, a form of service did however take place later after James Forman left, Dr. Campbell returned together with the other ministers and the choir, the organ swelled into "A Mighty Fortress is our God" choir and congregation joined in then Dr. Campbell spoke to the congregation here now is that part of the service [Speaker] We are waiting temporarily til w can resume the sound on this microphone in order that Dr. Campbell may make a statement to try to interpret what has happened this morning, and where we think we are as church in relation to it.

While we are waiting to try to get sound resumed, we invite you to join in singing hymn 3 6 73 [organ music] [choir singing] [silence]

[Campbell] I should like my first word this morning to be one of appreciation to you the members of the congregation for responding as intelligently and cooperativelyas you did it has been one of my preaching points for the last 4 or 5 years that most of us who might be regarded as being with the establishment in one way or another, have not yet learned how to cope with ferment and this morning we responded according to the best lights we had, I'm sure that there are those who would second guess us and perhaps with the gift of hindsight which is almost infallible indicate another course that might have been taken, I'd like to believe without becoming overly pious about it, that in a way this could be one of Riverside's greatest mornings. There's a sense in

which a sermon of tremendous power has already been preached out in the narthects as folks wondered whether there would or would not be the resumption of worship. It seemed to me as I overheard snatches of conversation, that the hearts of many of us were revealed some of us who perhaps have inwardly felt that the black man was pushing too fast and too far surfaced in our reactions, others of us who might call ourselves liberals regarding this movement are wondering about our solidarity and what one does, vis a vis a group that recognizes only that the structure is decadent and that revolution is the only cure

I think I owe it to you and to our friends who may be sharing these remarks by way of WRVR to indicate just the plain physical sequences they are not many, and this will not take long, I was working in my study last night, confessing publicly now that I had some finishing touches to do on today's meditation and received a phone call from Mr Forman at 9:15 he said he would like to see me and see me that night, I suggested that I could give him an hour, and no more, because of the kind of day that awaited me even then I suspected, I guess, that it would be a long day, in the meantime I telephoned a member of our board of

deacons who has worked very closely with members of the black and white community, and who happens to be an attorney at law trying to get an initial feel from him on what our response should be, I had tried first to reach our minister of urban affairs only to find that he had committed himself to preaching out of the city this weekend, this attorney offered to come up and visit with my guest, but i suggested that since the man had indicated that he was coming more or less by himself that I thought it best that we meet one to one. When Mr. Forman arrived, he was accompanied by another, which would indicate that he had an opportunity then to perhaps put a construction on our time together that Ii would not subscribe to. My impression of last evening was that it was cordial and affirmative, he was kind

enough to acknowledge that our record in the ministry has been one that has shown a keen sympathy for justice and several times he mentioned that in a way he wished that the preaching minister here were not of that order because then the assault could be more direct and wholehearted, the substance of what this group was trying to convey is found in a manifesto that I had never seen before until last night, being a faithful reader of the New York Times, I wonder why if a document is of this scope and magnitude it was not printed up in full, and so this was fanned through rather carefully, a manifesto to the white christian churches and the jewish synagogues in the United States of America and all other racist institutions, it was presented by James Forman and

delivered and adopted by the National Black Economic Development Conference in Detroit on April 26, 1969, it was the desire of Mr. Forman to read this manifesto in the service in lieu of a meditation or a sermon feeling somewhat that worship, has a little more integrity to it than this, and that 10 o'clock at night is hardly the time to propose this kind of a change, I assured him that we would be careful to give this manifesto the input that he wanted it to have at Riverside Church, my impression was that he would agree to distribute copies of the manifesto outside this morning, leave the service uninterrupted so that we could go on together in good faith and search out the best way in which to get the substance of this manifesto, before the officers and

members of the Riverside Church, there was never any intention on my part to keep Riverside Church from hearing and responding to this manifesto, I guess where we differed was on the question of how? and not so much on the question of whether? This manifesto is too lengthy for me to read to you just now, but the basic plank is that reparations are in order to the black community because of the suppression of the black man in this country for hundreds of years the figure of $500 million is the figure and over and beyond that there are specific requests that are to be made of particular local churches and those churches in responding will not be making up the $500 million so that actually the $500 million is a base figure and the ultimate figure if all other churches uhh

who are overtured respond the way they are asked to respond will be well beyond that figure. When I got here this morning, I found that I must have been a different meeting from the one that Mr Forman and I and his friend were at last night, there were several accusations made that I will not pick up here because I think they are self evidently both absurd and impossible but the insistence was that something be read this morning, overnight there had been a change of strategy, perhaps Mr. Forman felt that he had conceded too much, and that being a national leader of this movement in order to save face, he must make a renewed effort to be heard in this service, feeling that this was a

response in bad faith because of arrangements that we had made I refused to allow this to happen insofar as it was in my power to make the refusal, we agreed among ourselves rightly or wrongly that we would not see the worship service here desecrated by shouts and counter shouts and make a travesty of the lord's body and blood here today and so when the move was made shortly after 11 o'clock as agreed upon we decided then and there, that the service would terminate I'd like to read you, a statement that I wrote early this morning as a preliminary response to this manifesto, and I want very much to have us not to be so- not to become so concerned about tactics that we lose our eye for what is really of substance here

there are abrasive aspects, I'm sure to any manifesto that comes with the kind of steam and trust that this one has, but we would be less than faithful to our lord, if we got sidetracked on a matter tactics and turned off people simply because they style of their approach was not congenial to our temper, this is a brief statement I'd like to read it and then go on to say one or two more words then we'll have a hymn and the benediction. What I fear most about the manifesto issued by the National Black Economic Development Conference is that it will be counterproductive and retard the cause of freedom and equality toward which many have been working, the principle of reparation has sound theological underpinnings, most christian churches in the United States feel penitent about what the white man

has done to the black man in this society, as every priest and pastor knows, restitution is an integral part of penitence, the manifesto has weaknesses, it over simplifies the problem by resorting to a good guy, bad guy motif, it is arbitrary in its determination of a fixed amount due, it fails to distinguish within the christian community those churches that have worked to end segregation and all of its hideous symptoms, in so far as the manifesto has a basic commitment to revolution, they can hardly expect those who believe in radical reform to climb onboard, by further dividing the friends of brotherhood it plays into the hands of the right wing reactionary element, in this country. The christian churches in this country have too long been concerned with private religious experience

to a neglect of basic justice. Payday has come, what the price should be and how and to whom it should be paid are questions properly before the house. Let me write just a brief postscript to this, when we say that the christian churches in this country have so long concerned themselves with private religious experience, to the neglect of basic justice. I think we are on very solid ground, it is a matter of record according to William Warren Sweet, in his book The Story of Religion in America, but at the time of the revolution all the churches in the colonies were opposed to slavery, but when cotton became big business, suddenly there was a shift in

the church's concern, from one of opposition to one of tolerance and eventually to one of support. I believe with all my heart that the emphasis in most of our churches has not centered on matters of basic justice we have been largely otherworldly in our orientation, we think of the saving of a soul, the preparation of a man's life for the life to come, all of which I suppose befits us, who are comfortable, who don't have to scramble for the bare necessities which if we don't have will make any soul talk, totally irrelevant, this is what i mean when i say that we ought to penitent. For the white churches by preaching this kind of gospel, which centers largely in solitary ethical action, and ignores the structures

more or less baptize the arrangements, in this land political, social, and economic that have worked to the detriment of the black man We gave these structures sanction, we ought to be ashamed and penitent, there's also a sense in which if we believe in the solidarity of the generations we have a certain complicity in any of the evils that had been worked in earlier times, I confess that I'm not sure how far we can extend this, somewhere along the line the statute of limitations perhaps ought to set in or else we'll find that we are all interlopers going back to the Garden of Eden. No one, in a sense, has clear title to what he owns. and if the black man can speak with concern about having been

taken, then the indian, no less can make his case as well. There's a sense in which there is an implied complicity when we buy an automobile tire for $25 dollars. We are in a sense, in cahoots with a system in Africa perhaps in Liberia where the rubber trees are tapped, where the man who tap hem might make 30 or 40 cents a day, so that by implication when i purchased a tire at that price, in a sense I am the beneficiary of a system that i can not control but which nevertheless is serving me. Chocolate beans are picked I suppose for substandard wages wherever chocolate beans grow, maybe to be honest about those workers who pick those chocolate beans, we should pay a dollar for the kind of chocolate bar that we now pay 10 cents for. I'm not being facetious here I'm suggesting that by virtue of the complexity

and interrelatedness of our life, especially in economic sphere, none of us including the black community is free from complicity in working some kind of hardship on another person somewhere. All of this leads me to feel that the posture of the church toward any overture should be one of attentiveness and sympathy and openness, and I suggest that the place where any kind of confrontation or dialogue is most likely to feel the strain, will be at the point of how we can work with a group, whose basic judgment as to the potential health of the system differs from ours. I had been in debates with ministers regarding the renewal of the church and there are ministers of great stature who believe

that the church has had it. They are working out now the epitaph for the tombstone and if one believes that the church is really that dead, that unresponsive that apostate, then of course certain consequential actions and programs derive from that conviction, if on the other hand one believes that the church is suffering from compromise with its culture that its hands are not clean, but that God can cleanse the church and renew the church, then he goes from that base to other kinds of goals and programs, and so my suspicion is that at the heart of this request for dialogue comes a fundamental difference as to whether we do or do not believe in the systems that we have inherited. It may be that we can, in a sense, a table that issue

in the interest of pressing needs that speak to us all needs regarding education, housing, business opportunities, and the like. And so what we need is the guidance of God we need to be delivered from as much subjectivity as God can work in us, to the end at at this point in the nation's seething unrest, we might be faithful not only to our brothers, but also to our lord. I should like us now before we sing our closing hymn to bow our heads in a moment of prayer. Eternal God, our father

we have come within these walls that we might gain perspective on our lives and on our world. We have come that we might know ourselves in better knowing Thee. We have come that we might find new ways in which to faithfully represent Thee in the life of the world about us. We pray earnestly that Thou wilt deliver us from every trace of prejudice. That the fact that we are in Christ may be the transcendent and dominant fact of our life. That all petty local suspicions, all misimpressions might give way before this One whom we call Lord. Keep us open

to each other and to Thee and grant that when we tremble for the ark of God we may eyes to know that Thou art from everlasting to everlasting and that Thy kingdom is sure and that our security is in the risk we run as we bear Thy name. All of this we pray in the strong name of Jesus Christ our Lord whose is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever [Campbell] Amen. [Harry Joseph] That was Dr. Ernest T. Campbell, preaching minister of the Riverside Church in the city of New York. Dr. Campbell spoke extemporaneously to a reassembly of the Riverside congregation following the interruption and termination of the originally

scheduled communion service on Sunday. Earlier you heard the abbreviated service including James Forman's remarks to the congregation. The Black Manifesto read by Forman stated that white religious institutions are a part of a capitalist system that has aided and abetted in the exploitation of Negroes and essentially a call for churches and synagogues to pay reparations to Black Americans. Reaction to Sunday's events came swiftly. Mayor Lindsay expressed dismay and announced that a conference of church leaders will be called at City Hall this week to discuss measures to counter what he called intimidation. Mr. Forman fired back in a press conference earlier today. He said neither the National Black Economic Development Conference which he represents nor any of the participating agencies could at this point be turned aside in the pursuit of their goal by any statements from the mayor. Meanwhile Protestant church leaders reacted cautiously. While generally deploring the tactics that cause cancellation of Sunday's communion service at Riverside, many expressed sympathy with the demands of the militants. Others felt that increased efforts by churches in the

field of race relations were indeed in order. Some even endorsed the idea that Negroes were entitled to a form of reparation for their enslavement by this country. And today the Interreligious Foundation for Community Organization also backed the Black Manifesto. The Foundation is a coalition of Protestant, Roman Catholic, Jewish, Black and Mexican American organizations. In a press conference this afternoon, its director, the Reverend Lucius Walker said the foundation supports both the principal and the programmatic aspects of the National Black Economic Development Conference and he urged that the churches provide $270,000 to help launch the program. This Saturday evening at 10 o'clock Riverside radio will broadcast a report to the congregation by Dr. Ernest T. Campbell preaching minister of Riverside Church. Dr. Campbell will outline the church's response to Mr. Forman's demands. Until Saturday evening, church leaders are silent about their plans. Urban Affairs Report was written by Rene [Glaser?] and edited by Gene Temple. Producer was Barney Quinn. This is Harry Joseph for

the WRVR urban affairs unit. [music] Urban Affairs Report, a weekly hour in which Riverside Radio examines the issues that affect urban life. This is the Eastern Educational Radio Network. [music] [silence]

[silence]