An Empire of Reason

<v Speaker>Passport. <v Speaker>Where do you think you're goin' with just New Jersey money, Mack? <v Speaker>You see that sign up there? You're entering New York. <v Mario Cuomo>Hello, I'm Mario Cuomo. Governor of the state of New York. <v Tom Kaine>And I'm Tom Kaine. Governor of the state of New Jersey. <v Tom Kaine>No, we haven't set up border guards between New York and New Jersey. <v Tom Kaine>In fact, the scene you are witnessing can't happen in America. <v Tom Kaine>It can't happen precisely because we are United States. <v Tom Kaine>We live under a constitution in which each one of our states retains its rights <v Tom Kaine>and particular personality. But where the country operates is a strong united hope. <v Mario Cuomo>It was one thing to write the Constitution, it was quite another to get the people <v Mario Cuomo>to agree with it. A fierce debate took place on my side of the line in <v Mario Cuomo>New York state, where a majority of voters fought against the Constitution. <v Mario Cuomo>Now, how would television have covered this story if it had been around two

<v Mario Cuomo>hundred years ago? Well, let's find out. <v Mario Cuomo>We'll take away the Perry wigs and the quaint language. <v Mario Cuomo>We dress our ancestors in jeans and three piece suits, and we'll watch how <v Mario Cuomo>they are doing. Two centuries ago, the case for becoming a nation. <v Mario Cuomo>[music] <v Narrator>All of the ideas and arguments in this program come from historical records of the <v Narrator>ratification debates 1787 to 1788. <v Narrator>The personalities of the characters are also based on historical record. <v Narrator>For example, 33 year old Alexander Hamilton was brilliant, good-Looking <v Narrator>and very arrogant. <v Narrator>At the time of these debates politics was the exclusive domain of white males. <v Narrator>Even though blacks and women fought and died in the Revolutionary War, they <v Narrator>were excluded from the political process. <v Narrator>It is 1787, a period of turmoil. <v Narrator>The United States has won its freedom from England, but has no effective central

<v Narrator>government. Every state is self-governing and the Continental Congress, <v Narrator>located in New York City, has little real power. <v Narrator>You are tuned to the voice of free America. <v Narrator>The continential television network. <v Narrator>March 1st, 1787. <v Narrator>This is CTM Nightly News, your host, Walter Cronkite. <v Walter Cronkite>Good evening. Here in New York the Continental Congress has broke down. <v Walter Cronkite>It's been over a year since the delegate from Dutchess County, Langdon Smith, introduced <v Walter Cronkite>his motion urging Connecticut, New Jersey and North Carolina to pay their share <v Walter Cronkite>of the costs to running. The government committed Smith today, "we're still <v Walter Cronkite>waiting." In a related story, we've learned that New York State's delegates to the <v Walter Cronkite>Philadelphia convention finally have been confirmed. <v Walter Cronkite>Their alexander Hamilton from New York, Robert Yates from Albany, and that town's <v Walter Cronkite>mayor, John Lansing. <v Walter Cronkite>Alexander Hamilton comments on what they hope to achieve in Philadelphia this summer.

<v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Everyone knows that the Confederation of States has been experiencing a variety of <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>difficulties in recent years. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Most states do not support Congress, nor do they carry their share of the national debt. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>And some have even begun openly to have trade wars with each other. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>We intend to be discussing these issues. <v Walter Cronkite>New York Delegate Alexander Hamilton. <v Walter Cronkite>There is mounting fear in Columbia County tonight, dispersed by the Massachusetts <v Walter Cronkite>militia. Leaders of what has become known as the Shays rebellion, have escaped <v Walter Cronkite>across the border into New York, causing panic and this reaction from <v Walter Cronkite>New York's governor, George Clinton. <v George Clinton Actor>It is a rebellion against all law and order in our society. <v George Clinton Actor>New York is offering a reward for any Shays rebel captured in the state, <v George Clinton Actor>a militia headed by myself. <v George Clinton Actor>We'll track down the leaders. <v George Clinton Actor>New York state will not be a haven for Massachusetts terrorists. <v Walter Cronkite>What is behind this unrest? <v Walter Cronkite>For a special report we go to Citizens Massachusetts correspondent Forrest Sawyer.

<v Forrest Sawyer>Shays Rebellion is a rebellion of farmers. <v Forrest Sawyer>One further result of our faltering economy. <v Speaker>Get your buy numbers right here. <v Forrest Sawyer>A farm auction in Wurster, an increasingly common sight in these hard times. <v Forrest Sawyer>Since last August, farmers unable to pay their taxes are going deeper and deeper <v Forrest Sawyer>into debt. In public auctions all over the state farmers are losing their equipment, <v Forrest Sawyer>their livestock and their land, everything they fought and worked for. <v Forrest Sawyer>Some have become desperate men. <v Daniel Shays Actor>We'll shut down the entire legal system by force if necessary. <v Forrest Sawyer>Men like Daniel Shays, a captain in the Revolutionary War, now himself an impoverished <v Forrest Sawyer>farmer. For Shays and his men, armed rebellion seemed to be the only answer. <v Daniel Shays Actor>We'll block the courts. <v Daniel Shays Actor>We will not give up our farms. <v Daniel Shays Actor>With guns we defeated the redcoats from London, with guns we will defeat these tyrants <v Daniel Shays Actor>from the statehouse in Boston. <v Forrest Sawyer>By last month, this band of insurgents had grown to the size of a small army, 1800 <v Forrest Sawyer>men. inevitable confrontation came here near the Springfield Armory, where the

<v Forrest Sawyer>Shays farmers fought the well-armed state militia led by General Shepherd. <v Forrest Sawyer>Three of the insurgents were killed. Many more were wounded. <v Forrest Sawyer>And now the rebellion has been crushed, its leaders dispersed. <v Forrest Sawyer>A bloody ending to the state's most serious civil disturbance. <v Forrest Sawyer>Reporting from Springfield, Massachusetts. <v Forrest Sawyer>This is Forrest Sawyer. <v Walter Cronkite>For commentary on these events, John Chancellor. <v John Chancellor>Walter, the Shay's rebellion is just the tip of the iceberg. <v John Chancellor>There is a general breakdown of confidence in government. <v John Chancellor>Our loose confederation of states is just not working. <v John Chancellor>The Continental Congress has become, well, a joke. <v John Chancellor>It has no money or power. We live in very real danger that some hostile group <v John Chancellor>is going to take advantage of our internal chaos and attempt to takeover of the states. <v John Chancellor>Some of our most loyal citizens are so disgusted with the disorder of the last few <v John Chancellor>years that they might well support this takeover. <v John Chancellor>The British will have the last laugh. They've been telling us all along that a government <v John Chancellor>without a monarchy is an unworkable system.

<v John Chancellor>I hope for the sake of America, they're wrong. <v John Chancellor>And that's commentary for this evening, Walter. <v Walter Cronkite>Thank you, John. In a speech before New York City's Chamber of Commerce today, <v Walter Cronkite>Secretary of Foreign Affairs, John Jay, reported that two more American ships, <v Walter Cronkite>the Boston and the Hudson, have been captured by pirates off the coast of Tripoli. <v Walter Cronkite>Fifty sailors are missing and presumed dead. <v John Jay Actor>I ask you this question. <v John Jay Actor>Would Spain suffer this kind of humiliation? <v John Jay Actor>Would Portugal? We're weak. <v John Jay Actor>We have no unified foreign policy so other nations spit on <v John Jay Actor>our flag. Weakness at home is <v John Jay Actor>danger abroad. <v Walter Cronkite>And finally tonight. Do you know this animal? <v Walter Cronkite>This is a familiar site to residents of New York City. <v Walter Cronkite>But for some irate citizens, porky should stay off the streets and <v Walter Cronkite>in the back yard where he belongs. <v Speaker>We'll fight. Left, right, left and right.

<v Speaker>If the pigs don't go, we will fight. <v Speaker>New York City has almost 30,000 people and we still don't have any organized <v Speaker>form of garbage collection. And these awful animals eating all the trash? <v Speaker>[crowd yelling] <v Speaker>What <v Speaker>kind of craziness is this? <v Speaker>The next thing you know, they'll be out here asking the city to provide them with <v Speaker>drinking water and sidewalks and parking lots for their horses. <v Speaker>This has got to stop. <v Walter Cronkite>Al Roker, what kind of garbage can we expect coming from the upper atmosphere? <v Al Roker>Well, Walter, those pigs are going to have to get out their overcoats because for some of <v Al Roker>our 13 states at least, the long, hard winter is returning. <v Al Roker>The temperature in New York City will be plunging down to a bone chilling 28 degrees. <v Al Roker>Looking at the map, here's what's going to be causing the cold snap. <v Al Roker>The trouble is this high here over our northwestern territories bringing cold, cold <v Al Roker>air down from British Canada, down around the lakes and into the entire northern regions <v Al Roker>of the confederation, from Massachusetts here to northern Pennsylvania.

<v Al Roker>Cold, cold temperatures with a 10 at Rutland in the independent country of Vermont. <v Al Roker>There's going to be heavy snow in New York's Indian territories. <v Al Roker>Snow at White's Town. No one Canada to look for a 12 degree reading at Fort Edward, <v Al Roker>but warmer near the coast at Brunswick and Portland here in northern Massachusetts. <v Al Roker>It'll stay much, much warmer south of the front. <v Al Roker>They'll have sunshine in Savannah and a cheery fifty degrees and forty five at Annapolis <v Al Roker>in the great southern state of Maryland. <v Al Roker>In our hot air balloon photos taken earlier today, you'll notice the clouds over the <v Al Roker>northern states. But by contrast, clear skies throughout the south at the frontier <v Al Roker>here in Louisville, Virginia. No clouds over the southwest territories all the way <v Al Roker>to the Mississippi and down across the border into Spanish New Orleans and St. Augustine. <v Al Roker>And looking ahead to the weekend, we're gonna call for sunshine and a teeny bit warmer, <v Al Roker>Walter. <v Walter Cronkite>Thanks, Al. And that's the way it is. <v Walter Cronkite>Thursday, March 1st, 1787. <v Walter Cronkite>I'm Walter Cronkite. Good night. <v Narrator>From the Atlantic to the Mississippi, this is the Continental Television Network.

<v Trading Eddie>It's Trading Eddie's constitutional blow out blitz! <v Trading Eddie>Don't have any hard cash. Well, no one does. <v Trading Eddie>So let's barter. Trading Eddie guarantees you the best barter deal you'll find <v Trading Eddie>anywhere south of Poughkeepsie. Wheat, rye and barley, Trading Eddie got them. <v Trading Eddie>Barbato sugar, ginger, rum and pickled oysters. <v Trading Eddie>Trading Eddie's got 'em, too. <v Trading Eddie>So come on in. Bring in your extra hemp, buttons, glass, nails and spikes. <v Trading Eddie>You got boots. We got limes. <v Trading Eddie>You got stockings. We got gloves, razors, coffee, blankets and much more. <v Trading Eddie>It's Trading Eddie's constitutional blow out blitz. <v Trading Eddie>Let's bring the whole family barter it now, because anyone who accepts <v Trading Eddie>continental dollars must be insane. <v Narrator>Seven months later, September 28, 1787, <v Narrator>the proposed constitution just signed in Philadelphia must now be ratified <v Narrator>by the 13 states in New York state. <v Narrator>The fight has already begun. <v Narrator>[music]

<v Robert MacNeil>Good evening. For almost five months, there's been a total press blackout at the <v Robert MacNeil>Philadelphia convention, and under this pledge of secrecy, the best political minds <v Robert MacNeil>of the country have been deliberating, convened originally to iron out certain <v Robert MacNeil>problems with the Articles of Confederation. <v Robert MacNeil>The convention quickly became nothing short of a full scale debate on a new form of <v Robert MacNeil>national government. And here's the result of their labors, a rather brief document <v Robert MacNeil>beginning We the people of the United States. <v Robert MacNeil>In its seven articles it does nothing less than completely redefine the <v Robert MacNeil>government and power structure of this country to become law this new constitution <v Robert MacNeil>must be accepted by at least nine of the 13 states. <v Robert MacNeil>But across the country, a campaign against ratification has already begun. <v Robert MacNeil>To comment we have three delegates who represented New York <v Robert MacNeil>State at the Philadelphia convention. <v Robert MacNeil>Joining us in our Albany studio, the mayor of that city, John Lansing Jr.

<v Robert MacNeil>and Judge Robert Yates. <v Robert MacNeil>And here in our New York studio, Alexander Hamilton, a lawyer. <v Robert MacNeil>Judge Yates, I understand that even though you and Mayor Lansing participated in the <v Robert MacNeil>debates, you strongly objected to the document that finally came up. <v Robert MacNeil>Why is that? <v Robert Yates Actor>First of all, let me point out that we didn't sign it. <v Robert Yates Actor>We didn't even stay to the end of the convention. <v Robert Yates Actor>The government of New York never authorized us to be part of a plan to deprive the <v Robert Yates Actor>state of its rights and its sovereignty. <v Robert Yates Actor>When it became clear by July that the convention had been taken over by <v Robert Yates Actor>a federalist clique supported by the way, by Mr Hamilton, <v Robert Yates Actor>a clique determined to tear up the Articles of Confederation and set up a central <v Robert Yates Actor>government with unlimited powers. <v Robert Yates Actor>We packed our bags and went home. <v Robert Yates Actor>Mr. Hamilton's signature on this document is exactly that, his signature, <v Robert Yates Actor>it does not represent the majority opinion of the delegates from New York, nor, <v Robert Yates Actor>I dare say, does it represent the opinion of the people of New York.

<v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Well, I'm sorry, Mr. Yates, that you didn't stick around. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>The constitution that we came up with in Philadelphia is an answer to the profound <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>crisis that this country has been going through for the last 10 years. <v Robert MacNeil>You have to agree, Mr. Yates, don't you, that our country is in serious trouble. <v Robert MacNeil>The economy, national defense. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Absolutely. In fact, I consider it a topographical piece of luck that we have the <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Atlantic between us and our enemies, because that is the only thing protecting us from <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>invasion. We are in the midst of a terrible depression. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Lenders in this country have completely lost faith in their system. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>That's hardly surprising with you and your friends tearing down the country. <v Robert Yates Actor>We all sat listening to these tales of gloom and doom that you and your cronies <v Robert Yates Actor>were spreading at the convention. What country are you talking about? <v Robert Yates Actor>It's not the Confederation of States that I know. <v Robert Yates Actor>It's not the confederation that got us through a long war with the most powerful country <v Robert Yates Actor>on earth. We won that one. <v Robert Yates Actor>Mr. Hamilton. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>Exactly. It's in Mr. Hamilton's interest to create a crisis so that he and his friends <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>can grab power. Mr. MacNeil, this constitution is nothing more than

<v John Lansing Jr. Actor>a plot to take away our civil liberties. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>We shouldn't just vote against this elite who are so quick to take away power from the <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>people. We should send them back up to Canada with the rest of their Brit friends. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>If you're attacking my loyalty, let me remind you both that I too fought side by <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>side with loyal patriots from all the third. <v Robert MacNeil>Mr. Lansing. Gentlemen, gentlemen, I don't think we're going to send anyone into <v Robert MacNeil>exile in Canada this evening. <v Robert MacNeil>Let me put this question to all of you, starting with Mr. Hamilton. <v Robert MacNeil>Is the concept of a central government running our country as large <v Robert MacNeil>as ours really a workable idea? <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Yes, rather it is. We have a wonderful system of transportation with our wide <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>rivers. We already trade with each other. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>We speak the same language. We are one people. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>We already as a nation have made war. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>What's your point, Hamil. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>The point is that we are already a country, not 13 separate little republics. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>The question before us is very simply, do we want to become a strong <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>nation or remain a weak one? <v Robert MacNeil>But Mr. Hamilton, your critics point to the size of this nation.

<v Robert MacNeil>A thousand miles long, eight hundred miles from the ocean to the Mississippi, four <v Robert MacNeil>million people. How can one central government really run such a huge <v Robert MacNeil>country? <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Robert, the question. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>What about Mr. Hamilton, he grew up in the Caribbean. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>Maybe to him, all Americans are exactly alike. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>Well, we have different religions. We have different economic interests. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>We are not the same. That's why we have 13 governments. <v Robert Yates Actor>Look around the world. Hamilton, read your history books. <v Robert Yates Actor>Give me an example of one large country where the common <v Robert Yates Actor>man is not oppressed. <v Robert Yates Actor>True liberty government by the people for the people is only <v Robert Yates Actor>possible in small republic. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>And what happens when these small republic start fighting with each other? <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>We already have border disputes between Maryland, North Carolina and Virginia, New <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Hampshire and New York. Now you tell me to look at my history books. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Well, I take a look at Europe and I see a patchwork of small states whose borders <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>are constantly changing and have experienced 2,000 years of war. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>What you both don't seem to understand or don't want to.

<v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Is that this country, our great nation, is in very real danger of falling apart. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>Mr. Hamilton is very clever at twisting words. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>Nobody is against a stronger confederation in matters of defense and trade. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>What we are against is this constitution which gives all sorts of <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>massive powers to this central government. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>New Yorkers will be made to live under laws made up not by their neighbors, but by people <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>from from Georgia. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>How many New Yorkers have been spoke every day and spoken to someone from New Jersey, <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>never mind Georgia. <v Robert Yates Actor>Mr. Hamilton, you are asking us to trust politicians <v Robert Yates Actor>with our dearest freedoms. <v Robert Yates Actor>The liberty that our countrymen have died for. <v Robert Yates Actor>Now we know enough not to surrender with a little ink. <v Robert Yates Actor>But it's taken gallons of blood to defend. <v Robert Yates Actor>Fix that confederation, fine, but forget this evil document. <v Robert Yates Actor>Let's stay small.

<v Robert Yates Actor>Let's stay local and let's stay free. <v Robert MacNeil>And let us the viewers stay tuned. <v Robert MacNeil>I want to thank you. Alexander Hamilton. <v Robert MacNeil>And in Albany, John Lansing and Robert Yates. <v Robert MacNeil>In the next 10 months it will be up to the 13 states to decide. <v Robert MacNeil>And we will be following their debates from Massachusetts to Georgia, I'm Robert MacNeil. <v Robert MacNeil>For all of us here at CTM, good night. <v Robert MacNeil>[music] <v Narrator>This is the Continental Television Network. <v Narrator>The following is a paid political announcement. <v Speaker>These are our ships on fire, trade or Barbary pirates. <v Speaker>Where is the American Navy? <v Speaker>These are British cannons, still controlling the western frontier of New York <v Speaker>state. Where is the American army? <v Speaker>These are Spanish ships controlling the Mississippi River, access <v Speaker>to the Great Western Plains. <v Speaker>Where is the American Coast Guard?

<v Speaker>We are American states, but we are not united. <v Speaker>And around the world, our enemies laugh at a nation without <v Speaker>a national government is no nation at all. <v Speaker>Vote America. Support your candidate for the ratification of <v Speaker>the Constitution. Paid for by the New Federalists Committee. <v Narrator>Six months later, April 5th, 1788, six states <v Narrator>have ratified the Constitution. <v Narrator>New York State will hold its ratifying convention at the end of June. <v Narrator>The selection of delegates begins. <v Walter Cronkite>To ratify or not to ratify? <v Walter Cronkite>That's the question facing New York voters. <v Walter Cronkite>Where do New Yorkers stand on the proposed constitution? <v Walter Cronkite>It's an issue which will vitally affect the future of their state and the future of their <v Walter Cronkite>country. Stay tuned for this election special. <v Walter Cronkite>[music] <v Narrator>This news special is brought to you by Express Rider for those letters

<v Narrator>and documents that just can't wait. <v Narrator>Delivered positively absolutely within two months for your money back. <v Narrator>The men behind the issues. <v Narrator>Your host, Andrea Mitchell. <v Andrea Mitchell>Hello, I'm Andrea Mitchell. <v Andrea Mitchell>The campaign to elect delegates to the upcoming Poughkeepsie convention is in full swing. <v Andrea Mitchell>We've all heard their speeches and read their campaign slogans. <v Andrea Mitchell>Well, today we meet two candidates, Jesse Woodhull and Robert Livingston. <v Andrea Mitchell>We will see the men behind the campaign posters at home, at work <v Andrea Mitchell>and at play. <v Andrea Mitchell>His name is Jesse Woodhull. <v Andrea Mitchell>To his neighbors in Orange County he's an industrious farmer working his 150 <v Andrea Mitchell>acres of land. Government officials at the legislature know him as a judge <v Andrea Mitchell>and state senator. To his militia buddies he is Colonel Woodhull with <v Andrea Mitchell>an impressive war record. <v Andrea Mitchell>For Woodhull, the science of politics is just common sense.

<v Andrea Mitchell>Judge Woodhull, tell us just why are you against a strong national government? <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>Well, no man can serve two masters. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>So what's it gonna be? A state government that we can't control or this <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>all powerful national government constitution is gonna set up? <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>When it comes down to a fight I'll tell you where me and my neighbors are going to stand. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>I've worked hard for what I've got here. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>31 years ago, got them my first tree on this land. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>Except for a war or two I haven't stopped since. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>This all belongs to me. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>I don't tax collector, no constitution, no national government is <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>gonna take it away from me and my kids. <v Andrea Mitchell>Robert R. Livingston, chancellor of the state of New York, with a very different point of <v Andrea Mitchell>view. He helped draft the Declaration of Independence, was elected to several terms <v Andrea Mitchell>in the Continental Congress, where he was secretary for foreign affairs. <v Andrea Mitchell>He's a patriot, an orator, a large landholder and a very <v Andrea Mitchell>wealthy man. Chancellor Livingston, what is it that so upsets you about our system of

<v Andrea Mitchell>government under the Articles of Confederation? <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>Well it really all comes down to this, the wrong sort of people are in government. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>Narrow politicians looking for short term popularity rather than statesmen <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>with long term goals. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>The business of government is no longer local. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>We have a country to run. We need experienced men to lead this nation. <v Andrea Mitchell>Jesse Woodhull, Robert Livingston candidates with two very different visions of this <v Andrea Mitchell>country. These are the men who may determine the fate of the Constitution. <v Andrea Mitchell>And right now in New York State, feelings against ratification are running high. <v Andrea Mitchell>I'm Andrea Mitchell reporting. <v Narrator>One month later, May 2nd, 1788. <v Narrator>New York has voted. Woodhull and Livingston won seats to the ratifying convention, <v Narrator>the anti federalists, the delegates against the Constitution have won a huge <v Narrator>majority.

<v Phil Donahue>This proposed constitution is four pages long and will start a fight <v Phil Donahue>in an empty bar. We have farmers mad at city folks. <v Phil Donahue>We have neighbors arguing with each other. <v Phil Donahue>And there's no other state is the passion and the anger appear to be greater than it <v Phil Donahue>does right here in New York. <v Phil Donahue>And we should say that in this audience, our representatives from every county in New <v Phil Donahue>York and we are pleased also to have on our program today two distinguished guests. <v Phil Donahue>Meet Chancellor Robert Livingston, a man you know well. <v Phil Donahue>As you as you know, he's a framer of the Declaration of Independence and a New York <v Phil Donahue>landowner. Mr. Livingston, it comes as no surprise to you that the <v Phil Donahue>major opposition appears to be the belief that the Constitution, which you so

<v Phil Donahue>passionately support, is a document that will make government farther away <v Phil Donahue>from the people a central, powerful, not really in touch with <v Phil Donahue>real folks. How do you- why should the people, these people of the state <v Phil Donahue>of New York ratify this proposed constitution? <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>Well, Phil, I think it's obvious that the Confederation of States has outlived its <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>usefulness since the country has degenerated into chaos and economic <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>depression. Now, now we've had the best legal minds in the entire country, <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>have worked for three months on this wonderful document and we ought to trust their <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>judgment. [applause] What's best for the country. <v Audience Member>These people, I wouldn't- I wouldn't trust Mr. Livingston and his political cronies <v Audience Member>if they was a chorus of angels. [applause] <v Phil Donahue>He does. He does have a point, doesn't he? <v Phil Donahue>I mean, it is true that before we go jumping down this man's throat, <v Phil Donahue>this point ought to be made. This country does have problems.

<v Phil Donahue>Please welcome Jesse Woodhull. <v Phil Donahue>You know him as a former judge in the Revolutionary War hero. <v Phil Donahue>[applause] You're <v Phil Donahue>against the Constitution? <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>Yes, sir. <v Phil Donahue>And you would solve our problems, how? <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>Well, as a states, we fought the British at Valley Forge and it seems to me that <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>as states we can solve our economic problems. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>We don't need this dangerous new system of government. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>[applause]. <v Audience Member 2>Ten years ago, we fought the British because they wanted to raise our taxes and <v Audience Member 2>take our liberties away. I may just be a farmer from Albany County, but <v Audience Member 2>it seems to me that with your funny constitution, you want to set up a president <v Audience Member 2>who's going to be just like a king in a faraway country and you're going to make all the <v Audience Member 2>rules. And they go all the rich people even flatter and make all us even poorer. <v Phil Donahue>Give the man a chance. You recognize Mr. Roosevelt, sir? <v Phil Donahue>We recognize Isaac Roosevelt.

<v Phil Donahue>You are president of, if you just give me a moment, you are president of the Bank of New <v Phil Donahue>York, you are a businessman, and I'm sure you're proud to be so. <v Phil Donahue>This gentleman who who farms for a living claims that, among other things, this <v Phil Donahue>this document will make you and your friends even richer. <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>I would like to ask my friend, the farmer from Albany County. <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>Why is it that you don't have any hard cash? <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>I will tell you why you don't have any hard cash. <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>Because our country has no credit. <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>Why is that? <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>I will tell you why our country has no credit. <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>Because these free 13 great states <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>who are confederated but separated cannot get it together to pay even the <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>interest on our foreign debt, which the Continental Congress asked for. <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>I mean, we are a rich country, but we're flat broke. <v Audience Member 3>This is how I feel your state government, which you guys from the from the sticks <v Audience Member 3>are so very fond of, really has been getting a free ride.

<v Audience Member 3>Because no, [audience jeers] it gets it gets it gets most of its money, it gets almost <v Audience Member 3>all of its money from customs duties that they take on things that we import. <v Audience Member 3>In the city we pay through the nose, we get nothing back. <v Audience Member 3>That you ya-please, you yak a lot about freedom and liberty, <v Audience Member 3>but all you really want to do is not pay your land taxes. <v Audience Member 3>That seems to me that if we had one strong, unified <v Audience Member 3>government and not 13 weak ones, then we can call ourselves a country <v Audience Member 3>and we can get our people working again. <v Phil Donahue>Before we start choosing upsides here, this point should be made. <v Phil Donahue>Some of our states have their own Bill of Rights. <v Phil Donahue>Why shouldn't our national constitution? <v Phil Donahue>What- what is so wrong with that? <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>You know, I exactly. I couldn't agree with you more here. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>You'll find that the distinguished gentleman sitting beside me. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>He's real willing to talk about trade with Jamaica. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>He's willing to talk about the problems with pirates off the coast of Libya. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>He's but he's he's very quiet about our fundamental rights, which are mysteriously

<v Jesse Woodhull Actor>missing from this constitution. That's the primary purpose of our government to protect <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>and defend our civil rights. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>You tear up the declaration. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>[applause] You tear up the Declaration of Independence. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>Come on now, it's not tearing up the Declaration of Independence, it's describing a <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>system of government. <v Phil Donahue>Mr. Livingston, is what's so bad about <v Phil Donahue>codifying these personal liberties. <v Phil Donahue>What is so why are you so hostile to the notion of saying freedom of speech <v Phil Donahue>is protected, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, freedom of religion? <v Phil Donahue>Why not? You could make a lot of these people less nervous if you would consent <v Phil Donahue>to a Bill of Rights as part of this proposed constitution. <v Phil Donahue>What's wrong with it? <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>Look, Phil, you can't list in this constitution every freedom that we enjoy. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>Look, it doesn't specifically say that I am allowed to shave in the morning, but neither

<v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>does it say that I can't. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>It's really quite simple, my dear sir. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>You don't have to write all our liberties down because the Constitution is <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>not taking them away. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>We're not talking about your bathroom routine. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>We're talking about centralizing government. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>Now you will write in black and white a bill that protects those basic civil liberties <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>that we fought and died for. My dear sir, <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>or I'll tell you, I'm not going to ratify the document. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>[applause]. <v Phil Donahue>Just one second. <v Phil Donahue>Give us give us just a moment, gentlemen. <v Phil Donahue>Are you afraid of this proposed constitution? <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>No, Phil, I'm not afraid, afraid. I fought in the revolution. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>I'm realistic. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>I'm realistic. That's all. And when this debate is over, we're all going to go home and <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>the men in this city will get down to work. Now while we sleep, the politicians are gonna <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>be voting away our freedom. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>No, this is absurd. [applause] No, no, no.

<v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>No, it's men like Judge Woodhull here that you are going to be sending to the federal <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>Congress. Is there some magic transformation that's going to come over him and turn him <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>into a monster? If you're so worried about your freedoms, you'd better start worrying <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>about a government so weak and ineffective that it can't defend them. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>The states are low enough it <v Audience Member 4>It's this piece of paper that's monstrous, sir. <v Audience Member 4>I'm telling you, we, the farmers of this state, are for freedom. <v Audience Member 4>And we're gonna tear up this constitution. [applause] <v Phil Donahue>Gentlemen, we're in we're in New York City discussing the constitution <v Phil Donahue>at, sir? <v Narrator>The following is a paid political announcement. <v Speaker>Long live the King of France. Bow down to the King of England. <v Speaker>Pay tribute to the emperor of Rome. <v Speaker>And now, citizen, it is your turn make way

<v Speaker>for the king of America. <v Speaker>There is a group of people in this country plotting to steal your liberty. <v Speaker>They want to rule over America from their so-called capital city. <v Speaker>The president will have his castle and the Congress will be his court. <v Speaker>When they take power, it will be forever. <v Speaker>You can make sure this town will never be built. <v Speaker>Tear down its walls of marble and steel. <v Speaker>Support your local candidate against the ratification of the Constitution <v Speaker>and for a free Confederated America. <v Narrator>Paid for by the Committee for the Articles of Confederation. <v Narrator>Six weeks later, June 18th, 1788, eight states <v Narrator>have ratified the Constitution, but three key states New York, New Hampshire and <v Narrator>Virginia are just beginning the ratification process in all

<v Narrator>three states the Constitution faces strong opposition. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Good evening. Tomorrow, history will be made in the town of Poughkeepsie. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>75 miles up the Hudson from New York City as the ratifying <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>convention begins in an ideal setting for what promises <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>to be a climactic debate. And here's why. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>In an exclusive CTM poll of the New York delegates, we establish that only <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>19 unconditionally support the Constitution, whereas over 40 are <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>against the document as written. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Our two guests today should be well-known to viewers who have been following <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>the debate over the past few months. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>New York lawyer Alexander Hamilton helped frame the constitution at the Philadelphia <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>convention. And I think it's not open secret that he, in fact, is one of the <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>so-called anonymous authors of the Federalist Papers, which some have called brilliant.

<v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Others, like our second guest, have attacked as deceptive propaganda. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>The honorable Melancton Smith, a delegate from than former sheriff <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>of Dutchess County, is a lawyer, merchant and owner of some of the best farm land in <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Queens. Welcome to Firing Line, Mr. Smith, your party seems to have a majority. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>This isn't going to be the rubber stamp approval of the constitution that we have seen in <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>other states. So let me ask you to comment, Mr. Smith, what happened <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>in New York? <v Melancton Smith Actor>It's simple. We're winning. <v Melancton Smith Actor>In this upcoming convention, the Friends of the Rights of Mankind outnumber the advocates <v Melancton Smith Actor>of tyranny over 2 to 1. <v Melancton Smith Actor>There was probably no time since the revolution when the rich and powerful have so little <v Melancton Smith Actor>say in the running of this country. <v Melancton Smith Actor>It's a victory for the little. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>It is a victory for ambition and avarice of petty politicians who put their <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>own personal interests above any national concern. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Gentleman, I think I can save you and the public a lot of time if we just cut down on the <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>name calling. Everybody knows you dislike each other intensely.

<v William F. Buckley, Jr.>But what we're out to decide isn't which of you should be more popular, but whether we <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>should ratify the Constitution. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>So might we stick to the issues? <v Melancton Smith Actor>For me, as a believer in popular government, it all comes down to those who in government <v Melancton Smith Actor>is going to represent the great mass of the people who's going to stand up for the <v Melancton Smith Actor>interests of the ordinary person. <v Melancton Smith Actor>Under Mr. Hamilton's constitution, only six or eight delegates from New York State will <v Melancton Smith Actor>be sent to the so-called House of Representatives. <v Melancton Smith Actor>He's going to be the rich and the famous and the well-connected. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>So utterly simplistic, not rich, but educated and capable. <v Melancton Smith Actor>Look, the entire House of Representatives is going to have only 65 members. <v Melancton Smith Actor>It's tiny. Be honest, Hamilton. <v Melancton Smith Actor>You know darn well who's going to get elected. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>To be honest, Hamilton. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>I will be. <v Melancton Smith Actor>You're going to get the highly educated and articulate people, but no one with any <v Melancton Smith Actor>feeling for the ordinary person. And that's what you seem to forgotten. <v Melancton Smith Actor>Government is for the ordinary person. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Do you object to popular government, Mr. Hamilton? <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Only in the sense that in the past record we have had shoemakers and carpenters running <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>governments of the states, or what might be more appropriately termed petty

<v Alexander Hamilton Actor>republics, for the last 10 years. And everyone has lost respect <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>and confidence in government. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>We need an aristocracy, indeed. But it is an aristocracy of intelligence and experience. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Why, Mr. Smith's reasoning such as it is, just it escapes me. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>I mean, we are, after all, living in the 18th century. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>We cannot continue or afford to continue running a country on the scale <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>of a town meeting. <v Melancton Smith Actor>What system would you prefer? <v Melancton Smith Actor>The slave colony in the West Indies where you grew up. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>That's pretty ad hominem. <v Melancton Smith Actor>You'd be pretty comfortable living under a monarchy. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Look at Mrs. Smith. I don't have to prove my loyalty to you or to anyone else. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Okay, are you or are you not against popular government? <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>I have sincerely been trying to understand why the Constitution has had such trouble <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>here in New York. It is, after all, a practical plan which allows popular government a <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>chance to work in the real world. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Mr. Smith and his colleagues seem to be trapped in a kind of mindset of the 60s <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>and 70s at the time when the Articles of Confederation were adopted. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>A fundamental and I think altogether too idealistic flaw was the supposition that one,

<v Alexander Hamilton Actor>states would get along together and two, they would all voluntarily listen <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>to the continental Congress, neither of which has happened. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>In fact, we have tried this for ten years and it does not work. <v Melancton Smith Actor>It works at protecting our liberties. <v Melancton Smith Actor>It works at allowing the little person to be a part of-. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>It is precisely these little people, as you refer to them, who would benefit most from a <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>stable government. I think there is a world of difference between-be-between <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>a representative government that acts in the people's interest and the people themselves <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>running a government. <v Melancton Smith Actor>Hold it Hamilton. I'm not a- <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>You claim power to the people, but if the people really had power, then we would have mob <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>rule and no one would be free. In fact, our very property as it is now would be in <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>danger. And this is precisely what has been happening in the state legislatures for the <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>last 10 years. It's also the cause for so much instability in <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>the business community. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>And we don't like it? <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>No, we don't. <v Melancton Smith Actor>You don't trust popular government, do you? <v Melancton Smith Actor>Representatives who have to be really in touch with the feelings of their constituents, <v Melancton Smith Actor>because they can be recalled.

<v Alexander Hamilton Actor>And what is the result? <v Melancton Smith Actor>They get called up for reelection every single year. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>What is the result of that system? A kind of idiocy in action. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Representatives will vote for a law one week and then the following week reverse it. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>And just when these gentlemen begin to understand the workings of government, they are <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>sent back to their cows and the next bunch comes in. <v Melancton Smith Actor>Why not do away with elections completely? <v Melancton Smith Actor>Replace the power of the states with a nice permanent monarchy, Hamilton. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Sounds interesting, doesn't it? <v Melancton Smith Actor>I'm told that in France, Louis, the 16th has made the stagecoaches run on time. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Because I believe in the rights of free men as passionately as anyone in America. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Look we-we've only got a few minutes and we definitely don't have time for <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>an exegesis of your entire case in favor of the Constitution. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Why don't you pick up on the point that inflames the opposition so <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>much? What is left if you go through with your constitution of states rights? <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>I think that's the one thing we don't have to worry about as Mr. Smith has amply <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>demonstrated people are very loyal to their local governments. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>The federal government is not an intrusion on the affairs of individual states. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>In fact, it is far away from local concerns.

<v Melancton Smith Actor>England was far away from local concerns yet it tried to impose its ideas. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>Come on Smith, the revolution is over. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>The federal government is not some kind of foreign power nor are states rights sacred. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>I might ask you, where does government get its authority to begin with? <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>From the peopl, if you remember, we the people have the unalienable right <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>to propose any form of government we choose. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>We can indeed take some of the power entrusted to the state government and give it to a <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>central one. In that case, the states do not have the ultimate power, nor does the <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>federal government, but the people decide, which is why we have gone back to the people <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>in these conventions, why we are having this debate. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>A debate which unhappily is over, uh we must leave with two <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>apparently incompatible positions, which, however, will be ventilated at some length <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>of the ratifying convention. We'll be there with live coverage of these events. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>Meanwhile, I thank you, Mr. Melancton Smith. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>I thank you Sir Alexander Hamilton, ladies and gentlemen. <v William F. Buckley, Jr.>[music] <v Narrator>Two weeks later, July 2nd, 1788, New Hampshire has

<v Narrator>just ratified the Constitution. <v Narrator>Nine of the 13 states have now ratified. <v Narrator>July 2nd, 1788 CTN's Convention Special. <v Walter Cronkite>Welcome to CTN's continuing live reports from the New York Constitutional <v Walter Cronkite>Convention. This passionate debate has now entered its third week with <v Walter Cronkite>ratification by New Hampshire announced here last Tuesday. <v Walter Cronkite>The Constitution has its required two thirds majority of the states, but the two <v Walter Cronkite>most influential and populous states, New York and Virginia, are still <v Walter Cronkite>debating ratification. And unanimous adoption of the constitution <v Walter Cronkite>is still far from certain. <v Walter Cronkite>Our reporter, Charlayne Hunter-Gault. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>What a debate it's been. Sometimes noisy, often heated, but the greatest political <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>minds of the state fighting for what they believe. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>Today, the delegates are discussing whether the constitution should be ratified as is <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>and amended later, as the Federalists claim, or whether New York State can make

<v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>its list of amendments, including a bill of rights, a condition for ratification. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>Speaking for the Constitution is John Jay. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>Let's go to the floor. <v John Jay Actor>We're going to attach amendments to it. <v John Jay Actor>But then it becomes an entirely new document and we'll have to go back to the <v John Jay Actor>13 states proposal. What I'm saying what I'm saying is <v John Jay Actor>if you don't approve it exactly as it stands and nobody thinks it's perfect-. <v Speaker>Hamilton told us it was written by God. [laughter] <v John Jay Actor>Even <v John Jay Actor>if you don't approve of it, once it has passed, it'll be easy to amend with three <v John Jay Actor>quarters of the state's that starting the whole process over again, <v John Jay Actor>where you'll have to go back to all 13 states. [loud arguing] <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>This document as much the result of compromise as <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>constructive reasoning and debate, is the best that everyone

<v Alexander Hamilton Actor>in Philadelphia could unite and agree upon. [loud arguing] Do you seriously <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>propose that another convention could come up with anything better? <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>[loud arguing] Positions on both sides <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>of the line have hardened. I very much doubt whether we could agree on anything if we <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>were forced to start from scratch. You are In effect, deliberately <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>sabotaging national unity by marking ratification off the constitution <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>with these prior amendments. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>In the meantime, in the meantime, our country's problems <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>are accumulating with compound interest. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>I ask you, I ask you gentlemen to simply have enough trust in your fellow Americans <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>to try something new. <v Melancton Smith Actor>Give us all the power now with no guarantees and then trust us to give <v Melancton Smith Actor>some of it back. [applause] Have <v Melancton Smith Actor>you ever, in the history of humanity, heard of a government voluntarily giving back

<v Melancton Smith Actor>power once it's gone? First the <v Melancton Smith Actor>amendments, then the Constitution. <v Robert R. Livingtston Actor>Shred the constitution. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>You advocate change without first giving it a chance to work and you base <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>these changes on the merriest guess of what might happen. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>[loud arguing] I say to you that time <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>and experience will bring the constitution to perfection. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>First, see what works and what doesn't, then make your changes. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>[loud arguing]. This government is not only a government for us, but for our children's <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>children. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>For times in situations that none of us can even imagine. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>But its great promise and strength of purpose

<v Alexander Hamilton Actor>will all come to nothing unless each and every state <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>unanimously agrees to form a government that will work. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>Mr. Chairman. In fact, it will be extremely difficult to amend this Constitution, two <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>thirds of Congress or three fourths of the states are required to make amendments. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>Do you think is going to be easy to-to accomplish that? <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>I mean, look how long it's taking us to get to get this group-. <v John Lansing Jr. Actor>[cheering] <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>I can't see what's happening from here, Fred? <v Fred Graham>Charlayne, Charlayne, Charlayne. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>Can you hear me? <v Fred Graham>Charlayne, Charlayne. We've just received news that has thrown this convention into an

<v Fred Graham>uproar. Virginia has ratified the Constitution, it has ratified <v Fred Graham>the Constitution unconditionally. <v Fred Graham>Mr. Roosevelt is this gonn stampede this convention? <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>The only question now is, does New York want to be part of a United States <v Isaac Roosevelt Actor>or doesn't it? <v Fred Graham>Uh, Mr. Woodhull, sir, does this end the debates? <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>Listen, we saw this was coming. Uh, Fred, it doesn't affect a thing in this state at <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>least the majority is backing us. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>And we will not be pressured into accepting the document until the rights of our citizens <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>are secured. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>The country needs us. We certainly, we need the country and <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>and and it'll work out. I promise you, it will they'll get the constitution. <v Jesse Woodhull Actor>We will get our Bill of Rights. <v Fred Graham>So the state of Virginia in population the largest and in political influence <v Fred Graham>and power on a par with New York has ratified the Constitution. <v Fred Graham>It now becomes the tenth state to do so. <v Fred Graham>And only New York, North Carolina and tiny Rhode Island, are the holdouts. <v Fred Graham>So now the overwhelming majority of the population supports the constitution.

<v Fred Graham>And it's a whole new ballgame in Poughkeepsie. <v Fred Graham>Fred Graham, CTN, at the ratifying convention. <v Narrator>It was the 70s. We were young, we were idealistic and a country <v Narrator>was about to be born, ballads of revolution, <v Narrator>sing them to your children, relive the battles and the glory in words <v Narrator>and music. Ballads of Revolution. <v Narrator>Golden Oldies from an America at War. <v Narrator>Don't miss this special offer, these wonderful ballads and more <v Narrator>beautifully printed and beautifully presented for your home as <v Narrator>a gift. Songs to be treasured for a lifetime. <v Narrator>To order this wonderful collection of sheet music across the toll-free Bridge to <v Narrator>Greenleaf Publishing 1 800 Market Street Toll Free. <v Narrator>1 800 Market Street. <v Narrator>Jersey, New York and Connecticut money accepted at par. <v Narrator>Four weeks later.

<v Narrator>July 28, 1788. <v Narrator>The New York convention is over. <v Walter Cronkite>July 17, 88. <v Walter Cronkite>It's a month that New York State's not likely to forget for a long time. <v Walter Cronkite>Parades, riots and that extraordinary about face on the part of key delegates <v Walter Cronkite>at the Poughkeepsie convention. <v Walter Cronkite>Now that things finally have calmed down. <v Walter Cronkite>Let's stand back from the events and try to understand what's happened in this, the <v Walter Cronkite>month that shook New York. [music] <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>July 4th, 1788. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>Black Friday in Albany. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>This was the scene as pro and anti-constitution supporters rioted on Green <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>Street. It started with an anti-demonstration in which a group of people <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>publicly burned a copy of the Constitution to express in no uncertain <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>terms their displeasure with the document. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>The Federalists were furious and quickly organized a counter demonstration.

<v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>The ensuing clash between the two gangs raged for several hours, leaving <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>18 wounded and one dead. <v Walter Cronkite>But as passion's were heating up in the street, they were cooling down on the floor of <v Walter Cronkite>the Poughkeepsie Constitutional Convention. <v Walter Cronkite>With the news of the victory in Virginia, the federalist oratory stopped abruptly. <v Walter Cronkite>They knew they were badly outnumbered and had just been stalling until the results from <v Walter Cronkite>New Hampshire and Virginia came in. <v Walter Cronkite>They figured that the New York convention would then have no choice but to ratify. <v Walter Cronkite>It wasn't as they found out, all that simple. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>From July 2nd until July 10th, while the Federalists remained uncharacteristically <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>quiet, the majority debated the list of amendments, including a Bill of rights <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>that they were going to attach to the Constitution. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>Conditional ratification seems certain but the Federalists were in no mood <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>for compromise. <v John Jay Actor>The other states have accepted the Constitution unconditionally. <v John Jay Actor>Soon we are going to find ourselves aliens among

<v John Jay Actor>our father's children. <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>May I remind those opposing ratification that the city of New York <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>is the source of most revenue for this state? <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>If New York does not ratify there are people in the city ready to take up <v Alexander Hamilton Actor>arms and separate. <v George Clinton Actor>These are treasonist words Mr. Hamilton, we are trying to keep order in this state. <v George Clinton Actor>Let's not talk about breaking it up. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>The unstated theme of this debate, a north south split <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>in the state had come out in the open. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>The people of New York City, home of the Continental Congress and a major center <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>of trade were largely for the Constitution. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>The small farmers to the north of the city, worried about land taxes and a loss of <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>autonomy, were fiercely against it. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>Pressure from the city was particularly felt by anti-federalist delegates like <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>Melancton Smith and Samuel Jones, who have major business dealings <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>here in Manhattan.

<v Melancton Smith Actor>I move that the Constitution be ratified upon condition that <v Melancton Smith Actor>a bill of rights be attached to it. <v Speaker>And I second that motion [applause]. <v Charlayne Hunter-Gault>And then two days later. <v Fred Graham>Mr. Smith, just two days ago, you'd support ratification only with a Bill of Rights. <v Fred Graham>What happened today? <v Melancton Smith Actor>Today, Fred, we reluctantly decided to drop the conditional ratification. <v Melancton Smith Actor>We are still discussing the right to withdraw from the union if our amendments <v Melancton Smith Actor>are not considered by Congress within a reasonable length of time. <v Melancton Smith Actor>Thank you, sir. <v Walter Cronkite>An incredible about-face. <v Walter Cronkite>Smith, once the spokesman for the entire anti-group, is softening his position. <v Walter Cronkite>His move through the party into total disarray. <v Walter Cronkite>There was talk of a German. Governor Clinton privately expressed great displeasure at <v Walter Cronkite>this breaking ranks within his group, a group that up to now had voted as <v Walter Cronkite>a block. And then in the middle of everything, the parade in New York City. <v Walter Cronkite>This is how we reported it last Wednesday.

<v Walter Cronkite>[cheering] [marching band] <v Forrest Sawyer>On the streets of New York, a huge parade complete with colorful floats and marching <v Forrest Sawyer>bands and all with a very serious political purpose. <v Forrest Sawyer>The pretext for this parade was to celebrate the ratification of the Constitution by <v Forrest Sawyer>10 of our states. Its real message, New York had better be the 11th. <v Speaker>Mr. Melancton Smith, Mr. Samuel Jones. <v Speaker>The people are watching you. <v Speaker>We want jobs. <v Speaker>You want to do business in this town, you better start acting <v Speaker>in our interests. <v Forrest Sawyer>For many, this is the climax of the parade. <v Forrest Sawyer>It's been given various names, the federal ship, the Constitution, but finally, everyone <v Forrest Sawyer>agreed to name it the Hamilton. After the Constitution's strongest supporter who is still <v Forrest Sawyer>doing battle in Poughkeepsie.

<v Forrest Sawyer>As the ship is cheered on by the spectators, it salutes them back. <v Walter Cronkite>The day had its ugly side. <v Walter Cronkite>The office of the anti-federalist paper, The New York Journal, was looted, its presses <v Walter Cronkite>smashed. No one supporters of the Anti-Federalist cause were careful to stay <v Walter Cronkite>out of sight, far away from the main events. <v Walter Cronkite>At the convention in Poughkeepsie, opposition to the constitution continued to crumble. <v Walter Cronkite>John, how did Hamilton and his party, pull this off? <v John Chancellor>Well, Walter Hamilton, whose lofty speeches left them unmoved, nevertheless <v John Chancellor>succeeded in planting the seeds of doubt. <v John Chancellor>He scared them. Anti-Federalists, particularly men like Langston Smith and Samuel <v John Chancellor>Jones, were torn in two. On the one hand, they felt an almost messianic zeal <v John Chancellor>to get those amendments attached to the Constitution, but they couldn't risk even the <v John Chancellor>remote possibility that New York would be rejected from the union. <v John Chancellor>If this happened, their supporters would turn against them with a fury and their party <v John Chancellor>would be dispersed. As Jones put it, like sheep on a mountain.

<v Walter Cronkite>So at the very last moment, despite their enormous majority, the opposition <v Walter Cronkite>does seem to have lost their nerve and even men like Jesse Woodhull voted for <v Walter Cronkite>ratification. [cheering] <v John Chancellor>Interestingly enough, it was the Federalist John Jay, that great healer who came up with <v John Chancellor>the face saver, a letter to be attached to New York's ratification urging <v John Chancellor>the states to start a country wide movement for a bill of rights as soon as <v John Chancellor>possible. The letter began, "It was only New York's invincible reluctance <v John Chancellor>to separate from her sister states that convinced a sufficient number of delegates <v John Chancellor>to vote for ratification." Smith put it less diplomatically. <v Melancton Smith Actor>It's a change in tactics. <v Melancton Smith Actor>We still believe that as a basis for government the constitution is radically defective. <v Melancton Smith Actor>We still believe in the amendments, including a statement of rights but

<v Melancton Smith Actor>to best argue our views, New York just had to be a full fledged member of this new <v Melancton Smith Actor>government right from the beginning. <v Melancton Smith Actor>I'm now sure that a Bill of Rights will be strongly supported by a majority of the <v Melancton Smith Actor>states. <v Walter Cronkite>In a way, everyone seems to feel they've won. <v Walter Cronkite>New York State has ratified the Constitution, ratified it unconditionally, <v Walter Cronkite>but the voice of the majority has come through loud and clear. <v John Chancellor>Robert Yates, who was opposed to the Constitution right from the beginning, summed up <v John Chancellor>everyone's feelings at the conclusion of the debates. <v Robert Yates Actor>I was against it. I did everything in my power to fight it. <v Robert Yates Actor>Well, we lost. <v Robert Yates Actor>It's been ratified for all the land. <v Robert Yates Actor>Now the time has come for us to set aside our differences. <v Robert Yates Actor>It's my duty, it's a duty of every American to defend and protect <v Robert Yates Actor>our Constitution.

<v Mario Cuomo>It was a squeaker. Twenty seven against and only 30 supporting ratification <v Mario Cuomo>as a state, we accepted the Constitution, but we did so with strong reservations, <v Mario Cuomo>reservations which became the basis of the Bill of Rights. <v Mario Cuomo>Our history has proven that both sides were right, and out of their arguments came the <v Mario Cuomo>solid foundations for a new country, a country of a size and power <v Mario Cuomo>that no one man could have possibly envisioned. <v Mario Cuomo>A recent biographer of Hamilton put it this way, "In 1788, France <v Mario Cuomo>was ruled by a king, China by an emperor, Russia by a czar <v Mario Cuomo>and Japan by a Shogun. <v Mario Cuomo>All of those proud regimes and scores of others have passed into history. <v Mario Cuomo>In the entire world, one of the few governments that has remained at its basis <v Mario Cuomo>unchanged is the federal union put together by New York and the other <v Mario Cuomo>states 200 years ago."

<v Walter Cronkite>Our ancestors, all of them thought passionately for their different viewpoints. <v Walter Cronkite>But they were men united in a belief that government by the people means government <v Walter Cronkite>by compromise. We have survived as a nation precisely because <v Walter Cronkite>we continue to tolerate the views of the minority in our government by <v Walter Cronkite>the majority. This is our legacy from the past and 200 years <v Walter Cronkite>later, this is what we celebrate today because that's <v Walter Cronkite>the way it was. July 27, 1788. <v Walter Cronkite>I'm Walter Cronkite. Goodnight. <v Walter Cronkite>[music]