The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer : WETA : October 5, 2009 7:00pm-8:00pm EDT; The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer

Captioning snsored by MacNL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS

>> Lehrer: GOOEVENING. I'M JIMEHRER. ON THE NEWSHOUR THIS MONDA THE AD STORY: MORE U.S. SOLDIER DIE IN AFGHANISTAN. WE DEBATE THE AMERAN MILITARY MIION. THEN, AFT THE OTHER NEWS OF THE DAY,NCLUDING AN INDONESIA EATHQUAKE UPDATE, GWEN IFILL TALKS TO MARCIA YLE ABOUT WHAT LI AHEAD IN THE SUPREME COURT TERM THAT BEGAN TODAY;UDY WOODRUFF NS A DEBATE BETWEEN TWO DOCTORS ON HEALTH CARE REFORM; ANDEFFREY BROWN PROFILES LEGDARY SPORTS BROADCASTER VINCENT SCULL YOU. >>OW I KNOW I LOVE IT? BECAUSE WHEN THERE'S A GREAT PLAY ON THE FIELDAND THE CROWD ROARS I STILL GETOOSE BUMPS. MAJOR FUNDI FOR THE NEWSHOUR WITH JIM LEHRER IS PRIDED BY:

>> TINY LITTLE THING, IT JUST... NOT BG. AH.. OKY, I FOUND IT. ( CHES AND APPLAUSE ) OKAY.

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>> Lehrer: THE U.S. TO IN AFGHANISTAN CLIMD TODAY AFTER A WEEKEND OFEAVY CASUALTIES. THERE S ACTION ON THE WAR'S POLITICAL FRONT IN SHINGTON AS WELL NEWOUR CORRESPONDENT KWAME HOLMAN GINS OUR LEAD STORY REPORT. >>Reporter: U.S. FORCES IN FGHANISTAN BEGAN THE MONTH WITH THEIR WORST LOSSES IN MORE TH A YEAR. JUST FIVE DAYS INTO OCTOBER LEAST 16 ARICANS HAVE BEEN KILLED. EIGHT OF THOSE FATALITIES CE ON SATURDAY WHEN HUNDREDS OF TALAN INSURGENTS ATTACKED A PAIRF REMOTE BASES IN A PROVINCE NEAR T PAKISTANI BORDER. THE FIGHTING IN THUGGED LANCAPE LASTED MUCH OF THE DAY,ND U.S. OFFICIALS SAID SIGNICANT NUMBER OF INSURGENTS RE KILLED. VARIOUS ACCOUNTS SAID AMERICAN TROOPSERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN WITHDRAWN OM SH SPARSELY POPULATED AREAS. THE PORTS SAID THE PULLOUT HABEEN DELAYED BY A SORTAGE OF HELIPTERS, MILITARY RED TAPE, AND AFGHAN POLITICS. THE ATTACKS ADDED N AVITY TORESIDENT OBAMA'S STREGY REVIEW ON THE AFGHAN WAR. BU TOP KMACHBDER... E TOP COANDER IN AFGHANIAN PORTEDLY HAS ASKED FOR UP 40,000 MORTROOPS. ADMINISTRATION OFICIALS ARE CONSIDERING OTHER OPONS. BUT LAST THURSDAY LONDON, THE GENERAL WAED ANY PLAN THAT DOE NOT STABILIZE AFGHANISTAN PROBAY ISHORT GHTED.

>> THE SITUATI IS SERIOUS. I CHOOSE THATORD VERY, VERY CAREFULLY. I ALSO S THAT NEIER SUCSS OR FAILURE OR OU ENDEAVOR THEREN SUPPORT OF HE AFGHAN PEOPLEAND THE GOVEMENT CABE TAKEN FOR GRANTED. MY ASSESSMENT, MY BEST MILITARY JUDGMENTS I TER IT IS THAT THE STUATION IS IN SOME WAYS DETIORATING. Reporter: THAT SPEECH MAY HAVEAISED NEW TENSIONS ETWEEN THE COMMDER AND HIS CIVILIAN BOSSES AT THWHITE HOUSE AND THE PENAGON. ON FRIDAY, GENERAL McCHRYSTAL HAD A PRIVAT MEETING WITH PRESIDENT OMA ABOAR AIR FORCE ONE WHILE THE PRESIDENT WAS VITING COPENHAGEN, DENRK. THEHITE HOUSE RLEASED THIS MAGE OF THE TWO MEN APARENTLY ABSORBED IN CONVEATION. OFFICIALS DID NOT CHACTERIZE THE EXCHANGE. BUT ON SUNDAY,THE PRESIDENT'S NATIONAL SECURITY ADVIS SAID HE DOESOT BELIEVE AFGHANIAN IS IN IMMINENT DANGER OF FALLING TO THE TALIBAN. RETIR MARINE GENERAL JAMES JONES ALSO OFFED AVEILED CRITICISM OF McCHRYSTAL'S PUBLIC REMARKS.

>> IDEALY HITS BETR FOR MIITARY ADVICE TO COME UP THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND. AND I THINK THAT GENERAL McCHRYSTAL AND THE OHERS IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND WILL PRESENT THE PRESENT WITH NOT JUST O OPTION, WHICH DOES IN FACT TE TO HAVE A FUTION, BUT A RANGE OF OPTIONS THAT THE PRESIDE CAN CONDER.

>> porter: TODAYDEFENSE SECRETARY ROBERT TES WAS RE FORCEFUL IN DISCUSSING E INTERNAL DEBATE.

>> IT IS IMPERATIVE THA ALL US TAKINGPART IN THESE DELIBERIONS-- CIVILINS AND MILITARY ALIKE-- PROVI OUR BEST AVICE TO THE PRESIDENT CANDIDLY BUT PRIVATELY. SPEAKG FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF FENSE ONCE THE CMMANDER IN CHIEF MAKES HIS DECISIONS WE WILL SALUTE AND EXECUTETHOSE DECISNS FAITHFULLY AND TO E BEST OF OUR ABILITY. >Reporter: IN THE MNTIME THPRESIDENT WILL HOLD MORE MEETINGS WITH H ADVISO BERE MAKING ANY FINAL DESION ON SENDING MORE TROOPS. HE'LLLSO MEET WITH A BIPARTISAN GROUP OF CONGRESSIONALEADERS TOMORROW.

>> Lehrer: ANTO DIFFERENT VIEWS OF WHAT THE U.S. SHOULDO IN AFGHANISTA RETIRED GENERAL JACK KEA IS FORMER VICE CEF OF STAFF OF THE ARMY D PROMINENT ADVOCATE OF THE SURGE IN IRAQ DUNG THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. AND RETIRED ARMY COLONEL ANEW BACEVICFOUGHT IN THE VIETNAM WAR AND IS NOW A PROFSOR OF INTNATIONAL RELATIONS AT BOSTONNIVERSITY. HIS LATEST BOOK IS HE LIMITS OF POWER: THE END OAMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM." I TALKED WITH THEM SHORT TIME AGO GENT MANYMEN, WELCOME. RST,GENERAL KEANE, DO YOU BELIEVGENERAL McCHRYSTAL S T OF ORDER WHEN HE SPOKEUP PLICLY AS HE DID IN LONDON?

>> NOT FOR AMINUTE. I THINK THIS THING IS SRT OF BLOWN OUTOF PROPORTION A LITTLE BIT TAKE ON THAT IS THAT,OU KNOW, NERAL McCHRYSTAL BACK IN MAH WAS TOLD TO EXECUTE A COUNTERINSURGENCY STRATEGY. HE'S DONEN ASSSMENT AS TO W BEST TO DO THAT. HE CERTAINLY IDTIFIED SOME RESRCES THAT HE'S GOING TO NEED. SO HE'S PUTTNG ALL OF THAT I PLAY,AND I THINK HISPEECH INFORCES THAT COUNTERINSURGEN STRATEGY. DON'T THINK FOR A MINUTE THAT McCHRYSTAL IS TRYINGO LOBBY THOSEWHO ARE PART OF THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS IN WASHINGTON OR CAN INFLUEE THAT DECISION-MAKNG PROCESS. HE'S JUST NOT THAT KIND OF A PERN. FRANKLY, I THINK HE PROBABLY FEELS TEIBLE THAT PEOPLE CONSTRUEDHAT. IT WIL PROBABLY BE A NG TIME BEFORE HE MAKES ANOTHER SPEECH OUIDE THE THEATER, I WOLD IMAGINE. Lehrer: PROSSOR BACEVICH, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABO WHAT GENERAL MCHRYSTAL DID.

>> I HOPE THAT IS THE LAST SPK HE MAKES OUTSIDE THE THEATER FOR A LO TIME. I THINK THAT HIS REMARKS WERE INAPPROIATE AND SHOWED BAD JUDGMNT. I THINK TH THE PUSHBACK WE'VE HEARD FROM NERAL JONES AND FROM SECTARY GATES I QUITE APPROPRIATE. AND TIMELY.

>> Lehrer: WHAT'S WRO? WH IS WRONG WITH WHAT THE GENERAL DID?

>> WELL, I MEAN, WE HAVE A DEBATE THAT HAS BEEN FRAD BY THE McCHRYSTAL STRATEGIC ASSESSMENT THAT SEEMS TO SUGGEST THAT THE OPTIONS AVAIBLE TO THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF ARE EITHER TO D... TO GIVE McCHRYSTAL WHAT H WANTS OR TO DO NOTHING, TO SURRENDER, TO GIVE UP. I THINK THAT THE POINT THAT GENERAL JONES DE IS EXALY CORCT, THAT THE PRESIDENT'S CIVILIAN AND MITARY ADVISORS OWE HIM A RGE OF ALTERTIVES SO THAT THE PRESIDENT CAN CHOOSE NOT SIMPLY RUBBER-STAMP A PROPOSAL BY A THEATER COMMANDER.

>> Lehrer: GENEL KEANE, YOU SEE DIFFERENTLY? YOU THINK WHAS ISSUE HE IS TO RBBER-STAMP GENERALE McCHRYSTAL OR TOONSIDER OTHER OPTIONS AS WE?

>> WELL, I TNK IT'SERY APROPRIATE FOR THE WHITE HOUSE, THEDEPARTMENT OF DENSE TO LOOK AT A WHOLE RANGE OPTIONS. I DON'T HAVENY PROBLEM WITH THE DECISION-MAKI PROCESS AT'S TAKING PLACE IN THE WHITEOUSE. ALLRESIDENTS GO ABOUT TH TH THEIR OWN STYLE ANDHEIR OWN LEVEL OF DELERATION. IT'S CERTNLY APROPRIATE FOR THE WHITEOUSE TO DO THAT. I WOULD IMAGE THEENERALS WHO ARE PART OF THAT PROSS ALSO BELIEVE IT'S APPPRIATE.

>> Lehrer: WHEN SCRETARY GATES SAYS THIS KIND OF THING SHOULD DONE PRIVATELY, YOU DON'T AGREE WI THAT?

>> WELL I ABSOLUTELY AGREE IT SHOULD BE DONE PRIVATLY. I JUST N'T SUBSRIBE TO THE FAT THAT McCHRYSTALWAS OUT THERE, YOU KNOW LOBBYING INFLUENCERS AND TRYINGO INTERFERWITH THAT DECISION- MAKING PROCESS. HE ANSWEED THE QUESTIONS HE BELIEVED FORTIGHTLY. HE'S BEEN TOLDO EXECU A COUNTERINSURGCY STRATEGY. NOW ERE'S A REVIEW OF THAT PREVIOUS DECION. THAT'S ALSO APPROPATE. JUST DON'T BELVE THAT WAS THE INTENT. I'M SURE, YOU KNOW, HE'S NO GOI TO MAKE ANOTHERPEECH AGAIN FOR SOME TIME. >>ehrer: ALL RIGHT. LET'S T TO THE SUBSNCE OF THIS. PROFESSOR BACEVICH WHAT IS YOUR VIEW THE BASIC McCHRYSTAL RECOMMENDATIONND WH HE HAS SAID AT LEAST AND WHAT'S BEEN IN TH REPORT AND, ET CETERA, ABO THE COUNTERINSURGENCY PROPOL? DO YOU PPORT THAT?

>> NOT AT ALL. I THINK I DISAGREE WITH GENERAL KEE IN THAT HE WASN'T... McCHRYSTALAS NOT SENT OUT THERE TO EXECUTE THE COUNTERINSURGENCY STRATEGY. HE WAS SENT OUT THERE TO COUCT ANSSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION. HE HAS PROVIDED HIS RECOMMENDATION. HIS COMMENDATION IS COTERINSURGENCY STRATEGY. I THINK ONE OF THE FAILINGS OF HI ASSESSMENT IS THATIT SEEMS TOTAKE FOR GRANTED THAT HE UNITED STATES POESSES THE WHEREWITHAL AND T WILL UNDERTAKE THIS PROJECT OF ARMED NATION-BUIING WHICH ALMOST NECESSARILY WILLUNFOLD OVER MANY YEARS, WILL CONSUME MANY HUNDREDSOF BILLIS OF LLARS, AND WIL TAKE THE LIVES OFUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN SOLDIERS. I F ONE THINK TH IT IS APPROPRIATE FOUS TO ASK IF WE CAN FORD TO PAY THAT BI. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE SHOULD ASK ARE TRE NOT PLAUSIBLE TERNATIVES?

>> Lehr: AND GERAL KEANE, YOU SUPPORT THE McCHRYSTAL APPRCH, CORRECT? >>ELL, I DO. CERTAINLY A ABLE AFGNISTAN ISIN OUR INTEREST. AND A STABLPAKISTAN IS CERTAINLY A COUNTRY OF EVEN GREATER STRATEGIC NSEQUENCE THAN AFGHANISTAN. BOTH F THEM ARE IN O INTEREST. THINK THEY'RE INEXTRICABLY LINKED TO EACH OTH, AS A MATTER OF FACT. WE HAVE ACCURATELY DESCRID BY McCHRYSTA AND ALSO BY OTHERS WHO ARE PART OF THE ASSESENT TEAM A DETERIORATI SITUATION IN AFANISTAN WHERE THE STATUS QUO IN THE MINDS OF TOSE WHO ASSESSED IT WILL CONTUE T DETERIORATE. AND THE BE WAY TO STOP THAT BLEEDING IS TO PUT IN PLAY A COUNTERINSURGENCY STRATEG WCH IS LARGELY CIVIL BUT PART OF THAT STRAJ GEECLEARLY HATO BE TO GAIN SOME SECURITY THAT'S NOTHERE NOW THAT YOU CAN MAKE THE KIND OF GOVERNANCEPROGRESS AND POLITICAL PROGRESS WEANT TO MAKE AND AO DEAL WITH RECONSTRUCTIO AND ENOMIC ASSISTANCE. ONE OF THE THINGS WE LEARNED IN IRAQ WAS VRY PAINFUL T LEARN ITVER THREE YEARSIS THAT I'S VERY DIFFICULT TO MAKE THAT KIND OF PROGRESS IN THE CIVIL AREA-- POLICAL, GOVERNANCE AND ECONOMIC-- UNLESS YOUE ABLE TO OBTAIN SECURITY. AND THE KOURPT INSURGENCY STRATEGY FIRSTND FOREMOST IS TO OBTAIN A LEVEL OF SECURITY SO WE CAN MAKEHAT OTHER PROGRESS AND TH TURN IT OVER. THIS IS NOTAN OPEN ENDED THING. TURNT OVER TO THE AFGHAN NATIONAL SURITY FORCES WHEN WE CAN GET THEM UP T THE KIND OFUMBERS WE NEED.

>> Lehrer: PROFESR BACEVICH WHAT WOULDE YOU ALRNATIVE TO THAT? INSTD OF COUNTENSURGENCY, AT SHOULD BE DONE?

>> I THINK THE PLACEO BEGIN ANSWERING THAT QSTION IS WITH THIS QUESTION: EXACTLY WHAT ARE OUR INRESTS IN AFGHANISTAN? THERE SEEMS TO BE AN ASSUMPTN AMONG THE COUNTERINSURGEN PROPONENTS THAT AFGHANISN CONSTIS A VITAL NATIONAL SECURI INTEREST OF THE UNITEDTATES AND, THEREFORE, THE PROSPECT OF EENDING SEVERA HUNDRED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND LOSING AL THOSE AMERICAN LIVES OVER A PERIOD OF YEARS MAKESENSE. I WOULD INSIST TH THOUGH WE VE REAL TEREST IN AFGHANISTAN, THEY AR QUITE MITED ANWE CAN ACHIEVE THOSE INTERESTSMORE EFCTIVELY AND MORE EFFICIENTLY BY GOING DOWN ANOTHEROUTE. AND ONEXAMPLE OF AN ALTERNATIVTHAT DESERVES TO BE CAREFULLY EXINED IS TH SO-CALLED COUNTERRRORISM APPRCH. WHICH IMPLIES ESTABLISHNG A COMPREHENSIVE AND SUSTAINED STEM OF SURVEILLANCE ACROSS AFGHANISTAN ANDHEN BASED ON TELLIGENCE THAT TELLS US THAT THERE IAL QDA ACTIVY, THERE IS AL QAEDA PRESENCE, THEN TO ACT IN A SURGICALAY TO EITHER TAKE THAT O OR AT LEAST KEEP AL QAEDA ON THE RUN. I'M NOT SITTING HE TELLING YOU I CAN GRANTEE THAT WILL WORK. I AM SITTING HERE SUGGESTING THAT'S AN ALTERNATIVE THAT DESERVETO BE EXAMINED ALONG WITH THE COUNTERINSURGENCY OPOSAL.

>> Lehre JUST ON THE SURFACE, THAT MEANS MUCH... NOT 40,00 MORE AMERICAN TROOPS,Ñi WHICH WOULD B REQUIRED APPARENTLY FOR THE COUNTERINSUENCY. OU'RE TALKING ABOUT USING FEWER U.S. TROOPSON THE GROUND AND US THEM MORE TO GO FOR A QAEDA TARRING HES AND THAT SORT OF TNG RATHER THAN TO STABILIZE THEROUND.

>> THAT'S CORCT. IN OTR WORDS, THE OBJECTF THE EXERCISE WOULD NO BE NATION-BUILDIN THAT'S WHAT THE COTERINSURGENCY PPONENTS ARE ADVOCATING. THE OBCT OF THE EXEISE WOULD SIMPLY BE T PREVENT AL QAEDA FROM ESTABLISHING THE KIND OF ESENCE THAT IT HAD IN SEPTEMBER 200

>> Leer: THAT COULD BE DONE WITH AUMBER OF TROOPS THAT ARE THERE NOW?

>> I THINK IT COULD BE DONE WITH FAR FEWER TROS. I MEAN I'M NOT TRYING TO UNDERESMATE THE SURVEILLANCE CHALLENGE WHICH WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT AND WOULD CONSUME SUBSTANTIAL RESOURCES. BUT THE COUNTERINSURGENCY PROPONENTS NEED TO SORT COME CLEAN ON THE TOTAL BILL THAT WILL BE RUIRED IF WE IMPLEMENT THE STRATEGY THAT THEY SUORT. >>ehrer: GENERAL KEANE, YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE PROPONENTS. HOW WOULD YOU RESPD TO THAT? FIRSTF ALL TO HIS PROPOS AND WHAT HE SAYS IT WOULD TAKE, COMPARTHAT TO WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO DO WHAT GENERAL McCHRYSTAL AND WHAT YOU SUPPORT.

>> WELL,IRST OF AL, WE'RE ALREADY INITIATING THE COUNTERTEORISM STRATEGY. THAT'S WHAT WE'VEEEN DOING FOR A NUMBE OF YEARS. WE HAVE EVER-INCREANG DETERIORATING SITUATIO IT WAS THE SAME STRATEGY TH WE USEIN IRAQ FO YEARS. IT BLE UP IN OUR FACES. MEAN, THE REALITY IS THERE ARE NO AL QAEDA OPERATG IN AFGHANISTAN TO ANY SIGNIFICANT OPERATIONAL DEGREE. THE ISSUE A THE TALIN. AND THE FCT THAT THE TALIBAN HAE THE MOMENTUM. I DON'TOR THE LIFE OF ME OW HOW YOU CANEFEAT AN INSURGENCY WITH TECHNOLOGY. DRONES AND MISSILES. I DON'T KNOW WRE IT HASVER ORKED IN TH HISTORY OF MANKIND. AND I CERTAINLY DON'T BELIEVE IT WILL WORKN THE MOUNTAINS OF AFGHANISN OR THE TIBAL AREAS OFAKISTAN. CANE MAKE SUCSS AGAINST THE LEADERSHO ARE THE INSURGENT AN THE TERRORISTS USING THIS TECHNOLO? OFOURSE, WE CAN. WE HVE DONE SOME OF TAT. BUT IT DSN'T DEFEAT THEM. ITDOESN'T TAKE THEM OFF TH BATTLE FEEL. IT QUICKLY REPLACED. YOU HAVE TO SEPARE THO RRORISTS AND THOSE INRGENTS FROM THE THINGS AT THEY NEED ST THAT GUARANTEES THEIR STILITY AND THEIR PROGRESSHICH ARE THE PEOPLE. THAT IS WHY WE'RE PRONENTS OF COUNTERINURGENCY STRATEGY THAT KES THOSE PEOPLE A THAT INFRASTRUCTURE AWAY FROM THM. LOOK A I DON'T HAVE A MAJOR INEREST IN NATION-BUILDING IN AFGHANISTAN TONY SIGNICANT DEGREE I THINK WE CAN GET THE CURITY SITUATION SBLE, PUT SOME REAL PRESSURE ON CAR SFWLI TO BE SUR... KARZAI TO BE SURE. WE CERTAINLY NE THAT IN THE BACK OM WITH HIM TO BE QUITE FRANK ABT IT. AND GET THIS THIN TURNED OER TOHE AHAN NATIONAL SECURITY FORCES IN COUPLEOF YEARS MUCH AS WE HAVE DNE IN IRAQ. I DON'T THINKE NEED TO B THERE FOR YRS AND YEARS TO DO THIS.

>> Leer: GENTLEMEN, WE NOW UNDERSTAND BOTH OF YOUR SITIONS. QUICKLY, BEGINNING WITH Y, PROFESR. DO YOU THINK T PRESIDENT NEEDS TO MAKE A DISION, WHATEVER IT IS, QUICKER RATHER THAN... I MEAN DO HAVE TO MOVE QUICKLY ON THI

>> NO. HE NEEDS TOAKE A DECISION IN DUE TIME AFTER HE HAS CONSIDEREDLL OF THE ALTERNATIVES. I MEAN THIS ARGUMENT THAT HE NEEDS TO MAKE THE DECISION TOMORROW BECAUSE GNERAL McCHRYSTAL HAS ISSUED HIS REQUIREMENTS IS PATELY ABSUR FRANKLY, IT SIMPLY SOMEING TO TRY TO DENY THE PRESINT THE RANGE OF ALTERNATIVES THAT OUGHTO BE PRENTED TO HIM.

>> Lehre GENERAL KEANE, DO YOU AGREE THAT TME WON'T HURT THIS DESION?

>> WE, I THINK A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT THE PRESIDENTCERTAINLY SEEMS TO BE TAKINGO MAKE A DIFFICULT DECISN LIKE THIS. A DELIBERATIVE DESION-MAKING PROCESS I THINK IS WAT WE'RE SEEING IN FRO OF US, IT'S FINE. THE NEXTEW WEEKS TOAKE A DECISION ON THIS AND GET L THE ISSUES ON THE TABLEIS PROBABLY A HEALTHY PROCESS. I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBL WITH IT.

>> Lehrer:OKAY. GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU BH VERY CH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Lehrer: OTHER NEWS TODAY, A SUICIDE BOMBER IN PISTAN ATCKED THE U.N. WORLD FOOD PROGRAM'S OFFIE. FIVE PEOPLE WERE KILLED. HE BOMBER, PICKED UP ON A SURVEILLANCE TAPE, WO A MILITARYUNIFORM AND MANAGED TO BYPASS TIGHT SURITY. AFTERWA, THE U.N. TEMPORARILY CLOSED ALL ITS PAKISTAN OFFES. THREE AMECANS HAVE BEEN AWARDED THE 2009 NOL PRIZE IN MEDICIE. THE HONOR TAY WENT TO ELIZABE BLACKBURN OF THE UNIVERSITY OCALIFORNIA, SAN FRANCISCO; ROL GREIDER OF JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITSCHOOL OF MEDICINE; AND JACKZOSTAK OF HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL. TH DISCOVERED A KEY GROWTH ENZYME IN CLS 30 YEARS AGO. IT SET E STAGE FOR POTENTIAL W THERAPIES TO SLOW AGING A BLOCK CANCER. THIS WAS THE FIRST TE TWO WOMEN VE SHARED THE MEDICINE PRIZE IN A SINGLE AR. RESCUE TMS IN INDONESIA CALLED OFF THEEARCH TODAY FOR SVIVORS OF LAST WEEK'S DEVASTATINEARTHQUAKE. OFFICIALS THE ISLAND OF SUMATRA SAID THERE WAS LTLE CHANCE OF FINDING ANYONE SE ALIVE. AT THE SAME TIME, ONE OF THE LAST PEOPLE FOUND ALE LATE LAST WEETOLD OF HER ORDEAL. WE HAVE A REPORT FROM JAMES MATES OF INDENDENT TELEVISION NEWS.

>> Reporter: THIS WAS ONOF THE MIRACLES OF THE SUMATRA EARTHAKE. THIS WOMAN HAD BEEN BURIED FOR 48 HOURSN THE CLASSROOM WHRE SHE HAD BEEN TEACHING. O OF HERSTUDENTS LAY DEAD BESIDE HER. WAHED BY HER HUSBD AND HER ATHER THEY DID FALLY GET HER OUT. TODAY SHE IS SILL IN GREAT IN. HER LEGS BADLY DAMAGED. BUT SHE REMBERS EVERYTHING. THE HOU IN WHICH SHE COULD HEARñTHE RESCUERS BUT WONDERED IF THEY WOULDVER ARRIVE.

>> I FEEL AFRAID.

>> Reporter: WRE YOU SHOING FOR THEM? >>LL THEIME I SHOUT. I CAN'T SHOUT ANYMORE.

>> Reporte DID YOU THINK THAT THEY WOULDN'T ABLE TO GET YOU OUT?

>> (WHISPERING) I HAVE TO LEAVE.

>> Repter: HER COLLEAGUE WAS BURIED WITH HER AND S ALSO PULLED ALIVEFROM THE RUBBLE. E TWO WOMEN HAD KEPT EAC HER BELIEVING. WHAT WERE Y SAYING TO EACH OTHER? >>E HAVE TO SURVIVE. I WANTTO SEE MY SON.

>> Report:HILE WE SPOKE HER MOTHERALLED AND BRIEFLY PUT HER 14 MOH OLD SON O THE LINE. THE SON WHO THROUGHT HER ORDEAL SHE KNEW SHE HADO SEE AGAIN. THEY'VE STOPPE SEARCHING NOW AT HER SCHOO AS THEY'V STOPPED SEARCHING IN MOSOF THE PLACE. IT SEE THAT HERS WILL BE THE LAST STORY OF SURVIVAL COME OUT OF THIS EADFUL TRAGEDY.

>> Leer: OFFICIAL DEATH TOLL IN THE EARTUAKE STOOD AT 609. IT'S EXPECTED TO CLIMB INO THE THOUSDS EVENTUALLY. THE U.S. SERVICE SECTOR GR INEPTEMBER. FOR E FIRST TIME IN MORE THAN A YEAR. THAT WAS WELCOM NEWS ONWALL STREET. E DOW JONES INSTRIAL AVAGE GAINED12 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 9599. THE NASQ ROS 20 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 206 AND STILL TO COME ON TH NEWOUR TONIGHT, A DOCTORS' DEBATE; AND THE VOICE OF T DODGERS. THAT FOLLOWS THE FIRST MONDAIN OCTOBER. GWEN IFILL HAS THE STOR Ifill: HERE NOW FOR AOOK AHEAD THE COMING SUPREME COURTERM IS MARCIA COYLE OF THE "NATIONAL LAW JOURNA." WELCOME BACK,ARCIA.

>> THANKS, EN.

>> Ifi: FIRST DAY BACKN HOOL. FIRSTMONDAY IN OCTOBER, THE COURT IS BACK. WHAT AREHE BIG IUES THEY'RE FACING THIS TERM. >>GWEN, I THINK I WILL BE A VERY INTERESTING TERM. I BELIEV THAT WE WILL LEAR A LOT ABOUT THEOURT'S NEST JUSTICE SONIA SOTOMAYOR. I THINK WE'LL AL LEARN QUITE A BIT OUT WHERE THE ROBERTS' CRT IS HEADED. I FEEL TAT WAY BECAUSE THERE IS ALST A RICH LIST OF CONITUTIONAL ISSUES ON THE COURT'S DOCKET. CONSTITUTIONAL CASES DON'T DOMINATE E DOCKET. IN FACT, IT'S REALLY CASES THATAVE TO DO WITH TERPRETING STATUTES AND REGULATIONS THA HAVE THE GREATEST NUMBER ONHE DOCKET. BUT THE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES, THEY REVEAL THE FAULT LINES AMONG T JUSTICES. THEY'RE ALSO JUST REALLY NTERESTING FACT PATTERNS I THE CASES.

>> Ifill THIS WEEK, FOR INSTANCE, YOU'VE G TWO FIRST AMENDMENT CES RIGHT OFF THE BAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY. TWO VERY DIFFERENT FIRST AMENDMENT CASES. ONENVOLVES SPEECH,ND ONE INVOLVES RELIGION. THE SPEECH CASE....

>> Ifill: GO THING THEY'RE NOT HOTUTTON ISSUES.

>> SOLUTELY. THE RELION CASE, THESE CASES ALWAYS TIE THE COURTS UP IN KNOTS. THE SPEECH CASE IOLVES A FEDER LAW THAT WAS ENACTED IN 1999. IT PROHIBITSHE POSSSION AND DISTRIBUTN OFIMAGES OF ANIMAL CRUELTY. AND THE OBA ADMINISTRATION IS DEFENDING AT. A VIRGIN MAN WAS CHARGED WITH POSSEING AND TRYING TO SELL IMAGES OF ANIMAL CRUTY. REALLY INCLUDED A DOG FIG VIDEO MADE IN JAPAN. AND HE SAYS TT THIS IS OTECTED SPEEC THE OBAMA ADMINTRATION IS ASKING THE COURT TO SAY, NO, THIS IS A CAGORY OF SPEECH THATSN'T PROTECTED BYHE FIRSAMENDMENT. THE RELIGION CASE INLVES THE TYPOF CASE WE'VE SEN TIME AND AGAIAT THE SUPREME COURT. ... A CROSSWAS ERECTEDN THE MOJAVE NATIONA PRESERVE. WAS ERECTED IN 19 BY THE VETERS OF FOREIGN WARS. THE CHALLENGEERE IS THAT IS VIOLATES SEPARION OF CHURCH AND STATE. IT'S A CSS ON PUBLIC LAND. Ifill: 75 YEARSATER THIS FINALLY KES ITS WAY TO THE COURTS.

>> 'S BEEN IN THE COURTS A WHILE BUT ONLY ABOUT TEN YEARS. YORE RIGHT. IT TOOK A LONG TIME. CONGRESS SAWHE PROBLEM AND TRIED TO SOLVE IT BY TRANSFERRING THE ARE OF LAND IN THE PRESERVE THAT THE CRS IS ON TO THE V.F., IN EXHANGE FOR AN ACRE OF LA SOMEERE ELSE. BUT THE COURT SAW TH AS TRYING TO CIRMVENT THE COURT'S DER THAT THE CROSS SHOULDÑiOME DOWN.

>> fill: THERE'S ALSO A GUN LAW CASE. IN FACT, D.C. GUN LAW THAT'S KING ITS WAY TO THE COURT.

>> IT'S NOT.. IT'S A FOLLOW-UP TO THE D.C. GUN CASE. IF YOU RECALL IN 20, THE SUPREME COU IN 5-4 DECISION RULED THAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT GUARANES, PROTECTS, AN INDIVIDUAL'SIGHT TO POSSESS A GUNN THE HOME FOR SELF-DEFENSE. AND IN RING THAT WAY, I STRUCK DOWN A DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA GUN CONTR ORDINANCE. THE DTRICT OFOLUMBIA IS A FEDERAL ENCLAVE. THE ESTION THAT WAS LEFT OPEN IS, DOES E SECOND AMENDME APPLYñ;TO STATE AND LOCAL GUN LAWS? THAT'S THE QUESTION AT THE SUPREME COURT SAID IT WILL DECIDE.

>> Ifill: THE IS THERE E SO A COUPLE OF BUSINESS CASE, PATENTS THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE FEW TENT CASES EVERYBODY CAN GET INTO BECAU IT INVOLVES THE MO BASIC QUESTION OF WHAT CAN YOU GIVE A PATENT TO? WHASORT OF OBJEC OR PROCESS CAN YOUROTECT WITH A PATENT? THIS CASE TWOEN CAME UP WITH A METHOD OFALCULATING THE RISK INVOLVED IN THE BUYING AND SELLING OF ENERGY COMMODITIES. THE COURTSAID THIS S TOO ABRACT. IT HAS TOBE A TANGIBLE TNG. TRANSFORM IT INTO AN OBJE. THE SUPRE COURT IS GOING TO TAKE AOOK AT IT. IT S HUGE RAMIFITIONS FOR OUR INLLECTUAL PROPERTYN THIS COUNTRY WHICH, AS YOU KNO IS IS PRETTY MUCH E ENGINE OF OUR ECONOM THAT'NOT SO MUCH A CONSTITUTIONAL CASE. THERE'S ANOTR REAL INTERESTING... TWO CASE THAT AR COMING TO THE COURT ON THE HEELS OF THEUPREME COURT'S DECISION SEVERAL YEARS AO THAT FOU THAT EXETING JUVENILES VIOLATED T 8th AMENDMENT'S BAN ON CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT. THIS TIME, T CRT IS BEING ASKED WHETHER THATAME PROHIBITIOIN THE 8th AMENDMENT VIOLATED WHEN U SENTENCE JUVILES TO LIFE PRISO WITHOUT PAROLE FOR A NON-CAPITAL CME. THOSE TWO CES-- ONE INVOLVES SOMEO WHO IS 13 WHEN HE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED ANDOBBED AN ELDERLY WOMAN; THE OTHER SE INVOLVED A 17-YEAR-OLD WHO WAS ENGAGED IN ARME ROBBERIES. THRE ARE ABOUT SIX STATES THAT ALLOW LIFE IN PRISON WITHT PAROLE FORUVENILES. Ifill: ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE OUR COURT HRE ON DISPLAY. LET'S LOOK AT TM AND SEE WHAT IT WAS LKE TODAY. WE HAVE A NEW JUSTICE OBVIOUSLY SONIA SOTOMAYOR HERE ON THE RIGHT. THEY HAVE RMORS OF A DARTING JUSTICE. WE HAVE AEW SOLICITOR GENAL WHO IS ALSO COMING TO THE COURTRM.

>> ABSOLUTELY. E FIRST DAY OF THE NEW TERM IS ALWAYS SORT OF EXCING. THERE'S FEELING OF ANTICIPATION, BUT W GOT A LITTLE BIOF A PREVIEW OF THE N COURT WITH JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR. IN SEPTEMBER WHEN THE COURT HEARD ARGUMES IN THE BIG CAMPAIGN FINAE CASE. BUT WHATAPPENS IS WHEN A NEW JUSTICE CES ON AND THAT JUSCE IS NOW THE JUNIOR JUSTICES THE SEATS ON THE COURT,VERYBODY CHANGES EXCEPT THE MOST...THE CHIEF STICE WHO IS RIGHT INHE MIDE ON THE BENCH AND THE MOST SENIOR JUSCE, JOHN PAUL STEVENS, BUT EVERYDY SE RT OF SHIFTS ONE. SHE IS NOW AT THE FAR RIGHT END OF THE BENCH, AS YOU LOOK AT THE BEN. AS YOU MENTIONED SOLICITOR NERAL ELANA KAG. SHE MADE HAIDEN ARGUMENT IN SEPTBER IN THE CPAIGN FINANCE CASE. I BELIEVE SHE'S SCDULED TO ARGUEHE CROSS CASE THI WEEK AS WELL. SHE WILL HAVE AOPPORTUNITY TO REALLY PUT HER STP ON HOW THE GOVNMENT APPROACHES CASES IN THEUPREME COURT.

>> Ifill: JUSTICEJOHN PAUL STEVENS, AARENTLY THE WORD IS THATE HSN'TEEN HIRING ENOUGH CLERKS SO TT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A SIGN O SOMETHG.

>> IT'S ONE THE TEA LEAVES THAT ALL OF US AD. MOST OF HE JUSTICES HIRE CLERKS FOR THE NEXT SUPREME COURTERM. SO THEY'RE A TRM AHD OF THEMSELVES. JUSTICE STEVENS WHO WAS ALWAYS ONE OF THE JUSTICES WHO HIRED EARLIEST, HAS ONLY HIRED ONE CLERK F THE NT TERM. AND TT'S A SIGN TO SOME TH HE MAY THINKING OUT RETING.

>> Ifill:DOES THAT RELY AFFECT THE WORK OF THEOURT WHEN THERE'S THATOTENTIAL OR THAT THERE'S BUZZ IN THE HALL? DO PEOPLE JUST DO THEIR JOBS AND LEAVE IT TO US ON THE OUTSI TO SPECULATE?

>> I THINK IT DOE'T... WELL, I DON'T OW HOW IT AFFECTS THE JTICES. I'SURE... I THINK THEY RESPECT EACH OTHER'S DECISION- MAKING PROCESS. I'M SRE I THEY'RE WONDERING IF HE HN'T REALLY INDICATED TO ANYBODY IF HE'S KEEPG HIS OWN CNSEL, I'M SURE TY'RE WONDERINLIKE THE REST OF US. JUSTICE SVENS WOULD BE, TO LOSE HIM, WOULD HAVE I THK A MAJOR IMPACON THE COURT. EVEN THOUGH HE I ON THE WG OF T COURT THAT DOESN'T OFTEN PREVAIL IN CASES, HE HAS BEESORT OF A MSTER RATEGIST AT WINNING JUSTICE KENNEDY AND PRESERVING ME LERAL VICTORY.

>> Ifill: JUSTICE SOTAYOR'S ASCENSIO DOESN'T REU CHANGE THE BALANCE OF POWER OR IDEOLOGY ON E COURT. IT DOES NOT. SHS VIEWEDS HAVING VIEWS VERYIMILAR TO HER PREDESSOR JUSTICE SOUTER. HOWEVER, WE D'T REALL KNOW. THERE A CERTAINAREAS WHERE SHE M NOT BE JUSTICE SOUTER. I WOULD THINK MAYBE IN CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, GEN HER BACKGROUND AS A FORMER PROSECUTOR AND TRIAL JUDGE, MAYBE IN SOME OF THE BUSINE CASS. SHE WAS A CORRATE LITIGATOR. WE HAVE TO WAIT AN SEE. WE DIDN'TEARN MUCH ABOUT HER DURING HER HEARING ALSO IN RMS OF HOW SHE LOOKS AT THE CONSTITUTIO SO I THINK TH CASES THAT WE JUST TALKEDBOUT WILL GIVUS GREATERNSIGHTS INT HOW SHE VIEWS THE LA

>> Ifill: FAL THOUGHT ON A RELED ISSUE-RETIRED SUPREME COURT JUSTICE SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR GAVE RARKS AT THE COLLEGE OF WILAN AND MARY WN SHE WAS ASKED WHETHER SHE REGRETTED, THAT PPLE WERE DISMANTLING R LEGACY. BUT SHE AGREED. >>ES, SHE DID. THE TRU OF THE MATTER IS SHE WAS REPLACE BY JUSTICE ALITO. HE'S MORECONSERVATIVE THAN SHE WAS. SHE WAS A TRU SWING VOTE ON THE COURT. AND SHE SWUNG IN MORE AREAS THAN JUSTIC KENNEDY DOES TODY. SO THE URT IS MORE COSERVATIVE NOW WITH JUSTIC ALITO A CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTSHAN IT WAS WHEN SH SAT IT. THOSE CAS IN WHICHSHE DID TEND TO LEAN MORE T THE LEFT, TO THEIBERAL WING, THEY AY NOSTAND MUCH LONGER. Ifill: AND YET SHE SAID SHE W HAPPY TO S EVEN THOUGH YOU ASSUME SHE DOESN' AGREE WITHVERYTHING THAT JUICE TOMAYOR AGREED SHE WAS HAP TOSEE ANOTH WMAN ON TH COUR

>> SHE AND JUSTICE GINSBERG HAVE EN VERY OUTSKENIN RECENT YEARS FOR MORE WOMEN, MINORIES AND DIVERSI NOT ONLY IN TERMS OF GENDER BUT ALSO INERMS OF BACKGROUND.

>> Ifill: WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FORWD TO THE MOST?

>> I THINK JUST LENING. LERNING ABOUT THE NEW JUSTI, JUSTICE SOTOMAY ANDALSO SEEING IF SOME OF HE HINTS THAT THE ROBERTS' COURT DROPPED LAST TER ABOUT HOW IT MAY UNDO SOME RECENT PRECEDENTS, WHETHER THAT GOING TO ME TRUE.

>> Ifill: RCIA WE'RE LOOKING FWARD TO HEARING YOUR TAKE ON EVENT AT THE COURT ASALWAYS THIS TERM. THANYOU SO MUCH.

>> MY PASURE, GWEN.

>> Lehr: YOU CAN LISTEN TO TOM GOLDSTEINF SCOTUS BLOG TALK ABOUTHOSE UPCOMING CASES ON OUR WEB SITE, newshour.pbs.og.

>> Lehrer: NOWDOCTORS' VIEWS OHEALTH REFORM. THE PRESIDENINVITED SOME 150 DOCTORS TO THE ROSE GAEN TODAY-- COMPLETE WITH TIR WHI COATS-- AS PART OF HIS PUSH FOR HEALTH RORM. THEY CAME FROM ALL 50 STATE AND OSE IN ATTENDANCE WERE GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE. HERE IS ME OF WHAT HE SAID TO THEM. >>VERY ONE OF YOU HERE TODAY TOOK AN OATH WHEN YOENTERED THE MEDIL PROTECTION... OCEED FEX. IT WASOT AN OATH THAT YOU WOULD SPEND A LOT TIME ON THE PHONE WH INSURANCE COPANIES. IT WAS NOT AN OATH THATYOU WOULD HAVE TO TUR AWAY PAENTS WHO YOU KNOW COULD USE YOUR LP. IT WAS NOT AN OATHTO DEVOTE YOUR LIFE TO BEBEAN COUNTS OR PAPER SHERS. YOU TOOK ANATH SO THAT YOU COULD HE PEOPLE. U DID IT SO OU CULD SAVE LES. E REFORMSWE'RE PROPOSING TO OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WLL HELP YOU LIVE UPO THAT OATH. THEY WILLAKE SURE.... ( APPLAE ) THEY WI MAKE SURE THAT NEITHER SOME GOVERNMENT BUREAUCR OR INSURANCE COMPANY BUREAUCRAT GETS BETWEEN A PATIENT AND THR DOCTOR. ( APPLAE ) THELL OFFER SECURITY TO THSE AMERICANS WHOAVE INSURANCE AND SURANCE TO THOSE WHO DON'T.

>> Lehrer: JY WOODRU TAKES UP THE DISCUSSION FROM TRE.

>> Woodrf: WE GET A SMALL SAMPLING OF DOCTORS' OPINIONS. DR. HERSHEYGARNER IS AN ONCOLOGIST IN NOTHWEST ARKANSAS WHERE TREATS CANC AND HOSPICE PATIENTS. HE'S ALSO A MEMBER OF DOCTORS FOR AMECA, A NONPROT GRPS THAT BACKS THE PRESIDENT. HE MET WITH HIM TOD. AND DR. DONALD IS WITH THE COALITION TO PROTECT PATIENT RIGHTS REPRESENTINGHYSICIANS OPPOSED TO RRENT LEGISLATION, HE'S THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE ARICAN MEDICAL AOCIATION BUT HIS VIEWS DO NOTEFLECT THE POSITION OF THE A.M.A., WHICH IS BRODLY SUPPORTIVE OF REFORM. TH DOCTORS WPPRECIATE YOUR BEING TH US. DR. GARNER I'M GNG TO START WU. WEAW YOU SNDING RIGHT NEXT TO THE ESIDENT I THAT CLIP JUST A MOMENT AGO. TELL US FUNDAMENTALLY WHYOU INK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REFORM HEALTH CARE. >>WELL, IT A SYSTEM TT'S BREN. IT SEEMS TO MORE BROKER BROKEN NOW THAN 20 YEARS AGO WHN I STARTED DOING THI. I HEARD A LOT IN AUGUST ABOUT WHAT A TERRIBLE TNG IT WOULD BE IF WE REFORMED HEALTH CARE AND HOW WE'D BE PUTTING GOVERNMENTETWEEN THE DOCTORS AND THE PATIENTS. THAT HAS NOT BEEN MY EXPERIEN AT ALL. I HAVE PATIENTS THAT CAN'T GET THE CARE THY NEED. THEY CAN'T GETHE STUDIES THEY NEED,ROCEDURES. WHAT I'VE SEEN IS TAT MY MECARE PATIENTS, I CAN GET STUDIES. I CAN SE THEM TO SPECIALISTS AND I CAN GET PROCEDURESDONE. IT'S MY INSURANCEATIENTS THAT I CAN'T GET THNGS DONE. INSTEAD OF THIS MYTHICAL GOVERNMT BUREAUCRAT, I HAVE AN INSURANCE CLERK STANDI BETWEEN ME AND MY PAENT. AND THEN I HEARD SO MUCH MISINFOATION AND FEAR AND ANR IN THE DEBATE IN THE SUMMER THATUST PROMPTED ME GET INVOLVED AND A LEAST TRY TO HAVE A CIVIL DIALOGUE ABOUT WHAT THE CRITICAL ISSUES ARE AND TO T TO HELP PATIENTS.

>> Woodruff: HEING THAT, DOOR, HOW ARE YOU OPPOSED TO HELTH CARE REFORM A THE PRESIDENTND MANY DEMOCRA WANTT?

>> WELL, WE'VE CERTAINLY BELIEVE THERE NEED TOBE CHANGES INCURRENT HEALTH ELIVERY SYSTEM. WE THINK MEDICA CARE HERE IS THEEST IN THE WORLD. BUT WEELIEVE THAT CONGRESS OUGHT TO SW DOWN. THEY'RE DOING THIS TOO FAST. TY OUGHT TO LOOK AT A METHOD THAT PUTS THEATIENT IN CONOL WITH THE PHYSICIAN AS TRUSTED ADVISOR. AS FAR A THE INSURANCE COANIES WE HAVE SOME PROBLEM S WITH T INSURANCE COMPANIES. THOSE WHO HAVE S MUCH POWER IN ONE STATE WE OUGHT TO FIX THT BY ALLOWING PEOP TO B ACROSS STATE LIN. WE OUGHT TO PUT PEOPLE IN CONOL OF THEIR POLICY BY ALLOWING THEM TO OWN THE POLICY, GIVE THEM TAX CREDITS. GET PEOPLE OFF THE SYSTEM OF MEDICAID. GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY BUY AN AAY OF INSURAN, CHOICES AMONGST THEINSURANCE COMPANIES KE THE FEDEAL EMOYEES HEALTH NEFIT PROGRAM. WHAT HAENS WITH THE GOVERNMENT PLAN IS THAT TH GOVERNMENT SETS THE RULES OF THE GAME. THEY ARE THE REEREE IN TH FOOTBALL GAME. AT THE LAST MINUTE THEYCAN CNGE THEOAL POST WHENYOU RY TO KICK A FELD GOAL. THEY WILL RUN THE PRIVE INSURERS OUT.

>> Woodruf THE CRITICISM ON THOTHER SIDE IS, IF YOU LE THE GORNMENT GET THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR, THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THIS THING OVER.

>> WELL,SEVERALISSUES WITH THAT. I GET A SNSE ALMOST OF A CHICKEN LITT THING GOING ON. WE CAN'T DO THIS THE S IS FALLING. WHAT WE DON'T HAVE IS A PLAN. WE HAVEN'T BEEN TOUGH RECONCILIATION. DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PL ULD BE. WE KNOW THE OBJECTIVES OF T PLAN. IT SEEMS TOME TO SUGGEST THAT A R-PROFIT GOVERNMENT-RUN SYSTEM CAN'T CO-IST, FED-EX AND THE U.P.S. INDICE THAT PROBABLY DELIVERING PAAGES YOU C RUN A FOR-PROFIT AND A NOT FOR PROFIT SYSTEM PRTTY WELTOGETHER. WH I DON'T UNDERSTAND FR E FOLKS 73% OFHE PHYSICIANS SUPPORT A ROBUST BLIC OPTION, WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND FROM T FEW THAT DON'T IS WHAT THE INSURANCE NDUSTRY BRINGS TO THE MIX. WHY WE NEETO GIVE UP 22, 23% OF OUR HEALTH CARE DOLLARS FOR PROFIT IN MARTING. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THA

>> Woodruff: T ME TURN TO YOU ON THAT PNT. WELL, YOUNOW, I DON'T AGREE WI THOSE FIGURES. I DON'T THINK THE JORITY OF PHYSICIANS WANT PUBLIC OPTION. ERTAINLY THE PUBLIC DOE'T WANIT. AND THE CT THAT THE GERNMENT HAS UNMITED RESOCES, THEY HAVE UNLIMIT TAXES AND THEY DON'T COUNT IN WHAT THEIR AINISTRATIVE COST IS, THE COLLECTION O THE TAXES AND MANY OTH THINGS AN SO JUST LOOKAT MEDICAI D SEE THE PROBLE IN MEDICAID THAT'S A FAID SYSTEM. LOOK AT THE PUBLIC OPTION IN MAINE, A FAILED SYSTEM. LOOK AT TENNESE, A FAILED OPTION. AND IF YOU GO TO OTHER COUNTRIES THAT HAVE THES, GO TO CANADA AND GREAT BRITN. I JUST GOT BACK FROM AUSTRALI WHAT THEY'RE DOING GIVING SUIDYS TO THE PATIENTS TO BUY INSURANCE TOET THE HEAT OFF THE PUBLIC STEM. AND SO I HAVE PRACTID SINCE 70 IN PRIVATE PRACTICE AND I CAN TELL YOU I'VE HAD MULTIPLE ROBLEMS BOTH WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND INSURANC COPANIES BUT THE KEY IS TO PUT THEPATIENT IN CONTROL AND THEY CAN CANCEL THE IURANCE WITH ONE INSURE AND GO TO ANOER IF THEY SO DESIRE. THAT GETS REAL COMPETITION INTO THE MIX. Woodruff: HE KEEPS COMING BACK TO THIS POINT. IT SULD BE THE INDIVIDUAL AND NOT THE GOVERENT.

>> THE PBLEM WITHHE DISCUSSI WE'RE HAVING IS IT NOT FACT-BASED. WE WOULD NOT MAP O A PLAN FOR TAKG CARE OF THE PATIE BASED THE MYTHAL DATA SET. WHAT HE HAS SAID IS THAT TH ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON SURVEY PHYSICIANS IS IS NOT CORREC, THAT THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATIO ANALYSIS OF OUR STANDG IN THE WORLD COMMUTY AND DELIVERY OF HEALTCARE, THAT THE G.A.O.ANALYSIS OF WH WE SPEND FOR HEALTH CARE, ALL O THOSE AREN'T RHT. WH WE NEED TO DOS HAVE AN INFORMED DISCUSSION, AEBATE, NOTHROW OUTFACTS THAT ARE... Y OR MAY NOT BE CORCT BUT LES LOK AT DATA THATS PPLIED BY OBCTIVE SERVERS.

>> Woodff: WHAT ABOUT JUST VERY QUICKLY HIS POINTHAT SA THE INDIVIDUAL....

>> I WOULD SAY... I WROTE A BOOK LAST YEAR PRCIPLES FOR SUCCESS. I HAVE A CHAPTER ON STATISTICS. I WOULD WELCOME A LOER DEBATE WITH HIM ON YOUR SHOW AT SOME TIME ABOUTTHE TRUE ANALYSIS OF STATISTICS. WHAT U WANT, WHY IS EVERYBOD AFRAID OF THE PATNT BEING IN CONTROL? ANDNOWHERE IN THIS LEGISLATIONS THERE ANHING TO FIX THE BROKEN MEDICAL LIABILITY SYSTEM. I MEAN THERE'S SOANY DETAILS AND WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WAT E SENATE PLAN IS. TY'RE JUST WORKING WITH SOME. THAT WOULD BE MALPRACTICEIN MEDICINE IF I SID TO YOU I'M TAKING YOU IN THE OPETING OM BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'VE G AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT I'M GOING TO DO WE OUT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOI ON BEFOR WE VOTE ON SOMETHING.

>> Woodruff: IT THE CASE THATE ARE DEALING WITH LIMITETIME HERE. BUT AGAIN O THISOINT ABOUT INDIVIDUALS, I MEA THE POINT THAT IT OUGHT TOBE TAX CREDIT THERE OUGHT TO BE MEDAL SAVINGS ACCOUNTS.

>> THINDIVIDUAL IS NOT IN CONOL NOW. THE INDIDUAL'S RIGHTS RAT CANO UP. THEIR DEDTIBLE CAN GO UP. THEY CAN BE DROPPED. THEIR PDUCT CAN BE ALTERED. HE INDIVIDUAL IS NOT IN CONOL NOW. BUT THENES WE HAVE IN CONTROL ARE PEOPLE WHOSE PRIMARY GOAIS TO TURN A PROFIT FORTHEIR STOCKHOLDER I'VE G NOROBLEM WITH PROFITS.

>> Woodruff: YOU'RE TAING ABOUT THE IURANCE.

>> INSUNCE COMPANIES AND A LOT OTHE PLAYERS ARE FOR- PROFIT AT THE BLE. BUT TO PROFIT O A PERSON'S NEED SEEMS TO ME TOBE UNETHICAL AND PERHAPS IMMORAL.

>> Woodruff: ADDRSS HIS POINT ABOUT THE INSURANCE INDUSTR HE'S NOW RAIS IT SERAL TIMES.

>> WL, I THI THE INSURANCE INUSTRY, WHAT YOU DO TO MAKE THEM COMPETITIVE IS TO GET R OF E BURDENS PUT ON ATTATE AND FEDERAL LEVELS. LET PEOPLE Y ACROSS STE LINE. DO WE HAVE AMODEL FOR THAT? THE FEDERAL EMPLOYEES HEALTH BENEFIT PROGRAM. FEDERALEMPLOYEE S IF THEY DON'T LI THE WAY THE INSURANCE COMPANY TREATS THEM, GUESS WHAT? THEY CAN PROTEST. NUMBER TWO, THEY CAN CHANGE AT THE ENROLLMENT TIME. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED. WEAN FIX THE PRE-EXISTG NDITIONS. THERE E PEOPLE IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW THAT ND HELP. I T LETTERS EVY DAY FROM PEOPLE. WE NE TO ADDRESSTHEIR CONCERNS. BUT NOT WITH RE GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER. THE PEOPLE ON MEDICAID HAVE INSURANCE. THEY DON'T GET MEDICAL CARE ALL THE TIME BEUSE THEY CAN'T FIND DOCTORS. THEY PAY LS THAN THE COST OF DELIVERG THE SERVICE.

>> Woodruff: A RIGHT.

>> THE GOVERNMENT DO.

>> I WLD LIKE TO RESPOND. WHEN YOU THROW OUT HYPERBOLE. CHARTS, LANGUAGE, GOVERNMENT TAKEOR, THAT FRIGHTENS PEOPLE. THAT'S NOT PRODUCTIVE. THINK WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND AND DIN'T HEAR A RESPONSE TO IS THE 22-23% OF EVERDOLLAR THAT THE INSURAN COMPANIES TAKE OUT THAT DON'TGO TO HEAL CARE.

>> Woodruff: WH ABOUT THE BUYINGCROSS STATE LINES QUICKLY?

>> YE THAT IS PRODUIVE. IT DOESN'T ADDRESSHE COST ISS AND IT DOESN'T GIVE PATIENTS CONTROL.

>> Woodruff: GENEMEN, WE COULD GO ATGREAT LENGTH. UNFORTUNATELY WE CAN'T THAT TODAY. MAYBE WE CAN BRING THEWO OF YOU BACK TOGETHER TO H A FURER DISCUSSION.

>> I WOULD WELCOME IT. YOU ARE A WONDERFUL MODERAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Woruff: I APPRECIATE THAT. WE VERY MUCH APPRECIATE BO OF YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH

>> Lehrer: YOUAN LEARN HOW

>> Lehrer: JUDY WOODRF TAKES

>> Lehre YOU CAN LEARN HOW HIGHISK INSURANCE POOLS PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR PEOPLWITH PREEXISTING CONDITIONS. THAT'S ON OUR WEB SI, newshour.pbs.o.

>> Lehrer: FINLY TONIGHT, A SPIAL BASEBALL STORY. THIS WEEKEND, THLOS ANGELES DODGERS INCHED THE NATIONAL LEAE WEST CHAMPIONSHIP. JEFFREY BROWN PROFILETHE MAN WHO HAS CALLED THE DGERS' GAMES F 60 YEARS.

>> IS TIME FOR DODGER BASEBALL.

>> Brown: IT'S A VOICE THAT GENERATIONS OF DODGERANS HAVE GROWN UP WITH, SAVORED, LOVED.

>> GROUND BALL T THIRD. BACKHANDED. HE STRIGHTENS UP. >>rown: INOS ANGES BUT ALSO INCREDIBLY GOING ALL THE WAYACK TO BACK LO IN THE 1950s.

>> THE PITCH AT THE RIGHT ANLE. BALL ONE.

>> Brown: ATGE 81 IN HIS 60th YEARS A RADIO AND TV BROADCASTER, SULLYSTILL FEELS THE THLL OF IT ALL MOST OF THE TIME.

>> MITTED THERE ARE DAYS WHERE YOU THINK I WOULD RATHER SIT UNDER A TREE AND READ A BOOK.

>> Brown: EVERYBO HAS THOSE DAYS.

>> BUT WHAT'S GREATS YOU COME TO THE PARK U DO THE ROUTINE STUFF. TN THE CROWD COMES IN. AND THE TEAM TAKES THE FIELD. AND THEROWD ROARS. AND ALL OF A DDEN YOU'RE DELIGHTED AS A KID IN A CANDY SHOP

>> Brown: THAT EXACTLY WHERE YOU WANT TO BE.

>> EXACTLY.

>> Brown: IN AGE WHEN THE SPORTS BROADCAST BOO IS CRAED WITH TWO OR EVEN THE ANNOUNCERS SUL STILL PFERS TO WORK ALONE.

>> SAHEZ A STRIKE AND THE COUNT 0-1.

>> Brown: GIVINGHE PLAYY- PLAY SCRIBING EVERY MONT OF THECTION AND PRIDING THE COLOR.

>> E BALL AND O STRIKE TO FREDY.

>> Brown: STOES ANDETAILS THAT ENTERTAIN AND ENLHTEN HIS AUDIENCE. HIS STYLE,MASTERY OF LGUAGE, D, YES, LONGEVITYHAVE MADE HIM A LEGEND IN SPOR CIRCLES. IT ALL BEGAN, HE SA, WITH LESSONS INATTITUDE FROM H MENTORED BARBER, ANOTHER BROADCASTING EAT,HO GAVE SULLY HIS FST BIG BREAK AND BROUGHT HIM INTOHE BOOTH IN OOKLYN IN 1950.

>> ONE OFY MANY JOBS AS THE NIOR PARTNER OF THE BROADCASTING FIRM ULD BE TO GET TH LINEUPS EVERY D. T'S SAY THAT ONE DAY I BROUGHT UP A LINEUP WHERE SMI WAS HITTING IN FRONT OF BROWN. E NEXT DAY I BROUGHT A LINEUP UP AND BROWN W HITTING IN FRONT OF SMIT RED WOULD ASK ME WHY. THE FIRSTIME HE ASKEDE WHY, I DIDN'T KNOW. HOVER, AFTER THAT, I KNEW. AND THAT WAS PT OF RED. BE THERE EARLY. BEERY WELL PREPARED. AND THENOU'RE READY TO GO ON THE AIR.

>> Brown: WHOERE YOU TALKI TO WHEN YOU'REOING E GAME? I MEAN YOU'R ONE OF THE FEW WHO STILL DOES IT ALONE FOR THE MOST PT. SO, WHORE YOU TALKINGO?

>> FIRST O ALL, I HAVETO MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT'S NOT EGO THING. T'S NOT THAT I JUST WA TO BE ON ALL BY MYSELF. TH GOES BACK TO BROOKLYN WHERE ED'S PHILOSHY WAS SIMPLY THIS. IF I WANT TO SELL YOU A CAR, IS BETTER FOR ME TO TALK TO YOUBOUT THE MITS OF THE R OR TALK TO SO-AND-SO AN HAE YOU LISTEN TO OUR DISCUSSN ABOUT THE MERITS OF THE CAR? RED ALWAYSELT THAT IT WAS TTER TO TALK ONE-ON-ONE. WHAT I'M DOING, I'M TALKING TO THE LISTER. IILL TALK. I'LL SAY, THE WAY, I FORG TO TELL YOU.

>> Brown I FORGOT TELL OU.

>> EXACTLY. I DON'T WANT T MICROONE TO BE I THE WAY. I WANT THEM TO KNOW I'M TTING NEXT TO THEM IN THE BALLPARK TALKING.

>> U HAVE THE BEST JOB THE WORLD.

>> own: THAT LEVEL OF INTIMACY GROWN INTO A SSE OF FERENCE COMES THROUGH CLEARLY AT TH BALLPARK. THROUGH TH YEARS, SKULLY HAS BROUGHT DODGERS' FANS AND THE EST OF US SOME OF THE SPORTS THEREATEST MOMENTS.

>> YAEE STADIUM. SLIVER SHIVERING IN ITS CONCRETE FOUNDATION RIG NOW SNEEF HE CALLED THE ONLY PERFECT GA PITCHED IN A WORLD SERIES DON LARSEN'S G FOTHE YANKEES AGAINS THE BROOKLYN DODGERS IN 1956. > GOT HIM! THE GREATEST GAMEEVER PITCHED.

>> Brown: NE YEARS LATER WAS THERE FOR SANDY KOUFAX'S PERFECTAME.

>> SANDY THERE'S THE PITC THE PERFE GAME.

>> HIGH FLY BAL INTO RIGHT FIELD. SHE IS NE! IN YEAR THAT HAS BEEN SO IMPROBABLE, THE IMPOSSIBLE HAS HAPPENED.

>> Brown:ND THEN THERE WAS THE FAMUS 1988 WORLD SERIES WALK-OFF HOME RUN BY A HOBBLED KURT GIBSON. ( CHES AND APPLAUSE ) THAT CROWD NOI AND THE SILENCE FROM E BADCAST BOOTH IS ANOTHER SULLY TRADEMARK.

>> WHEN I WA VERY SMALL, MAYBE EHT YEARS OLD, WE D A BIG RADIO THAT SOOD ON FO LEGS AND IT HA A CROSS PIECE UNDERNEATH IT. I USED TO TAKE AILLOW AND CRAWL UNDER THE RADIO. I WOULD LISTENO A GAME TH MEANT NOTHING TO A KID GRONG UP IN NE YORK. I MEAN, IT MIGHT BE TENNESSEE- ALABAMA. BUTHEN SOMEON SCORED A TOUCHDOWN AND THE CROWD ROARED, THAT CROWDOISE WOULD COME OUT OF THE SPEAKER LIKE WATER OUT A SHOWER HEAD IT WOULD JUST COVER ME WITH GOOSE BUMPS. D I USED TO THINK, , I'D LIKE TO BEHERE TO FEEL THAT ROAR OF THEROWD. T'S NEVER LEFT ME TO TH DAY. SO TAT WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS, LOVE IT TO SHUT UP AND HEAR THE CROWD.

>> 3-2 WOLF GOES.

>> Brown: T BIG MOMENTS ARE ONTHING BUT BSEBALL MORE THAN OTHER SPORTS IS ABOUT THE SMALL DETAILS. AND, OF COURSE, THE STORIES THAT FILL IN THE GAPS OF A LONG AFTEOONR NIGHT GAME.

>> REAY IT'S THE FELLOW WHO WORKED FOR THEMETROPOLITAN OPERA HOUSE, NOT NGING, AS A STAGE HAND FROM MIDNIGHT UNTIL DAWN TEAR DOWNHE PREVIOUS NIGHT'S OPERA AND PUT UP THE SCENERY FOR THE XTIGHT. YOU HAVE TO JUST TAL ABOUT EACH PLAY INDIVIDUALLY. IF I CAN GET ATORY ABOUT A AYER, I WOULD GIVE YOU SHIP LOAD O NUMBERS. BATTING AVERAGES AND ALL. JUST FOR THAT ONE PRECIOUS STORY. THAT'S THE KIND OFHING THAT I LOVE TO DO.

>> Brown: JOE TORRE, NOW THE DODGERS' MAGER, ENJOYED SUL'S STORIES GROWING UP AS A KID IN BROOKLYN BUT NOT SO MUCH WHEN HEAME TO LOS ANGELES AS A VISITING PLAYER WHEN THE DYS WHEN FANS WOULD BRING THEIR TRANSISTORS TO T BALLPARK AND E SOUND OF ULLY WAS EVERYWHERE.

>> JEFF, AS PLAYER, ISED TO STAND IN THATATTER'S BOX IN THE '60s AN PROBABLY EARLY '70s, AND IT W EERIE BECSE YOU COULD HEAR VINCE'S VOICE.

>> Brown: Y MEAN PEOPLE LISTENING TO H IN THE STANDS.

>> ON E TRANSISTOR RADIO.

>> I BEHERE IN TRYING TO CONCENTRATE ON HITTING KOAX OR DRIESDALE WHICH IS NO EASY TASK AND I WOD HRING VIN'S VOICE IN M EAR. IT WAS PRETTY UNUAL.

>> AND A TOWERINGRIVE. WOW, MANNY JUST TURNS TO SEE WHE IT'S GOING.

>> Brown: BY TH POINT VINCE LLY HAS RECEIVEDVERY ACCOLADE ERE IS. HE WAS INDUCTED INTO THE HLL OF FA WAY BACK IN 1982O WHAT MORE IS THERE? THERE WERE SOME STORIES ABOU THPOSSIBILITY OF RETIREMENT HAVE YOU MADE A DECISION? OROW WILL YOU KNOW WH IT'S TIME?

>> I'VE TOLD SEVERAL WRITERS THIS. AND AGAIN I GET BACKO IT. BUT IF YOU WANT TO MAKE GOD SMILE, TELL HIM YOUR PLANS. I'VE ALYS BEEN VERY, VERY RESCTFUL OF THAT SENTENCE. ALL I KNOW IS I'M WORKING THIS YEARND GOD WILLING I PLAN WORK NEXT YEA SOMEWHERE OVER TH YEAR, MY NEXT STEP WILL COME ABOUT. THAT'S ABUT AS I CAN DETERMINE RIGHT NW.

>> Brow BUT YOU'RE STILL ENJOYG WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

>> I LOVE IT. U KNOW HOW I KNOW I LO IT? BECSE WHEN THERE'S A GREAT PLAY ON HE FIELD AND THE CROWROARS I STILL GETOOSE BUMPS. I'MUST LIKE THAT LITTLE KID UNDER THE RAO. >>ASES LOADED. SIXth INNING, ONE OUT. DRIVE TO LEFT FIELD. DON THE LINE. IT IS IS GONE! A GRAND SLAM HOME RU CROWD CHEERING)

>> Lehrer: AGAIN THE MAJOR DELOPMENTS OF THE DAY. U.S. DEATHS IN AFGHANIAN REACD 16 SO FAR IN OCTOBER IN JUST THE FIRST FIVEAYS. AND THREE AMERICANS WERAWARDED THE 2009 NOBEL PRI IN MEDICE. THEY DISCOVERED KEY ENZYME IN CELLS THAT COULD AD NEW THERAPIES TO OW AGING AND BLOCK CANCER. ON newshourbs.org, TWO ONLINE- ONLY FEATURES TONIGH THE'S A REPORTERS' PODCAST ABOUT IRELAND'S VOTE TAPPROVE W POWERS FOR THE EUROPEAN UNION OVETHE AFFAIRS OF 27 E.U.ATIONS, AND THE NEWSHOUR'S OWN INTERVIEW WITH CAOL GREIDER, W WON THE NOBEL PRIZE IN MEDICINE TODAY. HERE'S AN EXCERPT.

>> IT'S REALLFUN TO BE ABLE TO FOLLOW NEW IDEAS AND TO STEER MY RESEARCH TO PARTICULAR DIRTIONS THAT HAPPEN TO BE THE MOST CITING TO ME. WETARTED OFF AS VERY BASIC SCIENCE. WEUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED TO CES. TH AS IT TURNS OUT THERE HAVE BE VERY IMPORTANT DISEASE IMPLICATIONS. SO WE'VE BEENBLE TO FOCUS ME OF OUR RESEARCH IN THOSE AREAS AS WE.

>> Lehrer: GEIDER SHED THE NOBELPRIZE FOR MEDICINE WITH TWO OTHER AMERICANCIENTISTS. WE'LL E YOU ONLINE, AND AGAIN HERE TOMORROW EVENING I'M JIM LEHRER. THANK YOU, AND GO NIGHT. MAJOR FUNDING F THE NEWSHOUR WITH M LEHRER IS PROVIDED BY: WHAT IF THAT ENERGY CA FROM AN ENERGYOMPANY? EVE DAY CHEVRONINVESTS $62 MILLION IN PEOPLE. IN IDEAS. SEEKIN. TEACHING. BUILDING. FUELING GROWTH AROUND THE WORLD TO MOVE U ALL AHEAD. THIS IS THPOWER OF HUMAN ENERGY. CHEVRON. >>HIS IS THE ENGINE THAT NNECTS ABUNDANT GRAIN FROM T AMRICAN HEARTLAND TO HARAN'S ST SELLING WHEAT, WHILE KEEPING 60 BILLION POUNDS OF CARBON OUT OF THE ATMOSERE EVERY YEAR. NSF, THE ENGINE THAT CONNEC US. INTEL. AND BY TOYOTA. AND MOANTO. ANGRANT THORNTON.

>> AND BY THE BILL A MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION. DEDICATED TO THE IDEA THATLL OPLE DESERVE THE CHANCE TO LIVE A HEALTHY, PRODUCTE LIFE. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUORT OF THESE INSTUTIONS AND FOUATIONS. AN... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSBLE BY THE CORPORATION F PUBLIC BROADCASTIN D BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR S STATION FROM EWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU. aptioning sponsod by MacNEIL/LEER PRODUCTIONS Captioned by Media Access Group at BH access.wgbh.o