1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-27; Part 4 of 5

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pain reporters in the law and i'm sorry that i don't have and that there were very many major ones of a political nature of my recollection is that a great deal of pain what we did it had to do with a black panthers another ms geri weis sent to keep track and it's what's my minds just with the baden that was what i do recall is keeping us informed and regular basis of the violence as they become became available are i'm sorry

reporting or coarseness us was justified the art of information to see a matter of public record other information the receivers that matter we're going to be a recess to have somebody like you julie we got me as an action within your police department one point i had been in intelligence involving while groups of that and

yet sources particularly in the new york police department's religious divisions and so the when the recipient of information because of that former association well i know when i was there some in the adequacy of the normal i previously or i previously testified and senator that we were not getting an accumulation of intelligence from the police and sheriff's offices in the state police of the various municipal and state organizations and that it was sometime i think it was probably the second year or possibly into the third year before there was set up and the justice department a facility for accumulating all this is julio athletes in the sixty seven months of the work in house office when i was counsel i didn't have a makeshift job of getting some of this information

join us what's going on i do he was he was fired because he was well known and he was tired of it but principally on the populace a sell recommendation well look where you are where a nightmare i met him in an airport while i was on a trip to the artist i recall an awful as i recall arranged a meeting for

us out i mean i guess i made that decision the idea that was tested so the new situation whereby reagan the potential white house employees airports as authorities say about a statement he was not a white house employee and he was never very point was that we were not gathering political information with government the identity when we are have prominent people in the us as we are to have what was established on the outside was made on the outside and you have this anomaly of having to conduct some

political activities political fundraising and staff and an investor that furniture you know the political funds and they have to be outside well that's certainly what it was the reason why we want a mountain outside a world would be the moon when you were you were in that i don't think the way it was set up in this senator because he was being paid no way we'll be able to find out

thanks very much what was your concept of a political information see unfortunately unfortunately thanks everybody testing you're welcome

job i wonder if you might ultimately want your concept has a particular united states in and so far as this type of actions well i think that certainly there is room for improvement in the practice of politics is no argument about that at the same time i think that each candidate who contests with fantasy of unemployment as the obligation to come forward and in terms of property in terms of his more secure place and then the other factor is important or jermaine for the borders of his district or state or a country for them i think a candidate for all citizens are

showing the unfairness of the income and i don't think that in our political system there is limited if it were we would countenance the perpetuation of scoundrels in office who were pleased or were fraudulent oregon were going or otherwise unfit for office and so i think that we can't do it do you mean to tell me that in this committee the chickens are private investigators going into sexual habits drinking of his domestic problems and personal social activities as that there's a proper subject for investigation the course for political campaigns are right no my own knowledge of incumbents in office who are not discharging their obligation to their constituents because of their drinking it distresses me very much

as a kind of an unwritten law in india but that is not as cut and so the constituents at home have no way of knowing that you can go over here in the gallery and watch member caught her on the floor in it in a condition which at least partially really what would preclude them from making any sort of those over judgment on the issues that confront this threat i think it is important for the american people his political campaign again the contrast in similar situations again i just want to let these things that laid out the table without having

another side yard i've had an election campaign you succeed and democrats to vote i suppose democratic opponent what you need now seems to me isn't a constituency where the insurgency really make a determination that they go ahead and what do you really want to bring the political system of the united states our campaigns down to the level of what

you're talking about oh i guess i can say with this place and i i know given your situation your lifestyles and utterly implacable and there would be anything that you like legally speaking senator that that certainly some of us are thinking that is about what the us what kind of heavy duty university's center there says the united states out that is certainly a material that has to be raised in a political campaign resulting in may now if that is not

and you are leaving the constituency for the tender mercies of the journalists in the community but we're not that's reporter really especially lately constituencies remote are people that are very self to make an observation so i would be very concerned about that and that seemed to me to be a very legitimate subject of them are now maybe my standard for all that work and that everybody would be immune from scrutiny unanswered but that seems to me to be defensible position your honor we don't know sir the thing the game and then hear all the time not just to hear you like talk there's anything that is quite obvious in washington dc and every aspect of our lives legislatively person in every way subject to

scrutiny of a free press of several screaming contests it's been obvious to you regular mail i am quite satisfied to our systems our institutions

or of passing the siege of their job levy's widow operations in the us as sarah i would only disagree with you i think that your assumptions with regard to the full recordings by the media the first time that people in public life i no deals hello liane certainly the members of this committee are being subjected to scrutiny in a way remember united states senate floor

recently announced that i think it is possible for some members to just under shelters situation for years and years and years here and perpetuate themselves in offices because you know i know the advantages are heavily in favor of the income and you are in a position to favorite reporters stories in so long it's a it's an uphill struggle for someone and to take on an incumbent united states senator under any circumstances and that and those are not always says others as they might be in the members of this committee and the senate so i think you and i have a difference of opinion but i think that reasonable minds can differ on the senate particularly in the area of drinking in the area of the us there is terror

subject matter that would be totally offensive to me as i would be at a and i don't mean content for matters beyond those lines but i do think that that's one of the things that does this whole proceeding is about having him for defying the lions or within which an inquiry has been common flight performance voting record are a subject of inquiry it is a lot about recruitment morrison election campaign in what was an improper was improper and chris was on members of congress the concern insofar as alicia for an executive in the french legislative branch one up o'brien executive legislative branch you considered proper information to get out to go ahead and win

election proper information to get out of television between the legislative and executive branches of information without religion proper to provide legitimate fact that they're on the thickness of an income well what you're saying where we disagree i don't think anybody realizes you go through different concepts of politics in this country i always thought that we sell you're the best in

recent years campaign but this is more than john edwards are elections on the basis of them as a problem and thoughtful activities often used that to your version say that in our in what we have asked the fbi didn't determine the purpose of an individual from one of the executive branch these kinds of questions drinking habits of the joint tax evasion and money are all considered an important questions as unsettled and the review is ours as i know when a selection of people in this administration has been very rigorous standards have been very high well number one player though what the fbi in the same category with you last and i just don't think that's a fair comparison of all

that these are two entirely different entities i'm proud of the federal bureau of investigation services the president our vision well the funding will now yesterday in response to a series of concerning the need for the

plumbers you stated as follows and i assure you that the decisions made in this matter what investigators interview was taken mosul on hand for a genuine purposes prisoners are simply inadequate now in order to satisfy yourself on this you'll hear from mr mitchell that was here is what you will find that it's a counselor you have the transcripts and page fifty five groundwork for you image he

testified before this committee the white house cards went on reverberations on june twenty one nineteen seventy two this was actually had as attorney general is that image a lot in my recollection here isn't easy the president and asked that we meet with several members of the county lines that they were lesser than at several members of the cabinet departments would be subject to special units stimulation so to speak to get them to perform better than certainly the twenty eight in july we had that meeting with must admit mr young designers

and in nineteen seventy one why now daisy mr mitchell yeah mr mitchell

shockwave revelations and feared the disclosure of these events might also president elect just now the next day in nineteen seventy two they're witty we do and which may involve a phone call between you and mr mitchell about eleven twenty eight and that's honestly mitchell's appointment of life thank you

michel and john edwards and an eleven point five inmates with you i want you to commercial discussions at eleven point five am meeting that you could not discuss politically involved i don't answer as his long tour of the region and the phone call it because i cannot reconstruct at me i just do not know what that may be i have do you think there's any possibility mr mitchell had received the report measures will ruin one of a reporter before the injury

that he specifically discussed this problem this problem of the reagan in the white house for an is appears to want to do what i suggested and not happen that way but there's reason i suspect that this meeting was convened be as for the reason contained in the funk or whatever that was and i answer is i don't know what it was but it had been something that was in his mind in the morning when we all run together at nine thirty years the most likely would have stayed back as sometimes happened with some of those people in them at that time partner greg are they back after everybody else left and we talk about something that he had on his mind i'm really surprising i just don't know i can tell you this that at no time expressed in these concerns

i do on the same day another possible scenario the next day on june twenty thirteen you in a phone call to hell joel to a meeting in iraq which means shallow waters ali in nineteen

seventy three on june twenty three and the democrats the fbi investigation yeah so that actually agency was in the director revealed that there was in the president's wish on acting fbi director and just to have that sense of five suspects been arrested this should be sufficient and that was not advantageous to have the and especially in mexico it's a messed up ear one second reason for my reading this moment is that obviously there are four participants in this meeting and

i want to do grant and made it plain so the agency was not that was not connected with another suspect was working for more police in the last two years none of this investigation all an unstated but i could tell ray i talked to the white house and suggested the investigation not be pushed further ray would be receptive as he was looking for guidance in an hour the director of the agency was i can do that

today they are now that's a state of hysteria as well as a few years later and helen in no uncertain terms of arabia the idea struck him not to pursue his investigation that's concerning might involve cia right right and with

morning edition senator that meeting was convened the president's request i learned later that the president was operating on the basis of an independent source of information about a real concern that compromise the my recollection of that meeting is that conservatives was in the general thrust an inmate in the state as i recall we informed that meeting was being held at the president's request for the reasons that i just stay home and said that the watergate was very obvious important political issues the president had no alternative but to order for all out the fbi investigation unless he was that but there was one specific area in which

the fbi role for fear of leaps through the fbi are disassociated a disconnect that cia activities that had no bearing on watergate as i recall there were a couple of basic questions that we're asking these young one was whether the cia was directly involved in the breaking and they said it was not the other was whether or not there were any just associate cia activities after our prize which might somehow be disclosed through a vigorous fbi investigation they do not make the same kind of negative response as they had made to the other as a matter of fact my recollection is a response to the fact that they don't keep track as the director and deputy director of these regional activity such as the one in mexico they want to chat with a regional manager now you have a new work

i think a letter and i'm filthy forty seven as to the mexican situation and then they confirmed that oral assurance of the twenty seventh of june in writing on the sixth of july and on the sixth of july when director grey called the president said i now have a memo from the cia assuring me but there's no problem and the president said let's go a lot of that is the sequence of events wyden record all because you see i assume it's because he had this memorandum oh no oh no why the director all quite a factor that president calderon is director of alternate route

you've expressed that situation thousands of that hadn't to get in touch with the president doesn't comment tell me july and he had been talking with a ponytail at radio thousands of years ago around the room and i never thought of that gen walter and that rape or surgical residents are all the same apprehension ig investigation is being interfered i think it was i hope you understand

it was for the purpose of those young president's concern and the meeting did not pollinate in any instructions to anyone except the request of general walters and he sat down and talk to he didn't exactly reassured now that in fact is what happened overnight is connected thermostat that one twenty minute meeting back in june twenty thirteen you sitting here with the director of the cia know joel one of the law to address any requests from the cia to the director of the cia that you were told by the president that he wanted to work for general mills as a testimony or values committee well

yeah residents instructions were not to me that mr pollan he's going to be your best witnesses and those instructions my understanding of those instructions second hand as the president said that he won two dollars and that great work this outpouring and that was confirmed today by the president later today and then we also have the more in revenue than what he indicates concern over the law of political science and it is you actually see it

and reconstructing the city so it affects your testimony stands in conflict with the versions of that meeting told why as i've read them to you a ball towards and director helms yes sir one last years were like we've got to take a telephone conversation comes to take you have for you is with me too to try kind of strangeness or to say which of those normal practice but on march

seven or eight and the follow up conversation with john dean the same day and i wonder if at this time that we might not live chairman have these injured dozens of people and i didn't want it to the transcriptions to take telephone conversations the first victory so because of the world's bees

it's been as the committee sorts out the transcripts of all those telephone calls were going to make sure bright public television's coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after a pause for a station identification on a bridge to coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs a public broadcasting service fb to pay

and fact continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select

committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer as i go back to that yang senator wyden here's asking mr erlichman about hearings on patrick gray's nomination as fbi director you're so right we can do that i said well great but it makes an issue is a great nineteen seventy three when that rise for an issue that had sort of this competition

propositions position to the judiciary committee could only question has several conduct the investigation of the substances they are committing do you also point out greece aimed at aclu is the letter to the committee stayed in the same position the same way and you know and i think you've got to be very careful about what he says he knows in his own mind the people are and everything you have to the fbi doesn't make any distinction between from the girls in low people and everything to the fbi now listen to me you

know delivery of the contents of ponce fact that someone who wasn't there wasn't someone very hurt merle right right and that he delivered over those aig this is absolutely imperative philip molloy ok it is

i like this bain which is really to make sure the remains very very very firms that a history of the fbi that is right it doesn't have really any question mr miller yeah well i'm really really windy comic lovers tracks be sure i lay this on an issue that i see ok

they know it and you know because the issues are don't have any idea what he said well i say it was the final jurisdiction the group get into the substance and the roman jurisdiction wants to lower the procedural efforts and his common sense says the aclu are one and the same effect the chinese that's right and i was in my last morning that exactly and that is exactly where he was coming out he said i'm not sure this morning early so military

first of all the question of the press reports these is usually design and yesterday and he said oh i see okay i was going for dinner i don't know i don't know i'm never going to know like what does that mean in previous day about i was looking as you're reading see if i can see what i've been transporting in that particular week in those hearings and it seems to me that the issue was primarily whether being sat in on the interviews that the army investigation and the question of whether being one day judiciary committee

i think that this was one series of telephone calls of just a gray made me in being closer those testifying today throughout his view of thousands sometimes rather optimistic direct response to your question i laid it in ireland that's correct oh yes

you testified to separate events one was the fifteenth of april where mr peterson an attorney general kleindienst inform the president and i think viewers of yourself also of the fact that the records the records had been burned and record an episode with a phone conversation mr baig our conversation is a phone conversation to greatly now telephone call me neither the president nor i knew or had any reasonably well i think it might be a

piece by these blue whales join the operation that's clear from the state telephone conversation that you don't think of it very much less for some reason other morning about it these this president doesn't think very much a packed rally you serve that nature of an obviously the

very much one is the nominee well senator i think you'll remember those confirmation hearings into revelations i think it is fair to say that there was this and chat with the matter which we have all been so there's a lot of looking at what you were reading was the various events that took place planet mr gray singing it and admitting that it was an

overstatement and so now at this point in time there was a general assumption that mr gray's in the process of confirmation and my question but you mean to tell me of reasons to this degree of disenchantment which are the keepers man on as a nominee and then later on the second record in fact until april twenty seven twenty thirteen steps down thacker well it must be some reason there must be some reason i think the situation was evaluated this as being a perhaps powerful men and painful as it existed for perhaps more people to have their withdrawal withdrawal it was it was

that nomination and it wasn't going anywhere in committee and we have some about financial firm and somewhere along with rick klein president begins active consideration other alternative lens on march seventh or any obviously when the jury reviews of your youth and you say nominations through and yet nothing happens until april twenty seven and only then because at least a good portion of that great story was made public only twenty six percent was long before that and the honorees

was in cooperation with the us and i think april fifteenth matter and your attention while preventing that destroyed the top we know you think there's any possibility of the fact that i have the actors kept in place so there was the acting director of the fbi under the control you have to fall you use it in a

week he decided to move immediately replaced ruckelshaus who was one of the names that have been on this alternative was for some time so that it was it was not a situation i can think of any particular advantage that anyone in that delay except for the investigators and i'll be a sense of peterson and they have the they have to make their case on march seventh disgust you and this is an evaluation made of the director hayden nominee director of the federal bureau of investigation as the man is the postal service all and these valuations are

made on seventh grade the market and nothing happened and that on the fifteenth of april the man even turns to file that until the courts and you're telling me that basically always involved here was one investigation after april fifteen what will be the recent polling place between march seventh april of thing well this is in the middle of the confirmation process and that ran until first part of april as i recall six of april the president asked for his resignation

i think not there's information on this right now been made public you think he still would have submitted his resignation only a twenty seven people well i had no idea as to the state of the investigation at that point we were the attorney general and leaders and i think they were calling it in very well most of the time i don't know thank you and i'm david

greene i'm not sure i can search this larose well sometime of the ball well it was dirty original grand jury process now you stated early yesterday that some of the witnesses will not require rigid and making phone calls no sir it's your

testimony that thank you your station with his questions the plea that was an accident i mean there's no any way of getting it mayor

salinas right and one of his resume that he knew more about the imam says don't go with the emotional about it what is it that's a painting not questioning my stance on life and that's not a political ad and my friends that they were investigating the regular army oh

really it was the security council oh yeah fb the