1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-11; Part 3 of 5

the power throw in particular meeting in talking about mr flemons down on the previous day also the meeting that we have them and then there in the course of that i mean there's a lot and as a we're getting edgy crp and its asian neighbors which required to argue that is correct and he put it this way senate that time i had not officially been associated with the committee for the reelection of the president or for the president undoubtedly a decision makers of the one discuss with rulers announced them as i recall there were quite a few of them i understand he was

twenty two i wouldn't doubt that there were twenty different papers a different subject matters because i was being brought up to speed on what's happening in the campaign and as i say that with respect to whether or not they were decisions by me or whether discussions and consultation approval i was not officially at the committee at that time i'm sure that it was the paper's were bought the parties are discussing with me i'm getting my reaction and you did have some leaves with respect to work policy at the committee witness magruder and with <unk> lister no one of these invaders was set initiated have white tan dealing with the third version of the levee

plan in scale down to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars is that correct substantially perks mandate what was your decision with respect to these now before as that respect that question now i understand from that testimony that there were three carloads of this particular plan detainees were using in the deliberations at this game patients on any of these papers i don't recall any notations on any of the papers i can assure you that i made

no notations on what you're referring to is that thank you at the key biscayne had never approved the league plan as we're discussing it at any time and certainly i didn't approve of the key biscayne good you approve any budgetary requested a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and most of that was part and parcel of the same item was presented at that particular time and that was no approval of any part of that subject matter that time is your recollection very definitely on that or are you saying it's because you do not remember exactly what transpired very very strong election law some of the things that those same concept would come back in a move their time laughter

decisions decisions were made in connection with the first two there's no question in my mind that my recollection on the subject matters are strong then then according to testimony and used here mr cuomo mysteries here in washington as a mystery here to call this today but the plan going to have at a columnist and that are you aware of any of those conversations so far as a justified to close what you do agree that there is the testimony on the part of mysteries in iran mr miller that said that her those conversations in her testimony was given with respect and it also aired a

day mr liddy i'm turning points to report that the plan had been a vote on about that time well there is an animation ah here we have three individual of testimony and newness in the midst of the car and very unhappy the plan had been a brew this is convert to what you are staying before this committee and whether you're making money and then this is true no trouble whatsoever

with respect and this matters so in effect to say that they owe a new iraq what i'm saying is that i did not approve that plan on march thirtieth of that was that they had that meeting a key biscayne oreos the subsequent time and let's go now to a low legalization that when you know the director of the cia during your incumbency as director you had me with respect to the budget which means you have to finance committee and mr mcgrew there and this room yourself moving the yeah the yeah

expenses or they can take a campaign that is a center of the budget committee also hers mr spanton was just long mr na na mr malek eventually became i believe mr spencer testified that he would go in there as the chairman of the finance committee and the budget hearings but actually the expenditures were set out by your division and your reaction to it was that about right really are all revolve around the last analysis is how much money does the stands race and then we would make determinations as how much will be spent and what particular area of christmas stands also have his input would object to the fact that you

didn't need a six dollars for joe elevation and direct mail would overlap a separate center but the actual upright mrs ford's the money or expanded with in general categories were contained a personal budget and then to prevent that but it was the men under your direction with their brutal require was amended or discussed before the finance committee meetings are now i believe your testimony has been that you did not approve any specific as president with respect to any cash that was given to mr libby implementation of the surveillance and intelligence gathering that is also most spends just in

adelaide of the same conversation with a master's so testified in specific figures are that's right now is that i was mature that at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars we know you want it but to a message on the border between was just then and that small they're scared of being dispersed to mr vick that figure comes from work and i believe that there was an expenditure by mr lilley before i arrived on the scene is justified to understand that some twenty five thousand dollars and as i

recall mr sloan his testimony with respect to the total there was turnover liddy was a hundred and ninety nine thousand dollars so we're talking about the difference between a hundred and twenty five hundred and ninety nine thousand dollars and then when you write in that scene you were told about this actually happened twenty five thousand dollars we also told what that figure and jurors and i was not tell five thousand dollars to senator testifying yesterday when the post watergate investigation came along it was very very difficult to get the information out of the individuals involved only point sloan mr gary stangler forty thousand dollars and have been given the libyans loans i know as much much more finally resolve the question of getting messages stand so

if biden and get information what it without getting up for mrs danvers you're an album that it voluntarily when i came on board in april well immediately i was aware that those are and what context do with respect to the question is it an estimate i was aware of the fact that those two information gathering intelligence gathering operation the mr libby was very caring all the hundred and twenty five thousand dollars the first time i ever saw was one was dispensed justified here for this committee give me these cities are the intelligence gathering that mr libby was gathering at that time when you were selling farm at the time

senator to the time when the levee over to the office in november twenty fourteen talk about the position where he was kind of good intelligence and this would be part of his activity to get information related which might be useful in the campaign either in testimony here and i vividly recall a factor many went to san diego and then the survey of them gathering storm with respect of the elements that were going through imagine a national committee that was investigating by lydia later date the number of such items none of which were of great consequence to me

except possibly the san diego convention site problem were you aware that working with him no i never heard them astronomers working with him until after that seventeenth of june now it's just long has indicated here and mcgruder if you knew and had given authority for the disbursement of this money to most of it on their testimony is in the air his contract and what you have stated here today there we have another is insane to witnesses who testified here when the gate contrary to what you had testified hearing today senator loans just thought things are now now i'm just really focused on not trying to

spew the rectitude of what you're saying and it really isn't about how they're really going through the june seventeenth at a new in california the law mandated a particular hill gate in some kind of political activity in california and we were staying at the beverly hills hotel i believe it was the beverly hills of tellers there were a group of us out there of the girls and then on the morning you were advised to what happened here in washington and it was really worse and then immediately and locate conference having breakfast which you out that with the different individuals

prove it there is a reaction in part to the breaking point senator it was in a practice known as la place other than the hotel they were staying at a place they call at the airport marine or something to that effect where the political activities were taking place high rise to have a press conference after two israeli media luncheon and so forth when complications as you call them are helpful the purpose of trying to tell me what happened and what response i possibly have a press conference some connection with facts as the veterans those that would you receive the information from an image of making my statement their emotions well

i'll believe that time mr martin amis to members we have talked with people back in washington i'm not certain if it was anybody else whether muscular rubin or not but i would believe that mr martin and mr mcgregor would have talked to them and possibly also must clifford miller announcer and why do they call it i'm not certain that i can answer either part of their questions obviously we're going back to get information and go says it's a since been justified by recalling public information office of the major election of the president and i gather the way this is the rejuvenated or form in a statement issued in los angeles this from the washington post to nineteen well

in a statement issued last night in this mixture of the court and the other poem and rested and ready for saturday we're not operating either or where they are in the alleged mugging refrain this is a continuation of that location referring to the alleged attempt by the opposition to michel said well there is no place in our campaign or in the electoral process for this type of activity and we will not permit it nor i know now is that in every state that's a very accurate now what did you do in order not to condone what did i do in order not only you try the you

try at you that back in washington to find out who are the individuals that might be responsible for this work yes there is discussed and on the way back on the planes to martinsville room with charts and investigation and we brought lawyers enter the picture as soon as it became evident that we were going to have it on civil litigation as i'm also interested in art of all wanted to bring lawyers into the picture to represent those who were involved or to try to extract information sufficient information to man so that you could be able to pay any culpability and those who are responsible voters and then what culpability new to an hour as

result of this legal representation obviously we're the government the probability of mr lenny at least so far as his refusal to talk of the federal bureau of investigation you were i mean what did you do it in germany invaded you talk to a prosecuting attorney for being an officer and inform him on this debate basically in his affair i don't believe senator that i'm sure i did and i don't know what people were conducting investigation and then on september second nineteen seventy one imposed but

still following his twenty minute isn't the officer edward bennett williams democrats attorney told reporters outside that he wasn't in norway and also in the watergate incident all the best to the plan you know i can get ahead that is to your testimony yesterday and then then on september six nineteen seventy two working for stories that follow michel told reporters yesterday that the watergate incident was a ridiculous to think that the news media had blown all out of proportion he was telling me with that statement do you think

that the incident there was a ridiculous statement one of nature that we're talking about signed talking about the breaking and entering into the democratic national committee i think it was that served no purpose there was in nobody's interest and a president should never have happened and it shouldn't be condoned under any circumstance and it really the news media has blown this if there are questions yes i do single act of a break than ever and i still believe it's been blown out or just you know when you get to the whole story thats now become known as watergate is referred to as watergate i think that's an entirely different subject matter and the subject matter that i was talking to in september of nineteen seventy two when i go just ramifications from the trunk of that tree

no i think that goes for now on a politically first nineteen seventy three leicester and what they ate and i went the former attorney general who also served as campaign director for reportedly told the grand jury that he knew that roeder would not have moved ahead independently with a secret mission from higher with us to say that i didn't say that and those term senator i think my comments on that particular occasion was that i didn't know who might have a final thought here of prospective jurors can jet injector as to whether or not the reader one of move ahead on his own one nine

<unk> and there hadn't heard what the washington post katrina do you what is your testimony today with respect well when you say this has been a good thing would you say that would not have moved ahead independent with plans for the bugging unless he had received permission from iraq's oil just at the age of those that i do not know who is final party or who in concert move this program includes activity about that with respect and has to use to pay and he was the kind of a man that would not moving sit with permission from some pirates are

in the washington post and i should always rely on the washington post you said the question with respect and that started you just read i say my recollection that i did not specifically make that statement was made in the context of i did not know where the final push for show or approval came from with respect to your specific question on this record i do not know whether he in concert with others may have moved ahead on iran feel is the recruiter would not have done so unless that was coming from somewhere do you have any speculation as to work with that the

record has been made by most of the answer was the dean's testimony has better insight on a victim and testimony is correct in the assumptions that may with respect to this particular subject was testimony will rest of the team as i recall his testimony you covered a great many areas of hearsay about what people had told him with respect of the subject matter how then after watergate you look at on june nineteen and you had a million years now through the computer and yourself you recall i mean you're an officer and

you requested that mean i'm ester dean got to check and see if the white house embarrassment to be prevented no sir meeting was as of that timeframe lovely nineteenth of june i was unfamiliar with the white house are storing fuel this economy discuss anything with respect to the games don't find my recollection was no discussion whatsoever when i sing it to the best of it is saying is that your recollection not as a positive statement i'm saying

time matters subjects that the police certainly not my presence there on the music i think that if i want that meeting to my recollection we do not discuss anything except to get everything from the people who were in washington martin ruin nestled just haven't come back from the west coast as to what the current circumstances were and inspect our perspective the response is a rat actually wrote my greatest thing for mr bean and these other people that they have already gotten some at about the particular moment i think very rare or show that mr dean had talked to mr

liddy on that day the nineties i think his testimony will also show that he did not discuss any of these activities or any of those meetings on the nineteenth of that meeting at the apartment that night now on june twenty seconds you have any of that right one winter well there's a question here of those public testimony yesterday the jury that you're worthy of the meeting was on the first or twenty seconds and i'm referring to that particular meeting to

pay which which meeting with one is jeremy at the white house on the second meeting at the white house every morning did you discuss any anything relating to the watergate incident with any individuals at the white house all of those type of meeting with delegates fifteen every morning was certainly no discussion of any of the details of the watergate matter is that meeting was held every morning at the white house the circumstances where you were all the top step people from dr kissinger always through the virtual wheel something and did you during her subsequent visits the white house gauging any conversation mr erlichman was about the course of the

investigation as well as being as it was being conducted by the lawyers and others with respect to work somewhere sometime a long way to these discussions were held i can't pinpoint any particular meeting we were more heavily engaged in matters of a campaign we were discussing the fickle aspects of the watergate investigation the duo discuss the testimony before the grand jury mr rude or are they just that was going to be presented by mr the way that anyone at the white house the testimony was going to be presented by mr d and the testimony that was going to be

presented those patients well with other people yeah a new television ad whether or not mr alan knew anything about the so called activities trying to cover up the white house and all of that with respect to the war what the white house involvement in one respect the center and white house involvement in connection with the watergate hearings or i don't know is there's been an it's just a moment of effect that the white people in the white house were involved in watergate with respect to recover well eventually along the road there was

discussions in connection with the fact that the there was no voluntary are coming forward and the other was a desire not to have the stories come out that had to do with the way it's part of a question thank you a sincere desire to see the president elect and that's why you failed to tell em on you knew about watergate that now that it that is it correct that you let the water get the other activities that week it really is david by mr moyers and knowing that are so concerned was that the white house should not be disclosed and that's

why you did not tell the president about this situation now is never could do that then you could separate from the white house or oil it's been episodes are now than eat lunch and we're going all briefly a moment senator montoya wind up his examination and then i will be senator ervin's turn public television's coverage of the watergate hearings will continue after this pause for a station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service fb facebook

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been crazy and that continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer as the committees' gavel but the war it will be the senator from new mexico asking the questions the piece brain is

really it was devastating to me who in washington knew at the bottom of justice and once he does think that's correct but you would do if you send a present less detail then now later on when they're at a june seventeenth it was the vote that there's some people that they see it might have been involved in the raid and you made a statement saying that it wasn't only involved than i had no advanced notice now the

german to say that you have no specific knowledge or did you mean to say that you were not aware that in that time and also a lot of those right now after the june seventeenth then you had several meetings with the president and you indicated that said you did not want to vote for the president were to have ascertained now for the reason that you did not want to bury his chances of re election after the election do you think about this did you think of the advisability of after the election rationalization

changes in the white house personnel the individual's certainly were not going to pursue that type of activities that they have in the past well in october nineteen seventy two the president made his state made it to the ninety nine at a residential lot i wanted to be in the white house no man or woman in a division of major responsibility and a committee for re election and anything to do with this kind of reprehensible actively i presume you read that statement i presume you were

aware of that this figure in your mind the possibility that you might have various your determination not to tell the president before the election in october in october the fifth nineteen seventy two person was before the election when i don't recall him particular thoughts that i have on the subject matter at that time saying well i know you are fully aware that the president was making public statements indicating but he was trying to get an answer to and it's like if you did not come forward and tell him what you knew about wanting to correct them and your concern he said you did not want to trigger or any action that might impair the president's reelection

and that's why you did not advise him before the election that could be you that set your desire to insulate the president against disclosure i knew of the exact details of where it was not exclusively because there were others opposed to the president i'm sure i mean is that the possibility exists and at that time that if you did not tell the president that mr lister well understood the nineteen nineties did you ensure it is that thing happening most are we have no discussion along on here for most of the time well if your interest was so inclined to draw

any presidential action that might endanger his chances of re election why did you not but people close to the president to make sure that they would not tell the president about that detail involving want i believe that they are capable of making their decisions on their own i obviously a great monologue it comes by but we have the situation you for this committee and so we have a situation now whether or not the lady plan was approved well indeed did you disapprove of a plan the visiting yes completely jettison yes i'm all

right as you know active political activists in the spectrum be permitted we're like well why don't you point out the wrestlers turn now i think law i do

in nineteen sixty seven it has been and you're with with that moment and you'd be given political committees oh wow

this is a political issue and i might say that that was my first entry into the political campaign i'm a politician we'll be related to the justice department and as legal i'm enjoying it that unfortunately is very very difficult to turn now don't you think that we were investigating

omnicom has given serious consideration perhaps even go further and suggested to divorce all the apartment i think it would be a very constructive move at the plaza and truly committed that world

and which is not calculated to allah a couple dozen lobbying or he well now weiss why do oil spill occurred in the united states and the united states and the western united states made in israeli allows an impact on tests and which sites that were discussed as proposals and butter the bow an opposition political party and the opposition party and to employ too low and the initial members of the opposition party because

of the commitment with it but this game where you want to discuss the common good and i wouldn't use the term discussed there were present in arizona of her and usually laugh you know you're welcome and occasionally i cannot the light was constantly broke back except for the point that somebody obviously was very interested in the subject and take you oh oh all this

law breaking testimony mr bateman says the us to the earth this was not you're welcome where does and in the new way that's right and they did you find out how about the b seventeen through that up a pant finance about women's rights and we'd fallen and in new york

scripts and also radical the word is that that they are added that money which they don't know maybe that was eventually lost i'm going to be able to pay this is the first in a series of interruptions as the senators will vote on amendments to a bill that would authorize construction of an oil pipeline through alaska senator and will pick up where he left off the pain maybe

we can finance committee it is the best of my knowledge was it well no yes sir and you found out about the same time that mr khan had been implicated in that by rail practice of all in september nineteen seventy one

the parents and rob martinez and for me our conversation with the menu you realize that the human know the rule of anticipated that we would have dissipated in anatomy and now i've been engaged in what has been called a couple and if i can answer just slightly different with chairman we did learn that mcgregor at obviously been providing the funds that were used in connection with the activities of the great thing elizabeth

well this obviously relations yes or they are the fourth quarter a memo that you know you could tell that the conversations that haven't been made repeated what mr levey that and that was when he had desecrated and this outbreak may have instigated this talk writer at the us and that is the basis of their representation that mayors do in libya so do

you you're welcome yeah absolutely there was a verdict at one senator in that campaign so close to the election we certainly were voluntary and information well yeah thank you

they were cousins mr mcgrew stated what was going to testify to have a conversation later this year nineteen seventy three eugenio information oh i'm less able the cia into investigation of the mexican law the fbi know certain nerd alert until more recently here one of the

new republic you're welcome mr nasr you're welcome the american people don't want to do anything to do with them as i recall a statement senator and i'm not sure that i can recall specifically i believe the state was to the effect that was nobody in the white house was involved in watergate in a statement that no one in the

white house but i believe it is well like you stated that this goes wrong whoa who is ultimately in the moment and white house and though he didn't like that and i learned that he had to be in the on on committed to relax almost as strong as constantly being advised as to what was going on in connection with that matters at the committee for the reelection fact attended meetings from time to time and he attended that are that the people in

white house what mcchrystal and then i presume yours for a lot of them well then why was the sole function of this relationship with the committee in nineteen seventy nine and when we talk about water being senator those were two occasions on which they were discussed i also testified yesterday that in some of the political meetings that were had a gentle subject matter was discussed how have the president should approach it with respect to the type of porn commissioner special prosecutors and others that these were in large groups you have a conversation

and i know that all want to apologize to the residents were not keeping track of the personnel in the major the extent the watergate matter could have happened this is the point for three years i think officially control activities

and i think that's good fb