1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-19; Part 3 of 5

the piece the idea of the people arrested had all all had a fake id cards which mr hunt had procured for them from the cia and that the although they were incarcerated the identities of the accused was not know he told me that yes in response to my question of howling wind told me that mr libby was some kind of a nut you should have suspected that something like this would happen he regretted that he had not insisted on firing him when he attempted to some weeks or months before so i believe that that was more than

evil inventors difficult to recall is tempering is leno well i came later i didn't have to engage in the middle of something mr martin didn't come to find later that afternoon when you have a private discussion with the mitchell and mr mcgrew mr mcgrew in this group as the details of the events surrounding the great counselor just reminded me that was one other thing that i was informed that time and that was that this was an i'm sorry mary and like there's a lot of previous question about the

only i believe that this was not the first break into the democratic national headquarters it is the source of his information and his first rick and mr libby when you get into a discussion on the events and yes when we say mr mitchell mr mcgrew magruder in the room i and i can't say for sure that all parties are present at all times i can recall a discussion with these gentleman or some of them i don't know

when i learned i learned it soon after we left the airport or as i recall our series of meetings starting eleven and any money in this regardless based solely on schedule which a copy of what you just affirmation ayler the us attorneys read it mr mitchell last event on the schedule was a press conference at one thirteen and i believe that press conference must've lasted a half an hour or so seemingly got back to me beverly hills hotel to thirty to forty five hundred and forty i'm not quite sure after we got back in the car i would doubt it since and there was a driver

was a stranger was a hire car using that the brightest one of the purposes for it was to fix about that had been previously place in the democratic national headquarters that wasn't working i don't recall any more input on the brake and as if that was there that afternoon about the budget that had been approval at tricks and black pants yes i believe that it was totally by mr at the airport hotel in my words one in doing everything and one of the items i think he told me there and then again i'm not certain of the sequence of events but i believe that was the top

after too much we know what any direct refer to could you just explain that i'm like oh can't do the best i can i'd had never heard the expression four and i assume when they told me about it but it was for black advancement i learned however that black advance was a counter advance that was carried on against the opposition candidates or persons acting on their behalf no words an attempt to disrupt the advance schedule of the opposition inform you who had approved the budget for diddy dripping like that oh yes and people leaving

the budget have been approved by mr mitchell and in this little letter that afternoon confirmed yet approved such a budget i like to put it this way this might this revelation i think the subject was disgusted he's even deny the eminently fair i feel it was because i was trying to get the facts i didn't know that's i hadn't heard black advance or dirty tricks and it certainly must have gotten the discussion again that means what is your best recollection as to

whether it was in the room when that was discovered that is my best recollection i'm trying to be fair however when you ask about midi heard all types of meetings took place mr mitchell songs and other places with respect to mr mitchell's office anytime anybody walk in the room as i understand it secretary would lobby and that was a meeting sometimes you walk in to say that there was somebody else was then walk out and you attended a meeting that i hate to characterize formal meeting where he sat down in the negative that he had approved the black advance but that's my best recollection that he was president that i discussed and it usually anyway at you thank you it's b mr martin well in california did you

receive an assignment of them as the metal regarding the watergate matter to be more specific oh i did this little assign you to deal with the legal matters that might arise in connection with the brightly is that while in california that you made several leading i believe that my record show that which i've turned over to the committee and these are records of calls and i turned him to the committee to re elect the president does that i talked to mr lydia on three occasions to look at three occasions the record show three and there were three boys wanna was the record shows was not a color to libya's oil

you remember when he called that place on saturday you're sending half the first time i thought there was to it i believe was on saturday that calls for him to resign that's why this revelation give us a couple of the libyan sunday a couple of comedians sunday twice now can you give us the best recollection you have the substance of these three telephone calls telephone calls a recall is an urgent demand on the part of mr levy that i returned to watch it indicated in that cause i understand that mr mcgrew there was going to

return but he did not want mr mcgrew to return he wanted to return he i was very reluctant to not only reluctantly refused to use the telephone to discuss anything about watergate he did however makes derogatory remarks about mr mcgrew that's all i recall about her still if you go into the second and the third point i had told us to leave that about plants that i've heard that mr mcgrew is going to return i would communicate with mr mitchell and i would let him know and the first time second telephone calls a cause when i call tell him that i was not going to return and that mr mcgrew there and let's have a cure

and what was the flood also telephone callers with respect to car i got from poe more homework call me on sunday i previously testified the scanner these conversations testified originally that they were sunday i was told that they were on saturday i wasn't sure i have not checking records of the call he's got a place on sunday tell me that when it turns out the previous day he said that he wanted me to know or mr mitchell to know that mr libby had told him in his presence a good report received a call from mr mitchell mr mitchell that instructed him to go see him if the crimes and to have missed the crimes get the

watergate burglars released from jail he did not believe that these instructions came from listener joe people literally that he should not contact with the findings that when you realize that he was in fact going to contact kleindienst he went with that mr liddy made contact with the findings of the burning tree country club and that in order to advise with declining steadily he was not pay attention and instantly he said he stood by mr levy so that literally could not see him but that led to findings and shook his head no he told me that as the crimes and affected told us to live at go to hell and scientist at when i'm playing all

i've been called <unk> kleindienst i think i told mr mitchell about mr mitchell was amazing finally michael i then called mr klein begins to tell him that mr mitchell they've given no such instructions mr kline this was told me i believe that he was satisfied that he hadn't given any instructions that said keep that is an adjective away from a i then called mr liddy and reprimanded him told him that mr michel were given no instructions he had the number very narrow part of the attorney general with morrie and i want to read you a portion of this testimony that is

now at eighty nine one of the rock we knew that was the morning on who is dale was a close friend of disability and anyone of us and with the metal mesh with the money i'm crammed with the lady and ask him to see the attorney general the kurds attorney general that as a possibility that mr mccourt to be really get that statement is not true that morning and you suggest any reason why i honestly i don't think mr mcgrew intentionally falsely testified the subject of the lady trip to see mr kleindienst was much discussed mr libby's position wasn't

actually called it i can't fathom the reason that thats what came out in his memory i think mr libby would be the one answer that question it's been amazing i can't imagine why mr mcgrew would say that i was a friend of libyans close friend of libyans would ever use to describe that i had not seen as juliet to my knowledge except possibly in the hallway or want to poison the time i was a committee and i certainly would be classified as offended by anybody that knows me well it was the lady did not acted pursuant to request from you by telephone a new division el as to what the problem is the late night visit london's i can

give you seventy one was asked i was asked to call it to see clients mr mitchell would have instructed me to call climate myself i didn't even intermediary for him is declining support for mr morial when a truly don't want and when you i've been unable to fix that all i can recall my recollection my wife recollection is it was dusk what would place in the neighborhood you go directly in the little oh yes

i say directly a shred of the lessons on the plane for five hours and you know if i knew there's vigilantes has been as james hamilton interrupts his examination of robert martin for lunch and recess we're gonna take a shortbread public television's coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after a pause for a station identification on a bridge to coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service

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its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer as we go back to that hearing senator obama's about to reveal what everyone at the time thought was a resolution to the president's trip takes issue as you say however the settlement was short lived the people call me and as that the president has decided to make available to the committee katey sagal conversations may have inherited wilco witnesses before the committee and which are welcome to the mouth with the

committee is all rise investigate second problem was only that the president will meet with me and it could be a town to meet with me about that and made it at a convenient time next week and the greatest prestigious barclay's so these tapes can be made available to the committee i was gratified this information i think the information they were committed to expedite its investigation and i think it was very wise decision on the part of the press as joan let's join in expressing my great delight at the decision of the president communicated you by secretary

shows i want to commend you as well and members of the committee for handling this matter in a way that permitted this accord in this agreement to take place and it had to leave for war from trying to create a legal confrontation that might have jeopardized the possibility of negotiating a settlement to this controversy it appeared that the white house says are shown it's so spirit of cooperation and response i have nothing but commendation for the committee especially for the chairman for the president negotiating a rather dire situation involving most fundamental concepts that is lead actor separation of power in a way that avoided a confrontation that will apparently give this committee access to parts of extremely important information critical features of the simpler and

more and that has been made and we have been all for me and that investigators have been investigating we cite show unanimity agreement among the committee members that through the steps to be taken and whitmore one local cooperation it's big i'm rachel martin we were

discussing the evening of june nineteen that was present at that meeting this morning based upon my reconstructed recollection i would say mr mitchell is to mr jean and i believe there was one a piece of information now is there a possibility that the yard bird from the press spokesman actually met the audience did not return commitment oh it's possible cause i don't have a recollection of that meeting we begin with the

meeting the only two things i recall that meeting is that there was a need for a statement from may also public information from mr mitchell i don't recall discussing ever participating in it i don't recall what the event was i recall discussing the need for or obtain the resources of a law firm because i believe it was announced that day where we were informed that night that a lawsuit was going to be filed the next morning by the democratic national committee against the committee to reelect president and my best recollection is that there was a discussion as to who we should

replace him and it's you know the responsibility for securing the lawyers for the spurs this year and what's a lawyer to eventually returning for this it retained of mr parkinson in this robot that can all this are unable local authorities of the us at this meeting was any discussion as to burning all a life destroying agents don't follow any other sensitive thought not in my presence and i never heard the word gemstone this investigation the sheer came out i will say that i left that meeting rather really i wasn't very long i made numerous telephone calls at night so for my appointment calling local council people and i knew getting recommendations for lawyers late in the

evening but i called a number of lawyers and talk with them about the relative merits of different law firms have different lawyers do you remember this question of all of us to follow as opposed to the destruction since the nose for portions of the testimony today and distillers just wanted to of yesterday and received comments were from the testimony phase one nine one three in one nine one four these days if you have a meeting and that evening the evening of june nineteenth when you came back to washington an estimate of how the us needs to mitchell flew back that money with mystical room with the market mechanism that mr dean of the morning to myself and the general discussion again was that well we're going to do about the problem it was again we had very little

information we did not of course know what type of investigation within the head and we talked about types of alternative solutions one solution was recommended in which i was to of course destroyed victims don't fall so i called my operas and these days that solution came up as a result of that meeting well i think yes it was generally concluded that that file should be immediately destroyed and narrating from mr roose testimony yesterday at pages we're five eight nine or fire nine oh there's daschle said there's the group that i asked what he should do about these sensitive files with ruby a certain as to date did he get a response to that as i remember there was response from lisbon that all that it might be a good idea if mr mcgrew had a fire in a previous to

that testimony the schoolroom had testified that view at me these orphans' and i've read of the testimony that we've let me refresh your recollection at what i heard testimony images redness to dean's testimony those discussions took place and i think that wouldn't require certification that have taken place on a way of any testimony promised the room and west of the river that you left the meeting before destruction of gemstone fall i don't think anybody asked him that question and i don't think anybody asked is true when i ride maybe they get i don't know that you know no statement by the group or rubio or otherwise that you were not present at this meeting when the destruction of the general population

ms maureen did you indeed several days following things have an occasion for an interview with the late pianist and who else and the civil war roots fifa or five nine thought that this meeting was on june fourteen you can clear in that testimony no stated there is doubt in my mind as to what the date of that meeting i originally in response to questions put to me by the us attorneys fix that later that meeting as the twenty first or the twenty seconds they told me that the meeting took place on the twentieth we finally settled on the twentieth and

twenty first and i believe i told your committee that was the twentieth twenty first i'm checking my records i would have to say in the meeting took place on the morning of again i could be mistaken the morning of june the twenty first one is the annual rock morgan that indicate do that on the work she did which has been turned over your committee i know that i got a call from gordon liddy and it coincides with my earliest recollection that i did not meet with mr levy at least on the first day of my return i'm not saying that that's an absolute i just my recollection

was the twenty first twenty seconds and i think have testified that it could be the day twentieth and twenty first but i would have to say that that was the point person is that your recollection of that meeting with disabilities who plays in the morning peace is based upon that call it looks to be the first call that i noted and my recollection is he said he was leaving that day for los angeles i notice in your own way and one eleven and one it well that appears to have been

canceled out with this heavy load on the morning of the twenty first guest to you that perhaps admitting to me that crossed my cousin indicated cancellation i think you'll find that cross are going every monday wednesday and friday it's post exercise i know that there's one for instance i don't think i met with the gentleman twice on that day one is that it only scheduling and the fact that a note of my book doesn't mean i kept the point i'm trying to give you the best my best recollection is out of this meeting

that's really odd he was reluctant he wanted to read someplace else and we met and just to lose a partner and i believe that more than anything else was the basis for my belief that it was mr doe <unk> the range of them at union indicated we could meet in his apartment the foreign element in your own words to you in some detail tell us what happens and tell us what information that was really important to you

forget it we really came into the room franzen yes mr rew is whether or not have a radio just to ruin the kid radio which was on the corner of the living room mr liddy went over and turn the radio are and asked me to sit by the radio in the chair he sat in a couch as i recall it was next to an end table at the radio czar he apologized to me by saying something to the effect that it's not that i don't trust you that this conversation can't be recording place on the possibly something in the room

and again i'm going to have to say that i don't recall a sequence of events in which you related the sense to me but i do call it he said that he wanted to hire me as his lawyers his personal attorney i told him that i was acting as attorney for the committee that i could not believe myself that responsibility to represent him he then said it was imperative that he be able to talk to me in confidence and that under no circumstances that i disclose what he told me i told him that since he was an employee of the committee and i was acting us attorney for the community to talk to me as a client to a lawyer and that i would maintain his confidence but that i would have to be at liberty to disclose what he told me in his trilogy the first

openly gay marriage harr one of the things that he told me was that he had a message for mr hunt mr hunt of felt that that was the committee's obligation to provide money to get his men out of jail at that time these people were incarcerated in a dc jail i was interested in finding out what had occurred and i interrogated him as to the events for the evening of january sixteen morning of june sixteenth morning in the seventies and you know the tomato what had occurred about the break in and told me that they had planned as i recall to break into the mcgovern headquarters that same night about the arrest of three

that frightens me indicated to me that there was nothing to fear because the only person i could identify mr libby was mr courtney mr mccourt would not divulge his identity that the cuban americans were all soldiers who were in the cia with his trademark since the bay of pigs and that they would never under any circumstances disclose ms johansson definitely and then they have nothing to fear in that regard i told him that based upon what he related to me and the events of that evening about one of which included as i recall his sitting on the shoulders of

one of the men at a distance i don't recall some three hundred feet or three hundred yards shooting out the light behind the democrat senate committee headquarters pointed out to him that he was adamantly against her to be able to identify him pointed out that he had spent the toll was he spent some time in the room with these people in a hotel room at that teams would be all over the place and he kept insisting that there was no chance he will be trying to convince him he would be identified that's supposed to give himself up and wait for them to rescue

sophie scott is a possibility he did after selling discussion indicated it was possible he could be arrested that is true the because of the news accounts of the arrest and they parrot bungled effort that the possibility that someone in the head at a mine that they would be arrested to invest the committee to reelect president he discovered this completely by saying that this group had been operating together for some considerable period

of time that they were all real poles that they had engaged in numerous jobs and when i asked him what kind of jobs recently pulled to write under your nose and he said no invaded the office of the psychiatrist dr ellsberg and that they were the ones who got the to do about it now with respect to it disappeared ask him because of the elves or break in what if anything they had obtained he told me that they had obtained nothing that surged all the files and couldn't find his

record i asked him one whose authorities operating and i wish to be very careful here because i don't know that he used the name of the president but the ones he did use were clearly meant to imply that he was acting on express authority of the president denied states with the assistance of the central intelligence agency i make some notes of o i asked him what information they had obtained he told me that kelly told me that the purpose of making the century really with this entry was not his doing that neither he nor mr hunt thought it was a good idea that they had obtained it nothing from the book that they had previously implied it in

place he came from that somebody at the democratic national committee was talking to somebody at the democratic national committee was talking to the people so a person at the committee to re elect the president that industry can't or against the injury that caused the destruction what's interesting

i think i was saying that to explain that neither he felt that anything additional entries would be fruitful but that he had made many untrue at the insistence of mr mcgregor i recall oil again inquiring as to why the stupid adventure seemed amelia rose ridiculous or as a politician have political experience that i couldn't understand what they would hope to get out of the democratic national headquarters before they even had a candidate much less afterwards party headquarters at least republican party headquarters are very

still very disparate time you know he could not answer the question for me is both what he was operating under i was asked the question about the budget this morning i respond to both to you and to the chairman and i state that i had a whole a committee at least may be i

hear you i'm on the train i went to the jail i'm not familiar with the secretary it will be able to identify them so i just assumed that global markets rally and a law and he made a statement which i reported to the committee and the news media are homeless of the microphone and i'm a talent and be occasion when the counsel white house thousands of commons that animal mr gao

investigation was made and that's complicated and say this show so they're not the stated here that most of the conversation so all i have is obvious ball a mile as stevie a place phone call as follows that all humans have no reason not vote this way because i have outpaced demand and i went through he was a realist and he had no conversations with me today the level that it was somebody yelled at they'll the conversation in the region about telephone is all it

was a rally calling us to tell me that maybe something about the white house revealed witnesses are a concern oh yeah if you control oh my god not helpful not impartial and we save our house counsel is that the president has the rest of the committee on station in the recent decision about tomorrow so all

we saw someone the person now and there's a reason it would be a fantastic your doubtful whether any of that had to do with the greatest days he hopes it's been perpetrated on the committee the fact that it received in the capital palma committee room i would say in that credence to the call first question i can

fully understand the situation to transpire i would say for the record however that the banks that i expressed and the admiration i expressed or the combination of both parties still stands as the advance payment on what i hope will still happens to be a combination of this settlement permitted members of that still stands and out like an expanded into the numbers and the opposite a wide receiver i like that this week ms

martin i believe a minute ago we were talking about what business the lady told you about the budget that he was operating under i think they're responding to earlier this morning i mentioned the budget matter in a conversation with mr mitchell president in california it's possible that subject came up after my discussions with mr libby because mr libby told me and it may have been for the first time that he was operating under a budget approved by mr mitchell and the white house during that june twenty first meeting if it is it

twenty years and just make the rocket clemmons body and did mr liddy also say too that the operation said he had been involved in such as the health their periphery and eddie as you recall i can say he's the state that's true that and that's the impression he left with me that they had been approved by the price ever do impressions yes an inability to mention the uk trading documents are yes i'm trying to demonstrate to me that there was no way of praising him he told me he had

shredded everything bit of evidence that would have linked him this operation as well as our other operations he told me he'd even gone wrong yes i have a hobby i should say of cutting so from the various hotels he had taken the survivors often say this opens shep and shredded also properties he also told me that during this process he had shredded a one hundred dollar bills we had in his possession that were new and serialized we exalted the content of this meeting that like yes mr mcgrew reminded me of another like the tone was quite a bit that morning in may seem comical mouth certainly didn't seem comical to us at the time he did make a

statement that the committee could be assured that he would never talk honestly doubted that the business who testified we would have we would just telling what corner to stand on he was ready to be assassinated what'd you do with this information i went immediately i shouldn't say that as soon as i could get access to mr mitchell i disclosed to him i may not have disclosed all of us to remember it and you think it was the same day that you reported yes mr mike counsel advised me that despite my notes i neglected to tell you a very important part of one another in explaining to me that

they weren't purely professional he told me that was the planet of the bay of pigs the chief planner zahra call that he was extremely popular i think he said like a garden implement cuban community of miami that this was an explanation of why these cuban americans would follow him to death and that alone would disclose anything as far as they were concerned that are absolutely loyal work with him for a number of years i've been working with them in these operations that i don't wish to bring anybody else into it by implication what he said he one of his

friends in the cuban committee and one of the leaders was a particular person i'm not sure if i used the identification or maybe identifying wrong person because it's step meetings i heard some a staff member start mentioning some names are not even sure that the person was the character that i described he was extremely wealthy and i told mr libby i did not think mr mitchell would improve the user committee funds to bail out the defendants a nation so advice was to hunt and that seemed to me that i have mr hunt and social connections and the miami community at that they should look to that community a love for the bail money when you spoke with a little bit to transmit this request for whaling commission included among other things

mr mitchell they told me that under no circumstances would bail money be forthcoming and for me to call mr liddy intel and i did so we tell us the rest of your conversation with mr meggs i don't want to repeat anything that you worked almost elated but i would like to know what was the myth that you are it's bold he asked me if mr liddy i might say that mr mitchell heard the sincerely shocked as i was when i got this age here's amelia lester liddy had disclosed any other

of the activities of this group that had been arrested and mr hunt minister and himself and i i told him that he had not had not disclosed any other state it had approved a medical disability operation i don't think he did you know he made no comment in any way as to whether or not he had approved the budget not at that time that discussion took place later discussion and whether he approved a budget that was like well the discussion that is done out in that vein that took place when i confronted mr mcgregor i asked

mr mcgrew in the presence of mr mitchell i believe the next day soon thereafter as i could how much money he had given mr liddy in addition i forget jolie to the entire conversation i asked him whether he directed mr liddy to go in there he denied it i asked him how much money he had given mr liddy he said he had authorized was too slow to give mr luddy forty thousand dollars i do i asked him what he thought the forty thousand dollars was for seemed amiss as sizeable sum of money based on that you expressed the same concern