1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-25; Part 2 of 3

a piece be meeting between them which is what mr out apparently one of them in the water but just the calls and talking with william bratton who was then an unvarying this message of support yesterday raised the cautionary warnings that if anybody from the white house sat down with us to the situation like that there was an inevitable opportunities for misunderstanding as to the purpose of the meeting as differences that might or might not be given some clancy was

obviously a forefront of everybody's mining industry as one of the things which was a potential danger people at the meeting in our previous conversation that i have and indicated that was back in july was a lesser indicated to them that the substance of that conversation which was that the president wanted no one in the white house too get into this whole area of clemency with anybody involved in this case and shirley not make any assurances that he also said that he was sure that he could avoid that pitfall have a have a conversation he was advised by describing to either take notes or a sentimental most of the conversation that he can reconstruct the conversation of it the question never came up and that's when this because we had a subsequent meeting where and before we go to the sense in the

region would you be a little more explicit in your testimony is to follow the discussion and roosevelt executive clemency who brought it up and said quite honestly that the january third mean i can't say who brought about senator we were going over the people potential problems that could come from mr golson having a plant that either witnessed her or his attorney it had been his farm tractors not to happen because the implication there because frankly everybody knew they were closed but they had been close friends and a lot of suspicion that some obstacles and might be implicated in the watergate because he was a close friend of this for months and has to go slowly over backwards do everything he could to avoid getting any credence or credibility to that suspension so

when we get into the lead decision that you have contact with i think it was done things that you're writing you really ask whether you're willing to do that sometime in the future and you know where we were there was conjecture but it was and that it was in the realm of what kinds of problems are you live within five and you better be ready for this and i look out and what's what a responsibility i think both the night have some mental reservations about the desirability of this ministry colson have a very strong friendship were so to speak and here was this is really moving letter a and he was saying i just can't leave his fellow without hearing from now how we go about five million have a meeting on gen general for the next

subject so now that included attorney general findings and it had nothing to do and i don't think it was ever meant to i see you had a meeting to on the word forthwith the prose that you discuss why good in any fashion i don't recall senator i know that would have been my first meeting with the president after i came back about two week absence i guess it is about an hour of that i think of primaries but i will say that with the president mr polman then there came in about forty five minutes of the meeting and i believe that was a sensation i'm just libya i'm having accumulated their month long absence i just don't have any recollection of specific

talks go well i do but there are and they're not in my custody and the pole like an elephant and and so a copy the contents and then from somewhere crying and then regurgitate it say it is a laborious process because we as you know are not in a position to make any notes or are not so easily the most of the meals i have a ball i can all i have is the presidents long let's turn to january fifth know the meeting would even as a symbol i don't know whether that is the meeting where mr golson reported on this meeting with mr button or whether it was on the fifth of the

month there were two meetings with both lean and also following the january thirty my recollection is that at some point in time he had met with that and i mean i sat down again calls were out that was what the conversation or why don't you use the committee were generally fire were related he gave us based on those kinds of assurances that he had not made any sort of commitments that he thought that mr bittman had very guardedly man over the may date rather long you know memorandum for his vile about the conversation and all subjects and happiness being either at that meeting or i

guess subsequently there very shortly there mr dean testified before this committee and was republicans chose to vote as a result of this meeting that occurred on january third gentlemen vocals and to give that major of the policy would be awful fifth of what he testified would you comment on the us or out that is a story that had an out of town tryout like many of his previous episode is i want what we see is that story appeared in one of the news magazines on the newspaper in a certain version and then when this began testifying at a slightly different version but the differences were extremely mature this is one of those the

version which was that i had jumped out from the may run out presumably to the president's office come back and said fine fellows it's all set you've got an that had its problems because the course of the meeting which he was referring to take place until seven o'clock in the evening and the president's law to make very clear the fact that i had no meetings with the president that day and so it's actually the very front of the story in the media one why now when mr bean testifies this story was well we had this meeting and this was discussed and then i heard a day or two later that mr ottman had given assurances domestic calls that he had checked this and that it was ok now that likewise isn't the last

because be on a meeting that i had with a person as shown by the president's lobbying by my love was a meeting which involve other people at that hour three or two on the on the fourth of january and that the problem was in the meeting the entire time kissinger was in the meeting a substantial portion of the time and i can assure you senator that executive clemency was not discussed the very you know to get this matter with president nixon i knew what their marching orders were from from july and i particularly you know because that was my that was my strong feeling which he'd ratify about that this was a close up of that we must never get there and that would be that it would be the surest way of having the actions of these bundlers including for the president for there to be any kind of entertainment a conversation with a polite or otherwise the testimony is that john dean dillon and troops yes sir white swanson the out of town

tryout in one state you know that was after you polls the question though that they've won clemency to and his testimony is that you serve low level goal for others also something that other that was the other one i have a i have the strongest conviction that we must never discuss executive clemency either customers never discussed about any of us must never discussed it with any outside for just the kind of reason that we're seeing in this situation now i didn't have

even a scintilla of a hint that anyone was making it an approach for instance were the whole thing was a it was a total revelation and a monumental or my mind first interest he's said to colson also discussed this american diplomacy with the press and the president says yes and you can offer incentive plans of course i'm paraphrasing that many conversations yeah you do you had any conversations with no know went when the ankles and i talk about it

i went through the substance of mind to like conversation with friends and one of the things that i mentioned was not in point in terms of mr golson but his gender was eleven that anybody on october at about the same outsiders or spending that it's just as i think it should be closed as far as president i always i always hesitate to ask a question like this and i'm trying to reverse this particular area because you have a very clear memory about it certainly was talk about it and i like as you why do you think john dean the president threw urine samples as he's doing it i'm speculating here's an episode with mr mccourt which comes out for mr

mccourt back through coaching johnny justified i don't the last explanation or not but it certainly was suggested to me as i was sitting at this table spending less promote human being and that some of these babies original word recess and some contaminants recent years was the house the testimony of course the areas that didn't have a conversation with you about this and you made some suggestions about disposing of the papers that were in

the briefcase my recollection is that your prize we're listening to the sixties that did you get a us about this meeting that was a meeting at five five which was also offended by other people and should be susceptible of determination from independent what's up to collect an assumption in your question senator i did not know the contents of this report say except in the most general terms i was totally i can't say who told me that there was a physical and a tape recorder and a number of documents some of which have nothing to do with watergate that were reportedly sent out i was the thing to look at when i saw the set as a few of them were sealed an open ended right

the conversation has to be way the probabilities of thousands of rice had run out for listener limerick has to be weighed against i think the witnesses who were in the meeting on it we had a meeting for two purposes on the nineteenth which included calls and a staff secretary and they can also on the white house that the meeting was thor as a state trooper just want to try and determine what the facts were about power on some points but which was very much on at that point in time because of some lack of documents or some confusion about women's place in that city the other purpose was to talk about what to do about the site which had been found on the premises and apparently

had things in it that related to our problems if not the rest of the league prime suspect the instructions which we've read about it that they were that the number of people should be present at the opening of that say we knew we had to have somebody from the tsa as they have over the city but in addition to that i suppose that mr dean the president can take us and then i think after i suggested that the secret service agent the president of circumstances because we were breaking into a safe in the white house and so that was really kind of working on it now having intercourse my purpose in doing that was once an extraordinary procedural i thought there are many people who later on to explain what actually happened to i was concerned

about the custody of these documents a chain of evidence the perfectibility of approval if the time came that there were important not just in the war on liability so that was not that it was not believe that same day here's what it now it seems to me that it would have been a fall to suggest that the briefcase atomic war or that these papers be thrown in the river something of us out there was in the store also a suggestion of thread i don't think in my life that i have suggested that anybody the fretting is just not something that i have ever resorting to do under any circumstances the proposed anybody in any circumstance

that said we have we have a great disposal system at the white house if you really want to get rid of that you learn that you sing about women's never open again and it goes into a furnace and that's the end look at that i have no recollection of that kind of a conversation it was a suggestion to him as we discussed what to do about some papers which he told me about in say that really should not be late again we have to come back to work the ipod and he was genuinely concerned and what he explained to me i share his concern many of these documents were simply wholesale for the washington field office of the fbi that we would be reading about it in time magazine in very short order

to grow and so we came up with this idea of turning them over the act or a person and i certainly agree and i thought that was an idea another that come up at this meeting when supposedly the deep six or conversation i gather that that meeting was supposed to open the meeting when others were there it wouldn't it wouldn't necessarily know that name because the die was cast that we had you know appointed bishops and what was the opening statement that happened even now i mean i don't know at least different ways when he finished the point first amendment yesterday the point person in the afternoon i think that i can say to yours that i

certainly would not have ended for close to the truth let's get to the year of the great quite understand her testimony an hour as the dean there and raise the sense of the papers that were there a lot of people and the version of the star from his the spelling bee says the government he agonized for several days over what to do this situation i was not involved in a lot of conversations with him about it he was caught a couple of days during this interval because the river was flooding allies turkey

and that his house was near a river and so he was just he was just out of employer couple days during that particular variant i mean moving his furniture out of sandbags and so you came back and that would be one and i certainly concur in the suggestion seemed to me like a good way of making sure that that instantly was very alarmed this was years ago and i said yeah either that i would get a great income or certainly wasn't very was coming so that day forty of another point and why did he just bring them over one

mr handler would say that hillary had been made and we would put an end to this evidence or it changes many did come already to bring the documents and writing in you and you have that one we were there he said that i'd like to give you these it was it was this sense of it was that these were campaigns can say that were politically sensitive and we just couldn't stand the heavenly that he proposed an early october before not because racing understanding the setting and the end i must speak and he turned the documents over to an unnamed and what do you say nothing during this hall meeting i probably chimed in on the subject of leaks which was then head of a love was a theme that i was having witnessed the very arrow and the vote that as i testified before a i don't recall the

specific language that was huge but the sense of a conversation between the three hour long conversation was that the proposed tax rate taking delivery of these was to avoid the leak problem with all of us recognize that the europeans well i seem to recall some testimony about to grow by someone even the interview these documents should never see the light of day you'll recall i don't think you know wow i don't know there was testimony about that that is not a phrase that i've ever that i never testified to i don't recall a phrase be huge it was just a very sensitive documents you know a major event for a temporary sentimental and so i think they were politically was and it was very clear that they were they had political overtones rather than

it's a sensitive from a national security standpoint is there any discussion of that meeting that would be a grave thought to be or destroy the cancer and the reason that i'm positive senator is what i heard or that he had in fact destroyed and i was just it was just nothing in the compilation of the people in that room and that would have led to that conclusion you have that idea communication with mr gray about these documents after that meeting and read out that the committee that was in april of this year we had a conversation with president taft made a telco mr gray it was a sunday night and it was the fifteenth of april ten fifteen pm

well i was in the presidency of the office and he had had a meeting that day with the findings the subject of these documents came up at that meeting and the president asked me to call <unk> great and find out what the documents were where they were sort of the great was not home when he got home he called back then we completely conversation in the present i told him at that time that the delivery and the subject of this conversation that has been apparently told me embrace it we can say that

and i said well he gets it and he said if he says out of the nine and i thought that it isn't a disincentive for the mile obviously it's not something you can i i recall the episode very clear we say he got the backing up once that he wouldn't say it started out and i said something rather confused and say goodbye and hung out and report to the president that he had in fact just old navy destroyer that we talk about the implications of that and i said i don't think that i completely closed so it doesn't

happen again claire enough your suggestions not just want to have a kid and i would have no choice of our effort to say that i was present at the time the documents were delivered he's the second half but and a moment senator an ally will inquire about an alleged job offer to the judge in the ellsberg get right now we're taking off public television's coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after a break for station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs and public broadcasting service

fb the pay the pain and that continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select

committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim

lehrer as we go back to the caucus rooms and gurdon has a few words for the spectators i'm really questioning witnesses and that's

the problem german restaurant a few days ago mr alexander rybak you describe in great detail the electronic or no recording devices which have been established and install a lot of people the executive office building and elsewhere yesterday don't know hollywood one one tapes were mentioned you and you are certain that these tapes were made public they would support europe that contention will support you in a sense that's what

the president of the united states he has no intention to release officially the station ms vivian it really is which no longer the white house wanted arlen of the case including an indispensable evidence to prove innocence this would be sufficient to or defensive move for the dismissal of the indictment well as i

tried to indicate yesterday i've been in the other the other side of a problem here or i was sitting by the president tried to approach the problem which involved the rights of individuals and also the interests of the country and very frequently don't own stock i understand the question and so i'm trying and as you've indicated that the tapes may well require evidence that would prove your innocence could you use this president friends and have the case dismissed that's a question some effect my rights or someone else's

rights and i think you would be sensitive that it is not something that has occurred to me and i they simply say it's not anything that i've talked to anyone in the white house and it's it's a new it's a new wrinkle as far as i'm concerned i started to respond in terms of my interest which is not i think i have never discussed with animals are the most positively will also the

legal profession in nineteen seventy eight it was great nineteen seventy three you call and biden visited us yes sir well precisely in the discussions

yes but i can't say that i have although as jasmine and i were watching the president came out of his office and came over and really just for what was the nature of the conversation and my conversations are like go back and say you know the conversation i might in order to put him in seven years it was evelyn great nomination was not going to be sustained an icon as it happened before president's instruction i'm a

fan of the fact that judge run was going to be coming the sentiment for me the thirty thousand forces all part of the crew of that meeting he was a very enthusiastic advocate judge been nominated it was degraded not be the conversation which i haven't judged burn unintelligible was substantially less ice a judge i have asked for president call you i have to ask to discuss with him a federal appointments which is not judicial unfair i don't know whether this is an appropriate time for us to have a conversation like this because i don't know what the present situation in your knee impression i had from the newspapers was the case was

in its last stages of a reader and so volatile and completed so and i didn't know at that point what the what were the case really was what you aware of the point of the judge but not rendered his decision well it was a jury case so i said this is not a conversation is urgently need not have it now but at some point in time i would like to have this conversation judges but i see no reason why we couldn't talk right away well if that's the case what is really has been a fight i use a lot of them that was a slice it and that's what happened to seven point for walking

in new and he came down about we came into my office i said again i am sensitive to the fact that you are trying an important law school i've proposed and if at any point a subject arises did you feel in any way impinges upon ability to fairly dry because you just turn around and walk away from me and as i said before this is not something that needs to be discussed right now we can we can talk about later without credit he said fine was proceed on that basis so we did it perhaps five minutes or just of the conversation was that advice to him that it was the president's conclusion that he was going to have to resubmit

the nomination record the fbi that he was interested in knowing whether or not just burn and an interest in the position obviously any decision on the president's party as to the nomination finally be the president but that it would be helpful to know others and the judds indicated very strong interest the domain the number of his experiences with the fbi have to say he had been a us attorney you have a number of experiences he had some ideas of the same ideas so he gave an impression of very clear as we walk

back as they say the president came out of his office that you know the judge apparently was introduced to and we chatted just very briefly not about the case obviously but about the us wasn't pleased their conversation lasted perhaps thirty seconds and the president back in his office we returned to my office where i said well i think we have to leave this is that i now know you have an interest and that obviously the president has to reserve his options completely as to whether there ever is an african you're not so that was the that was the end of that conversation the next day there was a second day ahead of my self if you like the next afternoon good afternoon by

sectarian or having a conversation on to say that the judge was until i took a phone call he said i've been giving a lot of thought to our conversation yesterday and i like that there'd be available to be happy to see one one would like well i know i said that there is probably leaving after more to go back to watch out when we were given in the next couple days is yes i would be available on sat on i'm planning to be in selma saturday would be possible for us to meet their side he lives apart from what we need and he said ah so we made a point to meet the ocean avenue in montana's reduced by the park on saturday in the middle of the afternoon which we

get we had a short while during which he again evidence is very strong impulse that he did not trust me for an awful when we're finished with a conversation which again about i have no more than ten minutes but i took this as an occasion when he wanted to restate his very strong interest to me in the position it was it was more symbolically it was significant from the standpoint on this all the time when johnson was the presiding judge in the case of united states versus russo tells us at a movie and it was dayton's a new information and the president has now come of the case was

more than help you really get into a situation this was a case of major spoilers you want to be a normal circumstances he still felt it was a couple people just make this no vision thing it was unethical i can't accept your question some of your assumptions and so you very very easily stated that i was the instigator of the burglary a doctor i guarantee you

ventilation i can assure you that there was no such moment in your mind at the time of his of history and i'm sure that is also true of the attorney general managers through the point we were trying to get the best man that we could be the director of the fbi and that was this on singular moment thousands of others i head anyway infringed upon to bear in mind i was not in the capacity of an attorney i haven't been in the capacity of an attorney for some three years ago when i was a member of the executive branch of the president's agency in this

matter and my fortune and this was purely minister i dont accept the suggestion that i was an officer of the court so to speak in this in this that i simply wasn't now i take some comfort from the fact that i did this with a full knowledge of the attorney general united states who have it although all the facts which i did not you was aware that you are on the irish it to the judge i mean he was aware precisely what it was or precisely what i was going to get one show where that this would present an impression of impropriety i was not what we are sensitive about this why was a sensitive about warren well i was i was sensitive as anyone would be because i was not personally as familiar with the progress of that trial at that time that

you evidently were from the arena to practice i had another judge to tell me he was in possession of all i wouldn't know where you were what's surprising shot at the reaction of the public and the reaction of the legal profession when this was made know it and i think it is because he was not going to explain and you still maintained that the attorney general a new and calling obama just that nothing on ethical i specify cannon did you realize i've not taken advice on this and i have not been able to determine if the animals that it was general terms some rather vague feeling that people that

without belaboring labor well everybody very grateful to you for this response and i appreciate the sensitivity of approaching any city i don't imagine that a federal judge in the country doesn't have a case involving united states government before and i've gotten somewhere in the process of law it may be that the logical implications of what you suggested but the executive branch position in this case well you mean you it reminds me a little center the story of a rural clinic at the picture of the wall and the poll says what what's so special about that and he says that's the only ordinary about the parade every place in a cinematic isn't it

the extraordinary case i'm sure i don't i think that approaching this as i get talking with the attorney general talking with the judge in the terms of like i had this about as much as i needed it and still carry out the instruction that i have you had conversations with the judge on two separate occasions they should and expand your knowledge of the break in and the cubans on the cancer was injured but i think that would have been extraordinary about their lives well there's one of course was that i was an airstrip injunction as to that entire national security said what second for a member of the executive branch the couple sitting just about a matter affecting a

trial before him at that time without going through the counsel of the president or the attorney general or the late filers involved in the case it seems to be one of them if it was the farthest thing from my mind and it's your testimony this meeting well certainly i can only speak for my moment there was no reason to eat

most of the public opinion leadership well i disagree sir didn't give the impression of the public that an attempt was made to compromise judge or well if it were given it was certainly also ours i have a question an indicator the judge that he was not engage in this conversation that i would rely entirely on his own knowledge of the state of oregon and i don't know what else to un observers yesterday you told the committee that you were not able to discuss the activities of the special investigations all because the president of the road to the highest security

classification be applied to the activities that my record stating your possessions i'm not sure that that was the reason that i intended no sign that that is an important fact that provision is also available the new president of the united states because of the victories and relations will be the most vital national security concern i get included in in that i don't know about those activities and they certainly had nothing to do with the activities of especially in orange sure that was the libyans weren't all nasr one hit wonder in testimony the other day about libya taken on a task force that ever heard of that of course i heard about what's going to bend the sometimes mexico and i don't believe that i ever heard that before that

and i think there's a lot of confusion about whether libby's participation in this special unit so far as i know after the buildings are family this nation india in investigations ongoing supervision agencies by the special you know i'm not aware of any specific activities either one of them all about the eighth or ninth of september something of that would've been a full participation of july twenty fourth of september ninth at some place unknown do you recall recall what religion wisconsin now white house horrors to testify that he discussed this with you great teacher i i had never heard that phrase he's been telling

their latest problem and while the miners described was this involving was deliberate i i don't believe that i have ever discussed that it disappears well i believe that he was not immediately after the july i scheduled a series of apartments with cabinet officers that mr grover mr young around and interviews and to explain what the special unit was designed a new revelation of the stimulation activities i also met with attorney general

mitchell mr grover mr young for just that purpose and that would have been played in july or early in august of nineteen seventy one so i think mr mitchell's recollection on this genocide ideology or you're justifying marriage you became aware of all living with this year and just people bought recently as well as a few days few months ago an ability simply went out of my one out of my grades those three he's feeling great meaning that i referred to here the other day i think libby was in sometime in the month of october when he was battling staff were with regard to straight domestic policy were honest approach involving organizations justice the poor i think that's the only

way subsequent when the feeling great tended to disassociate itself politically and admonish those who were responsible yesterday the president like i was i have no reason to because i don't think he was the president was right for me the first specific recollection i have discussing the subject with this special special human activity with the president was in march of this year i may have had some conversations with

wanted to do something they were punished but greece's ability as far as isis have made a complete difference in the sense that they were operating according to what they believe to be authorization the reaction that i had this and i was surprised my initial reaction was to fall back from their request which i suggested that will be done immediately and it wasn't and he was the president i think you have at that

point in time there were two arguably gotten engaged to have imposed some discipline to have them arrested something of his that have been suggested as as one of the altar obviously the operative was to pursue this national security investigations there's this week we could possibly avoid you get into these conflicting duty situations you know senator feinstein you have to you have to take the main thing that it is more important to the country and not do the other thing it's occurred to me the other native very much analogous to the alarm of this committee where you're confronted with the conflicting rights of individuals who may be prejudiced by this whole process on the one hand and what you perceive to be the larger national anthems and you know it was all that conflict

in favor of a larger national interest even though some individuals may be harmed in a long haul by the process and i didn't understand at the same time when you find yourself in a bite of that law sometimes it's hard to explain for my mindset standpoint your evaluation of what the more importantly the larger national interests are was in finding out all about who in under what circumstances is a vital national security is a top secret documents without about that and also include the prosecution of popular will and that wasn't that was really not what this was about that really not what this is about the justice department was well under way and that and this was a particularly fine how will get out that people benefit

of many abortions must have just one question you have to maintain and all of his service in the white house especially in those activities evolve and around the water you did because why mr attorney general of the united states side of your resignation as evidenced by a president nolan has been well i suppose that was a the landmark at that time and the un is not aware of the president's considerations and motives at the time if you're a clean water before you

eat a virus or end of what it is is that is don't pour well as a matter fact the proposal for me resigning from the government at the time that i talk with him on the telephone and i'm trying to remember that they would have been the heat already leading up to it i was given the need to answer charges and do all these other reason why i don't think the president was quite content with that time it was all about and i talk we felt that from our perspective standpoint that was simply not realistic was not adequately the proposed to the president that we make a plea bargain rather than ever wear an

unimaginative you have more knowledge of the cover up and you for the maintain that the mastermind of the cover up was john was leaving for well i won't speak for myself i had no working any better i'm not here to make charges against other people as you say this is not a this is not an accusatory for now i think the evidence will speak for itself when it's all in and then either you or public or someone will be in a very good position for the site to answer an insect i would also the president of the united states will release those tapes because it will help them clear the evidence are like very much to pay attention to perceive the potential

to power within it the justification the i have a question i believe you have incorrectly that your response was the cooperation from the fbi and have the opposition of the rapper who announced just now the special unit itself was created in response to a strong feeling by the president that the white house had to more

closely supervised the departments the agencies their efforts to do their own job inside the departments and agencies in plugging leaks finding out who were disseminating these documents and so so there the origin of that and the original reason for being well it was not originally but then getting information it was a last resort to use these two people who were in the inner to do this one particular investigatory job because information

nineteen seventy one sometimes it is the president of the record that you examine in that circumstance is the many reasons to follow yes about forty one nation our day including the seventeen thousand and eighty

ms smith yes individuals if you can communication information would you say that this is very clear i don't think

i think all of us who have experience to recognize the letters of the sky we're at a map that he had frequently are justifying shortfall in europe i don't know whether this was when addressing what this was but it was obvious that the president had with the probe request shaken up a director and i do i will say that over a period of a couple of months is the result of having appointed the special unit and the result of having the president having told was the rumor that he was having to resort to sending to people out there from the white house this early in the process i don't know

what was it i do have a very vivid recollection the conversations around this period of time with both his pro industry that's where the problem of the bureau's lethargy was discussed the reason for the president's call and and a lot lighter minister who was because of this legend and i don't think it's not only possible to make the case that the bureau was just knives to be posed doing everything it showed ripest fruit law and the right name even under the fact that i was over on the attorney general asking him and then the attorney general coming back to me and say what were our listeners is all i think no matter where it looked like somebody get in but i think it's there in annual revenues

the council suggests that it might be well to know if there's any other morales contemporaneous course wants a reply back from mr crow or even indicate whether he agreed with the assumptions faded hero that would set this moral lesson in contracts i know people in the fire and particularly a device that's familiar to those who have seen the president i don't think that somebody owes one of the requirements for agencies you need a justification

but stale tactics it's all stuff that's been in the fall and put together a big package and the senate are hoping that you're going to make you think that everything's ok or that it's a it's a it's a thing i've seen dozens and dozens of them what would you advise them that every time a department or an agency of this government falls short of it rather than move ahead of that agency or department we set up a similar function on a secret basis that were nodding and i think in retrospect that i think you will recognize that all through this proceeding we keep coming back to your crops i think in retrospect that that the administration would have been far know if mr hoover didn't retire earlier free at this episode because many many of the problems that

we were as a result of mr hoover's very very sincere and he was he was alerting this syrian patriotic when he was certainly fix these things and it made operation very different now when you run across a situation where you have your retirement at that time that is politically sensitive and difficult sometimes the decisions may postpone me and when that happens then you simply have to find other ways of doing things i'm saying twenty twenty one was an investigation well

it is the line that i don't seem precious mr mark his name in there and i don't know what the list that letter refers to marxism amazon he says if you want you can turn will proceed with interviews of all remaining individuals i honestly don't know i don't remember seeing that letter i can say this that by all the twentieth september of that year the bureau was looking on all eight cylinders they were born and your work was moving ahead and and we were past the problem sir what is this view of the of the electricity would not say this is a principle case though as we've established the principle that the proper i reject that i can't i can't accept that the director was never involved waiting is that in

a breaking and entering or anything in the car i mean they were treating this investigation as a principal case and it was getting kind of top priority that must grow very much want to kill so the director was not lying but her he was merely struggling to think that's the white house of voting no i don't think so we think it is more like this yeah exactly

when you the kind of step in there is a series of documents relevant as the bottom or the government that you don't have any mr wilson yes ninety one answer my question one of the suspects i want humans as a sequence of letters on our internal memorandum following this or that you hear

relating to this that survey that was an argument made this was a conservative in second session with mission is is whether there are documents in sequence in the possession of the cia june twentieth nineteen seventies and eighties

that's right are these people just a second i think it was a surprise to me i felt that it was a mistake

i asked these people in the runway thirty minutes ago that was taken as a part of a chain we're fine now the activities of especially on going to the question which the chairman mr wilson we're talking about this more i don't think there's any question about the legal foundation which exist for inactivity this that i'm i am the us are person who doesn't quite surprised am when i understand that an investigation is underway circling an event of this time takes me aback and it took me back justin

well i think so and i think the way we get into all of this in that in the first instance was as to whether or not i have a concern about the propriety speaking of the legalities the propriety of this event a year later at the time of the watergate break through the extent that i was willing to someone or you know bribery or always of the things that have been charged and my response to them was that i felt comfortable with the proprietor from a constitutional legal standpoint at the time of the watergate break in and it had been like that had been my conviction and inclusion for some time i didn't i didn't express disapproval the mister go because i felt

some technical illegality that occur i felt it i felt that it showed that it was a surprise it was not anything that had been contemplated or through and i felt that those positive be brought back it certainly was oh my my disapproval was because these people as far as i knew had been set up there and do an investigation i was under the assumption that it would be combative as a normal investigation and when i read those my initial react intuit was somebody has not exercise good jazz now i'm still operating under the assumption that their judgment was not exercise at least independently by matt levitt i have been under the assumption write a law and they were operating

what they thought was a problem and so i i'm a hard place to say that that they are in response to your question they are to be and then there were fired or something that they usually receive weapons constitutional view that was bought or i don't know what what wiped means the west in my mind if they had been presented in the terms that it occur i would have to disagree so that was constitutional but that it was embarrassing that the veteran circles potentially virus into what political science or something and that really probably out of keeping with the with the concept here these

files were going out as substitutes for me to the fbi and the the method the style degree of investigation which i understood it was going to be conducted would've been commensurate with that that's fine category of investigation has been as the senators pause for a vote on the senate floor when you interrupt for a moment public television's coverage of the senate hearings will continue after a break for station identification i don't read coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of premiums for public broadcasting service the press by

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and vibe continues its coverage of hearings by the

senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert reich new as we go back to the hearing senator graham mr wilson are resuming the legal debate over authorization for the so called ellsberg working that's right that is right and we will

the employees juana molina for a long time the pittsburgh and i'm renee montagne it's going to

be about it may be and yeah ms beata pay the greatest i think

all right a little bit all right and semolina and the

united states you said that who is it fb