The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

Intro

ANNOUNCER: The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour comes to you tonight from San Francisco, site of the 1984 Democratic national convention.

JIM LEHRER: Good evening, for Robert MacNeil and the rest of our crew in San Francisco. The news from here today, day four and day last of the convention, is mostly Walter Mondale as he and running mate Geraldine Ferraro readied themselves for their main event, tonight's acceptance speeches. Otherwise Gary Hart again pledged his support for the Mondale-Ferraro ticket. A man with a gun was arrested outside Hart's hotel. And Jesse Jackson asked that the secret service continue to protect him. In other news, police continued to search for the answers in yesterday's massacre of 20 people at a McDonald's near San Diego, California.

Robin?

ROBERT MacNEIL: On the NewsHour tonight, in the aftermath of the San Diego massacre, Charlayne Hunter-Gault examines what is known of the killer' s motives. At the Democratic convention in San Francisco, Elizabeth Brackett with the Arkansas delegation documents the mixed emotions at Mondale's moment of victory. We talk to the only other woman the Democrats have tried to make a vice president in 1952, India Edwards. Our resident political observers, Alan Baron and David Gergen, analyze the climax of this convention. And the Democratic governors of two big states the party lost to Ronald Reagan in 1980, Texas and Ohio, assess the chances of the Mondale-Ferraro ticket.

LEHRER: Finally it's Walter Mondale's turn. He officially accepts the Democratic nomination for president tonight in a speech it's safe to call the most important he's ever delivered. Behind in the polls against President Reagan, he will be at the podium at the Moscone Center talking to two audiences: to the Democratic activists in the hall whose enthusiasm and energy he needs to carry his campaign to Reagan; to the national prime-time television audience who will make the choices and do the voting in November. The various San Francisco spotlights have been off Mondale until tonight. First on Geraldine Ferraro and the Bert Lance-Charles Manatt flap; then as the convention began, on Cuomo, Jackson and Hart in Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday order. But Thursday is for Walter Mondale.

Robin?

MacNEIL: And in a sense, Mondale still faces competition from other Democrats tonight, those who spoke to the convention before him. That may have been on his mind when he went to the convention hall this morning for a rehearsal to test the microphones and the teleprompter for tonight's acceptance speech. At this same podium on Monday night, New York Governor Mario Cuomo gave a speech that excited and lifted the convention. The next night Jesse Jackson electrified it. For Walter Mondale tonight, they will be difficult acts to follow, both for the delegates in the hall and the television audience at home. Mondale's victory last night brought him an important and practical piece of good news today: the Federal Election Commission said he now qualifies for $40.4 million in federal money to help finance his campaign against Ronald Reagan. That campaign will probably get the money sometime next week.

One of Mondale's pleasanter duties today was a victory lunch with Geraldine Ferraro and 1,400 Democrats who paid $250 a plate to hear them. House Speaker Tip O'Neill spoke first.

Rep. THOMAS P. O'NEILL, Speaker of the House: The warmth is there with Cuomo's speech. The Reverend Jackson's speech. The conciliatory speech of Hart, Gary Hart. The unity, I can feel it. When you've been in this business as long as I have, you can count and you can feel. And there's no question in my mind that we're going on to victory.

Rep. GERALDINE FERRARO, Democratic vice presidential candidate: Obviously I'm very, very excited for Gerry Ferraro.But I think it's much bigger than that. I'm very, very excited for all of us in this country who had until now not become truly part of the process. I think it's first step and a good first step. It is Walter Mondale's challenge to the future. It is his inclusion of all of us who could make this a stronger America, not only for women but for all of us.I think it's a beginning, a new beginning. Thank you very much.

Vice Pres. WALTER MONDALE: Now with Geraldine we open one of the most important steps toward progress possible.The nation is thrilled by this decision. You can hear it, you can see it. And once again, once again it is our Democratic Party that did it. We understand, we're the Americans who understand progress.

LEHRER: Gary Hart, his candidacy and his night now behind him, did not go away and hide today. He went over to Walter Mondale's hotel for what was described as a unity meeting, and then he held a news conference. He opened that by putting on a Mondale-Ferraro campaign button and then reflecting on his campaign, what went wrong, what went right, and why his supporters should now switch to Walter Mondale.

Sen. GARY HART: I think the Mondale-Ferraro ticket not only is a winning and winnable ticket; it's an imperative ticket for this party and this country. I will, as I've said throughout this race, do everything in my power, every ounce of energy, every hour of the day, commit to that ticket, to this party and to this country to win this critical election. What I want to try to do as a contribution to this nation is encourage as many of those people who were so generous and helpful to us to support this ticket, to turn this country around at a critical hour, and to prevent what I think increasing numbers of people fear, and that is a disastrous second Reagan administration.

It's awfully easy to say the Hart campaign blew the nomination here and there, but I hope people will remember where we started, the odds we had to overcome to even get to this convention. There's some very very fine candidates, some of whom had much greater advantages than we, who are not present at this convention as active candidates. So I think it's important to keep that in perspective.

I wish we had had the resources to have the kind of national political base that we needed after New Hampshire. We made a decision, a critical, critical decision, in November and December of 1983 to focus what resources we had, what little financial and organizational resources we had, on Iowa and New Hampshire, with the understanding that if I didn't distinguish myself somehow in those early states then nothing else mattered. That meant we didn't have organizers in the South, we didn't have organizers in Illinois and so on. We also were thin at the top. I assiduously tried, even under those conditions of fatigue and frustration and duress, tried to avoid personal attacks or certainly tried to avoid saying anything that I didn't believe. And obviously it's impossible to run a national campaign for a year and a half without stepping over the line sometimes, and I think everybody does that. I'm sure he did it. And if I could go back and return a perfect presidential campaign, we'd make some tactical decisions differently and I'd probably temper some remarks a little bit. I'm not thinking about any, any future ambition for myself. I've often said that I have the best job in the world, and I believe I do, and that's being a United States senator, particularly from the state of Colorado.

LEHRER: There was another Hart happening today. An unidentified man was arrested outside the Hart headquarters hotel this morning after a loaded pistol was found in his waistband. A Secret Service agent had noticed the bulge. The gun was found and the man was taken into custody immediately and driven away to a police station. Officials said the man made no effort to reach for the pistol or pull it out.

On another security matter, Jesse Jackson today officially requested his Secret Service protection continue indefinitely. As Jackson is no longer a presidential candidate, Secret Service protection would routinely end the next day or so. Secretary of the Treasury Donald Regan will make the decision on the Jackson request.

Robin? Arkansas: One Delegation's View

MacNEIL: All week, correspondent Elizabeth Brackett has been following the 42 delegates from Arkansas to catch the moods of this convention. Last night at the climactic moment, she was with them on the convention floor.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT [voice-over]: Over the top. It was a feeling to savor. Arkansas' 42 votes had come in eraly.

MAN: Arkansas, the first state to elect a woman to the U.S. Senate, in 1932, casts seven votes for Jackson, nine votes for Hart and 26 votes for Mondale.

BRACKETT [voice-over]: The climax for the Arkansas Democrats had come after a long night of watching and counting and waiting. Keeping the closest watch on that counting, Mondale whip Bruce Lindsey.A pencil never out of his hand, the phone rarely out of his ear, the young attorney from Little Rock whipped his delegation hard. On a different set of phones, the opposition. Bill Clemmons knew it was over for Jesse Jackson. Still, it was important that no Jackson delegate slipped. Hart Whip Craig Smith still hoped for a miracle, still hoped his candidate's speech would somehow shake votes loose from the tight grasp of the Mondale camp. Emotion was high as Gary Hart took his turn on the podium.

Sen. HART: So we will never give up. Beyond the greed and the selfishness of the present day and the reluctant hand of the past lies the promise and the hope of change, and if not now, someday we must prevail. If not now, someday we will prevail. God bless you and good night.

CRAIG SMITH, Hart whip: I think this was by far his best speech. Gary basically speaks of new ideas and a new generation of leadership, and I've heard him speak many many times, but this by far was his best.

BRACKETT: Are you pleased, are you satisfied?

Mr. SMITH: I'll know how pleased I am in about an hour, an hour and a half.

ROCKY RICHARDSON, Hart delegate: I think he did a fantastic job. I'm sure it's going to help to convert many people over to our side. It's just what they needed to win the ballot.

BRACKETT [voice-over]: But for the Mondale delegates, the reaction was different.

WOODSON WALKER, Mondale delegate: I thought substantively it was a very good speech, but I thought it was uninspiring.

BRACKETT [voice-over]: And in the end it was not to be for Gary Hart. In the end the votes were tallied, the red signs came down, the blue signs went up, and it was Walter Mondale's night.

BRACKETT: Was there ever a time tonight that you were worried?

BRUCE LINDSEY, Mondale whip: No, not at all. Our people were solid, I knew they were solid. They were solid coming in, and we voted 26 votes in Arkansas for Walter Mondale. That's what we had when we came here, and that's what we had tonight.

BRACKETT [voice-over]: For the youngest member of the Arkansas delegation, it had been quite an evening.

MICHELLE KING, Mondale alternate: I thought it would be a little more calmer than this, but I'm glad it turned out this way. It's really been exciting, you know, and I think it's been worth the whole trip just to be here tonight.

BRACKETT [voice-over]: As the cheers began to fade, the calls for unity began -- those calls led by Gary Hart.

Sen. HART: Join with me as I ask you, Madame Chair, to entertain a motion from the floor of this convention to make unanimous by acclamation the nomination of Walter F. Mondale as the Democratic nominee for president of the United States.

BRACKETT [voice-over]: Hart whip Craig Smith tried to respond to his candidate, but it wasn't easy.

Mr. SMITH: I'm disappointed. We've done everything we could. We gave them a good alternative; they didn't choose it. Now it's Ronald Reagan we're after next.

BRACKETT: Can you push Walter Mondale in Arkansas with enthusiasm?

Mr. SMITH: We'll see.

BRACKETT [voice-over]: Moments after Hart stepped down, it was Jesse Jackson's turn to call for unity. Would his delegates respond? It was a question that had been asked throughout the campaign.

WALTER CLEMMONS, Jackson whip: Well. I feel like we had a statement to make, and we had an opportunity to make that statement. And Walter Mondale people on the platform committee signed petitions, enabled us to make that statement, so we're gratified about that.

BRACKETT: There was only one man left. His surprise appearance brought down the house. So it was Walter Mondale's moment. The only question: how long will the cheering last once the final campaign begins?

BRACKETT: In Arkansas the cheering may not last very long. Private party polls show Mondale trailing Ronald Reagan by 14 points in the state. Party leaders hope Geraldine Ferraro will help bridge that gap, but they re not sure yet how their feisty new candidate will be received in Arkansas. One Arkansas politician told me, Arkansas' politics, like those of other southern states, are more antiestablishment populist than Republican or Democratic. All in all, admitted the politician, a man who had run as a Mondale delegate. "It may have been easier to win in Arkansas with Gary Hart."

Robin?

MacNEIL: One observation that many veteran conventiongoers have been making here is that the mood at this Democratic convention is a little flat. Apart from the moments with Cuomo and Jackson and the enthusiasm for Geraldine Ferraro, the convention has seemed a little ho-hum. That may be because all Democrats are aware of the uphill struggle the polls tell them they face against Ronald Reagan. For a taste of how difficult it may be, we have the Democratic governors of two big states the party lost to Reagan in 1980, Texas and Ohio: Mark White of Texas and Richard Celeste of Ohio.

Governor Celeste, has the difficulty of the campaign ahead laid a sobering hand here at San Francisco?

Gov. RICHARD CELESTE: I think there's no question that every delegate here and every Democrat here is mindful of the fact that we face an uphill battle. And so that all that we do with that in mind, it may mean that the smiles are a little less frequent than at some conventions. Though I sense a real gathering of enthusiasm, and I think we'll see it tonight.

MacNEIL: Governor White, are some of the delegates going to leave here already a little discouraged?

Gov. MARK WHITE: No, I think we're going to come away upbeat, and I think you'll find that the Texas delegation of this convention will be united. I think you'll find that the -- all factions of the Democratic Party will be united. We know that that's what it takes to win in Texas, and I think they want to win.

MacNEIL: Ronald Reagan won in Taxas last time with 55% of the vote. What kind of reality would you say the Mondale-Ferraro ticket faces in your state this year?

Gov. WHITE: Well, I think they have to go in and talk to people in the business community.I think they have to also be talking to farmers and ranchers in our state. And I think if they'll take that -- those issues to those people, I think you'll find that that'll make a big switch in the outcome of the vote in Texas.

MacNEIL: But does that mean that that's quite an obstacle at the moment, that there isn't automatically support among Texas Democrats for this kind of ticket?

Gov. WHITE: No, I think that Texas Democrats will support this ticket. I think what we have to do, though, is to focus on the farmers and ranchers in West Texas, because this Republican administration has turned their back on them. And I think that if we can show a proper face to them. I think you'll find that there'll be strong support for the Democratic ticket there. And the person who happens to be running the business in the small towns and communities across Texas, I think that's one area the Democratic Party has ignored in years past, and we need to emphasize what this ticket will do for them and with them to make certain that their future is secure.

MacNEIL: Governor Celeste, Mr. Reagan ran 11% ahead of President Carter in Ohio in 1980. What kind of realities does the Mondale-Ferraro ticket face in your state?

Gov. CELESTE: We've seen a tremendous increase in voter registration and have more people registered to vote in Ohio in 1984 than ever in the history of our state. I think that is the encouraging reality.

MacNEIL: Most of that is Democratic registration?

Gov. CELESTE: I would say most of that is Democratic registration. By the same token, we recognize the need to go out and speak to those working men and women who may feel that the nation has recovered and share the optimism which the President exudes and not realize just how fragile and really how endangered this recovery is. So we have our work cut for us, and I would say that it's an uphill battle in Ohio for the next 100 days.

MacNEIL: Is Ms. Ferraro a net plus or minus on the ticket in Ohio?

Gov. CELESTE: I was a strong advocate of the choice of a woman as running mate, and Geraldine Ferraro was my personal preference. So I was delighted, and I think she will be a real asset in the race in our state. She can talk to working men and women and their families. We have a very large Italian American community. And not only is she the first women to be on the ticket of a major party in the fall election, but she's also the first Italian American. So I think that that's clearly a plus, and we have to build on that.

MacNEIL: What about opposition to the idea of a woman on the ticket?

Gov. CELESTE: Well, many of the people who opposed the notion of a woman on the ticket were the same, rather conservative folks in our working communitywho may have had questions about Fritz Mondale in the first place. And as Democrats we must go back to these folks and talk about what is at stake in terms of jobs, in terms of our long-term prosperity and the danger posed by the tremendous deficit, and the peace issue, which I think can reach out to these voters.

MacNEIL: What about Ms. Ferraro in Texas, Governor White?

Gov. WHITE: Oh, I think she'll do quite well there. I think you're going to find that the people of Texas will respect her for what she's done in her life. She raised a family. She has been a practicing lawyer. She was an assistant district attorney. She prosecuted criminals. And I think she has a very strong concern for the victims of crime, and I know that that will be a very very good background for her to present her credentials to the pelple of Texas. I do know that she's going to be well received there.

MacNEIL: Would you be easier about the ticket if Senator Lloyd Bentsen, as was mentioned as a possibility, had been the vice presidential candidate?

Gov. WHITE: Well, I think in many ways it would have made it simple for us in Texas, because he's a known quantity, well respected, a thoughtful leader, an individual who has earned the respect, I think, of the members of the United States Senate and all those who know him. But I do believe that Gerry Ferraro is going to do an equally good job of bringing our party together to bring the people of Texas out to vote for the Democratic ticket, and I think she adds a new dimension that Senator Bentsen or any other man really doesn't bring to the ticket. And I think it's an inspiring opportunity for us to let women know that they have a strong role to play, a leading role to play in this government of ours. And I think the Democratic Party can be rightfully proud of the fact that we were the first to keep the commitments that have been made over the years. The Democratic Party can be proud of that.

MacNEIL: Can you, sitting there, starting with your own state, can you easily put together a scenario of how the Mondale-Ferraro ticket could put together enough electoral votes to win in November.

Gov. WHITE: Well, I think they ought to start with Texas, and certainly Ohio is a critical factor as well. But in Texas I think that we build on our base; we talk to the minorities, we urge them to register in even larger numbers, to go to the polls and vote. Hispanics, blacks will do that; they did it for me in 1982. I think you'll find that the people who are unemployed in our state in the industrial sectors of the Golden Triangle will be out actively voting for the Democratic ticket.

MacNEIL: Excuse me, I meant can you add up the states which you think the ticket could win that makes for the right number of electoral votes sitting there now?

Gov. WHITE: Well, I think you have to look to the Democratic base in the North, the Northeast. I think the Midwest is going to be vulnerable to -- for the Republicans because of their bad economic policies for farmers and rangers. I think the state of Texas is going to be a state that can be won by the Democratic ticket if we will work hard. Throughout the South there's a desire to vote for Democrats if we'll just give them a chance to, and I think that this ticket will give them a chance to.

NacNEIL: Yeah. Governor Celeste, what is your scenario? And starting with your own state, can you easily put together enough electoral votes, looking at this ticket?

Gov. CELESTE: I always worry when I hear the word easy in the context of an election like 1984.I think that none of us underestimates the power of incumbency and the skill with which Reagan and the Republican Party manipulates that incumbency. But I do believe that the votes are there if we work at it, and I believe they're there in Ohio. As I say, voter registration is a key, and we've seen that in my victory in 1982; I ran and lost in 1978. Voter participation was a major difference in 1982, and I think that's true in Mark White's race as well. And if you look from New England, from Massachusetts and Connecticut through New York and New Jersey, we have an opportunity to take virtually every state out through Illinois and through that Great Lakes heartland of this country. We have to work in concert with leaders like Mark White and the Democrats of Texas. And I would not write off any -- certainly any southern state. I think that -- I agree with Gerry Ferraro; she should go in there and campaign. So should Fritz Mondale. Because they're people who are willing to vote for a new direction if we make that direction clear.

MacNEIL: Let me ask each of you in a word. Governor Cuomo said that as of now, Reagan would win New York. Would he win Ohio, Governor Celeste? Right now.

Gov. CELESTE: He would win Ohio if the election were held before I got home today.

MacNEIL: And Texas, Governor White?

Gov. WHITE: Oh yeah, I think that's an interesting analysis. Certainly Reagan today has a lead, but so did my predecessor back in 1982. And the important date is November the 6th, 1984.

MacNEIL: I'd like to thank you both, Governor Celeste of Ohio, Governor White of Texas, for joining us. Jim?

LEHRER: There is another world besides the one of the Democrats here in San Francisco, and Charlayne Hunter-Gault from New York has today's news from it. Charlayne? Slaughter in San Ysidro

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Jim, police in San Ysidro, California, today grappled with the grizzly details and searched for motives in yesterday's mass killing there, one that's been called the worst one-man massacre in U.S. history. As a call went out for blood today from the San Diego Blood Bank, some of the survivors remained in critical condition. In reconstructing events leading up to the killings, police said that 41-year-old James Oliver Huberty burst into a McDonald's restaurant in San Ysidro and with a semiautomatic rifle and other weapons started shooting anyone in sight. Shouting "I've killed thousands and I'll kill thousands more," the man pumped bullets into the terrified customers in a rampage that lasted 90 minutes. He killed 20 people, including five children, and wounded 20 others. It ended when a police sharpshooter killed the gunman with a single round through the head. Police described the scene as a slaughterhouse. Here to tell us more about the tragedy and its aftermath is the man in charge of the investigation, Lieutenant Paul Ybarrondo of the San Diego Police Department. He joins us tonight from the studios of public station KPBS in San Diego.

Lieutenant, what have you been able to find out today about the killer that might shed some light on this awful tragedy?

Lt. PAUL YBARRONDO: We know that the man moved here to the San Diego area from Massillon, Ohio, with his wife and two children about six to seven months ago.He was unemployed at the time. He has since worked as a security guard, and he was discharged from a security guard position about a week ago. At that time he did not obtain other employment. He was somewhat despondent over that. Yesterday, when this incident occurred, he went with his family to a traffic court appearance, then to the San Diego Zoo for a visit, left his house about 15 minutes before the incident occurred, and walked or drove to the nearby McDonald's restaurant. As he entered the restaurant, he was armed with two weapons, a shotgun and a nine-millimeter semiautomatic rifle. He also had a nine-millimeter pistol. He ordered all of the people in the restaurant to the floor, and according to surviving witnesses he immediately started shooting people. And the ultimate results were that we had 21 people dead within the restaurant and immediately outside of it, and another 14 to 15 people injured by gunshot.

HUNTER-GAULT: You think that the loss of this job as a security guard might have had something to do with -- I understand also that he had lost his job as a welder in Ohio before coming there. Do you think these incidents along with the traffic thing may have sparked something in him that caused this rampage?

Lt. YBARRONDO: Well, we're trying to determine by contacting Ohio authorities and through local contacts of the suspect whether or not this could have happened. Apparently, it would appear this is something that's built up for a long period of time, because we have very little information as to him making statements indicating that he would do such a thing.

HUNTER-GAULT: Well, one of the things I read today was that, I think it was one of the -- an Ohio sheriff's deputy said that this man was always talking about shooting somebody. Did he have any previous arrest record or contact with the police or anything that, you know, would have indicated this?

Lt. YBARRONDO: He has had minor contacts with the police in his hometown in Ohio, but again, we are still delving into his background. At this time we don't have anything that really indicates something of this magnitude or any form of violence in his background.

HUNTER-GAULT: Well, I also read in various wire reports today that he had had violent incidents in his home with his own family, that one of his children had welts on her face and said that her father had hit her, that he had had an argument with his wife just before he left the house. Have you been able to find out anything about that sort of --

Lt. YBARRONDO: Our information is to the contrary, that just prior to him leaving the home he kissed his wife goodbye, said he was leaving, walked away; she went in to take a nap, and then later learned that this incident had happened a block away in the restaurant.

HUNTER-GAULT: Is it true that one of his children saw from the balcony of their home this whole incident?

Lt. YBARRONDO: This is quite possible. The children are in a position in the houses just a block away, and overlooks the scene itself.

HUNTER-GAULT: What about that quote, "I've killed thousands and I'll kill thousands more"? What do you make if that? I mean was he a veteran or did he have military experience?

Lt. YBARRONDO: Based on our information he is not a veteran, he does not have military experience. We are still trying to confirm that quote. Many people in their excitement thought they heard different statements by the man, but we're not sure that he actually said that. We do know that he ordered people to the floor, and then immediately started shooting victims when they complied and lay down on the floor.

HUNTER-GAULT: What is it that you investigation is involving now?I mean, what are the steps that you're taking now, and what ones will you be taking in the next few days?

Lt. YBARRONDO: Well, we are still continuing work at the scene itself.We've been there all day today investigating physical evidence, collecting physical evidence. We know that over 140 rounds of nine-millimeter ammunition were fired by the suspect in the building. He also shot at police vehicles, fire engine officers and other civilians on the street. And at this time, we're just trying to confirm that in all cases he shot the victims. There's very little doubt of that at this time. We are also looking for any other witness information that might help us decide why this man did it.

HUNTER-GAULT: Is there anything that the people could have done, or anybody could have done, to mitigate the damage that was done? I mean apparently he just sort of opened up and started firing.

Lt. YBARRONDO: Exactly. It doesn't appear that anything could have been done. We believe that the deaths that occurred, probably occurred within the first 10 minutes when he started shooting.

HUNTER-GAULT: Has anything like this ever happened in the history of San Diego that you know of?

Lt. YBARRONDO: Certainly nothing to this magnitude. We have had other sniper incidents. We had a young lady several years ago that opened up from her house on a schoolyard and two people were killed, a school principal and a custodian; also several other people, and children, were injured. But certainly nothing of this great a magnitude.

HUNTER-GAULT: Well, Officer Ybarrondo, thank you very much for being with us and we wish you all the luck in the investigation.

Lt. YBARRONDO: Thank you.

HUNTER-GAULT: Now for the rest of today's news. Scientists in California have announced they've discovered a new protein that may cause a common form of leukemia. Researchers at the University of California at Los Angeles say the discovery could eventually lead to a better diagnostic test for the disease, known as chronic myelogenous leukemia. A cancer of the bone marrow, it is an adult form of leukemia which strikes 10,000 Americans each year. The discovery is being hailed as a breakthrough in understanding the link between genes and cancer.

For the first time this week, President Reagan took a brief trip out of Washington, journeying to Columbia, South Carolina. There, at a conference of 15 Caribbean leaders, the President continued his blistering weeklong attack on communism, the Soviet Union and Cuba. Here is a report from Tom Fowler of South Carolina Educational TV.

TOM FOWLER [voice-over]: This largest gathering ever of Caribbean leaders was called historic by its chairman, Jamaican Prime Minister Edward Seaga. The summit has focused on the region's troubled economy and threats from left-wing political groups. Prime Minister Seaga thanked President Reagan for his administration's attention to the region.

EDWARD SEAGA, Prime Minister, Jamaica: Some are fond of claiming that small countries sit on the periphery of the center of the interests of major powers. But you indeed have moved the Caribbean from the periphery to the center.

FOWLER [voice-over]: President Reagan arrived this morning for the final session of the three-day summit. He told the Caribbean leaders the invasion of Grenada stopped a communist power grab in the region.

Pres. RONALD REAGAN: Let us always remember the crucial distinction between the legitimate use of force for liberation, versus totalitarian aggression for conquest.

FOWLER [voice-over]: The President had strong words for the upcoming Nicaraguan elections.

Pres. REAGAN: We would wholeheartedly welcome a genuine democratic election in Nicaragua, but no person committed to democracy will be taken in by a Soviet-style sham election. The situation in Nicaragua is not promising, but if the Sandinistas would keep their original commitment, permit free elections, respect human rights and establish an independent nation, conflict in the region would subside.

FOWLER [voice-over]: The President also said the Soviet bloc in Cuba have been committing enormous resources to undermining this hemisphere's liberty and independence.

HUNTER-GAULT: Meanwhile, in Managua thousands of Sandinistas rallied today in celebration of the fifth anniversary of its revolution. Opposition parties yesterday threatened to boycott the election set for November unless a two-year-old state of emergency was lifted. Today Nicaragua's junta chief, Daniel Ortega, announced plans to ease restrictions in civil liberties but not before three months.

In France, the Communist Party was offered but refused four posts in the new government.However, French foreign and military policies are not expected to change, since both these ministries were reappointed to their posts. The French Cabinet resigned earlier in the week over a domestic dispute.

And there were negotiations of all sorts and all stages going on around the world today. After a year of suspension, the U.S. and Vietnam have agreed to resume talks on Vietnam war soldiers missing in action.

In Switzerland, Argentina walked out of the first direct talks with Britain over the future of the Falkland Islands, calling the talks pointless.

And the 11-year-old talks between NATO and the Warsaw Pact nations on reducing troop forces in Europe broke off for the summer.

Robin?

MacNEIL: Still to come on tonight's NewsHour, Judy Woodruff will interview the only other woman the Democrats have tried to make a vice president -- in 1952 -- India Edwards. And we analyze the climax of this convention with our resident observers, David Gergen and Alan Baron.

[video postcard -- San Francisco, California] India Edwards: Voice from the Past

LEHRER: The Democratic convention has other official business to perform today besides listening to speeches. They have an act of real history to perform: nominating the first major party woman candidate for vice president of the United States. Her name, of course, is Geraldine Ferraro, a congresswoman from the borough of Queens, New York. There are many interested parties in her nomination. Among the most interested is a most interesting woman who is now with Judy Woodruff at the Moscone Center. Judy?

JUDY WOODRUFF: Jim, India Edwards was one of the first women ever to be nominated for vice president. It was in 1952 and it was something she calls a courtesy gesture. She withdrew her name as soon as it was announced. But aside from that, she has been active in Democratic Party politics for four decades, becoming the first woman vice chairman of the party in the early 1950s. She still pays close attention to politics, and she is our guest this evening.

Mrs. Edwards, thank you for being with us. Now, you were not the first woman, but there were --

INDIA EDWARDS: I think soon after women got the vote in 1920 that there were two women nominated, but I'm ashamed to say I've even forgotten the names.

WOODRUFF: All right. But you were certainly one of the first, and that was in 1952. What do you think about Geraldine Ferraro? Is she an asset for the Democrats?

Ms. EDWARDS: I hope so. I hope so, certainly, because I feel it's terribly important for the sake of the country and of the world, as a matter of fact,of this entire globe, that we win this year.

WOODRUFF: But you have had your doubts. I read several stories where you were quoted as saying you didn't know that this was the time for a woman to be nominated.

Ms. EDWARDS: I think it's a gamble, and I don't know that this is the year that we should gamble. But it's a fact. She's undoubtedly going to be nominated today, and she seems to me to be a very capable woman, and I'm sure she'll be a good campaigner.

WOODRUFF: Why do you think it's a gamble?

Ms. EDWARDS: It may be because I'm so old that I'm old fashioned. I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong. I have been in the past, several times. But I am afraid that there are parts of the country that would not want a woman one breath away from the presidency.

WOODRUFF: Which parts?

Ms. EDWARDS: The South and the Middle West.

WOODRUFF: Now, why would that be? What would their objections be to a woman, do you think, in 1984?

Ms. EDWARDS: Well, perhaps they should have none, but I've had a lot of experience. I've campaigned in all the states of the Union, and I think that those are much more conservative parts of the country than the two coasts.

WOODRUFF: But I mean why, again, why would a woman be objectionable?

Ms. EDWARDS: Well, not to me, they wouldn't.

WOODRUFF: No, I understand what you're saying, but why would a woman --

Ms. EDWARDS: Think of the states that have not passed the Equal Rights Amendment. Do you think that states that have not passed -- didn't vote for the Equal Rights Amendment that they will be keen about a woman for vice president?

WOODRUFF: How long do you think the country has to wait, then, before you think the whole country --

Ms. EDWARDS: We have a Democratic vice president this year, but I think that we undoubtedly will have a woman running for the presidency in 1988.

WOODRUFF: Why are you so sure?

Ms. EDWARDS: Because now the subject is considered with seriousness and I think the women are going to prepare for the next four years.

WOODRUFF: Do you think she is qualified? Do you think Ms. Ferraro is qualified?

Ms. EDWARDS: I'm sure she is qualified. She has been in the Congress, I think, how many -- three terms?

WOODRUFF: Six years, that's right.

Ms. EDWARDS: Yes. I think she is. And from what I -- I don't know her, but from what I've read about her and what I'Ve heard, I think she's very conscientious and does her homework, and I think she'll be a good woman.

WOODRUFF: What are your impressions of her so far? She's been on the news a fair amount in the week since Mr. Mondale announced her. Any particular impression of her?

Ms. EDWARDS: Well, she seems to me to be very quick-witted, which is important. And --

WOODRUFF: Is that good or bad?

Ms. EDWARDS: It's good. And she certainly is very attractive looking. And she's a charming woman, I think. I would hate to have a woman who wasn't charming.

WOODRUFF: Do you think there's any danger that she might overshadow Mr. Mondale?

Ms. EDWARDS: Well, you know I'm not going to answer that question.

WOODRUFF: No, but I mean, she does have, as you pointed out yourself, an outgoing personality. She's --

Ms. EDWARDS: Yes, I think she's very outgoing. But I think Fritz Mondale is a very fine human being. I've known him a long time, and I really do think he's -- but I think she'll be an asset to him. I've changed my mind about not being an asset.

WOODRUFF: Okay. There's already speculation that we are seeing in the press about how appropriate it is for the two of them to be together. What are the gestures they can use -- do they shake hands? can they put their arms around each other the way two male candidates would do? Is that something that you think they need to be concerned about?

Ms. EDWARDS: I don't know, it would never occur to me that there would be any concern about that. Or, I mean, why wouldn't they put their arms around each other? I don't think it would be appropriate to kiss and hug, but I think that -- well, I think it'll be quite all right.

WOODRUFF: Do you think Fritz Mondale and Geraldine Ferraro can beat Mr. Reagan and Mr. Bush in November?

Ms. EDWARDS: Yes, I think -- I'm so pleased with the way the Reverend Jesse Jackson and Gary Hart have given -- pledged their support, and if we have that support, we'll win.

WOODRUFF: Are you working for any political candidates this year?

Ms. EDWARDS: Well, I'm going to work for Mondale and Ferraro.

WOODRUFF: What will you do?

Ms. EDWARDS: Whatever I can. An 89-year-old woman can't do much, but I'll do what I can.

WOODRUFF: Thank you very much, India Edwards, for being with us. Back to you, Robin and Jim. Convention Climax -- Pundits Ponder

LEHRER: We go again to the Gergen-Baron wisdom well now. That's David Gergen, former Reagan White House communications director and Republican political thinker, and Alan Baron, Democratic thinker and publisher of The Baron Report, a political newsletter.

The Mondale speech tonight -- David Gergen, you went to a briefing a short while ago where the Mondale folks laid out what he wanted to accomplish tonight. In a nutshell, what is it?

DAVID GERGEN: Well, Marty Kaplan, who has been working with Vice President Mondale, explained that they've been working on this speech now for about six weeks. They've put an incredible --

LEHRER: Six weeks!

Mr. GERGEN: For about six weeks; they put an incredible amount of effort into it. And that's because they see the speech as pivotal in the campaign. Now, what they believe is that the campaign has been going through so many hairpin curves that people haven't really understood who Walter Mondale is and what his message is, and that's what they would like to lay out tonight. They have two objectives in this speech. First of all, to help people understand Walter Mondale the man and the road he's traveled to come to this convention. And secondly, to lay out the path he would like the country to go down under a Mondale presidency.

LEHRER: Has it been written with the audience at home, on television, in mind primarily, or the Democratic activists on the floor as well, or both?

Mr. GERGEN: Well, they clearly have both audiences very much in mind, but I think primarily the home audience. And basically I think that what they're trying to do in this speech is saying, "Look, we don't really want to talk about the past. You know, the past isn't a very good one in terms of Walter Mondale with the Jimmy Carter connection. They don't want to campaign between today and yesterday, because they think Ronald Reagan will win that campaign handily. What they want to campaign about is the future versus today, and what they really intend to do is not look at the Reagan record the way Mario Cuomo did, but look at the future and try to scare people about what kind of future it might be under Reagan and then try to create a much more attractive vision of the future under Mondale.

LEHRER: Is that smart, Alan Baron?

ALAN BARON: Well, I think that is. I think since the beginning of the Mondale campaign they have viewed this as two separate elections, one electionfor the Democratic nomination and one election for the White House. Almost acting under the assumption that until tonight this was a family fight, and the other 70% of the people didn't pay any attention or weren't watching; I mean it was a Democratic fight. I think that ended. My guess is it ended right before the platform fight when Puerto Rico started to cause trouble and Mondale sent a letter to Puerto Rico pledging that he'd make it the nation's 51st state. And that ended; I think that was the final promise in that sense. And I think starting tonight, then -- we still have 50 states -- that he's going to go after the 50 states and run a campaign for the White House. It'll be a very different campaign than the primaries. He regards it as two elections. The question is, will the memories of the past campaign linger on?

LEHRER: How in the world could he pull something like that off? I mean, my goodness, people have been paying attention these last several months.

Mr. GERGEN: He can't entirely escape the past, and I think they're realistic in believing that. What they would like to do as much as they can is shift the focus. And a lot of campaigns have tried that, and I think he'll have mixed success.

LEHRER: Give me an example of how they might try that. I mean the focus from what to what?

Mr. GERGEN: Well, instead of talking about what Reagan has done in terms of inflation, which is something they don't want Ronald Reagan talking about --

LEHRER: Because he's lowered it.

Mr. GERGEN: That's right.

LEHRER: Or at least it's gone down.

Mr. GERGEN: Instead of talking about how much gain the middle class has made under a Reagan administration compared to, say, under a Carter administration, they want to say, in effect, that it's illusory, that the middle class and other people are out standing on a trap door. And that's the kind of argument they want to make, and that the future under Reagan is going to mean a budget and budget changes that are going to hurt the working people in the country and lower-income people and it's going to help the rich, and the future under Mondale will be fairer. And that's the kind of argument that he wants to get into. I, as a realistic matter, though -- Walter Mondale can't shed the past. He is as much a creature of his past, after all, as all the rest of us are, and people are going to have to look back at what he's accomplished, what he's been part of as part of his qualifications for being president.

Mr. BARON: The question is really how much people remember. In 1980, in the Reagan campaign, as I observed it, they made a pretty conscious decision that they couldn't afford a two-campaign approach, that they couldn't run --

LEHRER: That the Reagon people --

Mr. BARON: That they couldn't run hard right until the nomination, that they couldn't fight Philip Crane for the right wing. They saw it as one campaign. But the Mondale people have done virtually everything battle by battle. What do we do to win Illinois? What do we do to win Ohio? If you listened to the rhetoric in Texas it sounded like Hart and Mondale were running for president of Texas. Now they say that's over. They are smart people, they have the polls, they know who the undecided votes are. If you look at tonight's speech, my guess is you'll be able to see exactly where they're going. Count the word future, count the appeal to the middle class and so forth. And this will not be a partisan Democratic speech; it'll be a speech that is geared toward the November election, because they're in a different campaign, almost like running for a different office. And the question is, how much memory still exists?

Mr. GERGEN: I do think that they will try to move rhetorically to the center.They in fact are supporting quite a liberal program, but they don't want to make that point to the country. They want to move their rhetoric to the center and talk about the working class and the future of the working class.

LEHRER: Can he not only in this speech tonight but in the campaign now, can he avoid talking about -- talking to those "special interests" that got him here? The organized labor and all the others that helped him -- can be just now put those folks behind him and move toward the center and toward the more moderate part of the country?

Mr. BARON: Well, I would say that you'd have to learn from what he's been through. Considering the fact that in primaries where there's a very low turnout, you take Iowa, where 25% of the teachers in the state, or less, members of the NEA, went out to vote in the caucuses, and Mondale got about 60% of the 25%. The NEA was able to get 15% of its members to go in the caucuses and vote for him. I don't think he has to worry about the NEA in a general election in that sense. He's got to figure out how to get the other 85% of the schoolteachers who already said no to the NEA once in Iowa, and he's got to use universal themes that apply to everyone. I think he will, and I think he'll count on those constituencies now. My goodness, if Lane Kirkland isn't ready to do all he can for him and the Black Caucus and NOW -- if NOW is still deciding whether or not he's a good alternative to Ronald Reagan, it's too late. And I think he assumes that at this point, all of those constituencies are going to work very hard for him and he's going to go off and talk to other people.

Mr. GERGEN: Let me say one other thing, though. I think that in addition to speaking to the living-room audience, he has to bring some excitement and some enthusiasm to this convention. What you've had is a lot of zap but no zip in this convention, and I think that they're aware of that.

LEHRER: What do you mean no zap -- no zip?

Mr. GERGEN: Well, there's no lift. They've spent their whole time zapping Reagan, but there has been very little lift to this convention about what they want, you know, within the party, and they need to leave with that. They need to have a speech which is talked about in the same way that Mario Cuomo --

LEHRER: You mean Mondale's speech.

Mr. GERGEN: Yes.

LEHRER: They can't go away talking about Jackson's speech and Cuomo's speech; they've got to talk about Mondale.

Mr. BARON: You want to know, there's a very interesting thing. Sometimes in candidacies they talk about what people have done. And I've come to the conclusion that this Ferraro thing was a much more important decision than I ever thought, because that is the only thing Mondale has ever done that through the convention so far he's being praised for. Anyone that's praised him as a man of courage and vision has said this is a man of courage and vision who named Ferraro vice president. I have not heard one mention of anything he's done as senator or vice president or anything. And vice president, my goodness -- no vice president can do very much. Remember when Nixon was vice president and they asked what -- Eisenhower was asked what he's done, and he said, what, "Give me a week and I'll try to think of something." So vice presidents don't. But the point is, when people say, "What did Walter Mondale do to deserve this?" the one answer it should get in speeches is he had the courage and the vision to pick Geraldine Ferraro. That's the one biographical fact you get about him. He's not Ronald Reagan and he picked Geraldine Ferraro.

Mr. GERGEN: Yeah, it's really true, because he in effect painted himself into a corner, and he's now trying to make a virtue out of necessity. But the word is coming out of the Mondale camp today, of course they're quite buoyant, as they should be; after all, they've had a day of triumph, I think marred last night by Gary Hart. But nonetheless they did have a day of triumph yesterday and they're very up, and word is coming out that Mrs. Ferraro is helping the ticket in their latest polls, that they've seen a bounce in various parts of the country. There is also rumor, which is unconfirmed, that Bert Lance is not helping, that that is becoming a drag on the ticket. I think we'll have to wait a few days to see what the public polls --

LEHRER: See if he goes? You mean you think that Lance might resign, step aside?

Mr. GERGEN: There is talk in this town that Mr. Lance may decide to pull himself out. I think he's -- Bert Lance is a, for whatever else you may say about him, is a very engaging and shrewd man, and I think he'll make the decision that would be in the best interests of the ticket.

Mr. BARON: Even if he keeps the title, he may -- he has said that he hasn't decided whether he will be general chairman of this campaign from an office in Washington or from Calhoun, Georgia. He may decide that he'll run the campaign from -- or give his advice from Calhoun, Georgia.

Mr. GERGEN: He was the man apparently who tried to talk Mr. Mondale out of appointing him.

Mr. BARON: He said he had some problems. I don't think he tried to talk him out of it.No, I think that's --

LEHRER: Brother Gergen, I picked up just in passing, your comment on Gary Hart. I think you have something you want to say about Gary Hart and his performance last night. Be my guest.

Mr. GERGEN: Well, I just -- I tell you, I think so far in this convention there have been two real winners and one real loser. And the two winners are Mario Cuomo and Jesse Jackson. Jackson, who came into this convention regarded as a loose cannon. I think has handled himself with grace, with dignity; he was generous to Walter Mondale; he stepped out to the flight yesterday when a question came about the booing of Andy Young and Mrs. King.And a real loser, they guy who gave the real clunker of a speech in this convention, was Gary Hart.

LEHRER: Clunker?Why do you say it was a clunker?

Mr. GERGEN: Well, I think that there are times in politics when you've got to realize the race is over and it's time to be a bigger man than some people think you are. And I think that he had the opportunity last night to be generous, to be gracious, and he turned it down. He went out and gave a speech which said nothing about Mondale except in a very grudging way --

LEHRER: Only mentioned him once as I recall.

Mr. BARON: Yeah, I think once.

Mr. GERGEN: You know, and I -- there are a lot of people who looked at that, a lot of professionals in the political game who looked at that and said, you know, he's hurt himself with this speech. He had an opportunity to inherit some of the future in this party, and he may still do that, but he set himself back last night, because he could have been generous. And then when he came back out afterwards, after the nomination, standing there in the hall, you know, I thought he was going to take that opportunity then to say something very kind about Mr. Mondale. Instead he said, "Let's unite behind the ticket." He still found it hard to say anything inspiring.

Mr. BARON: We're in an awkward position in these conventions. They never used to have candidates get up and speak to a convention before the balloting. Now, I don't remember Teddy Kennedy in 1980 praising Jimmy Carter tremendously in his speech. [crosstalk] "Vote for me in 10 minutes, but now I want to tell you how great Walter Mondale is." I mean how can you --

Mr. GERGEN: They gave him that time so that he could be --

Mr. BARON: Well, then he should have done it afterwards, but not -- or withdrawn as a candidate. If you're going to be a candidate, you can't stand there and give a 10-minute speech praising how great Walter Mondale is.

Mr. GERGEN: Well, he could have been more generous or taken that opportunity to do something different. They did not give him that time to make a campaign speech for Gary Hart. The other thing he did was he chewed up an hour and 15 minutes of time and drove the nomination into way off prime time.

LEHRER: By not stopping the crowd at the beginning. Alan Baron, David Gergen, thanks again. Robin?

MacNEIL: And finally tonight, some philosophy. Much has been bandied about at this Democratic convention, not all of it of a political nature. Take for instance these few words to live by from one of Elizabeth Brackett's Arkansas delegates. Harold Jinks.

HAROLD JINKS, Mondale delegate: You've been behaving?

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: Not really. Have you?

Mr. JINKS: I never have been able to draw a line of demarcation between good behavior and bad behavior, or being proper or improper, or being moral or immoral, or being good or bad. It's a matter of conscience, and I don't have any conscience.

MacNEIL: Good night, Jim.

LEHRER: Good night, Robin. See you tomorrow night. I'm Jim Lehrer: thank you and good night.