The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

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by salmon good evening i'm jim lehrer welcome to the special saturday night edition of the newshour us led forces continued their assault on baghdad and other iraqi targets will have the day's developments john burns of the new york times in baghdad excerpt from general franks is first briefing analysis of the military campaign thus far a report on the wars television images and the thoughts of michael beschloss richard norton smith roger wilkins james johnson and diane combs major funding for the news hour with jim lehrer is provided by the archer daniels midland company espy's see communications the corporation for public broadcasting and by viewers

like you thank you the ground assault dominated this third day of the war against a rack us and british forces fought four key cities in the southern part of the country while the bombing of baghdad continues ray suarez has our war news roundup us and british forces press northward today ahead of schedule according to their commanders they've now moved a hundred and fifty miles into iraq but halfway to baghdad us military reported progress in a battle around basra this country's second largest city us troops also crossed the euphrates river and a pentagon spokeswoman said they had taken the port city of kos are but there were also reports of continued fighting in that city we have a report from the same by alex thomson of independent television news plus iraq's only deep water ports that for a political objective with the invading forces

dropped into a small pool report told it was unsafe to do offer yet but it is the town still not secure forces are still fighting it possible for seven and the resisters is quite variable on and you have military units you have civilians you have virtually everybody in civilian clothes at times the military and start to change in civilian clothes and they moving clinton on the military but when you find their position that they just came from his military ids military uniforms military equipment weapons mortars what have you which makes it got a difficult the hardest of all the port area secure by tonight the town could take even longer us marines and the average vermonter that early on thursday morning and so to the second wave coming in from this morning's press a breach about some forty five this morning contact panic postum i can have that done and

to share and now you can't separate them and have gone and mortars on an artillery yellow close to assume on that little bit that wasn't fun at a military facility a breach of sporadic small arms and small millimeter mortar fire they may have some desire to fight that very quickly realize what so important that iraq is have been taken prisoner and one that serves the geneva convention we were allowed to form a respectful distance several look at a good comedy the light we can only guess at out in the desert to the west of casa signs that more obvious are surrendering but it's not quite on the same scale as the surrender scene during the nineteen ninety one apple baldwin it is in this area the remote oil to build some wells the

suburbs are surrounding regions about and beyond saturday also brought the first day like grades over baghdad and there was more bombing after nightfall the us military said it had launched more than five hundred cruise missiles and several hundred prison gym guided weapons in the last twenty four hours i mean in baghdad the explosions in anti aircraft fire erupted for a third night but they were less intense than in previous raids into todd the commander of the iraq invasion general tommy franks gave his war a sense of our forces are already as iraq and we have operations ongoing in the north and the west and the south and an around but that our troops are performing but most of the outcome is not in doubt

frank said only us and british forces have not yet found any iranian weapons of mass destruction when we're on the terrorism front the us fire cruise missiles at the base of an alleged al qaeda linked militant group in the mountains of northeastern iraq the group is known as guns are always loved maura rocky soldier surrendered today there were reports that thousands of given themselves up to us and british forces but us officials wouldn't confirm a number of the international committee of the red cross reported it was working to gain access to prisoners of war and there were more casualties today in central iraq a british journalist traveling with the us military unit reported four soldiers were killed when their vehicles came under enemy grenade fire two british naval helicopters like these collided over the persian gulf killing six british crewmen and an american naval officer during the day huge plumes of thick black smoke filled baghdad's guy out to sea or a television

reported that a rockies had set fire to oil containers around the city to obscure air raid targets still rocky officials took immediate truce to to recite damage during three days of airstrikes including the rubble of a building they said was an orphanage and rocks information than two hundred civilians including women and children had been injured since the war began three years these two he added that the government remained in power and had recalls the us british attacks on iraqi television released this poor

quality tape reportedly showing saddam his sons and his advisors today and iraq's health minister said the leader and his aides were not harmed he's a poet and a few students and all this false allegations over the cost of these facilities meanwhile on the streets of baghdad some iraqis seem to be resuming normal life in the us president bush monitored the iraq events with his war council at his camp david retreat during his weekly radio address the president had this morning the campaign on harsh terrain in a vast country could be longer and more difficult than some had predicted in turkey today the military denied reports its troops had crossed into northern iraq the us has warned any such move could spark conflicts with iraqi kurdish forces

but it was widely reported the us had finally given up on sending american ground troops through turkey into northern iraq the turkish parliament refused to approve that plan jim thanks ray and other developments today there was no let up in the protest campaign against the war thousands of people marched in major cities across the united states and around the world on the allman has that story in the us the largest demonstration was a new york city at midday at one point the crowd stress twelve city blocks marching down broadway police estimated the crowd of forty thousand organizers said as many as two hundred thousand participated later police gave chase to a small number of protesters right anti and some pro war kraus also gathered in chicago to san francisco and los angeles and in washington several hundred people rallied against the war in front of the white house where president bush was at camp david

security was tight and police monitored the crowd hundreds of thousands to the streets in asia europe and the arab world in london a crowd estimated at more than one hundred thousand gathered in hyde park britain's largest wartime protest demonstrations were held in nine other european countries pope john paul the second made his first public remarks since the war began in a vatican address the pope said the war threatens the fate of humanity and that piece was a true road toward a united world the recommended daily united nations condemned the us led invasion and force the withdrawal of all outside forces and saudi arabia appealed for an immediate end to the fighting the foreign minister said it was time to take a breather and to give them more diplomacy another chance now back to the war itself what it's like in baghdad once again we get a firsthand account from new york times correspondent john burns karen smith talk to him by phone earlier this ad

john burns welcome once again to the rockettes i'm telling the situation on the ground today in baghdad that typically as contrasted to yesterday well tonight it for the quiet of the night with ferocious fourth american attacks the worst daytime attack today we believe although i personally have not been feared that most important of the buildings in baghdad was destroyed early today but tonight have been extremely quiet occasionally we hear in the distance the crop of what sounded like an impact included talk or being guided bomb but in the heart of baghdad and i keep quiet through this law all relative lull given a chance to get out and get around see some of the damage if indeed we went out early today and another conclusion of that one of which is that the conditions are

extremely accurate the building that we hear in every place that i could see on the morning vote most of the day today with one thought that we've mentioned are extremely powerful and they are completely destroyed and the largest buildings following them out of the way they construct for themselves with a collapse of everything in five of gong couldn't tell john they are pattern of these targets the ensemble saying in south yeah i mean we can get a complete list of the building fit the article thought professor themselves not know exactly what they are but they included the public people on the office about their lives and what's the capital they included local police security and intelligence building the motor building and they included a variety

show which won hit harder than any other as we observe the night and it happened to be able to get closer than any other to where we were witnessing these attacks the fab five building about ten points higher than in the middle of a presidential compound immediately opposite of television which will launch and they would clear and i think well i didn't think that the building with the advent of a week ago the day that the provincial lives in this john is in terms of casualties causes already been some discussion about that i want to learn today in terms of iraqi casualties or any casualties really as a result of the law we got a political figure but but when you are conflated them it looked as though something in the region of two hundred two hundred and fifteen people wounded they said three day boot given no details on that that we did see injured

the injured mr ira and all for the western baghdad some of them aimed at that a lot of damage from myth of the bombs but many of them may have been injured by forming anti aircraft fire that has enormous bunch of anti aircraft that goes up into the sky whenever the marathon's go off and sometimes you see goldman thriving employer provided nearly half an hour before the vote with obama for these are being presented to you has as injuries caused by the bomb they were they were hanged about the good that some or maybe in what's fashionable work with many of the injuries are very like some of them were old survivalist and burn injuries what was excluded from this with any time any military casualties we were shown a lot of women children middle aged man but many of the buildings hit were quickly under guard by it by military personnel and we were not shown any of that my

guess is the court more than are the devotion to my gift love more than three people were killed and the people who were killed or military people and we were not shown anything about that because the building particular area and because of too to show just how thankful the damage to get by that was would be and we're all learning enterprise and there's much to be said about the situation right now that we do not understand amongst amongst the things we don't understand golf exact whereabouts and mit professor hal about thain who has not spoken again although he appeared on television tonight state television with another militia group with multiple clear that the film was shown in a current bill but when the information minister without the daily news by an american reporter why it's not

one way we make their new address to the people and when he was asked about the questions read about somebody else in english have you personally theme of the fed thinks the banks thought that there are actually more progress next next why do you not ask a reasonable question to my mind the question as to why would be for sensitivity about a question about the whole web robots which are the phillies atlanta it does raise some questions is one of any number of still unanswered questions but john burns thank you so much for helping us here and right now more general terms an assessment of the war so far beginning with today's briefing from the commander in charge from beard report from central command headquarters in guitar for the first time since the war began the

top commander general tommy franks met with the international media at his headquarters in qatar emphasizing the coalition war he says he's fighting crimes was flanked by officers from britain australia denmark and the netherlands he said the operation was going according to plan i mean again by saying this will be a campaign unlike any other in history campaign characterized by shock by surprise but in one of precise munitions on a scale never before saying and by the application of overwhelming force general vincent brooks us central command operations officer use plasma video screens to display combat footage the screens are part of a two hundred seventy five thousand dollar hollywood designed tv set created for sen tom press briefings colson special operations forces entered iraqi at night at destroying iraqi military outpost as this for video shows you'll see two clips that first as an outpost along the border the second is a building that

supported observers onboard are crossing maritime forces have destroyed iraq a naval forces as the fallen video shows this is a patrol boat being attacked from the air and a moment to say the secondary explosion completing its destruction they're also very active and assign to the waterways remain open and on the mind of so that iraqis not cut off from aid that is prepared to flow in general franks then took questions for some forty minutes he was asked if negotiations were underway with senior iraqi political and military leaders i will say that what we have ongoing dialogues as i think was mentioned in the pentagon report yesterday with a number i'll say iraqi officials and so those those discussions of both with people in uniform and non uniform will continue and hours and there's a hit crites was asked to describe the kind of opposition his forces were encounter our forces on the ground to include our

special operations forces have been having that encountered enemy formations on a number of occasions in a number of places and though and the fight has been joined in and in several places inside are wracked with respect to your senses and around baghdad we i think it was pretty evident last night that there was a lot of growing up in america it is obvious that the regime continues to move your friends assets around as best you can for the purpose of survival we'll continue to do our work with these magnets an airman and over time will take down all of your friends that would really fit that exist to serve there were friends and what can you tell us about success in attacking so called regime targets or can you tell us what you know of the state his whereabouts or health of saddam hussein with respect to

what's going on with the regime right now i think that there is confusion there is that is going on within within the regime i believe command control is not exactly as advertised on baghdad television i believe that we should all be very confident that the application of force that's going into that country is designed to be so precise that it avoids in every way possible exposure of non combatants and with respect to the first part of your question i think i'm not actually out i don't talk about strategic targets in and so what we're talking about is emerging powers emerging power its candy leadership courts they can be i can be military formations they can be some communication mobile communications capability that the

regime hares and on and on several occasions at this point in fact we have attacked emerging virus so within the last twenty four hours gentle rice was asked about the status of basra iraq's second largest city we have seen a regime position weapons in and around her purse so its civilian facilities and such author we have not seen large numbers of formations and the us are intent is not to to move through in and create to create military confrontations in that city rather we expect that that will work with author and the citizens of author the same way i believe has been widely reported an imposter what we're saying up to this point is though is that the rockies are welcoming their forces when they come in and so once again this is about liberation and not about occupation and soul artists are will be to work with the civilian populations and an buzzer rice was asked if the report of movement

of turkish troops and the hotly disputed kurdish area of northern iraq would complicate his plan actually i believe that the performances that we see in northern iraq however like for missions we see them move in and out of turkey there is continuing discussion i know at the political level to decide exactly how much of that win is acceptable and so forth general franks and the briefing the same way it began by offering his personal condolences to the families of the service men have been killed he called a wonderful young people who have made the ultimate sacrifice more on the military campaign now and to go an artful for tonight's assessment of the wars progress we turned to three military men with expert experience retired air force colonel sam gardiner teaches military operations and planning is a longtime consultant to the defense department retired army colonel patrick lang is a former special forces officer and defense attache and the middle east he was cheap middle east analyst with the defense intelligence agency during the gulf war a retired marine corps colonel

gary anderson he's committed troop formations at every rake sarkar combat in somalia and has focused extensively on urban combat operations he's now with the consulting firm gentlemen welcome again we're targeting use you tonight to walk us through tiny prices creeping be translators for us if you will i'll call wang one of the interesting points you made was the decision to bypass basra the second largest city i'm in in iraq what why why would why would they do that well designers and planted in the one is collecting about particular is in the ideas that the army would there and so western axis the early on several different routes and across the euphrates river last area of baghdad and the marine corps original score size force is expected to advance a blind in the east and ryan the baghdad areas near simultaneously with the army force we can afford to leave that for somebody down from a buzzer beaters and the army forces is really not big enough to

have to deal with the dead when they get there as i understand the british left behind deal of buzzer and i don't believe in ten who have tried to say that the city is so big and the situation is so uncertain is that marine colonel saying that that's the worst thing are there is there a risk and that i don't think there's much risk that there's some surprising i think when and that is we'd been led to understand that when they expect the last three to four to open arms to the attack if this is a regular division this defining and we had expected but was a sense out of them so this is somewhat of a surprise they were bypassing at risk i don't think much of the force is over and they're can't project combat power you know you can afford to bypass them you can isolate them in the city and they really aren't a threat here for the robert this currency the hour the need to help them to bypass last day i think really has to

be almost the first earth circled our service people momentum others say this attack going to certainly don't need right now you can always turn around and deal with it later you were is it's not just something that day you need from a logistic standpoint you have a southern porter justice report will assess the center of gravity is baghdad or regime change is job one thats where they the infrastructure for that regime is that a gift or that they'll ruin but there are elements of this situation as a lot of war ii vietnam the intelligence not formally and i'm and my function is to draw attention to anomalies and in this there some anomalies developing here is says sam say there's you know we worked at the plant the planter he was drawn to the idea that the regular army would not be a problem with the people would welcome and that no matter how you wish to describe what happened there has been some resistance from forces in fact that according to weight was

expected ago should not have resisted or a nursery and cost third buzzer and i wonder what that says for the future of the plan which is predicated on the idea that that will help but there is also predicated on the on the idea that they would be able to do these back channel negotiations with iraqi leaders is that does that seem like it's stalled at this point i would say probably not as evidence i would show what happened i didn't like the last night of the bombing does come down it was not the kind of air operation we would have expected given that we were told yesterday that we're now beginning that i had to turn the shock and our part but it didn't this was not awful this was probably republican guards on the outside of the city but this is a reduced air operation now so but i interpret that as saying that negotiating with us will hold back and let's talk about this

back to translation emerging targets we heard general franks is not to say that that was the pope is what our emerging top targets were to fall rodman example movement artists got past that the idea they they shoot to move the short distance they tried again and other very hard to restart a fine but now got troops in iraq aren't fasting every county is trying to stop him on the grouch hope will be a lot easier than the last call for all the overall movement are this is a decision that are if you remember there was some controversy journey of the afghan campaign how concerning our civilization of the targeting process get lawyers involved of all apps are fine but derek had to send fans credit there was very wary a lot of people are civilians of all that really a potential for a lot of them for a while mistakes to

be made and where is their effects on how were they are the nice thing about this is an assault the open desert you can't you can't mistake it's god forbid we would withdraw and as a scot and so on that team sees it is growing and the only lot faster but what about her lens pointed out that the health and the anomalies which is to say the resistance which may be greater than their admit it right now and i corsi is intelligence baggies and inquire really nice post look for those about analogies and so forth the the interesting thing is that there's some something your girlfriend his right and things are not going well because of all the bridges across major water obstacle to be kept it were on journalists were literally you know a girl you know conducting information briefing like the howdy doody show stated yesterday a lot of things just that seemed you know i knew this is the mother of all the

subsidies we give saddam an academy award tomorrow night or or or the slate is very disappointing and said the first line i think we have to remember we're dealing with a third world country and a third were alarming you know and that they have ambitions to do things the way we give them the west that they often don't succeed in fact and i have a large concrete bridges that that goal i think it's a dance than not an easy mark at all and the problem i think is from the wardrobe when his plan is it from what i hear in the arab world and i talk to people or lot is the legend is already starting to grow that there are fighting us to stand still in fact that they are doing well against us and in this legend is growing up her near where we cannot afford to lose momentum in this part of the law because if you provide us with a map which is a theory of how american ground troops are punching through the dead their study on one road again splitting off was a kid well again i would say the thing about this secret

this comes from looking at the map once you get to where we are now and i think the roads which are on the roads the hard surface you can go fast thanks to break down as much as we were talking earlier that you the marines the notion is they will go up the side now that the army's across the third infantry division across the euphrates what they encounter is a series of five roadside confirmed by data in nineteen eighty one the plan needed to baghdad the idea was to spread forces all those roads and the reason so that you can very quickly get to the outskirts of the city so my notion is that that's what will expect to see me tomorrow and then what's going to happen is we're going to get into contact with both of these forces with republican guard units for the first time and we understand that these forces are split up into five different in fifth place are easier to call it depends on who you're fighting

and we're fighting yeah i worry a lot more about my lies vindication of those of who are and they aren't amounts of post war or the jungles of the amount i'd be a lot of very worried about the fact that we're an open terrain with a beer security and ability larson to see at night when they try to move by i see the potential for one z to z ambushes on a lot of restaurant i don't see major you know i don't see a major involvement to cutoff airlines their faces are inert at various things it's possible to do now frank says today i was asked today about weapons of mass destruction when in whether any have been discovered so far and his answer in a roundabout way was not so far sesay is a big open question insurers in the early the administration made its case for for what has been taken here on that basis in

fact to the world and humor people or else and our intern is certainly important to everything else going on here that that such weapons before but i would also at the skirts there'd been talk of possibly twenty four or twenty five he knows he's very careful today not to call the missiles are fired skirts he called them finland something like that but as far as we know there have been those goods which was part of the allegations in heavily likely the discussion there and i thank you very much for joining us and still to come on the newshour tonight the television war and the perspectives of beschloss johnson welcomes smith includes right now reporting and watching war in real time and again to our media correspondent karen smith this is what they were is over vietnam was the living room war on american television than the

nineteen ninety one of the storms first satellite then real time to this twenty first century know your voices have been heard in the first two days such as that a veteran war correspondent peter arnett maine reporting for national geographic explorer and nbc is descriptions made operation iraqi freedom sound like what it is we run and the first goal he reported live from baghdad and for cnn this war his death while the military is using state of the art weaponry like pilotless predator drones the media are employing some cutting edge technology of their own on some virtual viewed technology makes the battlefield look like a deadly version of the video where travel on this road

his viewers a sense armor units the video was made popular during the war in afghanistan technology makes the coverage more car sirens warned of possible listen more gas and warning against what my mind but technology is no protection against the very real dangers of war an australian journalist was killed today by a car bomb and correspondent carrie lot to her group of independent television news has our message right after coming under fire near the southern iraqi city no american journalism and wounded so far cnn us

the big difference in the coverage of their stories the arrangements under which some reporters are embedded or assign to travel with specific combat positions the nbc nightline ted koppel has been embedded with the us army third infantry division some of the reporters embedding with troops have not been able to sort of day because of the military's concerns about compromising operational security they are probably watching something that is somewhat historic defense secretary donald rumsfeld acknowledged the importance of vetting process but cautioned at the close of the union is not always complete and what we're seeing is not the war interact with what we're seeing are slices of oregon

we're seeing that particular rise perspective that that report was a commentator for that television camera happens to be able to see at that moment and it is not what's taking place what you see is taking place to be sure but it is one slice and it is the totality of that that is what this war is about syracuse university professor robert thompson sees some potential pitfalls in embedding process the danger to the and vetting process is that when you are part of the troops that you're going in with these are your fellow human beings as you are being potentially shot at together and i think there is a sense that you become part of that group in a way that a journalist doesn't necessarily want to be professor johnson argues that there are advantages and disadvantages for high tech coverage the tyranny of the visual those nights where all that bombing was going on was so spectacular was so interesting to see that essentially blows everything else it your brain whatever analysis whatever

background whatever context in history might be being reported tends to be overwhelmed by the fact that you so focused on these images the likes of which we've never seen as long as the media connection remains intact that the lights stay on in baghdad officials from both sides can engage in verbal combat in iraq information minister made his director the american viewing art and now american networks have been sharing resources as well when the shark and also bombing began friday us networks broadcast a live feed from abu dhabi television or al jazeera the pan arab satellite channel as the war continues strains are developing that may ultimately reduce cover and it is that

very much more difficult work in the days after the bombing libya we're not like he's a satellite phone after months on porting for mango cnn correspondent nick robertson and crew were expelled this weekend by a rocking of our allies jonathan eisen for their perspective on this war canoes our regulars presidential historian michael beschloss journalist author james johnson richard norton smith director of the dole institute at the university of kansas and roger wilkins professor of history at george mason university joining longtime ideas dianne collins formerly a professor of diplomatic history at yale she's the author of butter and guns america's cold war economic policy michael as a matter of history has there ever been a war like this before now there hasn't oliver probably said that about most wars in america

history is unique but you know this is an example of a lawyer i think historians tend to say this but we set because it's true certain things we cannot know now that we will know twenty years from now and we know how this all turns out one thing that i think is part of american history that we're seeing and that is that presidents oftentimes take gambles they do things that if they go sour could get them in the country conceivably a lot of trouble if they go extremely well could lead to some very good things and years from now when we know how this has turned out well how will be much better able to judge whether it was an arabic to some extent i think what the president is not doing is he takes refuge in the fact that what really is important in the end is how history looks why is what about the year that the press part of the park that day to carry was just talking about on the ri our ability to see all of these sites like to be a great idea

we were all a part of the scene here and they're right about that and he had these images to you know forget the end and you get on the same way i have a tangle of conflicts i watch you to see these things go out and i feel enormous pride and our military forces proud of the journalists were covering the war for the older couple where there are young people and you have other i don't agree with officer who says that while your brain out of all the things i'm also saddened by the fact that we're or i think it is historic i think this is a different kind of war that ran a preemptive kind of where that changes the way we live with the rest of the world so although stakes in there and you were watching it as it happens all wars as the secretary defense said are just a little slice of reporting from the scene and later on as michael says so probably you kind of put together what really happened we don't know that last turn richard are you and you've been watching that the war seem so regularly and religiously what you thought when he would yell what you would you would you think when you see all of this well

you know it's interesting is all in a somewhat cynical i had aged says generals always liked to fight the last war i think that after this week we may have to rewrite that to armchair generals fighting the last war because this is a totally new war there's a new word has been coined the cycle can at xo is though knew it had a pronounced anti zionist entity if you will as i understand it it means the simultaneous application of force via calibration of force which is critical and the integration of force along with sophisticated diplomacy psychological warfare operations all intended to try to isolate the iraqi regime from the iraqi people to confuse that regime ultimately to destroy it and if all goes well to validate the administration's claims that this is a war of liberation not occupation well general frank said the day there as he says direct quote was there has never been a war like this in history never been a military campaign like this in history you are great

absolutely in park that's that's a standard that's true and so many levels there's never been a war with this kind of sophisticated weaponry but at the same time as i say that the military campaign is so integrated seemingly so integrated with the political and the diplomatic requirements that that frame the whole operation angles at bat what what kind of history do you think has been made of this moment now we don't know as michael said we have no idea how this thing is going to turn out and what what will of what will be finally written about it but what what inclinations do you have right now about the nature of this war as it as it goes down one moment and time this is the first world wide web war and what that has meant is we've gone from a nation of listeners during world war two when people relied on the radio to a nation owe television watchers in vietnam and the gulf war two nation editor people more interested not

only look at television they look at the internet and they patched together bloggers conspiracy theories whomever they want and they pick and choose which information to the league and what this means is that we have a much more information than we've ever had before but at the same time it means that the administration is going to find it harder to control what people think you may know that and i think it's going to make it much more difficult for them to frame the terms of victory because they have had so little control over the information the people of the play and that's continuing as we speak because they had these five hundred reporters for instance out with the troops that with what's going on on the internet all these things put together that which are saying absolutely either it's possible for somebody to take the british covers libya for five newspapers in the morning with the arab media coverage looking at the french coverage all at home while they're watching american airports there's never been so much a mediated information coming into the general public

but you're wasting about this work that you're seeing when you see this four well it's like watching a sports event because it never goes away when you turn on the television and you can always find it and so instead of tomorrow morning finding out if we took boss or you look and say well we're around basra now have we gone in and how many people have been killed and eight were watching it with a much smaller bites than we have ever been able to do before that's that's one part of the second part i like to go by to a point that professor cause baby clothes that she's right about this being the first internet war policies write about our hairy more information than we've ever had before but we've never had people who were embedded in our armed

forces the way we have them now an oppressive like i watched david blum of nbc and he's racing across the desert in a military vehicle with two soldiers well essentially these guys are the same fossil hands that has to color how you approached the war certainly is a far cry from say halberstam and sheehan and those photos and vietnam who were independent of the armed forces and therefore sent back reports that were grading it irritating to the powers that be that is much less likely to happen from our journalists who were embedded i think is a truth is and i know that they workers

they american correspondents went in with the troops that land with the troops they shared the fossils and so forth a little fun well bombing runs cronkite day bombing runs over german what's different about this that's not change the tone was different but that they could leave and move from place to place for combating means us viewers scripted to one particular unit and our educators move back and forth as they did in vietnam so but the american correspondent always went until recently with the troops that we want to be when you step back and let a larger piece of great periods they did after vietnam and this is a new this is rick so my return is very much so and i think through the pentagon's credit and smarter smart to do it and have access to the pictures are dramatic the people are there we will get stories that that what we will find out what was happening in the individual units they won't tell us the whole story of the war is michael slager michael is

not is a historian but as a consumer that this one that i'm somebody who's interested in what's going on in the war do you feel like you're getting the whole story now but you know what they were talking about their line of nbc or some of these others enhanced match and ernie pyle ernie pyle was killed in world war two and god forbid something happened luma one of these other inventors reporters who we've seen on tv every single day will across the desert think what the effect of that could be an american support for this war someone to have an emotional connection with you know what it's like to be in that desert sunlight something horrible happens would have an inordinate effect on the way that americans look on this war it's excess whether we should be there are you concerned about that the embedded reporting it won't distort the picture we get over the fact that it will but i think that happens with any kind of reporting especially in wartime because for instance we mainly see the bombing of baghdad we don't see the bombing of other cities and if you look and don't we listen very closely to what was being said over some

these pictures we see on tv you might think that the only bombing that's occurring is in the iraqi capital we got all just always remember that everything we're seeing is sort of a shadow on the wall it's only to mix a metaphor the tip of the iceberg of what we will learn a month from now on especially years from now thank you just say no there were given an awful lot of there were getting enough or you say we're getting enough information about this or do you feel as an individual it you know what's going on tonight i don't i'm sure i don't know the whole picture as michael said it's very hard to know everything is weak we're seeing the first cut not till later cards but we're getting many more sources of information and what i think is interesting we talk about the tyranny of the picture is that we're living in the post forrest gump eight so there are many people who will look at pictures and they will say oh well that's right i know they have those techniques i know they can use digital computer imagery to change things we have many more and better pictures at

a time when many people are far more skeptical than they used to be about the validity of the picture whether in saying that of course the big mystery is saddam hussein this is saddam hussein alive or not they keep shown picture having let them make their own one that were taken in all all of that richard iii do you feel that you're you're missing something well as a historian sir i mean it was all it was like to be a campaign i mean i have product of sitting around the table i'm greedy it that's that's the mark of a historian but no i think it professor comes right i feel like i have more options for information than ever before i'm not naive enough to think that i have the whole story i and indeed we may not have the whole story for decades until some of these documents become available and then the like but i i feel like i have access to more than in the past and one other thing got to take a pickup or appointed michel mater we're about presidents and taking write taking gambles in effect

and that is in fact what we elect presidents to do but there are all kinds of risks are all kinds of campbell's monica lewinsky was a risk so as korea so was our decision a provision fort sumter in at sixty one i we build memorials the president's it's no secret that the holy trinity of american presidents lincoln washington and fdr our presidents remembered and revered today because they took enormous risks risks for principal and risks about something larger and no war then re election now it's a long time we won't know for perhaps years to come whether this risk the pays off in what leads to but it is certainly in that tradition you grew there under that whatever you think about going to war or whatever that george w bush as an individual president of the united states who literally rolled the dice of his presidency not only for the president but also for history by doing well i think so i do use a different metaphor and say what he said the other day that he wanted the

french and their rebuttals to show their cards in only show his guards i mean it's there and it has for president says whole place in history is on the table now and one of the things that we're not say is that this war has updated each of us and saddam because they're really this administration has really try to rearrange the world homes and so that a lot of what's going on is how much traction to sherlock have how close are you and oak where the chinese rethinking of all this because the court that's right and that and then we'll wait no what's going on here in this garden are not part of a new agreement that i do very much so and of course what we don't know down the road but i think that his presence making great role of the dice he's taking the country

that we don't know we enter the door that is different to great power comes out it comes out wonderfully democracy in a piece of love throughout the world will have underwear and he'll be real reform not rich or if not we have entered a different path than the great consequences that we don't know the answer and they went and you know as we had to go without that includes a server been was denied john thank you or and again the major war developments of the day and ray suarez us and british ground forces moved a hundred and fifty miles into iraq halfway to baghdad the us military reported progress in the battle for basra the country's second largest city and us troops crossed the euphrates river air raids on baghdad continued during the day and after nightfall there were also reports of loaded b fifty twos taking off from a base in england but al jazeera television reported the rockies have set

fire to wail around baghdad trying to obscure the city with smoke and late today members of the one hundred and first airborne division were attacked in their camp in kuwait with grenades and small arms fire and army spokesman said at least ten soldiers were wounded six of them seriously jim thanks again re will be here for another special war edition tomorrow night at six eastern time and we'll see you on line and our regular news our time monday evening for now i'm jim lehrer thank you and goodnight major funding for the news hour with jim lehrer is provided by the archer daniels midland company espy's see communications the corporation for public broadcasting and by viewers like you thank you the power

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