The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

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fbi good evening the major news of the day and our main focus tonight is on nuclear weapons the white house says the soviets have floated a new proposal in the euro missile talks in geneva we examine why

washington says it's unacceptable and we delve into the rising storm of anticipation anxiety and political controversies surrounding abcs movie about the effects of nuclear war the day after ruth also tonight some risk words between two congressional leaders over who's responsible for the thing called the federal deficit so reflective words from a reporter was in jonestown guyana five years ago when nine hundred and twelve people took their own lives and some reporting words on a greyhound bus strike the confirmation of william clark and yasser arafat fight eleven on among other things the macneil lehrer newshour is funded by at and t the corporation for public broadcasting and this and other public television stations as we said the top story of the day is the new soviet offer on european missiles in a few minutes we'll be looking at that in detail at what the russians have suggested and the us response but first the other main use of the day greyhound buses continued to run

today as the company tried a second day of limited operations in defiance of a nationwide strike a review outbreaks of violence but much less than yesterday one hundred and thirty two strikers were arrested for disorderly conduct more than twelve thousand greyhound drivers and other workers have been on strike since november second after rejecting a new contract calling for cuts in pay and benefits as yesterday the company meant the greatest resistance from union pickets in boston boston thank you leila thus he was wrong in london president of the local laborers union he was taken to a hospital but his injuries were not serious in

scottsdale arizona leaders of greyhound unions voted to reject a new company offer but agreed to submit it to rank and file vote all the same in return the union demanded the greyhound start running its business with non union or strike breaking drivers the companies said no in other domestic news the senate confirmed william clark as secretary of the interior to replace james watt the vote was seventy one do at a number of democratic senators appear to agree with minority leader robert byrd we said he was concerned with the unwise policies pursued by secretary water but believe clark would move towards more tranquil waters you're moving to the fore news of the day which means first update in what's now called the arafat watched the plo leader is still alive still in tripoli eleven on and still resisting syrian backed plo rebel attempts to kill him or get him out of the country troops loyal to him did stage an early morning surprise counterattack on the rebels over the bow the refugee camp today heavy fighting was reported but there were conflicting reports on the outcome there is a report by philip hayden of the bbc

that said yesterday they've loved only a battle not or today they took their revenge on the rebellion brother's nothing in their assault on the tally included rocket and artillery power out to the effect or devastating ms bee was born you didn't open in the mediterranean at the polling of the eleven and would let people in the novel it and they want the palestinians

to do nothing to him do you really and being on the road in the nineteen nineties on cypress the news is also continued stalemate from one of talk not more us middle east negotiator don rumsfeld turned up unexpectedly today in ankara turkey reportedly to discuss the secession this move today by the turkish community on cypress who declare themselves on the northern third of the island an independent state united states and most other nations of the world have condemned the step united nations security council is considering a british

resolution calling for its reversal and debate on his resume the second man and there is another casualty update on grenade at us military spokesman said today forty five remains were killed in the fighting on the island instead of twenty two has previously reported there was no explanation given for the new figure and there was no change in the american death toll of at the white house confirmed today that the soviets have floated a new proposal on european missiles that the administration said it did not seem acceptable the proposal has two new elements moscow offers to drop its previous insistence that french and british nuclear missiles be included in the count and to lower the number of soviet medium range missiles to one hundred and twenty of these proposals were contingent on the us not deploying any of the five hundred seventy two crews are racing in europe the offer was made informally in geneva last week by the soviet led the

negotiator you make that sounds good through his american counterpart paul nitze it became known last night when west german chancellor helmut kohl said in a television interview at one minute to twelve the soviet union has apparently advancing new proposals the first of the pershing muscles are doing west germany next to because if in a major debate the parliament reaffirms bonds decision to take part in the nato deployment earlier this week the united states formally modified its own negotiating position offering to reduce the number of us missiles deployed to one hundred and forty white house spokesman larry speaks said today the new soviet proposal does not indicate any change in the fundamental soviet goal of maintaining a sizable monopoly on missiles and he added the united states will not accept any agreement that legitimizes the soviet monopoly it is not a fair offer here to explain further the us reaction to the soviet offers richard byrd assistant secretary of state for european affairs one of the key us officials involved in the art control issues for such sectarian castle so in those

agencies late this afternoon that there really wasn't a new all furthered that the germans were wrong could you clarify what happened earlier this week in what we're talking about here a gentle try to clarify we just seeing this test a plan and i think it refers to this question of whether or not they are dropping their demand to be compensated for british and french systems they are saying that they still want to be compensated and certainly that's our understanding that money go back compensated meaning you know cruz no more no no version that's exactly right ok at the weekend the soviet said that if we made a proposal which called for reductions of five hundred and seventy two missiles if we made that proposal they would be prepared to respond favorably and we told them is that if you have a proposal to make you should think we've as sir robin pointed out made a recent proposal and we would be prepared to listen to what the soviets had to say what his proposal said in essence was and this was delivered informally

formally subject in geneva to answer that's right and that's what this proposal says is that they will reduce their already overly large this is twenty fours to about one hundred and twenty s s twenties and each one of those is his twenties has three war had some three hundred and sixteen war but that the united states will not be permitted to deploy anything is larry speaks indicated we don't think this represents any real progress because nate continue to maintain a formidable capability against our allies in europe and were not permitted to deploy a single muscle our proposal is you know cause for us soviet equality as that one about the additional point that they that the soviets have indicated that their own willing i mean they are now willing to drop its insistence that the missiles and in great britain and france also be counted in this camp of changes melissa because he all along they said we want to maintain a substantial force you get zero and the reason that we maintain a substantial

force is because of the existence of the british and french forces all they're saying now is we keep a large force united states gets zero but we won't count the british and french systems that in fact they are if they're not counting the british and french forces they're actually saying that for some reason that we can't understand or explain that they deserve a monopoly that they have some right to be able to threaten europe but europe has no equivalent right to threaten the soviet union in addition they said that they want a count the british and french forces and some other negotiations so it appears to us that they want a cap the british and french forces twice this park with this say about not being compensated and the imf talks they want to be able to keep their forces but no us forces but at the same time they want to help the british and french forces in another negotiation so from the us perspective there's actually nothing known as the really isn't it's old wine in new bottles all along in these negotiations the soviets have said we should be able

to retain those assets twenty missile force which has been building up all through the negotiations but you shouldn't be able to deploy and we've argued that if we cant do away with these mussels altogether which was the original proposal the president made that we should at least have equal level and that's what our proposal is a problem pointed out what the soviets had their one hundred and fourteen missiles or another number smaller the soviets would go below hundred and forty maybe down one hundred and twenty but we want an equivalent us capability there's nothing here even to talk about where are we prepared to talk and we have told the soviets that if they make a formal proposal will sit down and discuss it with now as you know the soviets have indicated they're not indicated they'd set fly that if the persians and the crews missiles are in fact more than a year a walkout of these negotiations in geneva you still expect that to happen i think it could happen if it does happen it would be very strange we've negotiated for two years now and all through that period the soviet union has built up its essence twenty four hours and it's a bit strange that

if we started calling it wants to negotiate particularly when we said very clearly that if we can achieve an agreement following the point that we're prepared to withdraw those muscles any missiles we deport sector thank you robin not on arms control expert who thinks the new soviet offer is a significant proposal he's got blacker assistant director of the center for international security and arms control of stanford university who joins us tonight to public station kqed in san francisco our director how important do you think this suggestion is i think it's important but primarily because it indicates that the bargaining hasn't stopped that in fact the kremlin is concerned about the prospect of installation of the key to some the ground launch cruise and that they would like to strike a deal even now and i think it is a strong indication that they are prepared to continue moving right up to the point in time at which those first a pt who's become operational at the end of this year what do

you say to be out to mr burts reaction that essentially there is nothing new they still want to keep their monopoly well i think it's important to keep in mind that so what may not strike us is new may in fact be new from the perspective of the soviet union ah i have felt all along that the soviets are prepared to compromise to the extent that they would consider the reduction of the ss twenties that are targeted on your down to a number of about one hundred which is the number that were operational four years ago when the alliance made up its mind to proceed with the deployment of the peaches and the kurds say what do you think the administration response to those serb feel or should be ah i think it should be fairly close to what was indicated by rick byrd and that is that if the soviets are prepared to put this in terms of a formal offer that the united states will be prepared to

talk about it you think that the fact that the soviet union may now be showing as chancellor kohl put it some flexibility at one minute twelve that indicates that the reagan administration tactic of not yielding on deployment is paying off i guess i did i think that the one thing that's so yuri andropov and his colleagues understand is that the game of international politics is a hard one is a tough one and i think it was important for this administration to convey furnace to the kremlin and i think that's been done and i think now is the time to strike a deal el dia does being other times i could be you know make you think that perhaps they are west of that nato and the united states since of supplying the missiles should consider delaying deployment of them now like no i do not yeah i think if i am if the two sides are as prepared as they seem to be

in and my mind to bargain i think it is important largely for political reasons to continue with the preparation for the installation of the peaches mr burr term or are we just turned up workers at things that is a similar proposal do that indicates the soviets really want to make a deal i hope they do we wanted to negotiate seriously in geneva we haven't been able to do so so far because the soviet union has insisted that it maintains large force and then we can't deploy if they're prepared at this stage to recognize that some form of us soviet equality is necessary for an agreement but they cannot maintain their monopoly then know we can get an agreement i just want to make very clear that the chances for achieving an agreement will not disappear

if and when deployment starts we want to stay at the negotiating table as long as necessary to achieve equitable outcome you say it that way not a black or that the only way to get an agreement is for the soviets to accept some kind of equality yeah i think i would argue that it is importance perhaps in principle for the two sides to have the right to deploy eagle an air forces i do not believe that it is essential that the united states actually install in ep to soar in a ground launch cruise in order to establish the principle of equality if i can out on that i mean that it might be possible to reach some kind of an accord by which the soviet union agrees to reduce the number of nurses twenties targeted on europe to about one hundred in return the united states would be granted the right in principle to deploy an equal number of imf p to support

ron launch crews that doesn't mean that the united states has to then proceed to deploy them what would be the point of that from the western that that would deny the west be equaled deterrent capability that the soviets have against western europe i don't think so because there are other ways in which the united states can very effectively prevent the outbreak of war in europe you don't need a ground launch cruise missiles near the pershing twos and i don't think there are too many strategic analyst who would argue that they are essential to the preservation of deterrence with the administration exempt anything were so subtle is were dr walker's of justin bieber and i think this is on one issue i have to disagree with my old friend chip black or i think we do believe that if the soviet union is going to deploy a large force of ss twenties against western europe and we need to us missiles on european soil provides some to turn impact we want to make it very clear that the security of europe is coupled

with the american strategic air defense there's been a lot of press speculation and leaks by soviet diplomats amplified by the press that either the last meeting or the next meeting or the one after that the soviets are going to walk out how do you read that i think it's true i think in fact they have set for so long that they will suspend the imf talks about the point at which the first out pershing twos become operational that in fact i think they will walk out just a almost exactly as they said that does not mean necessarily that will be the end of the imf process but it means for a period of time at least they are going to protest the peaches by walking out and i think we can take them at their word that they presented and you noticed it should be doing to prevent their working out or keep them from working on yeah i think we are proceeding it in a manner that was designed specifically to keep them there and that is to accuse them of being the ones who are not truly interested in arms control if in fact they walk out mr

secretary the west german parliament next week as having what's being billed as a major debate is there any anxiety in the agreement in washington that because of all the protests in the streets of germany and elsewhere in europe that the germans the political will maybe shaken and the vote may go against the point no not one bit robin chance for calling a west german foreign minister hans dietrich genscher of handled this problem very well they are having this debate within the backdrop of a number of parliamentary debate in europe including recent debates in italy and britain and the netherlands and belgium where all these european parliaments have supported the point man in the absence of an agreement so we're satisfied that so when the debate is helping when the vote is taken that the german bundestag will support the german government on going forward with the point in the absence of a concrete results not a black or is the failure of the anti missile

movement across western europe so far to change the minds of many of the key governments have agreed to deploy is the is that a considerable i said a defeat for the soviet union in this case and making their position engineer honor oh yes i think it is it is a tactic that the kremlin has tried before they've been more successful in the past because frankly they've been more but more sophisticated in their attempts to manipulate west european opinion they were not very creative this time around they have failed and it is i think an important setback for them during this real world debate the one we've just been listening to about nuclear missiles in europe is about to have a work of fiction layover at which some believe could have an enormously but not back on american public opinion about nuclear war it's a movie about a nuclear attack in kansas called the day after and it will be shown on abc television sunday night as a matter of history it's already the

most talked about worried about television presentation ever and charlayne hunter gault has that story shrine one of the reasons the day after is one of the most talked about made for tv movies in history is that it's been one of the most written about advance screenings that have gone on for the past several weeks have generated longer than usual press reviews and essays as well as front page stories that worries over the seven million dollar film have also generated front page stories the washington post reported today that the reagan administration was apprehensive that the film could heighten fear is about president reagan's hand on the nuclear trigger that administration spokesman larry face denied the post reports that a public relations counter attack was planned nevertheless secretary of state george schulz will appear on a forty five minute studio discussion on abc following the film anti nuclear groups here and in europe have generally hailed the film conservatives like the reverend jerry

falwell have already denounced the film as propaganda for a nuclear freeze and disarmament falwell has urged a boycott of the program's sponsors which abc ads some difficulty attracting in the first place a high frontier an organization which advocates singing space with killers that whites to work nuclear attack has prepared public service bots to answer the movie fame for a look at why all this commotion out the film we have with us the person who reports on asian he is eric named tv and radio critic for the st louis post dispatch he is with us at night from saint louis eric why is there all this commotion about this film there's commotion about the film because it's tremendously powerful in the conventional sense i suppose you could say that by the the normal yard sticks it we judge films by it's not a very good film or a lot of cinematic flaws but in the end those are irrelevant because the yacht the power of theatrical message is so overwhelming keep his family worry me that i

lived in one detail well i don't think you can you can sit there and watch the yoga world destroyed utterly and in virtually totally nc survivors of a nuclear holocaust or who are really less well off than the people who were killed instantaneously and not be a very deeply affected by it and instantly television terms how unusual is it and what is the importance of it i think it's unusual in that number one it's getting so much now on television press attention i mean as you pointed out this is dominating or at least a plane commonly in the news pages as well the administration has spoken out on it and as you pointed out will be making a secretary shortz earlier widely available what began meeting would be granted coverage if it weren't on television if it were in the movies for example i that's hard to say the the film the china syndrome

attract a great deal of attention because it happen to coincide with the three mile island disaster so there's that it's conceivable were there to be a gap some sort of nuclear brinksmanship about to take place at the scene would get a great deal of attention even if it were playing theatrically the television and in the whole essence of television has its immediate dent and ubiquitous distribution system so this film will be seen by far more people in one night than than any motion picture would be seen and then probably most of its run the average viewer for example well i think that a depressed and it certainly at a devastating thing to watch i know when i watched it i felt physical changes there were there are points in the film at which my i started brief sort of rapidly on and my heart pounded like you cried a few times but that's a crime is not necessarily a judge of the picture but to be so

sort of totally taken by the the other desolation see an end utter hopelessness really is is quite a devastating experience it's and in fact i find it kind of humorous that that television which is criticized so much by myself included for being so shallow and for not dealing with the with issues and not being willing to tackle controversy is now being criticized for up for affecting people so strongly in so deeply on an issue of of unmistakable importance just very briefly in a word do you think it's going to have a lasting impact it will have a lasting impact on the people who say that's not the kind of thing we forget they're there's a moment in the film that actually i found the most terrifying and it's just a scene of a long shot that during which you see the missiles all over the kansas countryside going off and i imagined standing up in my bedroom window and looking out there looking out and seeing

muscles going off and knowing what that meant i mean that was the moment when you know it's all over eric tv critics and worried politicians aren't the only ones who've been preparing for the day after several educational and medical groups many sympathetic to the nuclear freeze movement had been issuing brochures and announcements about the movie especially its potential impact on children the national education association has sent out a parent advisory on the film watching that children should not be allowed to watch it alone national association of independent schools sent warning letters to its one thousand member schools and many school sent letters home to parents abc put out a viewer's guide to the movie and made available to school groups a short preview version of the film you give us a short viewers guide we turn now to an expert in mass psychological trauma he is dr robert lifton professor of psychiatry at yale university dr lipton is also a member of physicians for social responsibility which has campaigned against the arms race that they lived and

where you're like i just cared for the moment why do you think the war is a need a guide to the film will the film is devastating as eric think rightly said i think that viewers can be helped out of the can give them a clinical guidance or you do this and feel that they'll have their own responses and her own feelings but we can only say certain things about ages of children and certain expectations of feelings describe that that can be helpful like what ford family say well i personally and i'll speak for myself and it's an accord with with others in and physicians' groups but i think there's been too much stress and the focus of what age child can see what a child can see it i would say that the general principle should be open this sharing and support if a child wants to see the film i think there could be more harm done by preventing him or her from seeing it and children a part of this culture would be nice if there were a kind of a soft world a beautiful world that we less than that with that was a legacy to them were such things didn't have to be considered but

says the artist culture they've got a share much of this with us and we have to help them but why do they need a guide to this kind of thing when they see violence of all kinds on television all the time and what's different and that's one thing that's different about this film it should be said is that under conditions of so called ordinary violence or even war there is definite his recovery here it's the death of everything there's no recovery and in another scene in the film where jason rowe bards embraces an elderly survivor the two of them are about to die you have a sense for the end of the film this is the end of humankind and that has a very powerful impact in creating wealth puts one in kind of a box from which one can't quite get out because it's the end of the whole human experiment what levin how do you get in an ordinary household with her father mother and perhaps them one or two children that i mean how do you go about preparing to deal with it if you're not and if you just a layperson the issue is really an adult issue isn't the problem chilton is a

problem for adults and i think that it's very important to adults recognize there is value in feeling the pain because it's the actuality of what could happen and the potential value lies in the capacity to know what these weapons do and there are eight do something appropriate to combat them or at least prevent there being used so you would agree that i think i hear you saying the nea their children perhaps should not watch the film alone they should watch it with other adults or should watch with a dose of course that the whole thing should be shared and should be collective and then it should be supportive is one other point i'd like to make about this i think very crucial in which the film was very valuable you do touch the abyss as a viewer you can't help but then you step away from a television set and the world is still here we still have our imaginations however imperfect we can still do something that contrast between the hopelessness of the situation in which the weapons are used and the hope we still have with the world still hear our imaginations impact of doing something about it that contrasts is immensely

valuable for its content yes first to second term or so you've seen the movie not as the assistant secretary of state for european affairs of getting you on that role in a moment but just as richard bourke what was your reaction but gm it's a powerful movie and i think i reacted the same way as your film critic and her psychoanalyst and not a film critic so i can't comment on whether the movie was well made and i don't know how people are going to react but i certainly hope that the reaction of the public has a healthy one healthy concerned that we can do something about preventing a nuclear war there can be no debate about whether nuclear wars a good thing right now it's clearly a catastrophe it's not a political issue it's a human issue and i think we should recognize that it's not that we will be starting tomorrow to try to try to prevent nuclear war but that we have work for forty years to prevent a war and we have succeeded and we have to continue in that effort

what is the concern with an administration about this movie i'm not aware of any particular political concern it's clear that some groups would like to take advantage of the movie to push a particular policy whether it's the nuclear freeze or some other policy option but i think there's a general recognition that what we have to do is avoid war and i i certainly don't see the movie as a criticism of the reagan administration or any other set of policies but a very powerful very personal human statement that nuclear war cannot happen like a biker and sentences go what's your view of political potential for this could be in political terms or in public opinion of that in terms of public opinion turns it could affect government policy on nuclear arms well i think there's a prospect of waste that people will become even more concerned more motivated more convinced of the need to partake of the political process in the united

states and in that sense i think that's very positive my concern is that people understand that these questions have a context and that they owe it to themselves to spend time understanding that context you may illustrate in and understand the discussion brussels at un secretary were at a while ago that as the nation and listen to us yes if this serves as the starting point for people to become involved to afford for people to spend a lot of time time trying to come to grips with these problems then i think it will be an enormous success by fear is that people may withdraw rather than become more involved and that i think would be unfortunate varied media really feeling not on the politics necessarily but what the reaction would be would it be to withdraw or would it be to participate in whatever position you had sort of politically as a result st louis but it's difficult to predict and that certainly what is happen until now is that people have not been able to really approach the nuclear issue it's to terrify

the words we use to describe other potential nuclear war words like unthinkable an unimaginable and the day after takes the guesswork out of contemplating nuclear war it's right there on the screen you've got a bombs exploding and people dying in civilization being destroyed and the end and bring that to the surface you make it considerable you make imaginable unthinkable and in doing that i think i think it's really possible that people will be forced to work to bring this more to their consciousness a lot of people to say well it's it's too terrified we have to just trust our leaders and this and that and take whatever comes in and it's entirely possible that people will be exerting a great a great deal more pressure on in one direction or another whichever direction they feel is is going to have to eliminate the possibility of of all of us are disappearing well i think in the film there is implicit a kind of criticism not of the reagan administration i agree but of all the ministrations after all here is something that threatens the entire human future and what have we

done how much of our resources that we really put four to prevent it a very tiny little amount i think it's a critique of what we've done so far an implicit also in the film is that the reassurances of governance all governments are little bit hollow because structure is being created in the name of what's called security that could lead not to nuclear war between nuclear and there's no second chance so the logic of response to that kind of messages without too much more than a question assumptions we know it is really both the heart and the mind and full application and sectarian huerta sector shuttle going to be on after those programs under nine and i so it is that kind of assurance that the secretary shall try to give the american people but i think he will and i agree with the argument that we need new ideas and were certainly open to new ideas are what we have tried to do in three years for example when talking about nuclear arms reductions for the first

time in thirty five years of arms control as one of those new ideas joel courtney thank you very much robin in congress today to house members introduced a resolution asking abc in the us government to make the movie available for showing on soviet television one of the sponsors democrat dan glickman of kansas said it's important for people in the soviet union who believe in nuclear war is survivable to see its destruction and the fallacy of beverly we'll be back in a moment and and he's been us congress packed up for a two month break today after passing the biggest defense budget ever to hundred

forty nine point eight billion dollars that was the figure that came out of a two day conference between the two houses it is eleven billion less than president reagan wanted and it gives the president all the major weapon systems he was asking for including the amex missile would be one bomber the trident submarine and testing an anti satellite weapons the one thing he lost his approval to resume production of nerve gas after a fourteen year moratorium this request for continued covered a duet his sandinista rebels in nicaragua are faced strong resistance mr redden finally got twenty four million dollars but will have to get fresh congressional approval when the money runs out next summer judy woodruff has been looking further at what this congress has accomplished today robin in the eyes of some people the biggest story out of the congress as well it didn't do disagreements even within each party prevented any serious move to reduce the two hundred billion dollars annual deficits facing the government for the indefinite future there was also no resolution of a complicated and controversial issue of natural gas pricing or of immigration

reform but there were some things congress did achieve the house and senate did reluctantly go along with two presidential request for a hike in the debt ceiling the last one will permit the government to borrow almost a trillion and a half dollars last spring the congress averted a possible catastrophe and approved a big overhaul of the social security system including a raise in the retirement age and the way of benefits both parties collaborated on a four point six billion dollar jobs creation bill congress passed all thirteen appropriations bills for the next fiscal year as the defense budget the president asked for a ten percent increase in congress is voting now on a compromise that would give him about half of that it would still be the largest peace time defense budget in history as part of a compromise over the war powers act the president also won congressional approval for american troops to stay and additional eighteen months in lebanon

also the house killed an attempt to revive the equal rights amendment congress approved a national holiday in memory of dr martin luther king and two members of the house was censured by their colleagues for sexual misconduct involving teenage pages to assess this session of congress we sat down with two of its leaders this afternoon house democratic majority leader jim wright and senate republican majority whip ted stevens we ask what they think the major achievement so and we procedural probably the best news was something of the us we've gotten thirteen appropriations bills to the senate for the first time i think in sixty seventy years which is which means that the departments of government will run under specific instructions from congress rather than john once i think that's made it i think it made significant that an international matters war

powers and in the caribbean basin initiative international monetary fund and gangs of that character which may not be popular we have demonstrated to the world that we know partisanship sect fatalism and have shown the world at large that we are not so divided that the corrosive s its own internal political divisions are incapable back on the domestic scene i think we didn't know that that is my personal opinion as a spokesman for the democrats in the house couple of points you just raise there's some people who would say that the democrats and the president on a number of important issues an unfair picture perception out there the democrats as caving in i'm not sure that the public sees it that way i think the american public appreciates the fact that the democratic party has not tried to make political capital that

opposing for the sake of course in opposition or signs of the present attempts to do in the world at large i think that's where the public wants today on domestic issues we disagree arguing strongly forcefully we tried to reduce this gaping deficit the house passed a bill which would have raise some eight million dollars a year and reduce the deficit that that moment russia put a cap on the amount of anyone and interview me and the thirty year tax cut for the last day the senate did not changed all the president's threatened veto we tried to pursue a concept that area economic indicators for these new increase taxes and not just someone's acclaim in effect that what we did in nineteen eighty one was rival are supported by so support i think the senate was right the income tax reduction package of nineteen eighty one well i think the big the result of that

announcement excessive income tax reduction for the wealthiest to this aimless as the deficits ronald reagan's deficits tower above those of all other previous president here is a chart which depicts in graphic terms of the size of the deficit under every president and every year since world war two days of ronald reagan sits two hundred billion dollars plus this is a day early voting a review of a very busy with a deficit more or want to report today they came in the period in nineteen forty eight to nineteen fifty two they did not in these red lines are the red lines are easily from that from the program's of color in that four years ago our programs less person about a company that has one question to what extent is a closed higher than ever real actions that are choking off a chance to start the armies of the reagan that

as rates have no relationship with that that's the obama may have an effect on everest right that's right to what extent did each of you think that the public lands the congress or the inability of the government to get these deficits under control because in the united states has threatened to beat him in stacks the flow of revenue that created an excessive tax cut those of the house jacob tax bill this past week and we only thirteen republican votes even to take it up and let it come to the floor a bill which might have reduced

the deficit by some seventy three billion dollars that the words of the letter like that when you're seeking a suspension of the rules you know you can get it i support you know either the one product was was strictly political the right tax bill out of the committee won't know an insurgent two days before in on average than the non receded and the havoc that brought up and in the thing that's going to be a serious proposal is the american public is smarter than that they know what goes on the last few days in the state legislature of the national congress announce his political games as well but we have been talking about it and i didn't know i could be less financially when you think and distinguish this congress if anything in terms of style personality mood what sort of feeling you go away from this session with we have as far as i'm concern

that my job as far as the security the country is concerned they're just jobs for reforming so security presence but the basic thing we've done is we've helped the ship of stayed steady and we are going to have a good sustained recovery act we have demonstrated in this congress in spite of some of the disagreements that ted and i and i honestly at our respecting one large part of you that even in a divided government with the house and one party the senate in kurdistan another party the nation can survive both right and stevens disagrees with many political observers that the congress won't be able to accomplish much next year says it's an election year both of them older predicted that congress will be able to deal with controversial issues like the deficit and the clean air act if you've been with us regularly the last several weeks you know the work of charles cross the correspondent who on special assignment for us is done so we'll report on people and events in central america can it tonight is where this on tape and

embarrassing for a purpose that is more personal and journalistic because it was five years ago today the jonestown happen and the mass suicide of nine hundred and twelve people in the south american jungle of diana that shocked the world the dead were followers of a religious fanatic named jim jones you ordered them to drink poison kool aid and they did the suicide order followed a visit to jones coming style camp called jonestown by democratic congressman leo ryan on a party of americans that included several reporters ryan and four others were shot and killed as they attempted to fly away from a nearby airstrip one of those wounded but who survived was charles crops then a reporter for the washington post he later wrote a book about the whole affair and this week went back to california where it all began it's been jonestown remains

little more than a series of images images many people believe should be johnstown is nothing to be forgotten on their many cults in the world today and they're many cars in america i thought the jonestown is something that could happen again you know i feel that people need to be alert and remember wynona norwood lost her mother and twenty six other close relatives in guyana she believes the world should have learned from jonestown that her family should not have died in vain i feel that people should have tried to search jones out and find out before eleven that still remain families and children over to jonestown how really you know hundreds of those who died at jonestown are very to the evergreens cemetery in oakland california one of the norwood family is among them its new says

norwood who organizes the annual memorial service here to ensure the jonestown is not forgotten she also lectures to church groups ninety tonight by percentage in jones's church was black and he promised the black people that were in his church as well as the hispanic people an oreo people you know you're going to go we have our own community you will live with out racism he promised them a paradise for utopian and they believe that people have me a need for faith you know and got a and when someone has their programs so together as jones did to come along and stage fake yellings and eight messages such as what he did calling person's name's out and saying i'm god i know your name because haim got their other ministers out there other so called ministers that have their problems together on a smaller scale they're kicking children their molesting children they're you know taking families and dividing families of pork is i'm very strongly believe the

jails town could happen again i know that i was a lot of people over here that was long enough for trying to keep you from going and i guess i'm not going to mention the fa cup as a cult or religious organization the people's temple live along with jim jones in the jungles of guyana the temple headquarters in the united states iran very street in san francisco has been sold and is now the korean central presbyterian church the millions of dollars which jones hidden secret bank accounts all over the world i've now been recovered and finally dispersed by the courts but there were survivors about two hundred and fifty members of the people's temple who were either not in jonestown or who managed to escape a thirty odd years ago today most of them live in the bay area hewitt and they are willing to talk publicly about their experiences but we're told that they too are anxious the jonestown not be forgotten

many of the survivors to receive counseling at the university of california san francisco psychologist christopher hatter it's kept in close touch with the survivors over the years and is considered the leading authority on jonestown and caucus the waterways and some of the jones tells reporters can be compared to concentration can charge both groups tend to do relatively well in the day to day just on issues of both of them have very strong unresolved feelings for the rest of her life about what had happened in their lives and in particular how other people look at them and they try to save themselves as people and other disasters to there must be some point there must be some reason why this happens and so right now what they struggle with the most business in society in the world has largely forgotten about the temple it doesn't seem to be any less and more what should the world have learned

from this first so i think they're realizing look at that the social economic and educational structures that they were not psychotic they're not tremendously emotionally dependent people there people from all walks a lot and what happened was that they get caught up in a tree needlessly psychologically sophisticated operation and this can happen to anybody all of us like to feel invulnerable i like to look at that so that could never happen to me the reality is this does point out that it could happen to practically anyone would like to go back and look at the types of family environments that these people grow up with their values were those types of issues and unfortunately because of concerns that various funding groups whether this infringes on religious freedom whether it potentially could infringe upon our religious freedom we've not been able to secure the type of money i think that the most dramatic thing for me as a traveling different parts are oh the world has to realize that even in very isolated areas

people know where jones to show they know about the guyana dates for many people it's a brother modern and modern vision of hell what is equally dramatic and probably more disappointing is the fact that people are able to see this vision and yet then it's dismissed those know look what the reasons are how we can prevent it is just a generic version of the image fb dr kraus what is your view of what should be forgotten as an aberration jim i think that if jonestown worth the people's temple were unique then probably we could forget about it but it appears that some three to five million americans are in these groups of one form or another and there are other groups out there that i think are equally dangerous equally violent ashley while to others or to

themselves and i think that probably we should learn or should have learned something from jonestown and probably more work more research more attention should be paid to groups like this one but it hasn't been played up that you don't think enough attention has been paid actor fact george tell her i don't think so the house foreign affairs committee recommended four years ago that the government fund research into the psychology of calls at the irs review its tax exempt and rulings in these groups and nothing's happened if the personal arsenal versus charles won't affect event is that experience down there five years ago well i have to say five years ago today i was on a runway diana being shot at and i was hit and thought i was going to die and so i think anyone who's gone through an experience where they sort of see coming it affects the way there they look at life and

i was in a personal level i live more for the moment more for the day rather than putting things off into the future professionally i am i made a decision and that i was not going to spend the rest of my career writing about cold sore arm that sort of thing and i've gone back to what american that's where i'd been ferocious fighting all been blessed because of this decision that was oh it's thank you very much before we go there's a recap of today's top stories the soviets and formally offered a new proposal one european missiles the white house said it was unacceptable congress prepared to adjourn until january they passed a record defense budget but took no action to deal with the government deficits although it did approve a bill to raise the nation's borrowing power the senate approved would impart to succeed james was interior secretary greyhound bus lines operated limited service meeting some resistance from striking workers but less violence than yesterday in lebanon the situation the plo leader yasser arafat surrounded by a stronger rebel forces remains unresolved

and the united nations security council voted late today for us the turkish cypriots to cancel the declaration of independence and roused all nations not to recognize the new turkish cypriot republic imagine and i have a nice week endlessly on monday night on jim lehrer thank you and goodnight the macneil lehrer newshour is funded by the new at and t more than a new look and new outlook and by the corporation for public broadcasting and by this and other public television stations nice boots since you're only noon

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