The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

was this really go to war as a last resort president rushed our nation to war without a plan to win the peace and simple things were done that's why senator lugar says incompetent in the delivery of services that's why senator hegel republican says they'll be on pedophile beyond embarrassing in the zone are dangerous when guarded hundred and fifty thousand tons of animal that elmo is now being used against their kids ten thousand and twelve thousand humvees are armored i visited some of those kids with no limbs did a position of the armor in those vehicles they didn't have the right body armor i've met parents who are on the internet gotten the armor to send their kids there's no bigger judgment for president united states that i take a nation the war and you can say because saddam might have done it ten years from now that's a reason that's an excuse as president complains about the fact our troops don't have adequate equipment yet he voted against the eighty seven billion dollars supplemental i sent to the congress and then issued

when the most amazing clothes and political history i actually did vote for the eighty seven billion dollars but for before i voted against it saddam was a was a restorer countrymen he was arrested that up and it's where we just have a difference of opinion which of the matter is if you listen carefully saddam was still been powerfully with a brazilian states in the war would be a lot better off and center character is not necessarily be empowered the years will say about it is that they are made a mistake the way i talked about he made a mistake and invading iraq which is a worse decision night voted the way i voted because i saw that he had the policy run i wanted accountability i wanted it a slush fund the halliburton i also thought the wealthiest people in america pay for it lays and you want your kids to pay for it i wanted us to pay for it since world war i don't think that's a bad decision that's gonna conclude the question that we're goin outta closing statements two minutes

from each candidate and the first closing statement goes to senator kerry believe that was given to us thank you charlie thank you thank you all thank you all of you for taking part by sheer questions tonight very very much art obviously the president both over a strong convictions i respect him but we have a very different view about how to make america stronger and safer i will never cede the authority of our country or our security to any other nation i'll never give a veto over american security to any other entity not a nation not a country not an institution but i know as i think you do that our country is strongest when we lead the world when we lead strong alliances that's the way eisenhower reagan and kennedy and others did it we're not doing that we need to

i have a plan that well help us go out and kill and find the terrorists and i will not stop in our effort to hunt down until the tears but also have a better plan how we're going to deal with a rat training iraqi forces more rapidly getting our allies back to the table with a fresh start with new credibility with a president whose judgment the rest of the world trusts edition of that i believe we have a crisis euro crisis of the middle class that is increasingly squeezed health care cost going up i have a plan to provide health care to all americans either plan to provide for our school so we keep the standards but we help our teachers teach an elevator schools by funding no child left behind i have a plan to protect the environment so that we leave this place in better shape your children that we were handed out by our parents that's the test i believe america's best days are ahead of us an optimist but we have to make the right choices to be fiscally

responsible and to create the new jobs of the future we can do this and i ask you for the privilege of leading our nation to be stronger at home and respected again in the world thank you senator and a closing statement president bush to like i thank you over much majority rate cut as for the presence is about the future who can lead them to get things done that a lot together as a country into recession corporate scandals or you think about where we are at one point nine million new jobs in the past thirteen months the farm income in america is high small businesses are flourishing homeownership rate is an all time high in america on the move and i had a chance to discuss with you what to do to keep this economy going keep the taxes low dollar increase the scope of the federal government keep

regulations them legal reform health care policy that does not empower the federal government but empowers individuals an energy plan that will help us become less dependent on foreign sources of energy and abroad and requires a president who is steadfast and strong and determined and out to the american people after that fateful day of september eleventh that we would not rest your tire two were safe nine eleven commission put out a report that said america safer but not yet safe there's more work to be done to stay on the narcotics will deny sanctuary to these terrorists will make sure they do not end up with weapons of mass destruction it's a great nexus great threat to our country is that these haters end up weapons of mass destruction but our long term security depends on our

deep faith in liberty will continue to promote freedom around the word freedom is on the march tomorrow afghanistan will be voting for a president iraqi we have free elections and a free society will make this world more peaceful double ice frozen centered care that includes tonight's debate i want to give you a reminder that the third and final debate on issues of domestic policy will be held next wednesday october thirteenth at arizona state university in tempe arizona hosted by bob schieffer of cbs news i wanna thank president bush and senator kerry for tonight i want to thank the citizens of the st louis area who asked the questions get so willingly of their time and their responsibility very seriously think you also everyone in washington needs money a lot of that everyone at

washington university in st louis vincent racist taunts and charles gibson of abc news from st louis than i think the ninth or was nineteen eighty seven my count to fifteen questions were asked by the people chosen by the gallup organization they were all considered the folks who had not made a final decision yet as to vote for president bush or senator kerry their courses the there were no there were no other folks allowed in the hall except those and forty people of course there's the senator with his wife theresa and there's the president and the first lady laura bush and the the only other folks that as i say were allowed in there were members the family was no audience per se other than the pictures and cindy on questioning to review

that and well explained before but that the pattern forty people each of them wrote questions and they were given to charles gibson and then he divided them up and decided which which ones would be asked when called on that person to stand up and ask the question to the candidate for whom it was directed and now we made tonight as always are syndicated columnist mark shields and they are times columnist david brooks did a doubt what happened these last ninety minutes that you think was the most important the push regain his composure and much better command of the issues much more self confidence i thought he won this debate not by law but by a significant chunk of the cover for some of the doubts republican party answered in the concrete above the way i carry i thought made mistakes understand the making these circumstances too many points for each answer

today but i have a plan on a few key issues around i don't think kerry hit the carnage in iraq that sense it is going on right now to be at that point what was harder was effectively as it could've which decree well on the what what's the plan for the future another issue the environment an issue for kerry should have just swamp push on that so i think overall the effect the midst of a little bit of the bush campaign and the bush campaign of those i don't think so again i think there are two questions on its night's debate one was declared george bush demonstrate the capacity to change the second was to john kerry demonstrate the capacity to connect and as it was almost a reception growing perception the political world but republicans as well as democrats that the president is like the stereotypical male driver taken a long term seven miles back now refuses to stop and ask for directions and it did think the interactive e m e change that we would agree with babies far more engaged than it was last time though another the

facial texan from bases that so our influence that the negative reaction to his first debate but the question was who is playing defense and i thought the president played events on an awful lot of issues tonight i'm including the canadian implication of drugs and so much of the economy and and it's one that i agree with david that john kerry and against it capable of the park an environment i he did not the year but i i thought that i thought that carry i did show more than a show before in fact and he talked about his his own that religious faith which he has not done in this entire campaign on national television are i cannot draw effect but it was a start to try to connect on a personal level is still not a commanding engaging warm personality but i entered you could see attempts at that night maybe because we saw them as attempts maybe they weren't that affect whether a high point for president bush

to the persona that's personal persona there were moments of the debate that one sticks out in my mind though charlie gibson asked what's the deficits and neither of them came with the country while hitting a question doctor did say something significant which was i will not raise taxes the middle class and the question of these enough there's an answer in the next couple days i have the healthcare plan without raising taxes because the amount you raise another one percent just isn't enough healthcare plan and zoe there's gonna be some tough choices that face now is not raise taxes below three thousand surcharge see it of what you think carries a big point we're quite like you're either carried a couple things that to be quite well tonight and at that the point and he does absolutely i thought demolished the president's claims about the coalition and iraqi will put together cd countries have left if missouri were an independent nation is to present its troops would be the third largest coalition partner

it that they just kind of drove home in graphic terms just at the sort of paper coalition that with a forged get in there i thought as well that kerry did that they'd made some strong points on the question of homeland security on the ninety five percent of containers coming in the country be an unknown and inspected i thought that carries feeling was that good and david david think there's a point here he has a plan is that plans that a symbol but i don't guess we're going to do is to change it is a plan to do it which i think sounds like an abstraction what would you call a as well would you just as president bush as major failing tonight if you saw one well i do think the drug re importation issue i do think there were certain things he failed to carry on it a little at the record the soundtrack of that i would say too much there are some issues he's a small wearable on spending the question why spending at rowan that's less of these are the facts and he i think he has trouble with those so i would not say

she was bogged down in a rare frankly for either the sony one we'll never thrown back unexpected serve to know what to say that they're both great the president jim one subchapter s i mean the hell knows when a subchapter s has an in that military about that like i don't get any other thing that they carried that formulation a winning the war is the military's job with a piece of the president's job but that they'll go way down one night when my get before we talk again wanted a longer view on tonight's debate and for that we go to race war right to help us put tonight's debate into some perspective we're joined by presidential historian michael beschloss richard norton smith director of the lincoln library and museum and ellen fitzpatrick professor of history at the university of new hampshire and i thought this format created the possibility for a really direct encounter between these two candidates in a way that a more structured more moderated debates that we've had over the last forty years

sometimes you know take away that direct confrontation became this closer points to using the l word and calling each other liars we look back over a couple decades of debates have their been times where you could really see the uk the aggressive encounter the elements perhaps between two candidates we saw that selling it to the first time this format was tried out i thought was the third time around well done it six records were both clinton and dolph i thought it was by far the best father a lot of people have doubts about this for about the town hall format bob they think it's only theatrical i in some ways not that modern politics has become theater that you know that there are two questions in particular that we would not have heard perhaps from a panel of reporters one was on abortion very pointedly phrased the question about abortion directed to senator kerry and one equally pointed directed to president bush about the patriot act by someone who felt that his liberties were being

infringed i actually thought that there was a great deal more spontaneity are because of the audience participation as your question suggests but i also was very struck at a difference in this town hall debate over previous town hall debates and that was that the questions from the audience were pitch quite broadly in the past you had people standing up and saying i'm not so and so and i have an issue with x and y and writing directly about their lives in the house that was really kind of at the un saying it had a collection of special interests essentially coming from the citizenry which is appropriate people have their concerns and they look to politicians and particularly the president steps to address those concerns but this time i thought that question the quality of the questions were picking they were good quality questions but they were pitch broadly to national issues and concerns and that was i thought quite effective michael i didn't think

the format particularly worked you know especially compared to earlier town meetings i think there was a reason for this because oftentimes it does get into show business in a way that perhaps obscure is the difference between the two candidates but i thought that the questioners looked a little bit like props and also you know there was just none of the engagement that you saw in previous debates part of that was the rules there was much humor abuse were not human beings were really interacting with each other and the result was that it was a rather i see even a humorless evening for most of that the recall to some extent of the relationship between george of the abortion al gore four years ago was a high when you say ice evening is that a reflection of the real differences in the high contrast between what the two men think about a lot of the issues it did i think that i think that reflected that but you know you can have big differences and also have a little bit of humor more pleasant atmosphere ronald reagan and walter mondale you can think of two

candidates with probably more differences ideologically the nose to look back at those two debates in nineteen eighty four there was humor when reagan told a joke mind there was laughter there was a sense that you know at the end of this evening these were not two men who were intensely antagonistic to each other mondale began his first debate by saying i like president reagan i respect the president say i think he knows that there wasn't that element tonight i think i missed it i mean i think that what i i was here to say is that i think there's a kind of solemnity that we're seeing again all these debates all three of them now that reef flat the i in a way i feel it's appropriate to the seriousness of the issues at hand every election year there are serious issues but i do think that the post nine eleven environment that we're all living in the concerns that so many americans have about

security the war on terror the ongoing war in iraqi it's lending a kind of solemnity to proceedings that is very obvious to me anyway they were able to add points respond to each other in a in an un moderated more rapid fire way and it verge urged on the personal didn't and india and they did look feel different look different to you from from previous encounters that it was different from our last friday night and the president showed up and out was i was intensely engaged about like biggie more than telephone was interesting you know john edwards maybe the trial lawyer but john kerry's the prosecuting attorney and i thought he returned to that role over and over again tonight outlined for aggressive about it for a crisp often command of his facts but i also think it's interesting he said probably he says labels don't mean anything that reminds me of michael dukakis i was a lecture about competence not values and george bush seemed to be saying labels mean

everything and i think they are in a nutshell perhaps it's one of the choices the stark choices that would be offered in nineteen ninety two no one thing that came to mind as i listen to this was the encounter between five george bush sr and bill clinton and which by george bush sr said our old one we can have somebody turning the white house into the waffle house and i raise the character issue in particular i'd clinton demonstrating against the vietnam war in a foreign country wall the war was ongoing bringing up very directly the issue of cow eric her and that was i think a really kind of a frontal assault that came in the midst of that debate and clinton's responses i recall was something about on the issue is really the character of the presidency and there is i think a kind of parallelism in that that we saw tonight as well so apart from the issues michael

do these debates give that these men a chance to talk about each other and personal terms that when they talk about the issues that may not necessarily have the opportunity to do they do but i sure wish that we had about ten or eleven of these debates rather than three because one there are three it's just not enough time because they can be affected by someone making a slick wooden see that tonight but oftentimes are can be a moment that has enormous impact i would love to see a system where you have ten or eleven of these not only because you get to discuss issues and greater length and depth but because you get more of a sense of who these people are i think one thing we saw this this evening was that both of these candidates knew that there were such an enormous amount at stake that they were a little bit sort of restraint in common strain that's why we didn't have that kind of engagement michael gass thanks a lot jim yeah thank you ray and once again to mark shields and david brooks before we go speaking of things being at stake what because of the night is now at stake next wednesday when

they have the third debate in tempe arizona on domestic policy mark why i think that the question jim who is on the defensive i mean there is this kind of the election that is a referendum on the incumbent and inappropriate i think we saw senator kerry quite offensive a couple of times today on the libel charges against him to the label's great lengths to say i have cast all those conservative votes of these conservative fight to a balanced budget and that as well and maybe the charge about that he would never take the country to war without with checking first of the nation to give nobody veto power over that ended up with them the president over on the defensive over his policy decisions past four years i david i disagree among the president clinton admitted he had been in the state so what what what now what now is on the table in a major way for next wednesday oh i think i think that it

remains an an election about war and peace and prosperity and i think this is it there's no issue visit a rack remains the central and dominant i don't raise a question about it and i think the economy in americans' attitude of the pessimism of skepticism about it and it will when most nevertheless that i think liberalism is right there in the center because john kerry's inoculation as being a massachusetts liberal was that he went to vietnam and that are off the table we're just about domestic wells so one of things i thought you saw bush pivots and i was a little less talk less so far more talk about liberal and then an even inform policy naive and dangerous so i think now next time we go straight to domestic policy is get hit that texas spent a lot i think that'll be the the crunch point that the bassoon happens then and in the meantime we will be talking about on other occasions and thank you all for tonight and i'll see you in sudan and those ended for now and we'll see you on line and our regular news aired on monday evening with more analysis and reaction to tonight's debate among other things

for now from washington on jim lehrer thank you and goodnight fb major funding for the newshour with jim lehrer has provided to our policy says it's between the stations is sixty five