The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; NAACP Convention

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Thank you. Sing a song full of the faith that the dark past has taught us.

It was born in 1909, an outgrowth of a biracial meeting in Niagara Falls, called to set up, quote, an aggressive watchdog of Negro liberties, end quote. W. E. B. Du Bois was in on the founding. and so were other well-known black leaders such as ida wells barnett and mary church tarrell it was a time of lynchings and organized terror against blacks in the south and elsewhere in the country and the naacp went to court and elsewhere in its campaign against these overt acts as well as the less violent discriminations of jim crow laws among other things through the 50s it became the major civil rights organization and in many areas of the country the only one most of its

battles were fought in the courtroom. Its major victory coming in 1954 with the Supreme Court's Brown versus Topeka decision on segregated schools. Then came the fights over integrating Central High in Little Rock, admitting Charlene Hunter to the University of Georgia and James Meredith to the University of Mississippi. Governor George Wallace of Alabama stood in the schoolhouse door and Dr. Martin Luther King led marches. There were bombings in Birmingham, freedom rides, demonstrations, and the passage of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. The NAACP was either there or supporting most of these actions, although it now shared the civil rights spotlight for the more activist groups of Dr. King, CORE, and others. When the dust had settled, virtually all of the legal barriers for blacks in the U.S. had been dropped. Wilkins and his NAACP colleagues were known as militants during those changing times, but as the civil rights struggle moved on to more subtle areas, his and the organization's image changed.

Roy Wilkins, NAACP, became known as a conservative group in the civil rights movement. And now, across the NAACP convention program here in St. Louis, is the phrase, Our New Day Begun. May we forever stand True to our God True to our native land Oh man That music may be unfamiliar to whites, but most blacks know and recognize it as the black national anthem. The man the NAACP has chosen to lead it to its new day is Benjamin Hooks. Reverend Hooks is a minister and an attorney and was a banker as well.

Before being appointed a commissioner of the Federal Communications Commission, he is resigning from the FCC to take the NAACP post. Commissioner Hooks, what do you see as the new day for the NAACP? Well, to the extent I think the new day represents two things. First of all, it is the actual passion of leadership internally from Roy Wilkins to myself. Number two, we feel that in the 21st year of the independence of America that we waited long enough for full citizenship rights, and we intend to pursue vigorously whatever action may be necessary to achieve those rights. Does the image of the organization now bother you as you take over its leadership? Yes, the image bothers me because it's so false. You know, I noticed in this opening thing that we turned conservative. That's the image. Now, except that conservatives might mean that we never did advocate violent overthrow of the government. We were as militant as any other group. And I noticed the folk who were talking about violent overthrow never did arm themselves with machine guns, not die in what they believed. I don't have an objection to what folk believe if they really practice that. The NAACP has never been conservative in the sense that we've equivocated at all

on the fundamental principle of integration of every walk of American life. Do you have any specific new directions or programs that you want to institute? Well, we are trying to strengthen internal to the NAACP, but it's rather amusing to me. The American Civil Liberties Union uses a code of action. They're very successful. The labor unions use voting and lobbying. The draft made a common cause. Consumer movements, National Chamber of Commerce, NAM, National Association of Manufacturers, used the lobbying method uh when they wanted to stop the concord in new york they blockaded the streets and the highways the gay rights movement the women's movement all of them use the historic tactics of the naacp and yet everybody tells me i want to get something new well i've got to see what that new is we can we we expect to continue the types of things that have been very successful for us and that are very successful in changing the whole lifestyle and structure of america by various kinds of groups. We're not immune to change. If somebody comes along with a better way of doing it, we shall continue to do it. In addition to those four things I enumerated,

we also plan to use conciliation and education as perhaps best exemplified by the American Jewish Congress and the National Conference of Christians and Jews. We intend to give more vigor, more them to it. We have planned to have a larger membership, more money, expand our staff and go into state legislatures and city councils with lobbying efforts, but basically litigation, voting rights, education, lobbying efforts, and direct action wherever and whenever that's feasible and necessary, we'll continue to use those tools. But up till now, then, you have not heard of a better way of doing it. Is that right? No, I've not heard of a better way. I've not seen a better way. And I've never seen any of our critics come up with a better way. And I'm not fussing about that. When they bring it up, we'll appropriate their tactics like other people have used ours. Has the NACP lost a lot of clout in recent years? Well, in 1963, we reached a peak in membership of about 530,000. By 1971, it had gone back to about 360. Today, it's around 430 or 40.

So we're moving back up. It hasn't been a continuous downward spiral. In 1963, the year that Dr. King made that famous speech at the Washington Monument, obviously, of all the people who had been gathered at the Washington Monument had been members, we had 250,000 or 300,000 members so that we are not experiencing a demutation in our power. What we are experiencing is the preoccupation of the news media for running after superficial realities in the news. They're more concerned about a wreck on the freeway or a fire in some abandoned house or some topical subject that has sight, sound, and action rather than the realities of things that would make American life better. So we suffer from the lack of news media attention, and this has given a lot of people who criticize their superficial reasons for criticizing because they have not taken the time to read our history and not know what we're involved in. And therefore, since the news media doesn't concentrate any time on us, they become victims of thinking that our image is what the reality is, and they're two different things. All right. Thank you. Let's get the perspective now of two young people with different

views of the NAACP. First, Angela Lee. She's 27 years old, works as a graphic artist in New York City. Growing up in Cleveland, Ohio, Ms. Lee, you were a member of the NAACP, but you're not anymore. Why not? Well, I became a member. It was more or less traditional. When the late 60s came out and people of my peer group, we became more concerned with the change now as opposed to we shall overcome someday later I got involved with working with just different groups and the NAACP more or less submerged itself I didn't take you know the same type of interest in it well Commissioner hooks and I were just talking about image of the NAACP he was talking specifically about the external

images given by the press. What is your, how do you see the NAACP? What image comes to your mind when the phrase NAACP is said? Well, I think basically of tradition as well as the forefront in fighting earlier for equal rights, civil rights. But is the word earlier, is that the a keyword from your standpoint? What do you see it doing now? Nothing. I really, that could be because of the media, newspapers, whatever. As far as it getting into the community, I really haven't heard what's going on now. Do you see from your perspective, in terms of how you see your needs as a black person in the United States, do you see the NAACP and its activities relevant to you? Well, I'm not quite sure what those activities are right now. I see. All right,

now to Gail Anderson. She's 20 years old, a student at Clark College in Atlanta, and she sees the NAACP quite differently. She's an active member of the organization and now serves on its National Board of Directors. How do you respond to what Ms. Lee has just said, and Ms. Anderson, her vision or how she sees the NACP. I think a lot of young people have misconstrued ideas as Ms. Lee, and I think it's a lack of knowledge of the association's activities, lack of involvement in the association's activities, because if they took the time to check with their local branches or local chapters, they would know what the NACP was doing. The NACP is picked up by newspapers, their activities are. in some places, but there is a way to find out what the association is doing if you are interested in the association's affairs at all. What do you think, how well do you think the NAACP itself has done

in getting young people interested in the NAACP? I think the NAACP has done a good job with the workers that we do have. You have, like I said, some young people are discontented with the organization for reasons unknown, they're distracted by television and things like that. You know, news, as Mr. Hook said, they run around picking up stories like cops beating up people and things like that. I think it's just the whole concept of the American society now that the ideas of UFO are distorted. In other words, are you saying, and also to take what Reverend Hook said also, that the problems of the NAACP are solely the fault of the press? The NACP itself has no responsibility? Yes, we have some responsibility, but the press is very lax with the NACP. Well, what can you tell Ms. Lee here as to why she should become a rejoin the NACP and become active in it? All she has to do is read the history, and then she'll know why.

Based on the history? That's right. What about the now? We're involved now, and we still have the same problem that we had yesterday. The problem may be a changed basis. It's more of an economic problem. We're still dealing with legal battles and things of that nature. But young people should be more concerned now. We have the educational system is more open to young black people now, and they should be concerned of how they got to where they are now. How do we get there? We just didn't go. We just didn't climb a ladder, you know. All right, thank you. A final view now before we go back to Commissioner Hooks from Francis Ward, a reporter in the Midwest Bureau of the Los Angeles Times in Chicago. He's been covering the black political scene for several years. Mr. Ward, based on your soundings as a reporter, does the attitude toward the NAACP differ with varying age groups right now? Attitude of the NAACP differ with varying age groups? Right. Does the attitude toward the NAACP dictated by age?

I think, predominantly, the membership is older. I don't think they have as much of an impact or appeal to younger people, although they do have some younger people in it who are active in it, just as Gail Anderson has just indicated. I think the greater appeal lies with the older people, the people who are perhaps over 35. I'd like to say one thing, though, Jim, if I may, in response to what Gail and Commissioner Hooks have said concerning the press. it's a general feature of press coverage these days that the whole civil rights movement, the whole struggle for liberation and dignity is being de-emphasized by all of the mass media. Not only the NAACP, but the National Urban League, the ACLU, all groups working in this area don't get page one the way they used to. I simply think the reason for that is because now white America predominantly thinks that the struggle is over. Nobody's threatening to assassinate the cops. Nobody's threatening to burn the town down. and we don't have the dramatic freedom marches the way we used to and I just think that white America now thinks that the struggle is over that the immediate threat has been removed

and that now that there's so much emphasis on the first black here and the first negro to do this and the first negro to do that that the predominant image that the media would prefer to project is that things are okay now or that things are much better for all minority groups, blacks included and that that's the story that they would prefer to focus on rather than on civil rights so that even groups with the image of conservatism such as the NAACP don't get the kind of coverage that they once did. Well, what could be done about that? What could the NAACP and other organizations do about that? Well, I think that they need to complain a whole lot more to media executives. I think they need to do more, become more active. I'm not suggesting that they aren't active already, but become more active. And I think that to raise the issue publicly, the way one familiar civil rights spokesman often does in Chicago, to raise the issue publicly and nationally, to have more meetings with media executives, and to simply complain as often as they can about the lack of media attention. Moving from the media attention back to the organization, the NACP itself, is it still as effective as it once was?

No, I don't think so. And in listening to Commissioner Hooks, I really wanted to take issue with one thing he says. I think the commissioner knows full well that the criticism of the association is not from those people who advocate the violent overthrow of the government. That's not really where the criticism is from. Most of the criticism of the association, I think, comes from people who were either active in it now or who used to be active in it. And I'm not just talking about anybody who could be characterized as a revolutionary. I think it is predominantly true that the association has been for a long time firmly within the grasp of those people who believed in a moderate degree of change or a moderate degree of progress, as opposed to other people who wanted to use different tactics, you know, for different reasons. And I don't think those different tactics were revolutionary or violent or anything of the kind. I think that the association's primary activity the last 15 or 20 years has been a slow plotting to achieve a degree of racial integration in education. And I think that even had all of those goals been achieved, you know, through the filing of lawsuits in various cities,

the vast majority of blacks who attend the public schools in the big cities of this country never would have been affected. I think the priority should have been examined a long time ago. I also believe that even in the days of the Warren Court, the whole question of using the courts as the principal, not the only, but the principal vehicle to achieve change should have been questioned. It seems to me that Chief Justice Berger has already made it plain that under the Berger Court, the extent to which the courts can be used as an effective instrument for change, you know, might very well be limited. I think the speech that was given by Herb Hill at this convention, you know, is an indication of that. Well, let's go back to Commissioner Hooks now. You've heard what Mr. Ward just said about that maybe the technique of going to the courts has outlived its usefulness. You don't agree? Oh, no. Obviously not. I didn't say it outlived its usefulness. I think that it's limited in its usefulness. I think that the—excuse me, if I could just add one word. Using the courts as the principal tactic, I think, can be used and is being used by various groups.

But I think where the difference between them and the NAACP is that the others use direct action to a greater degree to supplement victories in the courts than the NAACP does. Well, just three questions. I mean, I'm very interested in his viewpoint. He says different tactics without spelling them out. You say other groups use more direct action. Direct action is one tactic that I mentioned. Well, and the sense that the NAACP has been one of the foremost proponents. We got a million-dollar judgment against us in Port Gibson, Mississippi because of direct action. Just last year, we got a $265,000 judgment against us in Mississippi because of direct action. We've had lawsuits. What kind of direct action? Well, in Port Gibson, Mississippi, it amounted to a boycott. Economic boycott. Economic boycott, which is a form of direct action. Picketing in front of the stores to attempt to effect change. That is one form of direct action. And the other lawsuit involved brutality by the Mississippi Highway Patrol. and when our executive director of the Mississippi State led a march and made statements there was a suit filed against us got a $265,000 judgment against

I don't know of anybody else today that if you say the other groups using direct action I can't think of any group today that's using direct action oh I can't think of anybody who's using it that much but I think all that over the years and I'm not just talking about now I think the Port Gibson incident and the case and the others are more the exception than the rule with NAACP I I don't think anybody's using direct action probably as much as they should use, but my point is that using the courts as the principal instrument for change is not as effective as it ought to be without direct action to supplement it. It's not an either-or question. It's not a question that you ought to be over here as opposed to there. You ought to be doing both kinds of things, you see. And I think that the NAACP has relied too heavily upon the court's approach as opposed to any other kind of approach. Commissioner, let me ask you, are you concerned about the attitudes of young people toward the NAACP, such as Ms. Lee just went through? Yes, very much. I am. I'm distressed by it because I think that she has emphasized very clearly what I said. That she doesn't understand it because she can't get the information.

And you don't get the information because it isn't reported. In the city of Cleveland, we've just got involved in a massive school desegregation case. Cleveland has a very large and active branch. In New York City, we're involved. You know, there's 1,700 NAACP branches. The strange thing about direct action was that, statistically provably so, NAACP was involved in more direct action than any other civil rights organization in this country during the 60s. There's nobody that even touched this. Nobody ever bothers to remember that in Alabama, when Dr. King and Rosa Parks started, that there were NAACP people who led that, but they had been outlawed. If the NAACP had been forced out of the state of Alabama, they could not operate so that it was all NAACP workers in Montgomery, historically so, who had to operate under a new title. I remember very well when Dr. King started Southern Christian Leadership Conference, and it came as an outgory of the fact that in Alabama we had to have, you couldn't be NAACP, because for 15 years, NAACP could not operate in Alabama. But in many, many cities in the South, more cities where there was nothing in that city but an NAACP chapter.

Memphis, Tennessee is a good example. Everything that was done there was done by NAACP. There was no CORE, there was no SNCC, there was no SCLC chapter in Memphis during the whole civil rights struggle. And there were many, many other cities where that happened. And young people went to jail by the hundreds, by the thousands really in Memphis, under the leadership of the Memphis NAACP. And this is true all over the country, unfortunately. And the NAACP received this negative image, and I understand how it happened because nobody could deal with the beautiful, brilliant, towering, charismatic personality of Dr. Martin Luther King, Sr., who was a member of SCLC. I myself was a member of the board of SCLC, and I was involved in nearly every civil rights struggle in the South. And I know the ones that were led by NAACP, the ones led by SCLC, and the ones where they led jointly. I know about CORE and Freedom Riders, but the point I'm simply trying to make is that whether or not we were as active as they were, the fact is that we remain now viable. There must be a reason for it.

We have 50,000 youth members today. We have nearly 450,000 total members. There's no other organization that even approaches that. We've raised more money from the black population in the last 10 years than all other civil rights organizations combined in their history. So that it is a problem, I think, that distresses me, because I think that most people are reacting. Of course, Francis is a newsman, and he is very intimately involved, and I understand the reputation of the NAACP. That was within the NAACP, and I think that's what he refers to, a movement called the Young Turk Movement for many, many years, and they fought the leadership within the organization, who felt that it was not moving at an aggressive rate enough. Ms. Lee, let me ask you. You've heard what Commissioner Hooks and Ms. Anderson have said. What's your reaction to this? Well, a lot of the history in terms of what the NAACP has done in the past, I know about. in terms of what they're doing right now I'm still what do you want Benjamin

what could Benjamin Hooks do to bring you back into the NAACP fold is there anything he could do well I suppose basically what I need to see is action You know, what exactly is going on in the NAACP? Is it really moving, doing something? Does it have direction for today's living, you know, as opposed to bringing about change? That's always a part, but where is that change going? Ms. Anderson, you look like you wanted to say something in response to that. normally well representative clay said it the other night a man who has no knowledge of the future past is condemned to repeat the future and there are certain sources of information about the nacp and its history and there are historians living alive now

because she said she already knows the history you know that's not the problem right as i understand it it's it's the present that concerns you or yeah look we just have a minute left let me ask you commissioner the 69th convention of the NAACP is going to be held in Portland Oregon next year what in your fondest dreams would you like to be able to stand up in front of that convention and say you've accomplished in your first year in office well what I'd like to say I won't accomplish because the resistance of white America racism is still alive and well in this country it's manifested in so many ways uh and it's it's shameful and tragic that we have to report that after 200 years of independence that black folks still have to fight for every day every step of the way what white folk take for granted uh it's it's it's almost enough to make one lose faith in the system only the fact that i have come from the backside of beale street to the fcc commissionership a judgeship and all these types of things gives me hope that we can make

some change. But I will, my fondest hope would be to say that we have appealed to white America's conscience, its head, its pocketbook, whatever we have to appeal to, to make them understand that they ought to stop exacting from its citizens who have been loyal and worn in peace a price that's almost too terrible for any man or woman to have to pass. Thank you very much and thanks to the three of you. Other news permitting, we'll be back tomorrow night with a look at President Carter's decision on the B-1 bomber. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night from St. Louis. for a transcript send one dollar to the mcneill lair report box 345 new york new york 10019 the mcneil lair report was produced by wnet and weta they are solely responsible for its content

the program was made possible in part by grants from public television stations the corporation for public broadcasting exxon corporation and the ford foundation Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Thank you.