The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

i'm in iraq this is a special edition of the macneil lehrer newshour an interview with fidel castro how will the macneil lehrer newshour is funded by at and t the corporation for public broadcasting and the station and other public television stations good evening i'm robert macneil left every fidel castro gave the macneil lehrer newshour his first interview with american television in six years tonight in this special edition of the news hour we take another look at that interview was conducted in a time when castro in the reagan administration seem to be making gestures of accommodation after had agreed to take back some of

the undesirable immigrants who fled cuba during the mariel boatlift and the two countries agreed to allow some travel between the restaurant castro was definitely on a public relations campaigns wooing american religious leaders as well as visiting congressman our interview lasted close to five hours and covered a wide range of topics some of them castro had never discussed in public once the charge that his regime had committed numerous human rights violations in cuba i asked him about that money i think so for instance human rights organization by ian amnesty international estimates that you have

up to one thousand political prisoners still in your jails do you have political prisoners still in jail if we haven't you know we have a few minutes in in democracies that is considered a violation of human rights to jail and prison somebody for his political beliefs there are many members of the week they're not present brother in law is not present at the un but these first time that we have the right to file the arctic if you want to try

them so that became cia agents was a disgraced boss those that brought about that that presents the workers teachers to have the right to put them into court the agreement with a foreign power like the united states backed by the interstates you know it inspired poems by will lead our country and frankly because this is a revolution when only one other political prisoners those that have infiltrated the workers that have been trained by the cia to kill we have the right or something

is there anybody is there anybody in jail simply because his political beliefs are a huge disaster and you not normally after jesse jackson came here last summer you release twenty six political prisoners you are describing the moment of course we cannot be willing to release its a honor to live actually on the dais situation is these are up we're not going to really organize for them prepare that i was asked

at the oregon geyser and true that the psychology in security by the cia and the us authorities the other human rights question that is raised by the united states is that you don't have a free press if you're a revolution is now twenty six years old your recent speeches on how successful it is us special visa you write we cannot persist in my government thinks the united states and those private property over the mass media of the mass media

belong to private enterprises the original private property rights it is and a servant of the regime we do not people information service well it is astonishing

that there is your sister just the western world it does presuppose that the leadership of the country and you are always right that you're infallible i didn't realize that a lot of attention you see is actually anyway because

we are the reason that we haven't looked at that we agree or disagree with me majority this is from the government and i asked him the same thing well because because of that

i have very very few iranians this point ministers your vice ministers your director of the ministry's i don't think anybody does do is we have a system for the selection of a guy that's our audience but doesn't this is to me that the revolution is or was right to you when you played you and did not even read that you and you for a hundred and fifty years oregon laughter there hasn't been a

senator without any discussion at people without it because remember things i think that when i think of hours of that it effected better just how we make the things that will get coverage we can recognize it the president admitted a very few like myself

the family you don't know ok if this analysis would not be about how do you measure that how do you as a leader of this country know that up fares so sure when you don't carry vehicles for public expression of an open discussion of issues that the democracies how do you know that people feel that we have a hard time in every factory think about the things about it is and isn't a dynamic isn't a dynamic of one party state that the

ear instruction in information goes down words and if people disagree with it they don't dare say so and that also the descent which may just doesn't come back up the system we know what we know the way out people think much better than what the president i think about the way you as you have no doubt whatsoever what we have in many ways that's a bow that's because of the people the use of the weapons through the boxes of weapons to the people should be a girl your friends and your fate at the weapons

for mass of the people he has you know so many home you're the first and how we we haven't really benefited i would not at all things that we would not be able to stave off in twenty four minutes you want more probable that the ioc reported and increasingly cuban church refused to go for service the families of troops who have there've been there are getting more and more unhappy over the ongoing experiences that true that you're feeling public pressure to end the revolutionaries fulfill international solution something that should not

make anyone feel strange about when people have motivation isn't it of christ sacrificing because they separated from their relatives in some cases these risks it means that our people can carry on their common event a little let me go the enemy should not only we're getting in some day or that it might be funny the family no one year isn't it isn't good another

arms as an intimate reader public interest and and the concern of the cuban public as a whole the cost the cost in lives of your men and that is of the revolutionary policy by the steamy example of a mistake you feel you made and in the end admitted you know in front of the white's in the decisions were made we've made because in general yes you said

the national assembly we do not become capitalist do begin to being a little capitalist norm which country you're a member and increasingly you're mentally physically and philosophically of capitalism every day about the advantages of these social system they just say that but the president of the country creeping private enterprise to permit free markets were vegetables and food and things certainly assault by the people who were to open new supermarkets where

goods consumer goods which are otherwise are priced at full market prices and not to support prices is is not creeping private enterprise but when you ask about things i said he did not run until because you asked that that means i can do is not that within the development of the economy were at the beginning we did not have an expansion and where we've had an attitude of certain disregard for the experiences of assertions country all true of the rule of the actions of the times they believe that they'd owe more than the rest we make decisions the exchanges

nice job that's right cause it was not get into a fight with a necessary part of the weekend but it's not the we he won the cup it was a sunday morning i analyze it as well on the employment report is really unique and you can plan and they combined how many unemployed it haven't seen it yet about the deeper i think and then these couples by feel can we move to defense in the last years

greatly increased as you said or military capacity you were you said i'm generous second june increased your weapons roughly a quarter million as long as you have a hundred and ninety thousand our question is the only question is why does cuba need this is very large level before so really on thousands of the fire and defend the reserves government militia over one million we have tripled the number of weapons that multiplied many times our resources by changing the

constitution because the perception was the reserve even in every corner in every city the countryside among other action against the idea is that every citizen in this country is on a lesson from grenada well no we're going to fight the roommate of thing that that weakens it actually made his few letters live on the termination will be a readiness to become stronger and five you ask why someone puts the residents i just i see it being such a possibility the country that addresses as a country to look at us and the countries that threatens us by invading to eventually they don't understand why we may be the country

that is investing as these three hundred and thirteen billion dollars that one third of the budget he taken that away from still people from we know that we are feeling threatened the vital facts of the words that we make an effort to defend ourselves we actually don't we have to find that you had a year you had an invasion scare last fall last bauble you had exercises you had the pros including children digging trenches the relaxed now are you now i'm not fearing an american invasion from the initial pitch look we were relaxed i'm relaxed to then

move forward we have been for twenty six years relaxed that one out the measures we have taken to defend us we're not going to wait for a governor of the east side to attack the country is for us to then start preparing ourselves we're very close we are preparing ourselves and we will continue for someone of your motives for seeking you're suggesting to improve relations with the united states is not so that you can relax your military investment when your karaoke know not building so i think the stadium that we would continue the things that we were going to learn the people the only advantage

for him and the country is simply they want respect for the success others in any case we got to do the reagan administration has maintained that there are three obstacles to better relations between united states and cuba they are killers allegiance to the soviet union what the white house calls to the subversion in this hemisphere of the presence of cuban troops in angola as president castro to discuss in detail each of these obstacles starting with his country's relations with the soviet union the relationship between people and the soviet union based in the most strict

respect for independence and sovereignty of our country is we have friendly relations report relations and police relations cannot be affected in order to improve relations with the sense that i believe that the united states would not respect a country that would do such effect the countries that do those things simply are not respected and actually we are not going to change neither are dr our ideas our relations with the soviet union and our friendship will be maintained intangible i say this being forty five years from a sincere and it is necessarily let this be understood the young director of cuban affairs in new state department kenneth's group he said it in a speech in december and what cuba could not

do and still retain most goes further mr walter its fundamental commitment to unswerving support for soviet policy and so my question is is an unswerving support for soviet policy the price of the soviet age it keeps the cuban economy are we do have many things in common with the soviet union in many international problems we publish this that is based on political ideas we don't know which we cannot be ashamed of because actually no we are not going to fight with the feds to become friends of our adversaries that we

shall never never involved any conditions on us on their land they have never attempted to what we should do what we spoke with which to trade relations so i simply can't understand where the spirit of the soviets though an obstacle and if someone thinks that we are going to sell out to that we're going to develop our advantage online that is america was a country that cannot people that i send all of these countries of possibly not respect i think what dave what the united states government is saying is that your economic dependence on the last day makes you automatically a part of the soviet camp in having two

agreed to policies like her the soviet intervention in afghanistan would you fidel castro who values the independence and integrity of a small country would you would you along have approved the soviet intervention in afghanistan if you had been free to make her own shots did you privately and personally approve of the soviet intervention in afghanistan for fifty one years that's it in that conflict in that attack the tremendous affect in the lead to buy the united states we were not going on heat on the side of the intersection and we

were then moves on the sidelines at a lowe's would not be on the topic and we will so that is what we have in the region because of it but it isn't that it isn't that the point in which your friendship and dependence on the soviet union makes you part of the camp and therefore take positions which washington regards as anti american positions you co starred was this dependency or something that is actually in fact and actually today's world in the economic arena you know one is absolutely defend that not even the united states nor japan nor western europe that depend on oil or materials and from many other countries they need markets made in the trade that is no country is totally

independent economically is it not true that your role in return for all the aid you get from the soviet union is to be a farm in america saw it says is that working we would not be talking about improvements visit our role is to be a farm that would not be convenient it does not bring us great benefits either but we are based on my conviction that is the necessity to struggle dairy in central america that is the daddy duty that innovation more attention to achieve the missions and i say this

i was and i shall always be a real change a single microbe that follows relationship with a thousand countries like in a sense the soviet union continued to provide you with the aid and support it does do you believe if you have good relations with the scientists in an instant our relationship with the soviet you know with a socialist countries are solid things to you based on principles and had absolutely nothing to do with our economic and political religion intersects with the soviet union like it if you had better relations with the united states the blockade perhaps were lifted and the economic burden on the soviet union were shared on lessons the united states will be saved

was a fortunate the bottom the only be buying the nickel and that will be maintaining relations and trade that we're visitors this week this is happening needs to drive innovation think to record everything we have done for them we have as big sci fi without trade with the us it's actually asked the sort of you know how we generally don't economic relationship that's nice it would be against the other the

second point that washington says as an obstacle to improved relations with cuba is cuba's quote subversion in this hemisphere unquote castro has openly supported the leftist sandinista regime in nicaragua and according to the administration has covertly supplying arms and ammunition to get rebels fighting in el salvador egyptian was defined by the director of cuban affairs at the state department kenneth's group who said it is careless driving with soviet support to introduce marxist leninist regime throughout the hemisphere which still lies at the heart of our differences i asked fidel castro about that charge latin america recently he met with the natives and said that the land had to be given to

the native land declared that schools were reserved for the workers and for the family medicine doctors for the you do and also full of what we preach this enormous that besides it is what's really of the senate wayne movement in a marxist is going to be a socialist and we would always say that our social system it's more just so we have said because we're convinced about it we answer the following weekend which is my answer to that neither country what does revolution and not the order of social factors the

cultural historical fact is that the top the mission the family tennessee that is right eventually the united states the united states accuses i think maybe of wanting to promote change we would like to see the changes will come whether the united states likes it or

not been supporting militarily media sundin easter regime in in nicaragua are is cuban not helping to sustain and introduced a marxist leninist regime that by offering military cooperation we're just revolutionize to defend it that's his only that fortunately the united states has also sent their weapons safely in this hemisphere to other people have sent weapons to solar cell sending weapons to crudely you want me was an accent weapons to pinochet would send weapons to the repressive governments of latin america governments that murdered tortured dozens of thousands of people

which is that you are it's fine with the questions too to rejuvenate i asked the united states helped the cover of which are that's our weapons to that he exposes it it is something that has been alive he was right and even if some cooperation in the military field so you would not

stop giving such aid as a condition for improved relations reason institute we shall not make any unilateral decision in our relations and cooperation with nicaragua we have said again is that in central america political negotiated solution is possible to say that is that we support the effort of changes of pieces that we get sincerely mean that the solutions which is convenient for the problems for some and for the university and that we're ready to go to find that

businesses are going to want to find a political solution i believe that a lot of the insurgency is convinced that candy store and saw the solution from within by combining the effect of the economic message of years ago with the economic difficulty inside the actions of a couple of major events as long as that convinced that they can destroy the revolution from within no it will not be seriously ready to seek a political solution to the problem just because of the beliefs that

it will destroy that we're going to worship him why reach agreements regarding united states the controls the government that will be defeated it will be defeated so then the situation will come up before the sense that is the us his weapon or the alternative to negotiate seriously consider or invaded prague it sits in my view like the us invasion and he has seen the law says such a serious mistake but don't think that i do not seem to think but the united states would really get to the point of making that cannot assure you that it might not but i say that it is not conceivable that under the present circumstances another murder under the

present circumstances of crisis with the presence of feeling on the part of ordinary people at the time for a living and the aggression and innovation is the left american that would be a less catastrophic in political terms that means at a political cost it will not only politically but also in terms of us lives during the course of our long interview pastor kept saying ask me anything but one of the few questions he refused to answer directly concerned el salvador specifically what age uber was giving the guerrilla groups fighting in el salvador i said you do not want to make any commitments about that say

yes sir you know in practice in reality in the past that's because it is practically in the two militaries the capabilities we definitely even if they will not receive any military even though they would not be in a similar position to resist indefinitely sessions with their weapons the fact that the recession

and that does not even jewish castro is regarded as a sort of elder statesmen true revolutionaries in latin america because of that i asked him what countries in this hemisphere did he consider rights revolution i would say is that from the point of view of sociability on the subject of the nation's the objective is not only central america few will actually a more important south american he says in that area a situation that's been created or from the objective point of view that is that pre revolutionary situation i am absolutely

convinced of this hemisphere on a relatively exposed he is absolutely convinced that the mechanisms that the problem is that that's a social problems they have tripled that is as he could this province the yolk and other from the president and in my opinion it is more uncertain situation the business of america i did

and american societies it's a situation is there among the workers and even talking about in this case have problem is general that's it that the debt when they did that they cannot pay is not that they don't want to pay for women don't think not only of the family that this the interests in the minimum interests they cannot therefore they wanted to they cannot they banned the court will actually bring about a social russian revolutionary

expulsion it that it would be necessarily as at least twenty years of base that would include interest really understand you're saying that to prevent an explosion in latin america that the international banking community needs to give them twenty years of grace on interest is that what you mean right yes you see albright debate not that that because they could respond with that for ten years and it could be in the interests of the debt they can and that

changes in strategy and you can still be made of them that has to change things and us government which is one of the reasons i feel there's a reason not likely this elegant and that is the situation that we see how well lit so they sent a battalion of the eight second airborne to the senate where anybody understands this i believe it will be a description of the century

that's my reason the third of those obstacles that washington sees to improving relations with havana is the presence of cuban troops and angola pastor says there are more than twenty thousand there i asked him what would have to happen for him to start bringing them home what is needed there well this doesn't have taken place with the united states has had a dialogue with coal ash we're going for surveillance about these negotiations that have been hell without support i spend with our food corporations

they have carried out these negotiations in close contact so with kim you withdraw or any of your troops before paris agreement know the gentleman would not agree with that and from our point of the wood the domestic and the incomparable that is if those circumstances then i'm gonna commits itself of course who supported the withdrawal in a period of three years which is made up by approximately twenty thousand this is the saddest of troops in the center

the government's these groups and negotiations these presentations and their position is that we have to withdraw most troops you me it would be something that would have to be discussed between whatever it is that they can use these troops do you think that this projected settlement of a situation does that erases cuban troops in angola as an issue between you and the united states and relations the day whether of america may be the united states might invent let me and let me ask you to turn your mind that

you've so many times in some major speeches recently the higher definition says many successes to medical care in literacy in infant mortality by those definitions or revolution as a success as we visit to support your the us team five human of frustration not i have no frustration because i feel like this deal that directly of them more than what we dream of many other things were going well you know we had some general idea that's that precise and i can tell you that reality has surpassed our team in what we have done nothing about the same at the beginning that we would prefer that we now speak with navy after twenty six years and it has not to

think of things that were invented to do bigger things that happened that finally let me ask a couple of personal questions are do you want to go on being the president of cuba until you've done that it depends on how many years about all that i can be i would say yes i think i can do this if i cannot do my job because of your body i think that i am yours will you don't think i am and so if you do nothing approach like most of all i believe we have been a mask yeah that there were not so why have we want if they were not so what affect that iraq is not a

lot of consciousness and that he there were there the president for me hopeful that the others will be better under so many generations as bad investments that want to replace those that are three four five years he maybe ten i don't know the day when i cannot feel really it's because of my facilities for allegedly how much work it would be the first to say you say it to be sure the first but we're not for sure it's me if i want my mind or maintain itself it's clear that it is precisely because of that very minute that they're emitted in what i'm able to notice that but i have already done my work one of the others and with

it if i tell you that i will resign on the center of the revolution and i think i still struggle that i have no personal affection for honors in power or force or the forger about you have a president that his older that's the official mythical beast since that interview was conducted relations between havana and washington have soured again the reagan administration went ahead with its plans for radio marti radio station named for the hero of cuban independence podcast in from florida in retaliation castro cancelled the agreement that it opened the doors for some travel between the two countries and an exchange of political prisoners for some of the mariel boat people in his twenty six years as president of cuba

fidel castro has emerged as a larger than life revolutionary agent time would not change that it remains also on in washington side and his island nation a larger player on the world scene and the greater american preoccupations and its size alone would justify i'm robert macneil thank you and goodnight the macneil lehrer newshour is funded by at tnt the corporation for public broadcasting and the station and other public television stations nice

butt or the point or