The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

while one day my editor of them oppose discrimination or we suffer discrimination in the disability community are forty three million others i can recall cases where people across the street or in the meat somebody in a wheelchair so we won and discrimination i think that answers so no discrimination where we've made that clear now to say that seems to me that that's what albie to discriminate race color or wherever life stop this about it this is america or were all products we're not there yet but when his good strong leadership role in the next century ansari didn't have a foreign policy question because just this week secretary pritzker said well we do have enormous the first couple years about four bars that was quite an admission it underscored that i had a sailor harbored a day but there is really no for profit business professor at whatever comes up will be with

unfortunate and have more questions on the loose again there's no more corn responsibly for the president and secondly the constitutional rights of the declaration of independence that's all we need to know and even the part of american you look across at this conference influence and we're not well certainly a package and cotton at home where it doesn't create jobs doesn't educate children doesn't solve problems we need to be they disagree on it as honestly and talking about the future the future it will be the greatest time in this country's history if we can beat this division that is the devil and the homeless world right now we don't have or your first few minutes and i think everybody here university in and thank you all of this though they want you doing this what it's all about

not about me it's not about the present when it's about a process and it's about selecting presidents that so we are differences within our differences but another part is evidence will agree be pretty dull points we should have more debates on it got a lot to say this that's the highest honor i've ever had in my life think that somebody's russell kansas some of rubble in innovation for some is going to finish high school somebody is that about thirty nine months in hospitals after world war two somebody is about the everyday to dress somebody understand that the real americans out there with real problems whether soccer moms are the same single parent families were college seniors people of disabilities or maybe but there's a very fundamental differences in this camp a present when the bonuses for months pregnant women poses fastest them into

balance but rather from the pose is voluntary prayer amendment he opposes the mammoth protect the flag and united states of america people give their lives of those servicemen are they sacrifice we give everything for american law to protect the american flag on the constitutional nub of beyond that we need to address the economy it was a lifetime doing out here is a very proud moment for me and i want the voters who has to make a decision and i want them to be proud of their vote in the years prior that they voted the right candidate probably bow to open for me and others make you one promise my word is give democrats republicans or bottles word is that i keep my word i promise you economy is going to get better economic package going to the next century a better than last week one thing i like to say that

we what senator dole said it's remarkable thing in a country like ours to manage grew up in mosul and one was born a widowed mother and hope arkansas won the president could have a chance to serve the first analysis like if you give me the chance to be president this election is about two different visions about how she go into the twenty first century would we be better off or sideways working together to give each other the tools we need to make the most of our god given potential or when they're all saying you're on your own what would be there are willing that raged in the future together so that also crosses were saying you can get across yourself if you're really this room with anything else tonight and it's the people watching us don't leave with anything else i'll believe this this is a really important election the world is changing dramatically and how we worked and how we will be relating to huge changes and the decisions we might

well have enormous practical consequences so we talk about our responsibility like oh i thought about your responsibility and irresponsible your responsibilities to show on the web because you're going to decide whether or not a balanced budget now what protects medicare medicaid education and we'll decide what we gonna keep mining family regularly assault weapons and things but rosenfeld police one of the people from welfare to work when they were getting divorced families more protection for their kids against drugs and tobacco and gangs and guns what we're going to give our children world class education every year old read every twelve year old woman on the internet every eighteen year old kilcullen if we do those things will build up as the twenty first century and the greatest country in history will be even greater like thank you senator thank you must present this concludes this is the last of the three nineteen ninety six presidents

that's because by the pain the last presidential debate of nineteen

ninety six is over and now we'll get some political analysis from shields and she go a partisan reaction from two media strategist republican michael murphy and democrat robert schram and historical perspective from doris kearns goodwin michael beschloss haynes johnson and bill kristol we begin with shields and she go that's syndicated columnist mark shields and wall street journal columnist karachi go mart beginning with you what are your general impressions of this town hall debate well first of all as best we went through three hours of presidential debates between bill clinton and bob dole and never once was the word sacrifice mentioned by either candidate that just tells us how much our politics our political dialogue has changed since presidential debate became a staple of our our national political life i there was no sense of duty on the part of citizens it was all but what's going to be yours and how what how to do it better and cheaper i didn't think the first part of that tonight's debate that senator dole came out he was caught had it on his game plan was to

define who we are to be president a rather than what this race was about and make it a contest between two individuals and he continued continue to return to that character questioned repeatedly and i was surprised the president never win for the day i hear let the charges kind of just why they're it never really responded and then that one that i thought about halfway through the year the president seemed to get off the defensive and became a little bit more aggressive ii and they seemed to hit his stride but yeah and i thought that senator dole quite frankly given the end in essence really it's in the single charge against him at that senegal fumbled the age question and that president could never adequately object it responded to or addressed the character question how woody what are your general impressions what the format of the town hall format with citizens place to clinton strikes more than opposed the doors because clint has that

ability to react to people in the face he seems to draw energy from that he sees the empathy president has more empathy the convention a funeral directors i mean he just you could just feel your pain and an end to any day that very well bob dole has a harder time reacting that's that said i thought dull dull start strong heat he was critically good going after the character question the beginning he seemed to have it the game plan i thought he lost some of his focus on that as the debate when a lot of there was a time when for example tried interviews the indonesian donations to the democratic party and the clinton campaign but he did it and i kind of off handed way that mentioned indonesia either to have the audiences in or indonesia is much less that it's people in the country and giving money to the campaign so that he didn't score if the ad came in thinking i needed emphasize do things taxes and trust he do a lot better by taxes than he did i think scoring across do you think that he should have taken a

stronger why not character issues in the way that he did in a speech yesterday dr bob dole any candidate you have to do it in a way that makes you comfortable with it personally i think people felt a lot more comfortable doing it in a speech where all the arguments are laid out where he knows what he's going to say and where he's not afraid of going over the line and going to a faraway that sets up clay and i think that that's what he was frightened and that's why he didn't really take the gloves off all the way as the summers' advisors at hopi what if the bill bennett had been in bubbles plays tonight i can tell you know about a lot more arguments very tough point about character mark we think about that about the character i had where that should the cuts have been a little more well i do i have to think because the year the president was so restrained so controlled it in his response to the charges that day he was operating on a strategic apprenticed himself that those attacks word that would hurt hurt the attacker in this

case is senate bill i had i don't know how that all play out but i i i think that this inner dollars is not comfortable on a frontal attack on a bombastic attack i think that day he raised the the issue ad very well and effectively in the early part of the debate and he was trying to obviously elicit a response from bill clinton and bill clinton never gave bob dole and i and i thought when he did come back he obviously had his answer which i think was an effective one i didn't come in really in context debate which was no attack ever created a job are educated a child no insult for a clean up the toxic waste dump i can and probably that will be one of the lasting soundbite of tonight's tonight's event mr acosta parameter back to you and now some partisan reaction to margaret warner thanks elizabeth watching the debate with us this evening had been to media consultants who've helped a lot of other candidates prepare for debates republican michael murphy who resigned last month the door campaign and democrat robert shrum

like starting with youtube you think that the better of this tonight what has republican unexpectedness and all but i believe he did i thought was a strong debate performance ever stronger than last time and i thought in a situation it was close for near the town hall and the contest i think some bold show the country's about truth and honor i've thought about the character issue which is tax plan was so relaxed and fluid yes last in the audience i thought was a compelling bubble i think he did pretty well he doused it was a prosecutor he took a tough questions according to have been answering them yet i don't think he was about to do so or did anything that would create a process are going to the weekend athens of these rallies yeah they got a little stronger than it was in the first debate bowles problem in some ways going into this debate is he a choice between defeat with honor defeat with this are being searched just for clinton personally go after him in very tough terms that he just doesn't like to do it isn't very comfortable in that given the opportunity he

refused even to appeal to anti gay prejudice and to plucked that string that the number of republican support around the country they quote largely controlled the message agenda we heard again about medicare medicaid education the environment and he won the arguments on the cuts we were left with no reason not to will reelect bill clinton at the end of this debate the big burden on bob dole was to come in here and make a case against the president i don't think he did do you prevent that bill clinton really controlled the issue for the defense of the most vividly than that i'd get nothing done a weekly defense in the court was trying to kill the clock make the debate go away for his time curfew which is to channel it i looked at that one is there is ready to sleep at some level it is or was to stay away as much as the reform of the debates about this format was trying to do was kill the clock and i think if you look at a live performance on the plus side he did what he does well just feel people's pain on the other side he's got like a used car salesman he always has the right answer and they were suspicious and i look at the faces of the audience when

clinton would go to his march of progress feel everything's wonderful world of life and i don't see how the face is not the truth of gold honor of the men show tonight and i think clarence turner glibness and slippers on someone insincerity show tonight amir doesn't see how effects and i don't think was eli happy faces in the republican party more on the poles come back on who people thought won the debate and i think its great span i mean i would say that clinton was eloquent i would say made the case very powerfully i'd say helpful it at least to a draw on taxes and a very well one the taxes argument and and overwhelmingly again as in the other two debates one the medicare argument you can just go out as told us in kempton say you're scaring people have clinton comeback with specifics and not respond how do you think might be a bit dull handled that issue which is coarse woody was on the defensive and first well i think i think it is pure politics nothing gold color the carpet bombing the campaign medicare environment medicaid education

meaning me anything you like about the republicans and one for really don't like about obama gets in i think the only way to fight that kind of demagoguery is a message of their campaign signs reading the little can clearly we're talking taxes bills winning the top and medicaid medicare plans when they built the privilege of a cushion sen clinton does a very good job of saying you can have a forty percent cut in medicare pay for the old tax cut forty percent cut to education forty percent cut law enforcement and doesn't say that on his own authority but on the authority will serbs people look at this budget and joe doesn't respond a lot about that time when he was asked by someone in the audience tell me how you're going to balance the budget and get this tax cut my life and senator dole has a map of it was pretty impressive the twenty percent fourteen percent said they bought one for spending it's a rate of inflation into a more taxes more spending brooklyn when a smaller rate of increase in spending and give some money back the wolf also says doesn't have better than they ever have before of making that they're visible when an increase as like the truth behind this medicaid medicare and it's a quibble over the slope of an increase for the democrats demagoguery

and older to fight back but stop an inherently defensive every time those entrees protected by something or re debated and i don't know that i can make the argument that all the knowledge more more to give and not a typical woman or any major missed opportunities but no i don't really think so i actually thought i'm a little grumpy about this format to what i thought was kind of interesting that people ask questions that might not otherwise have been asked the most of that and other questions about gay rights were interesting and in fact it was that from bob dole something that's very genuinely part of it he just can't bring himself to endorse discrimination in any form says he's been on the other side of it for a long time he sort of half attacked affirmative action but then gets a number but i really do want to do what i used to be for it in the old form of learned a lot and i don't want to do it anymore but he has a very hard time playing those social issues for younger somewhat internally has been looking at the kidnap a bowling alley i have former comptroller says the real questions that other people would have a job but it was performance art thats plunged it nobody made a big mistake though i don't think like what the pardon

horse out of the barn he did not answer that question is hanging out there tonight as news i think would bill clinton pardons people a shady business dealings he wouldn't answer i think that was a mistake but i'm going to sing others too last last point here do you think anything happened tonight is going to change the dynamic of this race so i think bob of themselves and will this be a white label of flipped the horse around now will this be a catalyst to get people to focus on having a president who told the truth up to be the big issue and i hope will be it might have some definitely deny for boggle it won't be as morning and i forgot a victory but it's as of this summer wheat and instagram was to have i don't think it'll be a three week by election day victory there and clinton came into this far ahead i think it leaves far ahead and i don't think the dollar provided a basis for making her solidly over the last three weeks of this campaign and i thank you both very much linking the next night we get some historical

context charlayne hunter gault has that and joining us for that out for them as our regulars presidential historians doris kearns goodwin and michael beschloss journalist and author haynes johnson and william kristol editor and publisher of the weekly standard and our ship there are by philip let's hear what you have to say about different format what about the outcome well it seemed to me that after all the grandiose talk this week that there might be a knockout punch on character from dole it really seem more like it series of ineffective jabs on the character issue you just mentioned them they kept popping up whether it was a wall and drugs or whether it was the fbi files and then or seemed to be out of sync with the question so it seemed like he just had a list of things he had to get out and i don't think people can respond that have to be really taken on altogether or else not brought up in that same sense that even if he had taken on it get to this whole week of telling everybody was going to do when clinton surely would've been prepared the only way you do it is to surprise somebody don't tell them in the fifth round them into a knockout punch and if clinton had really felt that those character jess had gotten to him i think he would have responded it was better off not

doing that i also think that the last a little bit on the age question that could have been a great question for him as it was for reagan many years ago you didn't have a good beginning but then he went off into policy should've said what you need in a president ed conviction unique acting any ideas age doesn't matter on those things it says a lingering doubt on the part of the people and i guess lastly i just say i think the refrain that he kept using that somehow he has no idea so he's trashing ours and it's common about we have the worst economy this century may not even a gaffe like eastern europe with forty but was a pretty silly refrain that lacked gravity so i think and all those things he really did miss out on what he might have done however build the crew are actually especially in format that in this postseason strong open credit they did not do enough to do now in the knockout punch that republicans were hoping for and are really really expected and there was this rather touching moment when dodd has some leeway said for the sake of people who may still be watching that he acknowledged that basically it had not

been a transformative debate in october debate would grab the attention the american people and by cardinals want to avoid are lawful and they forget it maybe acknowledging that the election is over michael cacace a gray don't want them going forward about is this format this is the only the second time in history we've had this kind of town hall meeting debate in the presidential campaign and i thought which meant in nineteen ninety two was not terribly promising that i think a lot of it got very trivial also there seem to be a sense that it inevitably would favor the person who was a better television performer and also of one of the candidates made serious high minded criticism of the opponent that would look me in and so therefore that would be barred to one of the people the debate i think none of those things really came to pass tonight so in a way i think was a vindication of the format i think bob dole determine a better performance than during the first of a particular during the first half of what we saw this evening so i think that helps but i think looking at this over the whole

course of these debates in this campaign and i think one thing you have to say in that is that if bob dylan been running in the american politics and seventy eighty years ago i think he'd be running much better now because without television without this kind of debate i think the fact that he is somewhat holding his ability to communicate would not harmed i think in this age where television so important with debates really center of the public attention i think he's been operating in a handicapped really all this fall and getting things different fascinating and has been with your colleagues this is the third time we've done this and the same phrase a sports metaphor no not thirty and nothing really changed yes you might add a little better and so forth and i think that's really what happened i thought the poignancy about this survey center <unk> very strong much more forcefully he raised the question to moderate with a blueprint for most are set all week and then it didn't do what i wake up to the snap bishop eventually kept repeating itself and coming back in and this format is made for

bill he addresses every question he walks right to the person he doesn't like rescue doesn't let himself get off the response specifically joining knows what he's talking about it seems impressive all the things that we want most skilled before in the television age where on the recently posted moment's notice something interesting earlier he said that there were some lasting soundbites instead of the memorable lines did you hear any memorable lines in this debate i think occasionally aphorisms one there was a reference to the lack of a tax cut that was paid for him to handle made that remark yes the last time he ran in nineteen ninety two but in a way it's a problem with this whole format which is that it really turns on these quick and clever remarks my question is as i really have a lot to do with they are great president are not so sure and let it be there were two

moments that very quickly the land the president turned an economic question said if you believe in this formulation of oddly if you believe the california is better in nineteen ninety six it made you that was in nineteen ninety six you are of pablo was a long pause and when california remembers a disaster for his forties and the depression that it was it was a moment that coin and politically they're called qr especially when poland was often when he didn't live our lives you did not economists you have to take to come back in ten or fifteen points down conferences traces of inarticulate anti gay prejudice rather we're saying is that he didn't make a principal defense the traditional family against alternative lifestyles he didn't turn to clinton and say to him directly what he said in the speech yesterday about you mr president of market a perfectly in office you've got our old standards he didn't do that two or three things the bold things and taking a clinton directly for taking on some of the audience directly it would've been a dramatic moment without risking moment but it might be dramatic

moment that could have changed the character of the campaign doris has ever happened historically data that following dr prescription that william kristol just outlined a candidate coming from behind has actually changed the outcome certainly not in the last debate like this i mean i think you can change the tone of the campaign early in the debate as john kennedy did with richard nixon showing that his youth and inexperience were not a problem because he could stand next to richard nixon and that helped a great deal but coming at this late date i think if president it that president clinton had been attacked on the character by going to really mean way it was one debate tonight he should have cut it last time and this one that doesn't lend itself to that with the audience one issues that's what happened in ninety two bush wanted to attack clinton's character than the audience did ask the questions that allowed him to do it but one thing that should be said for president support for senator dole is that i think he did a better job than president bush did in this format remember how much stiffer bush was clinton clearly won in the

upper the format last time this time dahl came out from behind the podium he went halfway to the audience even though clinton sort of wrapped his arms almost around the people that he was further down but still he seemed more relaxed i think than bush did four years ago elizabeth rhine i mean we're not conscious of cigar that's mark shields and partially go oh well we'll work can conservatives very conservative republicans especially religious conservatives be upset with bob dole because he did not i don't advocate for the social issues that are of great concern abortion for example or antiabortion more well he didn't grow up as a question but he didn't bring it up and he and particularly miss the opportunity of the partial birth abortion veto that the president had which shows is a big issue with conservatives he did mention the voluntary school prayer issue which show which will resonate with a lot of voters and i thought it was quite gotten online but from an affirmative action of the president gave

two inches of affirmative action he's for it and he's against and bob dole did try to nail on an unpaid about i want to say something else but i'm struck with a twist in this debate tonight bob dole two or three times defended the republican congress when a lot of republicans had been afraid he wouldn't he any ward about the democratic control of both the congress and the white house bill clinton despite a fifteen point lead and despite its clearly running out the clock they've never once said if we have a democratic congress we can do an awful lot for this country he never once put into his own lead and his own position on the line for that kind of request and i think that that may come back to haunt him if in fact republicans hold in congress so next time mark shields do you think that will hunt pokemon i'm not so haunted by the bill clinton understands that the american people have a sense of checks and balances not only constitutionally but politically when asked the question

and now the wall street journal's own poll they would prefer to have a year dr kay president of public policy and critically with a censored then things have worked pretty well is less true for months apart assist a partisan appeal might not been helpful and i was reminded of watching and looking for bill crystals knockout punch that they're bruce babbitt the former arizona governor nineteen eighty eight democratic presidential candidate observe once the presidential debates are like the pandas mating at the zoo that they either with great expectations of this tremendous hustle and commotion but there's never any real results and i don't think that race was dramatically changed by tonight's events although i think that the senate bill did do better and won the first half well mark and paul thank you very much and that's it for the special edition of the newshour will see you one line in here again tomorrow evening at a regular time with more reaction to tonight's event i'm elizabeth farnsworth thank you and goodnight

the company and the world and my new york life yet another example of new york lives wise investment philosophy and by the corporation for public broadcasting and by the annual financial support from viewers like you it's been sixteen years as both