The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

RAY SUAREZ: Good evening. I'm Ray Suarez. Jim Lehrer is away. On the NewsHour tonight: a summary of the news, the German foreign minister on Iraq; terrorism and German-American relations, secularism and Islam in Turkey's elections; homeland security with Gary Hart and Warren Rudman; and the five-day U.S. Senate campaign in Minnesota.

NEWS SUMMARY

RAY SUAREZ: The U.S. economy showed strong growth in the third quarter. The Commerce Department reported today the Gross Domestic Product expanded at an annual rate of 3.1% from July through September. That was more than twice the growth rate of the previous quarter. Heavy consumer spending, especially on new cars, led the way. On Wall Street today, the Dow Jones Industrial Average lost 30 points to close at 8397. The NASDAQ was up about three points, at 1329. A new political storm erupted today over the choice of William Webster to head an accounting industry oversight board. The Securities and Exchange Commission picked the former FBI and CIA director for the post last week. Today, the "New York Times" reported Webster had led the auditing committee of U.S. Technologies, a company now accused of fraud. The report said Webster informed SEC Chairman Harvey Pitt, but Pitt never told his fellow commissioners. Today, the chairman asked for an internal inquiry into the selection process. But Democrats called again for Pitt to resign. They included Maryland Senator Paul Sarbanes, who sponsored the legislation that established the accounting oversight board.

SEN. PAUL SARBANES: This whole process is enough to make you weep, particularly when you think of the opportunity that was available to Pitt in terms of moving the reform effort forward. He had it within his grasp to name an absolutely first-rate oversight board that everyone would have looked at and said, wow, look at the credibility of this board; and he failed to do that.

RAY SUAREZ: In response, a White House spokeswoman said: "Chairman Pitt has done a good job in cracking down on corporate wrongdoing, and the SEC has a very strong record under his leadership. We support him." Enron's former Chief Financial Officer, Andrew Fastow, was indicted today on 78 federal counts. The charges formalize a criminal complaint filed earlier this month. Fastow is accused of fraud, money laundering and conspiracy in a scheme to hide debt and inflate Enron's profits. He could get hundreds of years in jail time and millions of dollars in fines. Former Vice President Walter Mondale launched his campaign for the U.S. Senate today in Minnesota. Democrats named him last night to replace the late Senator Paul Wellstone, who died in a plane crash last week. Mondale is now 74. He last ran for public office in 1984, losing the presidential race to Ronald Reagan in a landslide. Today, he was asked about his age as an issue in the race.

WALTER MONDALE: I don't apologize for my experience. I think it's an asset. I think the very things that our country needs right now in that Senate are the things that my experience permits me to bring to bear. Secondly, while the dates may be different, the fundamental problems and the challenges for the American people remain the same.

RAY SUAREZ: Mondale will face republican Norm Coleman in the Senate race. It's considered one of a handful of contests that could decide control of the Senate. We'll have more on this story later in the program. At least five children were killed in Italy today when an earthquake collapsed a nursery school. It happened near Campobasso, 50 miles northeast of Naples. The collapse triggered a desperate effort to find other children in the debris. We have a report from James Mates of Independent Television News.

JAMES MATES: A father clutches his son as he stands on top of the rubble that was once a school building. It is barely recognizable now; just a pile of stone and concrete, under which this evening as many as 30 schoolchildren and their teachers are still trapped. All afternoon they have been pulling the victims and the survivors from beneath slabs of concrete the size of boulders. They have found at least five children dead. Eight of the twenty survivors found so far are critically injured. Rescuers have been removing debris hand by hand, piece by piece to get to the children. Cranes have been brought in to gingerly lift away slabs of concrete. There is a terrible choice here between getting to the trapped children quickly, and risking a further collapse that could end kill them. The parents of the children watch, completely helpless as the rescuers work. For the tiny village of San Guiliano di Puglia, this is truly a catastrophe. The earthquake had measured 5.4 on the Richter Scale, Italy's biggest for more than five years. Almost as soon as it happened, people ran screaming onto the streets. But nowhere was as badly hit as the school. This security video filmed inside a shop shows the power of the quake at the moment it struck. This evening, teams of rescuers are preparing to work through the night to get to the rest of the children. Some at least are known to be alive. But the people of this part of Italy wait in dread at the thought of how many of these children may not have made it.

RAY SUAREZ: Late today since the report was filed search crews found the body of another child; two adults also died in the earthquake. The suspects in the Washington- area sniper case were linked to yet another murder today. Authorities in Louisiana filed warrants for John Allen Muhammad and john lee Malvo. Ballistics tests confirmed the rifle in the sniper killings was also used to kill a 45-year-old woman in Baton Rouge last month. The suspects also face murder charges in Maryland, Virginia and Alabama, as well as federal charges. Rap musician Jam Master Jay was killed at his New York recording studio last night. He was shot once in the head, but the killer got away. Jam Master Jay's real name was Jason Mizell, and he was a founding member of Run DMC. The trio is widely credited with helping bring rap music into the mainstream. The group promoted education, and opposed drugs and violence. Jam Master Jay was 37 years old. That's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on to: German Foreign Minister Fischer; religion and politics in Turkey; Hart, Rudman, and homeland security; and Minnesota's new race for the U.S. Senate.

NEWSMAKER

RAY SUAREZ: Now to our Newsmaker interview with German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer. He's the highest ranking German official to visit Washington since the German election campaign that provoked a breach between the two countries. In his successful bid for reelection, the German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder came out strongly against Bush administration policy in Iraq, chilling relations with Washington.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, Minister, welcome back to the NewsHour.

JOSCHKA FISCHER: Thank you.

RAY SUAREZ: You're the first member of the cabinet to visit Washington since the last German election. What were the nature of your discussions with your American counterpart Colin Powell yesterday?

JOSCHKA FISCHER: Well, we are in permanent contact by telephone and there are a wide range of issues we had to discuss. Of course, the war against terror, the Middle East crisis, enlargement of NATO, one of the most important issues, but also of course, irritations in our relations-- namely the dispute about Iraq, whether there should be military action or not. I think this was a very important visit and it was very fruitful and open discussions. And I think for our relations it was excellent.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, how serious are those irritations in relations? Is it just a bump in the road or something that both sides really have to take very seriously and get to work on?

JOSCHKA FISCHER: Well, we are close allies. I mean, we will never forget what the United States did for us. Our democracy is based on the second chance which we got from the United States after 1945. And youdefended us during the Cold War, five decades; and without the United States I don't believe that we would have reached so smoothly German reunification. We are very close allies. We are fighting shoulder by shoulder, our Special Forces together with U.S. Special Forces in Afghanistan. We are the biggest net troop contributor after United States. I mean, we have now in Germany 10,000 troops on the Balkans, in Afghanistan, horn of Africa. And this reflects, I think, how close our relations are. But there are differences, of course, between allies, inside the family. And therefore, I don't see there a really serious problem. If there is an irritation, I think we have to solve these irritations, overcome these irritations and come back to normal business.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, how would you describe Germany's position toward military intervention in Iraq? If you had to plead your brief to a broad spectrum of Americans, what would you tell them about what Germany wants to see in that part of the world?

JOSCHKA FISCHER: Well, first of all, we think that the main threat-- and this is not over-- is international terrorism. What we... this terrible crime of 9/11, and these terrorist forces which are behind these crime, they are still a threat. They are the major threat. And I think we must ask the question whether this is really strengthening the war against terror or not. I mean, this is our first serious question. And secondly, the question is the day after. What would it mean for the whole region? This is a very terrible, dangerous region, and what will it mean for regional stability in the Middle East? This is the Middle East, and are the United States ready to stay there for long-term? Because to go in and the United States have the military capacity to get rid of Saddam, there is no question about that, but what will be there the day after? Will the United States then stay there and guarantee peace and stability in these very dangerous neighbor region of Europe? This is the second most important question. And these questions up to now are not answered. I mean, we are fully in favor of implementation of all relevant resolutions of the Security Council. And this means that we hope that the Security Council will have a unified position to a new resolution and then implement it immediately. But we are very skeptical about a military action and the consequences of this military action. We discuss that with our American friends not only now, but since my first visit after 9/11-- it was in 18th, 19th of September, 2001, I was raising these questions with our American friends.

RAY SUAREZ: How does the German government answer some of those same questions? Does Germany believe that intervention in Iraq would be a distraction from the war on terrorism?

JOSCHKA FISCHER: Well, we are... we are deeply skeptical that this could distract from the war on terrorism, and we are deeply skeptical about regional stability. I mean, we agree fully that after 9/11, the status quo cannot be accepted any longer because it's too dangerous. And what we need is a new Middle East. But it must be based broadly on solving regional crisis and dry out the breeding ground of terrorism. I mean, in the war against terrorism, the most important battlefield are the minds and souls, especially of young people. And you have to dry out the reasons why they can be attracted by terrorists; otherwise you will lose this war. And this is no option for us. We cannot live under the threat of terrorism, and therefore we think we should discuss whether this is the right priority. But this is an ongoing debate.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, Germany is by some measure the largest country in Western Europe. And sometimes when Americans look at the size of German commitments to various overseas actions, they may forget how large a departure that is from the previous 40 years of Cold War West Germany. You, in fact, had no soldiers outside your own national territory, isn't that right?

JOSCHKA FISCHER: When I started in the office of foreign minister, I mean, we had some soldiers in Bosnia. But then it cost us about 200 million, then deutschmarks. Today we have, well, almost 10,000 troops. If you would have asked me one and a half year ago whether German troops will be in Afghanistan, I would say, "never ever. What are we doing there?" Today we'll take the lead after the Turks of the UN mission, military mission in Kabul, together with the Dutch. And we are part of enduring freedom after United States, the biggest troop contributor. For Americans, I mean, it might not be a big amount; but for Germany, with our history-- and we had a terrible history, and therefore a strong hesitation in our people to use military force because it was misused so many times in the 20th century, by German authority especially; by the Nazis. You have to understand this very specific tradition to really understand the feeling in our people. But nevertheless, I mean, we understood that we have to share the burden. And we share the burden, especially in the war against terror. And it's the first time that we sent Special Forces outside to fight together with our American allies against the terror. This is a tremendous step for us. And therefore, if there are differences, these are differences between close allies, but the substance of our alliance, the substance of our relations are excellent and deeply rooted.

RAY SUAREZ: Should Americans appreciate, should the American government appreciate, that Germany already has plenty on its plate, with EU expansion and European issues?

JOSCHKA FISCHER: A few days ago we decided to pay the farm bill of an enlarged European Union. I mean, this was a door opener now for enlargement for ten more members. This means that for the first time, NATO and the Prague Summit end of November and midst of December in the Copenhagen Summit, they will unite Europe that's an historical step and we have now reached these door that we can walk through. And Germany is contributing a lot for that and there will be no changes. That's not only based on our interests, not only on economic interests, but also because we believe that Europe is our future. And Europe without the strong role of the United States, I think, is no option. We need the United States worldwide for peace and stability, but also in Europe because transatlantic relations, this is the real pillar of our peace and security on both sides of the Atlantic.

RAY SUAREZ: The United States is looking to Turkey to provide a lot of help in security matters in the region and may also be supporting Turkey's petition to enter the EU. How does Germany look on eventual Turkish membership in the EU?

JOSCHKA FISCHER: Well, let me explain. There is a big difference between NATO and the EU. I mean, NATO means that you are an ally, yes or no. To be a member of the EU means to be a member of the coming United States of Europe. Turkey is very complicated, because on the one hand, they need the European perspective; on the other hand, they do not really match the criteria, the basics of the European Union, up to now. I mean, human rights, rule of law, market economy, that democracy is the real dominant factor and not the military. I mean, all these issues, we are working very closely with Turkey but there is a lot of work to do. But they need the European perspective, and Germany is supportive of that, but on the other side, it's a very complicated and difficult country with a huge size and will need a long time. And it's not good advice. I understand the American position, and I share a lot of these positions because Turkey by strategic interests is a dominant country in the region. And, by the way, when Turkey will successfully modernize the country, it will be the first really important Islamic country based on democracy and the rule of law and market economy which would have an own way based inside Islamic culture to modernity. And I think this would be a tremendous, tremendous success in the war against terror, but not only, but also in the war against terror. So all in all, we are supportive but we are talking about not having close relationships, friendships. We are talking about a marriage. And to marry someone because a good friend says to you, "You should marry this person," I don't know whether this is sufficient enough for a marriage. But with EU enlargement, and be full member of the enlarged union, it means to marry in a political and economical and Democratic sense. So it's a complicated issue, but we must work on that and move forward in the right direction. It means that Turkey will have a European perspective.

RAY SUAREZ: Minister, thanks for being with us today.

JOSCHKA FISCHER: Thank you.

RAY SUAREZ: Joining Europe is also a big issue in Turkey. Coming next, Elizabeth Farnsworth reports on the pre- election debate in Turkey over secularism and Islam. Also ahead, Warren Rudman and Gary Hart on homeland security, and Coleman vs. Mondale in Minnesota.

FOCUS RELIGION & POLITICS

RAY SUAREZ: Now, to Elizabeth Farnsworth's report from Istanbul, Turkey.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Turkey's largest city, Istanbul, stuns visitors with its beauty and history. It may be unique in having been the seat of both Christian and Muslim empires, and it is still the place where Islam and the West most dramatically meet. Europe ends and Asia begins here in Istanbul, and the Bosphorus is the strait that divides them. The currents are treacherous, flowing one direction on the surface and the opposite underneath. Turks have ridden those currents for centuries, as they navigated the fault line between west and east. Turkey's national hero, Kemal Ataturk, recognized the fault line and forced through a political reformation in the 1920s, which made Turkey western enough to seam a bridge between the two worlds. After helping to get rid of the Ottoman Empire, whose Islamic rulers he considered backwards, Ataturk established a secular republic. He banned the use of religion in politics, forbade the wearing of traditional Fezes and scarves in government buildings, and substituted the Latin alphabet for Arabic. The result was a country which, though more than 90% Muslim, has leaned strongly west. Cengiz Cendar is a columnist for "Yeni Shafak" newspaper.

CENGIZ CANDAR, Newspaper Columnist: We are a part of everything. We are a Balkan country. We are a country of Caucasus. We are a country of the Middle East. But we are part of the European system, both institutionally, politically, geographically, historically, and also culturally.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Parts of Turkey, especially Istanbul, look and feel like Paris or London, with sidewalk cafes and yachts on the Bosphorus worth more than the average Turk's home. But there's another Turkey, too, and it spans rich and poor. It's a world where Islam plays a huge role in everyday life, and though this world exists even in Europeanized Istanbul, it's especially strong in neighborhoods like this one in Ankara, where people live much as they did in the villages they've left behind. Women cook over communal outdoor stoves and cover their heads when outside the home. A political party claiming to speak for this Turkey may win elections this Sunday with potentially important consequences for this part of the world. Former Istanbul Mayor Tayyip Erdogan heads that party. It's called the Justice and Development, or AK Party, and it grew out of two other parties steeped in Islam that were banned in recent years by secular authorities. (Crowd cheering) At rallies like this one near Ankara, Erdogan has been careful to avoid religious subjects. He has been lauding the free market and the European Union, which Turkey wants to join. On this day, he also stressed populist themes.

TAYYIP ERDOGAN, Chairman, Justice & Development Party (Translated ): What you're telling me with this welcome, with this interest, is that Turkey will go through a major change after the November elections. (Cheers and applause) I know... I know we have problems, big problems. Unemployment is out of control. 15% of our population is hungry. 50% of you live under the poverty line. I know we have a rampant crisis in education. I know citizens are dying while waiting in line for admission to hospital.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: In response, the crowd chanted, "Tayyip prime minister. Tayyip prime minister." But unless the AK Party can win enough votes to overturn certain laws, Erdogan cannot be prime minister. Turkey's very secular election authorities have banned his candidacy because he was convicted for what a prosecutor said was "Islamist sedition" in the 1990s, for having publicly read a poem with these words: " The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers." The ban on Erdogan's candidacy, and ongoing efforts to ban the party as a whole, seem to have benefited both. Polls show the AK Party is likely to win the most votes in this Sunday's election, and could end up with a majority in parliament. Cengiz Candar, who is a staunch secularist himself, said the banning is an example of a secular zealotry in Turkey.

CENGIZ CANDAR: It's good that Turkey is an Islamic country to be secular, but, for example, in the Congress sessions in the United States, they start either by reading verses from the Holy Koran, or Bible, or Old Testament. And even on the dollar it's written, "In God We Trust." This is unthinkable in Turkey.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: AK Party candidates going door to door in Istanbul said they are campaigning for more freedom of expression generally, and that this will open the way to more religious freedom and prevent the rise of a more radical Islamic movement. Nimet Cubukcu has been a human rights lawyer in Istanbul for many years.

NIMET CUBUKCU, Justice & Development Party Candidate (Translated): The most frequent violations of human rights that I've witnessed in Turkey relate to thought and freedom of expression. People are punished simply for expressing their thoughts. Turkey, which is a candidate for the European Union, must improve its record in this respect. Laws restricting freedom of expression must be repealed.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Ibrahim Ozal is one of the founders of the AK Party, and nephew of a former prime minister. He graduated from a college in Istanbul founded by American missionaries, but he is a devout Muslim who said he tries to pray five times a day as dictated by his religion.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Is there any tie between your religious affiliation and the AK Party?

IBRAHIM OZAL, Justice & Development Party Candidate: No, definitely not. As a party, as an institution, we have no politics based on religion. We have nothing to do with that. As a person, though, I try to be a religious person. I try to observe my... the religious principles of Islam, but this is only for myself. It has nothing to do with our thinking of running the government.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: But candidates for parliament from parties like the CHP, which was founded by the secularist Ataturk, say the AK Party may have a hidden agenda. Kemal Dervis is a former minister of economy.

KEMAL DERVIS, Republican People's Party: Well, I think there is a part of them, frankly, in my view, that do not really believe in secularism as a model for society. They have to say it. You know, legally they cannot not say it, but I am pretty sure that not all of them, but many of them do not have a secular Turkey as their model, as their dream; they do have a religious state as their dream.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Sedat Ergin, Ankara bureau chief for "Hurriyet" newspaper, agrees. He said a look at Erdogan's public record reveals his true intentions.

SEDAT ERGIN, Newspaper Bureau Chief: He went public by saying that his only reference is Islam, and that if they assume responsibility in government, they would amend, change the laws in accord with Islamic principles.

IBRAHIM OZAL: There are these accusations, and of course some people will believe this, but I believe that after we come to the... come to power as a government, and they see how we run the government, they will realize afterwards that it is as we tell them.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: We also visited other poorer neighborhoods of Istanbul with AK candidates. In this one, the party could win up to 80% of the votes according to polls. A big issue for women in this neighborhood is the ban on wearing religious garb in government offices and schools, including universities. Erdogan's wife covers her head, and his daughters attend school in America, where they're free to wear scarves to class. Women here said they were angry about the restrictions on what they can wear. "Of course we're angry," she said, "because our daughters, who wear scarves, can't go to school. Even we can't go some places because of our headscarves. The government doesn't like them." The scarf issue has become a flash point, and women have gone to the streets to protest the government restrictions. Erdogan has said in the past he wants a loosening of the laws on religious clothing. The question is, if the AK Party does well in the elections, are there ways to override the ban on his candidacy so he can become prime minister and make good on his promises?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Will laws be changed so that you can be prime minister?

TAYYIP ERDOGAN (Translated): This is not really a personal question, but rather one that concerns the nation. As long as bans of this type are in place, it's not Tayyip Erdogan who's being stopped, it's democracy that is being impeded and wounded.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Erdogan and other AK candidates watch what they say because of fear of what the military might do. Since Ataturk, Turkey's generals have been the country's most ardent defenders of secularism. Retired Major General Armagan Kuloglu:

GEN. ARMAGAN KULOGLU (Ret.), ASAM Center for Eurasian & Strategic Studies: The secularism is very important for Turkey, and Turks are, of course, very sensitive about the subject because if we lose secularism, we can go to the Middle Ages.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And specifically, he said, without secularism, Turkey could be led by fundamentalists, like Iran. The military has actively intervened over the years when secularism seemed threatened-- most recently in 1997, when tanks were sent into the streets of Sincan, near Ankara, to intimidate a mayor considered provocatively Islamist. Later that year, the military helped force out of office the prime minister who founded the Islamic party AK grew out of. Columnist Cengiz Candar said Turkey can't be a strong bridge between East and west, unless Islamic ideas can be more openly expressed.

CENGIZ CANDAR: We are Muslims, and being Muslims we can contribute to the civilization; therefore we cannot throw away Islam to satisfy secularism or those who want to see us role models for the Islamic world being staunchly secularist.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: This is an especially tense time for Turkey to be in the midst of controversial elections like these because of the looming issue of Iraq. Erdogan has avoided saying much about Iraq except that Turkey will help the United States if it becomes necessary. The problem is, who will the United States deal with if there is a war soon?

SEDAT ERGIN: If I were a military planner in Washington, DC, in the Pentagon, I think first I would wait for the outcome of the elections in Turkey. The elections will take place November 3. Then it could take a month or two till we have a new government. Only then, I think, the American administration could find a relevant interlocutor in Ankara.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: The elections also coincide with another big problem for Turkey. As we were leaving Istanbul two weeks ago, people in the streets expressed their discontent over recent news that Turkey may not get a date soon for entry into the European Union, even though 12 other nations, including Bulgaria and Romania will.

FERHAT SENATALAR: The European union's decision is completely a political one, because they accept to take the other -- old East European countries; that they are much more backwards, much more less prepared to enter into the European Union, and they accept them; they don't accept Turkey.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: In meetings this month, EU officials praised recent reforms in Turkey like ending the death penalty, but insisted the country has still not fulfilled the criteria for entry, which include an end to torture and respect for minority rights. Some people here said they fear the EU may never accept them.

HUSNU PAKER (Translated ): I'm convinced that the reason is that Turkey is an Islamic country. I remember recently when a European prime minister said insulting things about Islam and Turkey because Turkey is a Muslim country.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: With a decision from the EU due in December, war with Iraq a possibility soon, and elections this weekend, the Turkey of Ataturk, who is buried in this mausoleum, is at a critical juncture in its attempts to balance secularism and religion, West and East.

FOCUS SECURING THE HOMELAND

RAY SUAREZ: Now, a new report about U.S. vulnerability to a major terrorist attack. Margaret Warner has that.

MARGARET WARNER: The report, called "America still unprepared; America still in danger," was issued last Friday by a panel headed by two former Senators. Its key conclusion: "A year after September 11, 2001, America remains dangerously unprepared to prevent and respond to a catastrophic terrorist attack on U.S. soil." Among the most vulnerable areas: Shipping containers, seaports and border crossings; energy distribution facilities like power plants, pumping stations and pipeline compressor stations; food and water supplies; state and local law enforcement agencies lacking intelligence information, equipment and training; and a public health system unable to quickly detect, contain and respond to chemical or biological attacks. The panel made recommendations to address these problems, and urged Congress to act within a year. The study's co-chairmen were former Democratic Senator Gary Hart and former Republican Senator Warren Rudman. They led a previous commission warning of catastrophic attacks on American soil nine months before September 11. And Senators Hart and Rudman join us now to discuss their new report. Welcome to you both. Let's start out by having you flesh out for us a couple of these major sort of danger spots. Senator Rudman, beginning with you, seaports, shipping containers, border crossings. What's the problem?

FORMER SEN. WARREN RUDMAN: Well, the problem, of course, is a matter of volume. There are about 50,000 containers that enter the country each day in our Pacific, Atlantic and Gulf ports. About 1% have been inspected. I'm very heartened today that Commissioner Bonner has announced a system that we have been advocating for a long time and advocated in our previous report the pre-certification, if you will, of containers overseas. So we have some idea of which containers are coming from whom, who the shippers are, who the recipients are and to make sure that they haven't been tampered with on the way. These are really serious matters. With all due respect we're spending $200-$300 million additionally on airport security. The real threat from weapons of mass destruction is much more apt to come in containers. So that is a very serious issue which is starting to be addressed. We're delighted to see it's being addressed but a lot of work yet has to be done both by the government and the private sector.

MARGARET WARNER: All right. Senator Hart, take another one. You put all of this in one area. I know it's a lot. The energy infrastructure, food and water supplies.

FORMER SEN. GARY HART: What we identified in our first commission and in this task force report what was is generally called the critical infrastructure. Those are the basic industries and systems upon which our economy and our society are based. It includes financial structures, communication systems, all transportation including seaports and, of course, energy production and distribution. And what we found was in the course of the last year very little progress has been made at protecting the energy distribution systems especially the petroleum-based ones upon which so much of our economy is based. We called for immediate action, not within a year, but within weeks and months to protect that system. And that can be done.

MARGARET WARNER: What about water supplies? Senator Hart?

FORMER SEN. GARY HART: Well, that also together with our food supplies are critical to the operation of our society. And here the protection or the training and equipping of our public and private health care systems is absolutely crucial. Not nearly enough has been done in that regard. State and local public health people and private health people are still waiting for direction and financial assistance from the federal government. We need to prevent chemical or biological attacks on our water and our food. But if the worst thing happens, we have to be prepared to limit that damage to human beings and to our economy. And we're not prepared for that today.

MARGARET WARNER: Senator Rudman, one common thread through this report was that so many of these targets are not government owned but privately owned. And you said that that presents special hurdles. What's the problem? What are the challenges that presents?

FORMER SEN. WARREN RUDMAN: Well, interestingly enough, some of the very laws that were designed to protect Americans from corporate predators are the very laws that in this particular case can inhibit them from working together. We've got antitrust laws which if they coordinate their efforts, some of them are very properly concerned that they could be attacked for violating antitrust laws. Of course very interestingly a lot of this infrastructure that Gary has talked about is covered by many procedures of corporations that want their business and trade secrets kept private. They're concerned about Freedom of Information Act invasion, if you will, into what they try to do. So we recommend that there be some very reasonable exemptions in these and other areas to ensure that the private sector, which has a huge amount to do in this area, is able to do its job and do it properly. We don't think this is difficult to do.

MARGARET WARNER: Senator Hart,....

FORMER SEN. GARY HART: Could I just.

MARGARET WARNER: Please weigh in on that, please.

FORMER SEN. GARY HART: There is also the issue of who pays. It's a question of will the taxpayers of the United States pay for the improvement of security in these critical industries or will the consumers? There are... there is legislation presently before Congress in a couple of industries where it would be required for the companies themselves to pay for the cost of enhanced security and pass that on, of course, to their customers and consumers. Those industries are lobbying against that legislation. And I think the President has to say to them, don't do that. You are part of the solution to our national security, and you have to weigh in and help us.

MARGARET WARNER: Senator Rudman, go back to something Senator hart raised earlier which is about sort of state and local, these first responders and how basically ill equipped they are and what they lack. How would you fix that?

FORMER SEN. WARREN RUDMAN: Margaret, we were very fortunate to have on this remarkable panel at the Council of Foreign Relations put together -- Jim Kallstrom who I think is known to you and most Americans an extraordinary FBI agent who as you know was involved in the TWA shoot down and in the last year has been helping Governor Pataki of New York and those enormous problems in that city. Jim was a great resource to us, and he pointed out to us that although there have been some efforts made a great deal has to be done in making sure that local law enforcement, local officials, state officials, have up to date intelligence data. There's a way to do that without compromising sources and methods. It has to be a crash program. I know that the director of the CIA, George Tenet, the director of the FBI, Bob Mueller, very much favor this. I know they're working towards it. But it has to become a national priority. After all, when these events happen, it is the local responders, the police of New York, Boston, Minneapolis, Denver, San Francisco, wherever, that are the people who have to face the issue up front. They ought to have much better intelligence as to what is going on. Of course, we speak a great deal about the training and the equipment and the communications they need, which only the federal government can really step forward and provide.

MARGARET WARNER: That's another thing that's missing, Senator Hart, it seems, is sort of federal coordination here. In other words, the picture you painted was a lot of localities, some have spent some money to do some things but it's all kind of disorganized.

FORMER SEN. GARY HART: I think that's true. And that's the very central reason why the first and most important recommendation of 50 that our commission made to the new administration, the Congress in January 2001 was to create a national homeland security agency to reorganize and coordinate the disparate pieces in the federal government that go into protecting this country. Now the President after about a year-and-a-half endorsed that proposal. Legislation was submitted to Congress but it's still locked up and it's locked up primarily because of a failure of the two parties and two ideologies to get together. We're going to have to put the national interest and national security interest before those partisan and special interest considerations and get that department created immediately.

MARGARET WARNER: Senator Rudman, as you know, the White House reacted rather coolly to this report, the homeland security director Tom Ridge said up didn't take into account all the things they had done. What's your response to that?

FORMER SEN. WARREN RUDMAN: I really wish they wouldn't be that defense he have. You have George Shultz and Warren Christopher, Jim Kallstrom, two former chairman of the joint chiefs. These are not people unfriendly to this administration. Certainly we're not unfriendly to this administration or to tom ridge. We think this report ought to be very careful. You know, people in government-- and I understand this-- tend to be very defensive about suggestions that are made. I think Tom Ridge has done a first rate job. It's been a little over the year. We're not faulting the administration. We say that clearly. Anyone who knows this problem cannot look at this report and say that we haven't hit the target on these items.

MARGARET WARNER: Senator Hart, you both are old Washington hands so I know you don't live here anymore. What do you think is really missing here? Is it political will? Is it money, leadership

FORMER SEN. GARY HART: It's a sense of urgency. It's a sense of urgency. That's what this report was about. I don't think anyone quarrels with the need to do these things. The question is how urgent and how immediate must they be done? And what we're trying to do is get the American people to say to their elected officials of both parties and both branches of government, "Get on with it." Particularly when we go to war in Iraq the threat against this country will spike. It will go up. We shouldn't even contemplate invading Iraq until we are prepared to deal with the consequences of that invasion.

FORMER SEN. WARREN RUDMAN: Margaret, could I just add to that?

MARGARET WARNER: Yes, please.

FORMER SEN. WARREN RUDMAN: You know, I said to someone the other day if U.S. Intelligence told us with certainty that a particular city in America was going to be the subject of an anthrax attack between the 1st and the 15th of February of next year, does anybody have any doubt that we would do everything we had to do to respond to that with public health, with law enforcement, federal, state, local? We would do everything necessary. Why do we have to wait for it to happen? Why can't we move ahead with it now? That is the point to this report.

MARGARET WARNER: But, Senator Hart essentially what your report is saying is even if there was intelligence right now that said in early February there is going to be some kind of an attack on some kind of a sector of our economy that really the mechanisms aren't in place to fry to prevent that attack.

FORMER SEN. GARY HART: Unless we knew where it was going to occur you're absolutely right. The part of Warren's equation is, he hypothesizes a specific place. And that we could get prepared for but we are probably not going to know where the next attack will occur.

MARGARET WARNER: Yet Senator Rudman I don't think the next time the American public will just blame the intelligence agencies, will they?

FORMER SEN. WARREN RUDMAN: Let me tell you something, Margaret. I will tell you what I said in my testimony before the Joint Intelligence Committee. If, in fact, as George Tenet has predicted-- and we agree with him-- there is another attack of some kind and large numbers of Americans, innocent people, lose their lives, I will tell you there will be a high political price to pay for everyone in government and no one will discriminate between parties. I think that's a message that people ought to understand.

MARGARET WARNER: All right, Senators Hart and Rudman, thank you both.

SERIES BATTLE FOR THE SENATE

RAY SUAREZ: A dramatically altered race for the U.S. Senate crammed into five days. Fred de Sam Lazaro of Twin Cities Public Television reports.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Five days after their standard-bearer died in a plane crash, Minnesota Democrats at an 11th hour convention named their elder statesman to take on the mantle.

SPOKESMAN: It is our honor and pleased to place in nomination, Walter F. Mondale for the United States Senate.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: In six days, Walter Mondale hopes to return to a chamber he served for 12 years before leaving in 1976 to become Jimmy Carter's Vice President. He officially returned to active politics with an acceptance speech before a crowd of 800 party faithful, including many Paul Wellstone campaign workers.

WALTER MONDALE: When Paul was first sworn in as Senator, he asked me to walk down the Senate aisle with him to present his credentials. A decade later, under awful circumstances, his son, David Wellstone, told me that his family wanted me to carry on for him. And when Joan and I talked it over, we knew we had to do it, and we knew we wanted to do it.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: As mourners continued to visit the impromptu memorial to Senator Wellstone, his wife, daughter and five others lost in last Friday's crash, Mondale said he'd set a new tone in what had been a hard-fought, often bitter race.

WALTER MONDALE: If there was ever a time to put aside political dog fighting, now is the time. (Applause) We need to honor what the people of our state are going through. We need time to heal, and my campaign must help in that healing.

COLEMAN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL: Today, all of Minnesota grieves. The prayers of Laurie and I go out to the families of Paul and Sheila and Marsha and all those who lost loved ones.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Republican Norm Coleman echoed the theme as he aired his first commercials since the crash.

NORM COLEMAN COMMERCIAL: This election is about hope, and opportunity, about jobs; it's about quality education for our kids; it's about taking care of our parents and grandparents; it's about changing the tone in Washington.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: The tone of the campaign changed markedly on Tuesday at a memorial service planned by the Wellstone family to honor those killed in the crash. Republicans say it turned into a political rally and Iowa Senator Tom Harkin, in particular, was criticized.

SEN. TOM HARKIN: Keep standing up. Keep fighting. Keep saying yes to justice, to hope for people, for Paul! For Paul!

SPOKESMAN: I'd like to make an announcement so that there is no confusion, all right? This is a political rally. ( Cheers )

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Last night, Republican Party Chairman Ron Erbensteiner accused the Democrats of abusing the memorial event.

ROB EBENSTEINER, Minnesota Republican Party Chair: People here were expecting a memorial service for Senator Paul Wellstone; instead it was a planned political rally.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: You say planned?

ROB EBENSTEINER: Planned political rally.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: But his Democratic counterpart, Mike Erlandson, insisted the event was not planned as a political rally.

MIKE ERLANDSON, Minnesota Democratic Party Chair: You know, we regret if people felt that was a political rally it wasn't. It was a memorial service for as popular a politician as the state of Minnesota has ever seen. It was particularly amongst working men and women who were there en mass and grieving deeply.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: In his re-launched campaign Norm Coleman told the St. Paul rally that he was in touch with the needs of everyday Minnesotans having campaigned hard for two years.

NORM COLEMAN: Americans and Minnesotans we work. No one by the way, no one gives you anything. It's not by entitlement in this state. This is not about holding a place. This is not about national party politics. This is about working, working for the people of Minnesota, for their future.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Coleman admitted the campaign's unusual circumstances have left a lot of uncertainty.

NORM COLEMAN: I guess two concerns honestly. One is that you run against a famous name, somebody who is part of Minnesota history. I think it's balanced by my firm belief that people are looking to the future. And secondly, that we sort out the deep emotional pain. I don't know where that goes. I can't measure that. In the end we have to get back to work.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: In a very tight race both sides are battling over absentee ballots before Minnesota's Supreme Court. Late today the court ordered local election officials to send out new absentee ballots to people who asked to change their vote in the wake of Senator Wellstone's death.

SPOKESMAN: None of us here control the matter of luck.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: As lawyers for both parties argued this morning, Mondale began making his case at a news conference reacquainting himself with a new generation of Minnesota voters.

WALTER MONDALE: And there's a lot to do and in an almost weird way no time within which to do it. I want to hear from Minnesotans, and you want them to hear from me about how I see our future and how we have to deal with it.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: With just five days to go, both Mondale and Coleman say the race is as much against time as each other. As Democrats hope to prevail with the blue chip Minnesota political name, Republicans are hoping for a boost from President Bush who will visit this weekend.

RECAP

RAY SUAREZ: Again, the other major developments of the day: The U.S. economy showed strong growth in the third quarter, expanding at a rate of 3.1%. The former Chief Financial Officer of Enron, Andrew Fastow, was indicted on 78 federal counts, including fraud and conspiracy. And at least six children were killed in Italy when an earthquake collapsed a nursery school 50 miles northeast of Naples. Dozens more were trapped in the rubble. Finally a correction, former Senator Warren Rudman said he did not mean to use the word "shoot down" to describe the TWA crash off Long Island in 1996. We'll see you online, and again here tomorrow evening with Shields and Brooks, among others. I'm Ray Suarez. Thanks and good night.