The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

JUDY WOODRUFF: Good evening. I`m Judy Woodruff.

On the NewsHour tonight: the news of this Memorial Day; then, today`s talks in Iraq between the U.S. and Iran, two analysts discuss what was accomplished; plus, an update on the Iranian-Americans being detained in their homeland; the campaign to save an endangered children`s health insurance program; and "Where Valor Rests," a book of remarkable photographs of Arlington National Cemetery.

(BREAK)

JUDY WOODRUFF: America honored its war dead on this Memorial Day with a main focus on those killed in Iraq. President Bush hailed them as a new generation of heroes. He visited Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia this morning and laid a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns. He paid tribute to the fallen, and he said, even after years of war, thousands of Americans are enlisting and re-enlisting.

GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States: Those who serve are not fatalists or cynics. They know that one day this war will end, as all wars do. Our duty is to ensure that its outcome justifies the sacrifices made by those who fought and died in it. From their deaths must come a world where the cruel dreams of tyrants and terrorists are frustrated and foiled, where our nation is more secure from attack.

JUDY WOODRUFF: At least 10 more Americans were killed in Iraq over the weekend. With their deaths, the U.S. toll in Iraq passed 100 for the month of May. More than 3,450 Americans have been killed since the war began in 2003.

In Baghdad today, the United States and Iran held a rare meeting to talk about the Iraqi situation. The two countries broke diplomatic ties after the Iranian revolution and the seizure of the U.S. embassy in 1979. Today, American Ambassador Ryan Crocker said Iran denied supporting militants, but agreed Iraq must be peaceful and stable.

RYAN CROCKER, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq: At the level of principle and policy, there was broad agreement, Iraqis, Iranians and Americans. In terms of security specifics, we laid out a number of them. The Iranians did not offer any detailed response. They did say they rejected such allegations, but, again, there was no detailed exchange.

JUDY WOODRUFF: The Iranian ambassador said his country offered to train and equip Iraq`s army and police. He did not give details, but made this general statement of support after the talks.

HASSAN KAZEMI QOMI, Iranian Ambassador to Iraq (through translator): The two parties in this meeting have agreed upon a mutual stance to support the elected Iraqi government concerning the national unity and national territories and authorize full sovereignty for the Iraqi government.

JUDY WOODRUFF: The Iranian said the two sides will meet again soon. Crocker did not confirm that. We`ll have more on this story right the news summary.

Even as the talks took place, a suicide car bomber struck in central Baghdad. The blast killed at least 21 Iraqis in a busy commercial district. Scores more were wounded. A nearby Sunni Muslim shrine was also damaged. Fifteen Iraqis died in other bombings and shootings in the city, and police found the bodies of more than 30 shooting victims.

As many as 380 civilians have been killed in Afghanistan in the first four months of this year; the United Nations reported that today. It urged U.S. and NATO forces, as well as the Taliban, to protect those not involved in the fighting.

In the south, witnesses in Helmand province said at least seven more civilians died Sunday in a 10-hour battle. At least 24 militants were killed, as well.

Palestinian leaders tried today to end a week-old standoff in Lebanon. The Lebanese army is facing Islamist militants who are holed up at a Palestinian refugee camp. Palestinian factions hope to work out a deal to keep the violence from spreading to other camps.

The government of Japan was dealt a new blow today, when the minister of agriculture hanged himself. He had been implicated in alleged fraud and bid-rigging. He killed himself hours before a parliamentary committee planned to question him. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe`s cabinet has faced a series of scandals since taking power last year.

That`s it for the news summary tonight. Now: talking to Tehran; the Iranian-American detainees; saving children`s health insurance; and Arlington National Cemetery, "Where Valor Rests."

(BREAK)

JUDY WOODRUFF: Gwen Ifill has our story on the U.S.-Iran talks.

GWEN IFILL: Today`s four-hour meetings in Baghdad were the highest- level talks between the United States and Iran in decades. The discussions were limited to Iraq, part of U.S. efforts to enlist neighboring countries to help end sectarian violence there.

U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker said afterward he saw positive steps during the meeting, which he said was "businesslike." But Iran rejected one key U.S. complaint: that Iran is supporting militias inside Iraq.

RYAN CROCKER, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq: We also made it clear, from the American point of view, that this is about actions, not just principles. And I laid out before the Iranians a number of our direct, specific concerns about their behavior in Iraq, their support for militias that are fighting both the Iraqi security forces and coalition forces.

GWEN IFILL: For his part, the Iranian envoy said he proposed forming a committee to help the Iraqi government with security matters. He pressed for a second round of meetings with the U.S. next month.

For more than a year, American officials have alleged Iran is providing weapons to Shiite Iraqi insurgents, including a particularly deadly device called explosively formed projectiles, or EFPs. Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace described the threat in a briefing earlier this month.

PETER PACE, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs: There were more explosively formed projectiles this month than any month in the past. To the best of our knowledge, all of them are manufactured in Iran, so that`s not a good trend. It still, though, is not possible to point directly to who inside of Iran is supplying those or who has knowledge of those.

GWEN IFILL: But differences between the U.S. and Iran have also been escalating on a host of other issues. Last week, the U.S. increased its military presence in the Persian Gulf, moving nine warships, including two aircraft carriers, into the region for war games.

And the talks did not address the highly charged issue of Iran`s nuclear program. Last Wednesday, the International Atomic Energy Agency, or IAEA, said Iran has expanded efforts to enrich uranium, despite international demands they stop. The report also said inspectors are being blocked from sensitive sites.

The chief U.N. inspector, Mohamed ElBaradei, said the best hope now is to contain Iran`s program, not to stop it altogether. "Unchecked," he said, "Iran will complete the program in a few years."

MOHAMED ELBARADEI, Director General, IAEA: Iran, even if it wants to go for the nuclear weapon, they are still not -- it will not be before the end of this decade or some time in the middle of the next decade, in other words, three to eight years from now.

GWEN IFILL: Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told a crowd in Tehran the international community is backing down. He spoke last Thursday.

MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, President of Iran (through translator): Iran has reached the end of the path of benefiting from all nuclear capabilities, and we are near the peak now. The resistance of our enemies has already been weakened and will be weakened day by day.

GWEN IFILL: Iran has insisted its nuclear program is designed to generate electricity, but the U.S. and others say it`s for weapons.

At a Rose Garden news conference last week, President Bush called again for stepped-up United Nations sanctions directed against Iran.

GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States: They continue to be defiant as to the demands of the free world. The world has spoken and said, you know, "No nuclear weapons programs," and yet they`re constantly ignoring the demands. My view is that we need to strengthen our sanction regime.

GWEN IFILL: The president also condemned Iran for detaining three Iranian-Americans, a subject that was not brought up at today`s meetings.

GEORGE W. BUSH: To the extent that these people are picking up innocent Americans, it`s unacceptable.

GWEN IFILL: Among those detained: Kian Tajbakhsh, a consultant working for George Soros` Open Society Institute, he was jailed May 11th; Haleh Esfandiari, director of the Middle East program at the Washington- based Woodrow Wilson Center for Scholars, she`s been under virtual house arrest since December and in prison since early this month; journalist Parnaz Azima, who is prohibited from leaving the country. In January, authorities seized her passport. She works for the U.S.-funded Radio Farda.

Iran has dismissed calls to free them. Instead, they counter, the U.S. is holding five Iranians as hostages. They were seized in northern Iraq in January. Iranian officials say they`re diplomats, but the U.S. charges they`re linked to an Iranian group that provides weapons to Iraqi insurgents.

Two views now on today`s talks and where they might lead. Peter Rodman served as assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs until earlier this year. He`s now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution.

And Cliff Kupchan is a director of the Eurasia Group, a political risk analysis firm. He has served in the State Department and on the staff of the House International Relations Committee.

Mr. Rodman, were these talks today a good idea?

PETER RODMAN, The Brookings Institution: I have my doubts. I have not really opposed this kind of low-level talk in the past, but my expectations have been very low. And I think those expectations will be fulfilled. But there`s a downside. Whenever you do something like this that has so much media attention and international attention, there`s a risk you`re taking.

GWEN IFILL: What`s that risk?

PETER RODMAN: Well, several things. One is that, inside Iran, there are opponents of the regime who I think may be very demoralized if they see the United States apparently softening its posture toward the regime.

In Iraq, I think one of the things we want to do is reduce Iranian influence in Iraq. And to have a discussion, particularly a high- visibility discussion with Iran about Iraq, gives Iran the kind of status, as if it is the arbiter of Iraq`s future, which is the opposite of what we should be trying to do.

And, third, in the region as a whole, I think our friends, our Arab friends, our Israeli friends are very nervous about Iran as a threat to the region. And I think they would be very unnerved if they saw our posture toward Iran as weakening in any respect.

GWEN IFILL: Mr. Kupchan, upsides? We just heard the downsides, are there any upsides to this meeting?

CLIFF KUPCHAN, The Eurasia Group: Well, I have a somewhat different take than Peter. I think this was not a breakthrough, but a really good first step.

The Iranians have been resistant to talking to the Americans. Not only have they talked today, but they proposed a second meeting and a trilateral security mechanism. Who knows what that means, but it could come to something.

But most importantly, I think, what`s been going on right now, the U.S. has been imposing sanctions, the Iranians build another thousand centrifuges. Both sides have gotten into a very, very dangerous game of mutual abduction. So, in my view, the diplomatic system needs a shock. And I think that there`s a chance diplomacy will break out now. Whether it will work or not, who knows? But I think it could be a very valuable shock to the system.

GWEN IFILL: Even though this is probably the first time we`ve had formal talks in three decades, there have been a lot of informal efforts, back channel efforts along the way. What makes today`s talks different from that?

CLIFF KUPCHAN: Because once the two sides -- and this is where, again, I think I have a slightly different take than Peter -- meet in public, they`ve got their feet in clay. And there are a lot of people in both countries that are going to have their expectations rising.

Now, I think that could create a dynamic -- again, it`s a long shot -- but it could create a dynamic that stands a chance of getting us out of this mess.

GWEN IFILL: OK, let`s go with the clay metaphor. Clay mud, clay hardens, mud doesn`t.

PETER RODMAN: The problem with Iran is not a communications problem. The problem is of irreconcilable objectives. I mean, the things they want to do in Iraq -- they want to weaken Iraq, they want to weaken the United States, they have an aspiration, I think, to dominate the Gulf, that`s the real heart of this problem. It`s not going to be cured by a meeting.

At the same time, Cliff talks about raising expectations. I worry about that, because I think it -- as I say, it may unnerve a lot of friends of ours in the region who are counting on us to be strong against Iran. And, as I said, if they see us apparently investing a whole lot in dialogue and meetings and so on, which I think will be fruitless, I think they may worry about, you know, what is happening to our policy.

GWEN IFILL: Does Iran have any self-interest, in terms of security, in making sure that the sectarian violence in Iraq is tamped down at all? Do they have a vested interest in that?

PETER RODMAN: Well, a few years ago, I hoped that would be the case, because when we went into Iraq, it was not with the object of picking another fight with Iran. So this, you know, removing Saddam Hussein was a favor we did to them. So there was a possible convergence of interest.

But what we`ve seen is Iran taking the opposite tack. I mean, here`s Iran, as you said in your piece, providing the most dangerous kinds of weapons that are killing Americans. We see Iran supporting radical groups among the Shia that are opposed to the kind of reconciliation we want to see in Iraq.

So I see an increasing divergence of objectives, and I think the best hope for dealing with that is to counter it on the ground and not to put too much hope in a meeting like this.

GWEN IFILL: Peter Rodman talks about the convergence of interests. What is the convergence of interests for the United States in a meeting like this, really?

CLIFF KUPCHAN: The convergence of interest is that Iran does not want to see Iraq fall apart. Look, when I`ve been in Tehran, when I`ve met with Iranian leaders behind closed doors, these guys are strategic in their thinking, the current president possibly withstanding that. They are quite Kissingerian, something that Peter knows a lot about.

The greatest fear among many influential members of the Iranian leadership, ironically, is that the U.S. will, in fact, leave too soon. They`ll have a failed state on their hands. They`ll have an al-Qaida- dominated Sunni triangle with a dagger pointed right at Iran. So I think the convergence of interests could become a controlled U.S. reduction of forces.

GWEN IFILL: But look what was not on the table today, nuclear -- the nuclear issue was not on the table.

CLIFF KUPCHAN: That`s right.

GWEN IFILL: Iran`s role in the larger region, involving Hamas and Hezbollah, was not on the table.

CLIFF KUPCHAN: That`s right.

GWEN IFILL: So you think even a baby step, where they just agree to talk, is worth it?

CLIFF KUPCHAN: Look, after 28 years, I think it`s hard, in my view, to call this a baby step. I think this is a pretty big step.

But more to the point, this talk is not occurring in a vacuum. On Thursday, Ali Larijani, their chief nuclear weapons negotiator, will meet with the E.U. chief Javier Solana, and they will be talking about the nuclear issue.

Now, I think core to Iran`s strategy will be to link the talks on Iraq, where they feel they`ve really got the U.S. under its thumb, to the nuclear issue. They will want concessions on the nuclear issue in return for the U.S. -- in return for them doing something to help us in Iraq.

Now, I doubt that will go over, but I think that`s going to be the real show when it happens.

GWEN IFILL: And let me try another idea. Just before the meeting began today, apparently Nouri al-Maliki came in. He made a little statement about leaving the impression that Iraq would not be used as a launching point for any attacks presumably by the United States on Iran. Is that a significant starting-off point? Does that clear some distrusts in the room?

PETER RODMAN: Well, I`m willing to test this. We had this meeting. Ryan Crocker, who`s a good professional, did not, as far as I can see, commit to another meeting. And yet, in his presentation there, he laid out some of the concerns we have and some of the things that Iran is doing that we object to.

So I`m willing to see if there is a change in Iran`s behavior. We should take note of it. But as I say, I`m a skeptic here. I think Iran -- I think they think we asked for this meeting. They think we`re kind of desperate and need their help. And so I think they`re using this to strengthen their position in Iraq, and I don`t expect a whole lot.

GWEN IFILL: Translate something for us laypeople here. Why didn`t Ryan Crocker immediately embrace this notion of a second meeting after the Iraqis came out and said -- the Iranians came out and said, "Yes, we will meet again"?

PETER RODMAN: Well, the problem, as I said, is not about communication. The problem is Iran`s behavior. And Iran`s actions on the ground unfortunately contradict the reassuring things they said in the meeting.

I mean, when they talk about how they share our objective of a stable Iraq, they`re doing a lot of things that are destabilizing Iraq. If that were to change, we would notice it, and it would be significant. But as I said, the test is their actions rather than their words.

GWEN IFILL: Given what you know, Mr. Kupchan, about the way the political situation is in Iran, how likely is it that their behavior will change in a way that will go beyond just being able -- just agreeing to meet at a table?

CLIFF KUPCHAN: Well, I would agree with Peter in that I don`t think anything`s going to change soon. I don`t think we`re going to see...

GWEN IFILL: Soon meaning...

CLIFF KUPCHAN: The next few weeks, the next month. I don`t think we`re going to see a diminution of support for Shia militias; I don`t think we`re going to see them leaning hard on Muqtada al-Sadr to join the political process.

GWEN IFILL: Who interestingly resurfaced just before this meeting.

CLIFF KUPCHAN: He resurfaced. He`s playing both sides against the middle. It`s unclear what he`s up to.

I don`t think the Iranians are going to be very helpful any time soon. I do think that our best last chance -- and look, we`re facing, let`s be real clear. The two alternatives are binary. It is either a nuclear Iran or military action against Iran. Those are two pretty ugly choices.

So the main point here -- and I share Peter`s skepticism -- is, as opposed to 2003, when the U.S. had what I think is a legitimate offer from Iran, didn`t take it up, this has been a dance to the death for so long, now we finally have the two sides talking. We can`t be naive about it. I don`t think anything is going to happen quickly, but, finally, finally, diplomacy has a chance.

GWEN IFILL: What about this notion that we might be looking desperate?

CLIFF KUPCHAN: I think a confident superpower is a confident superpower, and a confident superpower can make an overture diplomatically, whenever it feels like it.

GWEN IFILL: And is that going to happen?

PETER RODMAN: Well, the Iranians have been spinning this as we needed their help, we are the supplicant. And that`s not a good atmosphere in which to have a discussion.

But, as I said, I don`t object to having this kind of a talk limited to Iraq, and it`s a test. It`s a way to see whether their behavior is going to imitate the words or reflect the words they`re speaking.

GWEN IFILL: I guess I`m just trying to figure out who gets to define what happens next? Is it the Iranians, who are interested in making it clear that they want another meeting, and they want people to think that we`re begging for one? Is it the United States, the confident world leader? Who gets to make the next step? Or who has to make the next step?

CLIFF KUPCHAN: Well, I think it`s up to the U.S. to respond, you know, in an approximate way to the Iranian offer. But as far as whether this goes anywhere or not, it`s going to be up to both. The Iranians have to take verifiable steps, and the U.S. really has to be more interested in finding a compromise of sorts than it is to regime change in Iran.

GWEN IFILL: And do the sanctions that the president talks about, the stepped-up sanctions, is that an essential part of that?

PETER RODMAN: Well, that`s about the nuclear diplomacy. I mean, this relates to Iraq. Cliff is right that there`s some connection, but I think, in Iraq, if there is a true convergence of interest, I think Iranian actions will tell us that. And I would be more delighted than anybody to see a change in Iran`s behavior in Iraq.

GWEN IFILL: Peter Rodman and Cliff Kupchan, thank you both very much.

PETER RODMAN: Thank you.

(BREAK)

JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, another topic on the U.S.-Iran agenda of the future. As we`ve been reporting, three Iranian-Americans are being held in Iran. Two are in the infamous Evin prison: Kian Tajbakhsh, a consultant for the Open Society Institute, a private democracy-promoting foundation established by financier George Soros; and Haleh Esfandiari, a Mideast scholar with the Woodrow Wilson Center. An Iranian-American journalist, Parnaz Azima, has been barred from leaving Iran since January.

We get an update now from Aryeh Neier, president of the Open Society Institute; and Shaul Bakash, a professor of history at George Mason University and husband of Haleh Esfandiari.

Gentlemen, thank you for being with us. Mr. Neier, let me begin with you. What was Kian Tajbakhsh doing in Iran?

ARYEH NEIER, Open Society Institute: The Iranian government had, over a period of time, asked us for help in dealing with a number of problems that they have. We don`t only promote democracy. We also provide assistance on public health programs and humanitarian programs in all parts of the world. And we did that in Iran.

A former ambassador to the U.N. for Iran, Ambassador Husseini, asked me for help in dealing with Iran`s terrible problem of intravenous drug use. They have one of the worst problems in the world. And we provided specialists, experts to go to Iran to help them in dealing with that problem.

And we needed somebody on the ground in Iran who would oversee the implementation of programs that we had. And so a scholar and expert in urban public policies such as Kian Tajbakhsh was the kind of person who could do that sort of work for us. And so we made an arrangement with him that he would be the person in Iran overseeing the implementation of the few projects that we`re able to conduct there.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So working as a consultant for you...

ARYEH NEIER: Working as a consultant, and dealing with public health, and humanitarian, and cultural programs.

JUDY WOODRUFF: When was he taken into custody? And what happened?

ARYEH NEIER: Well, as far as I know, he was taken into custody on May 11. We didn`t find out about it right away. And I`m not quite sure what is happening to him in custody, because we can`t communicate with him. And so far as I know, he is not represented by counsel.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, he`s been able to get some phone calls out to his wife who`s in Iran?

ARYEH NEIER: Right, but she`s not eager to communicate with others. I think she is concerned not to make his situation worse, and so we have only fragmentary information on his situation in Iran.

JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, Professor Bakash, your wife, Haleh Esfandiari, couldn`t leave Iran since December, has been in prison since earlier in May. What`s the latest on her condition?

SHAUL BAKASH, George Mason University: Well, as in the previous case, we have no information about her condition in prison. The only thing she`s allowed is a very brief telephone call, usually lasting under a minute, to her mother in Tehran, in which she can ask after the health of her grandchildren and say she`s OK. But we feel there`s a minder standing right next to her.

So we have no idea as to her condition, and they have denied access to the family. They`ve denied access to the lawyers.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you hear anything through third channels?

SHAUL BAKASH: No, so we do not know how she`s being treated in prison. And this is a prison which is notorious for its interrogation methods.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Has she been charged with something?

SHAUL BAKASH: She hasn`t been officially charged with anything, but a statement by the Ministry of Intelligence last Monday implicates the Wilson Center, where she works, in this fantastical plot, so to speak, to advance a velvet or what the Iranians call a "soft revolution" in Iran.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Changing the minds of the Iranian people?

SHAUL BAKASH: Well, so to speak. But this is -- sorry -- yes, it is criminalizing scholarly activity. This is saying, holding conferences and inviting people to give talks somehow is nefarious activity.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Mr. Neier, has Mr. Tajbakhsh been charged?

ARYEH NEIER: So far as I know, he has not been officially charged. Iranian authorities have even denied knowing about him. But, of course, Iranian newspapers have published lengthy stories denouncing him and creating the impression of a conspiracy. So there may be charges, some vague general charges of undermining national security or something of that sort, but there`s nothing official that we know of.

JUDY WOODRUFF: What is your sense that the Iranians are up to here?

ARYEH NEIER: I don`t know what the Iranians are up to. I don`t know if they`re trying to hold people in order to make an exchange for the Iranians who are being held in Iraq. I don`t know if there is some internal power struggle, and one faction is using this for its advantage. I don`t know if it plays into the elections next year.

There are all kinds of speculations, but I don`t have any way of figuring out which is right or whether any of them are right.

JUDY WOODRUFF: What`s this, Professor Bakash, about exchanging for prisoners being held in Iraq?

SHAUL BAKASH: Well, I don`t think that this has ever been officially stated, but as Aryeh Neier says, we don`t know. They don`t talk to us. There`s no communication between the families of these detainees and the Iranian authorities. And they use the press to make vague and unsubstantiated accusations against my wife and others, so we`re left totally in the dark as to what this is about.

And I think, you know, since we don`t really quite understand the way these people in the Ministry of Intelligence think at all -- I don`t think they think like you and I -- it`s very difficult to figure out what they have in mind.

JUDY WOODRUFF: You said a minute ago, you mentioned -- you used the term "soft" or "velvet revolution," and I asked you about changing the minds of the Iranian people about their own government. I mean, can you see any connection here between what your wife was doing and others are doing with...

SHAUL BAKASH: I don`t see a connection in, at least, a sense normal people would see a connection, because, after all, the Iranian government itself holds conferences to which it invites scholars from the U.S., from European and other countries. There are exchanges at scientific conferences.

And it would be absurd to suggest that the Iranians are holding these conferences to bring about a revolution in the United States or in Germany or in France. And that`s really what they`re trying to say, and it doesn`t make any logical sense to anybody who thinks clearly.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Mr. Neier, you were saying that Mr. Tajbakhsh`s wife in Iran doesn`t want much publicity. How did you make the decision to be public, to do this interview?

ARYEH NEIER: Well, we didn`t make the decision ourselves. Journalists, Western journalists found out about Kian Tajbakhsh, and they published the information. And, of course, once they published the information, we don`t want to deny an association with him.

We don`t know whether it`s better to make the information public or to try and soft-pedal this and keep entirely quiet about it, but we really didn`t have a choice. We were forced to go public on the matter.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Professor Bakash, you and, of course, as the husband of Haleh Esfandiari, the Woodrow Wilson Center we`ve had on this program, the leadership of the Wilson Center, you`ve chosen to be more public. Do you have a worry about what`s the right way to handle this?

SHAUL BAKASH: Well, I think it`s the natural reaction of families and employers in these kinds of situations to try and resolve these issues quietly and through private probing, because of the atmosphere of fear such governments create.

And, again, we didn`t choose to go public. Haleh was taken to Evin prison. The story leaked, and we felt, once she was taken to prison, we had no choice but to make public statements. But I now believe that one should speak publicly and one should say what one thinks, which is that these allegations against my wife and others are without foundation. They`re false.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Mr. Neier, just quickly, next, you look for word from whom on this?

ARYEH NEIER: Well, we look for word from the Iranian government; we`re not likely to get much from them. But we would hope that scholars who are trying to come to the help of their colleagues will get some kind of response.

We hope some friendly governments will be able to exercise some influence. Now that it`s public, we`d like as many people as possible to join in the effort to try to free Haleh, to free Kian, and to make sure that this comes to an end without any harm coming to them or further harm.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we appreciate both of your talking to us, Aryeh Neier and Professor Shaul Bakash. And we certainly wish safety for both of these individuals we`ve been discussing.

SHAUL BAKASH: Thank you.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Thank you very much.

ARYEH NEIER: Thank you.

(BREAK)

JUDY WOODRUFF: And now, the fight over extending a government health insurance program for children. Susan Dentzer of our Health Unit has the story. The unit is a partnership with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

CLASS (singing): Red, yellow, black and white...

SUSAN DENTZER, NewsHour Health Correspondent: At this recent gathering at a Kansas City Church, the focus was on kids.

REV. RAYFIELD BURNS, Metropolitan Missionary Baptist Church: It is our shared vision that all children will have the access to quality, affordable health care.

SUSAN DENTZER: Baptist Minister Rayfield Burns gave the opening meditation before an audience of concerned citizens and advocates for children`s health.

REV. RAYFIELD BURNS: How can we refuse not to put our arms around them and be a blessing for them?

SUSAN DENTZER: Similar events are taking place across the country under the auspices of groups like the PICO National Network, a faith-based organization.

REV. KIM ROSS, One Spirit Methodist Church: Cover all children. Bless all children.

SUSAN DENTZER: This one at the city`s Metropolitan Missionary Baptist Church was part of an interfaith move to press for health insurance for all of America`s kids. Methodist Minister Kim Ross gave the political call to action, urging steps at the federal level on the State Children`s Health Insurance Program, or SCHIP.

REV. KIM ROSS: Congress still needs to quickly reauthorize SCHIP. And here in Missouri, our elected officials need to put our state back on track, back on track to covering all children.

(APPLAUSE)

SUSAN DENTZER: The push to frame kids` coverage as a moral issue comes at a critical time. Here in Washington, Congress will soon begin debating whether and how to extend SCHIP, the joint federal and state health insurance program for children. Enacted 10 years ago, the program will expire unless Congress renews if by September 30th.

That prospect has sparked a broader debate over expanding publicly funded health insurance, like SCHIP, as one means of providing health coverage for all Americans.

Democratic Senator Max Baucus of Montana heads the Senate Finance Committee.

SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), Montana: My view is that, fundamentally in our country, we have to find ways to create health insurance coverage. We`re the only country in the industrialized world that does not have uniform coverage. I think the Children`s Health Insurance Program is another step to move toward universal coverage.

SUSAN DENTZER: That`s what worries the Bush administration, says Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt.

MIKE LEAVITT, Health and Human Services Secretary: There are many who would like to use the Children`s Health Insurance Plan to be the engine that pulls the train of universal federal insurance. People don`t want Washington running health care. They do aspire, all of us aspire to have every American with access to a basic insurance policy at an affordable rate.

DOCTOR: I`m going to lift something behind you, OK?

SUSAN DENTZER: The outcome of this debate could have a major impact on the SCHIP programs in Missouri and other states.

DOCTOR: Can I look in this ear?

SUSAN DENTZER: Like Medicaid, the program covers 28 million poor children, SCHIP is a partnership between the states and the federal government. It covers kids whose parents are not poor but have low to moderate incomes. Six million children are now enrolled.

That means that, all together, Medicaid and SCHIP now cover 45 percent of America`s children. One is 3-year-old Christopher Bell. He and his mother, Ebony, came to Children`s Mercy Hospital in Kansas City recently for treatment of his asthma.

DOCTOR: Work on it. Put this over your head.

SUSAN DENTZER: Christopher`s is just the sort of family Congress set out to help with SCHIP.

DOCTOR: You`re doing so good.

EBONY BELL, Mother of Christopher Bell: Come on, baby, go with Mama. Come on.

SUSAN DENTZER: Ebony Bell works as a paraprofessional at a Kansas City public school and earns just over $10 an hour in her 30-hour-per-week job.

EBONY BELL: Here, you do it.

SUSAN DENTZER: Christopher Bell was previously covered by Medicaid, but since Ebony got a recent raise, her income is too high for him to qualify. But for $15 a month in premiums, Bell recently learned she can buy coverage for her son in SCHIP. Bell says she`s grateful, because, without the coverage, Chris` asthma medicine could cost almost $200 a month.

EBONY BELL: Be good, you hear me?

They say no child should be left behind for school; then, no child should be left behind for health care. All of them should be covered.

SUSAN DENTZER: For the first decade of the SCHIP program, Congress appropriated $40 billion and offered it for states at attractive terms. Both Medicaid and SCHIP require state contributions, but the states have to put up less to get SCHIP dollars from the feds. Beth griffin is executive director of the advocacy groups Citizens for Missouri`s Children.

BETH GRIFFIN, Citizens for Missouri`s Children: In the late `90s, we had about 12 percent of our children uninsured. And with the implementation of SCHIP, that number went down to 6 percent, so it was a big success.

SUSAN DENTZER: Missouri took advantage of an SCHIP option that allow states to cover families with incomes up to three times the federal poverty level. Steve Renne is the state official who oversees Missouri`s SCHIP program.

STEVE RENNE, Missouri Department of Social Services: We are pretty generous in the income level that we go to, and I think that is reflective of the general support for trying to make health insurance available for children.

SUSAN DENTZER: Missouri families earning up to about $62,000 a year for a family of four can buy SCHIP coverage, usually at premiums far below what they pay for private insurance.

One family whose gotten coverage is that of Marisa Chavez, a Kansas City single working mom with three kids. Chavez`s 12-year-old daughter, Michelle, was recently diagnosed with a mental health condition, and she`s been treated here at Children`s Mercy Hospital in Kansas City.

Chavez, a medical technician, had private health insurance at her previous hospital job, but she switched to a new position at higher pay. She now makes $41,000 a year but says she can`t afford her new company`s private health insurance. Now, the fact she`ll pay just $180 a month in premiums for SCHIP coverage is a godsend.

MARISA CHAVEZ, Mother of Michelle Chavez: I don`t even have money to save for my children`s education, so when there`s something like this out there to help you out, it`s a relief.

DOCTOR: And did they give you two inhalers?

SUSAN DENTZER: Studies show coverage under Medicaid and SCHIP improved kids` health. One clear result is fewer asthma-related attacks for kids like Shatavia Thomas (ph). Along with her mother, Cassandra, the toddler came to Kansas City`s Samuel U. Rogers Health Clinic recently for a checkup.

MARISA CHAVEZ: At night, sometimes she`ll just be sleeping, and she`ll try to take her breath, and she`ll stop. And it scares me, because I don`t know if it`s because of just normal things babies do or if it`s because of the asthma.

SUSAN DENTZER: Clinic doctor Padma Krishna (ph) put Shatavia (ph) on a so-called asthma action plan. It`s aimed at minimizing attacks and costly trips to hospital emergency rooms.

DOCTOR: It needs to be in this zone. It`s called green zone.

SUSAN DENTZER: But about 120,000 Missouri kids are still uninsured, and nationally an estimated two million more kids are eligible for SCHIP but not enrolled. One key reason is the program has run chronically sort of money; that issue is now at the heard of the SCHIP debate in Washington.

The Bush administration has proposed spending $34 billion on SCHIP over the next five years, an amount it says will accommodate all kids now on the program. But Democrats and some Republicans say as much as $75 billion will be needed, not only to cover kids now on SCHIP, but also to get all eligible children enrolled.

SEN. MAX BAUCUS: I`m chagrined and even astounded at the administration`s suggestion that we cut back on coverage for kids.

SUSAN DENTZER: Baucus says the $75 billion is needed not only to cover kids now on the program, but also to get all kids eligible for SCHIP enrolled. Also at issue is future eligibility for SCHIP and whether to keep the program focused on low-income kids or expand it higher up the income scale.

For example, the Bush administration wants to limit coverage to families at twice the federal poverty level, or $41,300 for a family of four.

MICHAEL LEAVITT: We want to reauthorize it. We want to focus it where it was intended, and that is for children in low income.

SUSAN DENTZER: But that could mean Missouri would have to scrap its coverage of somewhat better-off families.

BETH GRIFFIN: The president`s proposal doesn`t go far enough, and it will cause Missouri to cut back, I`m afraid, on coverage for kids.

SUSAN DENTZER: By contrast, some bipartisan congressional proposals would actually expand eligibility further, to families earning up to $82,600 for a family of four. The Bush administration says that could contribute to further shrinkage of private health coverage. It points to a new Congressional Budget Office study that says that, for every 10 kids who`ve gone on SCHIP, up to five have lost private insurance.

MIKE LEAVITT: One thing we know is that, when you put people on government programs, that those who are on private insurance diminishes.

SEN. MAX BAUCUS: I`m just very, very nervous about the administration`s efforts to try to tilt the balance more in favor of private at the expense of public. There`s got to be a balance.

SUSAN DENTZER: Back at Metropolitan Missionary Baptist, religious leaders said their goal was simply to make certain that all kids got health coverage, public or private, and soon.

RELIGIOUS LEADER: Now, you older people tell me, which one of these children shouldn`t have health care? Cover all the children; they`re all God`s children.

SUSAN DENTZER: The House and Senate are expected to begin work on SCHIP legislation next month.

(BREAK)

JUDY WOODRUFF: Finally this Memorial Day, "Where Valor Rests," that`s the title of a new book about Arlington National Cemetery, as chronicled by a group of professional photographers, both civilian and military. Recently, we talked with some of the book`s contributors.

RICK ATKINSON, Journalist and Author: Arlington is one of those places in America that means something to everyone who comes here. You have, any time of the year, any day of the year, a mixture of the living and dead mingling with one another.

I`m Rick Atkinson. I`m an author, and I wrote the forward to "Where Valor Rests."

This has long been a liminal place, a threshold where the living meet the dead and where national history is intertwined with personal loss. Yet Arlington also is a shrine to valor and sacrifice, to service and fidelity.

Those interred here tell a story, not just of the republic in war and in peace, but also of a transcendent ideal, conceived in liberty and re- consecrated in every new grave dug, every benediction murmured, every commitment into the hollowed ground. In this city of the dead, it is an ideal that lives on.

BRUCE DALE, Photographer: I`ve never been here, whether bright sunlight, morning, noon, night, rain, or snow, and it always has kind of a special quality. My name is Bruce Dale. I was invited to be a contributing photographer for this book.

You`re showing permanence. You`re showing both beauty and sadness at the same time, and I think that`s what this place means to me. I used one of my specially modified cameras that captures images by light that`s totally invisible to the human eye. It produces a black-and-white image that has sort of an ethereal look. It sort of -- it glows a little bit. It turns chlorophyll white and skies almost black. And to me, it sort of gave a ghostly look that I thought kind of was appropriate to use in an area like this, with all the souls that are departed.

One of my favorite pictures, a picture that`s on the far left, you see the Washington Monument, and then, if you look down near middle foreground, you see a caisson and the horses, and the honor guard is over there. And as it swings around to the right, there`s the Pentagon, and then it seems to be a sea, like just an ocean of tombstones, that seem to go onto infinity.

And on the far right, as luck would have it, by total serendipity, somebody wandered into the scene, and I talked to him later. He stopped to visit his parents who were buried there.

RICK ATKINSON: What you find is that, in a time of war, as we are now, Arlington has a certain accent to it.

Today, it can mean a great deal because there are more then 300 dead from Iraq and Afghanistan buried here. I described Section 60, where they`re buried, as the saddest acre in America.

You know, you find, again, whether you`re for the war, against the war, or indifferent about the war, you cannot visit Section 60 and come away unmoved. It`s a powerful place. It`s a place where young men and women have died before their time.

TECH. SGT. STACI MCKEE, U.S. Air Force: My name is Staci McKee, and I`m in the Air Force Reserves. When people go over to Section 60, where everybody is buried from Iraq and Afghanistan, I think it hits home. I think a lot of people can become very detached from what`s going on overseas.

But when you come here, the magnitude of the sacrifice that these people are making, if that doesn`t strike you, then, you know, nothing will, because you can`t help -- you can`t help but be touched by that.

The woman`s name is Captain Lisa Doran. And I had heard that she had been in Iraq with her husband when he died. Both of them are captains, and he was a helicopter pilot. He had a ticket to go home ahead of her and had elected to stay in Iraq, because she was still there serving her time out.

I had a really hard time at that funeral. And I just -- I was really torn, because I felt, as a photographer, "I need to shoot this." As a member of the military, I was almost feeling like, "I shouldn`t be shooting this."

I had to, you know, stop a couple times, because I was getting a little teary-eyed, too. But, you know, she did say that it was OK for me to be there, so, you know, I opted for just pressing ahead as a shooter and capturing that moment. And it was really, really important to both her and I at the end of it.

RICK ATKINSON: Everything about Arlington is infused with ritual. The ritual often surrounds the interment, which is usually overseen by military honor guard, the 3rd Infantry Regiment known as the "Old Guard." Honor is paramount, and they`re thinking about how to inter a solider, whether it`s a 90-year-old, retired World War II veteran or a 20-year-old who`s been killed in Ramadi or Bagram.

CHIEF PETTY OFFICER JOHNNY BIVERA, U.S. Navy: I`m Johnny Bivera. I`m a recently retired Navy chief petty officer.

The old guard at the stables was a nice challenge, because it was one where, you know, action didn`t happen in front of the cemetery. It was all happening prior to what happens after an event.

What I wanted to show was, you know, what did these guys do? What did it take for them to get themselves ready, get their horses ready, how much work it was going to be, how much work it takes them to make that moment happen?

This time last year, approximately a year ago at the same time, I was here photographing what`s in this book and what`s going on behind me right now. All the servicemembers from all the services come out here on this one afternoon to honor their brethren and plant an American flag in front of the gravestone.

So it means a lot to me now that I had experienced, you know, what these guys do to honor their shipmates, and their soldiers, and their friends, and probably their relatives that are buried here.

LT. COL. MIKE EDRINGTON, U.S. Army: My name`s Lieutenant Colonel Mike Edrington. I`m an Army lieutenant colonel. And I was actually recalled from retirement to direct this project on behalf of Arlington National Cemetery and the Army.

I also shot about 30 pictures in the book, but the one most poignant that kept me going was the Letendre funeral. It was a captain, Brian Letendre, Marine, killed over in Iraq. And his wife, Autumn, and his son, Dillon, attended the funeral with a lot of other Marines and their family.

And it was a rainy day. And he`s sitting there next to his mother, and his uncle is actually the Marine corporal presenting the flag to him, and the little boy looking up and not really knowing what`s going on. And then the second picture that appears in the book is Dillon holding the flag, and the flag is almost bigger than him.

And I literally had about everything I could do to keep it together, because, as a soldier, I know what it -- and while I`ve never lost anybody, I know what it means and know people and have photographed so many funerals here. And it was just hard. It was just hard.

RICK ATKINSON: When the nation is at war, Arlington becomes a place to which our heads swivel. We see photos, not of the caskets coming back to Dover Air Force Base, but we see the caskets being buried here. It becomes a symbol, an emblem of the price that we`re paying, whether it`s this war or any other war.

JUDY WOODRUFF: A commemorative version of "Where Valor Rests" will be given to the families of active-duty personnel killed since 9/11 and buried at Arlington. A commercial version of the volume is also available. Proceeds from the sale of that book will fund updates in the future.

(BREAK)

JUDY WOODRUFF: We close this Memorial Day with our honor roll of American service personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. We add them as their deaths are made official and photographs become available. Here, in silence, are 15 more.

We`ll see you online and again here tomorrow evening. I`m Judy Woodruff. Thank you, and good night.