The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; Energy Special Carter Energy Plan (Reel II of II)

conservation corps one other such things or resources before we find that there is no moral there is no more gas and we're in a real facts we won't be doing a recovery operation clearly what we see almost for it is the one thing that we need not to say in which we can say is this the energy policy unfolds if we gave we if we accept that it's critical for the nation's future perhaps the most critical thing that the present one to take over the next four years and the one thing we cannot have his governors or regions deciding at the very beginning they got to go back to where they were either twenty year or two or seventy years ago fighting each other to see signs of an eye sees her id signs of that now for

example tom takes the strip mining village on the townsend mentioned it's very important that coal in the east and the west be treated as equitably as possible to be as much parity as possible west virginia's can do very well all that i want what you do very well but if the policy is to work nationally then i have to be ready to accept that in the strip mining bill which is going to be passed the federal level that the western states will be given some in fact preferred treatment which they are i accept that i think that his proper because their problems out there are different from mine in west virginia for arson appalachian the governors are going to have to work together that to pull back our up competitors as much as possible to help the president's eldest pulse of the people is not just a political doctrine this is a national call the governor's of the other people that can help sell to the people and we can argue and we started already and on the line in colorado do you are you willing to do to bear your share of this

burden or as colorado to jealous of protecting its environment to work to see some rapid development of its energy resources i very clearly we're willing to share our national bird and i think that's an important message we're more than willing i think the problem comes in all these areas in defining fairness is like taxes the fair tax as the one that everybody else is called eighties and i began to see and it's a regional divisiveness that you mention that everybody is going to be a defining fairness says you know we're not we're suffering an undue burden but i think in colorado for instance we rely in the westerner i cannot marry a much more on the automobile in there the average data per capita consumption of gasoline ergo week we take from that that a habit of fairness well might be a different interpretation and while some other section of the country but i think what governor rockefeller has said is very important as well and i have to try desperately to minimize their regional differences and the west i can assure you is willing the produce more of the energy that we have in fact we are more than willing all we have to do is to try

to make sure that in certain important areas impact burton are other areas that we get our needs met but once met we're willing and we are a storehouse a lot of additional national energy governor johnson you're seeing or feel regional differences developing or strengthening becoming were survivors of a regional difference is there's no doubt about that for example if there's a heavy burden placed on the motorist through a gas tax perhaps all the way through rationing and to the states whose economies are created based on tourism for example the state of florida what happens if you can't take your annual allocation court about running around there sports economists concerned so be jealous curator your concerns on on the strip mining bill we're not asking for a treatment not asking for economic gain or asking who is that below illinois happens they're the toughest strip mining on the nation's leaders from illinois

is not where the western states we don't want a federal strip mining bill that says that we have to strip mine in illinois just north of the district line in wyoming montana we want the choice in illinois between putting back at all that was there before creating a lake used for recreation the trouble with federal money act now as it seeks to impose conformity on every state militias that ones that we don't need and i'm pleased that the president carter's energy advisors to the input of the governors and she was weak and they continue on that basis the union wants more thank you gentlemen we want to come back and go into questions of colon strip mining and other questions conservation in more detail but before we go on let's hear what some ordinary voters think people actually have to carry the burden of higher fuel costs and the other disciplines mr goddard feels are necessary several hundred people in the town of watertown massachusetts a suburb of boston have been attending a town meeting with governor dukakis and listen to the president with us reporter steve nervous of public television station wgbh in boston is with the state

what was really important and many of the people a legal boundary you might think you were in any of their labor and what we're doing then in the early nineteenth century factories were built here to make use of water power to one day old and walk in the group all with an investor workers move on the look and land and watertown and remained an industrial in a residential community of ours for the more than thirty five thousand people in watertown that the population just a handful of days when the army a few years ago apple enormous how are you and the

unemployment rate of seven percent is higher than in the rest of the state with me or to people who came to me and i liked her first family portrait we've been in commercial and industrial construction where construction company the report in fourth quarter they are carrying out this big play is it really about and what we need in the market and actually am i couldn't really going to go for a four leaf large format his battered industry employs bialy i will come back into the moment after the medical technician at are you willing to accept that president carter said that were in serious trouble i think that where you'd to

act that the ten point advantage in our army and i think you can find them and who are they then are you willing those cones actually is connected who are the concern kind of like preaching to the converted i think you know i think overnight it we do have a big energy problem and i hope that this becomes a national preoccupation because it deserves our attention and i think just on a national level and on an individual level i agree on a percent and i hope that that something is going on in every level that we can't tell you all the eye and lions franchise in the courts we think it makes sense to

use this issue about what the president said the night is officially balance and justice surprised that it's taken so long for this to come into effect as you recall back some three or four years ago when we have your banjo and we have the long lines and the closer the stations ladies and so a guy that everybody was screaming and new exploration and a thing about investigating our show us over and we're looking at their service stations with a few cents a gallon gasoline and i'm just surprised that we haven't taken some government action before now who is the general manager at all that we import which is self explanatory is also associated with a dealership in watertown are you willing to accept

the premise that we ought to do it i think that it's been a long time that they have an energy problem i think if we look back and seventy five baffling in the automobile population that would love the time we had been carried out the character of occasions when you're watching kind of you know i think people emilia gonna look at the alternative rock they didn't have any money and what happened what happened a lot of the public for the third about might be true to president in an increase in need they'll import bill and a little slowed down and with a big it got a lot of

people waking up tonight for the really see what the final outcome was going to be and the people i'll give it a lot more serious thought that you think you can continue to function properly up in the economy and gas prices should go up to fifty cents a gallon over five years again going back to be a years of the embargo being an interstate holler via interstate commerce commission didn't allow us to increase via tariff rates for the people that we were i'm only but what they did is they allow us to put a six percent to check on to the protagonist of the year of the shipper and so it ended up that the consuming public had to pay for it anyways i would like to hope that the arab press and the

congress would address themselves to this situation where by increasing all of these taxes we would cells involve a higher inflation and therefore it all ends up liverpool consumer pay i just hope that something has looked into before they make anything happen to work every day and you feel it this is officially balance for you afford to me i am i have to admit i'm not one of the more economical consumers as far as energy was good turnout was thinking earlier this evening i live a bomb on a half away from here like streets and on the wane but i drove i jumped in my car i'd never really get much of a fight i think that's fairly typical i don't i don't do too much thinking about the women got my car why on this there is a really readily available easy to take one

system of public transportation available although we have a very good day i think public transportation department construction and design of conservatives very tuned into it i don't have a habit of using hit something's gotta happen neither in my own mind or or outside somehow that some kind of outside influences too persuade me and to get me into the habit of using public transportation were using my car for a mile or two trips that i could easily walk do you when you're in your daily life they go over he's been pushed the ecologically conscious but there were the promenade an

entre by having a need that nudge that the increase in the pac and i'm going to give it do you think that this is going to have an impact one where another on the industry which are legally part of the country is considered to be bankrupt bankrupt but but initially situation is the one with the wide i can see where it's going to make very much difference i think that we have to work and of ourselves we have to make our own decisions how much that we're going to use common among swing on a dry thoughtful elite eleven was it's like you like you very much but the president says the cornerstone of his energy plan is conservation says we americans are the most wasteful energy users in the world and he's right for an idea of how much waste will have to look at a few representative asked him american industry consumes an equivalent of ten million barrels

of oil and a five million of that is wasted and our homes we consume five point three million barrels losing or wasting three point to make a big as loser percentage wise is the automobile four point eight million barrels used four point two million of its waste the question of course is whether or not the president has come up with a way cut this ways now to get everyone to conserve energy that say what the governor's night governor thompson what he really what people have to take a year or so to find out the program for what it is feasible for conversion to less wasteful futile fuels is feasible for tax incentives for conserving is feasible the biggest test is going to try and get them are considered but the use of gasoline ten percent that's a whopping the border maybe the place where the president falls down i think we have to do it the question is whether taxes is the fairway or whether some other system like allocation rations the first way i would hate to see the price of gas and nurses and so on in which people could

draw maybe that will decide after several years of experimentation with gasoline taxes that we americans are so ingrained in our guest driving habits that they're only allocation put on a lot of problems but i'd rather see that than it lasts it lamb colorado what you think of the president's basic thrust and conservation work if i think about i think the big question is is whether congress is willing or perhaps any politicians are willing to bite the bullet because any meaningful program in this area after her and that's one thing that we will try to avoid the things that hurt and the question is i'm intrigued you see the various public reactions to that is is the public really willing are they up with the president in terms of the necessity because how we define the solutions depends upon how we define the problem i think the president is to find a problem is the most serious and grave this country in a lot of years and i think that we can do it and i think those programs will do it if they can put a quick pass which i have some substantial question about

conservation over there at all but maybe a minute cup of observations long be the attitude of the five or six massachusetts citizens just interviewed is classic there's nothing unpopular that will not run for president on this concern myself were the consequences three years and now there's nothing tough on harsh or severe in this program the average american will biden new york seconds of relief that he's on a panacea for all of his ales this is not going to quit using in your salinity an awful lot and also conservation i think that clearly we have a great opportunity in a great need to conserve what americans can and serve very easily without having to sacrifice because we're such a wasteful users of energy but business of talk about conserving five million barrels of water they are keep government issued because it's out of step with reality we just don't have that kind of possibility of consolation without seriously

affecting the economics of our country but the second point is the president made a statement that he wants more competition in the energy business but his whole problem is going to do just exactly the opposite no sane human being with money to spend to get into the energy production but is it this time all within the existing company expand existing facilities the future is to insert and the last thing i want you on my friends with this album is not about a point a finger blaming me for balkanization of a sexual is unlawful parochialism that's the last thing is going to be legitimately set of us we're going to let the rest of the country to take the lead in the land was really says poland shale are we would use our governor thompson author uses call with our producer now as governor dukakis really means he wants all showed about a mud house in the parade so then to three days and started getting him some modern get any governor from west virginia was produced a tremendous quantities of coal which is so badly needed by this country

i bet you remember years from now when you right over this unless somebody is willing to come to grips with the environmentalists in this country you not the nebula produced another four hundred million tons of coal they're gonna stop at every turn of the road just like you know baby i'm a development someone you can apply and we need of course the beautiful arguable for these governors which you cannot do it in keeping with the regulations and rules for clean air standards and strip mining requirements and regulations and i think both governor rockefeller and on the bossa nova we're going to talk about coleman abound determined to continue talking about conservation for a moment governor dukakis said governor edward says he's willing to follow the leader of the rest of you what would you how would you lead we see an unrest of the nation on conservation the pair of tripoli are the real enterprises factory uses much as forty fifty sixty percent and it hasn't

really been the drastic change it's been doing things that we've been fortunate though all over the country as well as in this region for year what we discovered is that there is enormous waste and they don't have to drastically change lifestyle to make savings of error so what we've done up iran necessity of sky high prices because of our dependence on much imported oil can be done all over the country and it achievable it can be done and doing some other things so i would suggest to them is really quite doable but i can say the new mass quantities we don't straighten that appearance would be happy to show you enter an apartment country has come through rockefeller you're an edward leamer dukakis billy room conservation they're both fine gentleman but did i think that the goal of more with governor dukakis on that it's not a question of whether we we think we can save it you know we got to we actually have to say that conservation is the possibility of american people aren't up to where do we accept that attitude that says simply flying in the face of the test it would say that we're gonna run out of major

source of energy before we have a chance to repeal the law it would open so we're going to be losing jobs conservation equals the protection of jobs in our factories over the next fifteen or twenty years we gonna do about that when the president talks about major utility reform that is reversing the rate structure so that people pay more as they use more that is a major new steps something that i would've liked using done west virginia but it is at a major new step if he can do that armed men get utilities to go along with that and i think they might then he has created a real time for conservation we're going to happen till i don't think that people are not going to stop buying big cars i don't they couldn't stop buying big cars until they're told that they can they're not big cars available you don't think the gas guzzler taxes can have any impact at all if they have no i don't i think that people who want to buy big cars and by big cars don't think they're going to have substantially a continue to do so i think of the stand by tax on gasoline comes into effect and abilene will within the years as i read the

speech very standby is it well it's about iraq as what it says and i don't think that is going to keep american people the room johnson's point that he seriously doubted whether some of those conservation measures would actually get through congress politically were given that there are other chances politically not whether the public will accept them but when politicians can wear them i'm inclined not to agree with so i think there's a tendency to look at this as just another one of the series of things which presidents over the years and brought to the nation's attention i don't think that this is to be perceived that way i don't think it can be treated that way i think this is a major battleground for the president and his administration and on and i think you need to see it through there for i believe that the leadership of the house will do all it can to get all this package through the summer to the fall by the wayside but i don't think you're going to find a great deal of political loesser great deal of his package and not pass in fact it's an extraordinary things and that one thing that fascinates me and conservation is the president backed off and fifty dollar rebate and yet as i

listen to the figures in the india tax credit to a weather rising old homes and industry people of homes can get two hundred dollars out of this in fact that will get two hundred dollars as a rebate as a credit against their attacks if they do it and whether it so this is a major thing do you think there are very clear about what we're up on the son was then i'm all for conservation i think it's a great thing and we can and must save the use of energy by conservation measures but there's nothing severe a politically unpopular in this package on felony then you are the congress of the united states can buy these proposals even an american people would accept the point i'm making is that this is a good concept of conservation and i'm all for it but it's not all that radical movement lot of them are really great sacrifice on the part of american people know the very limiting governor and lifestyles in the next twelve months as a result of this from governor when you're shaking your head the whole time talking

wise it seemed to be a given that we define the problem are shortages due to inadequate supplies or they do to excessive demands and i think that we have a difference in i think that how we weigh these relatively and i think that i feel very strongly that they question is too much demand that doesn't mean we can should and produce more we're going to have to produce more but the fact is is that we've seen a very essential change in the definition of the problem here the last monday and wednesday and i believe that that definition of who the president defines it for the first time in a very public broadway is not a is an adequate supply that actually an excessive a man and i think that the difference between those two were very significant obama leads to some very significant changes in how we how we come up with the program we're gonna thousand cyclist in your state illinois on the people of all by the way you do you think they're going to respond in a positive way say to a specific like the gas guzzler to actually tax rebate incentive for insulate in their homes i think they'll respond to most of the president's program i think the

program will have the most difficulty in congress in public in terms of attacks on the person next to gasoline because i agree with the rocky mountains and in climate change their habits and that's why i hope the congress moves with great swiftness and the other part will divert some of our oil from eating uses on the production of energy saving the oil for gasoline which will be the last feature of oil go well governor gul what about governor edwards' point that this really doesn't hurt that it said proved retirement this is a politically an acceptable flying in the service of the no problem getting on there's going to be one whale of a fight in congress i can bring that edwards on that i do agree with him that you cannot on one hand enforce all environmental regulations that we now have the environmentalists are saying countries call a nuclear energy at the rate the president's talking about the two were inconsistent we found through the years

the eu states which are forcing the lead in the production nuclear energy like illinois or trying to increase a co production and increase their economy and their jobs force just running to enroll more objections open courtney barnett was not addressed the balance and i think there can be but let's not let anybody say it's going to be easy to please mr moss on one hand the president on iraq one thing i think we ought to keep our minds on this is that there is no huge time crush that the president given us we're all talking as though this all has to be in effect by the week after next or else we failed as a nation is very specifically throughout his entire speech all those programs created substantial time for adjustment whether it's the matter of conversion from oil and gas to call whether it's a matter of these sliding scale for the use of cars use costly trying to seek ways not not the whole thing on the american person all at once of the american industry but to do it slowly and

gradually so that through leadership people come to accept that this is a good thing if you're trying to the whole thing and the next year then i think it's failed now the bill does have to be passed shortly but this time element is building too and i think those were wise and his part i think it'll help pass the bill in the gunner edwards yes the two examine just very briefly i mean we're talking about a gas tax without which is one of the most unpopular things that i think in this state and then with a rocky mount airy and i think suspect nationwide do we fix that second of all on the gas guzzler somebody on our local television here last night said he'd rather changes president that it changed because these rights third were talking about an immediate increase in the price of oil and natural gas which is going to have large significant impact economic impact i think to say that this program will not hurt as simply a mistake so that would it's mime artist that spend time right now in the next twenty four hours the white

house will be received but telegrams and telephones all the nafta foreign services will be pulling the american people are not be willing to bet that at least seventy five percent of the american people by this roman darcy and ask the congress to pass it because they think it's a real ants and their problems then and i must say again there's nothing requiring such great sacrifice on the part of the american people in this program and i'll bet you it has almost universal acceptance by the people of american as reflected the polls and by the mail and the phone calls to the white house which again i say what i was saying there's nothing that severe in this land on anything that affected are you saying that it should have been much more severe than any of those certainly he should've set the least since they've slept with tide of nesting do you fellas inhibit the federal government from producing on and gas in the atlantic ocean he should've set the colorado wyoming and montana the federal government owns eighty percent of the most awful calling the spike and we're going to use and whether you and the environment is much like it or not that this country needs you should save the environment is that we need a time when you could

manage it from another seventy five film when you're going to fight and we're going to begin building them whether you like them or not you should say to the party that we need for simple or stamp or gotten one third of transportation prices we're not being and we're going to build support in this country whether you like what he has done here is to sit jess a scenario of articulating the problem which is done very well and finally he has made the american people come to grips with the fact that we do have an energy crisis but he has spent all his time telling americans what he's gonna give them for doing all these things to conserve energy does is it was going to pay the cost of all these things he's going to do for american businessman america people but i'll tell you right now the environmentalists were not let him produce another four hundred million tons of coal in bombers would not let him go in the atlantic ocean environments were not met in berlin the electrical build pipelines of previews the lambs gold and a year from now the situation from the standpoint of that option will not be about and i'll bet you we

have no significant decrease in the use of energy in this stuff mr edwards my way back at the beginnings of another major feature cars plunged nearly as heavy emphasis on coal to lessen the dependence on imported oil as rapidly as possible replacement and petroleum supplies in the decades until the new technologies arrive i just wonder since it's such a heavy emphasis you say governor edwards' the very beginning that he didn't say anything to encourage the production of local and you said several times since then that you don't see how four hundred million more tons is going to be produced he has the mandate under existing regulations the federal ban within our village of mine in wyoming in colorado and most western states where eighty percent of the most topical in this country is the governor of west virginia will tell you they're very concerned about what legislation will canada national congress relative to the production and fast they can use of call and i'm telling you now the country gave us another four hundred million pounds of gold and

tv in income five typically an x rays know and that has to be changed if you didn't do what he says should be done you're right we should use more coal dust we have it let's ask her valerie simpson lumber coal underground there is there anything to encourage you to get more coal out or is it just wishful thinking a good idea to get it has a great deal to encourage in fact a mandate getting more call out for one thing that's the whole conversion process from oil and gas to coal has just extraordinary implications for coal during states west virginia being the second largest producer in the nation and your create a bigger market for absolute your mortgage anybody that would listen to the speech and say that though that there is not that there is not a mandate in here and ways in here for the coal industry to responsibly advance itself has not read or listen to the speech the way that i have now as there are problems just because people are converting the goal doesn't mean that cole gets a taken from the mind to where the need might be some adult proms at the dual productivity in west virginia today

work abdullah we haven't actually workforce were producing less coal with more miners then we were on ten years ago that's a nationwide problem now that does have to do to some extent with environmental problems do have a federal red tape with the regulation things of this sort but don't tell me that by west virginian the nation sets its mind to increasing its production of coal win with the energy need is there and and we have the cold that we can't know it's a matter of well it's another determination it's a matter of the force of dollars the force of presents the force of the sect or the interior of the understanding of the environmental protection agency were needed but it can be done and be done with because the nation has to have and that's going to be more more permits each month goes by ok governor thompson was talking about these difficulties governor maggie the head of the national coal association said on friday after he'd seen a draft of this plan that it was all show business based on the native

the administration to be appear to be doing something that there was no natural incentive to produce more cocaine you agree with the public to see the specific legislation for example illinois sits an enormous deposit of colbert's high sulfur coal we've been promised for the last three or four year federal government's been substantial its support research and development turn a high sulfur colin to low sulfur gas more so forward that will talk out of washington that much money in its enormous investment illinois can afford a radical converts can afford only the government here can afford to invest in the technology either in the political faction a gas station foreign development and scrubber technology that will make our call usable were ready to go if you give us at a flexible strip mining act that will let states is set their own standards where they're better now than the federal government's laws you know some research and development money will get that call on the ground will shift around the country where it's needed we can do it but

we need more action president carter i haven't so far we haven't seen them money in the technology that will make this film true and i agree i think we ought to have a re examination of environmental standards on assignment change in order to make a major shift in the energy policy of this nation and move towards the call based energy policy we'll take a look at the clean air act and the standards we've been demanding to see where the temporary relaxation smite not be feasible i'm not sure you can learn all that additional called still the same clean air standards donnellan does this encourage you anything you've heard so far to a look to to your call in colorado and he invited back up just one minute make a previous point i think a question about why didn't the president the man this rhythm and that you know we elected a president not a king and i think it's there are limitations to how far anybody in a democracy minimally i think in terms of let's look at what congress did for instance last time it was dealt with energy policy the price of law it really was about nine

dollars and a lot of push back the other way to seven dollars twenty cents or so but i think in terms of the big incentive for coal production in the state the state has not signaled any oil shale plants without that note any coal mines but there's a lag time we just all of a sudden go so that we'll start of mine yeah there's a three to seven year lag time in a larger mike capital and planning that goes into any new coal mine and i think one of the things you have to do we have to look at the transition policies how do you lead a country by not writing is by not thinking too too large a leadoff of public opinion i think in this state that if it isn't a matter of state policy of preventing additional call our development we want we won a national providing bill we want the impact being that we want we have a real problem a reclamation in the state but i think those problems are easily solved by intelligent people and we're and i see all a lot of incentives to switch the coal than the west is ready mr dukakis you burn very little call relative your other energy use in

massachusetts at the moment and some people feel it for areas of the country a remote from supply like yours it'll require a great rebuilding of the country's railroads really technical start moving you believe that that would be a very desirable when what happened to our rail system in this country is a national scandal we've begun up here to rebuild our world and i think we need that kind of an effort nationally this is it seems to me in the present program because we can only move a whole but we'd also read only badly neglected rail system which has enormous economic benefits are tremendous opportunities for job creation all kinds of things which are economically the saddle so it this is another very good thing about the president's program and if in the course of shifting the call we can also if the revitalization of our national role of work that will appear in the northeastern think that we have a very very much an added plus and one that i want governor dukakis are the industries in and massachusetts prepared to convert the caller didn't get the call there's not gonna be very hard no

question about that and i don't know whether it's technically a technologically possible for some of the conduct that we certainly will do our very best to call our show the pyramid of pop will do it we're going to comply with us the question about the is the other the proper incentives recalled one very important part of this that it must be remembered that there is not it placed upon coal and use any price ceiling now that is an enormous incentive in terms of the investment of private capital cole only a few years ago was averaging six dollars a ton and state west virginia today it's averaging thirty dollars a ton whether the deep political know this is necessary because that the year the amount of money received with a ton of coal is gone up and that in turn have to be plowed back into exactly those costs required to to control environmental problems and and transportation prom so that i think you're

going to continue to see the price of gold increasing in the next several years and that is a function of lawn all the president's policies and that is in itself a great incentive to a more coal production boom years later or so that of course isn't any other coal producing state that chooses to take advantage of that governor thompson doesn't the technology the so called scrubber technology this filtering business which takes out a lot of a abductions so sulfur and coal doesn't that technology actually exist and is an injection that it is just extremely expensive replied well i it does is that it's not perfectly satisfactory otherwise a combination of government resources such as we haven't liked working engine the whole financing authority in private capital would have invested in more heavily long ago the technology is not affected number one or scrubbers or not affected them to others or c shortage of them churchill the lead time on ordering anti pollution the technology for industry is a long one thirty years of delivery are frequent inspections

of time for industry are necessary in order to log into jobs but there's still a lot of money to be invested in improving the technology in a lot of money to be invested in improving the raw fuel itself we could convert their coal rather than worry about the byproducts of money before now granted that that technology is in an infant stage but the reason that it i think is exactly as president carter has said what we have invested billions of dollars in nuclear technology and are now beginning to reap the benefits of that in fact looking forward to more than we have been extremely stingy with money for the development most offer a well and gases by products called conversion and that's where the fellow nominees for now the last decade and i think that's where the federal government ought to be putting part of its windfall profits under any of these taxes that are imposed an editor once around you on this finally on this poll question how many of you agree as i think donna johnson suggested and governor edwards did that

if we're going to burn a lot more coal we got to relax the pollution standard reexamine what do you think there has to be some of that but we also at the perspective we're going to keep call on the rise with the burning more about that we got to also not relax too far there is always a price to be paid when we used call as a natural source of energy several up some we have to relax some of when we do we can't make the fed of getting too excited about the new rules for constructing some other additional plus years i want to say that all these governors from the coal producing states and i worked awful mind up to them to do anything possible in up and produces much coal as possible for them to think that's going in the right direction i'm afraid the president's emphasis will not be enough to make it possible for them to do what they would like to do and i do that even before the regulating the price of the apple although he is benefactor up us open tennis that before regulation of oil again and i'm turning on the vehicle when it really gets serious

and i were like before i got off the film to suggest that i can understand how they would not be impressed by my argument because i'm from louisiana for the april fourth if you're in the army in analyzing what they assumed the president's energy problem would be i'm eighty eight years old and almost on the hand i'd environment point plot point articulate the same objections to the program that i do and this is from time magazines and their cattle thorough analysis of exactly what the president what the polls and white woodwork had i suggested everyone reading on listening to this form including my colleagues pick up an issue of april fourth issue of time magazine and rebates it's the formal closing just one page at points out exactly why would the president has said tonight is not going to work i say it won't work and unknown phenomenon on record i hope i'm really wrong but i'll take you two years from now if we don't do something other than what's been suggested the situation will be worse rather than better in one study spanish on the

coal mine governor right come back to this finally to a discussion with all things new act you have to put up seventy five billion dollars that they understood and particle or not use another four hundred million tons a year you'd have spent untold millions of dollars to beef up the railroad there than the railroad cars in this country when that should be done and you would have to relax the environmental standpoint i want that not achieve this worthwhile goal our lives as governor while in colorado you agree that they're going to have to be some readjustment of clean air standards or environmental standards if you're really produce go on the progress we have a public policy is we have too many zigzag talese get one direction we zag in another and i think that right now i'm not persuaded that well might be and we got a very open mind about that here we have a very low sulfur coal here in colorado so perhaps we don't suffer the same problems of these polls right now the president has gone under the assumption that you would see in a detail package that his program is not inconsistent with the rigorous environmental

standards we now have at least until i'm persuaded otherwise what would you have been able to repress the question would you be willing to support the war ii of environmental and clean air standards in order to reduce the call that need a disney not an absence that actions of other evidence showing that if necessary absolutely not i think we can have both candidates if you will i think we're steps away from the necessary technology to take the salt where i call on either the president addressed that very specifically that might also that this can be an effort to be talking about is anticipated to take as long as nineteen ninety i think he's being realistic on that and yet not farfetched at all so we're looking at a rack the program here i haven't any doubt that within the next few years given its emphasis on call that we can produce the kind of technology the queen of software they are permitted to do so in a way with complies with

reasonable and sensible clean air standards and if we got to get on with the job i'm actually said the sleepy eyelids get all all of us get on with the job of the general assessment now before we close points the third governor edwards' raise now i ask each one of you first well do you agree with president carter when he suggested even if you disagree with his program governor edwards that unless something is done that this country faces a national grid that the morocco very much so and i think it so strictly a matter of mathematics that's not an emotional thing it's simply the way we're using up what we have only increased that he's asking us to diminish our increased from four percent per year to two percent per year but still that's an increase and mathematics are closing and honest and his program is not done is not faculty simply facing up to the major responsibility that he will have as president on keeping warm he's in my government absent some people have questioned the governors of the president's call to

arms and said oh maybe he's crime will what's your view from a one on one you know conservation in this country with president crisis is real and by nineteen eighty five the indian courts to the oil and olivia ma will be upon us ah he's not crying as we have good about the job now i ask only for one term and that is a very pure for economic impacts the news program anytime you talk about raising substantially the price of gasoline and raising substantially the price of other energy going to have enormous economic dislocations lecture prepared to put that money back into the economy or a proper fashion simply thrown out income tax refunds council on energy the impact on jobs you know protect the use of gasoline for trucks for example or keep our highways and rick perry who's a lot of jobs and lose a lot of revenue you're still a president speak to that issue properly in a statement that they anticipate that

in as i said before i was filled with reaction to it some of us governors say in washington last thursday at least one part of the objection we has already been taken care of the president's speech and you can be sure the congress as we listen for her place to the governor's to the mayor's into other people responsible for the stewardship of this nation outside washington and there is a very close look at the economics because they're concerned with jobs is as we're about to ask the question greenlaw i think that that we have a national catastrophe and i think the survival of our free institutions depend upon but it's an interesting kind of catastrophe because it's a very silent one more about national malignancy than it is i think a direct attack like pearl harbor was so the ability of the president to give that public aroused an organ behind them despite the polls again i would point to present what congress has been doing not what the polls have been saying that congress nor the national public has been coming to grips with this problem but the problem is very real very

immediate i'll rule has been set at israel president is not crying wolf and in his emphasis on conservation themes to me struck the proper know like at this row of one fact which i think speaks latin all the money that was put into the pipeline was slow but i'm not suggesting it should have been developed that there's no way a comparison of all that money had been put into home insulation this country we would say the times we won't get with that pipeline i think that helped bring about the effectiveness and the efficiency of the good sense of the conservation ethic and i hope we support their burgers robert what's the view from louisiana and the catastrophe very have invited them and got the money on the alaskan pipelines a lot of the private sector didn't belong to the government in the alaskan pipelines art is part of the free enterprise system fortunately for this confusion very badly need economists say this i been sayin that

fifteen years the president has minimized the disaster as non allies the kind of problem we need to adopt or to address it has it's great in my opinion the top of the mountain trying to get this problem was always like a doctor telling a felon with cancer that he's got a common cold that's how much difference between what the president said the problem isn't with the actual problem is that the whole thing is you realize far too much on federal direction and not enough on the forces of the free market to resolve this problem and all of the free market is going to resolve the problem couple lead an effective problem for the production of coal and coupled with an effective mandatory conservation rules of this plan is not going to work are the free market system governor i take it read between the lines that you wanted him to be regulate the price of everything right equipment to come from louisiana was like there now just like hershey bars and ankle and automobiles and suits and pocket knives and all other commodities so

and i'm a i'd say that that's the opinion of time magazine most of the major metropolitan newspapers and the culture and i have a list of here is the opinion of mr sanderson found one of the foremost economists topkapi is the opinion of everybody knows anything about the problem you you've got one competition you have made it impossible for people to generate money to develop additional images sources the bottom up with a maze of red tape and government regulation and uncertainty and you how about to be american people attacked allen than that it becomes there were going to pay you to conserve so the net result is that america pays more more for less and less energy the regulation we can probably get there his role in world affairs with john edwards has to take two or three or four years to get there but i think the view of most economists and you will to congress's city regulations and what has to come a

large enough and have a financial incentive for one additional image began to become actually gotten but i think that overall the western governors by resolution unanimously gone on record for the deregulation of the natural gas and i think that a lot of us find painfully but inevitably it has to be done however de regulation in that sense we're not talking about a free market in any real sense of it will understand that and the thing that impressed me about the president's program with it in raising the price it's just going to get the advantage of that is the original version of the oil company that they get rid of the deal for a wellness every parent in korea johnson said a minute ago the president or the congress would listen very closely to the governors and the mayors around the country did you gather from your meetings with the governors in washington when you were briefed on the plan that the mood of the great majority of them were sympathetic to the

sort of plan today the great majority of governors' affect all the others realize the magnitude of the crisis i think they were very much in agreement with the president those governors we have responsibilities for things things like keeping our highways and repair and keeping our economy moving and we wanted the bird will be listened to open minded demonstrated that i think of you know more open minded as they submit specific legislation congress we have seen the bills yet and neither has the congress and i think most of the congressman's fashion house representatives will be gone within one by line word by word dollar by dollar and this is going to be a long controversy over and tough debate out of that i think will come a comprehensive than a rational energy policy the rockefellers were right the president has said we have to rush into it tomorrow i think he's deliberately stretched out the timeframe i think the timeframe for the liberation of congress has been there longer than either he or the president think he causes problems bound to be controversial because it is going to impact regions definitely does have a different problem than a lot

of the west though where you have to drive because don't a lot of buses and subways and mass transit and different problem than the northeast in terms of transportation states which peru's agricultural products that given the marketing trucks other states which are not heavy exploiting states don't have that problem so that the original concerns and those concerns and expressed in congress realize and governor you've brought us back to where we began into a final question whether or not these regional differences can be put aside and come up with a national energy policy governor otter well they'll have to be but that wall of what i suspect will resolve ourselves too is probably appropriate and that is a kind of a regional commission approach for example the appalachian regional commission encompasses thirteen states that's a that's a lot of states has a lot of character that a lot of people at a lot of different problems that we work together through a commission and therefore we strive to work more cooperate when i think of you i think that commission concept can build across the nation will do better in the meantime

we have to strive as political chief executives of a state as governors to cooperate as best we can with other parts of the nation because this is a national policy agenda very optimistic it's been happening optimistic his command governor dukakis every day coming together on the energy issue in the court's past several months it was unclear when i went to my first concert back in early nineteen thirty five and has been enormous progress i think in coming to some consensus among the governors in the tiger's been considerable agreement far more agreement than there are ten to the extent that that's a reflection of the nation seems to me it's a sign of good things to come and i hope that we can get consensus i think we will likely have a president with compared to some leadership and that's important i think it's going to be a very substantial roadblock i think will be overcome but i still think we'll be arguing about this policy when the snow next was

thank you we have come a long way in the last five years we now agree that there's an energy crisis and people will laugh unless five years ago when they suggested that i think to that so we will ultimately all be in this thing together really pretty simple word is only developing the atlantic seaboard we produce in the gulf of mexico not by virtue president carter's program that coverage of circumstances which are gonna come upon us and as with institutionalized the hardship that we suffer in this country the last winter season optimistic know well i want to thank you are very much for joining us this evening the mayor lam colorado them to thomson illinois governor edwards' louisiana governor paterson massachusetts and john rockefeller from west virginia which is to thank you all very much and eight mr nabil that tomorrow night in our normal program regular program when we will be dealing with congressional reaction to president carter's speech tonight so it's

bleak has been this program was produced by ballot huge eta and the what you any teeth which are solely responsible for its content and was made possible by a grant from the corporation for public broadcasting he's been

in the polls but the people it's by the poet only now should share on told me that the egyptian delegation jerusalem told

him of the six day war started because nasr didn't realize that that things move so fast one and let me give you this that you you are a great respect dan you of being blessed by the the president of america because you know he has his grudge against mass at and near there her because you know if the sixteen warriors wouldn't stop you about the additional one thousand it's sort of the sign that even beyond the thousand years to fifty four dog have to import political believe me i was of that they're despicable so what'd you do students signed a mascot was for a local by the soviet spending months and it's interesting one maybe seventy to

sixty seven i was visiting moscow yes and the year for the same time home here that israel has mobilized than the gains against syria that was massive only will boo boo boo boo boo make a difference in making this show that that would just do the cd ends so that instead of having police forces begins the cd ends at a huge property when especially ah hah ph who they clear that he heard there would be would be in office mr raphael yes

yes yes because of that time the people who thought they'd on the boom in from that that there are moves against him i didn't score that i would say that we do in the next that would be a board that the hospitals were being but in much of the world ireland you're a general on the names of major sea org no i haven't i haven't given one white by michael lavery have to approve it as the us supreme court once at the service of this is fascinating that in that case although you know i wasn't in montana had the president was robles of an exhibition and i called these women of vision and said for heaven sakes what's happening here and said the egyptians closed the stress off to run

full name and for every israeli it's a declaration of war it's one of these cousins that i you know do i need to know why did you do it if you didn't mean that it is i'm thinking and the victims of this position you know there has been and that that against innocent people or showmanship at the united nations forces en masse of fun that was the week the ottoman when we happened in our armed forces and so that he then met there that position now that

act that any country that does the president will move with an invasive time that that i mean there is lead the world it was one of his worst mistakes so fortunately it wasn't a business that it was using that he did not report it was a terrible crisis over mr president i can tell you a whole happy and on words i am an address an intimate view inside the review and the cartoons are on the way he's been seeking

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