The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

Intro ROBERT MacNEIL: Good evening. Leading this news this Friday, Panama's banks were ordered closed until funds in the United States are freed. Secretary of State Shultz took his Middle East peace plan to Israel, Jordan, Syria and Egypt. The Postal Commission recommended raising the first class letter rate to 25 cents. The unemployment rate dropped to the lowest in nine years. We'll have details in our news summary in a moment. Judy Woodruff is in Washington tonight. JUDY WOODRUFF: After the news summary, we look first tonight at the surprise move in Congress to kill aid to the Nicaraguan contras. Cokie Roberts explains how it happened. Next, a report on one city's efforts to help the disabled get around. Then, two looks at South Africa. First, new signs that reform efforts there may be stalled. A black independence leader and a South African journalist join us. And finally, Charlayne Hunter Gault has a conversation with South African singer Miriam Makeba.News Summary WOODRUFF: The crisis in Panama grew worse today when the National Bank there announced that it could not meet the demands of local banks for money, thereby forcing those banks to close down. Panamanian citizens formed long lines outside international banks in an attempt to withdraw money. But those two appeared to have cash flow problems. The situation has resulted from a freeze on U. S. cash shipments to Panama, instituted in response to a request by Eric Arturo Delvalle, the president who was ousted by strongman Manuel Noriega last week. In Washington, a small demonstration was staged outside the Panamanian embassy, led by Delvalle's ambassador to the United States, Juan Sosa. He told reporters he was encouraged by today's events in Panama.

JUAN SOSA, Panamanian Ambassador: The situation in Panama today is of great chaos. The banks have decided to remain closed, because the panic that started this week is making the whole system untenable. We feel that we're looking at the last days of the dictatorship and the reports we get from Panama are very, very encouraging. WOODRUFF: At the State Department, spokeswoman Phyllis Oakley announced that U. S. citizens are being advised not to travel to Panama.

PHYLLIS OAKLEY, State Dept. Spokeswoman: Certainly there has been very little violence during the period of the general strike, and while that is now over, having been terminated by the organizers, the overall political situation remains unsettled, and we're issuing this simply as a prudent, appropriate question to give advice for American citizens. WOODRUFF: On Capitol Hill, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee today voted unanimously to urge the Reagan Administration to end all contacts with General Noriega and to consider imposing economic sanctions against the military regime in his country. But the committee took no action on a proposed trade embargo against Panama. Robin? MacNEIL: Secretary of State George Shultz began a second round of peace efforts in the Middle East, visiting Israel, Syria, Egypt and Jordan. In Jerusalem, Prime Minister Shamir formally received Shultz's peace plan in writing. Shamir promised to respond when he visits Washington in ten days. But aides indicated it was unacceptable to him. Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, the Labor Party leader, is believed to approve the approach. The Palestine Liberation Organization said Shultz was the target of a car bomb found and disarmed about 300 yards from his hotel. Israel barred journalists from major trouble spots in the occupied territories. But violent Palestinian protests broke out, and Israeli troops shot and killed two Arabs and wounded eight. In Beirut, two senior officials of the British Oxfam Relief Agency were among four people reported missing and believed kidnapped today. The two officials were identified as Peter Coleridge, Middle East coordinator of Oxfam, and Omar Trabulsi, head of its Lebanese operation. Colleagues said the pair disappeared after Trabulsi picked up Coleridge in a meeting at the port city of Sydon yesterday. WOODRUFF: From Nicaragua, a report that 13 people, including an American volunteer of the Witness for Peace Organization, were seized after an attack by contra rebels on a mountain village last Tuesday. According to the Associated Press, the kidnapped American, Richard Boren of Elkin, North Carolina, was in Nicaragua to document contra human rights abuses. Witness for Peace describes itself as an independent organization opposed to U. S. support for the contras. The raid took place about 75 miles north of Managua. A contra spokesman in Washington said the people seized in the raid were suspected of aiding the Sandinista government. MacNEIL: The Soviet Government reported today that 31 people died in ethnic riots in Azerbaijan last weekend, the first acknowledgment of a death toll. The Tass News Agency said criminal elements committed violent actions and engaged in robberies. They killed 31 people, among them members of various nationalities, old men and women. Tass said resolute measures were taken to normalize the situation. The riots followed mass demonstrations in the neighboring republic of Armenia, over the disposition of territory disputed since the republics were created in the 1920's. WOODRUFF: Back in this country, the price of a first class postage stamp could rise to 25 cents within the next two weeks. That proposal was one of several made today by the Postal Rate Commission. Other suggestions include lower rates for paying bills, and higher rates for advertising mail. The package is designed to prevent a $5 billion postal service deficit by 1989. The Postal Board of Governors will consider the package next week. MacNEIL: It was a good news/bad news day for the economy today. The good came on jobs. The Labor Department said unemployment fell last month to 5. 7%, the lowest since July 1979. The bad concerned red ink, the kind that spells the words budget deficit. The Congressional Budget Office predicted that next year's deficit could reach $165 billion, $35 billion more than the White House is predicting. That gap represents a difference of opinion. The CBO says the Administration's forecast for the economy is too rosy. It's predicting less growth, as well as higher inflation and interest rates. WOODRUFF: Northwest Airlines got poor marks in a report issued today by the Federal Aviation Aministration. The report cited a number of safety violations, including pilots who flew longer hours than allowed, delayed aircraft repairs, poor record keeping of repairs, and flying two unairworthy jets. FAA officials said they would wait for a response from Northwest before deciding whether to impose fines. That ends our summary of the day's top stories. Ahead on the NewsHour, the contra aid confusion in the Congress, equal access to transportation for the handicapped, and South Africa today, as seen by a journalist, a political activist, and exiled singer Miriam Makeba. Contra-fusion MacNEIL: First tonight, we try to untangle the confusion left by last night's surprise House votes on contra aid. The House first approved, then immediately turned around and rejected a Democratic plan for humanitarian aid for the Nicaraguan rebels. The narrow vote means that the contras for the moment have no military or humanitarian aid on tap from the United States. Our Congressional correspondent Cokie Roberts explains what happened.

COKIE ROBERTS: Robin, yesterday's action was scheduled by House Speaker Jim Wright last month, after Congress rejected the Administration's bid for more military aid for the contras. To get a majority for that vote, Wright promised wavering Democrats he'd give them another opportunity to register a nonmilitary, pro contra aid vote. It was a finely honed legislative tactic. It backfired last night. Rep. JIM WRIGHT, Speaker of the House: On this vote, the Ayes are 208, the Nays are 216, and the bill is not agreed to.

ROBERTS: Some of the liberal Democrats who had preferred the leadership plan during the first vote preferred no plan at all during the second vote. Add to that only a handful of Republicans who could be convinced that the Democratic package was better than no package at all, and the plan falls short. Rep. WRIGHT: We were disappointed that so very many of the Republican members who had been expressing concern about the welfare and the well being of the resistance forces apparently were not interested at all in the program that focused on humanitarian assistance.

ROBERTS: Republicans, angry that the process ruled out a vote on their contra aid plan, decided to embarrass the Democrats. Minority leader Bob Michel blamed Speaker Jim Wright for the defeat. Rep. BOB MICHEL, Minority Leader: They could have won that. It was the procedure that in the end done them in. Because we told them even during discussion of rules, if you would have gone by our normal procedure of King of the Hill, vote on our proposition first, if we win, they still get an opportunity for a vote on theirs to sweep us off the board. Of course if we'd have lost, it would have been kind of academic at that juncture. But the very -- you see, there were nine of the twelve on my side who voted, who didn't vote for the Democrats this time, who were -- you go down to the bottom of it, we're incensed over what they were attempting to do to us, and maybe to me personally, more to us, I think, as a party. And that rankled them. And so that was a group, and as said, they could have -- they just were a little bit too clever.

ROBERTS: Michigan's David Bonior, who led the floor fight for the Democratic leadership, disagrees. Rep. DAVID BONIOR, (D) Michigan: I don't think the Speaker blew it. I think the Speaker, I think this was a pyrrhic victory, frankly, for the White House and those people who say they want peace in Central America. Pyrrhic in a sense, well, they got the gratification of beating a Democratic package yesterday. I don't know whether this necessarily helps the peace process or helps negotiated process in Nicaragua that will occur this next week. We're behind, we're in the minority. I have never been one of those to be an obstructionist around here. But sometimes you have to kind of get their attention that this isn't going to fly. ROBERTS: So now what? Rep. BONIOR: So I think we have to wait and reflect and see what happens. I think it would be wrong to rush headlong into another package. And if we have to look to see what happens in Central America, particularly Nicaragua, with regard to the peace talks and the negotiations, to see how they do next week -- they are meeting in Nicaragua face to face -- the Director of the Nicaraguan Resistance, or the contras and the government of Nicaragua. And maybe they can come together, maybe that will work out. We don't know. And I think it's time to pause and watch that process a little bit. Because there is tension on the contras. Because there's no assurances that there's going to be any additional aid given to them.

ROBERTS: The next effort for contra aid might well come from the Senate. A bipartisan coalition got together today to announce it's ready to make the next move. Sen. DAVID BOREN, (D) Oklahoma: We just can't allow this to continue on, this kind of stalemate, and we hope to play a constructive role. That's the reason we are deliberately leaving some of the details unclear at this point. We want to see what kind of consensus can be formed -- MacNEIL: Cokie, despite the move in the Senate that you just reported, is that in effect it for contra aid for this congress, would you say? ROBERTS: Oh, no. I think we will certainly see contra aid come back in this congress. We might see it come back in other congresses beyond this congress, probably for years to come. But certainly this congress there will be another contra aid package. The question is simply how to get it to the floor. What the President had back on February 3 was what was called ''expedited procedures,'' a way of just bringing the package quickly to the floor, no amendments, straight vote. And that was what the White House liked so much. Now -- and the then the second came up because the Speaker promised it. Now there's no sort of obvious way to bring a contra aid package to the floor. And that's what people are talking about right now, is what kind of bill they could attach it to in the Senate that would have to bring it to the House, that kind of thing. MacNEIL: So you don't think it depends on the Sandinistas playing into the contra's hands by doing something that just outrages even the Democrats. It doesn't need some -- they're going to try and do something, even if there is not a big development, do you think? ROBERTS: I don't think they'll try to do military aid without a big development. What the Senators that we just saw were talking about was not military aid. And I don't think that we should expect to see that unless something goes very awry in Nicaragua. But I think that there is no desire on the part of this Congress to completely cut off the contras from any aid whatsoever. Now, obviously, there are a bunch of Democratic liberals in the House who do have that desire, that's the problem that they had yesterday. There are more than a hundred liberals who have voted consistently against contra aid. That's what they believe, that's the politically smart thing for them to do at home. They were -- the Democratic leadership was able to pull those liberals in behind their measure, which was quite startling to behold. You had people standing up on the floor who had never been for contra aid in their lives saying I urge my colleagues to vote for this package. You had outside groups that have always lobbied hard against contra aid, saying it's okay this time, we give you a pass. And there's a sense that this will help with the peace process, but more importantly that it will help with the Democratic Party's political problems, to have some sort of contra aid package. The problem is how to get one in this very polarized situation. MacNEIL: Did Speaker Wright really want an aid package himself? Or did he just not want his party to take the rap if the contra supporters turned out to be right down the road? ROBERTS: Oh, I think he wanted a package himself. He has been very involved in this process. And he has played quite a role in terms of getting the peace process going. I think he wanted a package that he thought would aid the peace process. The problem was finding a package that would get enough votes, and clearly what happened in the end was that he was unable to find a package that would get enough votes. Now, this was not something that was easy for him to control, to put it mildly. He did get those liberals, and they stuck with him through that first vote. But then he needed Republicans on the second vote. And the Democratic leadership sort of assumed that when the choice came down to some contra aid vs. no contra aid, that the Republicans would say, Well, something is better than nothing. They obviously didn't do that. They had decided to really take the political victory rather than the substantive victory, so it left us in this very odd situation with liberal Democrats asking for contra aid, conservative Republicans voting against it, and we woke up this morning to the headlines of ''President Reagan gleeful over House defeat of contra aid. '' MacNEIL: Why would President Reagan be gleeful over it? Why were the Republicans gleeful, whom you talked to today, gleeful, if any were? ROBERTS: Well, first of all, they like to win. And the Democratic House of Representatives -- MacNEIL: Just for the fun of winning, even though their contras are not going to get any aid? ROBERTS: Well, they -- first of all, the contras have some aid in the pipeline. And both sides have been saying that, so that they're not really concerned that the contras are going to be without any aid tomorrow. And I think they think that something will happen soon enough to get the contras aid if they need it. But you have to remember there's a huge Democratic majority in the House of Representatives. Republicans don't win very often, they were delighted to win this time, but they were also as you saw the Republican leader say, they were angry. They were angry at the process, and they were ready to take it out on this package. MacNEIL: This is the first -- and maybe -- correct me if I'm wrong -- it seems to me since he took over as Leader, this is the first real setback that, public setback anyway, that Speaker Wright has had. Is this a serious sort of diminishment of his prestige as leader? ROBERTS: Well, he has wanted to win and has won, you're absolutely right. But -- and a lot of people are reading it as a very serious setback. And there's just -- you cannot state strongly enough how deeply felt the feelings are between the political parties in the House of Representatives right now. It's very polarized, as I said. On the other hand, there are those who think that the moves that the Speaker made in terms of bringing Democrats and the caucus together behind this package served him very well, and will serve him well on future debates on other issues. MacNEIL: Well, Cokie Roberts, again thank you very much for being with us. Judy? WOODRUFF: Ahead on the NewsHour, equal access for the handicapped, and South Africa. First the views of an activist and a journalist, and then an interview with singer Miriam Makeba. Equal Access WOODRUFF: Next tonight, we examine a major concern for physically handicapped Americans, access to public transit. In January, a Federal Court in Philadelphia ordered the Department of Transportation to toughen its regulations requiring access to mass transit for the handicapped. The court said the department's regulations allowed local mass transit systems to avoid becoming fully accessible to the disabled. Well, today, the Dept. of Transportation filed an appeal to that ruling. It's the latest in a seesaw struggle by activists and public officials to balance rights for the disabled with the costs of special equipment. We have a background report by Spencer Michels of Public Station KQED in San Francisco.

SPENCER MICHELS: Every year, members of the American Public Transit Association convened to inspect the latest in mass transit hardware and discuss mutual problems. And every year since 1981, disabled protestors have gathered to confront them. So when the Transit Association held its annual convention in San Francisco late last year, hundreds of disabled activists from across the country converged on the city. They came to express their outrage at a national public transit policy that they claim has denied them equal access for the past seven years. FEMALE SPEAKER: The issue is very simple. We want to use the same public transit as everybody else. Our taxes pay for it, we're part of the public, and we deserve to ride the public transit. And we will ride.

MICHELS: Many of these same protestors were involved in similar demonstrations more than a decade ago. In 1977, sit ins around the country by disabled activists prompted passage of the Disabled Bill of Rights, landmark federal legislation that was supposed to ensure equal rights to employment, housing, education and transportation for the disabled. But on the mass transit issue, the gains were shortlived. In 1981, the American Public Transit Association convinced the Dept. of Transportation to modify the law. Association members said that putting wheelchair lifts on every public bus was a waste of tax dollars, a cost for some transit districts of as much as $100 per disabled rider. JACK GILSTRAP, American Public Transit Asso. : A lot of communities look at it, and they say, Well, putting a lift on every bus in Buffalo where the snow fall is extraordinarily high and expecting people to somehow find their way down to the bus stop to use that lift, which may or may not operate in the heavy snow, doesn't sound like it makes a lot of sense to them.

MICHELS: Transit Association Executive Vice President Jack Gilstrap says the issue is money, and not civil rights. Mr. GILSTRAP: We look on it as a transportation issue, and trying to find the maximum transportation for the maximum people, with the resources available. You look on it as a philosophical matter of some kind, and say that every human being ought to have every equal right to get on every vehicle, which would mean we all ought to have the right to own a Mercedes.

MICHELS: The Transit Association says local districts should decide what mode of transit to offer the disabled. And that more cost efficient service often can be provided through Power Transit or dial a ride services. But disabled activists say that Power Transit requires 24 hour advance reservations, and is not available on weekends or evenings. The disabled say they should be able to ride public transportation whenever and wherever they need to travel, a view that is shared by some politicians. LEO McCARTHY, Lt. Gov. , California: Transportation means independence. Independence means opportunity to do all of those things that all other Americans not wheel chair bound, not disabled, take for granted every day.

MICHELS: It was ironic that a clash between transit officials and the disabled took place in San Francisco, which has become a model for disabled transit. The Bay Area Rapid Transit System is fully wheel chair accessible, and California is one of only two states to require the installation of wheel chair lifts on all new buses. Nevertheless, the long simmering feud between the American Public Transit Association and the disabled finally boiled over when activists tried to block conventioneers from attending a reception at San Francisco's City Hall. DISABLED WOMAN BEING ARRESTED: Can you imagine that I can't get to the job, or my work, or my recreation on the bus, but I can get on the paddy wagon to be arrested!

MICHELS: While Transit Association leaders were troubled by the confrontation, their position on the issue remained unchanged. Mr. GILSTRAP: There's got to be some kind of common sense applied to this at some point. And I think that is why the courts have come down and said, Wait a minute. This is not a civil right. Is there a civil right for every person to be a millionaire? I mean, I think it's kind of carrying it a little fair. MARILYN GOLDEN, Disabled Activist: APTA loves to make it look like the disabled are wanting utopia, and it's too expensive, but lifts on new buses, which is what we want, only add 7% or less to the cost of a bus, and many cities have done it.

MICHELS: During the demonstration, 133 arrests were made. And after spending a night in jail, the activists had their day in court. DISABLED ACTIVIST WOMAN: Our position is that we have exercised our First Amendment rights under the United States Constitution to call attention to laws that immorally obstruct our access to public transit.

MICHELS: Among those who attended the court hearing was the man who had become the country's leading advocate of civil rights for the disabled. For Ed Roberts, the transportation was just the latest in a series of public and private battles he has waged since he fell victim to polio at age 14. ED ROBERTS, disabled activist, over phone lying in iron lung: I'm thinking about going to the arraignment, to the hearings at 2:00 o'clock. (in wheelchair to reporter) One of the things I learned is if I let other people define my life, I would be probably dead by now or living in an institution (unintelligible). But I did it. I learned how to define my own limits. And I found out those limits were a lot fewer than I thought.

MICHELS: But the limits of the nation's public transit system remain a major stumbling block to independence. And in their efforts to overcome those limitations, Roberts and other activists see another tough fight ahead. Mr. ROBERTS: We're going to be out there in the streets, and we're going to be out and we're not going to accept the old ways. We don't want to be viewed as hopeless and helpless. We're going to do what we have to to make it clear to everyone that this society is going to change. And that we're the best able to make it change. Further Right MacNEIL: We go next to South Africa, where recent events have put into question the future of the government's efforts to reform the system of racial separation, or apartheid, in some phases of the country's economic and political life. In the past two weeks, the government of President P. W. Botha has imposed a ban on anti apartheid groups and threatened to bar foreign donations going to them. But these steps have not stopped a white backlash against Botha's National Party. On Wednesday, it lost two seats in parliamentary bi elections to far right opponents. We'll get two assessments of what these developments mean for the country, but first some background. The latest crackdown against anti apartheid groups began eight days ago. While the black opposition had been expecting new restrictions, the severity and scope of the crackdown took many of them by surprise. One of them was Winnie Mandela, wife of jailed activist Nelson Mandela.

WINNIE MANDELA: We cannot imagine what better way the government could ever have had of sowing the seeds of the worst conflict of this country, by silencing all opposition to the government when it has in fact all the powers in its hands. It is a state of emergency, it has effectively driven out the international media from reporting the truth about this country, it has literally reduced the country to a police state. MacNEIL: Under the government's order, all anti apartheid activity was prohibited. Troops moved into the township to maintain law and order. Members of the Black Sash organization draped its headquarters to protest the banning. But many South Africans believe the real focus was not the blacks, but rather right wing conservatives who were mounting a serious challenge to P. W. Botha's National Party in two parliamentary bi elections. In campaign speeches, Conservative Party Leader Dr. Andries Treurnicht portrayed Botha as a liberal, and his crackdown as too little too late, an election stunt. The Conservatives worked hard, wooing the votes of the white working class, many of whom opposed Botha's program of limited reform.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: (unintelligible) in the days of apartheid, you could go in, a white man could go and he could have a drink in peace. You walk in there now, you find a rowdy African, you find a dirty, slobby one. He doesn't even smell like a white man. He stinks. MacNEIL: The crackdown left the church the only voice of opposition. Over the weekend, Archbishop Desmond Tutu led a protest march to the Cape Town parliament. It was the largest gathering of church leaders ever to defy the government Tutu and others were briefly arrested, but not repentant.

REPORTER: Do you intend to (unintelligible) the defiance should become a frequent feature of church life in the future? Archbishop DESMOND TUTU: We are not defying. We are obeying God. And we ought to obey God every day. MacNEIL: The Conservative Party won the two bi elections. Party members hailed the vote as proof that South Africa's five million whites reject Botha's program. Botha blamed his party's defeat on foreign interference. And radical blacks who polarized the white voters. But as a result of this week's election, the right wing conservatives have now become key players in the future of South Africa. WOODRUFF: We now get two perspectives on these developments. Simon Barber is Washington correspondent for the Johannesburg based newspaper Business Day. Saths Cooper is a founder of South Africa's black consciousness movement, and is a former president of the Azanian Peoples Organization, one of the groups affected by the recent ban. He is studying in this country on a Fulbright scholarship at Boston University. He joins us from Public Station WGBH. We invited the South African government to participate, but it declined. First of all, Mr. Barber, just how much more powerful is the extreme right wing in South Africa as a result of this week's elections? SIMON BARBER, Business Day, Johannesburg: I don't think the election by itself has made it any more powerful than it was. It is a symptom of its growing power that was shown last May in the elections then on May 6, when it won 22 seats. It was expected to win the two seats back that it won this week. And I think we probably will see an increasing, its power increasing in the municipal elections in October, when it may well take control of the Transvaal at the municipal level. WOODRUFF: Well, let me ask it this way, how much more of a threat is this, is the right wing to the, extreme right wing to the Botha government? Mr. BARBER: It is a threat as much as is besiege to be a threat by the Botha Government. In fact, in Afrikaner political circles, the right wing is seen as actually a greater threat than the ANC. And as a result of that, it is having a profound impact on the way the government is behaving now. WOODRUFF: Mr. Cooper, do you see it the same way? SATHS COOPER, anti apartheid activist: Not quite. I think that for the entire life of the Nationalist Party, which has been in power since 1948, there have been threats from both the center and far right. And what we're seeing now is merely a stock relief against which the recent gains by the conservative right wing elements have been made. Because of the extreme repression, the focus on South Africa and talk of apparent reform, this seems to be something that is looming large. But in the state of things in South Africa, this is not really a phenomenon that is that hair raising. And I think it serves the Botha government's purposes to point to the right wing and say, Well we can't move that fast, because we have this far right wing threat. WOODRUFF: How do you reconcile what he's saying with what you just said, Mr. Barber? Mr. BARBER: I agree that in reality the right wing is probably not the threat that the government makes it out to be. But -- and I agree also that the Pretoria, the current government, is using the right wing threat to first of all to criticize the West sanctions, to say, Listen, by imposing sanctions you have now made these people more powerful, it's your fault that we are not moving forward any faster than we are. But by the same token, you know, I think one also has to realize that were it not for a few thousands votes last May, the Conservative Party could well have won the Orange Free State, one of the provinces, as a whole. And that I think there is a serious threat that they could in fact at the next general election become the government. WOODRUFF: What about that, Mr. Cooper? Mr. COOPER: Well, I think that we should bear in mind the new constitutional dispensation and the fact that representation is no more along provincial lines. So it becomes a little bit more moot that the Orange Free State could have been won by -- WOODRUFF: What do you mean? Can you translate that for those of us who -- Mr. COOPER: Okay. It's -- previously, the position was that there was provincial delimitation, much like you have the different states in the United States. There were four provinces in South Africa, each having seeming legislative power. All that has been decentralized in a fashion now where it gives the state president ultimate responsibility for the government, for the running of the country. And in terms of reform, reform can happen at the top without these threats being put out as a break to the reform process. WOODRUFF: So you're saying reform can go ahead despite what is happening. Mr. COOPER: I think reform can go ahead. I think we need to understand the psyche of the Afrikaner people. People who have felt beleaguered, who feel beleaguered at this time, but who have an implicit belief in authority. They have this belief that their leaders are doing well. Despite the fact that you have the far right screaming that white rights are being sold down the drain. If push comes to shove, the white electorate knows that it is the present government that they can look up to. This is not to say that the present government is being looked up to by black people at all. That is an entirely different equation. WOODRUFF: Mr. Barber, can reform go ahead under these circumstances? At the pace that it was, if you want to call it that? Mr. BARBER: Well, I think we have to define what it is -- exactly what it is that the government means by reform. There were in the 70's and early 80's, there were steps that were in South African terms, steps forward. In terms of allowing black trade unions, more recently the breaking down of job reservation, the removal in a certain guarded way of the past laws. But the government now is not -- I mean, I think it's -- reform is the wrong word. The government has decided that it wishes to control everything. It is going to control every step of the way in which apartheid, as it is understood now, is broken down. It's a kind of totalitarian reform, if you like. What they are doing, what they were doing last week, what they have done with the -- they intend to do with the promotion of orderly internal politics bill which will restrict funds from outside to groups the government -- WOODRUFF: Do you expect that to pass? Mr. BARBER: I wouldn't be surprised. What they're doing essentially is saying to the black majority, ''We will negotiate with you on our terms, and our terms alone. '' And they are trying to squeeze out any of the legitimate peaceful opposition to the point where it just becomes so exhaustive that it has -- the government hopes it will have option but to negotiate with the government on its terms. WOODRUFF: And just quickly, what bearing then does this new publicity, new power, whatever words you want to put on it, that the extreme right is getting, what bearing does that have on what the government is trying to do? What the Botha government is trying to do? Mr. BARBER: I really -- I think that had the last, the end of last year, there were moves ahead, experimental moves. For example in the release of one of Nelson Mandela's most famous cellmates, Gorban Mbeki, there was an experimental step on their part to see whether there would be a kind of quid pro quo from the ANC. They had had some kind of dialogue with the ANC. I'm not sure -- WOODRUFF: They meaning -- Mr. BARBER: The government -- WOODRUFF: The government. Mr. BARBER: And they had hoped against -- elements of the government had hoped against hope that they would get this quid pro quo. Those elements -- when that didn't happen, those elements of the government I think were dispirited, the more security -- WOODRUFF: Just to move along, what does that mean? Mr. BARBER: Well, it means that P. W. Botha, who is really the supreme -- who has actually dictatorial powers, was not going to listen to them anymore. He now listens to his security types. And that is -- and is heading down -- as I say, this program of totalitarian reform. WOODRUFF: What are Mr. Botha's options at this point, Mr. Cooper, as you see it? Mr. COOPER: I think if he were that powerful, he would start the negotiation process. I think also it is on -- WOODRUFF: He would start the neg -- is that what you said? Mr. COOPER: That's right. In earnest. Not making these half handed gestures through third parties and so on. If he was serious about negotiations, I don't think he is, it is saying to groups like the ANC, You must come to us on negotiation. And if they were really in control and in power, they would begin that process. If they were serious about peace and security, economic stability, in that part of the world, they would do so. But they clearly -- there's going to be no peace in P. W. Botha's lifetime. He has no intention of giving any credence to groups like the ANC, and all the other groups that they have banned. You must bear in mind that they tried to do this in 1960, and failed. In 1977, after the death of Steve Biko, they banned 17 organizations, and they've done so again last week, banning 17 organizations. WOODRUFF: So what do you think happens next? Mr. COOPER: I think that we're headed for a period when the black community is going to very seriously reassess its position. We know that in the last few months that important anti apartheid groups have been thinking about participation in the October elections. And this is going to completely remove that option from them. Because people are going to say, This is a government that you cannot trust. And more and more people are going to look at the violent option. I think that is why the churches become so concerned. The church, which has always stood for nonviolent, peaceful change in the country, has stepped in, trying to actually patch up, actually say to young people, say to the black community, There is hope for peace. But the reaction of the police last week at the demonstration was very clear. There is no hope for peace. That this government will have to be forced to the position of negotiation, and it can reach that position if in the West they were put into that negotiation state of mind. Right now, the West is not interested in pushing the Botha government to negotiate for peaceful change and stability. WOODRUFF: Is that what we're headed for, Mr. Barber, more violence and more intractable situation? Mr. BARBER: I think there's a good chance. But there's one point I would like to add to that about the way the government is pursuing, is moving. One of the aspects of its program now is to -- they're talking about privatizing part of the state -- selling off many of the state monopolies, to raise capital to inject into the black community and into development. Now, what essentially they are doing is they are saying, Right, play our game with us -- they're saying to the black majority. Play our game with us, and we will give you the goodies. We will give you the schools, the houses, the rest of it. Don't play our game -- WOODRUFF: What does that lead to in your mind? Mr. BARBER: Well, I'm not sure -- I don't know exactly where it goes, but essentially, I mean, what we're seeing this period of aggressive co optation, an attempt at co optation -- WOODRUFF: And do you think it'll be successful? Mr. BARBER: My prognosis is that South Africa is headed for a period of 40 years in isolation pretty much like Franco's Spain. Not really part of the civilized world. WOODRUFF: Very depressing outlook. Mr. Barber, thank you for being with us. Mr. Cooper, we thank you, too. Makeba MacNEIL: While most of the stories recently out of South Africa have detailed new efforts by the government to silence its internal critics, there are many South African exiles who continue to find ways to speak out against the country's rigid segregation laws. Our final focus tonight is a look at one of South Africa's most unusual voices in exile. It is Charlayne Hunter Gault's story.

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: They call her ''Momma Africa, the Empress of South African Song. '' One of the most powerful voices ever to be heard by the South African black townships. In the beginning, back in the early 50's, they called her the nutbrown baby. A young unknown from Maseru Village, singing mostly for free. But within a decade, the voice of Miriam Makeba would be heard around the world. Not only as Africa's first international singing success, but increasingly as one of the most prominent critics of her country's rigid segregation laws known as apartheid. In 1960, Makeba's mother died. When she attempted to return home for the funeral, the South African government stamped her passport 'Invalid. ' For the next 28 years, Makeba would be a unique exile, outlawed at home, but welcomed everywhere else. Especially by African leaders like Kenyan President Jomo Kenyatta, Mozambique's Samora Machel. Many sent for her to sing as their countries gained the independence still denied the black majority in South Africa. Guinean President Sekou Toure, thrust her onto the world political stage as an adopted Guinean, and delegate to the United Nations. In apparent retaliation for her anti apartheid speeches at the U. N. , South Africa banned her records. Still, Makeba enjoyed unprecedented success around the world until 1968, when she married her fourth husband, American student leader and black power activist, Stokely Carmichael. In her new autobiography, Makeba: My Story, Makeba recalls getting the news from her manager. ''My concerts are being cancelled left and right. I learned that people are afraid that my shows will finance radical activities. It is frightening. This wonderful dream come true. A little African girl who becomes a big star in America. It's all over. '' And so it was a new kind of exile. For 19 years, Makeba made her home in Guinea and was not to be seen onstage again in America until 1987, when she returned with Paul Simon's Graceland Tour. [Makeba and Simon sing] HUNTER-GAULT: Thanks to thetour, Makeba, now 56, has just released her first U. S. album in 19 years, Sangoma, a collection of traditional South African songs. I spoke with Miriam Makeba recently about her life as South Africa's most famous exile. She began her answer with an excerpt from her new book. MIRIAM MAKEBA: I look at an ant, and I see myself, a native South African endowed by nature with a strength much greater than my size, so I might cope with the weight of a racism that crushes my spirit. I look at a bird and I see myself, a native South African, soaring above the injustice of apartheid on wings of pride, the pride of a beautiful people. I look at a stream and I see myself, a native South African, flowing irresistibly over the obstacles until they become smooth and one day disappear. Flowing from the origin that has been forgotten towards an end, but will never be. HUNTER-GAULT: That's lovely. Is that what it's like being South Africa's most famous exile? Ms. MAKEBA: I don't know what to say about being South Africa's most famous exile. I think that when you're in exile, you're in exile. Whether famous or not. Exile is painful. HUNTER-GAULT: One of the things you describe in the book is how your daughter in fact lost her mind in exile. Tell me about that. Ms. MAKEBA: Yes, I find it very difficult to talk about my daughter, because it's like yesterday. But the thing is we in Africa in general, but in South Africa in particular, have an extended family. When I leave home, I leave my child. She has my mother, the grandmothers, the aunts, the uncles, the cousins, and by age years, if you are 12, you take care of the one who's five, and down the line. So a child is never left alone and abandoned. And in a way, I sometimes regret that I had to bring my daughter here, because I took her from that kind of society to bring her into a society where there is individualism. Here, you get married, you go live with your husband, have your children, and that's your family, and your family ends right there. But our family is a large family. And my daughter was here, and I had to travel to work and earn money for us to live. I can't sing in one city, or in one country. And I left her, and she did not have that cushion to fall on when I was away. HUNTER-GAULT: What other sacrifices do you feel you've made as a result of being in exile? Ms. MAKEBA: My first sacrifice is not being able to go home to my country, where I was born. And to not see the grave where my mother was laid to rest is very painful. And to see also all the children and people who have come out of South Africa since the 60's and then such a big, another big exodus in 76 after the Soweto uprising, and to see them now, and coming out and being helpless. And some of us also being helpless in helping them. That's also very painful. HUNTER-GAULT: Is there anything that makes it easier, any consolations? Ms. MAKEBA: Just my song. I'm very happy when I sing. Even when I sing a sad song, I'm happy. Because I just -- it just soothes everything. So my song is my happiness. HUNTER-GAULT: You talked about your mother, who possessed these special powers and in fact when you were leaving South Africa, she said that you would never come back again. Tell me about those special powers and about that prophecy. Ms. MAKEBA: She could communicate between us and those who have left us, and some power which not everyone has in South Africa. But we have many Sangomas, which my was one of. HUNTER-GAULT: Sangomas? Ms. MAKEBA: And those are our traditional healers. And there songs which we sing to help them get into their concentration, and be able to see what is ailing someone, and what herbs and -- or whatever medicine, traditional medicine they can use to cure those ailments. She was one of those. And the songs I sing in my album, Sangoma, which I just recorded, most of them, 70% are the songs of the Sangomas. And I'm happy that I recorded this album, because it just makes me feel that much closer to my mother, and to that which we believe. I know that it's very difficult for Westerners to believe that, because when a people become colonized, the first thing they do is to strip you of your own culture. And impose that of their own to be able to manipulate you much better. HUNTER-GAULT: But you had a very mischievous way of dealing with the authorities and where they had no idea of what you were singing about. Ms. MAKEBA: We were not allowed to sing in English. We didn't care. Because we sang in our own languages. And there were songs we sang that were very detrimental to them, they didn't understand, until some of us, because in every revolution in every country, you always find someone within the oppressed to collaborate with the oppressor -- some people went and told them, Watch these people, because they are, you know, arousing the consciousness of the people, in that they're singing this and that song, which means this and that. And then those songs were banned. HUNTER-GAULT: I have to tell you that the first time I ever heard you I had just gotten out of high school in the early 60's, and you were talking about your native village. Do you remember that? Ms. MAKEBA: In my native village, near Johannesburg, which in fact, the village is near Johannesburg. That village was Maseru, which today is Soweto. HUNTER-GAULT: And you also said that everybody -- you called it the click song, because -- Ms. MAKEBA: They cannot say (makes clicking sound) -- HUNTER-GAULT: I had to hear you say that (laugh). I read in a South African newspaper that they recently had a revival of your songs, just the second time in the whole 28 years you've been gone that they've allowed your songs to be played. And the people were so excited that it started to rain just as the concert began, and even when the musicians took refuge, the people wouldn't leave. Does that make your exile easier or harder? Ms. MAKEBA: It makes me happy in that all of these years that they've tried to separate me from my home, and from the people at home, it seems as though the people at home have never forgotten me, as well as I have never forgotten them. And which means that blood is thicker than mud, and there's nothing that can come between us. I'm also happy that the people at home have decided that they are not going to sit down and take apartheid just lying down. They're saying No. Which is why there is such interest today in South Africa. It doesn't come from me, from anyone out here. It comes from the people from within. And I am saying thank you to my people, because that means that we will get there, and I shall go home. Recap WOODRUFF: Again, the major stories of this Friday. Panama's banks were closed today after a freeze on the flow of cash from the United States. Secretary of State Shultz brought what he called an ambitious plan for Middle East peace talks to Israel, Jordan, Syria and Egypt. The Postal Rate Commission recommended an increase to 25 cents for first class mail. And the unemployment rate dropped to the lowest in nine years. Good night,Robin. MacNEIL: Good night, Judy. That's the NewsHour tonight. We will be back on Monday night. Have a nice weekend. I'm Robert MacNeil. Good night.