The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

JIM LEHRER: Good evening, I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight: Our summary of the news; then, a look at the military situation on the ground in Iraq on this day when the U.S. Death toll went over 1,000; a report on the U.S. Presidential campaign's hot war of words over terrorism; a unique perspective on Russian president Putin's terrorism crisis; and a milestone conversation with conservative writer and editor WilliamF. Buckley.

NEWS SUMMARY

JIM LEHRER: U.S. forces tried to put new pressure on the insurgents in Iraq today. In Fallujah, warplanes dropped bombs that left a plume of smoke rising over the city. The U.S. Military said it targeted a headquarters that's been coordinating insurgent attacks. And in Samarra, the commander of the U.S. Army's 1st Infantry Division warned militants there to give up or face an all-out assault. But near Baghdad, two more U.S. Soldiers were killed today. That makes 1,005 American deaths since the war began, including three Defense Department civilians. Most of those killed were in combat. The others died in accidents and from other causes. We'll have more on the situation in Iraq right after this News Summary. Iraq dominated the U.S. Presidential campaign today. In Cincinnati, Democrat John Kerry said President Bush made costly miscalculations in going to war. He said those choices led to what the U.S. Faces now in Iraq.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: Rising instability, spreading violence, growing extremism, havens now created that weren't there for terrorists who weren't even in the country before we went there. I call this course a catastrophic choice that has cost us $200 billion because we went it alone, and we've paid an even more unbearable price in young American lives and the risks our soldiers take.

JIM LEHRER: Earlier, Secretary of State Powell defended U.S. policy in Iraq. On ABC, he asked Americans to "remember what the stakes are" as Iraq tries to move to democracy. And at a cabinet meeting, President Bush took note of the rising casualties. He said the fallen troops had given their lives in the war on terror.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: We're chasing down these killers overseas so we don't have to face them here at home. We're making good progress. Ultimately, we will prevail because liberty changes countries. Liberty changes the habits of people, liberty promotes peace. That's why we appreciate the sacrifice of the men and women who wear the uniform. They're serving in a great cause. We mourn every loss of life. We'll honor their memories by completing the mission.

JIM LEHRER: We'll have more from both campaigns on the terrorism issue later in the program. The president traveled today to Florida to view damage left by Hurricane Frances. He also signed a bill providing $2 billion in emergency relief. Thousands of people in Florida faced long lines for gas and ice, with no electricity, and heat in the 90s. And there was new concern about Hurricane Ivan. That powerful storm killed nine people in Grenada on Tuesday. It could be on a track toward the U.S. Mainland. The Russian government offered a $10 million reward for two Chechen rebel leaders today. That followed last week's bloody siege at a school in the South, near Chechnya. Late Tuesday, Russian officials released video of the siege taken by the militants. We have a report on those developments from Jonathan Miller of Independent Television News.

JONATHAN MILLER: In Beslan, they just keep on burying bodies. The temporary grave markers are stacked high. Medical workers are now trying to identify more than 100 bodies burned beyond recognition. It's a town inconsolable. In nearby Vladicavkaz, they demanded the resignation of the president of North Ossetia. He said he'd sack his government. Everyone is looking for someone to blame. "We want to know exactly who did this," the president said. The Russian army thinks it knows, and today pledged retaliation.

GEN. YURI BALUEVSKY (Translated): We will carry out all measures to liquidate terrorist bases as soon as possible, in any region of the world. It doesn't mean we'll launch nuclear strikes. Measures will be chosen according to the situation.

JONATHAN MILLER: The Russian prosecutor-general briefed a very sober-looking Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin this morning, on the latest findings and theories. The head of the gang, he said, shot one of the gunmen and later detonated explosive belts on two of the women by remote control. It was all about intimidating hostages and hostage-takers alike he said. The hostage-takers' terrifying video, though, raises as many questions as it answers. It's a carefully constructed set of powerful images designed to instill fear. The message is clear: We are prepared to kill women and children. Bombs hang precariously overhead and underfoot, one gunmen poised to detonate the trigger mechanism seemingly under its boot. Chechnya will be bracing itself for the threatened preemptive strikes, although it's hard to know what is left for Russia to attack in Grozny. The Chechen capital has been the focus of prolonged fighting in both Chechen wars.

JIM LEHRER: The Russians said today the official death toll from the school attack is now 329 dead, more than 700 wounded. Back in this country, Delta Air Lines will undergo a major restructuring as it tries to avoid bankruptcy. The company said today said it's eliminating up to 7,000 jobs, 10 percent of its workforce, over the next 18 months. Employees will also face wage reductions, and have to pay more for health insurance. Delta is the nation's third- largest airline. Federal Reserve Chairman Greenspan reported today the U.S. economy is picking up steam again. He told a House hearing that higher energy prices were mostly to blame for the "soft patch" earlier this year. But he said the latest reports indicate the recovery has gained new traction. On Wall Street today, the Dow Jones Industrial Average lost 29 points to close at 10313. The NASDAQ fell nearly eight points to close below 1851. An American space capsule carrying cosmic particles crashed today in the Utah desert. The "Genesis" capsule, the size of a refrigerator, orbited the sun for more than three years. It captured atoms to explain the origins of the solar system. Today, helicopters were supposed to snag a parachute as Genesis plunged back to Earth. But the chute failed to deploy, and the capsule crashed into the desert in Utah. Scientists said they still hope to recover some of the samples. And that's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on to: Where things stand today in Iraq; the presidential campaign's terrorism war; Russian President Putin's struggle with terrorism; and a conversation with William F. Buckley.

UPDATE STRUGGLE FOR CONTROL

JIM LEHRER: Iraq on the ground this day of more than 1,000 U.S. deaths. Ray Suarez goes first.

RAY SUAREZ: When the U.S. and its coalition partners handed over power to Iraqis in the end of June, many officials hoped attacks on American soldiers would decrease. But after a brief respite, insurgent attacks spiked, some aimed at the new Iraqi government, but many at the continuing presence of U.S. Troops. Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld yesterday said the spike in casualties showed the insurgents' desperation.

DONALD RUMSFELD: The progress in Iraq and Afghanistan has prompted a backlash, in effect, from those who hoped that at some point we might conclude that the pain and the cost of this fight isn't worth it. Well, our enemies have underestimated our country, our coalition. They have failed to understand the character of our people, and they certainly misread our commander-in-chief.

RAY SUAREZ: In March, a year after the war started, there were more than 500 attacks on U.S. soldiers. In April, May, June and July, there were more than 1,500. By August, the number topped 2,500. In addition to the 1,005 Americans killed in Iraq, the number of wounded now passed 7,000. Much of the violence has been in the Sunni Triangle. The cities largely under rebel control include Ramadi, Fallujah, Baquba and Samarra. The tactic used against insurgents in Fallujah has shifted to U.S. air attacks on suspected militant strongholds. (Gunfire) U.S. forces pulled out of that city after a three-week siege in April, following the brutal killing of four American contractors. In the South, fighting has spread. In Najaf last month, U.S. and Iraqi soldiers were involved in fierce street fighting. Militants loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr took over at the city's central mosque before eventually agreeing to a peace deal brokered by Iraq's top Shiite leader, Ali Al-Sistani. (Gunfire) And this week, fighting has flared in and around Baghdad's Sadr City, as U.S. forces engaged Sunni and Shiite insurgents in heavy fighting.

RAY SUAREZ: For more, now, we go to Baghdad, and to Rajiv Chandrasekaran of the Washington Post. Rajiv, welcome.

Did the ferocious fighting that took so many casualties over the weekend continue through today?

RAJIV CHANDRASEKARAN: Well, today instability did continue, although the violence ebbed a bit. We only have two American soldiers who died in the line of duty today, both in roadside bombing attacks in and near Baghdad. But other violence did continue. Trouble in the resistive town of Fallujah flared again, and U.S. warplanes pounded a suspected insurgent command-and-control center, according to the military, with a fairly spectacular aerial bombardment this morning, setting off some very dramatic images of buildings going up in flames and smoke, and other reports of attacks on U.S. convoys and Iraqi officials. In some, it's been a day like many others here -- a continuation of the violence, of the scattered attacks, of threats from both Sunni insurgents and Shiite militiamen. And of course, everybody here is still also following the case of the two Italian non-governmental aide workers who were kidnapped in a home invasion attack yesterday. Their fate is still not known, although a radical Islamist group has claimed credit today for their capture, and no specific demands have yet been issued for their release.

RAY SUAREZ: I want to get to both those things very briefly: First, the people who are doing the uprising. Is the U.S. Military working on the assumption that this new set of assaults is in any way coordinated?

RAJIV CHANDRASEKARAN: Well, there is a degree of coordination that is taking place within the Sunni insurgency. As yet, we don't see great signs of coordination between those insurgents and the militiamen loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The Shiite militiamen have primarily confined their activity in the Baghdad area to a large slum of about 2.5 million people, known as Sadr City. The Sunni insurgency is showing signs of coordination, and it's coordination between foreign militants and indigenous militants, and coordination between Islamists and former members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party. One interesting point to note: Yesterday, I was talking to some residents of the town of Samarra. Samarra is one of these many no- go zones now. There are no U.S. troops in there. They're sort of quartered on the edges of town, and in the center are bands of insurgents who have taken over the town, have co-opted the local police. And what some of these residents are saying is that they're starting to see signs that the Baathist insurgents are working very closely with the hard-line Islamist insurgents. The Islamist insurgents, who as recently as a month ago were demanding that women wear head scarves and were castigating men for wearing blue jeans, now have sort of stopped doing that because of their new alliance with the Baathists, and the Baathists who come from a more secular tradition for whom such rules don't necessarily apply. And to people in town, this is a clear sign that there is now a marriage between these two groups in Samarra. And there is a belief along U.S. military intelligence officials that similar marriages are under way in cities like Fallujah and Ramadi, in much of the western part of this country which remains still in the throes of violence, Ray.

RAY SUAREZ: And briefly to the kidnapped aide workers. Have those kidnappings been claimed by any group or another, and are these people who are familiar to authorities from previous kidnappings of foreigners?

RAJIV CHANDRASEKARAN: Well, at this point it's... there's no confirmation as to the group that has taken them. All of these, or many of the foreigners who have been kidnapped are believed to have been at times perhaps even taken by criminal elements, who then sell them up the line to a shadowy network of Islamist militants. Many of these militant groups are loyal to a man by the name of Abu Musab Zarqawi, who is one of the most-wanted men here in Iraq by U.S. forces. And he is believed to have been orchestrating a string of car bombings and kidnappings. And so, there's a whole sort of underworld of these groups, and it's hard to tell exactly who is in possession of the two Italians. The same goes for two French journalists who were kidnapped now almost two weeks ago; their fate still unknown, despite a flurry of optimistic signals a week ago that they might be released -- still no significant movement in that case.

RAY SUAREZ: Rajiv Chandrasekaran of the Washington Post, thanks for joining us.

RAJIV CHANDRASEKARAN: Pleasure to talk to you, Ray.

JIM LEHRER: Margaret Warner has more.

MARGARET WARNER: For an assessment of what hitting the "1,000 U.S. fatalities" figure says about conditions in Iraq, we turn to: Retired Marine Corps Lieutenant General Bernard Trainor, an adjunct senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, and co-author of "The Generals' War," a book about the 1991 Gulf War; and retired Air Force Colonel Sam Gardiner, who teaches military operations and planning, and is a longtime consultant to the Defense Department.

Welcome, gentlemen.

What do these new figures say, Gen. Trainor, about the state of play, the balance between U.S. forces and the insurgency? I mean, we heard Secretary Rumsfeld say, "well, it's a sign of the progress the U.S. Is making and they're desperate." Is it that, or is it a sign of rising instability?

LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR: Well, I think, Margaret, that anybody that tries to put a good face on this situation-- that they're desperate-- I think that they're just whistling in the dark. This insurgency is going on, it's growing, it certainly has no indications of being an act of desperation at all. And the 1,000-casualty mark, you know, it's a milestone. It has a psychological effect, and obviously is going to have some partisan political interest. But of itself, you know, it's somewhat irrelevant. You know, you don't want to see anybody on our side killed to begin with. But, you know, compared to previous wars, compared to Vietnam, Korea and certainly World War II, the casualties-- as horrendous and hideous as they are-- are, relatively speaking, low. But still, the figure 1,000, that's shocking. But it's well to remember what Stalin once said: "One death is a tragedy. A thousand deaths is statistic." There's a certain element of that. I think the American people are starting to become hardened to the reality of this war.

MARGARET WARNER: What do you think it says about the state of play over there?

COL. SAM GARDINER: Well, the secretary of defense is fond of measures of merit. I think --

MARGARET WARNER: Measures of merit?

COL. SAM GARDINER: Of how we're doing, how do we measure this Ray mentioned some of the numbers in terms of attacks per month. But if you look at, for example, the number of attacks per day, last October it was around 20. At the hand-off, it was 35. This month it was 87 -- numbers of attacks on the oil pipeline -- January and February, less than five; June, 16; August, 20; September, high already. The numbers aren't good. The numbers show that the insurgency is getting worse. We seem to have turned the corner, and it's getting worse.

MARGARET WARNER: What's fueling it?

COL. SAM GARDINER: There probably are a number of things, Margaret. One of them is we did some bad things. We made some enemies. The way we treated people in prison, knocking down doors. We insulted them as part of the hard line earlier. That's first. The second thing is there are people now in Iraq from outside. The Iranians are involved, people are coming in from Syria, so that the insurgency is being fueled from the outside. I must say, I saw a picture from Baghdad yesterday in Sadr City of the young man with a rocket- propelled grenade. It was brand new. I've never seen that... them carrying brand-new, rocket- propelled grenades. There's something going on here other than that guy had that in his closet.

MARGARET WARNER: Why, Gen. Trainor, why do U.S. troops remain so vulnerable? You know, after the hand-over June 30, U.S. commanders say we're going to lower our visibility. Our troops are not going to be as visible during the day, our flights, and so on -- I mean, why are U.S. troops still such a target-- and I don't know if you say an easy target, but certainly a frequent target?

LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR: Not easy targets, but if you have to supply and replenish various units, you have to travel from "a" to "b." It's pretty easy for particularly a suicide bomber. Let's take the case of the seven marines that were killed the day before yesterday. It was a suicide bomber that did it. It's the same sort of thing that happens in Israel with the Palestinians. It's very difficult to protect yourself against somebody who is going... there's no deterrent that works against somebody who is willing to give up his life. So they're vulnerable in the sense of the psychological things that drive the terrorists.

MARGARET WARNER: General, Secretary Rumsfeld said he also thought they were becoming-- the insurgents-- more sophisticated. Do you see that?

LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR: There's no question about that. You know, when you look back a year ago, the insurgency was just getting going. It was very inept. They would fire some AK-47s or RPGs. And then they started to get sophisticated with I.EDs, the improvised explosive devices, and so forth. But now they have reached a degree of sophistication, not only in terms of their weaponry, but also in the coordination of their activities, settingoff a bomb here, and when the troops come up to it, they'll set off another bomb and get the follow-on forces. Yeah, they're learning. Theyre learning.

MARGARET WARNER: Col. Gardiner, yesterday at this press conference that Secretary Rumsfeld and General Myers had they also acknowledged publicly that essentially the U.S. has ceded control of this whole... many cities in the central area to the insurgents, Sunni insurgents and what's more that they wouldn't put a date or a time or when that might turn itself around. One, do you think it's wise to sort of admit and accept that fact publicly?

COL. SAM GARDINER: Well, you know, we sort of have an end date that's forcing us to look at that problem, which is the election in Iraq.

MARGARET WARNER: In January.

COL. SAM GARDINER: In January. If we're going to do something about those cities, and if we're going to do it the way we heard General Myers and the secretary of defense say, which is using Iraqi

MARGARET WARNER: Right.

COL. SAM GARDINER: -- we have got to begin to do that. I mean, we can't wait and do all of these simultaneously in December. You've got to begin to take them one at a time with trained Iraqi units. But we don't seem to yet have those trained Iraqi units to do it.

MARGARET WARNER: General, do you think it was a mistake, in retrospect, back in April, to not go ahead and essentially finish the operation in Fallujah, to step back and let the local figures take charge?

LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR: That's interesting, Margaret. We were on the verge of taking down Fallujah and taking down the terrorists that were in there and the insurgents. Then all of a sudden, they called it off. Why? Because there was this outrage and there was this concern of civilian casualties. So they made the best of a bad situation and said, "Okay, we'll let them kind of function for themselves."

MARGARET WARNER: And let the local folks...

LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR: That's right. They got the promises to do that. That turned out to be wrong. So if you would say, "well, if we had gone ahead, would things be better?" Well, I don't know. Certainly, there would have been outrage about how significant that would have been. But we do know by not going in there we have not solved the problem. It's worse now than it was then.

MARGARET WARNER: And now we have all these fortified enclaves in that area.

LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR: Right; which leads you to believe that at some point, somebody is going to have to do something about them -- particularly before the elections. The goal is to drive the Americans out, and within that there's the power struggle within the country itself. And so what is going to happen? It would seem to me that the interim president is taking the line that we will negotiate but we will also use the heavy hand. But I'm with Sam. I mean, there's no indication that we have seen that you can depend upon the Iraqi forces to do the job, so the heavy lifting is again going to fall on the Americans with whatever the fallout consequences may be.

MARGARET WARNER: What about the Iraqi element in a larger sense, Col. Gardiner? Do you think we have a situation where essentially we have the U.S. forces --we have the Iraqi security forces who are outgunned by a small but determined insurgency, or do you think this kind of thing couldn't persist without a kind of broader political or social support of some kind from the Iraqi public?

COL. SAM GARDINER: I think there's a degree of support. I mean, we've said all along, and we've talked about it here, about how that it's amazing thatthese people operate inside of Iraq without our knowing about it enough to target them. I must say that the people I talk to who know about what's going on inside, the diplomats, the spies and the military people, say we're never going to have stability there until the Americans get out. We are causing much of this.

MARGARET WARNER: By our very presence.

COL. SAM GARDINER: By our very presence. It's one of those things where we're really on the horns of a dilemma because... one of the reasons for not going in Fallujah was we were worried about making that worse.

MARGARET WARNER: So that brings us really to the final thing I want to ask you both about: Are there tactical or strategic things that the U.S. forces could do there, while there, to reduce these fatalities, these U.S. fatalities, or is the fix only going to be leaving or setting a timetable for leaving?

LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR: Of course there are a lot of technical things coming along that will assist us on this. You know, the best you can do with terrorist acts that we see is to manage them. You're never going to stop them. But the key is to get two fronts. One, the Iraqi security forces to be able and confident enough to be able to take some action, to return stability. And number two, the business of cutting deals with... by the Iraqis themselves. It has to be an Iraqi solution, primarily a political solution within their own midst.

MARGARET WARNER: You're saying in the meantime this is about the level of deaths-- I mean, they go up and down-- of U.S. deaths that we can expect.

LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR: Yes. We see the statistics going up. But that doesn't deal with the intensity of each of those events. And that's somewhat of an erratic sort of line. But the thing is you're not going to stop them. You're only going to be able to manage them the best you can. You're still going to take the casualties.

MARGARET WARNER: What's your view of the fix for this?

COL. SAM GARDINER: The fix I think the administration has picked, which is to get it off of the newspapers. The strategic communications objectives right now, as I read them, are to take this off of the radar screen of the American people. In July, you can... we were seeing roughly 250,000 articles in the world press per day about this. It's now down to 150.

MARGARET WARNER: What about the fix on the ground?

COL. SAM GARDINER: There is no fix on the ground. As one goes into a situation like this, every decision you make not to do something gives up a strategic option. We've given up lots of them-- not relying on the army, not getting rid of the militia. When you get down to the point we are now, you're into tactical defense. Let's not have casualties. Let's hope this thing somehow finds a solution. I don't hear anybody with a solution.

MARGARET WARNER: All right. Col. Gardiner, Gen. Trainor, thank you both.

LT. GEN. BERNARD TRAINOR: Thank you, Margaret.

JIM LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight: Terrorism and the U.S. presidential campaign; terrorism and the presidency in Russia; and a chat with William F. Buckley.

FOCUS WAR OF WORDS

JIM LEHRER: Kwame Holman has our U.S. campaign terrorism story.

KWAME HOLMAN: The war of words on the campaign trail has gotten harsher this week. Yesterday in Des Moines, Iowa, Vice President Cheney warned a town hall audience of an increased threat of terrorism if John Kerry is elected.

VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, that we make the right choice. Because if we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we will get hit again, and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States, and then we will fall back into the pre- 9/11 mindset, if you will.

KWAME HOLMAN: It was John Kerry's running mate, John Edwards, who fired back at Cheney today.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS: He said when you go to the polls and vote in November, if you don't vote for them, for Bush and Cheney, and they lose, and then when, or if, another terrorist attack occurs, it's the responsibility of the American people that it happened. Now let me just say first this statement by the vice president of the United States was intended to divide us. It was calculated to divide us on an issue of safety and security for the American people. It's wrong and it's un-American.

KWAME HOLMAN: And at the U.S. Capitol, the presidential campaign rhetoric spilled onto the floor of the House of Representatives. But it was only Democrats who addressed the vice president's statement. Georgia's John Lewis:

REP. JOHN LEWIS: This administration would say anything, it would do anything, to stay in power. They would deceive, they will mislead; they will steal. They will note tell the truth. That should send righteous indignation all across America in the media. President of the United States is preaching the politics of fear. He is trying to scare the American people.

KWAME HOLMAN: On the Senate side, Majority Leader Bill Frist said he didn't know the context of the vice president's remarks. But in an off-camera statement to reporters, said of President Bush: He is tough when it comes to terrorism, he will not compromise when it comes to terrorism, and it is crystal clear where he stands. I believe he, in using that definition of the commander in chief, would be stronger than John Kerry. At today's White House meeting with congressional leaders, the president made no comment about Cheney's remarks, and did not take press questions. White House spokesman Scott McClellan had this statement: There are differences in how the two candidates approach the war on terror. Thats what the vice president was talking about in his remarks.

(Applause)

SEN. JOHN KERRY: Thank you so much.

KWAME HOLMAN: John Kerry himself did not mention the vice president when he spoke at an Ohio rally this morning, but he continued his own assault on President Bush.

SEN. JOHN KERRY: I would not have made the wrong choices that are now forcing us to pay nearly the entire cost of this war, $200 billion that we're not investing in education and health care, job creation here at home; $200 billion for going it alone in Iraq, that's the wrong choice. That's the wrong direction and that's the wrong leadership for America.

(Cheers and applause)

KWAME HOLMAN: Repeating the word "wrong" to describe the Bush decision on Iraq and other issues is a tactic John Kerry began using just this week. President Bush picked up on it yesterday during an appearance in Columbia, Missouri, and accused Kerry of now adopting the anti-war position of former presidential candidate Howard Dean.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: In the last two days, he woke up with yet another new position, and this one isn't even his own. (Laughter) It's the one of Howard Dean. He even used the same words Howard Dean did back when he supposedly disagreed with him. Look, no matter how many times my opponent flip-flops, we were right to make America safer by removing Saddam Hussein from power. (Cheers and applause)

KWAME HOLMAN: President Bush held no campaign appearances today. He met with emergency workers in hurricane-damaged Florida, and will resume campaigning tomorrow in Pennsylvania. John Kerry held a late-afternoon event in Rochester, Minnesota, and moves on to Iowa tomorrow.

FOCUS FIGHTING TERRORISM

JIM LEHRER: Now to Gwen Ifill for more on Russias war on terrorism.

GWEN IFILL: When the latest video of the Beslan School siege hit the Russian airwaves last night...showing the crowded gymnasium rigged with explosives...it stoked an already growing public anger.

Yesterday in Moscow, tens of thousands of people rallied at the Kremlin against terrorism, the protesters claiming solidarity with victims of the Beslan massacre.

They also expressed anger over how the Kremlin has handled its years-long war with the breakaway republic of Chechnya.

PROTESTOR (translated): If it weren't for the political situation in our country there would be no terrorism.

GWEN IFILL: Over the weekend, Russian government officials admitted they lied during the standoff about the scale of the crisis -- including the number of hostages.

The bloody school siege was only the latest in a series of attacks linked to the ongoing violence between Russia and separatists in the troubled Caucasus region.

In October 2002, Chechen rebels took 900 hostages in a Moscow theater.

Before storming the building, Russian authorities pumped in a nerve gas that caused almost all of the 129 hostage deaths; 41 of the hostage-takers also died.

In February of this year, 39 people were killed when a suicide bomb blast tore through a crowded Moscow subway train.

Chechen militants have also been implicated in the twin mid-air explosions that downed two Russian jetliners in late August. Ninety people were killed.

And only a week later -- and just one day before the Beslan siege -- 10 more people were killed in an apparent suicide bombing outside a busy Moscow subway station

But the Beslan School attack was the deadliest of Russian President Vladimir Putin's presidency, yet he has said little publicly since his first address to the Russian people last weekend.

PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN (translated): What happened was a crime inhuman and unprecedented in its cruelty. And it is not a challenge to the president, to the parliament or government. it is a challenge to the whole of Russia, to all of our people. It is an attack on our country by terrorists.

GWEN IFILL: On Monday, he expanded on that theme in an extended conversation with western journalists and academics meeting at his country residence.

In his remarks, Putin rejected calls from western governments for negotiations with Chechen rebels.

Why don't you just meet Osama bin Laden, invite him to Brussels or to the White House and engage in talks, he said, ask him what he wants and give it to him so that he leaves you in peace?"

GWEN IFILL: U.S. officials have said Moscow should pursue a political settlement in Chechnya.

GWEN IFILL: Vladimir Putin spoke and took questions for more than three hours Monday night. Among those in the room was Toby Gati, a former assistant secretary of state in the Clinton administration; she now advises Russian and American business clients for a Washington law firm.

Welcome, Ms. Gati. Tell us, how did this meeting, this kind of extraordinary meeting with Vladimir Putin come to be.

TOBY GATI: A group of us were in Moscow, in Russia, for discussions with Russians on Russia's future. It was planned quite a bit in advance. When we saw that a meeting with Putin was on the schedule, we hoped it would happen. And then when the events in Beslan came about, the hostage- taking, we didn't think it would. But the president came in and he said, "This isn't the best time for me, but I owe it to you to answer your questions." He opened it up for three-and-a- half hours of every question you could think of.

GWEN IFILL: What was the overall thrust of his remarks to you?

TOBY GATI: His overall thrust was Russia was under attack. The first question was about Chechnya, and then it went to different subjects. The last question was on Chechnya, and I think that was kind of appropriate because that's what our minds were focused on, but his tone was Russia is going to meet this challenge. And he personally is going to take charge. And I got the sense that after a couple of days where events had moved out of control, where people got the sense of a state in chaos, this was his effort to say to foreigners and through our meeting to Russians that he knew mistakes had been made. He went back as far as the first Chechen war and said maybe he wouldn't have done it that way. He talked about the Soviet Union, as a lot of people do, with nostalgia, but also realizing that they had been the ones talking about world revolution in their time during the Soviet period and went on to say, "you in the West should understand there's a domino theory here in the Caucasus, and if Chechnya goes and the Caucasus go, your security is at threat not just Russia; Russia is on the front line."

GWEN IFILL: How unusual was it for him to admit that there were mistakes in the prosecution of the Chechen conflict?

TOBY GATI: Well, he admitted quite a few mistakes. One of our participants said something about having been in St. Petersburg and how great it was. He said, yeah, you talked to people who think its great, it's not so great if you talk to some other people. I think it was unusual, but it would be hard at that moment not to admit that mistakes had been made. He didn't say that he had made any mistakes. He acknowledged that the state he inherited when the Soviet Union collapsed things were not being done well. And you could get a sense of frustration and perhaps anger at the people he had appointed who really had not handled this situation well.

GWEN IFILL: But not mistakes, to be clear, about the handling of the situation at the school in particular, and the way that Russian forces acted or didn't act?

TOBY GATI: No, he went out of his way to praise Russian forces and say they put their lives on the line to save the children. And you can see in the photographs that was actually true at times. He's very convinced that his policy on Chechnya is a right one, a Chechenization handing over security eventually that you can't negotiate with these people. If he could listen to this broadcast he would be profoundly upset to hear people talking about rebels and hostage-takers.

GWEN IFILL: What's wrong with that?

TOBY GATI: The word they use is "terrorist." They don't regard these as people who have any cause other than -- it's not Chechen independence. He said, "We tried to do that. I did everything I could." And the years between the first and second Chechen war were chaotic. And he would not acknowledge that he should continue with negotiations with terrorists.

GWEN IFILL: Is this use of the term "terrorists" to describe the conflict there, did this predate the U.S.-led war on terror, or is it something that he has now made common cause with President Bush on?

TOBY GATI: Well, he has made common cause with Bush on 9/11. But even before 9/11 they were talking about the Chechen problem as one that wasn't just involving the separatists and the nationalists, but people who were interested in destroying the north Caucasus. And I must say that is their view. A lot of people believe it's the Russian policies that of course have caused the destabilization. But I think his words for President Bush were extremely complimentary. I actually asked the question about the degree of support in his country for Bush versus Kerry. He said, "Yes, it may be true that fewer Russians would support Bush, but among those Russians were a few quite influential ones." And you got the feeling that he felt there was a meeting of minds with Bush.

GWEN IFILL: Excuse me. But it sounded from the reports from the meeting that he also was reasonably critical about the West and about their ideas, their suggestions, for instance, that there should be any negotiation at all with Chechens, with Chechen leaders.

TOBY GATI: He was extremely critical. But he blamed it on mid-level people in the administration. He didn't mention countries, but for all of us, all of us who are experts on Russia understood that it was aimed at the United States and at Britain, both of whom have given asylum to prominent Chechen past leaders.

GWEN IFILL: What was his tone overall? Did he seem sorrowful? Did he seem tired? I mean, was he willing to take any question? Did he seem combative?

TOBY GATI: Took any question. He was not combative. We, after a while, thought, "my God, he's president. What time does he get up in the morning?" We're awfully tired. It was midnight before we were done. No, I got the sense that he really felt he had to explain what was happening, that this was Russia's crucial hour, and that the people in the West should understand the challenge that Russia faced.

GWEN IFILL: So what does he say is at the root of the conflict which is, we think, spurring all these various series of attacks?

TOBY GATI: Well, the first thing he'll say is that he inherited a state, the collapse of the Soviet Union, which was in chaos, and the structures were not adequate for the new state, the Russian federation. That would be the first thing you would hear Putin say. The second thing is that the Chechen, if it was ever a separatist movement, has been hijacked by international terrorism. And what he wants to put Russia back in the front of the war on terrorism, and make it clear that other countries' support for that is important. He doesn't like double standards, and he doesn't like what he called "Cold War mentality" meaning the weaker Russia is the better.

GWEN IFILL: Did he also allude to the notion that the U.S.-led war on terror or the war in Iraq may have brought terrorism to his doorstep?

TOBY GATI: Well, one of the other people we met with said that people from 40 countries had been killed in Chechnya but never anybody who had come from Iraq. And they did... he did not speak so much about what had happened. In a way what he was saying, as the message, was, "Yes, we disagreed with President Bush and the West, but now our task is to normalize the situation in Iraq and do what we can," which would not include military help, but educational or medical or humanitarian assistance, that kind of thing. Iraq was not his problem at the moment. That was a war very far away. You could tell it was not number one on his agenda.

GWEN IFILL: But when he was trying to describe the situation he believes Russia to be in right now he also made parallels to the U.S. Electoral College.

TOBY GATI: Yes, he did. You know, he said every country has to have institutions that correspond to its level of development. He said, "Well,you know, some people say you don't have press freedom, you know, how could it be press freedom if Murdoch owns so many newspapers?" Or whatever. He said, "Well, you have system where you have your electoral system." Now, is that really democracy? So what he has is, you know, sometimes you wonder the expression a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. He knows enough about the United States to be able to talk about it. But his perception of the way our country functions and what we do... for example, he said the 9/11 report was, well, you know, of course before an election you had this. It's really not that serious a document -- that kind of thing. But I really think he believes that the war on terrorism is something he can find common cause with the United States at least, perhaps less with the Europeans.

GWEN IFILL: Is there even a debate in Russia like there is here about the cost of freedom versus security in these kinds of situations?

TOBY GATI: Absolutely. But Russians at this moment will choose security any time. For them, the word freedom and democracy is often a synonym unfortunately for chaos, the chaos of the 1990s and their personal security there are a lot of people who are afraid to send their children to school, to get on the subways, and you really do have the feeling they're people united by fear. And I think Putin's aim is to change that and say we'd be united by a desire to fight against fear and not be united by being a fearful country. That's not our history.

GWEN IFILL: Sounds like a fascinating evening, Toby Gati.

TOBY GATI: It was.

GWEN IFILL: Thank you very much for telling us all about it.

TOBY GATI: Thank you.

FOCUS MILES GONE BY

JIM LEHRER: Finally tonight, a conversation with William F. Buckley about the latest chapter in his long life story. Media correspondent Terence Smith is in charge.

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: This young guy, 20 years old...

TERENCE SMITH: William F. Buckley, Jr., describes himself as an adventurer. At 78, the noted conservative is taking stock of his fashions as he strolls the lawn of his home on the shore of Long Island Sound. His recently released literary autobiography, "Miles Gone By," illuminates his love of family, music, sailing, skiing, wine and, of course, language and politics. For over 30 years, he was the host of public television's Firing Line, the longest- running program in TV history with the same host.

EDWIN FEULNER, JR., The Heritage Foundation: This evening we honor a man who is universally recognized as the polysyllabic patriarch of American conservatism: William F. Buckley, Jr. ( Applause )

TERENCE SMITH: The applause has been coming, as one by one he has given up the principal pre-occupations of his life: Firing Line; public speaking; and most importantly, after nearly half a century, his role as founder and editor of the National Review magazine, the bible of modern conservatism. Buckley's son, Christopher, also a writer, paid tribute to him at a Heritage Foundation awards ceremony a few years ago.

CHRISTOPHER BUCKLEY, Writer: Like his father, he grew up devout, risk-taking, and occasionally supporting the losing side. Though, ultimately, as intellectual godfather to the movement that produced the election of Ronald Reagan, I'd say he ended up a rather big winner.

TERENCE SMITH: The senior Buckley is also the author of 45 books. Bound in leather, Buckley's volumes fill a bookshelf in his Stanford, Connecticut home.

TERENCE SMITH: Your 45th book? How can anyone write 45 books?

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: Well, the thing to do is to write one every year. I retreat to Switzerland every year and divest myself, to the extent possible, of other distractions other than skiing.

TERENCE SMITH: Yeah.

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: And then I write 1,500 words a day, and that oddly enough adds up to a book.

TERENCE SMITH: Let's talk about American politics today. How does it strike you?

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: Well, it strikes me as curious. I say "curious" because it's hard for me to understand how deeply felt the antagonism is for the president. By the way, he's not a personal friend of mine, but it's hard to understand how people get so worked up about him. If he was somebody however in a sense attractive-- I think of Charles de Gaulle... there's a sense that if Charles de Gaulle is a figure in town, he occupies all the space. But George Bush doesn't. So how to understand that requires a penetration I haven't achieved, but it's one of the things that makes this particular year remarkable.

TERENCE SMITH: What about the state of American political discourse? It seems to --many people that have observed to be more polarized and more bitter.

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: Well... it's distinctive. But I don't think that the polarization is as sharp as it was 40 years ago, in part because the socialist alternative is substantially rejected. Forty years ago, fifty years ago, the question was whether to go in the direction of a completely centripitalized society, or to preserve the free-market alternative. That fight, it seems to me, has been, in theory, won. The conservatives won that fight.

TERENCE SMITH: Do you feel you can take some credit for the outcome?

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: Well, certainly, naturally, you can. Yeah, I suppose I can. The conservatism that I identified myself with was an anti-communist, anti-socialist. And the principal lodestone of that was "national review" magazine, which I founded and served as editor. So, in that sense, you're correct. Reagan said that he got his inspiration from National Review, words I love to hear. I hope they survive this broadcast. And Goldwater said the same thing.

TERENCE SMITH: That conservative movement that you were talking about over the last 40 years, and played a role in, what's its state of health today?

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: Well, it is a... fragmentary. The conservative movement has divisions within it which keep any single one of them from being absolutely dominant. There are the neo-cons who... neo-Wilsonians. There are the libertarians, who tend to lead rather sheltered lives. There are sort of people in between.

TERENCE SMITH: There's another element in the movement, of course, that's much written and talked about now, which is the Christian conservative movement.

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: Yes, of course.

TERENCE SMITH: Have they taken it over?

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: That's important. No, they certainly haven't. But certain people in politics feel that in order to engage in politics it's by no means necessary to forget that you also believe in religion. And to the extent that religion is emphasized, it becomes irksome for people who are skeptical about religion, or even hostile to it. Every time Jimmy Carter said grace or President Bush mentions it, there are certain people who wince.

TERENCE SMITH: Do you?

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: No, not at all. I like to think of myself primarily as a Christian. That's what I seek to be. And when you consider the extent to which people feel that Christianity and politics should be completely separate, I think that's a terrible idea because the principal animus for a harmonious polity, I think, is religious.

TERENCE SMITH: Buckley enjoys bringing new blood into the conservative ranks. He has appointed Austin Bramwell, 2000 graduate of his alma mater, Yale University, to help run National Review.

AAUSTIN BRAMWELL, National Review: This did he awaken their minds to the possibility that liberalism is not the philosphia ultima, but just another item in the available catalogue of modern ideologies. Many of Buckley's other qualities are equally well- known-- his wit, grace, prolificacy, his intellectual ecumenism and his joie de vivre.

TERENCE SMITH: That joie de vivre plays out on his harpsichord, and in his office, where he still writes a twice-weekly syndicated column. The scene of a young Buckley surrounded by books in this photo doesn't look much different from his work environment today. He's drafting another novel scheduled to be published early next year.

TERENCE SMITH: Do you still feel you have a lot to say.

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: I think you have a lot to listen to. (Laughs) Sure. I've never found a day in which I write a column-- as recently as three hours ago-- in which I felt there was nothing to say because there's something always there to stimulate you.

TERENCE SMITH: Thank you very much.

WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY, JR.: Nice to talk to you.

RECAP

JIM LEHRER: Again, the major developments of this day: In Iraq, U.S. planes again bombed targets in Fallujah. And two more U.S. Soldiers were killed near Baghdad. That raises the total number of American deaths in Iraq to 1,005. President Bush signed a bill providing $2 billion in emergency aid for the state of Florida, after Hurricane Frances. And Russia offered a $10 million reward for two Chechen rebel leaders, following last week's bloody siege at a school. We'll see you online, and again here tomorrow evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you, and good night.