The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

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good evening i'm jim lehrer welcome to the special saturday war edition of the newshour more heavy bombing of baghdad a suicide bombing against us troops all at these and the other major developments of the day john burns of the new york times in baghdad a look at the iraqi resistance to training reports on urban warfare and on battlefield medicine us military commentary from retired colonel slang and worn major funding for the news hour with jim lehrer is provided by the archer daniels midland company espy's see communications the corporation for public broadcasting and by viewers like you thank you as iraqi troops outside baghdad were blasted again iraqis used a new kind of attack that killed more americans ray suarez has our war news roundup a suicide bomber killed

four us soldiers in the first such attack of the war it happened near the city of not just were elements of the us army's third infantry division are deployed why attack came when a rocky posing as a taxi driver pulled up to a civilian checkpoints manned by us soldiers army colonel will grimsley middle of the roadblock of the growing market arabic that roadblock after are back in the mall the other road by putting little gardening of ongoing until in the portal in baghdad iraqi vice president describe the attacker as a soldier and a martyr they killed five americans in the storage tanks and personnel carriers this officer his name as lieutenant ali g a farm was so the mood of the money and the vice president promised more suicide

attacks saying they were justified by the overwhelming military advantage of the invading forces us and british soldiers continue to face the daunting task of distinguishing civilians from fighters despite today's attack will grimsley says us battlefield tactics are unchanged we know how to do this and we've been doing it very well what i think the former members would we continue what for the everly or a bacchanal south of ny jaffe is the river junction nassirian with the pentagon confirmed that four bodies found in a shallow grave of those of us soldiers deployed a lot american troops have a pause to remember their fallen comrades there've been multiple ambushes in the syria along the us supply line to forces outside baghdad separately the bodies of the first british soldiers to die in the war arrived in oxford sure in wind and were greeted with a solemn ceremony

several of the us and british casualties of come from coordinated a rocky attacks along supply lines and they can be expected to continue we're operating behind enemy lines and we are destroying their convoys and capturing their soldiers the guerrilla tactics thousand coalition troops to make some adjustments says british forces spokesman how lockwood at the end of the day but we've encountered this year something slightly different for apparently forces out which would enable and pray for the limited people we have to expect the unexpected we have contingency plans would set forces in camped outside baghdad are now taking a four to six day pause in their advance on the capital as they wait for supplies to arrive from the south there are reports the move is being rationed to the troops and fuel use is restricted still at central command in qatar major general victor ran you are said cause does not mean

delay there's no pause on the battlefield because you see a particular formation not moving on a day does not mean there's a pause on the battlefield at the same time that we're conducting our air operations throughout the battlefield we conduct artillery waves we conduct a deep attacks like we did last night we conduct long range patrols in order to fix and identify where in the formations maybe there was no pause in the basra area the strategic city to the south it's been british marines rated the homes of suspected militia men from saddam hussein's they're taking several present what one woman thank you to the site of the soldiers central command showed the results of a satellite guided missile attack against bath party headquarters in basra two hundred iraqis were believed to have been inside will also in the basra area british troops said they secured

additional oil fields and destroy missions taken from fighters loyal to saddam hussein meanwhile in baghdad the washington post reports the us special forces are in the city looking to kill members of saddam's inner circle the article says covert operators want a fire the silver bullet that will kill hussein and bring down his government and in baghdad today residents mourn the estimated sixty to victims of a blast at what used to be a neighborhood market the locals suspect a us attack us commanders said they couldn't confirm that residents of baghdad also turned out to protest the us and british air campaign which did this damage to iraq's information ministry local officials said the us motive was to keep civilian deaths from being publicized all that vital vibrant given

permission they can move from three of the cool event showing love that that's what love by picture of movies television networks and all the rockets all that's you this is the situation for them pj attack helicopters of the one hundred first airborne division have joined the baghdad campaign firing on suspected republican guard positions the baghdad bombings including hits by us tomahawk missiles at us businesses some of tomahawks have gone astray landing an uninhabited parts of saudi arabia on the way to iraq we did have a number of key land missiles that are reported

down in their territory that and so we have agreed with them to conduct a review of those wants procedures and make sure that we don't have a systems problem that work that we might have been aware of one of the widest parts of the us led campaign has been in western iraq today the pentagon released footage of us army rangers they're showing what they described as attacks on iraqi commando raid and on the northern front us warplanes struck again that iraqi forces and kurdish fighters advanced toward a key city without firing a shot we have a report from julian men human independent television news this morning kurdish troops levels through some of the twenty eight miles of territory which the iraqi army has suddenly abandoned know the key oil city of kirkuk we pass small groups of kurdish

soldiers was starting to move and have our destination was a complex which the iraqis are set to have used for chemical warfare training but as we felt that there was a violent explosion half the iraqi dinars had fired an artillery shell direct mail truck convoy and journalist from half a dozen television companies made a dash for safety he and then thought out ourselves we've now taken refuge in an abandoned iraqi army base about a mile from the village where we were shell and shell fire has not stopped we're from where we are now we can look down towards the city of kirkuk and see plumes of smoke rising that a sign that the us air force appears once again to be at work finally have the chance to express their hatred of saw them available much closer to their dream of seizing get go they're under american pressure not to advance because doing so would set off a crisis with neighboring turkey for now

the oil fields of kirkuk remain in saddam's hands tantalizingly out of reach and there are reports tonight that american warplanes are now flying combat missions from a rocky soil a ten war talk's known as tank busters have begun taking off from a captured a rocky air base south of baghdad jim thanks ray also today run dismiss us claims it is meddling in the war yesterday defense secretary rumsfeld said iranian backed militias have returned to a rack it warned they would be treated as combatants if they interfere with us forces iran said today those claims are baseless and said it would not allow military activities on its border with the iraqi's now are daily reports from baghdad ray suarez talk to john burns of the new york times earlier this evening and john burns welcome what kind of day was saturday in baghdad

well the end of the day i think maybe it will be making news three man regime guitar it in ramadan feeling in the hotel where we get less or a news conference oregon voters were the forerunner of hundreds of thousands of people like a lot of erotic important that americans and britains in uniform about anybody or and right across europe are they writing one argument that he uses to justify that kind of warfare well in advance to give everyone to say the vision of iraq's military weakness of events in effect but we know we probably been

a man or for or their water and you think that that i weighed one hundred and thirty people do you think we are i can wait until we encounter that kind weapon on your own native all weekend to turn out of the bones of a hit it's a big you know five hundred people more one time that i'm sure the operations while the employees of the world maybe it will be able to kill five thousand out of the bravado of this but the fact is critical to their homes and battalions her view of the world what about the very people that

are now orphans and contract dr wolfe freud well we think of the enormous hotel seeing young arabs arriving here and in europe have to have more of them let me take you know they are extremely hostile though there are finally people are male when we don't know that the oil is surprising to me that in this war he pretends witness reported was going to columbus then there is a great web site called her and we can have in war you've used the term my little bit of bravado to talk about tiger yassin ramadan of that you've written a lovely general sultan hashem as a serious military man whose statements have less of the year the politics in them if you combine these statements that these officers have made about what iraq has planned for baghdad what's the strategy what are they planning oh i

think they're planning on a grand scale of thing that american forces have stepped on the drive north on the way through oh yeah they were the owners of the law or way with these militants ferocious people lose their cases loyalists of the regulars riding in pickup trucks come and that was not a machine gun down their quarterly regular trouble and we know that there are many many of these people in five million people thank to both agree on the family and if you are not technically a lot of the

things you say that is it the language of the of martyrdom of self immolation of a battle that they understand will have a tough time winning or one where the regime is speaking as if it'll still be standing at the end of this confrontation well for a ladder and then then there's the nose more than that they will go down and all that our country they think that they will repeat that they'll be up against the british celtic unabated the wire here but one can get out the game being very early fifties because my guess is that we may be talking about a lot of people we have now who knows enough to not vote for the outcome of the runway off but i think that they think that they are they can do it there you know i have a life right now is that this is a leadership which itself as

a voter id law do and what the thirty years doesn't really understand a great deal about how well and perhaps even at that stage that they do not fully comprehend the kind of weight of the great powers arrayed against them i mean i'm i have a theory about it now that we know where should remember the patently the wars in the last ten years in particular we journalists remember how we rate a lot of their preferred narrative of afghanistan when things go wrong that could have on them that week that immediately on what's wrong what's right and you'll recall that many of the play

quarter loss or weight of this winter and spring business that year more than seven days president bush we can avoid the way of american military power in the end the overwhelming iraq is a much much tougher today or what country much more much of that in a way to me that at a point we may be a waking was gone on the way to come on the market when you want to either underway to work on right and iraq the navy's to the office some of the bombing reports that have come in have talked about destruction of broadcast towers microwave transmitters a telephone some stations mike and internet servers is it getting tougher two words get communications in and out of baghdad are you speaking from a city that's increasingly isolated

if they're new that i'm not jealous because we're so you felt like telephones would jump over all of that destruction but it's quite play that the united states and every couple of communication at baghdad now for the country without landline telephone communications and the other crude oil wealth of the state had until yesterday the radio you're right officials say ten fifteen years ago about what price by the iraqi elite and their other business today to go through the iraqi leadership and and whether that can be effective who knows if that same randy resistant strain gulf war literally by riding around baghdad in a volkswagen huh ha i will fable driver fight over

templeton has always been surrounded by so much security that but the legend is intended to remind us of the tremendous capacity to resist it boy and girl look at a map of the us troops john burns thanks a lot for joining us and now more on the nature and extent of the resistance and saudi aramco and in one i thought by many accounts coalition forces moving toward baghdad have been surprised by one unexpected development in their march in many cases the iraqis they came to liberate are putting back what is at the root of that resistance for some of the answers we turn now to our at our ranking who teaches arabic language and literature

at harvard university he was raised in iraq that left in it seventy eight and is now an american citizen a professor of middle east history and director of the center for international studies at the university of chicago he is a palestinian descent <unk> vice president cheney said and before these hostilities began we will be greeted as liberators that was his description of how us and coalition forces would be greeted once they went into the city's on their way back they that what what happened well i think there is a problem with the strategy i think if the us army would have focused in the british army would have focused on basra on liberating basra and showing the rest of iraq but they have actually liberated the second largest city in iraq and i think the reaction of many of the residents in the other cities women would be different they would be willing to come out much more in support of the troops so there was a communications problem

that sending a signal is that it by passing by far as involve what had changed and what we see now well the problem is that saddam has put many of his troops with a dane and the republican guards and not just in astoria and other cities including basra arm but the idea of just passing bus or by at heading towards baghdad and somehow that the fall of baghdad with signal to the rest of iraq that that it that it's it's that things have ended and that they are free now i don't think that's the case because he has again put republican guards infidelity in these other cities and these troops are willing to fight to the end whether saddam falls and honestly is a possible also mr al rahim that that that the people who were supposed to be throwing rose petals and rice in the path of the incoming our coalition soldiers are scared as us officials

say so scared and so unfair saddam but they don't feel that they can rise up absolutely because what's happening is you're having republican guard units are having good at moving into the suburbs into basra into neighborhoods and taking up residence there it's not possible for these people to come out they're afraid and as long as saddam was able to broadcast his image in his message from on television on iraqi television that signals to the iraqi people that he's alive and well and that they that they should be afraid of doing anything professor karimi why do you think this plan didn't quite come together and it was based on false assumptions firstly that the iraqis you know they hate the regime arm and would look on american forces as celebrates some i'm sure might but i think others including people may loathe the regime seemed to look on the nights it's about as an occupation force i think that this was a multiplier driven by radiology driven by

own ideas held by people in washington had very little relation to facts on the ground as the intelligence services defense intelligence agency the state department could have said had they've allowed to that word who are the people who were making these estimates these grand predictions well these are people in the pentagon civilian leadership and in the white house the dealers who promises for people who listened to iraqi exiles rather than listening two people in iraq who as i as i think is generally the case do not like the regime but they might not want to see an american army of occupation particularly given the kind of fears that iraqis have about what might happen to their well resources and particularly given the history of iraq with foreign occupation which has been in a bitter and hard history so did the us and britain in the bridges overestimate the that the power of the appeal to overestimate the appeal of liver of liberation theology if it were an underestimate the the

other idea that that the desire or too odd to devise about they under estimated or other overestimated the brutal deaths of the regime and they underestimated iraqi nationals this is a stronger team that is a brutal dictatorial regime there's no question that some people are terrified of that intimidated by it but at the same time is calling on the rockies and in an appealing to iraqi nationals and has as i've heard on npr as i've heard on pbs has ever done some really good reports from western reporters there to say people who will tell you that they love the regime saying we do not want to marry an american army of occupation so i think there were serious misses the nations at the political level in the pentagon and in the white house among people who were just carried away by fantasies that had no relation to reality <unk> car he made it first while i know if you agree with that also but do you think that there is a potential backlash against the us because in nineteen ninety one when that war was over saddam hussein was still in power well let me say

that certainly national and nationalism does play a role in iraq but i would say by large at nationals in iraq has brought the iraqi people to ask whether it's the war against iran or it was the invasion of kuwait in the name of nationalism so i would say by a lot of the majority of iraqis are not so influenced by nationalism certainly there are some war and these will fight and they will try to protect the honor and the nash and mtv the territory of iraq now as far as the backlash i would say that iraqis are a bit hesitant about coming out and supporting the us particularly in the self image of incumbent out where in ninety one president bush sr had asked iraqi people to rise up and they did and stood by while saddam was allowed to sell his helicopters to slaughter them so i think the south in general is a bit hesitant they are worried about rising up against saddam and being left alone to pay

the consequences particularly when we hear reports of rumsfeld and and others who are claiming to be negotiating with the leadership in in leadership in baghdad and and and perhaps replacing saddam was somebody else because that same person perhaps it would be another bus the somebody from the military somebody from the from the military elite in back that would put these revolts down again and again the dea the rockies in the south i think i would be hesitant to do that mr carney the us administration including the special envoy to the region from a cow this odd and donald rumsfeld had been very have been really tip toeing around this notion of encouraging uprising effective seem to be actively discouraging that does that also work against the desire of people we were live in the country and have a desire to join in this effort over roasted out that says also turn them off well i would agree that the fact that you know

states encourage the iraqis to revolt and then left the religion nineteen eighty one has an impact and people i think that the fact that there is a bureaucratic struggle in washington over which iraqi factions to support and about the course to be followed in the wake of an american victory in the wake of a multi act a patient has reverberated and is heard in iraq on people know that there's a clutch of exiles who have been living high off the hog on our tax dollars are and who don't have much of a following in iraq whom a faction in the pentagon want to put into positions of power and authority over them there are of course other exiles who have a falling inside iraq but the fact that the united states is bringing to ride in on the back of tanks are in interview of one group the pentagon in particular on put the civilian leadership is probably something that is chilling to many iraqis oh i think that the fact that we are american government has not decided what it wants to do in a post where op op as poet hadn't been in close on rockies they know that there's a bureaucratic battle going on in washington and

perhaps if they're wise they'll wait till its over a before they commit themselves and mr al rahim is there a bureaucratic that also going on among all these different opposition groups is there a splinter that they're the kinds of that kind of makes it more difficult for the us or for the coalition to actually get a unified uprising eve if it's just to support that this future coming through whoa i think one issue is that the us has committed itself to taking out saddam hussain and i would say that by lars iraqis think there is a good thing but they've also been left on the sidelines than been told what role they should play in this what will the opposition should play so far the administration seems to be saying that iraq he says just wait they have been encouraged them to rise up aren't they haven't spoken about the specifics of any support for that art there is opposition on the ground in the north which is willing to go into baghdad in two other cities and and fight saddam now the us has not responded clearly to them they seem to

be working with the kurds in the north but as far as it goes as far as the self is concerned and baghdad the us hasn't said anything about working closely with the rockets up at our game and brushing and i'm site where she played a thank you very much for joining us still to come tonight training for urban combat and for battlefield medicine was retired colonel slang and warden now to reports on training programs that are likely to play a critical role in the days of bed in a rack first betty ambassador has the story of the us army preparing to fight inside sitting is no sign this is the military training its ground forces to attack a city or a town that the army tries to make its urban assault training as close to the real thing as possible colonel

james terry is commander of the army's joint writing is training center this is as close to combat as the kids love again experience and i think that that excites the smell so there's thousands of acres of louisiana farmland swamp land at fort polk had been turned into a made up country is supposed to be like any third world city or town where soldiers might be sent today the good guys are played by the soldiers being trained in this recent fourteen day exercise they were the third brigade of the twenty fifth infantry division out of hawaii i am guys are also plagued by soldiers that they take the world opposition the will of course is trying to take over the made up third world country when the two sides are in combat

they engage in a kind of laser tag their rifles are equipped with technology that can record hits on sensors placed on their uniforms and helmets when the sensor goes off that soldier is a casualty and put out of action each time the war games take place the guerrilla forces always have the upper hand that's because of a train derailed there so good they often afflict sixty percent casualty hurdles get lewis is their commander my soldiers the ones that are there and the buildings behind you have fallen out of the same buildings three or four times in the last six months so they know every corner they know that they will provide them a little different angle to fight for all they know what they know where the sewers are the nevada a skate they knew where to get up into that it's they just they know the terrain very well their captain david craig

was a company commander in the third day he put his men through warmer her cells the afternoon before his company went into the made up country to take back a small village from the guerrillas i like most of today's on an assault action they would go in a night that made quite optimistic we only nine russ are out are wheeling draw i had like one night vision goggled first want now everybody's get that we got technologies could as bart went right in his men deployed at two o'clock in the morning he also knew from intelligence reports that the worst could happen and he gave a direct foreign legion tennis about an hour serve to clear up tale and all that secure local area and took a walk out sit

down about is watergate but for senate six years ago then it was time for the most important part of the fourteen day exercise an all out assault on the main town of the made up country the mission once again take the town from the guerrillas ain't it as the soldiers in training moved in and won thirty in the morning one of them got hung up on a piece of wire but eventually they move on they were also surprised by the presence of civilians who threw up their hands in the windows of one building they had been planted in the town by the army to represent local residents the us forces tried to establish an offensive position by moving bradley fighting vehicles into the streets but the opposition forces them out all night

long there was heavy fighting as the us forces tried to destroy the enemy and by daybreak the men of the third brigade still ignite security entire town and their casualties were high retired marine colonel randy gamble an expert on urban assault training says the military knows they can expect thirty percent casualty rates in real urban combat because fighting toward a door is inherently dangerous hear about space is without question the most difficult battle space to forge for soldiers or marines operating it is a very restrictive in and construct a battle space it's very complex because of the nature of the construction in the environment you get the multiple dimensions of subterranean your basement says some ways and a number of tunnels or whatnot that it is the worst environment that the military can operate it if you train for it it's a lot less dangerous if you haven't trained for it it's as bad as it's going to

get cheung american soldiers are no longer playing war games now they're involved in the real they rolling stone as they take on saddam hussein's forces in a number of iraqi cities air right next elected new techniques being used to train frontline medics and others assign to care for wounded soldiers are reporters from susan dancer of our health unit a partnership with a painter j kaiser family foundation remembering the action was taking place thousands of miles from around the for these trainees some of may soon be on their way to the front this exercise seemed real enough power anymore almost thirty thousand dollar high tech mannequins called cement this one is a program to stimulate a severely wounded soldier was armand maker blasted

off and spout invitation blunt the medics struggled to treat the dying down even as they came under enemy fire at despite their best effort as samantha i afterward we talked with medic trainee daniel skipper he's one of about four hundred now enrolled in a sixteen week course sam houston in san antonio texas i've received more than a wealth of knowledge how to go on a battlefield and safely bring the injured patients us and protect them in the same cell as far as being deployed i'm ready to go to care for soldiers would enter the war in iraq the armed forces are putting to use a host of new techniques and technologies some are derived from the same changes in trauma care that it revolutionize civilian medicine but others are based on lessons learned from earlier military conflicts in places

like afghanistan and somalia all this has produced a transformation in combat medicine the previously hadn't changed much since the vietnam war army colonel ellen morgan is an emergency physician who oversees training at fort sam the problem over the past few years to beef up three new skills told a cinematic is not a doctor or nurse but rather kind of first responder who moves with the troops in a combat situation and that was the first person on the first first medical individuals to take care of the injured soldier whatever the injury is real gunshot wound to the chest and airway problem making sure that the soldiers given prominent appear instantly so that he is not taking for us we can you move back and get more definitive care these trainees are mostly young men often have no or minimal medical not when they arrive at fort sam famous first complete the same course civilians take to become emergency medical technicians

orient them they undergo intensive training in the more sophisticated skills they'll need on the battlefield some of the material was taught with specially developed computer software are challenges dunes to make critical care decisions then gives them feedback about the impact on the patient we can set the level of the briefing to whatever level more detail more detail on it tells him everything they should have done the things that they did do that they should have no actually tell them as if you interviews and general guidelines about what they could do to make it better before the overhaul of the training program next to be learned only from books and never worked with real life patients now they're able to learn from human standards the dummies america's vital signs are controlled by laptop computer or mechanized lungs allowed into brie by practicing on the students learn such skills as the all important abcs of trauma care clearing airways and checking for breathing and circulation that we leave the course right now and their first day on the ground could be in afghanistan or interact and they're

expected to take your wounded soldiers and as you see the news lately there are wounded soldiers and so their actions and if they live or die once on the battlefield medics will also have sophisticated new tools to save lives and these include an army designed to make it they can use with just one hand over the pressures held on it and disadvantage make him a compressed shells and shrapnel it uses directly the red blood cells ceiling a woman shot and halting high pressure art to really quickly the trainees learn about medicine other personnel already trying to provide care or learning how to do so and contact this group but campbell isn't san antonio includes doctors and nurses some new to the military others already in the armed forces reservists almost no never seen combat but they're now being acclimated to such common battlefield conditions urban warfare that or what

but then the wind training scenario is loosely based on the nineteen ninety three incident in somalia portrayed in the movie black hawk down as somali and fighters hughes grenades to down an army black hawk helicopter in the capital city of the tradition that it's a rush to still struggle to treat the wounded there against a barrage of any virus better typical response for medical personnel with the wrong one that says army lieutenant katherine fogelberg she helps coordinate the course at camp bullets medical personnel their first instinct when they can crush catchers used immediately start to treat them and what they have to understand in that situation is the first thing they need to do is get those patients to safety and then they need to go head and start treating them so here are the doctors and nurses practice returning enemy fire with dummy and sixties then removing the injured to a safer location treatment after the exercise we spoke with air force pediatrician dr kevin

appleby she told us in training hammered home a stark contrast between combat medicine at civilian medical training i dont think intellectually what's uncommon situation you know first and foremost the best way to treat patients has to have a secure area not actually be fighting and that actually being kind of recognition and but now i am ready to go and on that deadly battlefields of a rag mcelwee know her colleagues might be able to save at least some lives a lot as violet tonight commentary from two members of our retired colonel corps former army special forces at middle east intelligence officer patrick lang former air force operations plan or an architect or the air campaign in the first gulf war john morton her award in today's bombing of baghdad is said to have been the heaviest yet what other likely targets were really up to right now

what we heard from john burns a little bit earlier that we finally have begun to take down the communication system but one of the things that i think we get sick thats a good way to think about this is it was it an experience we had during the planning of the first day of golf or brought up a tightening of deadlock over to help us out but he had written a book a brilliant little book called today talk and one or objective was was to hit all of the targets in baghdad that would put the administration at the regime but hussein regime in a very difficult position communications electricity internal petroleum flow lights on command centers all of these days analysts like were beginning to close down some of those things that are absolutely essential for saddam hussein to maintain himself into controlling position and much has been said also that the the real targets are also the republican guards in the outskirts of baghdad that that says to you something else does not

well it does and what it really says to me is that it's important for us to think about what saddam's strategy is here from saddam's standpoint yet as we heard earlier it's highly unlikely that he thinks he's going to have any success in a conventional military level so what he wants to do in fact is to generate a bloody destruct the bottle for baghdad and i believe that what he is hoping and maybe somewhat for me from his side but he is hoping that as the destruction in the inevitable high civilian casualty rates begin to build up that there will be sufficient international pressure that will lead to do that will force some kind of negotiated settlement it's so from our standpoint then the thing that we really would like to do is to figure out how to avoid a battle of baghdad and that it seems to me should be the forest of what were what were doing now well based on your experience in your knowledge on a set of these kinds of issues what is the ability of air power to do something to have dug an outfit like the republican guard what can you do for

mom from from up from from many thousand feet well maybe ants are very simply is that you can destroy keeping in mind that any modern military force a conventional military force at any rate is heavily dependent on its tanks its armored personnel carriers its artillery it's heavy equipment all of those things can be destroyed from the air given a little bit of time and that time was not even politically along now when you have available to you so many precision weapons capabilities general schwarzkopf idea in the nineteen ninety one gulf war was in fact too to make the iraqi army operationally ineffective and his assumption which was i think it will prove out was that if you could knock out fifty percent of that heavy equipment that in fact that the opponent's lead the opposing army would not be i would offer any kind of resources that an and then of course when when he reached that point and then

began the ground war that our ground forces were able to sweep through the thing we're actually about same number of casualties that they have suffered so far in this particular operation so if you are to overlay that over what's going on in this particular way war in america not interactive tv in baghdad where do you think we are that process in terms of getting the the troops on the ground in the troops on the ground stop until point where at a land invasion would take care of it well i i think that in reality that although the republican guard looks impressive even an engine and have been very conventional terms it looks like it's walking the way to baghdad that in fact that we can probably pretty much knock that out from here but again what the problem is at least think about this if we took all the republican guard out from all the way around baghdad that has not solved our problem the problem is somewhere in the middle of baghdad underneath baghdad who knows

exactly where can sit on strategy is to pull us into that really really messy thing which obviously we can wear but it will be it will be messy as we do it and if we can figure out a way to avoid actually going into the city and that's where that's the thing that we need to be looking for or growing the suicide bombing today speaking of that kind of combat in a city that is coming it would it would do what it is is the kind of thing we should've expected business that inevitable i'm surprised that hasn't happened for this and i think it is related directly to the subject you're discussing before because of the great fallacy in the planning this thing which i can see now much better than i could before it is that is exactly what professor kennedy was saying know from child for is that we discovered and charlie too much the fact that an iraqi nationalism is a very potent thing and that while these guys may not fight for saddam they sure as the devil look like they're going to find for act and what you saw today was some young man who's described as a lieutenant of iraqi army go out

and blow himself up in order to kill for jie eyes at hand their promises more of the same so i think you know that richard moreau time that the enemy has a will of these things and that and that they get a vote is the army likes to say no and they seem to be voting for the idea that they're going to fight a psychological battle against us of attrition in which are reliable strong points of defense in depth on suicide bombers things like this says it where i'd wear down our will to continue this in the end and it's it's it's basic paradigm shift in the way they were done these before and it's a really kind of fighting for moammar as a practical matter on the monday a combat soldier level what we do about how you protect yourself from people who were willing to commit suicide to get you well you're you know us israelis those waffles to say this in conjunction with the campaign director at but you certainly get an infected become law would have is you become extremely suspicious of potentially hostile to people who look like they might harm you and this case this guy was posing

as a taxi driver in his taxi and that pulled off to the side that was up a new movie called asian american troops over to help him and another blown off yeah i learned that this kind of thing you know that would've been about liane is no matter what the officers say people like me and john they believe that the troops were to come down to it if it comes a choice between a chance on this guy or not they're not going to take a chance to say about these new words in a beef fewer people anxious to jump out of their drapes in and help some survey on the side of the road are anxious to take prisoners of the witches that's exactly what i'm saying if i'm if there's a great deal of risk involved i think people's reluctance to go up and meet your meteoric plays a matter fact the more the iraqis do this it's inevitable that will happen imagine a standard from the point view of the iraqi's what this guy did is entirely positive there no negatives and in their culture they see this guy as a hero who died for the country in that their nationalism and their islam it's all mixed up together so as far as they're concerned this kid went straight to heaven's what he did so you know i don't think we should depend on the idea that our

blog more than a war doing something that other parallels through a warfare from the beginning or ferryman resistance fighters or too many of those were essentially suicide suicide fires were they not the central element our culture though has been moving steadily away from that kind of thing in the direction of people take buchanan utilitarian view of life you know their visa transaction of some kind and this is a step back into another world in which there's no transaction here except that you probably expect salvation kurt warner added the word from on from all of the leadership today although there's some confusion about terminology was that there is no pause no official cause so right now before going on back to the big picture here before going on to baghdad it's just that her body scan or resting for a moment what you what you're reading it that what's going on here we are the economy is is it going to be a pause but that b up the us supply lines come closer and the

bombing to be a little more severe what you're reading of this you know it gets really rather interesting how we've we've had several thousand years of all of this reading about military history we only have about a hundred years a little less than that where air power has been a significant part of what's going on so it it seems a little bit strange to be talking about a pause right now when you complete when you win republican guard tanks in order personnel carriers are disappearing literally by the minute and while and where the situation in baghdad is improving from our standpoint which they get which means is deteriorating from the standpoint of the people in baghdad so we get that most what you have is you have one of the components of the military operation that is it is replenish ching itself but i think if you ask anybody in the republican guard division whether they thought there was a pause they would say i don't but i certainly haven't seen one caroline gomberg

comments earlier in the program about negativism seeing these things and then it turns to quickly means compared to the possibility that say we sure that the possibility a repeat of what happened in afghanistan things didn't go well the mission in afghanistan a lot of people said oh my goodness engine out this is a bad plan etc are we falling into that the big we you know i i don't think so i don't think there's going to be a particularly john's read about that my year general when you were that simple command center will be one feet wide i accept that and what extent they have been happier isn't agreement proceed to engage republican guard aaron paul couple of stuff these babies babies babies there's no big question will it i'm down and i i don't think there's been a sudden the collapse will once the biggest in real medical wavers about my yet what about the negative question oh are we being canadian and i think we are the biggest entirely too much talk about that and what they didn't like in the news coverage today was that was imbedded reporters who needed a job that this one fellow center around

in and observe diablo moral serves the field for two dead marines and that and recorded the images of these things that we can for the camera as well and i think that's a call for hidden go too far sold his grief for his good for his friend should be something actually a private think i've been a lot of users in the field myself and i would be very happy for some the minimum feel like that when you read that about many things no i'm really not an empty because an awful lot of the reporting is the reporting that is it really is observing microscopic events which which may in fact even some cases be serious in themselves but from a bigger picture standpoint are simply not critically rolled up but i would come back again to this idea that the more that we can put the squeeze on baghdad make an uncomfortable for people in baghdad the void that battle for baghdad the better off sort of a gentleman thank you both very much as banning in a major award

of the elements in a race car is an iraqi suicide bomber killed four us soldiers near the city of niger the iraqis promised there would be more such attacks the explosions shook baghdad late into the night and early sunday morning as coalition aircraft stage heavy new air attacks the main targets were rocky republican guard units outside the city and the us central command said there was no pause in the ground campaign even though some units had just stop moving for the moment jim that's again thanks for it there was another reminder today that us troops still face danger in afghanistan to special forces soldiers were killed in helmand province in the south and another was wounded a military statement said their vehicle was ambushed during a patrol will be here for another special war edition tomorrow night at six eastern time and we'll see you on line and that our regular news our time on monday evening for now i'm jim lehrer thank you indeed major funding for the news hour

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