The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; Indian Agenda

funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and by grants from exelon corporation allied chemical corporation and the corporation for public broadcasting this week first a quotation on average the american indian has the highest infant mortality rate the lowest longevity rate the lowest level of educational attainment the lowest per capita income and the poorest housing and transportation in the land and what really that quotations from a recent report by a congressional commission set up to review federal indian policy it's the

reality that has ignited a new push among american indians a push for what they call sovereignty and asserting a treaty rights they say have been ignored or violet the best known and most knowledgeable the indian leaders russell means but this way to day we live in the belly of the monster and the monster is the united states of america means spoke at a un sanction conference in geneva switzerland on discrimination against indians in the americans but the book is more than hot rhetoric and militant fringe actions to drive the absolute for travel to two thirds of the land in the state of maine and millions of dollars in damages a federal court has already granted one half of the salmon and steelhead trout fishing rights to indian tribes around puget sound other tribes in the west have set up a kind of opec cartel of cell and developmental rights including oil gas coal and uranium these and other concrete within the system actions have also spawned a serious backlash movement there is talk in

congress of once and for all suddenly indian rights question and one of the suggestions is to dissolve a reservation system and the other special indian programs forcing the indian to assimilate into the rest of american society tonight a lot of the indian sovereignty movement and its many ramifications beginning with a view from dallas where indian leaders are meeting this week to discuss this very subject and to like our public station k e r a and alice lee yes jim thousand indians a meeting in dallas this week for the convention of the national congress of american indians the delegates represent more than one hundred fifty different tribes in this country and they're concerned about their sovereignty all of the lands they occupied the nation seven hundred thousand indians currently control some fifty million acres of land and they say they have a legal right for at least another fifty million acres melton mascot is president of the national congress of american indians and he's a member of the

colville tribe of the pacific northwest with its announced its sovereignty seems to be the key worry and the convention at the convention here in dallas this week what do you mean when you use that word sovereignty to myself and many many indian leaders of the country it's a very simple word that means that we have the right to control our for people in our resources with an expert exterior bombers of our reservations it means that we've always had the right to control in the time before the non indians came to this country we have government they might not have been the sophisticated today thai government with prostitution and bylaws the complicated system that the white man has but we have a system we've had leaders week we controlled are the actions of our people and our resources when the non indian came into our countries we would never lost that it wasn't giving given away to the federal government wasn't taken

away those agreements made entreaties made between indian nation the united states government and then those treaties and agreements united states to withdraw for example or the united states don't make treaties with with any other race in this continental united states the only make treaties with sovereign governments which is the supreme law of the land same status as as united states constitution now if there was anything that was lost in our opinion by the tribes it was lost because they agreed to have the united states implemented or take forty or run certain parts of what the government usually runs this unique relationship to the federal government who can talk about which developed the theory what responsibility concept project i mean here's why the vicinity so much visibility for the sovereignty issue now all in the past the guitars weren't an even today many of them are very very

poor very very isolated middle they're not considered a very much of a serious threat to the non indians or two counties or states or to the federal government as we've developed ourselves as we found out of the heart we can control the atf exploitation of our energy resources our water our land our we lived about ourselves to the point where two non indians particularly into states and to the federal government were a threat to that were financial threat to non indian farmers cattlemen corporate interests who have been using our lands either or nothing all or very very cheap leases and so as we start implementing things that government's implement like ordinances for land use planning and so on i've been using your resources you know that when it gets down to the back to the

financial part of the federal government needs to call oil oil shale and saw an hour on our own authorities to regulate those resources that scares them and so then they start attacking us whether it be through the congress or whether it be through some department government then we have to react and then it will sort of the media that all of a sudden we found sovereignty night before leaving on that do you fight the man with the major responsibility for indian matters in the federal government is now forced gerard he ran into the job having been sworn in yesterday as assistant secretary of interior for indian affairs the first bureau of indian affairs had to hold the assistant secretary travels well although the job he's not know the issues secretary gerard is a blackfoot indian from montana who worked on indian matters is a senate staffer for several years first you are the first indian affairs head of assistant

secretary why does that have any special significance of a little sound of that i believe that that's i think in this regard for the first time the nominal head of the bureau of indian affairs has been placed at a policy level equal to other heads of bureaus within the department of the interior and i accept the word that secretary and that's when he offered me the position that this individual serving as the assistant secretary of the interior for indian affairs was going to participate in developing policy for indian matters and at the same time would have an opportunity to participate in policy decisions affecting other bureaus within that department not just in iraq just indian affairs i would say that's very quickly in the short period of time i served as a prince so the variety department prior to my confirmation this was the practice so i believe there is a favorable climate an unparalleled opportunity for indian people can influence policy at the highest levels in government today and others

happened in the last twenty four to change your mama's far cry do you support the emphasis on sergeant yes i do as a media described this way first of all as an indian person i too believe that the tribe's possessed in our authority to establish their own system of governments their own rules and regulations and enforcement local lake now from an official standpoint i have to point out both the sovereignty excess and disqualified only to the extent that it's been altered by express acts of congress are treaties i will go one step further and say that in connection with the problems from the non indian communities today one of the one of the major issues as well or not the tribe's jurisdiction extends to non indians residing within the exterior boundaries the indian reservations are currently two cases before the supreme court and rich colors all the tissue that is correct

but what about on the question of the bigger question now well it's hard to quantify but let's just say i have though the questions of of rights water rights mineral rights that sort you think that the the tribes have their under your concept of your ideas on their right to exercise those falling certainly i i i believe it the development of those resources should be with the consent of the tribe's now where the united states is serious it's the trustee over indian matters obviously the trustee as certain responsibilities in the development of leases and that sort of thing but that basic decision as to whether or not that research should be devout just rest with the project says the president or the administration generally agree with your basic position i think it's fair to say that it's a fraud that are practically agree with its stand yes there's been no formal policy pronouncement on indian matters up to this day but i think it's safe to say that

her that isn't accepted principle when carter administration is one other consideration so of this whole new movement for sovereignty the glasses the disruption the fact that it could have on the country's lahore particularly in states like maine and other places like that is that a concern of yours or is that something that somebody else will stay away no absolutely i have viewed as a concern of mine is the chief advocate for indians and the government today and in terms of the maine situation i would hope that we could support the tribes in her bid for a negotiated settlement that would be a less disruptive to both parties indians and non indians and that's the direction the el paso college and an oxcart seem to want to move on but as jan one driver has taken a leadership role in the movement to exert sovereignty rides in the middle of washington state jesse de la cruz is chairman of the finals and is also president but the national tribal chairman association

with today recruit you just heard from the trustee in washington is gerard russell is the trustee the federal government what would you like to see him in the government doing half i like to see the government spending on the trees at that i've been tested since the treaties were made through judicial process they've been upheld by over seven thousand pieces of legislation strengthened the rights of tribal governments to govern their own people their own territories and i think that the american indian wars review commission shall we various rights of indian people and the way the congress itself has mishandled union legislation from one administration to the next to do we

have an actual cost the state governments that also initiated a study that comes out almost parallel to the american impulse review commission quite clearly state that tried to have the rights to govern their own people and they have the arms of any other garden in which brings on the same parallel problems accounting firm to state governments have when you start applied regulation such a zoning require people to come to you for permits and i think this is what makes people nervous of course many many new to accomplish on your own without help from my tribe a quark from nineteen sixty nine to the position that we have these are they've never been taken away we can find a court decision on a piece of legislation but the part of our tribe were taken away is a government in a nineteen sixty nine we close twenty eight miles of trouble beach that people had assumed was probably because of the living on the

beaches and in the beaches and pretty sad shape the tribe i'm articulate or stop in operations because of the way the lobbying practices were allowed on stage it was a three or four months after that we stopped the state highway that is still stuck to this day you think that if times can act in a similar way on their own and he tried and recognizing that tribes just as county garments aren't state governments are or are at various levels of development that are very good and the riot and you're an insistence that they can require and havel things for their own people in her own character is just as well as any other government can send it why there was a strong dissent in a panhandle that congressional commission report are quoted from a while ago the dissent took exception to the reports major thrust supporting sovereignty for the nation's

indian tribes frederic march on a phoenix arizona attorney was one of the major authors of that minority opinions in that officially by congressman lloyd needed democrat of washington but marchionne first became involved in indian matters is a lawyer for non indians and all the legal dispute with indian reservation authorities what are your views on the concept of sovereignty as outlined by mr gerard <unk> of integration that you can ask well as you might suspect i disagree with the views of the most detested mr gerardo cruz it seems to me it's crucial to point out precisely what the issue is the issue is not whether or not tried so enjoy the kind of sovereignty that international entities enjoy and no responsible spokesman the idea that on the other hand no one is no one that i know of at least an hour before the terminations of indian tribes as political entities in this country and the basic issue is whether or not indian tribes should enjoy a prominent role as a political entity in this

country along with the state's united states and of delicious well it says it can take two forms reform advocated by my colleagues on this panel is the foreign referred to its troubles aren't i don't subscribe to that view i don't think that is the current state of the law as it is now nor do i think that would be wise also the future i do think however that indian tribes do exercise powers of self government over their own members essentially as congressional licensees the congress is insulated tribal indians from the application of state law with respect all that matters to the reservation indians and tribes are subject to the laws of the united states and state's except to the extent that the congress is insulated from a nation state law in short there's been federal preemption of the state law with respect to tribal indians and to end their reservations but that does not mean travelled silently in the sense of general

territorial government over all people and all things on the reservation my view is that it's a limited parts of government over only reservation indians to achieve the congressional purpose preserving travel cultural identity a lot about the major push toward the exercise of mineral rights thing that they call a semi opec cartel its been organized and the worst much of the push and maine are lawsuits other than many other incidents like the one that was there to cruz's mentioned an area where you are rewarded them involve course is this concern you its only concerns me and i don't think indian tribes need the notion of tribal sovereignty in the sense that they use it reserve the resources as landowners they can preserve their resources in the same fashion that you and i can preserve our swimmers the states of the united states can preserve there's they don't need the kind of gentle territorial jurisdiction over all things

in entities on a reservation preserve their resources so i think that's a false issue though is the issue well i've i imagine that they are aggrieved by past their past performance and enjoying their piece of the year are the economic pie it exists in our states and and and i think that with respect to that issue which which you describe without quotation at the very beginning this program that's largely the problem caused by reservation indians and to some extent by congressional policy themselves that is to say it's very difficult to achieve the greater portion of the economic pie and at the same time advanced notions of travel separatism it really isn't the responsibility of the american people at large to subsidize trouble savages the way to enjoy the kinds of standards that affected your quotation suggested that they are not now enjoying used to join the american society and that too could dissipate in the existing constitutional

framework of the state and federal governments as you know love reservation indians are citizens of the state in which they live and yet have no responsibility that state government because of the doctrine of federal preemption now scientists agree is certainly quite like i was hearing you in the position of the landowner instead of travel travel travel garments and troubled people are landowners in that unmarked on and people like you and give examples saddam shown the extreme situations of indian people for their reservations in the city and elsewhere i wonder what happens we had about eighty five to ninety percent population is indian as in some cases an indian tribal council in that many people are definitely

have the records and out is when mr khan come from the state of washington the history of the suppression and oppression of the state and county governments along with a national record and no the cargo moves to state governments have not been able to handle situations such as i mean in an environment on indian reservations and iraq are a government or a state government yet as devout using today's technology land use models use them for the highest and best use taken into consideration all things within an ecological area and eighties is saying that that will not work can be a sophisticated economists argue with people as far you knew people's feeling privileged resources we've got examples across this nation restrictions are managed politically the fire water pollution control act nineteen sixty eight is a good example of a state washington

state don't want him to cooperate conducted studies regarding pollution and industrial waste and they're still the books for more studies are set on the shelf and big industry still getting way beyond improvements and i'm sure that happens in other states have been merging the internet for many many many years to assimilate and my answer to that is that that's a good concept for people who want to get our land base and to get our water and to get our energy resources that there cannot really be a true assimilation you can only have a physical assimilation but the people aren't accepting indians there isn't an assimilation of the heart and mind that the exception of the acceptance of indian people and society

they're very dead set against the throes of great move back a few years ago our cultural initiative and that's what really brought the tribes to get on that on that one issue that they are unique and special people with special rights and privileges or special cultures and religions and language is an american progress well i think one of the best riots in indian history i'd like to respond to one other thing that that mr mark follman has stated that i might die very quickly it's strange that report minority report that recommended parts review commission and where they came from because the individual artist needs who presented that minority report was the individual on the on the commission and the vice chairman of that commission who

requested the indians participate on on the task force's that was the task force's was his concept that was true there there are investigators to their researchers go to the library of congress to the national archives to the court records the decision to an air conditioned just a mouth because he didn't agree with an iraqi minority report is one of the most cause death yes for several hundreds of years indian tribes have not enjoyed the kind of sovereignty that they are now seeking or at least articulated that is just a general territorial powers over their reservations it's it's always amazed me as to it while the side and that sort of gentle governmental power is necessary to advance a travel aspirations and why on the other hand the more now unlimited

deal tribal self government which you're injected into this discussion suggest that one of the reasons why the tribal sovereignty is coming under such activity is because of some legal victories that you alluded to in your opening remarks indians have won significant victories through the courts many of them an area of natural resources are depending on the outcome of the supreme court's decision on these jurisdictional cases there may be yet another legal victory for indians now i believe that much of our problem today stands on these legal victories and the way the non indian community is reacting is to attack the traveling to the government when he and sovereignty being the heart of that that becomes the target of it not understandable let's say four am an indian muslim of maine who may who sees this is mae

losing their landlords say a fisherman up in the northwestern felt that he's lost his fishing rights that he's been using for years and years and that's an understandable reaction is not victory but in the case of maine it's my understanding that the indians want to negotiate a settlement that will not dislocate and that in terms of a backlash if you picked up a serious backlash to this politically how you know congress very well you just came from their careers working on the areas of congress behind that sentiment i would say that the climate has changed considerably in terms of what we knew that to be just a few short years ago and i suggest for that though that the change in that climate is to do the kind of back license emanating as a result of the legal victories you agree with that oh i think so and i think frankly that's in the finest tradition of the democratic political process so that the system the system apparently works

mr verleger in fletcher feel about the backlash that you are receiving from the non indian community for five generations the backlash time the factual get out on the backlash to mention a fish in case i come from the heart of where the fission case originated and you see that simply hundred non indian fishermen and interview people displaced because of a fifty fifty split the facts about that happen those people are full time vision and a displaced to tap into a thousand and you look at the others because of the lack of jobs in the area but let me ask you finally to non indians watching the program tonight concern interested about thirty or sovereignty movement what he had to say to them in terms of what they and they're sitting on land or whatever that they might lose as a result of this i would say the evidence we have the same

concerns that the non indians have weakened were concerned that the quality of water quality of land is maintained and then everybody gets a fair shake actions have shown by being controlled by the federal government or by state government we feel for those for those people so i would actually that their john lennon dallas like you would not believe the smartphone thank you and gerard tonight you and good luck on your new job after twenty four hours mr niederman is permitting workout unravel the confusion over that the government has or hasn't done with saccharin i'm jim well thank you and goodnight ms buchanan send one dollar to the macneil lehrer report

report by your report was produced by wnet wpa they are solely responsible for its content for this program have been provided by the station and other public television stations like rand corporation allied chemical corporation for public broadcasting you well i'm one day a a a a a a a the confusion state of saccharin as the one story we'll examine next common with mia lehrer one story in detail instantly aware of

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