The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

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this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to a pbs station from viewers like you thank you as big six congress is in its final hours the one hundred seventh convenes in january washington for the republicans or democrats the gop has been in charge for the last six years now with only a slim majority of change and a handful of seats on election day could put democrats back in power or like ed as presents debate night two thousand democrats and republicans make their case for controlling congress now you're our moderators margaret warner and when i fall good evening and welcome to public television's debate night i'm margaret

warner and when i fall where in washington tonight for a what our national conversation an exchange if you will across the partisan divide between republican and democratic leaders of congress as part of a local national pbs programming effort many of your local stations will follow this program with local candidate for us while the election news this year has focused mainly on the presidential race on november seventh voters will also choose thirty four senators and all four hundred and thirty five members of the house the democrats would have to gain seven house seats were five senate seats to wrest control of either house from the republicans the outcome of these house and senate races will affect not only the priorities of the next congress with the fortunes of the next president use our congressional correspondent kwame holman explains how that relationship is working this year the two major candidates for president crisscrossed the country this fall they campaigned on many of the same issues congress has debated for months so much al gore for example is pushing a medicare basic

prescription drug program for seniors costing three hundred forty billion dollars over ten years so it's time to modernize it and improve it by adding a prescription drug benefit for all seniors fall into the medicare program congressional republicans rejected that idea in june favoring instead a limited less expensive approach george w bush has paid his presidential bid in part to one point three trillion dollars and across the more tax cuts landesman is year one quarter of this year with the republicans in congress gave up on that idea a year ago after president clinton vetoed their plan and their bipartisan efforts this year to provide relief from the state and the marriage penalty taxes were beaten as well however a few weeks ago both sides did agree in principle to set aside most of unanticipated two point two trillion dollars surplus over the next ten years to pay down the national debt would take at least nine percent other national security

and medicare services for life away and make sure that we pay down the depth at which the only voice for small business tax cuts for retirement benefits as well as some increased funding for things like education i'm presented with the vikings anywhere it saves some circles but in recent days as members rushed to drop the curtain on this one hundred sixth congress they loaded up final spending bills with billions of dollars for special projects south carolina republican mark sanford strict fiscal conservative blames both democrats and republicans it's just in nature frankly people to repeat familiar they see is your christmas comes to washington early and people were killed when their presence and driving back from the rest of its troops out real early on missouri democrat says you go well you know as we approach halloween it occurs to me that we're not going to be getting very many trees

to the american public were not going to give him campaign finance reform and ongoing given patients bill of rights we're not going give them prescription drugs for seniors and then two bills that are particularly important to me marriage tax penalty an estate tax relief in which i was the democrat co sponsoring they're not going to become law but the one hundred says congress can boast of use significant accomplishments banking and financial services reform greater flexibility for states using federal education funds an increase in outside income limits for social security recipients more money to fight the drug trade in colombia and permanent normal trade relations with china perhaps not as many major accomplishments as in congress has passed but this one hundred sixth congress got off to a slow legislative start in january of nineteen ninety nine preoccupied with the president's impeachment trial of us involvement in the war in kosovo joining us now are for the democrat senator harry reid of nevada and representative david bonior of michigan and for the republican

senator chuck hagel of nebraska and congressman jc watts of oklahoma welcome gentlemen we're going to begin with an opening question to the two house leaders here and throughout the evening we've asked the disappearance in the interest of give and take to keep their answers to a minute the democrats won the coin toss and will lead off campus in my ear while americans be better off if democrats took control of congress because we want all americans to participate in the prosperity of our country we want for our children smaller classes are safe and they are disciplined school environment for seniors they deserve a secure retirement and one else deserves prescription drug plan under medicare billy families deserve a tax cut not a trillion dollar tax cut that will send us into a cycle inflation get into high interest rates unfortunately this republican controlled congress has a lot of themes of bipartisan cooperation they block campaign finance reform raising the minimum wage holding the generals accountable having a prescription drug plan under medicare gun

safety for our children they have attempted to enact an enormous tax cut for the wealthiest of the wealthiest and special interests and as a result of that they have a lot of talking about trying to give the many things to a few people at the expense of many it and we think the american people to survive hi thank you congressman watts why would americans better off if republicans kept control of similarly inherited congress in nineteen ninety five congress we're standing out more money than we're taking and we needed that welfare reform we're spending the social security surplus and the medicare surplus to pay the government's bills we're telling kids in a local school district and teachers initiative back home i mean security of the military will get more money and in the six years that we've been in the majority we balance the books we don't play out with often a more money that would take in any more we don't spend social security and medicare so pluses to pay the

government's bills were sending education dollars back home we reformed welfare six and half million more americans in the workplace today because we chose to see compassion in a different way and out our futures more secure for kids and grandkids because of our republican majority for it in just the marvel divisions are sponsoring thank you gentlemen our first segment will be about the economy the republicans get first crack at starting with senator hegel senator we're in the middle of a big standoff between the white house and congress over education the president wants to spend more money on and hiring new teachers or you want to spend more money on school construction republicans wasn't his money back to states in the form of block grants explain your position and defend well first i think get as a fan jc watts indicated that over the last six years another responsible stewardship of the republican party that the congress is not only that they would balance the budget work with a president to do that but in fact help reduce are pluses those surpluses and now give us some

options education has its top the list when you look at all of our budgets and what we have spent on education says the republicans who control congress they have a rather significant we will have a major increase in education budget issue for f y into total wine and so as we look at the resources that we are very much aware of and committed to that to help our school this expresses country also are are acutely aware of the facts republicans believe this that education is a local issue the control of education is rick is really better left to the parents and the teachers investors to the school boards those the people have the most to win or lose your education yes they need the resources and we intended it and we intend to continue to help find those resources for but the other part of this is is that we're not actually funding what we have mandated the local school districts to do for the last twenty five years for example the individuals with disabilities

education act the idea for a disability children who need help special attention and resources for their education and that mandate early said years ago that the rubble income up to forty percent of the funding would never come up leaving ten percent of the funding for that yet that the democrats will continue to add on more specifically tailored focused education programs not giving the flexibility that to the school boards and teachers in paris sen reid iraq today that are updated every homicide detective affected one and this is what the american people are saying all over america the republicans are trying to take credit for what the democrats have done all over america there they were talking about a prescription benefit that's copied from us they are willing to talk about it but not known what do much about it and the economic plan the jc lined out is actually in line with what you're doing all over the country what you have to realize is two years before jc watts came to washington president clinton came forward with his nineteen ninety budget deficit reduction plan that was passed without a single

republican in the house or senate in fact al gore had brick die as result that this country's been put on an economic plan of recovery that's never been seen before in this country we like to talk about it at the economy at length later but about education but when i we would talk about the community have to talk about education education is also an issue that they're trying to talk like democrats fact is that we have tried in this congress to have a debate on education they have refused to allow us today in the senate we've spent four days in two years talking about education when why haven't we spend more than they want less we simply have not been able to debate this issue in the congress now what we want is we think we need additional money for class size reduction we believe that we need more teachers we believe there should be school construction that nevada's example we have to build in las vegas and new school every month to keep up with the growth in america it's not like nevada in america the average public schools over forty years old what republicans are trying to do is try to

forget the fact that over ninety percent of our kids are educated and public schools we believe that their policies public schools and we believe that what we should do is have a full debate on this i hope next congress will do will be able to get this congress we've been stymied and unable to do that congressman what's what is this one as congress and a federal government had to say about this anyway only seven cents of every school darth vader citizens of the republican debate in education washington is not about dial says about policy and i agree with their we put to this republican majority would put two billion dollars more in education the issue that would be a question about a ten percent increase but the policy is where the differences are the democrats would say let washington determine how ballot should be spent we would say allow local school districts to determine how those policies that and if they want to hire more teachers that's fine with us but maybe they will they don't wanna more

teachers maybe they want to train the teachers at the already have maybe they want a wider schools for the internet we get let local school districts teachers administrators then know all the names of our kids and our grandkids let them make that determination on how those dollars that's what this is about is not about policy it's about passing on this but that number one we childhood education have to do it within the context of the economy if you're going to spend that george bush wants to spend and as the republicans wanted to spend last year one point eight to one point nine trillion dollars over the next ten years on tax cuts ago primarily to the wealthiest you're not going to have a lot of room for education for health care for all the other needs in the country we believe that a hundred thousand teachers are important because it helps reduce class as you get a better quality of education for those young people whose lives are like sponges especially in those first three years if you have smaller class sizes and one to get that down to one teacher percent instance we believe an after school programs like this change since perhaps

some of us were little talks on a play field we could always someone there the results a lot of home for a lot of kids and they don't today and we think as a former probation officer in working like once every twenty hours of three and seven that's when the problems alcohol teen pregnancy drug to keep those schools open after school most young people have a place to go to get to be mentored they get to work with the adults they get to use the lab study of the athletic facilities we want to increase that they want to cut their budget they are three and a half billion dollars below where we are an education today and that's where the fight is going to be in this next week before you in congress and how that might stand right now sen hagel well the fact is served as both cases he was in i indicated they deserved additional dollars going to second year in elementary education in this republican led congress are very clear again is a policy of who do you trust your view do you want to

give the school districts more mandates and and more direction from washington or are you allow the teachers the school district passed it have to say a world where they will apply those resources that is the big difference and it's a legitimate difference in the end i understand that that's what this visit should be about options possibilities what the american people choose how to house the congressional republicans support a school voucher squares which are saying well republicans are not afraid one of the options and alternatives and allowing people who were trapped there in areas where the school districts are not as good as we see in some other states are school districts that were not afraid of competition we think of children for children these are no matter where they live or who their parents are worried their social economic status in life is a dessert options and the best teachers in the best schools we don't think that just because there were more money more money and we are pour more money into this that that's the answer the answer should be innovation the answer

should be to inspire the teacher's more and to help the teachers war and to help give them the tools they need it's about parents about our society it's all the dynamics of a complete environment that educate our young people frederick this is this is it's almost amusing remember that the republicans shut down the government because we wanted to spend more money on education now the gains we've had last couple years have come as a result of the direct intervention the president nine states stopping this republican controlled congress from sp cutting programs like education the reason we were able to get something for education last year that because we hung out to get them and now we have these german taking credit for what we did we fight for as result of president on this is that you know they talk about local control this is a trojan horse nobody disputes local control that we don't want to keep local control of schools away from schools but what we believe is it's important we do something about issues that they won't talk about let's talk about school construction we believe in school construction we believe local school

does not las vegas school districts and school districts last year over one hundred and ten million dollars in interest on the long boring they had to do for the school's that's not a penny of principle that's that said we we we have problems with education all the country let's do something about it the teachers that we need and vouchers that is a cruel hoax because even under their program will pay twenty five percent of the cost a private school where the people going to do they're there they they think they're going to get something that only twenty five percent the cost of private school is what a local kid was in a ghetto will get his pants will get put him in private school this is foolishness what we should do is recognize that we need to do something to make public education in america better that's what this debate is about and i don't have any dispute with jc watts which articles heart their hearts in the right place but it's the policies that are there who are women

education first last and always about a choke and we get stronger education and repeated again local control who ran one bomb higher high academic standards is about pauls they want the dollars to go to the department of education that can't pass an audit and less than i've had in the last two years they can tell us where they want to take us but they can't tell us where they band we want the dallas go to local school districts local teachers local administrators and out i don't understand what the heck it is fascinating talk about tax policy what with them the bush wants to do in an act think the tax was important given their latest waffles on occasion but it is about local control getting ad dollars at a washington to local school districts into the classroom they want to keep that in washington we want to send it home to local school bus and

that's what the fight is about is not about not having that get less divided the leaders say the start with the republican leaders in the house while the bill to eliminate the department of education live continually come under funding under us and funding for the british it's local control as important as his mother's upset here ninety three percent of that of the money for school vote comes from the local and state governments and we understand that but i can tell you this the local officials in michigan and around the country would allow for us to have a school construction program so they can relieve someone's property taxes people are playing in their home towns that would like to see more teachers i got sixty more teachers as a result of the hundred thousand people in my district that's helped reducing class size and that's helped quality education and of course we need a new and innovative ideas we need to be experimental the time i agree with trump and on that but you know vouchers as harriet said ninety percent of our children go to public schools ninety percent of our children in public schools and our resources are being

devoted what do we get there and one market and let's turn our attention to health care and to senator reid for the democrats senator in one of the big issues and health care in this campaign presidential and congressional as prescription drug coverage for seniors but despite this i should adds that viewers at home are saying they tell us they tell pollsters they're totally confused about competing plans so well it down to its essence what is the most important difference between the democrats' approach of the republican party and the republican plan is one that they put forward that would take care of the insurance companies we put forth a plan that takes care of the american people it sounds very simplistic but that's really true the same applies to other areas of our health care delivery system which are in big trouble with forty five million people but don't have health insurance and that the prescription drugs what is the essence of the democrats and why is it bader has at work will be the democrat plan works by giving people the ability to get their help from

medicare they get part of medicare point what republicans want to do is put it so that insurance companies would dictate what would happen it is so bad even though they try to throw the sop to the insurance companies that the insurance fund has come back and said it won't work don't do it that why would always simply want to enlarge medicare to make it so that people can have as a direct result of medicare prescription drug benefits the reason that's important on medicare came into being in nineteen sixty five there we was no need for prescription drug benefits but today after thirty five years prescription drug has become very important and every senior citizen to a team prescriptions filled every year and that with the high cost of prescription drugs it's actually essential to america the greatest country in the world with a health care plan for senior citizens would have a prescription drug benefit to medicare we give them one republican state senator hagel bias the republicans much better in your view sen reid

hasn't to represent the republican side in this very accurately first of all i think the american people should know that we democrats republicans set aside for the next five years forty billion dollars to initiate a prescription drug plans and so that is now in our car our budget authority and now what the republicans do is we set that money aside for additional money that is funded through medicare and by the way we have about four five different plans on the republican side and the author of one hour we use the private marketplace to give those seniors the options that we go after those who need it the most are lower income those who don't qualify for medicaid middle income and we get made discount drug prescription opportunity week cut off the cap of this thing so that they are not here with catastrophic expenses we use the private options just like the four of us have our medical plans through the federal government and we have a discount cards and works pretty well we get

thirty thirty nine percent discount so would we preserve the system the market system with the options we do have additional mice considerable monies set aside to let medicare take care of that we focus on those who need it the most in the middle class we captured so there's not a catastrophic drop comes in nine years since as i understand that two thirds of seniors now have some kind of private drug insurance what's wrong with the republicans' votes why not give subsidies to the insurance companies and and let seniors the remaining one third bite of the private market well only if i can i'll touch on finding that clear for one thing it's so fuzzy math and one french opposition because you know if you're gonna do the tax cuts that suggested he said they set aside fourteen million prescriptions billion to fourteen billion for prescription drug coverage and then of course juicy talked about why they set aside for education but sometimes as will double coming here if you're going to do the tax cuts

that they wanted what they're going to have the money for the prescription version of them have the money for the education is the same pot of money from both things but setting that aside for a second what's wrong with their proposal is that it would not help two thirds of those people who need prescription drug coverage we have about a third of the people in our country who have decent coverage through their union contracts are through the works another third really have very shaky coverage and often are getting dropped my teacher most insurance companies today they've dropped over a million people over the last year the decision was from both health benefits and health coverage and then another third have nothing at all the problem with their proposal is that it doesn't reach a new body in people the numbers on their proposal basically say that a little bit that you have to make some more in the neighborhood of less than fifteen thousand a year to be look a conventionally the subsidy well most of the people were seniors make a lot more than fifteen thousand dollars a year in income that they had coming in and we saw it doesn't really

cover a lot of people number one number two the other problem with that is not guaranteed ours is guaranteed under medicare will always be there it's well ron insufficient and your doctor will be able to get you are under our proposal medicare prescription drugs and then you get those fields and really if you have an hmo plan a private insurance plan with the roads which they're advocating that very gentleman just drop to one what they may not say that they don't get to the drug doctor strange congressman watts what guarantee is there that if you build the subsidy subsidy private insurance the private insurance really will cover everybody and not drop long mara the principles that should drive this this health care debate can still missing years is the prescription drug benefit those universal the amazing given the role parts of the fourth such vocal and in urban parts of the portage what its cost efficient and the seniors will have shorts david bonier harry reid starting

to jc watts were an ace system a federal insurance is that we have a choice if i don't like the system that i'm in now i can choose a better system i go to another system we have probably twenty fifteen twenty different plans that we can choose under the democrats' system if you don't like the system at your hand top you're on a lark you've got to live with it if we as members of congress can have to ask why can't we get so used to answer that because i think most people in this country singers who prefers the choice of medicare than be a journalist they have you know we have angels right now people are being dropped all over the country where people go to their doctor's asked for a prescription they'd get doctors get a check with the age of mostly originals don't deliver because the financially troubled the bacon bacon and that short in that they want to they want what they have and that's why wouldn't they want that forces that all of us have why not allow them to have that

choice saved that again is a policy issue and the democrats it's a washington knows best we know what's best for you as opposed to saying to those singers out there is looking for prescription drug benefit where much force you to do what's best for you in your intention was when we were just wanted one last word here the reasons jason so wrong on this was remember their plan only applies to people that are very poor and they would have a choice for our suppliers everybody everybody is covered under an era that's that as veterans of the fact is he well as i said the senate republicans to ruin your plan well you're going to get there was like a lot of the democratic co sponsor of the republicans but that but that's that's not true in fact a post racial slur are way up at one hundred thousand of income for innovators two hundred thousand for for couples but

we get your question you're in which is good question what guarantee is there that the age of mosul drop they're so because the medicare pays for the government pays for but they don't lie that's the difference in a republican versus the democratic plan we don't want government running your health care is that simple jaycees right republicans don't want that week hillary tried that in nineteen ninety three and that i didn't go very far even with a democrat congress it didn't go very far and i think again this is a very clear choice american public has between republicans and democrats if you like the government running your health care then you should vote for their plan like clinton medicare would prefer lower than these are our all these roles things like local control you know frank luntz unscripted this whole republican congress and they have these little buzzwords local control you want the government running your health care these are these are falling down house to say the fact that america under on our medicare prescription drug benefit the

government's violent programming more than the run medicare today and the same with education or not advocating a local control the evaporated taken away there is a common thread one that one gets when can we are then none of us can deny that we are the only congress in the history of the united states thats passed a prescription drug benefit and the democrats walked out we started that debate only congress this past a prescription drug benefit you have an artist the prescription house you republicans get the first question this time we turn to the subject of the economy let's follow our noses follow the money for a moment i will start with you senator reid the canvasses the middle of what even your own members call a spending three are trying to get to germany saw some of that and tommy homans piece double digit percentage increases and many different departments is that responsible are we're basically as suffering from

surpluses of excitement here when what we're suffering from as a congress that will not will not allow public debate last monday we had three out of the thirteen appropriation bills that have passed we have not been able to date with we hope the next congress that we control will be one where there will be debate there for two hundred years and more this country go on just fine by having extended debate that's where bipartisanship develops is being able to talk about issues we have not been able to debate education in the senate we've not been able to debate simple things like we'll show the school safety we have been able to debate the environment we have been able to do talk about minimum wage campaign finance reform we believe that we should be able to talk about the sentiment regarding regarding the economy of the happy at your question for example we have now with the bills we've passed so far where over ten billion dollars more than what the presidents even requested the

republican congress is doing anything to not allow us to date just to get us out of town but and as tom delay who's number two or three in the house i indicated in this conversation of the washington post last friday he said we're not going to let the president get any of what he wants and education and we cherish that debate we're glad we hope tom delay it's his republican friends to not allow us to have a debate on education this next week to senator hegel want to give it a crack of responding to what he had to say about the republicans in the senate also little bit about all the spending the language of a question in the comic idea that you know minor i answer that let your standard barrier and what else let's go back and see where we were we republicans to control congress in january nineteen ninety five that we had deficits as far as the eye could see and that no prospect for surpluses getting control of our spending until republicans got there what happened in nineteen ninety seven is working with the

democrats where were the president we passed the house budget act that dam produced and a couple years later a balanced budget first time since nineteen sixty nine that's been producer pluses which we're continuing to see and see those increases giving us or more flexibility to do more and pay down the national debt and as importantly welcome public know that because of this republican congress over the last six years working with a present working with our democratic friends and good strong monetary policy and that's been a tough hard choices made by business and labor in the eighties we have a strong enough economy now that we've been able to pay down about three hundred and fifty billion dollars in national debt we wanna keep going in that direction and also some mills happen in nineteen ninety seven a very significant tax cut capital gains tax cut i hear my friends on the democratic side talking about that big tax increase in nineteen ninety three that they like to point to as the real reason that we've done so well i don't think so when you look at productivity gains in some of these other issues that have really put this economy in a strong position it has

and that capital gains tax cut that that's what really did it all those things together not not just not just republicans that i think goes back to your original question why should the republicans stayed in charge well we'd been pretty good stewards of the government the last six years because the buyer senator hegel talks about of them the money and the reason why but the question i guess i'm curious about is that your own congressional budget office says that at the current rate of spending in these appropriations bills which are now working their way through the house and the senate two thirds of the surplus will be eaten up in in ten years is this responsible all that surplus of beaten up under their tax proposals and certainly surplus should not be eaten up overspending or tax proposals a woodchuck forgets he's a like a four year and egypt each year that's missing in terms of the history of this of this deficit spending the discussion we're having today people need just to look back to the eighties and early nineties when an abortion

rate and we were running three hundred thousand three hundred billion dollar deficits annually ninety three we pass the budget controversial budget that cut two hundred program slash many of the spending items that people have raised here this this evening and we we we got our house in order and you started to see after ninety three coming down gradually of our deficits at the point now we have a surplus but we have no you're into that surplus is going to be there or ten years down the road the economy could build a water and seven eight five four three two years from now we don't know that so why are we spending the way we are why are we are proposing tax cuts those surpluses doing while find ourselves in the situation that we were an inmate i don't think so what we're proposing is putting aside three hundred billion dollars to reduce that national debt that was the democrat ed we believe we need to bring the national debt down and use the interest that the taste of that debt about two and fifty billion dollars a year

and invest that in the things we're talking about the investment would be from rain down the on the interest on the national debt tax collector david i think of wealth when the tax increase and ninety three the tax increase in nineteen ninety three that not one republican voted for you raise taxes to get money into the appropriations process so you can spend it that was the objective to get more money into the system to spend it and you look at the cbo numbers congressional budget office agency that scores everything that we do to determine how much is going to cost you look at what the democrats offered in nineteen ninety five we became the majority and what we offered they set our budget would balance in two thousand and two they said the democrats' budget even with that large increase in ninety three they said beyond two thousand and two you would have deficits of two hundred billion dollars plus as far as i can say so that tax increase look at look at the data look at the statistics

look at the numbers look at the facts they're tax increase in nineteen ninety three still would've kept us had they been in the majority would have kept us any deficit position as far as the eye could say so i wanted take that ninety three tax increase on the table because that that did not reduce our deficit the spending spree you know the president has said time and time again on seven of the thirteen appropriations bills that we've passed he's threaten vetoes on all of these appropriations bill because he said there's not enough spending so we passed thirteen bails out of the house or representatives that was all thirteen appropriations bills that was under the budget gap and the president said i want a vehicle is no because not enough spending an idiot idiot idiot ghana battles near the rose and the republicans that wants to spend more money that the president has a plan i know the jc would like to forget the nineteen ninety three budget deficit reduction act that's what's called a dozen tax increase because your weepy

without a tax increase for the top one percent of earners in america the rest the people that attacked the trees and what did that do most inflation was unemployment in forty five years we have a deficit as david has said it was over three hundred billion dollars you're now in a surplus we created twenty two million new jobs most those high wage jobs we have a federal government today as a result of that nineteen ninety three and that is the same size when president kennedy was president that's what i wanna forget about it that was a very tough vote and in fact some of our colleagues last elections the result of that very tough of that paid off people like phil graham pete domenici they prophesied dumas result of that budget passing and they have been proven wrong i carry on my desk in the senate whenever they come to talk about one apple out what their quote so the fact is we we we need to make sure that we do something about the deficit reductions that the debt that we have five trillion dollars we

will rue the day if we have bad times which we will have and we've not significantly pay down the debt let's look forward a bit this surplus that either doesn't exist well the last two years it is is that israel and what will we project effort to all one when we anticipate it will be real but somebody years exactly right we don't know what the next ten years brands we do know for example that they're within that to me your period we're going to start to see the seventy seven million baby boomers start to come onto the toilet rolls we were going to see this huge obligation out there that we are we are not committed to which also brings up the question of prescription drugs and always other programs that there were talking about one promising doesn't think so at all all these new obligations that we want to add onto the obligations we know now having with what's coming has to be factored into these assumptions that that give us

these projected budget surplus is now a couple of things that they're important as well when we talk about well what we're doing here with this this debt reduction issue that harry talks about is is very important and you asked about what's real or what has really been a look at about three hundred and fifteen billion of that down and also i wanted ad for the record it was the republicans who said last year that we should take one hundred percent of the sows security surpluses and one hundred percent of the medicare surpluses lock them up in a locked box which our democratic friends in the senate meanwhile us to get to it passed the house has done that it was a republican idea the president said no let's take sixty two percent of mosul security surplus is not a hundred percent is the republicans who the responsible stewards hear about debt reduction of stress to that promise well all i know is that before bill clinton came here we

had huge deficits on an annual basis and with his stewardship of seriousness something eloquently stated we have i created an atmosphere together with the private sector obviously that has provided jobs which is regarded a surplus which is lowered interest rates we have to turn the economy around and it was true the economic stewardship of this president and democratic congress and we've been able to do that and now we course we've had some cooperation from republicans and some of these issues all but i must tell you every time we get into the last three weeks in congress and we are in the last week i hope that this congress it's the president who has gotten his way on the budget it's in the president's budget that has prevailed and jc mention that we're an anomaly said six years seven of the thirty appropriations bills they've only passed two appropriation bills were two weeks into the appropriate the new year and if i could just not doing their work and in addition to not doing their work their insinuating that they're that they take responsibility and an

end credit one more secretary we won it turns out i had to cut you off margaret and that lessened to carry is america's role in the world and it's the republicans' turn to lead off center hagel as we all know the constitution gives the president the power to run foreign policy he's the commander in chief he negotiates all agreements and trade and security matters should americans going to the polls in november take fire fares into consideration in deciding to vote for for congress and if so where is the difference most stark between the two parties like urge you on the six to try to look forward rather than back yes mara first your question regarding should the american public factor in foreign policy absolutely and what if for no other reason all six billion of this today in the face of the earth live in a global community underpinned by global economy and i don't think we need to look much beyond what happened in asia a couple of summers ago with what we thought was that thailand's currency the baht was

devalued and that spread to the crisis which then i went to europe to russia south america so yes foreign policy is a very significant dynamic of the leadership responsibilities of leadership the next president a state is going to be confronted with an immense foreign policy challenge what happened last three weeks at the middle east the balkans just this week at marshall joe from north korea was to in united states this affect peace and stability in the world that affects us if it if it affects prosperity for all peoples in effect a national security it affects our trade effects on revenues the project out surpluses if we can trade if we have high energy prices if we have well at thirty eight dollars a barrel that continues to do that or worst shortages but that doesn't work on an e so yes must take into consideration all psychosomatic these take as a given that they should where you see the differences is most stark

between the parties in a clear cut oh i think they're not as clear cut as we are domestically because i think on sensitive issues you know arguments stop at the water's edge winner national interest is at stake as it should be how what i think we all wanna see peace in the middle east i think most of us i don't know what all this water mixture with if that happens it whether with the economic support to make it work ah there is a difference in terms of supporting international institutions for instance that we've been trying for years to use the very un deuce we think that's important to be a participant in the un the republicans primarily have been an opposition to doing that we think they're somewhat irresponsible although that's for some administrative changes which we think are responsible that we've agreed with we think they've been done we think we have the full clarity innovation on i think what our national values are at stake here and

we're advocating democracy human rights and the ability to enter markets are those issues are very important domestically people and i think it's important that they understand that the debates and those issues affect them personally what we do for instance with respect to trade affects them well but what we say with regard to human rights to fix it because if we can't defend human rights abroad our own human rights and civil rights in this country are in one of the affected the congressman watts is congress's ability to influence on many of the issues that the senator hegel and kung someone you mentioned quite limited but the president takes the lead here will include the president is the bill kelso on foreign policy on on trade agreements which in which we've had a chance to discuss over the last four five years in congress or i think as we go for that i think there's two things we need to run i think we need to be careful that we do

that we need to be adamant about one i think we must communicate with strength and clarity and two i think it's important that the next president lay out a vision for american german foreign policy an end and bring the american people along take that vision to the american people and that and then sell them on our look back on the decade of the eighties reagan bush and the wider question foreign policy because the communication is strong solid we had diplomacy around the world had a steam around the world i think as we go forward we have to consider those things where we are today and also keep our military strong that affects one of them has a role and less committed to them well i hope not i think don't look at the president's budget i don't think going away six years on this in the first year that the president has submitted a budget that that exceeded his

previous years and numbers we've had a ramp up those budgets are bs or one armed services committee we've had a ramp up those numbers every year including the issue would put about one hundred billion dollars more in national defense and the president has requested center how would you delineate the differences between the parties on things that congress really fx first moments in my fan jc he we were watching him as a football star we watch him play football during some are eighteen years we had all kinds of problems with one portion of that was the time of iran contra or a lot of poems and then so i think we have to recognize it all administrations congress reviews what they do but i think more than i you know i am on the senate floor everyday trying to move legislation long i think the most important thing i go back to it is we have been enable to debate to talk about issues there's nothing i think more important to national security than having a good domestic policy i think that that is what we have to stress because no one disputes that what president clinton has done and tried to do in the middle east we all

support what he's trying to there what happened cause so but i think we have to talk about is why we are unable to talk more i think this program is wonderful there's an indication how the republicans alike even do that our speaker hastert was invited her work and second string division know that he said he and the newspaper he was quote was redesigned this is a waste time that's why he's not here this is not a wasteland we need public debate republicans even on public television don't want public debate and i wanna be mean spirited with my friends over there that they even tried out a deal on public television well let me is that was back in eighty one football probably a reasonable and when i write you wants to know did we we want as you're born you know i think there's a limit so i never said we congress doesn't do so the president has to be the bill that you can allow for wanting for a

five and thirty five people in the house and senate trying to determine foreign policy on trade agreements are misunderstood and you're coming into it center had all start with you and so many the center's discuss tonight congress has tried but failed to enact legislation with its tax cuts whether it's prescription drugs why should we see new tonight wearing a lot of things a boy one another why should voters going into the voting booth think this hundreds and possibly any different why should they be excited about voting for house or senate candidate or first of all there was not finger pointing here the democrats and republicans were presented here tonight were presenting to your audience the differences in who we are what we believe are policies that that's the way the system should work margaret it's not a matter of point fingers it's a matter of choices and then we must move beyond that let's take their votes we have our debate and win a lot of the next

challenge and i think they're couple factors sure that we should play a little bit and that was actually touched upon with what you're leading piece of first the impeachment that both houses that issue that we had to take and that was very difficult for the congress united states have no question that it impacted our relationship with each other how could it not we spent a lot of time on a lot of emotional draining and relationships of went backward there i think the sheer to have to bear in mind that this is a political year that doesn't come very often you got the white house up for grabs in both houses of congress up for grabs don't happen very often we are going to have a new president and they'd rather congress so therefore you have a certain amount of bilin paralysis in the system i'm not defending that's enough white but that's part now should we do better can we do better absolutely do i think we will do better i think we will with a new president and maybe a new congress or at least new leadership in congress with that big problems that had big challenges that we

must deal with for this country in the world today and i look forward to to get the last word there is a very strong bipartisan effort in the next congress do to really do something about these big challenges ahead do you think the next congress commissioned by new will be any more bipartisan will have more achievements and i felt like you know the better we get the majority back and i think we will reach which to the other side though because of that we do get a better be a closer margins and we had when we were in the jury we're going to have to work with republicans who wanted the portrait of them for religious and i just i'm just a question of tone here for just a second because i think it's important tone is very important because we have to respect each other and doing our work but we also have to are you with passion and i have the wagons around minimum wage i think about their one of their lungs making five fifteen an hour and they have should maybe a single parent with two children and you know you can make about one thousand dollars a unit which makes engine and she probably works

two or three jobs and as a result you've probably never seen her kids when i can get excited about that i can get excited about the fact that seniors don't have prescription drugs and have to choose between keeping food we thought was our issues of passion and so people want not the field were watching us today that we need to be too polite to me politeness is important and respect is important work we'll be able to do it with passion and say no you didn't give us a chance as harry said to have this debate and you ought to be able to say was that while you didn't do what you said you were going to do and i think that's healthy do you think voters should feel good about the congress well i add that morning i worked as these days than it is it is true i mean there's always going to be partisan differences on on educational policy different songs foreign policy on trade agreements like a david barna has a tremendous passion when it comes to these issues about the same and by the same

token i feel passionate that getting people on eliminating marriage tax for two hundred dollars for couples like a broken by that your school clothes are pay help pay for the house payment on a car payment or car insurance just as passionate about those things and look at what this republican congress is that we've eliminated the deficit will have doubts anymore we pay down the debt we reformed welfare we've given per child tax credits for her work in people out there we'll spend the social security medicare surpluses anymore we got to know things and i think the american people like the fact that we performed in those that center invariably finalist case he's trying to be a democrat in congress the fact is we need the one summer just broken record that we need need more discussion the debate mary stacks and when they would let us offer our land we had a vote on theirs or nothing else ours is much more reasonable and got rid of every problem with marriage tax penalty we believe that's what should happen and has as far as having debate want but you always vote on it we

tried to we couldn't the president hasn't can test in the bills as to amount of money is not because of an environmental writers and bills don't mean anything if next congress with a democratic congress will be a little meat with republicans because of the full debate that's how you develop consensus and kabul right into a lively that they're thank you all for very much and that includes the national portion of debate night two thousand are thanks to the republicans senator hegel and congressman watts and the democrat senator reid and congressman bond year for joining us tonight stay tuned now in many of our pbs stations for a local candidate forums and join us online for special pbs debate night website and a shorter watches the night as the news hour's jim lehrer moderates the final presidential debate from st louis i when i fall and i'm margaret warner thanks for being with us tonight it is

well the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to a pbs station from viewers like you ms bier yes nice bed is