thumbnail of Seminar: Big Sur; Scientific approach to the unconscious, part two
Hide -
If this transcript has significant errors that should be corrected, let us know, so we can add it to FIX IT+
Right we need to find there is a power not against nature or over in a chair and that against us through there which is what the great theater of our objective technology has diminished the human being of the earth with the same kind of rate that we are exploited and manipulated moocher and I believe that this reversion to the nature of the one or physical nature of the destructive destructive within a context that I will purport phenomenological those that have wired to another plan to get the experiment of behavior to psychology and I'm saying that it's exceedingly urgent that we put it into a context that will give it a humane reading that the technique. Let me go and get more specific talk about
phenomena phenomenology. Yes I'll try to illustrate it. The road phenomena out of T comes from the Greek word which means to show for it. And this in turn mean technically with a Greek the to bring to the light of day. And this in turn comes in the course which means light together word phosphorescent. Then when it is as things give themselves in their own light of another day. Unfortunately in modern deterioration of words which is so often happened with these important words like math and symbols on have become a negative word and phenomenon is taken to mean and the apparent this is not its meaning it's using Internet it's riginal meaning it rather is the reality which gives birth to the appearance of
appearances is something that you have me mixed up. Contrary inconsistent and this is why one speaks of the phenomena. This external thing a simple surprising thing phenomenology is really the reality in me that gives breath to the many and the many appearances of our fuel who know me know that he is a return to the things themselves. That's a good patient from the father of modern phenomenon the phenomenology memory hussar and I talk a moment about her he was a prize for her who at Freiburg he lived in 1859 to 1930 aid almost to get the exact dates of
pride in her I would tend to elect a psychologist with us of great significance other we don't much know about it now in Vienna and the seventh of the century. An immigrant. And her Cheryl continued the work of brain time which is what comes later in phenomenology main work was published in 1900 which is the exact day provides a framework in the interpretation dreams the hussar into father of modern phenomenology and its mother with back to the thing that he believed that modern culture has been led astray by our concern with the natural method that this consists of burning things up into mechanisms and fragments and that isn't a kind of G-d the more we
know about the mechanisms of behavior the insect the more it is possible that we hide from the more we have. Who is to not see the reality of the person we are dealing with now. Posts are a body that at the time to the future must be founded on a broader and deeper basis. And he said this as by Means of Natural Science and kept us from seeing. In their own reality in their own showing for them that's what we're after is not a building up part to arrive at a house. I'd love to illustrate this architecture is beautiful and I see bad architecture architecture the individual
item up where you put a Spanish house next to a colonial house built brick next to a French Pole imported from God knows where and you've got a tremendous conglomeration that is god awful and you have to try to be when you are in our modern cities it is quite a foot. And Bernie that now if we were him. And we would end this with a good academic and Oriental act I don't know how they go and I said Mark I don't like you can do and how much you can buy this little Mongar we build a house up on the Internet and what you do with it or you know the worth of the current through the mountains and the meaning and you live
with people through the Arctic you live with people are going to live in that house and then what you eventually construct that comes from simply putting an unkind creed according to the brain and what you do then build a show there that comes out of the land and with people comes out of the trees would look at it kind of the air with the Earth doing than houses. I remember once in the helix of the lichen up the name of my friend and there we were up in the packet looking at some of the Old Hundred who have been here. And like the others. Her and him had a very strange thing that I hadn't realized about the doing and if the
protective house these people needed protection they made Windows because they couldn't cut a big hole but they needed there he needed nor are they the people who've been in and the House and the company. Architecture is like the early Newington the fact that the completely an expression of the soul of a conscious human being living in a locale. I think think Frank Lloyd Wright said something like that. Can you do it out in California. Now this comes in France this art not by adding part on part and also not by human intuition. They get into phenomenology in intuition but it's not intuition. It's not into that. It's the act of experiencing the total reality of the only thing you got namely the consciousness of the human being who experiences his
world and sudden took place in the time that phenomena energy is to let the thing show for to let the phenomena whether it's the land or wind or wind friend Everett. The scientific experiment like the station I gave that night the breakthrough was the girl of her speaking in the proletarian rather than my theory of speaking to them. Not those of you who are interested in the technical side of the house or all develop the following steps and its phenomenology 37 in the sack with conscious. The only thing we've got and then we then find an act of consciousness the second step is we are aware that it is always conscious of something. Isn't that kind of sad that I'm conscious of
how a person in the car is related to an object you call subject an object therefore in every act of conscious are present together. Even when in the third step in this act of consciousness whether it is a mere reflection of the outside reality idea that I'm happy that I was then taken right before that the way it works is no sensation of simply right. You perceive the thing before didn't attack you then you're right. Otherwise it doesn't have any effect. You know your whole orientation to it already. The forum in which this sensation is going to occur where a given sensation means something
very different every different person now said cursor it's not true or at least in the graphic the name get these things going on around us increases as you get into a ROM in character. Not the way you experience and I think us is entirely correct here. Took an awfully strong dogma of empiricism to develop the idea that we are simply the product of information from out there to the grind of planet and this is the third death there with intentionality and it's going to go through. When I talked about here last summer intentionality is what gives experience meaning intentionality is the structure by which experience has meaning to us and is maintained and they need to feel that and to be content of the things that we have that and that's what works in my vision. I haven't heard of one
instance and that is possibly the frog and some of that may not have the clarity they should have. What you perceive in determined by the intention in the intentionality is what gives the structure of experience. Meaning this is the period that works. In Husserl's phenomenology we must bracket cars in the back. If we are going to understand the thing in it as it shows itself temporarily bracket cause and effect. I think part of the reason he said this was not that he didn't believe in cause and effect but he believed that modern western man is concerned with cause and effect that he never sees the reality. Feeling that that meant something. Any movie in particular that I think it would cause. Now that immediately
nine times out of the gate on the theory and the reality of the thing and at the time to give you said that you have to bracket cause in the fact that you have and that what is that. Quite apart from any car when it is my creation. I forget nothing and I don't like to think. That they start thinking too much about the things I get a good history but I try to get it later and I try to get them with a helpmate and I curse your faith in what I do to try to get my own self clear. I mean Prince of possible for a kind of try to get out of my mind the other thing I'm working on thank you for the phone call I just
got and let me come. And I tried to let him the phenomenon that this may be whom he has done anything to talk about this doesn't mean I'm passive It takes much more alertness on my part to let to hear what this man thing than me and start thinking here is a father and I know when I'm tired I'm good with Helena. For me if I think formulate a beautiful complexion again the more difficult that the opening of one I'll do the phenomenon that is this other human being while he talks he says something that I'm in the air with my girlfriend. I can start thinking of a theory of God. I'm going to man as the next person in
my. It's good. But at this point they would get. I don't even know what they mean like some people can invent which means that in the course of 15 minutes of stroking the golden having orgasms they have the obvious something very different. This man I'm thinking I was on the last patients that came into the gym but then he and his wife had been home she was in a mental hospital. She'd been home home for the weekend then becomes a few months from home and they have a Nicholas home. You've taken it back to my hospital on the way back from the police picked up on the news how unfair with their going up to his house immediately went to bed with him and he was sympathetic. Now then he comes in and he saw a story in the U.S. post. Course if I think about impotent I would have missed the whole point of what he's trying to get across
to me throw something at him for then but it is penis penis I think is the only phenomenological a live one in the drama of the penis now. Something more is going on here than can you lay a woman on that what's really going on in the human being a tremendous pattern of conflicting feelings. The software is why. Well I don't know what but an infinite number of things that much richer and much more complex much deeper than a cause in the brain. Now I have to be able to hear the bracket cause in effect I can start thinking about what's going on with you and your mistress that you should have been other than that is not the world that is being presented. The mistake of many phenomena is that they bracket cause and
effect and they think the this is a genuine heir of the European phenomenologists to say that the genetic The background is in port. We don't hear about the childhood about the cause that they're in a prison. Now I think of fall back on the part about the genetic background signal when you tell me about this. The man said by the very sophisticated man very thin and great in their richness. He knows all about telling about his background as a refugee and immigrated from home. Very important he thinks Who do I want to hear. But this will not have real meaning for them if you
have space that is now like a park and have meaning and it is part of a reality that my words are going to be just like the colors you know and the likelihood greatly. But these are his background in Hungary as an isolated Jew got expelled is going to have meaning when it comes up as it will and I worked with him when he is telling me not about the fact that he was scared by the narrative kind of painted. But rather when time comes up it's a real lonely rejected feels the same experience all over again or dreams about it. I must take him on and I'm going to take him and he shines for
I'm going to take him and he gives himself to me and unless I can do that then I do not know. My college in the fact might be temporarily bracket and also the genetic the cause and effect ought to come in the genetic background at the point where the part of the world in which which is showing for it I don't think the things occur very early and I think for the first week maybe a month or so because of the fact things aren't really what the basis. You already try to get across to your question is there a world in which I can be begin to feel as if you're going to be a world in which time heard no here here. I'd love to some day the ten I talk with that length about the phenomenological given to me live and here you can
make a list and you can make it here and I can make an effort to listen to the words. But whether I can hear whether I can open myself. Whether it's being experience isolated word that I can. But rather experience a human being who is probably in general some desperation to open himself in the world. Generally these are human beings who in this particular way these of them open themselves in a world before the phenomenological approach and it begins with the capacity to let her know that this human being with reality in this world together. In my consulting role to let this go
for it and to know it. I know here I know you know intellectually I mean I know the way the intellect when you have sex intercourse experience that part of it. Now the DEP with her oh resod by going to these steps in phenomenology you arrive at the entrance to the phenomena you arrive at the essence of how the essence of impotence if that were the problem. I hear Plato get or hear her surrogate put her mic and I'm not sure you can take that. It gets very complex ourself so you know this is where the bickering to the eidetic reduction if you want to read the article by host of The Atlantic about the numbers you read a lot about the idea that reductions of these reductions would go
on in a disciplined mind in which the phenomenon of how this is what I'm working with I try to understand how well selected point and I go through all of these descriptions of houses that are at now. I must then divest myself of a number of external things cost in effect and get that out of my mind background and look at that other thing again. Or who built the house or how much it cost them to get that out. I'm going to divest myself of the cultural forces I have to explain it in a way that people will like. Will my colleagues approve me. I'm going to make it impersonal. Somebody who thing a breakfast this morning we mustn't going to get into it must be so nice and objective and like God above every thing.
Oh they tried to revive some of that from my mind and then go through certain steps of consciousness for this book was good to me I very much like the Oriental steps in this that I think very much so. And these are very difficult and very complex and crediting nobody. I've never met a phenomenologists to believe you can go terribly far with them. I think however they do have tremendous I mean but whether they arrive that he believes is eidetic reduction at the essence of the phenomena you ultimately arrive at a pure. Thing I don't know. My thing I don't know me George I don't believe it. I prefer to leave the I presently the Atlantis with God. I think Plato was right in making a myth that that is what we're talking about the fact that Plato realized that you might say that
because nobody explained anything without them in essence presuppose. But nobody are to live in the US. Otherwise. What would you have. I mean this is what heaven is for a mythology. No Plato puts it there. I think we in human life live or with intention between Earth and existence and every effort I think I arrive at is in essence to this partly conditioned and bias and prejudice by the fact that I am an existing low man who came from a little town in Michigan whose knowledge is limited who his intelligence is limited. Who doesn't know everything even his prejudices get into the picture in some way or other whose need just perhaps more respectable on the part of the picture. Now this is the existential reality that always is in the dialectical relation with
this pure reality pure phenomena and we'd better content ourselves with the humble position. Being always between the two but this was my point in the moment when I summarize phenomenology I want at this point in our play that it's very important that there is a moral characteristic that goes along with that of humility because anybody that thinks he sees the phenomenon pillar is a dangerous man. If it's possible to be exploited and dominating and to rankle with psychological things and the Spirit of Things as it is with physical things and it's even more possible I think the most dangerous therapist of all is a therapist who believes he sees the put patients in purity can see exactly what the patient is doing he is not there as is said by some of the phenomenologists that have somewhat been in the movement I've been connected with it
and made me some quite sad Sometimes I had something to do with introducing this stuff in America. No what we said as we said during our tour and we look at the phenomenon we know our subject object difference no symbols we see the real reality. Now you never do and you might as well realize that you are if I may say this California Mike you are as much a product of original sin as anybody you know. Not all of us. We are out of my ass by the fact that we are individuals. The original sin of what I was doing fornicating roses or anything else that has do with the fact that Adam and Eve were individuals and now know they are and the fact that I am an individual means that no matter how disciplined and consecrated I am I still only partially understand you and my humility will save me from them dominating but if I am your thing and the I believe that
this kind of humility which I think is the real meaning of original then it is a kind of human ability that open the truth and then characterize when we deal with patients or reality characterized with a reverence for the other person and of course the humility a capacity to realize that reality the patient is always more than we will understand and I think that it gives us the best of this. And to hear rather than to force our own patterns on the other person. Now this is apparent this is the moral of this that hooks are always talking about. And I do it very very much. Even though I don't think that you do arrive at that particular essence though you are they should live in relation to the case. This is been seminar big serve featuring this week the second in a series of four programs
Seminar: Big Sur
Scientific approach to the unconscious, part two
Contributing Organization
University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
If you have more information about this item than what is given here, or if you have concerns about this record, we want to know! Contact us, indicating the AAPB ID (cpb-aacip/500-zw18r706).
Episode Description
This program, the second of two parts, presents the second portion of a discussion led by Dr. Rollo May.
Other Description
Discussion and lecture series from Esalen Institute at Big Sur, Calif., headed by Michael H. Murphy devoted to exploring the psychological nature of man.
Media type
Embed Code
Copy and paste this HTML to include AAPB content on your blog or webpage.
Producer: Esalen Institute
Speaker: May, Rollo
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 67-30-4 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:28:55
If you have a copy of this asset and would like us to add it to our catalog, please contact us.
Chicago: “Seminar: Big Sur; Scientific approach to the unconscious, part two,” 1967-07-05, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed August 20, 2022,
MLA: “Seminar: Big Sur; Scientific approach to the unconscious, part two.” 1967-07-05. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. August 20, 2022. <>.
APA: Seminar: Big Sur; Scientific approach to the unconscious, part two. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from