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Exploring the child's world. Was the child his father to the man as we hope for a world of men of good will. We must look to the conditions of the child's world to achieve it. So we search for the laws ways and means the sources of the capable spontaneously whole adult. It is not strange that the world of the disturbed child throws light on childhood in general. Also Father Francis Duffy chairman of the Department of Sociology at Duquesne University was not at first looking for this light when he started working with the disturbed child. He found however that it is not that the disturbed a delinquent child is completely removed from society rather that his position is more extreme
and so its obviousness offers us a sharper clearer insight into the world of children to share the fruit of his research funded duffing into cane University presents a series of recorded interviews with delinquent children followed by a short discussion in which the child and his problems are explored for insight. Here is Father Duffy to preview the problems of the child who speaks in exploring the child's world. Father Duffy. Some few years ago I sat between Phil Murray and a steel executive. All three of us were to address the Knights of equity in an informal discussion before the banquet started the Steelmen said we have no quarrel with the workers we just want to be sure that the wheels of industry keep rolling. And Mr Mary replied We have no quarrel with the rolling wheels. We just want to be sure that our workers aren't under them. Today's interview I see Clarence as a boy under the wheels. See how you feel about this child who lives in a household of violence threats rejection
and wholesale insecurity. The boy describes himself as a quiet one mixed up confused and scared. Let's listen to him as he further explores his world. Hello what's your name. Where are you Catholic or Protestant or what do you go to procure school. Catholic school a public school. I go to public. Do I get pretty well there. It's ok sometimes. At the time when it isn't OK what seem to be wrong. The kids are only thankful roasters and they think they can get their hands on and they call you names too. Yes or what they call you mostly so I say just because you don't fight. It's just I like to be alone at times. I don't want to be browsing too much with those particular children or don't you like to be bothered with everybody.
There bear in mind I'm not disposed to play with them. The only ones I can cooperate with was one of two kids. So you don't really have too many friends. Not too many. These other children the ones you don't like they tease you. Yes sir how can I mean names like when my mother comes up to the school. They're start calling me names. Then the one to your office tell fibs or mean things and what names hurt you the most now like they're the only No. Just when they start to talk about my dear father that I take it that your father is dead. Yes or do you now have another father a stepfather. Yes well how many children does he have. Here is three of us. And there's five but that's eight altogether. He pretty nice to you. No sir. Is is he more strict with you than he is with his own children.
He struck the five of us. And I guess too well. Sometimes he plays a one off for his own children. Other times he hits them and throws them up against yours and things. Yes sir. Did he ever do anything like that to you. I believe eight I don't know how many times. What was his for just looking around. Laughing or something or. You feel like you might get on his nerves. You might as well say he's kind of mixed up in the head. Say he worked out they were fathers crazy people. They need treatment. So my mother thinks that this probably what makes him like that because he's been working with them so long. Do you remember your real father well yes or you never be the same let my mother you know. Sure she was all in the picture. Yes. Is she ordinary pretty nice to you though.
Does she try to make up to you for what your stepfather does. She makes I laugh for you. She and my mother and she probably loves you back to yesterday. And she shows it yesterday how she shot what way she's nice she's kind. She tries to do good things for me like a nice mother should. You're her favorite. Well not exactly the smallest one is her favorite. And what about the house that you live in. When I was at home I had one for myself thanks to a downstairs drunk running software that my uncle gave him the baby in the afternoon when he have too bad when I see a door to each bathroom. You have two bathrooms too. Yes your kids can go in and vote. I say do you have any friends and many boyfriends. Rhonda exactly two or three. That's about all.
You go with you. Do you trust him. So. Sad for him. So Sometimes he's OK. Then the next thing you know he's doing something bare and did you do something bad to come here. You can't you know so what do you do. I came up here because I step for I there was a train so good. He was mean to us. He has to be this before they were married in there we think they have been married five or six years and you were here before once or twice. Let me see. Three times. First time I was in saving. That's used of the parent for the children and therefore I will yes. Yes that was before my dad died so recently five of us then. I always was born in Pittsburgh with three or four of us.
And how do you get along with the step brothers step sisters. They're kind of nice. You know they're like babies they want to play or they like you just are. Only he will see you. What does he ever hurt them the way he hurt you in your real brothers. Yes or he knocks them against foreign troops. Once he does it to all of us. BEGICH managed to embody my comedy you're something on TV you they start laughing a little bit or something. He grabs them by the church and shouts you go in a watched saying all right you just say Blair French more we'll take the mobsters and beat them. Do you do well in school or poorly. I do fear fear. The kinds of things you are afraid of parents want things let's see just
dying or something like this. There I just want peace and you get peace sometimes. Are you more peace when you're alone or when you're with other people. I like to be alone. You don't feel comfortable with boys or girls your own age or with adults. I like to be with my own age. I like to play not rough games just play a little bow or something. That's about all. Did you ever consider finishing high school going to college. Good job where you could yes or what are you doing about that. I'm trying to save saving stamps but I haven't got a wound to what I. Have. To wade through stamps my brother he had he was one of them now. So he gave them to me. He has a job boy now. Working for the country. What would you like to be from doctor. Medical medical doctor. Yes or
workplace or something. Oh you I forgot you are Catholic or were you always a Catholic. I was careful about four or five years. That's about all your mother Kathy too. She's a Protestant I think when your stepfather he's there so I can honestly say for him he doesn't go to church. Does he do much drinking. He doesn't drink he takes a levels. So like when they're having a party yourself that's about all. And do any of the boys give you a hard time. Now most of the time they bother me about the same kind of bar that you get in school so you know the big ones where they play around too much. They hit you in the head with shoes were taken away by the ears. Poor thing.
Never have any real scary dreams sometimes are they about people or animals or things or what people are people and in the dreams of these people do something to you or they try to do something to you torture me. And what form does the torture Take that they try to welcome you. I'm mislabeling. I started yelling in my sleep. Next thing I know I'm yelling somebody is after you in your dreams. Yes sure. Do you ever recognize who they are. My grandmother sometimes my stepfather. I believe about the most ridiculous things mostly. And it was the worst thing that you ever feel you ever did. One time I went to church I forgot I forgot to go to go to question. I was just giving up on New York. Sister came up behind me and the priest were just ready to put the horse in my mouth and I couldn't do
nothing about it. So she took me off to the yard. She made me go back to my seat I said I'd go and help my mother. She works with them some days. She does housework housework and who cares for the little ones when she's working. Let's see a mostly B on a Saturday. He's out of work WHITE No I think. So he has to take you know the kids until he goes back to work. Was this a pretty dangerous procedure since he beat him up and throws him against a fighter. He rode his temple. Sometimes he leaves my little sister. So Evan you're so well as to watch the house she can do things like a 10 year old she can watch she's pretty intelligent. You feel that you get enough attention at home. The bit nervous you they make you feel well you seem to like you. Do they do things that include you when my mother likes me but I don't know why he
doesn't like me he hates me. You feel s you. You hate him return too well might as well say you have to give best but I hate him. Now go me. I just don't want to be bothered with them. I see. Well if you were nicer to you you'd probably be nicer to him would you. Yes or maybe on the other hand if you were nicer to him he would be nicer to you you know you don't think so. He would just be nice to me I would be nicer to him. It has to start with him right. But I think you already know that you can't control what he does or anybody else does. That's true. So where would I have to start is being nice. You would have to start with me. I guess you never thought this out for yourself before now so they can work another way. If somebody doesn't like you you can tell it right away can't you.
Yes and so if you don't like your stepfather you can tell it right away. He told my mother once they were having an argument he said that he didn't want us and that he hated us from day one. I did hear you feeling that he might resent having to use his money to support you. Your brother's saying we get the insurance check supposed to be for us. He goes out and buy scores or something because some other kid can sure because see he can't do nothing about it. Not unless she could tell a judge or something close to her and she might lose her three youngest kids and she wants all of us. So in some way she tries to make up by being nice for the times that he's nasty to you. Yes or Someday you're going to grow up and get marry Clarence. Would you like a museum kind of a man as your stepfather you know say
what kind of a boy do you think you are now. Well I can honestly say sometimes I'm bad. Sometimes I'm good and sometimes I'm bad. Kind of in between. God made me this way. And when you're bad what are you doing. Nothing much but write once in a while. So a couple bad boards. You get into fights with the other children. You mean the babies. Yes well sometimes they get on my nerves and sometimes I hate them when my stepfather comes home the baby says I did something to him. So little was going he doesn't know too much about it. He's about to going to have. He says I gave him a spanking but he can hardly talk to my stepfather doesn't know what he's saying. So. That's pretty lucky for you that he does it sometimes. My brother has to go away and live with my uncle and aunt cause my step fry the
kid didn't get along with him too much. His brothers older than you. Yes sir. He's already out of the house to live with your uncle. He's out of the house. Now there are seven which is eight seven percent for Gary. You know is it the orphanage. So Dan makes six of us. I see two girls three babies in me. That's about all. Just six at home. Five and me wait here for me. Yes. What's the worst thing ever happened to you Clarence. Who's in there brother that was the worst choice. Well now as we went to the funeral home I was once more. And when near my mother she bent over to kiss and I said he was sleeping and I saw that she started crying. So we are starting she went over to kitchen this movie came along to pull me off from my father because I wouldn't be I'd go off and I see I had him by the neck and I want to go often.
So the man came and pulled me off of the that's was the last stand ice. So my mother didn't take us to the funeral because she my father she has come a stingy she was me. She did not want to just to me are to be valuable for us. So my mother said it was best to bring it here to Pittsburgh or some other place try to get away from me and was living up there. So she whirled to my ears. I see. He got everything so that we can move up here and then we get on the bus and he brought me here from Jackie. I didn't get too many chances to just see Jackie because I was living with her cousin. He was living there for defamation or something. It's one of the kids over the men and one daughter which I see. What was the worst freight that you ever.
You mean frighten or something. Yeah. Nothing too much. Did you ever get the feeling that there was somebody in the house that shouldn't be there. Oh yeah lots of times they go away. I close the worst lock them I try to do everything against them. Then I turn on the television channel and try to sit back. I keep looking out the window waiting for them to come home. Scared to leave the room. You think your fears were brought on by watching television and the scarier shows I don't write them too much. I like them but I don't get a chance to watch him too much because I don't get a chance to stay up and see your friend in the dark. My bedroom is just pitch dark. See my mother my stepfather trepanned kill my mother. One day so I gave my little brother ice cream and everything. So my little brother is going through my mother
because my stepfather gave it to him so he wouldn't tell. So I went over to my aunt's house until my birthday so my ear told me to go back home because my stepfather had already where and he was on his way back to our house and my mother had to make my brother go away. She went off and then went to the lobby always downtown to try to get some place for me to state the next thing I know they brought me here. So mixed up. They said make love with my you know that's where you know that was the let me see. They sent me home the last day. You were never in any kind of institution orphanage. No sir. Do you feel relatively happy or unhappy or mixed up in this too. So I'm happy so I'm kind of mixed up. Are you happy when you are alone. Yes we are. Unless you're with people who really like you and
show it. That's about all there are many people like that. But there are many. Well maybe if you were nicer with them first it might work the same way as it would with your stepfather maybe they'd be nicer with you. Maybe I tried to be nice to person than he tried to but I didn't mess too long. That's why my worker told me he said tried to be nice. She said I don't but I would try she would try to get me into an orphanage. I see. I'm trying to keep out of trouble. Q I get in there. So if you keep trying to keep out of trouble you stand a better chance of keeping out of it. That I think so too. OK we'll go back now. And now joining from Gadhafi to discuss the features of this child's world is this guest Professor Chester a jersey back of the Sociology Department of Education
University. Here are Father Duffy And Professor Jerzy back again. We have Professor jersey back with us to give some valuable insights into little Clarence a 12 year old white boy who lives in a home. It seems to me where he is neglected and abused the father is explosive. He apparently doesn't like this boy. And he also in the home. I thought we might kick off the discussion today by reference Professor Jerzy like to Jessie Bernard's book social problems at the mid century and she discusses a very interesting. Part there in discussing slums she says a day that there are divergence of a people in the slums one of the trapped the other ones are transients. A third group are terminal and the fourth group are underworld. Now the transit ones are easy to understand these are people for example a young married couple moved to the slum they don't want to be there. It's a temporary expediency. They don't take on any of the characteristics of the people. They don't have their roots there and they
live really psychologically elsewhere. Recreation and otherwise. But the bad section there it seems to me of the underworld section here you find a heavy sprinkling of criminality delinquency divorce suicide abandonment desertion and the least affected are the transients I guess the most affected be the underworld elements then the trapped pretty bad too and the less than the trap would be the terminal. Do you see any of this as pertaining to what this little boy's problem is in addition to this tremendous disorganization family disorganization would you comment on that. Well at one time as you well know the theme of slum and delinquency was a very popular theme it almost appeared as if living in a slum with dirty red brick buildings painted streets garbage cans overturned. Things of that sort caused delinquency. And I think what we saw was a relationship.
Well upon further investigation there no doubt are types of persons who live in slum areas where the slum area is a causative factor for them. As you pointed out but not to everyone because we know that not all children who come from a slum become delinquents on the other hand I think that we can't reject it as a factor that can operate and as you pointed out you get the person this is a person who has to stay there because of their status. Immigrant status or negro status or economic status or class status whatever the factor may be where they have no reference to something outside of the slum. They cannot look forward to a better life as such. Now back reader yes and therefore those kind of people in a sense. Dr.
Bernard refers to them being trapped and they have probably as bad a situation as the youngster who associates with the underworld. And it's so easier to associate with the underworld aunt lives in a slum because that is where the underworld characters often hang out this is where the collection of slips are done and things of that sort. I wonder whether we shouldn't strike another theme here in the remaining time that one of organization. Does it look that this home is pretty well disorganized to you Father is it look as if the individuals do not understand what their roles are there seem to be no rules by which they can live. They they seem to feel no status as such does it appear there's some element of that also operative besides a slum environment. I can see it running all through this particular family. The mother seems to be a terror stricken person and she's afraid of the husband. This is her second husband. The boy is afraid apparently of ham and the one
lessening influence of his in his life is the mother. And yet she says doesn't seem to be able to handle this they have farmed the other children out to the coupler and the orphanage and the other ones are away and they're still a quick three or four left. But it seems to be a house it's marked for explosive explosive anger and I would say violence is going to erupt there. Either the mother will be driven to it in case the father he's already pretty well or driving himself towards an explosion of behavior and the child complains too that the father they get insurance for the first father who died and the second one buys cars with it which again is fairly typical of a certain elements in this slum slum living these high status symbols. Yes they don't seem to have drive for a better life. So it has been No I think that you can overdo status and class as such as Cohen in one of his books tries to show that.
You can have difficulty both with the lower and middle class the lower class people feeling frustration which I think we see in this family but also the middle class person has another kind of frustration especially in the male role call and his book on delinquent gangs claims that the reason why middle class children participate in delinquency is that they have no male role to imitate they often cannot understand what their father does. In a sense where it's much easier for a child of a lower class to understand his father what he what he does it is very difficult very often especially if the child's father is a professional person to really understand what he does so that you get that kind of insight in here. There's class values are operative here that lead and help to lead to disorganization in addition to the fact they live in an area which tends to have greater delinquency either because.
They are trapped more often by police or because it actually produces more it's it's rather difficult to determine and is kind of a case and this little boy too is very pathetic in that he has nothing else to turn to. It's easy enough to work out things when you have a whole series of alternatives. It makes it easier of course to decide if there are few alternatives but this little fella has none and he seems to have given up very early in life. I'd like to thank you again Professor Jersey for being with us and giving these real valuable clues to understanding this big problem as you have many times pointed out if there is no simple solution to these things and there may not be any solution at all to them. Also trying to understand and erect certain difficulties and I think as we went along we get more and more insight into the complexity and the abstruse newness of this particular problem. And as you have pointed out too. We can't look at it simply from a point view of delinquency because there are a variety of other
things involved both in the causation side of it and I'm sure in the curative side if there's going to be a cure. And also in the preventive side I'd like to thank also those at the Juvenile Court Judge Rogers and Mr. me David the chief probation officer and his staff for helping us with this program to make it a reality. You have been listening to exploring the child world a program in which the child speaks from the French a stuffy chairman of the sociology department of Duquesne University has conducted the interview with the child and to find the outlines of this work in the discussion with his guest Professor Chester agers Act also of the Department of Sociology at Duquesne. This has been a production of the radio services of Duquesne University. Technical
Exploring the child's world
The quiet child
Producing Organization
Duquesne University
WDUQ (Radio station : Pittsburgh, Pa.)
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University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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Episode Description
This program focuses on how quiet and introverted children can fall into delinquency.
Series Description
Interviews with delinquent and disturbed young people who are encouraged to discuss their experiences and express feelings. To protect individuals, each program is a re-creation of an actual interview using different names and places.
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Interviewee: Jerzak, Chester A.
Producing Organization: Duquesne University
Producing Organization: WDUQ (Radio station : Pittsburgh, Pa.)
Speaker: Duffy, Francis
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 62-27-12 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:50
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Chicago: “Exploring the child's world; The quiet child,” 1962-08-20, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed February 6, 2023,
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APA: Exploring the child's world; The quiet child. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from