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Voices of Europe produced and recorded by Milton Mayer in cooperation with the University of Chicago under a grant from the Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the National Association of educational broadcasters on this program. Milton Mayer will conduct three interviews on contemporary Italy. The first interview is in Berrigan mo Italy the second in Milan Italy and the third in Italy and now Milton Mayer and his birth place in the city of Ferragamo where the Academy now begin and interviewing a schoolteacher Sinjar M-Audio house on me. Senior Casone who took his doctor's degree in Philosophy at the University of Poppea he just sitting in a public college for technical workers and buried them all he was born in 1922 and 1922 in Italy
was a year to be born in I guess or was not a very good. Yeah I was just in July 3 months before the match Roma from the path of the fasces. My father was a civil MP and viewing the log log and then he became a fan. He walked in when he did that and really why did he become a fascist SR doesn't he. I don't know when because I was too young but my father got destroyed using that of the fasces and he died when I was 7 year old. But your family religious in your testimony. My father was not to cap the leak. My mother I dated you know the minute he said cap that leak and a very developed capitally myself I was a bar and I was baptized and then when I began to oppose
classes I fail it is night for the Catholic Church too. I said Can this be the other then that passes the. And the Catholic Church they are guarding hangs together. Did you become a fascist in yourself and yet they were authored by the law the words of the leaders of this day was a youth organisation movement of their masses about what age did you become a fascist state. I was six years old this time just when I began my elementary school and how did you happen to edit about it. My father got their membership card for me. Why because what's necessary to have the membership kept of the youth organization in order to enter this public school. Did you become more or less of a fascist during your school days. Of course I was a facet that isn't all there but then I saw a
certain balance in my city from that past of the fast just beating on the square. Yeah so you didn't remain a fascist. No I did not remain when I anything they wanted that it did during my first off uni that it did. I joined a gown and the fancy tokenization called the justice and freedom. What was your activity and what was the activity of this organization. We had just the meetings and illegal news that the three putting illegal means that gone our defeat these two can't really they knew that that and that thing on the dark during the night the manifesto and the sheet and if you were caught please and I think beaten and then the war and you were how old they thought I wanted you only that it can be any other. But
was it around the fart deeply I escaped from my city because the masses where looking for me and I was in Milan I compared ground first in M.A. Then I reached the mountains with the math exam. I walked in there the gate got a bandy this time I was no more were convinced the group of justice and freedom. But developing with the companies where you yourself account I was not a communist but this time there was not a question of a membership and I think odd that concede me at the company and I had seen that the thought of them and thought their cargo there we have a developed and eyes and there were good ideas people with whom and how did it happen that you didn't remain in a store attached to the company. You see during the day of that investigation the path is
and came down from the mountain really M.A. and dateable day. The English and Americans had nothing to get him because they saw election took place three days before the end Ivan of English and American. Me in this day in this critique of me Lana was going down to both our good between classes and the and the fasces. There was much killing and who were these from both sides and make me happy. I thought about this experience and and I thought that the fasces. Cuddling against this classism her head took certain side of the path this violence call the field during their home their gun movement had begun to read the combat eight ten young people out of the ferry
and the fasces bikini better off a lot of the Roma now in that gap between you was it. Now they're exporting. They clearly are not our limbs bikini was not clearly and the facet in the book got there by the book. Women are not that been published but got beaten while defending their nonviolent position stated during the fast I like peace book during the fast this summer and this book. It gives me a deep impression. And after I thought about this book and I searched for cat between me and I was in contact with him so I got to nod a few then you're a pacifist. You regard yourself as a pacifist. Yes as a man because that is what you mean by that. I mean they're a man or a
fuel to take them back by doing that. PDA them was also doing that peace and they fuel their military service. They can change the subject. How many of you are there. Do you suppose now all of it all. From my father the Fife until now I think that they have been and I can change the subject 50 altogether. But this seems to me to be somewhat irrelevant to the politics. When you take a position like this don't you put yourself entirely outside of political action. I don't think so. Look for instance at that back to a position of Danny low dollar chip. He had a very good position in that the left everything and he went to see simply to leave the poor people. At that time Beta by
Palermo way I found that a community called Borgo the man got down the 30 year he was there he saw a baby dying of hunger. So he began their home gets tight and he was a keeping the Angus tyke until I think seven or eight days he was ready to die. He said I've been the one to see another baby dying and then the out party got pink day and there was a smile and they thought that poor people and media thought the baby. You see disposition can have can draw attention to them that the quality problems. So now after this action of the legal authority Mimi need to know of a condition that can be both conditions of the people in the city. So nonviolence you think is the effective I think Kanaan balance
can be very effective. Not for having it in me yet. Change over but from longer range I think numb banging can pay politically to thank you senior at us or me. Thank you to you. A communist in Italy and there are a lot of them is not a hard man to find. You know I heard you interview Sinjar Silvio lay on Artie. The chief of the economic commission of the central trade union office in Milan. I went to a large office building just as one would to interview. I suppose we would say a respectable businessman in America Sinjar LEONARDI is a communist and the trade
union which represents the Confederation of Italian labor is a union which is either dominated by our operates very closely with the Communist Party senior land there any how do you happen to be a communist in Italy. I hear and thought you know oh I am a son of a baby and my father was killed. I worked at that in our little buddy and as a patient here in the University of the M.A. I knew the earth and the people there who are uniquely but only during the war on during the liberation war against that. I begin to
work early on in the invasion after the war. I begin to study a gun on me and then I want to get in there. If you say the need for then you need them. I looked at it and calmly and since 1931 you have been associated with the Federation of Labor. Yes. Now this of course is what they call a trade union or rather a federation of the unions and I wonder if you would tell me something about it. Yes you are right that
if we did you know union members and labor of you need that 49 It was the only indication of labor. But the 49 on a blue label and that is really bad because you know that they're thirsting for it then you know it used to be an area where you tell me how the other two federations of labor happened to come into being. I believe that the question can a more difficult moment for that out of Martian blood imagine anything
and your early confederation of labor opposed the Marshall Plan. Yes yes we avoid it. Imagine a blight on what ground on the ground. Well these people are very easy. He's not very simple. But the main lead we've measured Blaine was before that he told me that the Course never ending any action that far out of the beaten. Finally we'll all imagine plan in the bank. Marsha Blaine the Dewey the only nation in the order. But the little boy into the old you know well different opinion because we
will be in the meaning of the nation. Who would it be done immediately and not in four and they live a little faster and more employment and the information in their own government that he got from one of the nine forty five Italian production a novel. Surely surely Santa is not double their name please. But I want to see you. I believe we believe in very clear nine and thin.
You know that is because of inflation. That is what the increase is not as much in purchasing power. Yes but it didn't end there before all that I mean that the great problem of the unemployment we believe in each other and I do you know people believe that if it were to get work we overlay configuration of labor and or they're going to buy it. I believe in that kind of the age of our program. He sees everything in order that even he becomes. He didn't say that there are going to be in the creation of
only of his blood. Nigel Wright of the inhuman and anybody that is standard of living. Look we aim to be the problem. It was a young girl my little boy and a lot but if you know anybody there live then we should do it. Nobody can tell you that the lesser evil in there than we govern there are of the opinion that there could be another person who thought he thought it was a boy I don't want you with or without her doing good and evil. Going
by the middle against this wonderfully ending Lindauer lens window and of what do we learn that the first born of our economic or national net nationalisation all the model but it is too late. The electrical one is in Ukraine and they give me one in the other big monolith and that you may indeed be a in on. Then in that regard to other people and first of all thinking that being played out we cannot wait a long time. We cannot the linen forms because we don't employ them and that in being Italian people need it
in leisure to eat this fast. Surely if you ask me they greeted him at the end on that land reform initial or indeed but in the immediately before we do not that does not solve this equation. The alien in any kind of problem American people wounded try to understand that we are trying to be inefficient and then in Beijing he thought a moment that we are not the kind to do run the one companies and they're here for the fun of the thing or our vision is quite different in there. What he leads on is that I don't view our first fight easily. Again one of Billy Payne that I got there
for free at a fight. You know I believe that he's on the scene you know on the museum and understanding it on the radio and then the first thing to do but I don't understand people and the government he's there as a nation I think they need every little thing but understanding. I mean even if you think you saying you're like me I have not come to him to talk to our Brianna about business machine his plants. Very famous in Italy for their design as he puts it for men. First machines afterward are matched by the most progressive industrial organizations in America. His workers are foreign only very highly paid
highly insured and otherwise provided with social welfare and the atmosphere in which they work is one of absolute formality. And I have come to leave right now to talk to this short rotund shy and patient man with a head like William Jennings Bryan about the thing a lot of bass. The cultural organization called the money which with Adriano all of that the support and direction began a few years ago with a cultural center in the fray. Today there are 50 organisations not only in towns of the kind of a as a district but everywhere in Italy offering peasants and industrial workers the opportunity of self-education of medical care of Agricultural and technical processes to lighten their lives.
I have seen with your here any and all kind of a history and I know what you are doing beginning to do over Italy. What I want to know from you is Why are you doing it then to make a buck and the second example. That protest against the birds and this is them but also an example of when your sister kind of tree them and wellbeing too all the time and they have their deepest and most natural divisions the old regime marshy and fascism was swept away 10 years ago by the vegetarians and today then years after winning like nominal liberties the parties
their members and leaders have not accepted to a very limited extent leave it up to the green divorce that were sent to the condom and that he now the difficult times are to do all of what we expected to be a new meaning in the region. Perish me in your part to need to do good. Well last because our lawmakers size where on the past and their themselves where without unity and courage and there anything that doesn't concern individual in interest is given over to massive passions which are officially and systematically and kharaj millions of Italians with a mature and moral revival. Thought this may be said to be on the wiki from the invaders. Awful signs of a duty it
is confronted by the negative forces whose cancerous structure was obstinate weave and corrupt nature. We now know all too well. Well Senior all of it here. Democracy is paralyzed by the party system and if the citizens are in fact excluded from participation in their own government perhaps the state should be more active and break up this logjam. No this did is not downs. In everything these did as we see with mounting concern reasons for boiling the organizer for which it is time leaders have been tended to turn to the service and progress of the nation. Average theatres lie in the contemplation and it will be a sion of figures and numbers
every day can command forgetting the human being. But the money that the few years of ever then will actually mean in the end to provide the work and who are to give impetus to a new life for a new people. The effort being made by this data along the line are still in botany but they do not take into account man social science and the community is not created and by anything it cannot be. Even the cross of Christ to the red flag of the for a period of evolution. But he that she through the day to day creation of new organizations communities in the factories and individuals. New organizations that are the expression of a deeply fair social Christianity whose practical was are there right from me to wake up and live.
Because otherwise this thing is on its present a car full of political parties becomes the absolute arbiter of the destiny of the individual because of the state or government individual as cogs in a machine. Norma I were poor and we don't belong to this did not come to the human that from these three and recovered us processing and absolute spiritual war. Who does not exist for the men and not the men for this. Italy today a senior already seems to be pretty well split between the conservative Christian Democrats the ruling party on the one hand and the Marxists or communist and communist associated parties on the other. Yes the people have been human creation the moccasin Minos of all and me so hoarse.
Also to the Marxist parties. But look these millions of dollars have been given to Christianity and to socialism not to their particular forms and structures. What this means is clear the Iranian people are both socialist and Christian. They might even be called simply socialist because they're in and the Christian community. The nice days and the problem Maria fear is a movement that aims at unity not a division that aims to call of moderation which is to teach Ange to build. We're not come to the light but rather because our best to protect the weak to come for the cotton to discover vocations. Our community must be real visible tangible. A
community neither too much nor could Moore that it got really defined and with broad powers that in part to Call of Duty. They know this has been something called the national average in CS and respect for human personality for culture and for that the civilization of man is that they need in this finest moment I can see Sinjar love at what the community movement might mean here in Europe. But do you think it would be in any way applicable or even in the United States for example. I've heard of a book on American culture. The crowd here the people of America are lonely there and they need to find their way.
Voices of Europe
Mario Tosoni, Silvio Leonardi, and Adriano Olivetti
Producing Organization
University of Chicago
Contributing Organization
University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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Episode Description
In this program, Milton Mayer speaks to three Italians: a schoolteacher, and two businessman.
Other Description
Interviews with noted Europeans on a variety of subjects, conducted by Milton Mayer, American author and broadcaster, lecturer and professor in the Institute of Social Research at Frankfurt University.
Broadcast Date
Global Affairs
Fascism--Italy--20th century.
Media type
Embed Code
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Interviewee: Leonardi, Silvio
Interviewee: Tosoni, Mario
Interviewee: Olivetti, Adriano
Interviewer: Mayer, Milton, 1908-1986
Producing Organization: University of Chicago
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 57-7-19 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:41
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Chicago: “Voices of Europe; Mario Tosoni, Silvio Leonardi, and Adriano Olivetti,” 1957-01-01, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed August 20, 2022,
MLA: “Voices of Europe; Mario Tosoni, Silvio Leonardi, and Adriano Olivetti.” 1957-01-01. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. August 20, 2022. <>.
APA: Voices of Europe; Mario Tosoni, Silvio Leonardi, and Adriano Olivetti. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from