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What is your policy on cell does not fall out or blast shelters. Fallout shelters we. Announce that policy a few months ago and which we said that the single best action for the protection of the greatest number of people is fallout shelters and that's been borne out not only by tests but Nevada tests and the examination of results of these attacks that we made during World War 2. But also based upon science and research and we find for instance the National Academy of Science as underwritten that the greatest protection to be given people from effects of nuclear weapons is fallout shelter. The National Association of educational broadcasters presents prepare for survival. A radio sounding board for facts and opinions on civil defense.
We fought World War Two but the policy of the Federal Office of Civil and events mobilization in stressing fallout shelters rather than bomb blast shelters was stated by its director Governor Leo Eyharts. The participants on this program will discuss relative advantages of fallout shelters that is shelters designed primarily to reduce the effects of radioactivity and blast shelters or structures designed to withstand the atmospheric pressures and ground tremors created by nuclear explosives. The participants were recorded separately in their respective offices and have consented to the editing of their remarks which are presented here in the original subject context. Major Peter Hoffman is the former regular inspector or Director of all military constructions for the German Army and Air Force during World War
2. He came to this country in 1951 to show civil defense officials his new plans for evacuation and fallout and blast shelters. Mr. Hoffman holds degrees in both architecture and engineering. Before World War 2 Mr. Hoffman worked on the construction planning for air raid shelters fortifications and underground storage centers in 1041 he was made formation director of the German air force and entrusted with secret commander's work on anti aircraft systems and the further planning and construction of shelters and underground military hospitals. Because Mr Hoffman's experience qualifies his as someone capable of arguing against present civil defense shelter plans and policies he's been offered this opportunity to state his position. It is very difficult to explain the civil defense matter in a few minutes which actually takes hours. But I would try my best.
Do it yourself home family fallout shelters are the model Toms in every city. It is a crime when Mr.. City Administrator in Washington dares the people of life say it is maybe Day enemy will miss the target and the people will survive in their flimsy sour shadows. People can survive in a city only in a shelter. Two hundred fifty two or three hundred feet underground and must live in such a shelter in a whole year. Naturally these Osho must be the same thing as underground cities. They have to have hospitals and supplies of water and food stores there. Of course power and fuel is necessary to after coming out of the shelters. Where would people go they would need housing materials to be stored away which
could be quickly constructed after the war. But there won't be enough time to reach the shelter for millions of people. People in a city can survive only through whenever creation tunnel system underneath the city. I personally am against any felt shelter program in a would be target city. We shall not forget that besides a missile Hydergine at the back there would be conventional weapons to deal with which means force for gas. But Area and small and large conventional bombs. Four of these per Brose underground shelters with all the facilities should be built in the suburbs 20 miles away from the target city. Nobody can count on a follower chant that only people themselves can to build a safe enough
shelter for the cost of two hundred to one thousand dollars. And again those suburban shelters should only be reached where shelter tunnel evacuation system which I am willing to propose again when action would be taken immediately. All of these is not impossible on my own time. I have made many hundreds of architectural drawings which goes to meet thousands of dollars of my own money to be sure the civil defense shelters would be expensive. But certainly they are very logical and possible. American civil defense officials from the former civil defense director while Peter isn't the true governor are her dog and general Dorothy of Detroit. Want to ignore my plans in spite of the approval which the United
States Army Corps of Engineers has given to them. But the civil defense showed that engineers are in myopia and too dumb to understand my plans. Nine years ago when I first brought my plans to the intention of civil defense or to do this in Washington I was told they were impracticable because they would take ten years to build. If we had started then they would be almost finished now. When we need them soon. Governor Hoyer is questioned by our producer about policy matters relating to Mr. Hoffman. Now specifically this Mr. Hoffman now he has submitted his plans a couple of years ago to Mr. Benjamin Taylor. Yes. Why were his plans not why were they returned. Why were they not employed. I understand there's there were thoroughly evaluated and they were considered when we developed this program Oh I don't want to say that we never consider them. We do
I want to point out to you again that this matter of getting into shelter is most important and it's the time factor gets down to 15 minutes. You can say that very few people could ever have access to a deep underground shelter. We haven't written them off but we do say that individual citizens they devote. Out of a hundred sixty eight hour week I devote 40 hours most of them or a little more to working away from the home. Most of the balance of the time is spent in the neighborhood of the home or in the home. Therefore the home is most accessible. You should have the capability of protecting yourself within your home and that's an adopted principle not only by us but also by all of our allies. Hoffman would make shelters functional functional city underground by this I assume it's an operation the entire city would operate underground. What does. Why not build
those that type of shelter now. Well of course the that's a matter for us to evaluate we did. I don't think you can have people live forever underground and let's be practical about this. And yet you can accomplish the same objective you get this the same objective piece to trap door. If people have a capability of protecting themselves within their homes or within their local communities. Do you know specifically what then was wrong with Hoffman's older plans. I didn't say anything was wrong with them. I didn't say I told you that. The time factor the fact that most of your time is at home where some matters that had to be considered and for the overall protection of people and for the couple is one of the objectives of peace. You tried to walk fallout shelter would accomplish the same thing. Have you seen his latest shelter plans. He keeps I understand he keeps revising them.
Yes and we keep abreast of them. When senior defense or Tory it is say my proposed program is too expensive by the way nobody say my last program. I have to say CD is a part of military defense and when Congress can afford three hundred fifty six billion dollars for military defense there should be 30 percent available for civil defense. When small countries there are poor in comparison with America can't afford to protect their people. America who gives money away to foreign nations should not hesitate a second to protect their own people. We don't proper protection. America cannot afford to measure himself with any enemy. When some persons ask why I am interested in saving American lifes here is my answer. Who are you
Oprah leaves or dies with America. What about shelters in target area is it possible to build blast shelters in a target area. Its possible but to protect you from the immediate affects of these nuclear weapons such as why asked and the initial radiation youd have to go so far down under and youd have to spend so much money to accomplish it that you could not get what I consider sufficient protection for people for a satisfactory price and secondly you would not have adequate time to get into it. The thing I like about a fallout shelter is you don't have to get into them you see before the attack. It's better that you do but certainly get into him after that time. Well then does the follow childer policy though in effect mean that blast areas and the major target areas are
the people in these areas are written off. Almost certainly not. And I gave you information with reference to that the matter of warning time. The matter of moving people out if there is adequate time to get them to their homes. Also you have to give some consideration of the fact that there is a degree of there and also many of these cities might not become targets that we project might be a target. We write off no citizen everyone. I don't care what his way of life is. He's important. No it is not feasible to go for a complete blast so-called blast protection. We must accept the reality is of a ground explosion of a hydrogen bomb. We have tests made in the past on this and we know that for instance a million ton
that's a million ton equivalent of TNT hydrogen bomb would dig a hole possibly three quarters to a mile across and a hundred sixty five feet deep. REPRESENTATIVE JEFF Hollyfield of California has conducted four years of congressional hearings on nuclear warfare and civil defense. He's regarded as one of the most informed people on civil defense in the country. Well it's obvious that you cannot put a national system of shelters and that would protect the people in the immediate zero point of the bomb contact. It is beyond the perimeters of the crater which is caused by the bomb explosion that you start saving people. And when you compare the area which even 300 of these bombs would. Create arise if you want to call in a word with the total area of residential occupancy of the people of the nation where you can
see that only a very small percentage of the people would be killed by the blast and the crater digging of the bomb. The majority of the people would be killed in the downwind radiation. The big explosion in the Pacific contaminated for instance 7000 square miles downwind from the point of actual explosion of the bomb. So where you had a one square mile affected by the actual explosion you had 7000 square miles affected by a lethal radioactivity downwind from the point of explosion. And it's this radiation and to some extent the thermal and to some extent the blast because if a person is in an underground shelter. How to mouse from point zero of the impact. In my opinion he would be safe if he was on the ground and on the surface of the ground as far away as 10 miles from a 10 megaton explosion.
He would be killed by the blast and by the fire effects. So you start saving people you might say from a mile and a half or two miles from the point zero impact of the bomb. Commenting on local civil defense shelter policies are three representatives civil defense directors Mr Jack Lowe for Portland Oregon General Condon for New York City and general Doherty for Detroit has no blast shelters principally because the people of Portland are not prepared to accept the need for blast shelters to the extent of taxing themselves in the amounts required to construct them. Blast shelters are very expensive. The program for Portland alone is estimated in excess of 100 million dollars. Obviously a blast shelter program must be a national program because it must have federal financial assistance and also a federal priority established
so that the necessary concrete and steel can be diverted from the federal highway program and normal construction requirements. Personally I feel black shelters are essential if we are to be realistic about survival planning. If there is a need for fallout shelters outside of target areas which is now being pushed as a basic federal program there certainly is a need for blast shelters within the target areas. The people of Portland will take cover in the best shelter available in such an event. Casualties would probably exceed 90 percent of the population. Because of this probable high casualty rate which can be reduced only by construction of blast shelters we are considering changing our policy to evacuation upon an alert with no warning on the promise that while bases of retaliation
and industrial and political targets more important than Portland are being hit. The population of Portland might as well be evacuating. Thus we feel Portland could well have several hours for evacuation. Even in the event of attack upon this country with no warning. I feel it must be recognized that without glass shelters there will be few survivors among those remaining in a city subjected to nuclear attack. What I would be the cost of a blast shelter program for New York City. Well the figure that's been most discussed because it's a result of a study by a very reputable outstanding engineering firm indicates a cost of about six hundred forty eight dollars per person and that of course take a good many years to build a sheltering city.
Would you try. Or are you trying to work toward a blast shelter program. Well that is not it a direct responsibility of the Office of Civil Defense here and say we consider to be a federal ass state responsibility if federal state governments are the federal government in itself establishes a black shelter program. Why then cite the New York City would give due very serious consideration to being part of anything that would save the lives of people in the city. In this matter of shelters it is probably not feasible to construct blast shelters for all of the people because we could spend ourselves into ruin and such a program and it is not reasonable to expect citizens to build their own blast shelters. But then while blast is the primary hazard from nuclear weapons it is not the factor that will kill the
most people fall out will cause the largest number of casualties. Protection against fallout is merely a matter of getting enough solid material between the person and the radioactive material compared with protection against blast. This is relatively inexpensive. This matter of blast shelters vs falloff shelters has been studied extensively by the federal government. The conclusion is that a fallout shelter program is the more practical. Accordingly the federal program which has been adopted in Detroit is to promote the family fallout shelter for homes and to encourage the construction of fallout shelters in public and private buildings. We think this is a very worthwhile program. The fallout shelter is not expensive and it will afford people excellent protection. The fallout shelter program is making fair progress in the trade area.
But a great deal remains to be done. Story as plain as can be. Story of shelter for me and for you. But it's dark as a dungeon due to the fallout from the bomb blast. Get you the sun can shine through a live lock the gophers and the prairie dogs do. But this is the future I planned on for you. This dog gets a dungeon to do but it's down in that set will sit out from World War 3.
The decision to build a bomb blast in Fallout shelters it must be remembered does not rest with Civil Defense personnel but with the people who elect the governmental administrators and pay the tax. In contrast to this provincial discussion of civil defense are the views of Lord Bertrand Russell speaking from his residence in North Wales England. Lord Russell was asked to discuss civil defense. I had considered in this broadcast we suggested measures by which it is pretended but the civilian population could be seized from death in the event of a nuclear war. The Russian region and American governments being determined to pursue policies likely to resign sooner or later in a new war. Having been to each team's which the Corps defeats
the purpose of these schemes is to persuade the populations of their several countries the dead government. I'm not condemning them all today but I prepared to show mercy to a certain percentage in pursuit of the AIM they educate against measures which those who invent them must know who to be. In America not shared as are advised to be in all of our cities. When the read is complete each hoped is that there would be 25 minutes warning of a nuclear day when the twenty five meet warning to the populations of older cities to rush into the shelters and stay there and do if ever that it is safe to come out. I find it quite impossible to believe that those who devise defend
any value TV can think that it can serve any useful purpose. It is considered a stage by stage. What would be likely to happen. Imagine a population of say New York faced with the press big to almost certain death if they remained on the surface for another twenty five meanings. A new feature Lee advised to get into the shed as during these very short time. Everybody news the sort of thing that happens when a fire in a theater causes a stampede. If you compare the number of people in the theater with the number of people in New York you meet it's 7 of the 25 minute stampede which the authorities recommend. It must be obvious the Davidian fortune of those seeking the shelter would be trampled to death
and that the only people who would reach the shelters alive would be made muscularly vigorous and moderately Ruthie's. That's an optimistic estimate. One might hope that 1 percent of the population of New York would reach the shelters and damage. How long would they have to stay there. The authorities speak as if a day or two would be long enough. But they must knew that anything for loud and read us active Soyou would make a very much longer stay necessary. Taking the most cheerful of you that is a dollar realistic Let us assume that they are lit out up to six months because the food in the shitter is by that time exhausted. What will they be able to do when the edge over food and water will be radioactive. The air they breathe will still be full of
strontium 90. Most would soon die of you if you even more painfully. We today surely can see the same sort of thing will be happening to the populations of all of our cities. The rural population boom certes of not being provided. We already did except for Madiba to be naughty. It must be remembered that route and rate of ways will have ceased to be usable. The most hospitals medical mean and nurses would have been exterminated and the dying population will in most cases have to be left without assistance. There is a tendency on the part of the authorities to media manage the dangers due to read you activity and its products. To this there are some honorable but little advertised exceptions. For instance how
the British atomic station has announced that even that went from 1958 in 1989. The amount of strontium 90 in the boons of British children increased by 60 percent. Strontium 90 does not exist in nature and is entirely due to massive nuclear explosions. Since Britain is far removed from any of the dished explosions of recent years it is not likely that the increase of strontium 90 in British Boone's is dated the netting bones in a sphere. This makes it highly probable that throughout the world those who had not skidded or not killed quickly in a nuclear war will die slowly and very painfully or bone cancer. Seven American or three each realizing the futility of shared are
educating the American cities and the distribution of the population through have to know the least populous regions. I can't help but think that you've said you've made up for it the majority of Americans might think it better not to have a war. Like on Iran do you know why you're going around in a way gone around on that. Cinnamon says lower lot I've been up for a log low and I've been a prey and has lowered a lot I mean a prey on or on but the lot says and I and you pray do like Lord says and you pray do not says in and you pray you pray do told me what you gonna do Olsen and why you gonna run to
Prepare for survival
Blast shelter policies
Producing Organization
WDET (Radio station : Detroit, Mich.)
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University of Maryland (College Park, Maryland)
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This program focuses on the differences between fallout shelters and blast shelters.
A radio sounding board for facts and opinions on civil defense.
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Announcer: Logan, Dan
Director: Murdoch, Alan
Guest: Holifield, Chet, 1903-1995
Guest: Hoegh, Leo A. (Leo Arthur), 1908-
Guest: Russell, Bertrand, 1872-1970
Guest: Hoffmann, Peter
Performer: Rowena
Producer: Schick, Richard
Producing Organization: WDET (Radio station : Detroit, Mich.)
Writer: Schick, Richard
AAPB Contributor Holdings
University of Maryland
Identifier: 60-52-9 (National Association of Educational Broadcasters)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:29:13
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Chicago: “Prepare for survival; Blast shelter policies,” 1960-11-09, University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed June 22, 2021,
MLA: “Prepare for survival; Blast shelter policies.” 1960-11-09. University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. June 22, 2021. <>.
APA: Prepare for survival; Blast shelter policies. Boston, MA: University of Maryland, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from